1 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: What's going on with contouring? Like, what is actually going 2 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: on with contouring? I know that you take a blush 3 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: brush and you go in like a figure eight motion 4 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: on your face because you used to get under the 5 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: cheekbones and it's darker, it kind of hides it. So 6 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: it means that the cheatbone above it will come out. 7 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: If you have a pronounced jaw like me, you'll do 8 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: it there because it means it's gonna make it go 9 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: away a little more. Um, it'll sculpt your nose and 10 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: all this stuff. But like this thing, so I remember 11 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: several years back when someone started putting dark makeup on 12 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: my face and then smudging it in. I was like, 13 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: what are you doing? It's contouring, but it was just 14 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: like contouring light compared to now now everybody's drawing on 15 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: their face with crayons like they're a clown. Like our 16 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: face is so bad we need to like fully sculpt 17 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: and give ourselves plastic surgery on the daily. Like what's 18 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: what's wrong? Is something? I feel like I'm I'm doing 19 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: dial up internet because I just take a brush and 20 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: go around owned and I even have like a more 21 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: specific brush, so I'll do the bronze are like under 22 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: my cheekbone, just two because it looks like this is 23 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: what the kids are doing. But literally, if you look, 24 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: people are plastering their face. It's like brown makeup everywhere 25 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: in crayon. And I don't understand it. I don't understand it. 26 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: It's crazy. Does everyone's face need to be so sculpted 27 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: and contoured? And we're looking for like Kendall weird mannequin 28 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: like sculpted edges of a face. Are we supposed to 29 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: look like Grace Slick and David Bowie mixed together? Like, 30 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: I just don't understand why everybody's face has to be 31 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: so contoured? What? What? What? What is it? Okay, just 32 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: have a normal face or we only can have contoured faces. 33 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: I'm just confused. What do you think about contouring? Is 34 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: it that important? Am I missing something so major? I 35 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: need to know what I'm missing. I'm not doing enough contouring. 36 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: I know I can do more. I just bronze and 37 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: I know I can do more contouring. I don't know how. 38 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,559 Speaker 1: And I feel left behind. I feel like I'm still 39 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: on my Space and everybody else is on Instagram and 40 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: and TikTok. I'm still on my Space. I still dial 41 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: up Internet. I have a rotary telephone. People are gonna 42 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: be contouring their vaginas. Suit literally contour your vagina, make 43 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:15,119 Speaker 1: it look more sculpted. Your vagina, you know it's it's 44 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: too it's too plump. It needs to be sculpted more. 45 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: You need more. There's certain areas your vagina that should 46 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: be pronounced and certain they need to be hidden and 47 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: highlighted to while you're at a highlight your vagina certain parts, 48 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: but don't highlight other areas. I'm just not doing it right. 49 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: And I just want to know if I'm alone or 50 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 1: do I need like an anti contouring support group to join. 51 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: My guest today is the founder of Nasty Gal, Sophia Amarusso. 52 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: She went from working its subway at record shops even 53 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: as a security guard, and built her business from the 54 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: ground up. She started Nasty Gal as an Ebays shop, 55 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: previously known as Nasty Gal Vintage. As the social media 56 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: presence of the shop increased, the brand grew rapidly into 57 00:02:55,400 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: the fashion giant we know today. Okay, so you started 58 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: your business, um, Nasty Gale Vintage as what and on 59 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: you were selling online? What type of clothes was eBay? 60 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: I was selling? Vintage clothes on eBay okay, And how 61 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: did it grow to be so huge? How big did 62 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: it actually grow to? Yeah, I grewed over a hundred 63 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: million dollars in revenue UM ten years um. And yeah, 64 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: I started it when I was twenty two, and I 65 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: don't have any business education. I had never worked in 66 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: an office. I had never had a boss. The only 67 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: office I've ever worked in my name has been on 68 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: the lease on. I didn't have startup capital, it wasn't 69 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: even a business. It was like I didn't want to 70 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: work for other people. So I thought I could flip 71 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: vintage on eBay, and I did, and I got really 72 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: good at it, and then eventually launched my own website, 73 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: um nasty Gale vintage dot com and started introducing new stuff. 74 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: So I was going to trade shows and curating other 75 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: people's products, and people like loved my curation, they loved 76 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: the styling. You know, Nasty Gal had a very unique 77 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: brand voice and the creative at the time was unique. 78 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: And you know this was in two thousand, I mean 79 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: it started in two thousand and seven, and so I 80 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: bootstrapped it with like my eight seven Volvo, Like I 81 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,359 Speaker 1: paid five hundred dollars a month rent. I didn't like 82 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: have loans or no one would have given me alone. Um, 83 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: and I bootstrapped it from zero seventy five grand my 84 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: first year to fifty one point one six and a 85 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,799 Speaker 1: half and then twelve and I owned a hundred percent 86 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: of it, and then investors came in. So that's why 87 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: I relate to that, because I had a business called 88 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: Princess pesh Mi Ina in l A. And when you 89 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: just said it wasn't a business, there were no words 90 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 1: like entre a nerd or mogul. You were just selling 91 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: clothing and making money pivoting. Yeah. No, I didn't know 92 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: what any of that was, right, Um, but I'm so 93 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: the first Now it makes a little more sense that 94 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 1: you're saying the first year was seventy and then growing, 95 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: because I was wondering, if you're doing those numbers, how 96 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: were you literally doing it, meaning literally the boxes the clothing, 97 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: Because people listening here want to start their own business, 98 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: and you know, they might be great at baking cookies 99 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: or making a salad dressing or have a good tech idea, 100 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: but to pick to literally picture it, I'm trying to 101 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: envision what was going on. You have evolvo. So how 102 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: are you shipping things? It was before social media? How 103 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: were you marketing? Like, what were you doing as a 104 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: as a new business owner that didn't even know you 105 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: were a business owner. You're just making money? Um? How 106 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: did I figure that out? I mean I did it 107 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: all in the beginning. I like every eBay seller, you know, 108 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: an eBay and now Shopify and square space in these 109 