Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the
Speaker 1: modern white tail hunter, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. Today in the show,
Speaker 1: I am joined by Nate and Thomas Crick, host of
Speaker 1: Identical Draw, to discuss their experience as young twentysomethings diving
Speaker 1: head first into white tail land management and their experiences
Speaker 1: managing their famili's eighty acre farm. All right, welcome back
Speaker 1: to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by
Speaker 1: First Light, and we are continuing here with our white
Speaker 1: tail land management series of sorts that I'm doing here
Speaker 1: this month. And it's kind of taken a kind of
Speaker 1: an average Joe spin because last week it was me
Speaker 1: and Tony sharing our experiences, and this week I got
Speaker 1: the did to talk to a couple folks who I
Speaker 1: don't think we would normally be looking to for advice
Speaker 1: on how to dive into white tail land management. Usually,
Speaker 1: you know, usually the people we talked about these things
Speaker 1: are consultants. They're experts in the field who have been
Speaker 1: doing it for forty years. These are guys who owned
Speaker 1: two thousand acres and killed big bucks every year, YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 1: But what about the rest of us. What about young people?
Speaker 1: What about folks who don't know everything and who are
Speaker 1: just trying to figure it out? I think that is
Speaker 1: an interesting perspective to explore, too, and that's why today
Speaker 1: I asked Nate and Thomas Crick to join me on
Speaker 1: the show. These two guys, they are brothers there and
Speaker 1: their early twenties. They host a show on their YouTube
Speaker 1: channel called Identical Draw and their die hard deer hunters,
Speaker 1: and a handful of years ago their family decided they
Speaker 1: were going to buy a family farm somewhere and Naton
Speaker 1: Thomas were going to be in charge of the search
Speaker 1: for that farm, and they were going to be in
Speaker 1: charge of managing it, managing it, turning this into something
Speaker 1: that could be great for their white tail hunting and
Speaker 1: for the other goals they had as a family for
Speaker 1: this place and as twenty year olds when this all started,
Speaker 1: I think that probably was a pretty intimidating thing, and
Speaker 1: I'm interested in that. I'm interested in what it looks
Speaker 1: like for a young couple of kids to try to
Speaker 1: figure this kind of stuff out. They can be kind
Speaker 1: of intimidating figuring out how to plan a white tail management.
Speaker 1: You know, the series of years. What are you gonna
Speaker 1: do over the next decade, How are you going to
Speaker 1: plant food plats to timber work burned anything like that.
Speaker 1: That's a lot for me to consider thirty four years old.
Speaker 1: I know a lot of forty five and fifty year
Speaker 1: olds who probably feel the same way. Let alone, if
Speaker 1: you were twenty and these guys did it. They dove in,
Speaker 1: they read everything they could, they talked to everyone they could,
Speaker 1: They brought in some people to help point them in
Speaker 1: the direct direction, and they learned and they learned and
Speaker 1: they learned, and over the last three years they have
Speaker 1: been enjoying the fruits of that labor and those learnings.
Speaker 1: And that's what we're going to discuss today. We're gonna
Speaker 1: find out how Thomas and Nate figure this haul out themselves.
Speaker 1: And in short, I think it's pretty inspiring. You know,
Speaker 1: if you're a young person yourself, if you're twenty or
Speaker 1: five or thirty, and you've been seeing people on TV
Speaker 1: doing this land management thing, and maybe your family has property,
Speaker 1: or maybe you have been in a position where maybe
Speaker 1: you could buy your own little piece. But that seems
Speaker 1: like a whole lot to consider, and it's pretty intimidating. Well,
Speaker 1: I think this conversation today might just empower you to
Speaker 1: give it a shot. And if you're in a different
Speaker 1: position but still have been wanting to dive into this world,
Speaker 1: I think what Nate and Thomas have to share will
Speaker 1: be very useful to you as well. They share with
Speaker 1: me a lot about what they've learned on the side
Speaker 1: of food plot. We discussed a lot about timber management
Speaker 1: and what you can do with very limited resources to
Speaker 1: really improve a property the timber management. We talked about
Speaker 1: fire and what it takes to kind of go down
Speaker 1: that road and begin trying something like that, and a
Speaker 1: lot more too. So I enjoyed this one. I think
Speaker 1: you all will as well. This isn't like, uh yeah,
Speaker 1: this isn't Craig Harper diving in from a university professors
Speaker 1: standpoint right. This is real people sharing real experiences, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that's something that's that's pretty cool
Speaker 1: to dive into. So I will give you two other
Speaker 1: quick reminders before we get into this one. Number one,
Speaker 1: if you are not already subscribed to the Wired to
Speaker 1: Hunt newsletter, please go do that. Go over to the
Speaker 1: meat Eater dot com and you'll see options in the
Speaker 1: menu there to subscribe. That's where we send out our
Speaker 1: weekly updates on the new content, the new articles, were publishing,
Speaker 1: the new podcast. If you miss any of those new videos,
Speaker 1: I I send a weekly little note I guess with
Speaker 1: updates from my world or interesting things going on, or
Speaker 1: suggestions or tips or things I might recommend you guys
Speaker 1: think about this time of the year. Tony Peterson jumps
Speaker 1: on there sometimes too, so make sure you're signed up
Speaker 1: for that. Speaking of videos, I want to remind you
Speaker 1: all that Tony and I and the team are continuing
Speaker 1: to pump out weekly how to videos over on the
Speaker 1: wired Hunt YouTube channel. So go on over to YouTube
Speaker 1: search for wired to Hunt, hit subscribe. Then we're cranking
Speaker 1: them out. It's it's a lot of work the team's
Speaker 1: putting in the hours to get quick, helpful and and
Speaker 1: I think you know pretty pretty um oh, heck, I
Speaker 1: don't know useful. I guess maybe it's the simple word,
Speaker 1: looking for useful, quick videos that I think will give
Speaker 1: you quick tips and suggestions to point you in the
Speaker 1: right direction, whether it's the off season right now or
Speaker 1: as we move into this summer and then the fall.
Speaker 1: The information you need to take into the field right away.
Speaker 1: So that's all I got for you today. Guys, appreciate
Speaker 1: you listening. Let's get to my chat with Nate and
Speaker 1: Thomas Crick. All right, hear I mean now I've got
Speaker 1: Nate and Thomas Krick. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me.
Speaker 1: Yeah you better. Yeah, I think you guys are the
Speaker 1: perfect people to talk to today for the conversation I
Speaker 1: want to have, um because I don't know how to
Speaker 1: put this in a way that doesn't sound slightly offensive,
Speaker 1: but but I think you guys are are kinda just
Speaker 1: rosy eyed knuckleheads just like me. And by that I
Speaker 1: mean like you've dove into a big, crazy project without
Speaker 1: a ton of experience, just wanting to learn a lot.