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: et sea in these different platforms give you the framework 110 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: that you need to understand inventory and shipping and weighing 111 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: and you know, managing customers and like uploading your photos 112 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,919 Speaker 1: and stuff that when you had a website, when you 113 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: had to build an e commerce website and two thousand 114 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: seven two thou eight, you were literally like skinning a site. 115 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: You had a hire designer, you designed like a Photoshop 116 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: file and like sliced it up and had somebody like 117 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: literally engineered the entire thing. It was so much work. Um, 118 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: but eb gave me like the framework of like what 119 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: I needed to know to serve my customers, to keep 120 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: them loyal, to market to them. Um, you know, I 121 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: was able to develop my brand voice there. In terms 122 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: of logistics, it's like every eBay seller has like a 123 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 1: printer or a labeled printer, and you know, you hook 124 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: it up. Now you have ship station. I think I 125 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: was using USPS directly. You slap a label in a package, 126 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: you take it to the post office. And then when 127 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: there's too much, you know, when there was too much 128 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: for me to ship, or when there was too much 129 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: for me to do because the business was exploding, I 130 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: first hired someone who did the things that I didn't 131 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: absolutely need to do, like what is the best and 132 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: highest purpose I can serve in my business? And that 133 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: was the creative piece, the marketing piece, you know, the copyrighting, 134 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: but not the product descriptions. I couldn't do every one 135 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: of those. I didn't need to ship stuff. I was 136 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: still doing all the photography, all the buying. Um, someone 137 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: else steamed the clothes. Interesting, Okay, so you realized that 138 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: early though, I mean, did someone mentor you and tell 139 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: you that, or you just instinctively said toody to yourself, 140 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: this is where I'm best used, and those are the 141 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: weeds you needed somebody else. I mean, even I've had 142 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: Cheryl Sandberg on here, and she's the number two to 143 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg. She said to him, I want to do 144 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: everything that you don't want to do. Mm hmm. Yeah. 145 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: Eventually I had a CEO, UM, and I still had 146 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: to do I think, no matter what, you have to 147 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: do things that you don't want to do. It doesn't 148 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: matter who you hire or who you you know, who 149 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: you have under you, how amazing they are, how much 150 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: you try to put yourself in a you know, in 151 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: an elevated position to just deal with the things that 152 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: you like. It's a job, even if you're working for yourself, 153 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: even if you have support, it still ends up being 154 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: a job. Um. And so yeah, from there it was like, Okay, 155 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: I hired a dedicated shipping person, and I hire a 156 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: dedicated you know, customer service person and a dedicated copywriter 157 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: and someone to process returns. And it was like you know, 158 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: ocean violation kind of nightmare. It was just like not warehouse. 159 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: It was first, you know, a thousand square foot little 160 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,719 Speaker 1: studio in like a old shipping yard in beneath the 161 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: California and then it became a seven thousand square foot 162 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: warehouse in Emeryville. Actually it became a storefront in Berkeley, 163 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: and then we outgrew that and then it became a 164 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: warehouse in Emeryville. And we were doing all of our 165 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: photography in house. Everything in house. You know, today you 166 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: have these third party sticks companies that will house your 167 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: inventory for you, they'll ship it for you, they'll process 168 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: returns for you, you know, manage all of your inventory. 169 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: And that stuff wasn't as plug and play as it 170 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: is today. And so we did everything in the house, 171 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: which in retrospect, I really wish we hadn't or you know, 172 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: had the opportunity to, you know, kind of piecemeal out 173 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: things that weren't essential to our business, um like logistics. 174 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: You know, well, that's an interesting thing for business owners 175 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: because many and it's about your personal bandwidth and business 176 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: personality type. Because for me, I like to be a 177 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: general contractor. I'm not interested in things being in the house. 178 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: I'm not interested in and it can be less expensive 179 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: to do that, but I don't want that headache. And 180 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: um I don't think a lot of people even know 181 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: that a lot of these resources exist that you can 182 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: sub out a lot of things and then really focus 183 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: on what you need to be focusing on. So you 184 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: were kind of doing more than you needed to do, 185 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: either because it didn't exist or you didn't really know 186 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: how to connect those dots, right, I didn't really know 187 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: what that meant, you know, And I think controlling the show, 188 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: Like I just, I did not have manage people to 189 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: begin with, but it just felt more fluid to have 190 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: somebody there like all the time, who was an employee, 191 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: who is dedicated to that business and not juggling different 192 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: you know, projects. And today with business Class, it's a 193 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: sizable business, but I don't. I have one employee and 194 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: she's amazing, and everyone else is a contractor. Because I 195 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: can talk about leadership, I can talk about management. I 196 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: know a lot about it. I've worked with incredible leaders. 197 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: I honestly think I'm okay. I'm just okay at it. 198 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: And like I said, I want to I want to 199 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: play to my best and highest um and having conversations 200 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: with someone every six months about growth in the company 201 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: or three months or they join and two months later 202 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: they want a promotion and you lay someone off and 203 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: they sue you, Like I just, I've can't deal with 204 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 1: it anymore. And I did it for fifteen years. And 205 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: you know, I love the team that I work with. 206 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: I consider them my team, but they also get to 207 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: go build their businesses. And now I'm a client my 208 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: first employee business class was a full time employee and 209 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: she left to start her own agency. I'm one of 210 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: her clients, and it's it's excellent. It couldn't be better, right, 211 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: I agree with you. I actually it's very It's interesting 212 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: that you say that, because you can be successful at 213 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: business and really not be good at many areas of business. 214 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: I mean, you have to know what you don't know. 215 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: And I find that the time, suck and drain of 216 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: managing people is not for everyone, and even in a 217 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: way that it could be something so ridiculous, like my 218 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: assistants gonna laugh in front of me because I didn't 219 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 1: know someone that was working for me. Get everyone off 220 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: Veterans Day. Okay, that sounds reasonable, great, it's Veteran's Day. 221 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: Then on that day only banks were closed, like my 222 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: daughter was in school, and all my assistants friends were working, 223 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: and I was like, why is everybody working? And they're like, 224 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: I don't know. We didn't know why you gave us 225 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: all Veterans Day because I didn't know, like an HR 226 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: and what policy is if you're taking off, how much 227 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: notice do you have to give? I'm not I'm a 228 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: free spirit in that way, so some people could be 229 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: bogged down and fail in business because of the weeds 230 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: of those things. That don't mean you're a good or 231 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: bad business person. Honestly, it's really like refreshing to relate 232 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: to somebody on this topic because I have a lot 233 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: of guilt over it, because you know, I didn't build 234 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: a great culture at Nasty Gale, because they didn't build 235 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: an intentional culture, and I didn't know what culture meant. 236 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: When you hire a hundred people in a year, when 237 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: you're just like shooting from the hip like a total, 238 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: you know, accidental entrepreneur, it's a mess. You know, in 239 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: business class, I teach like, you have to think about 240 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: your culture even before you hire your first employee, because 241 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: the way you two work together, it's going to be 242 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: the way that it scales, the way that ten people 243 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: work together. And if that's not intentional and you haven't 244 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: thought about what that looks like, it's a mess. I 245 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: love that you're being transparent about this, by the way, 246 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: because you know, I didn't know the word culture either. 247 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 1: The way I came up, I used to work for 248 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: Linda and Jerry Bruckheimer. As one of the ten people 249 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: I was an assistant for Kathy Hilton. I worked in 250 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: Lauren Michael's office. My culture was the Jeffrey Katzenberg culture, 251 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: which he says, if you don't if you don't want 252 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:24,959 Speaker 1: to work on Sunday, don't if you don't want to 253 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: work on Saturday, don't bother coming in on Sunday. That's 254 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: the quote that got him in trouble because now we 255 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: have places like Google that have work life balance. I 256 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: didn't come up in work life balance. I'm fifty one 257 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: years old. I came up in you fucking work your 258 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: ass off, no one's counting anything, and you kill yourself 259 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: and you are successful. And that's how it is. I 260 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: didn't come up in the time of every single thing. 261 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: I don't relate. I don't relate. I get it now, 262 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: but it's kind of I have to like bolt on 263 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 1: yes and understand like what this generation needs to just 264 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: want to keep their jobs, not even be successful, but 265 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: like not quit. And there's a law of criteria. And 266 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: I used to think, you know, like this is how 267 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 1: I walk like, I walk through the office with purpose. 268 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: I have things to do. Everybody has things to do. 269 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: And the way I used to think was like, wait, 270 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: I'm paying you sometimes more than I'm being paid. Often, 271 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: why aren't you walking as fast as me? Because it's 272 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: not their business and they don't care as much. But 273 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I didn't know that. And that's 274 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: not that doesn't scale, that's not the spirit that inspires people. 275 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: I get it. I get it. I get it. I 276 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: really get it. But it's funny because I recently had 277 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: a conversation. If you check in the way you check 278 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: in your own relationship, like you check in with these, 279 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: these are wants, these are needs, like as as a partner, 280 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: this is what I want, this is what I need. 281 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: You can do that with with staff too, or or 282 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: also be like what paid do you want? Do you 283 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: want to go to distance? Here? It's okay if you 284 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: just want to work and you just want a job, 285 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: because people want a job, and I'll pay you and 286 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: you'll do your job and that's great. Do you want 287 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: to go the distance? Do you want a career and 288 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: not want us to want that? Or maybe they don't 289 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: want to be in this business they want to be 290 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: so I'll have those conversation. Asians and I have changed 291 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: in the sense that work life balance. Not everyone wants 292 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: to be texting twenty four hours a day just because 293 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: I do. I kind of I'm like an elder millennial, 294 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: but I've kind of become a slightly younger millennial and 295 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: the way that I want to live because I have 296 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: burnt out, and like I mentioned, I'm spending a lot 297 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: of time in Kauai, and the way my existing business 298 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: works is that I have sprints in the spring and 299 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: sprints in the fall. We enroll students in business class 300 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: for a period of ten days and we're doing it 301 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: right now, doors clothed. We kick it off. I do 302 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: one zoom call a week, and the content it's relatively 303 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: kind of like self. Let I logged into the community, 304 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: I talked to students, but I'm not teaching this live 305 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: and killing yourself and killing myself. And then I'm like 306 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: almost like months off in between, you know, as someone 307 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: who is saying all of these things about how you 308 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: know I used to I've evolved and kind of burnt 309 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: myself out in the same way like this generation knew 310 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: that Burnett existed and decided not to accept it before 311 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: they burnt out and demanded it. And it's like, I 312 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: guess I've paved the way for other people to see 313 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: that burnout is no fun and show up at two 314 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: years old and say, like, I'm not gonna kill myself 315 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: for you. At the same time, when I think about 316 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: growth in a company, or think about bonuses in terms 317 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: of getting ahead, like you get to keep your job 318 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: for doing your job. If you want to get ahead, 319 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: you do have to do extra. I agree, there's a 320 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: there's a happy medium between burnout and hustle. Yeah, like 321 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: you have to do boring. You have to have ideas. 