Speaker 1: When I when you think about your Kansas City project
Speaker 1: in your your dreams to transform a piece of property,
Speaker 1: does what I said does that sound accurate? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: mean that's like perfect mark because we didn't like have
Speaker 1: the Grandpa that had a couple of thousand acres, like
Speaker 1: we just hunted some some public like public land and
Speaker 1: a little bit of private that we had permission on.
Speaker 1: So yeah, exactly, Yeah, we had I mean zero land
Speaker 1: managing experience. Before. I mean, yeah, still really knew, definitely
Speaker 1: feel a lot better where we are now as land
Speaker 1: managers than we were three years ago. But yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I think that one of the things that at least
Speaker 1: I felt when I started doing this kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: and I'm guessing a lot of other people out there
Speaker 1: feel too, is you know, when you hear about most
Speaker 1: white tail land management or white tail improvement projects or advice,
Speaker 1: you know it's coming from these people who have been
Speaker 1: doing it for thirty years or forty years, and they've
Speaker 1: got thousands of acres, or if you watch somebody on TV,
Speaker 1: they've got two thousand acres and they're doing this perfect thing,
Speaker 1: and their their food plots look like perfectly manicured golf grains,
Speaker 1: and they've got twenty seven different box lines across it,
Speaker 1: and they shoot a hundred eight inch bucks four times
Speaker 1: a year, and and on and on and on, and
Speaker 1: it seems both so outside of the realm of possibility,
Speaker 1: and it seems intimidating when I hear about the nineteen
Speaker 1: different fertilizer types and the seven different tractors I need
Speaker 1: to have, and YadA, YadA, YadA. I think all of
Speaker 1: that can for some people be paralyzing, and it keeps
Speaker 1: people from ever wanting to actually dive in and and
Speaker 1: try it if they just have thirty acres or eighty
Speaker 1: acres or sixty acres and a four wheeler. Um. And
Speaker 1: I think your story is one that I think and
Speaker 1: hopefully we're gonna find out here in a second, I
Speaker 1: think it kind of flips out in its head. Um.
Speaker 1: So so can you can you just set the stage
Speaker 1: for me, Like, how did the Kansas A d come about? Like?
Speaker 1: I know that this is a property that your your
Speaker 1: family bought and you guys have kind of taken the
Speaker 1: lead on it. But how did this this whole idea
Speaker 1: come together? Yeah? So basically, I mean we've been avid
Speaker 1: into the outdoors, um for forever, it seems, um, And
Speaker 1: so I don't know for us it which just like
Speaker 1: this like general like accumulating want to like have our
Speaker 1: own ground because like we have we have a lot
Speaker 1: of generous friends that would let us hunt. But man,
Speaker 1: in the back of our minds for so long, we're like, man,
Speaker 1: wouldn't it be sweet to have just even the smallest
Speaker 1: little chunk of ground that we could manage ourselves, like
Speaker 1: actually like have some food sources and do all this stuff,
Speaker 1: and so kind of we sat down with the parents
Speaker 1: because obviously, um what we were teenagers basically at the
Speaker 1: time we were trying to figure this all out. We're like,
Speaker 1: obviously we have like ten bucks to our name. So
Speaker 1: luckily we have amazing parents that also wanted property just
Speaker 1: for like the family's sake and just like kind of
Speaker 1: a family legacy that you can start and have for
Speaker 1: generations and stuff like that. Um. And so we kind
Speaker 1: of combine our efforts and um man I had Luckily,
Speaker 1: I was friends with a few different land agents in uh, Nebraska, Iowa,
Speaker 1: and Kansas, and I kind of, I mean, I went
Speaker 1: to look at a lot of properties and I I
Speaker 1: kind of told him. I was like, Hey, this is
Speaker 1: what the family is looking for. It needs to be
Speaker 1: like less than this far away from the house. So
Speaker 1: we wanted it to not be a super long drive
Speaker 1: away from our home home. And then we wanted to
Speaker 1: have a certain structure for um, not only just like family,
Speaker 1: Like we'd like to have like a build side, like
Speaker 1: we uh could build a shed so we could have
Speaker 1: families stay down here sometimes. Um. And then also we
Speaker 1: wanted to have a hunting side and so I told
Speaker 1: those guys like, hey, if you see this perfect property
Speaker 1: of things we want line up, you better I better
Speaker 1: be the first one you text. And so it's show enough.
Speaker 1: It should be noted that I mean that we were
Speaker 1: looking pretty aggressively, like at at properties for two years, uh,
Speaker 1: leading up to when we purchased a d So we
Speaker 1: kind of I mean, it wasn't just like a right
Speaker 1: away thing that we found this. So you always have
Speaker 1: people reaching out asking like how how we decided to
Speaker 1: buy a property, because one it's a huge financial investment,
Speaker 1: but then secondly, it's just like you wanted to be
Speaker 1: the perfect thing if you're gonna put the money down.
Speaker 1: So we always just had a kind of a scale
Speaker 1: one to five what's most important, And then every time
Speaker 1: we'd roll up to a property, you wet, um, we
Speaker 1: kind of go through that list and it kind of
Speaker 1: made it easy for us to decide. So and the
Speaker 1: white tail side of me like we grew up in
Speaker 1: a breast pretty good white tail hunting, um, but like
Speaker 1: not to fin mind a Braska friends, but it's not
Speaker 1: on the level of like an Iowa in Kansas, um.
Speaker 1: And so I was looking in Iowa and Kansas because
Speaker 1: we live We lived down south, like south southeastern Nebraska,
Speaker 1: so like Iowa Kansas. We're getting to both those states
Speaker 1: like within an hour. So I was like, the white
Speaker 1: tail side of me is like, Okay, I'm definitely gonna
Speaker 1: be looking at Iowa Kansas a little more than Nebraska, um,
Speaker 1: just because I know they managed or stay a little
Speaker 1: different and they grew getting big white tails. Um. So
Speaker 1: sure enough. One of my buddies from the Land real
Speaker 1: Estate company text me is, actually we're at the Archer
Speaker 1: Trade Association trade show between nineteen and he's like, I've
Speaker 1: got a property. You want to see this? And he's
Speaker 1: like it's gonna go like on the market market like
Speaker 1: next week, and like everything's gonna be shown, like they
Speaker 1: have a bunch of big buck trail camps and stuff.