322 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: You don't just do your job like you bring ideas, 323 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: like you find solutions. You don't come to You don't 324 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: just do your job. So I still am like you know, 325 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: I you know, just just doing a good job doesn't 326 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: meet you a bonus. The company has to make money 327 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: to afford the bonus, you know. So there's stuff like 328 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: that that like might seem a little more old school, 329 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: but like I've just blown so much money trying to 330 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: keep people happy that Yeah, they're are definitely like areas 331 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: where I'm like, it's a business. This is what needs 332 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: to happen. It's not show friends, it's show business. And 333 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:10,959 Speaker 1: you can have that be part of your culture too. 334 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 1: You have to add value. You're not just here to 335 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: be here and to push paper. There has to be 336 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: a value add that's like anything else. It is business. 337 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: So about the Benjamin's, but you don't get to rest, Yeah, exactly, 338 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: So okay, so this is that's a very That's just 339 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: a great different conversation that I haven't had here in 340 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 1: an important one. I think too. And we're different ages. 341 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: But you you burned out way earlier. And I do 342 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: want for myself and for having around me a work 343 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: life balance where I create a fun environment and there's 344 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 1: a lot going on and it's alive. But then let's 345 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: not just be working to work. Let's chill when we 346 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: can chill. So you were killing yourself and you didn't 347 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: know entirely what you were doing, and you were making money, 348 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: and then it sounds like the ship went sideways. It 349 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: sounds like a couple of things happened. The ship went sideways. 350 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: You sold, and based on the numbers that it sounded 351 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 1: like your business was making, you didn't sell for enough 352 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 1: that much money based on what you were making. So 353 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: there was either debt or this sounds like there's something. Eventually, 354 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: there was debt. I mean, it's like I brought in 355 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: grown ups and I was like, you know, you've had 356 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: a career at that point, it was in my twenties. 357 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: You've had a career for twenty five years. I'm twenty five, right, 358 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: You've had a career for as long as I've been alive. 359 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: You're an executive, Like, I didn't really understand management. I 360 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: didn't understand that even C level executives need to be 361 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: held accountable and that just because they say they're going 362 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: to do they say they're going to do something, doesn't 363 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: mean they're going to do it or do it on time. 364 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: Because when I say I'm going to do something, I 365 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: just do it. And I thought that other people held 366 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:42,479 Speaker 1: themselves accountable in that way. And that's not necessarily mean 367 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: taxes or filing Like what do you mean now? I 368 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: mean just like getting things done, like just completing projects, 369 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: just running the show, just implementing an e ERP system 370 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 1: in the warehouse and getting software to talk to like 371 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: other software, like whenever those things are building the app, 372 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 1: getting that out on time. You know, Um, I know 373 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: I was. I don't think I was a leader who 374 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: really lad an executive team to work cohesively. Um I did. 375 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: People were going to get things done, But you weren't 376 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: technically managing it. To you, I thought they were going 377 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: to die business. I thought they diagnosed the business and 378 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:24,360 Speaker 1: go treat it um. And that's not always what happens. 379 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: And um, I thought, you know, I knew what. I 380 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: didn't know enough to be like, I don't really know 381 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: a lot like the you know, I boothsdropped the business. 382 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: I didn't have to understand the financials because it was profitable. 383 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: I understood, I sell something for more than I paid 384 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: for it. I don't. I reinvest some of the money 385 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: in more inventory, not too much, and I don't. I 386 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: just like, keep money in the bank, don't spend all 387 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: the money that's business. To me, I didn't. It becomes 388 00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: so much more complex in reading A P and L 389 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: five six years in for the first time, because I 390 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: didn't really need to. Oh, I get exactly exactly the hockey. 391 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: I learned really quickly, but the learning curve that I 392 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: hit at one point was so steep that I just couldn't. 393 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: It was like this, and I was like this, and 394 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: I'm I learned so quickly, and it was just it 395 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: was so much um kinda um. And so what happened, 396 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,640 Speaker 1: um boots trapped the company. It was on its way 397 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: to twenty eight million, and after twelve million, bootstrapped to 398 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: twelve million pcent of it, investors came in and plowed. 399 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: They said, your company's worth fifty million dollars. That's ten 400 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: times revenue for an apparel business, ten times forward facing revenue. 401 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: That's not normal apparel businesses traded like two times you know, revenue. 402 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 1: So it was a venture investment, and they priced it 403 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,120 Speaker 1: like it was a tech company, and you know, they 404 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: would expect it to eventually become a billion dollar business. Eventually, 405 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: we built it two hundred million dollars in revenue. At 406 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 1: that point, they had invested fifty million dollars. Some of 407 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: that money became mine, most of it went into the business. UM, 408 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,679 Speaker 1: and so I was able to sell my stock some 409 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: of my stock along the way, which in retrospect, had 410 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: I not done that, my life would be very different. 411 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: UM built it to over hundred million in revenue. But 412 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: you know, sat down with these guys again, everybody knew 413 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: more than me, and I don't want to, you know, 414 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: I have plenty of responsibility here, but we we're doing 415 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: eight million. And then they came in and we said, okay, well, 416 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 1: based on the growth next year, we're going to do 417 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 1: a hundred and eight million, and we just round we 418 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: literally rounded up our projections by a hundred million dollars, 419 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 1: like on the dollar, which is just so random, and 420 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: how do you like, where are we getting these numbers? 421 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: We hired a hundred people, um and and it got 422 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: very expensive. We rented, uh, we leased, you know, had 423 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: a ten year lease on a I don't know what 424 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: it sounds like a ship show hundred people and said 425 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: million dollars based on twenty eight million dollars. It's insanity. 426 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: It was insanity, UM. But it was hard for me 427 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: to raise money after that because they had overpriced the business. 428 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,479 Speaker 1: So a typical like private equity guy could come in 429 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: and maybe he would have valued the company at two 430 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: hundred millions, but because they had paid three fifty million dollars, 431 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: they didn't want to take delution or you know, in 432 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: basic terms, they didn't want their stock to be worth 433 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:46,239 Speaker 1: less or to drop. So I was kind of like 434 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,719 Speaker 1: blocked from taking more investment that would have like funded 435 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: the business to keep going or find its way to 436 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: an acquisition. At the end, we had we had ventured 437 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: at UM. We sales had kind of plateaued. You know, 438 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: we had built a company to over a hundred million 439 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: dollars UM, and there were opportunities to sell. There was 440 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: an opportunity to sell in like ah years before everything 441 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: ended for over four hundred million dollars there and I 442 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: owned of the business. And there was a piece of paper, Like, 443 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: there was a piece of paper. Here's our intent. It 444 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: was out it was an outfort of clothing for urban people. Um. 445 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: And that was there, and my investors said, and I'd 446 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 1: spent a ton of time with them, I had flown 447 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: to Philly, and my investors had asked for more and 448 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: the deal went away. Um. So there's just like it 449 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: was just like it was the highest highs and the 450 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: lowest lows and the most fun and like so much 451 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: drinking and so much travel and like you know, it 452 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: was it was like the best experience of my life. Um. 453 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: And eventually, you know, hail Mary after Hail Mary, opportunity 454 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: to sell you know, cock blocking of investments, uh from 455 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: like you know, potential future investors, lots of them, you know, 456 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: building a city culture you know, um, layoffs. People hating that, 457 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: like obviously, you know, it's like it became it just 458 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: became unwieldy, and by you know, we had a We 459 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 1: had an opportunity to either reorganize the business you know 460 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 1: in chapter eleven and start again, and everybody's stock goes 461 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: to zero. We refinance it. It is a business. It 462 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: was a business with like a lot of revenue, but 463 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: it was a business that was you know, bleeding cash 464 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: and and had plat the revenue had plateaued. But that's 465 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: very interesting for people listening, because you can have a 466 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: successful business that can fail. Like you had good products, 467 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: you were selling good products, you had money coming in, 468 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: but you you really we're swallowing and drowning and other stuff, 469 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: and that can happen to people. I mean, the last 470 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: year and a half, I was a little checked out. 471 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: I had removed myself as the CEO. I didn't like 472 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: that job. I wanted to work more on the creative 473 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: parts of the business, so I brought in someone to 474 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: be the CEO for the last year and a half. 475 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: I don't know how different things would have gone had 476 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: I not done that, but I did do that, and 477 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: then at the end, it was, um, you know again, 478 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: hail Mary after hail Mary. It's hard to summarize exactly 479 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: what happened, Like I don't you know. I've talked to 480 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: former employees and they're like, I think it was that 481 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,479 Speaker 1: person who did it or you know, and I have 482 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: like plenty of responsibility in it. UM. But we sold 483 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: the company for twenty million dollars UM, which is which 484 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 1: it could have written it to the zero. That sounds 485 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: sold a company for twenty million dollars, but everybody's stock 486 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 1: went to zero. Like we sold it for twenty million, 487 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: but it was in bank ckruptcy, so everybody was wiped out, 488 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 1: and that twenty million dollars went to pay pay down 489 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: the deaths that we had UM and we sold it 490 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: to a company called Boo Hoo, which is like a 491 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: fast fashion retailer out of Manchester UM and they've kind 492 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: of I mean, the clothes are super cheap, and but 493 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 1: I feel like they've done a decent job of maintaining 494 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: the spirit of the brand and it lives on and 495 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,919 Speaker 1: like I had a great run. You know, when you 496 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: start a business and you have investors, you can't quit 497 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: and you can't really be fired unless you do something 498 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 1: they don't they want you to be there. Right as 499 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: a founder, I kind of didn't want to be there 500 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: and I think, of course that's reflected and probably how 501 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: things wound up, um, but I have to say like, 502 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: and it's sucked up. Like, but with everything that I 503 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: went through, you know, exiting the business was a little 504 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 1: bit of a relief. And you know, I don't want 505 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: to say that. I don't want former Poise to hear that, 506 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: but it's the truth. No, you can be on a 507 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: tread I have. I have spent a lot of time 508 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: streamlining things that I do because you could literally get 509 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 1: so exhausted and please people listening who have businesses, and 510 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: you may not understand every detail of these stories, but like, 511 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: you can get to the point where you just don't 512 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 1: want to do anything anymore. You literally want off the ride. 513 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 1: You're not making rational decisions. There's real money coming in, 514 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: but you want off the ride and you just want 515 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 1: to do one off things that you make money on, 516 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: get the money, and that's it. You don't want to 517 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: be in the com web under to under toe. Yeah, 518 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: if you start a business and you think you're going 519 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 1: to work for yourself, but you can't, you kind of 520 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 1: can't quit, And if you work for someone else, you 521 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: can quit. If you do a project, you write a book, right, 522 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: you write a TV show, you um, consult whatever you know, 523 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 1: you're doing a parents you get paid to doing apparance, 524 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: You get your money and whatever this stuff is like 525 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: and busting our asses and you know, building businesses is 526 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: it gave us the opportunity to be on this podcast 527 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: and write books, and that built our credibility. So I 528 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: don't want to dissuade anybody from doing that. But you 529 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 1: have to understand that you can't quit, like when you 530 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 1: have a job. You know, anytime you start something, if 531 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 1: it works, you're you're like in it and you can 532 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: you can shut it down. But often if it's working, 533 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:27,640 Speaker 1: the opportunity cost of shutting it down, um or even 534 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: selling it then you work for someone else in your 535 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: life is a nightmare. Like even selling your company sounds 536 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: like amazing, but then you have like golden handcuffs and 537 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: then you you hold into them and it's it's it's another, 538 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: it's another. Nothing are easy, None of it's easy. None 539 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: of it's shackled to. You have another