Speaker 1: Was like, so if you want like stab at, that's
Speaker 1: seeing I get down to your fast and so we, uh,
Speaker 1: that's what we did. We were there early that next week,
Speaker 1: and I mean we saw the property, loved it, parents
Speaker 1: loved it, um, and we shot, we shot low and
Speaker 1: we got it. So that's that's basically. It was freaking perfect.
Speaker 1: So what were those you mentioned. You've got a bunch
Speaker 1: of different criteria that you were looking at, and you
Speaker 1: were kind of like a one to five scale of
Speaker 1: what's most important everything like that when you were looking
Speaker 1: for this perfect property that would both achieve your white
Speaker 1: tail goals but also the family goals. What were those
Speaker 1: perfect things you were looking to check the boxes on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it was there kind of like two lists or
Speaker 1: like what the parents wanted to see and then what
Speaker 1: means they wanted to see, and then we kind of
Speaker 1: men in the middle. But um, ideally we wanted water
Speaker 1: on it, some sort of water, whether it be a
Speaker 1: pond or or a creek. And we've got a creek
Speaker 1: on ours basically running all the way north to south
Speaker 1: that most years is has water in it u flowing
Speaker 1: and the whole whole time. So um that we checked
Speaker 1: the box there. Um distance from home right at two hours, Um,
Speaker 1: we didn't want to go close to three uh. Two
Speaker 1: hour drive to us is much more dooble than at
Speaker 1: in an hour, so it worked for our for our distance,
Speaker 1: um size wise, UM, I wasn't going to break the bank. UM,
Speaker 1: So I don't know me what else doing. We wanted
Speaker 1: definitely just diversity on it. Um. So we noticed on
Speaker 1: this piece we had. It was mainly like at least
Speaker 1: sixty five seventy acres of the eighty acres that we
Speaker 1: own is like all timber, um. We love that. Um.
Speaker 1: And then there was also like some um just grassy
Speaker 1: fields and stuff like that that we were picturing. Okay,
Speaker 1: easily food pots, but also just good um, just good
Speaker 1: grassy mixture up there on top. And so those are
Speaker 1: kind of the things. We wanted to be able to
Speaker 1: access it pretty easily. And one of the sides has
Speaker 1: a road that we can that runs right along the
Speaker 1: side of it, so um, we didn't have to worry
Speaker 1: about not being able to get in there certain times
Speaker 1: of the year there being like really rainy or something
Speaker 1: like that. But I wanted to the parents really wanted
Speaker 1: to build location kind of like I already mentioned for
Speaker 1: like a shed or a cabinet at some point. Um.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, those are kind of the checkbox. And
Speaker 1: this one just this one just met It was in
Speaker 1: the price range and also just a size like I mean,
Speaker 1: I think that's one thing that Thomas and I really
Speaker 1: tried to stress through our channels is like small properties
Speaker 1: can be deadly. You don't need anything crazy. So this
Speaker 1: ad acres fit that perfectly as well. It certainly seems
Speaker 1: like it from the you know, from watching the videos
Speaker 1: and everything that now you mentioned there's there's a stream,
Speaker 1: there's this road access, there's timber, there's grass. When you
Speaker 1: stepped foot on the property for the first time after
Speaker 1: you guys had you know, it became your family's property,
Speaker 1: and you stepped foot and you realized, wow, this is
Speaker 1: this is ours? What did that? Can you remember what
Speaker 1: that first day felt like? Are those first moments stepping
Speaker 1: foot out there, walking across it was? It was it overwhelming?
Speaker 1: Was it just exciting? Uh? What was going through your
Speaker 1: guys heads? Yeah, it was like where do we start?
Speaker 1: Like we uh, since identical draw was the thing back then,
Speaker 1: we we filmed it so you can actually watch like
Speaker 1: our first time walking it as landowners on our YouTube
Speaker 1: channel and it's we like, I go back and watch
Speaker 1: that episode because sometimes you get just so in the
Speaker 1: mix of trying to kill a white tail and you
Speaker 1: just gotta uh get that feeling of what I felt
Speaker 1: like the first time you're on it. But um, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was it was a really snowy day. Actually the
Speaker 1: first day it was gosh, it was like sixtight six
Speaker 1: eight inches down, I think, um, so it was just
Speaker 1: like where do we start and like, let's just see
Speaker 1: what this place has, because we did a walk through
Speaker 1: before we put an offer on and we just it
Speaker 1: was quick, like I know, maybe thirty minutes to an
Speaker 1: hour walk through, and um, I think it's just excitement
Speaker 1: of what we were gonna what we're gonna find. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean right off the bat you could uh just
Speaker 1: see the deer travel was like really thick. So that
Speaker 1: was exciting. Um. Our Ad is definitely a big turkey hunter.
Speaker 1: He hasn't he hasn't dabbled as much into there, but
Speaker 1: I remember seeing some turkey tracks. I remember him being
Speaker 1: really excited about that. But I do think the overwhelming
Speaker 1: thing was like, man, what are we going to turn
Speaker 1: this into? Like it felt like we had like a
Speaker 1: just a clean slate, like you have almost eighty acres
Speaker 1: of just pure timber that you can just open up
Speaker 1: where you want to open up, leaf thick where you
Speaker 1: want to leaf thick, and um, I don't know, it
Speaker 1: just seemed like a mixture of like really daunting and
Speaker 1: super exciting that I mean, this ground that we're walking on.
Speaker 1: His arts like that I mean, it was a really surreal,
Speaker 1: crazy feeling. I can imagine I've I've I've had sort
Speaker 1: of like that, Like when we when I got to
Speaker 1: be a part of the back forty with Mediator and
Speaker 1: I got to essentially steward and head up that project.
Speaker 1: I was there for all those types of things, and
Speaker 1: I put in helped put in the offer, and I
Speaker 1: got to be on the property and all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. So I was the pseudo owner of the
Speaker 1: farm for two years, and I felt a kind of
Speaker 1: similar things like that, but but knowing that there was
Speaker 1: gonna be this heartbreak some number of years down the
Speaker 1: road when I'd have to walk away. So you guys
Speaker 1: got to get to keep enjoying it. So I'm jealous
Speaker 1: about that one, um. But I do know one of
Speaker 1: the very first things I had to be thinking about
Speaker 1: during that was right off the gate, you know, before
Speaker 1: I even started making plans or thinking about plans. I
Speaker 1: remember sitting down and thinking through, Okay, before I can
Speaker 1: know where I'm going, or before I can do anything,
Speaker 1: I need to know where I'm trying to go. I
Speaker 1: need to know what the goals are going to be
Speaker 1: for this property. Explicitly is it just to kill the
Speaker 1: biggest buck ever? Is it to kill a lot of deer?