your shackle to 540 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: somebody else. I would say I wrote a book called 541 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: I Stuck a Relationships, so you don't have to because 542 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: I had learned so much from failures, and I feel like, 543 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: you know, you have learned way more and are teaching 544 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: people about failures that you've experienced. I mean, even this 545 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: conversation alone is not about all the great smart things 546 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: you've done and all the ways you've handled yourselves with 547 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: handled yourself with perfection. It's it's it's it's undeniable. You 548 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: had a great idea, you were good at executing it, 549 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: you were creative, you were ahead of your time. You're 550 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,479 Speaker 1: good at marketing and creating a brand. But you know, 551 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: you made a hell of a lot of mistakes to 552 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: which I totally relate to. I've couldn't write a book 553 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: called like cave or something. Yeah, you know, I mean 554 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: there's a thousand metaphors between like pigs get fat and 555 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: hogs get slaughtered and all that we could bring up 556 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: that went on in your experience. So the what's the 557 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: whole bankruptcy thing? That was something that I don't know 558 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: what what stage that happened, but what what did that mean? 559 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: That has to do with the twenty million dollars because 560 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: the company was in debt? What does the bankruptcy thing about? Okay, 561 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: that was part of that of that in bankruptcy. We 562 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: sold off the assets for twenty which is mostly the 563 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: intellectual property. Okay, so I get that. So so now 564 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: where does Netflix? Where does girl Boss coming? The book 565 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: the show Netflix. That's where we are now, that discussion 566 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: along the way. So Nasty Gal ended in late Um 567 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: in the spring had written a book called girl Boss 568 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: and it was about my story building Nasty ow Um, 569 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: which was an unlikely story. It was like a very 570 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: angry teenager sort an eBay store. You know. It was 571 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: a year after lenin Geryl Sandbord you had mentioned book 572 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: had come out, and they were like, literally the only 573 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: book in the women's business section was maybe like Susie Orman, 574 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: like it just wasn't there. And my story was one 575 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 1: that for every girl who wants to open, you know, 576 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: a small shop on the internet was relatable because there 577 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: are so many unlikely entrepreneurs out there, and in the 578 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: past it meant, you know, it meant you have to 579 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: have a degree or something, and the Internet made this 580 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: possible for all of us. Um. So I wrote this 581 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: book called girl Boss that's spent eighteen weeks on the 582 00:30:55,320 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: New York Times bestseller list. Um became a phenomenon and 583 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: a word that was in the zeit guys, that became 584 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: like totally out of my control and amazing, and so 585 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: the book did extremely well. You're responsible for that word, like, yeah, yeah, 586 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: I didn't know. For example, it's so funny if I 587 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: ordered Margarita and then they skinny Margarita, I'm like, I 588 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: invented that. They're like, ha ha, I know, I actually 589 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: invented that. So I've heard So we've all heard girl Boss, 590 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: but we don't just like, you know, I know that 591 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: Paris Hilton started That's Hot, and uh, Christian Sirianni started Fierce, 592 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: but I didn't know that you started girl Okay, and 593 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: I know the term and I but I didn't know 594 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: that you started the term totally. Yeah, I'm responsible for that. 595 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: UM And you know, Charlie Sarah got a copy of 596 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: it and w me my agency at my agency put 597 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: us in touch and we had a meeting and we 598 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: were like, cool, let's she has a production company and 599 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: we were like, great, let's do this. Let's find someone 600 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: to write it, Let's find a showrunner. Found Kay Cannon 601 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: who had and pitch Perfect and pitch Perfect too. Found 602 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: a director Christian did Her, who was great. UM took 603 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: it to Netflix and they bought it in the room 604 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: and they sent it straight to um what's it called, 605 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: not development like production, like they say it straight to 606 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: They didn't make us do a pilot, um and yeah. 607 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 1: And so basically there's a show on Netflix one season 608 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: where there's a girl named Sophia in San Francisco starting 609 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: an eBay store called Nasty Gal, working the lobby of 610 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: Arts school, which was my last job, um, you know, 611 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: stealing ship, which is what I did. Um. And you know, 612 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: by the end of the first season, she's launched an 613 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: eBay store and like sells out of everything, which you know, 614 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: or she launches her website. She leaves Abay, launches her 615 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 1: website and sells out of everything. And it's like wow, Um, 616 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: so that was wild, you know, and I think I 617 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: mean again, like I knew that could have gone any 618 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: number of directions. The show came out four months after 619 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: Nasty All fell apart, not good timing, and it was 620 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: you know, in November of sixteen, was when Trump won 621 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: and Hillary lost. The Women's movement started the word girl 622 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,239 Speaker 1: boss and a show about like an angry girl, just 623 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: like a white girl, privileged white girl being like you know, 624 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: angry and an unlikable character and a show called girl 625 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: Boss not being an example of women in the workplace 626 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: was like it was just like it was like held 627 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: to a different standard. My story had changed. So here 628 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: I am in seventeen four months after leaving my company, 629 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: and there's a hundred thirty million people and I don't 630 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: know how an hundred countries, Uh, watching a show with 631 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: a person named Sophia building a company called nasty Gal 632 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: when I was no longer involved. So I'm trying to 633 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: move on and the whole world is cleaning out about 634 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: nasty Gal and my story and it was just like. Also, 635 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,399 Speaker 1: in prior to the bankruptcy, my husband of a year 636 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: left me and I was on the cover of Forbes, 637 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: So it was like you sixteen, like cover Forbes because 638 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: my stock was worth a lot m husband bailed. Uh. 639 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 1: That was the summer company fell apart November. Netflix series 640 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: came out April. Like that year was such a mind fuck. 641 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,399 Speaker 1: Um well, I mean it's like being back at your 642 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,319 Speaker 1: company again when you have fifty things coming at you 643 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 1: and it's a ship show. Is just a different ship show. 644 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:46,399 Speaker 1: That's unbelievable. It was total whip last Wow. Yeah, yeah, 645 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: that is okay. Wow, So that when did that whole 646 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: storm pass and like you got to reinvent and be 647 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: a new person and just like not feel all of 648 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: that pretty immediately because I got up and I started 649 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: a company called girl Boss, and I held a conference 650 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: called the girl Boss Rally, and I did that in 651 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 1: March actually before the Netflix series. UM, I hadn't. I 652 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: raised a little bit of money UM and had a 653 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: conference with five women called the girl Boss Rally. Eventually, 654 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: you know, had twenty five people, built that maybe like 655 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,280 Speaker 1: five million in revenue of the course of a few years, 656 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: and sold that at the end of twenty nineteen, right 657 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: before the pandemic. So it was I had a podcast 658 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: for five years called girl Boss Radio, so that was 659 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: part of it. We had a newsletter. We worked with brands, 660 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,720 Speaker 1: so we did like large brand partnerships that lived across 661 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: you know, the newsletter, my podcast. It was all kind 662 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: of integrated in like the different properties that we had, 663 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: including the conference and experiential or events. Was a large 664 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: part of that. UM and then the pandemic happened, so 665 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: I had sold the company, was still in the company 666 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: pandemic happened. Reb a new brands pulled all their dollars, 667 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: brands weren't sponsoring anything. That's there's people in fucking trucks 668 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 1: in New York, you know. Um. And so the company 669 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: actually sold again and I left. I was just like, 670 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,280 Speaker 1: I'm not starting my company over. I could have stayed, 671 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,880 Speaker 1: but I'm just I'm selfish enough at this point to 672 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,720 Speaker 1: be like, I'm not going to martyr myself and found 673 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: my own company again. Like if some you know, I 674 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 1: just as a founder, if you know, I always feel 675 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: like I have to stay and I have to be 676 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 1: I'm so passionate that like I would do anything and 677 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: die and start over. And no, I'm just not. I 678 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: don't do that, Like I don't do that and um. 679 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: And then went on to start business Class, which is 680 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,320 Speaker 1: very digital, very you know, the contents digital, the community's digital. 681 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:55,240 Speaker 1: I marketed digitally, you know, UM. And I'm working directly 682 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 1: with my audience rather than you know, I don't have investors. 683 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 1: I bootstrapped it. I don't have stakeholders. I one employee. 684 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: You know, nobody's really affected by what I do other 685 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: than my end like my community. And so if they're 686 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,800 Speaker 1: happy and they're loving business Class, that's all that matters 687 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:17,840 Speaker 1: and so there's not this like different masters like investors 688 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: and employees and you know, brand on a treadmill. You 689 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: can do an event and you don't have to do one. 690 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: You could do one. Engage people have a conversation or 691 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: you don't have to have a conversation. You don't. You 692 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: don't owe anybody anything except for what you you know, 693 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 1: like a good relationship. Wow. What And I imagine you're 694 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 1: sharing all of these stories with them and like it's 695 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: just you know, wow. I I understand a lot of 696 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,879 Speaker 1: what you were saying, I mean the spirit of it 697 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 1: and the mistakes of it and the shackles of it. 698 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: And I think that the overall takeaway is that people 699 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: need to understand their own business style, what they want 700 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 1: their business culture to be, who they want to surround 701 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: themselves with, and also understand that the chess cam can 702 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: get complicated, Like you were talking about more and more 703 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 1: tentacles being like wrapped around you, Like you had more 704 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: doing one thing. You put one ft in front of 705 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: the other, and then all of a sudden you're in 706 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,720 Speaker 1: some woods. Sometimes it's good to be on a journey 707 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 1: and you end up somewhere great. Sometimes you get like 708 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: stuck in the middle of a deep, dark forest and 709 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,320 Speaker 1: you don't know how to get out. You're swimming halfway 710 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,839 Speaker 1: from Cuba to Florida and you have no idea whether 711 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 1: to keep going or to go back. You're just drowning. 712 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: It happened, it can happen, and it's that's a cautionary 713 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,719 Speaker 1: tale for business, and I really do understand it, and 714 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 1: people have to take their own temperatures and not get 715 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 1: in too deep because truthfully, pigs do get fat and 716 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,319 Speaker 1: hogs gets watered. You get into deep and everything sounds good, 717 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,760 Speaker 1: and you could drown. So I think that's very different 718 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 1: conversation than we've had on the show and super important. Honestly, 719 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: an amazing story. But I wouldn't have changed anything, you know, 720 00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 1: because you know, I've I've kind of viewed my experience 721 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: as an opportunity to learn about myself. So how I 722 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 1: am as a leader, maybe the way I am in 723 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 1: a relationship, you know, like the feedback I get, you know, 724 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: from my employees, even if I don't like it, sometimes 725 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: it's an opportunity for me to learn, you know, UM. 726 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 1: And so it's just been like I wouldn't trade any 727 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 1: of it, um, and I want I say yes to 728 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 1: things even when I know they may not work out, 729 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 1: like a Netflix series or you know, raising a ton 730 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 1: of money. It probably could have sold my business for 731 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,320 Speaker 1: a hundred million dollars when I own a hundred percent 732 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 1: of it, you know, and been like on the journey. 733 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: And so I guess I kind of and this feels 734 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,319 Speaker 1: really cavalier. And maybe as I get older, I don't 735 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: necessarily I'm not making decisions like this. But I've always thought, 736 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:53,879 Speaker 1: you know, if I can look back on my life 737 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 1: and it's like an entertaining story or would make a 738 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: good book or would make good content, like, I'll say 739 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,919 Speaker 1: yes to it. Um. But that kind of gets old. 740 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: And now I'm you know, I'll be thirty eight in 741 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 1: a few weeks, and I'm thinking about the rest of 742 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 1: my life, and my mortality is kind of kicking in. 743 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: And do I want a family? Do I want to 744 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,920 Speaker 1: just travel the world? Do I like I can do anything. 745 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 1: I'm single for the first time in like a decade. 