Speaker 1: Is it to have deer and turkeys and squirrels? Is
Speaker 1: it to do this and that and this and that
Speaker 1: and have all these different people and all these different things.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of different questions I was working through
Speaker 1: when trying to figure out what we should do with
Speaker 1: that place. So what was that process like for you guys?
Speaker 1: How did you guys go about figuring out what the
Speaker 1: goals were? Was that simple? Was that like a debate
Speaker 1: between you and the family? What did that look like?
Speaker 1: And then where'd you end up? Like what was the
Speaker 1: what was the goal list once you guys came to
Speaker 1: some kind of agreement if if you did, yeah, so
Speaker 1: those I mean definitely right off the bat, we uh,
Speaker 1: we did think about management things. But it's also like, man,
Speaker 1: the parents like really wanted like a ship or something
Speaker 1: down here because it's like, you know, we come down here,
Speaker 1: there's nowhere like if you work on it, there's nowhere
Speaker 1: to shower, Like, there's nowhere to just like like chill out,
Speaker 1: to canna eat or anything. So it's like, okay, that
Speaker 1: was that was definitely a high goal. But that was
Speaker 1: like kind of out of me and Tom's rown back then,
Speaker 1: because again we were just poor kids back then. UM.
Speaker 1: So it's like, okay, parents, you can work on putting
Speaker 1: maybe a shed up on the property somewhere. Um. And
Speaker 1: there were a lot of discussions about where we're gonna
Speaker 1: put the shed, um and when we're gonna there's a
Speaker 1: tricky situation mark because they're they're funding the project, but
Speaker 1: at the same time we're trying to convince them on
Speaker 1: when to do it, like during the summertime, uh not
Speaker 1: during the fall. Actually ended up happening like in the
Speaker 1: smack dab of October were which which didn't actually have
Speaker 1: a huge effect, but it was definitely like one of
Speaker 1: those like I'm just gonna we're gonna have to let
Speaker 1: you do this one day because you did buy it,
Speaker 1: so we're just gonna There were a couple of sits,
Speaker 1: like mid October, late October. You could just hear like
Speaker 1: the construction guys music blairing like a couple hud yards
Speaker 1: and when you're like, okay, like this might have an effect,
Speaker 1: probably have an effect. We'll see I don't really have
Speaker 1: a choice here, but um, I don't know. So that
Speaker 1: was definitely something we discussed a lot um management side
Speaker 1: of things. We really like had no idea where to start.
Speaker 1: So I think one of our best um ideas we
Speaker 1: had was that first spring we had the property, we
Speaker 1: had a few people from q d M A now
Speaker 1: NDA come down and walk the property with us, Matt
Speaker 1: Ross being one of them, and he is just a
Speaker 1: wealth of knowledge and we walked the whole eight with him,
Speaker 1: and man like, I think that really lit our management
Speaker 1: fire for like our management goals, um, just because she's
Speaker 1: like a wealth of knowledge. He knew every tree we're seeing,
Speaker 1: he knew like good dear food, he knew the structure
Speaker 1: we wanted on that property. So like that's when our
Speaker 1: management goals really kicked in. But other goals, I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously we're just like hunting was like number one, Like
Speaker 1: let's kill a giant white tailed big Kansas white tail
Speaker 1: down here. Um, we didn't really have like we didn't
Speaker 1: need to be like, Okay, this next season we need
Speaker 1: to kill like a hundred and eight inch year. We're
Speaker 1: just like let's just um trying to hunt this as
Speaker 1: well as possible and just like be really really patient
Speaker 1: with it. Um. But yeah, the goals were definitely some
Speaker 1: of those things that shed and this different management stuff.
Speaker 1: But it's still like working propers, like our our goals
Speaker 1: are kind of changing throughout, but also like we're achieving
Speaker 1: some goals and then like a year later down the road,
Speaker 1: we realized that, Okay, that's not really goal we want
Speaker 1: to attain. We're going to switch it up a little bit. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: some of them were reaching, some of them we don't.
Speaker 1: So what about that planning process you mentioned how Matt
Speaker 1: you know, came out walked it with you, helped you
Speaker 1: kind of get a better sense of what you had
Speaker 1: and what you could have. But but walk me through
Speaker 1: you know what that plan, you know how that plan
Speaker 1: came together and how that's evolved. Yeah, he I would say,
Speaker 1: he just really opened up our eyes. All all we
Speaker 1: had like really known, um was was what we had
Speaker 1: like washed on outdoor TV. Like how are these like
Speaker 1: food plot everywhere that there's any uh crack in the
Speaker 1: timber anywhere that you can fit a plot with any sunlight? Um,
Speaker 1: that's like what we had thought before Um Matt introduced
Speaker 1: us to t S I all these different things. UM,
Speaker 1: but he all like one of the biggest things he
Speaker 1: mentioned to us was uh, kind of separating the eight
Speaker 1: into different management units and going about it that way,
Speaker 1: which was I would say the most helpful thing he
Speaker 1: told us the whole time. So we broke eighty acres
Speaker 1: into six different management units. Um, and then we would
Speaker 1: decide what we were going to do in eacht unit,
Speaker 1: whether we're going to completely leave it alone, or food
Speaker 1: plot here, some t s I work here, maybe a
Speaker 1: prescribed fire um. So that kind of helped us really
Speaker 1: just slow down and look at it a big picture. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I would say, a, UM, one of one of
Speaker 1: the things the first thing he was like, he was like,
Speaker 1: the first thing I do, guys, is make roads on
Speaker 1: the property. Make a road around the entire perimeter, make
Speaker 1: roads throughout. And when he told me that the first time,
Speaker 1: I was like, mhm, Like I don't completely agree with
Speaker 1: that being the first thing that you should do. But
Speaker 1: now three years later, I'm like, one, Like, if you're
Speaker 1: a new landowner, put roads on that property so you
Speaker 1: can get around. Um, why is that so important? Because
Speaker 1: I bet you there's a lot of people skeptical just
Speaker 1: like you were. Yeah. So one, fire breaks. If you're
Speaker 1: going to prescribe fire, roads are perfect fire breaks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and if I mean that was like one of the
Speaker 1: biggest things that um he he and so many other
Speaker 1: landmakers we talked to stents have just like prescribed fire
Speaker 1: is just like one of the if you ask any
Speaker 1: land managers, it's in the top three things that you
Speaker 1: want to do with the property. So, um, it makes
Speaker 1: sense just to have that that road. Yeah. So that
Speaker 1: and then just being able to access different pieces is what.
Speaker 1: Or you shoot a deer back there and don't have
Speaker 1: to drag it out a half mile, or if you're
Speaker 1: carrying a twenty pound chainsaw and fuel and water and
Speaker 1: chaps and all that stuff during a hot day or something.
Speaker 1: I mean, just getting around places has been like we
Speaker 1: didn't have like really decent roads until this last year
Speaker 1: and it has made like a night and day difference
Speaker 1: just with like being able to finish things faster. And
Speaker 1: then also like with our eighty, it's so thick, the
Speaker 1: structure so thick that deer use them as highways. Like
Speaker 1: if you cut something, if you cut a path through
Speaker 1: the eight, the structure is so thick around here that
Speaker 1: it becomes a highway. Like I walked some roads this
Speaker 1: this offseason that we cut and I had I hadn't
Speaker 1: been there since like probably last spring, and I mean
Speaker 1: scrapes all over it, rubs running up and down because
Speaker 1: deer can get there now and they couldn't get there before.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean it just made our our work
Speaker 1: go way faster. So these management units that Matt recommended,
Speaker 1: you guys use, uh, why why does that matter? Why
Speaker 1: is that something that you guys actually found relief valuable?
Speaker 1: And then can you kind of describe to me what
Speaker 1: those management units look like in your specific example. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we we really broke up the management units. Um uh,
Speaker 1: all because of Matt, because like we'd be just walking
Speaker 1: and he would just like stop and be like, all right,
Speaker 1: we're in a brand new management unit, just because he
Speaker 1: could tell timber change, structure, change of the forest floor.
Speaker 1: Um but what they look like are either basically differentiate
Speaker 1: them because uh, there would be really good um like
Speaker 1: like oaks and really good timber, and then you'd go
Speaker 1: over one ridge and then it'd be crappy, crappy bowl
Speaker 1: on the maybe honey locust hedge. So he'd differentiated how
Speaker 1: we're going to handle the differences there and what we
Speaker 1: want to utilize, what we want to get rid of
Speaker 1: so um we always just we we went, we came
Speaker 1: on the eight thinking like okay, it's just all timber,
Speaker 1: that's it was just all one unit to us. But
Speaker 1: him studying this is completely different. This needs to be
Speaker 1: managed completely different. Um was huge. Yeah. So, like we
Speaker 1: had again we had six different units, like Unit one,
Speaker 1: I remember Unit one and two. They were in like
Speaker 1: our southeast corner, which has been like traditionally like we
Speaker 1: have like the some of the most son back there.
Speaker 1: And then also like it's like a cedar just like
Speaker 1: really good like betting area, and so we kind of
Speaker 1: like designated those, okay, is like we're not gonna like
Speaker 1: really hunt those and we're not really gonna, um like
Speaker 1: go in there very often. That's kind of be the
Speaker 1: sanctuary kind of. And those things have actually changed because
Speaker 1: we killed two bucks in December and the unit one
Speaker 1: this last year. But like basically like it gave us
Speaker 1: like really specific jobs we needed to do, so we
Speaker 1: could go through every single management unit and then have
Speaker 1: tasks we wanted to do in each one of those.
Speaker 1: So like management Unit three on our property was on
Speaker 1: the west side of the ground and it was all
Speaker 1: like food plots so it's like, okay, there's zero timber
Speaker 1: cutting here, but like in April May, you're gonna need
Speaker 1: to figure out some food plots and maybe you wanted
Speaker 1: the fall plot. Yeah, it wasn't food plot when we bottom,
Speaker 1: it's all just pasture ground. The owner previously just ran
Speaker 1: cattle through it. Also, no food there. We we just
Speaker 1: got the soil tested in UM. That was an easy
Speaker 1: management unit's up again for people who might UM own
Speaker 1: smaller tracts for just find property. We have no farming equipment.
Speaker 1: We just talked to a local farmer and he'll come over.
Speaker 1: We pay him hourly, cover all expenses for stuff, and
Speaker 1: he comes over and he puts in beans, corn um, Egyptian,
Speaker 1: we stuff like that. UM then comes back and sprays
Speaker 1: it and checks. So that's been super easy. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that was like Management Unit three were UM and then
Speaker 1: Management Unit six was in our northeast corner and that
Speaker 1: was like, okay, this is like supermature walnut oak. He's like, okay,
Speaker 1: you don't really like this would be a really good
Speaker 1: UM hunting unit because like you have like a really
Speaker 1: interesting creek system right here that the deer would probably use.
Speaker 1: But like you're like you should get a like a
Speaker 1: forester in here to harvest some of this timber. So
Speaker 1: it just gave us a really good way to break
Speaker 1: up the unit into smaller sections and just have really
Speaker 1: really sent goals instead of like looking at a whole lady,
Speaker 1: be like, wow, I just so much. What should we
Speaker 1: where should we even start? Just like, Okay, let's start
Speaker 1: a unit one today and then next week we can
Speaker 1: maybe work on food plus unit three stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that seems I can make it a lot
Speaker 1: less intimidating. Hum. That makes that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: So then back to developing this plan. So other than
Speaker 1: Matt being there on the ground with you and showing
Speaker 1: you stuff, what were the what were the most useful
Speaker 1: resources or people or books or I don't know, what
Speaker 1: were the other things that you were utilizing in those
Speaker 1: early months when you were trying to figure out what
Speaker 1: the heck do I do with all this ground and
Speaker 1: all this everything? What were the most helpful things to
Speaker 1: get started? It came it was nice Mark, because you
Speaker 1: were on your first year at the back forty two,
Speaker 1: So I'd be watching those YouTube videos like what's what's
Speaker 1: Mark dealing with? And he's trying to start this more
Speaker 1: and and then I felt better about what we were
Speaker 1: doing on the e D and we started far more.
Speaker 1: We got issues too, but it's just like I don't
Speaker 1: know that the new things we are are big time mentors,
Speaker 1: I would say in the outdoor industry or the Harlem
Speaker 1: Bill hunter guys um so Sean and Mike, they've been
Speaker 1: a huge resource and obviously they give us tips on
Speaker 1: some timber things and also just prescribed fire opened up
Speaker 1: our eyes a big time on there um. But um
Speaker 1: landing Legacy guys have been pretty huge with land managing
Speaker 1: over the past few years as well. I would say
Speaker 1: that was more in the last few years we've really
Speaker 1: hooked onto some of their their thoughts and ideas and
Speaker 1: the way they managed properties. The early on, it was
Speaker 1: a lot of reading and then having that farmer helped
Speaker 1: us really is. He helped us with the first prescribed fire.