746 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:18,840 Speaker 1: I'm going on dates. No, he's taking me on I 747 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 1: mean boyfriends, but like I've never dated, Like I've never 748 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 1: gone on dates with strangers. And so I'm like literally 749 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: a month into and four months out of relationship. But 750 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 1: I'm like, it's just like a totally weird fresh ripe, 751 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 1: you know, transitional time for me, And yeah, I think 752 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 1: you should eat pray love. It's once you get entangled 753 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 1: in having kids and being on that road and you'll 754 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 1: have new tentacles on. You have a new master and 755 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,239 Speaker 1: that doesn't sound like something you like, and you do 756 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,839 Speaker 1: have time. I would just because you said it. Now 757 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 1: it's out there, so I would travel the world. I would. 758 00:40:57,760 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I want to take my I 759 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 1: would love take my daughter out of school home school 760 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: here and just go live in Italy for six months 761 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: and make pasta like I have a free spirit vibe. 762 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: And my assistants always say, you can't do that, you 763 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,400 Speaker 1: have to come back. You can't do that either, come 764 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,800 Speaker 1: back that you can't do. Eventually, I booked an airline 765 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:17,240 Speaker 1: ticket on April nine to go to Europe on a whim, 766 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,719 Speaker 1: so I'm going at the end of next month, and um, 767 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 1: I don't have anything booked. But I pinned my friend 768 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 1: who I know is like staying in like Como, and 769 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,319 Speaker 1: he was like, he's like actually living there and has 770 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 1: like guest bedrooms and it's like just come like, stay 771 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,360 Speaker 1: here as long as you want. So, speaking of Italy, 772 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,840 Speaker 1: I'm just like, I'm gonna get on Riya in like 773 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 1: Paris and see I love it to see who likes me. Yeah, hey, 774 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: that's awesome. Um wow, Well what an interesting person, what 775 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 1: an interesting conversation. I appreciate you being so transparent. I 776 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 1: can't wait to hear what you work on next and 777 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,720 Speaker 1: where you end up eating and praying and loving after Italy. 778 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 1: So I appreciate it. I can't wait to tell Andy 779 00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 1: I met you. Yeah, yeah, it's so nice to finally 780 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: meet you. I liked your show, I like your spirit 781 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 1: and your attitude, and I've always just kind of from 782 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,480 Speaker 1: a distance related to you in some weird way. So 783 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,799 Speaker 1: it's nice to meet you. Well, thank you. Nice to 784 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: meet you too. If you end up in Poland, you 785 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 1: can go visit our warehouse. But be strong because, like 786 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,759 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of relief works. So if you 787 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 1: end up having to be part of your prey journey, 788 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 1: let me know. But it was really nice to meet you, 789 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 1: and you too, I guess rose and thorn what your 790 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: rose and thorn of the whole thing was the whole experience? 791 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 1: Your business? Yeah, your business my business. I mean, I 792 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: mean the Rose is having, like the Beasts, a life 793 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,759 Speaker 1: that I could never have imagined, and I still do. 794 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 1: But like that trip, that trip, just that whole trip 795 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:56,840 Speaker 1: is doesn't happen, and then Thorn just lost, you know, 796 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,800 Speaker 1: and out running it, starting another busin this and girl 797 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:06,719 Speaker 1: Boss and trying to stay relevant and aging, and I 798 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,279 Speaker 1: mean I could go on, but I think, like out 799 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 1: running pain and loss, like I keep moving, and I'm 800 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 1: in this time where it's like creeping in and I'm 801 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 1: processing it and I'm learning a lot about myself and 802 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna you know what worked, you know what worked, 803 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,920 Speaker 1: what got me here, won't get me there? Got it? Okay, awesome, 804 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,839 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Thank you a great right by 805 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 1: you too. So that was really interesting. Hearing about people's crazy, 806 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,160 Speaker 1: nontraditional journeys to success and failure is so important. And 807 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,920 Speaker 1: Sophia was very transparent about her mistakes and her failures. 808 00:43:57,920 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 1: And a lot of the people on here are so 809 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,200 Speaker 1: may juror and have been so successful that they don't 810 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:09,200 Speaker 1: really talk about the granular details of the failures and mistakes. 811 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:10,799 Speaker 1: And for any of you who want to start a 812 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 1: business or who have a business, I think these are 813 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,799 Speaker 1: such important cautionary tales. You do not know you can 814 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,879 Speaker 1: get caught in the web and in quicksand and as 815 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,000 Speaker 1: quickly as you can be successful, you can get pulled 816 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 1: down and drown. It's more common than not. I mean, 817 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,759 Speaker 1: I know of brands that have been around and been 818 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,719 Speaker 1: the hottest thing for a couple of years, and they're 819 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:33,920 Speaker 1: doing well and they're making money and they have to expand, 820 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,840 Speaker 1: and then they drown. I mean, brands that are on 821 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,280 Speaker 1: top of the world and then something happens, like a pandemic, 822 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 1: and then they drowned. So hearing about people's mistakes is 823 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,120 Speaker 1: really critical. And I just like this talk because it's 824 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:51,520 Speaker 1: so different. So that was I'm grateful for for that 825 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,280 Speaker 1: conversation that I'm grateful for you to have that information. 826 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:59,200 Speaker 1: So there has been controversy around words like girl boss, right, 827 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,760 Speaker 1: so it's art it as feminism, and then it became 828 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,439 Speaker 1: wait a second, why do we have to call out 829 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,120 Speaker 1: that it's a girl boss. I've never loved that kind 830 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,560 Speaker 1: of boss, bitch, boss babe, all that stuff. That's just 831 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,400 Speaker 1: not my brand of person. I'm just a person that's successful. 832 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,040 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if I'm a man or a woman. 833 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:18,960 Speaker 1: But I do understand how women have been behind the 834 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,080 Speaker 1: eight ball. They've been paid less, they haven't had the 835 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,320 Speaker 1: same opportunities. So when someone's a girl who's a boss, 836 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,279 Speaker 1: they want to shout it out. And that might be 837 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,680 Speaker 1: a little dated now, but you can't always be current 838 00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,080 Speaker 1: with the vernacular. I came up with a brand called 839 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,759 Speaker 1: skinny Girl. That is not the most popular thing in 840 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,839 Speaker 1: certain sections. Meaning I'm not calling my swimwear brand skinny girl. 841 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,880 Speaker 1: That's not what I want to be doing. Popcorn, great 842 00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: salad dressing, wonderful bathing suits. No, So you gotta you 843 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,480 Speaker 1: know EBB and flow, and the times will change, so 844 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,200 Speaker 1: not every term or word will be current and popular. 845 00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,360 Speaker 1: But it's undeniable that Sophia. It took a lot of 846 00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:59,840 Speaker 1: chances at a very young age. Very very interesting. I 847 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:04,320 Speaker 1: appreciate you. Remember to rate, review and subscribe and keep listening. 848 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,200 Speaker 1: We are killing it. We're doing really, really well. We 849 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:12,520 Speaker 1: keep growing, so more fun news to come. But thank you. 850 00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:16,880 Speaker 1: Have a great day. H