Speaker 1: He helped us um understand where a good food plot
Speaker 1: start um starting point would be for our bigger plots.
Speaker 1: And then we that first year we did also have
Speaker 1: um gosh, just one clover plot. Um. He helped us
Speaker 1: get in there, till it up a little bit, and
Speaker 1: we we decided that first year that we were going
Speaker 1: to do minimal change because we wanted to see really
Speaker 1: how the deer used the property property naturally. And I
Speaker 1: think we did. I think that was a good decision
Speaker 1: because um we did. Uh. We did end up having
Speaker 1: like a really really good hunt um early October, and
Speaker 1: we haven't killed an early season buck since. Um. But
Speaker 1: we just kind of laid off of it, and besides
Speaker 1: doing maybe some little cutting here and there during the
Speaker 1: during the summer and putting in food plots, we just said, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna see what this eight does Natchurally, yeah, Matt.
Speaker 1: Having Matt down to the property definitely like lift the
Speaker 1: fire on us though, to like learn the timber and
Speaker 1: the plants there. Um. And one of the most helpful
Speaker 1: things I had on my phone was actually like a
Speaker 1: plant identification app. And I'm like, hey, if you don't
Speaker 1: want to play for pay for the subscription, that's up
Speaker 1: to you. But the few bucks a month has paid
Speaker 1: off huge for me. Um. So I'm just like, I'm
Speaker 1: a freaking plant tree nerd now and basically just take
Speaker 1: picks of everything I don't know and then when I
Speaker 1: get service, I can download those and see what they are,
Speaker 1: and then I literally will google different resources and try
Speaker 1: to find out if they're good or bad to be here.
Speaker 1: So it's been it's been a lot of that, just
Speaker 1: like own research and just doing some digging. But there
Speaker 1: have been like a few different books, Like you can
Speaker 1: get different books of like trees, like the Eastern and
Speaker 1: half United States, things like that. But like finding it
Speaker 1: and like equating it to white tails and food sources
Speaker 1: is tough, like finding what trees and plants are really
Speaker 1: solid for for white tails and different um, I mean
Speaker 1: any type of animal that's using the property and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. So um really, I mean just having those
Speaker 1: few individuals that helped us out and we'd we'd send Matt.
Speaker 1: We still send mat text every once in a while
Speaker 1: be like is this good? Should we get rid of it? Is?
Speaker 1: Should we keep it around? Things like that. So it's
Speaker 1: just a little by little, Um that's that's the biggest thing,
Speaker 1: because it I mean coming to uh in eighty acres
Speaker 1: or however big property somebody owns, I mean, there's gonna
Speaker 1: be hundreds of different things that you probably don't know
Speaker 1: on on the plant and tree side of things. So
Speaker 1: just pick off a few every single time, figure out
Speaker 1: if they're helping gear not helping gear, and then deal
Speaker 1: with them as you wish baby steps. I think that's
Speaker 1: that's definitely something I learned to. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: know if you guys have seen this book, but Dr
Speaker 1: Craig Harper has a great book UM about food plots
Speaker 1: and early successional plants and grasses. And within that one,
Speaker 1: he's got a bunch of species UM I D pages.
Speaker 1: I guess where it breaks down. Okay, this is what
Speaker 1: this plant looks like, and then a whole bunch of
Speaker 1: different nutritional information and how preferred it is by deer
Speaker 1: and wildlife and other stuff. That was a good one
Speaker 1: for me with the back forty UM. I used one
Speaker 1: of those apps too. I can't remember the name of it.
Speaker 1: I think it's I Naturalist is the one I've used UM,
Speaker 1: and that was pretty good. UM. But I want to
Speaker 1: I want to go back to something you mentioned a
Speaker 1: second ago, because it sounds like something I wish I
Speaker 1: could find at a I don't know, Cabela's or Bess
Speaker 1: pro shops, or I don't know, on the Mediator's store.
Speaker 1: You mentioned that you have got a farmer who helps
Speaker 1: playing your food plots and tells you what to plan.
Speaker 1: How can I get me one of those that would
Speaker 1: be very helpful? In all seriousness, how how did you
Speaker 1: go about, you know, developing a relationship with this person
Speaker 1: enough so that he would help you out? Because that
Speaker 1: is a huge thing I think for a lot of
Speaker 1: people that most probably aren't you know, able to either
Speaker 1: find somebody like that or have the confidence to ask
Speaker 1: for that kind of help. How did that come about
Speaker 1: for you? Guys? What's really worked well for us Mark
Speaker 1: is is actually getting these contacts through land agents in
Speaker 1: the area because they're talking to so many different farmers
Speaker 1: and they most of the time that's that's how we
Speaker 1: got our farmer. He's helping us um most of the time.
Speaker 1: They're pretty integrated to the area and they know who's
Speaker 1: going to be willing to help you out or um
Speaker 1: work some hourly rate out for you. So I would
Speaker 1: say land agents number one are farmer Kevin. He's I mean,
Speaker 1: he's awesome. He He also shows us things, which is
Speaker 1: like he has he has patients for us two year
Speaker 1: olds to like actually like dive into learning the equipment
Speaker 1: and why he's spraying this or why like how deep
Speaker 1: he's planned seeds, which is like a huge I mean
Speaker 1: huge help. But he's also just an avid white tail hunter.
Speaker 1: I asked him, I'm pretty sure his last year is like,
Speaker 1: how like, did you hunt as much of the season? Oh?
Speaker 1: I hunted every day. I was like, every day? Are
Speaker 1: you serious? Every day? And he's like, he's like a
Speaker 1: die hard. I think he does a lot of like
Speaker 1: traditional bow hanging. He literally hunted every day of the season.
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, that's that's awesome. Like he he also
Speaker 1: I mean if you hunt every day of the season,
Speaker 1: I mean, even if you hunt half the days in
Speaker 1: the season, you're gonna really know white chill as well.
Speaker 1: And so like he's coming at it with like a
Speaker 1: really white till my mind frame two. But yeah, we
Speaker 1: just got lucky with the land agent that helped us
Speaker 1: out with the property just knew him in the area UM,
Speaker 1: and so it was just like asking around. I think
Speaker 1: even just knocking on some doors on our neighbors were
Speaker 1: really fortunate. Even if we did have our buddy Kevin,
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's some neighbors in the area that we've
Speaker 1: created relationships with UM that would totally help us out
Speaker 1: that was one thing that we kind of haven't talked about.
Speaker 1: Like the second time we came down here, Tom Snyd
Speaker 1: went around to every school neighbor on the eight and
Speaker 1: knocked on doors and shook their hands and we're the
Speaker 1: new guys in town. It's nice to meet you. Um,
Speaker 1: that's kind of what we're about, and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: And just like having those relationships, getting some phone numbers
Speaker 1: here and there has i mean paid dividends. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I would just man reach out to anybody in the
Speaker 1: area because you'll they're out there. There's more there's more
Speaker 1: of them out there that can also lead to um
Speaker 1: different things down the road. Maybe they want to bail
Speaker 1: some like uh crp on your ground or anything like that.
Speaker 1: Um or or if you want to like have some
Speaker 1: cows roam around. Um. There's all different avenues that can
Speaker 1: lead in that relationship. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's hard to
Speaker 1: their state just how important that is. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: it's just a hard not to understand how important that
Speaker 1: is because there's not only everything you describe, but also
Speaker 1: just like all the weird things that can happen when
Speaker 1: you hunt next to other people and you know, deer
Speaker 1: crossing property lines or other people showing up, or just
Speaker 1: a million things that if you have a relationship, it
Speaker 1: makes so much easier to deal with. Um. The other day,
Speaker 1: we had a prescribed fire and it was at night,
Speaker 1: and I got text from like every single neighboring area.
Speaker 1: Like we we try to text a lot of the
Speaker 1: people that like the smoke would be going on too
Speaker 1: or something, just let him know. I was like, Man,
Speaker 1: if someday the eight starts lying on the fire, we're
Speaker 1: gonna have that taken care of because the neighbors are
Speaker 1: watching out for us. Yeah, And it was that was
Speaker 1: that night. Yea. So it's a great thing to have. Uh.
Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit more about the food
Speaker 1: because I mean, if there's if there's anything that deer
Speaker 1: hunting land managers like to geek out about its food plots.
Speaker 1: All right, Um, how how did that start for you?
Speaker 1: I know you had somebody there who had some experience
Speaker 1: who was able to help direct you guys and do
Speaker 1: a bunch of that. Um, but what do those first
Speaker 1: food plots look like? What did you guys choose? How
Speaker 1: did you plan you know, the shapes, the size, all
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. And then how has that changed
Speaker 1: over the last two and at three years Yeah, again
Speaker 1: it's like what did we see, Uh, what do we
Speaker 1: see the HP guys filming their bucks overs? Like, hey,
Speaker 1: we gotta do beans. We gotta do do what we
Speaker 1: see on the outdoor channel. So we did beans right away,
Speaker 1: and um we told Matt Ross that. We were like
Speaker 1: we're just gonna do We're gonna do beans in this
Speaker 1: big field. And he's like why, Like why would you
Speaker 1: do why would you do I was almost like taken back.
Speaker 1: We were like at breakfast drinking coffee and I just
Speaker 1: said like nonchaline, like, We're gonna do a bean food plot.
Speaker 1: He's like like, why would you do beans? Like like
Speaker 1: you're if you're going to manage just for for for deer,
Speaker 1: like do something like a little extra maybe, um, something
Speaker 1: that's that we won't find on every other property around
Speaker 1: that your neighbors have. But um, he wasn't like against it.
Speaker 1: He was just like he just was asking the question. Um.
Speaker 1: And we did end up doing beans um there, but
Speaker 1: we we definitely um kind of changed it up with
Speaker 1: our clover plot and braska game. We did. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: we did beans. All I don't know was it maybe
Speaker 1: three acre Our biggest plot is a three acre plot,
Speaker 1: three to four acres, and we did beans um both
Speaker 1: our first dand second year and then switched it up
Speaker 1: this year. But yeah, that first year we did all
Speaker 1: beans and then clover um in one small spot. And
Speaker 1: those beans that we did, we did stripped some Braska
Speaker 1: mixed in there, so you kind of had strips. It
Speaker 1: was kind of like you have ten feet of beans.
Speaker 1: But we had beans all through this summer, and then
Speaker 1: the fall, Kevin, our farmer, came through and like put
Speaker 1: a few, um a kind of late season um food
Speaker 1: plot stuff, so we had like peas in their winter pieas,
Speaker 1: and we had we had there's a Braska mix in there,
Speaker 1: um kind of stripped out in there. So that was it.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was basically we kind of just took
Speaker 1: like easy approach, like Okay, we don't really need to
Speaker 1: remove any timber, let's just do a big old food
Speaker 1: plow right here. Just I mean, I don't I mean,
Speaker 1: whether you can find beans on our property or other properties,
Speaker 1: like it's it's still a food source there right next
Speaker 1: to really good betting. So we just kind of went
Speaker 1: at that and what makes it um extra good for
Speaker 1: the deer on our ground is that we just we
Speaker 1: don't we obviously don't cut it. We just leave it
Speaker 1: standing all all through uh the fall, through the winter.
Speaker 1: So they definitely like hammered that December and January. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then Clover, we only had one clover plot that
Speaker 1: first year, and it was we had to do a
Speaker 1: lot of timber removal to find this clover plot. But
Speaker 1: it was kind of the we kind of went after
Speaker 1: with it being really easy to access um and then
Speaker 1: there's some really good um travel corridors through there UM
Speaker 1: and so that that kind of led us to it.
Speaker 1: Wasn't like we weren't I don't know if we made
Speaker 1: like the most knowledgeable decision. It's like it paid off
Speaker 1: because it's still a really good spot. But we were
Speaker 1: just kind of like, Okay, we need to remove quite
Speaker 1: a few trees, but it already looks like it's a
Speaker 1: really good travel route UM and be easy to get too.
Speaker 1: So that was kind of our our basis of Clover.
Speaker 1: And then we just know Clover is just an easy
Speaker 1: one to do. UM. We just had that first year,
Speaker 1: we had our farmer just till up that area, so
Speaker 1: we made a road back there and he tiled it
Speaker 1: up so we could just frost seed clover and it's
Speaker 1: been it's been a money plot for us the last
Speaker 1: few years. We haven't like shot a buck like in
Speaker 1: the clover, but we've we've shot mine this November like
Speaker 1: right next to it, and then it's just been it's
Speaker 1: been like dough Central. So like obviously if you have
Speaker 1: something that's like dough Central in the October November, then
Speaker 1: you start getting those bucks through there um. And so
Speaker 1: that's that's basically that was our first year and kind of,
Speaker 1: like Tom said earlier, that first year, we kind of
Speaker 1: just wanted to leave hands off, don't do anything like
Speaker 1: crazy on the management side, and just kind of see
Speaker 1: how the deer naturally used the property. So you throw
Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff at the wall. That year what
Speaker 1: stuck the best? I mean you mentioned that clover turned
Speaker 1: out great, but what what were the big lessons learned?
Speaker 1: I guess from that first year of trying those different things. Man.
Speaker 1: I I would say obviously like the food horses were huge,
Speaker 1: like we but are but would almost say like not
Speaker 1: as not as big as we thought they were going
Speaker 1: to be, And we're just starting to get there because
Speaker 1: bucks like nobody none of the deer knew that like
Speaker 1: associated the property with food because it had never really
Speaker 1: been there besides what was naturally there with the brows.
Speaker 1: But um, they just we would not have like crazy
Speaker 1: nights where the bean plots were just absolutely full like
Speaker 1: that just never happened. And we're just starting to get
Speaker 1: there because now it's been gosh, this will be our
Speaker 1: fourth spring that the fonds will have been born. So um,
Speaker 1: if you're a four year old deer, then you've known
Speaker 1: the eighty how we've how we've managed it. So we're
Speaker 1: starting to starting to get that that age class up
Speaker 1: from our ownership. But yeah, I would say honestly, the
Speaker 1: our second hunt ever on the eighty, Thomas shot a
Speaker 1: hundred fifty buck coming after the beans on October three,
Speaker 1: and I think that kind of ruined us for a
Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, Like I think it was like, oh
Speaker 1: my go gosh, yeah, this is this is this is
Speaker 1: what we're talking about, like Kansas, Like I'm like so
Speaker 1: pumped about this, and I mean, don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: it was like the best hunt ever. I mean there's
Speaker 1: a massive could for anyone. Like I think we shot
Speaker 1: him on a Wednesday or I think Wednesday and I
Speaker 1: think the Tuesday before was like ninety degrees and that
Speaker 1: day it was like forty, so like pulled front to
Speaker 1: the nines. You had a rainstorm that night, so like
Speaker 1: everything was like leading up to it. Um, And yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that evening a freaking the biggest buck. I
Speaker 1: mean Thomas had shot at that point, walked out in
Speaker 1: ten yards right to a scrape tree. We put up
Speaker 1: that evening and shot like hard shot and was like, man, like,
Speaker 1: this is it. This is all we have to do.
Speaker 1: And I think it like made us trust in like
Speaker 1: the food plot hunting too much. Um, definitely for the
Speaker 1: rest of that year, and then the next year was
Speaker 1: like we definitely had to like figure things out, kind
Speaker 1: of reset our minds, like, Okay, that did happen, but like,
Speaker 1: don't think it did because that's still like there are
Speaker 1: a lot of things that came up to that moment
Speaker 1: um that we're also going in our favorite besides just
Speaker 1: sitting in a tree on a bean edge and early tour.
Speaker 1: So it was that was definitely a good thing, but
Speaker 1: I think we also did put too much emphasis on
Speaker 1: the field. But um, those things definitely stuck. And then
Speaker 1: the I think one of the biggest things that stuck
Speaker 1: was just seeing how um the deer were using it.
Speaker 1: Having a full year of trail camp picks all over
Speaker 1: the property that we could analyze and all that stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say, Um, getting back to our goals, like
Speaker 1: what you asked earlier, Mark, we we did buy a
Speaker 1: little I would say, it's little, but it's just a
Speaker 1: like a twenty six inch mower that we basically um
Speaker 1: walked behind. And um having that and creating paths um
Speaker 1: was a huge, huge piece and they kind of already
Speaker 1: talked on it, like when we created a path, it
Speaker 1: became a highway. So figuring that out, Um, we had
Speaker 1: never really seen that happened before on anything else we've hunted,
Speaker 1: so UM, having that that little um walk behind more
Speaker 1: was was huge. Yeah, I mean to kind of paint
Speaker 1: the picture, like, so most of our eighty is like
Speaker 1: a hunt like crown closure, which means like it's basically
Speaker 1: all shaded. So then um, it's all shade and then
Speaker 1: like up to like up to your waist. Basically you've
Speaker 1: got buck brush, you have multi flour rows, mazoovery gooseberry,
Speaker 1: are there raspberry? So like I mean walking through anywhere,
Speaker 1: most of those things have thorns that are getting you,
Speaker 1: grabbing you, um, and like it's not trudging basically. So
Speaker 1: as soon as you mow like a path with like
Speaker 1: two inches of grass at the bottom, now, like that's
Speaker 1: why it becomes a highway because obviously do you want
Speaker 1: to use least resistance and stuff. UM. So we really
Speaker 1: realized that that was huge and we kind of hunted
Speaker 1: according to that. So did you end up changing how
Speaker 1: and where you mowed to get deer where you wanted them?
Speaker 1: Or did you just recognize, Okay, the paths that we're
Speaker 1: using where they are dy are start being used and
Speaker 1: then that changed where you hunted? Like s what I'm
Speaker 1: trying to say, did you change where you mode or
Speaker 1: did you change where you hunted because of that observation.
Speaker 1: We did a little bit of both. It kind of
Speaker 1: dependent in the area. We definitely mode certain areas after
Speaker 1: that first season to be able to UM because we
Speaker 1: knew we could hunt them easily and we knew they'd
Speaker 1: get used UM. But that also we did we did
Speaker 1: move some of our hunting spots to UM places that
Speaker 1: we already had mode that we realized we're just getting
Speaker 1: trampled on basically and also we did um, some of
Speaker 1: those mode areas we would we realized like, man, okay,
Speaker 1: this is getting like a ton of traffic. Um, let's
Speaker 1: move it a little bit more and add another clover plot.
Speaker 1: So like right now in two we have three clover
Speaker 1: plot for four clover plots now, um, so you can
Speaker 1: kind of see how that's expanded. Um, And that a
Speaker 1: lot of that came through mowing certain areas and kind
Speaker 1: of seeing where the deer wanted to go now that
Speaker 1: we had opened some areas up. Yes, so tell me
Speaker 1: more about that. So you know, on the food plot side,
Speaker 1: year one, you had the big food plot up front,
Speaker 1: you did some different things. Um. I'm sure over the
Speaker 1: years you've you've you've adjusted, you've tweaked, some things didn't
Speaker 1: work out, some things did. Where do things stand now
Speaker 1: with how you look at food and how you're putting
Speaker 1: in those food plots? Because I mean, even though you
Speaker 1: have a guy who's helping you put in these plots,
Speaker 1: you still have to pay him for his hourly works.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're trying to get more efficient and more
Speaker 1: cost effective with all of that. So where has has
Speaker 1: your several year long lesson taking you to now? What's
Speaker 1: it gonna look like here? In Yeah, so one of
Speaker 1: the first things Matt Ross Tolis was just because there's
Speaker 1: open canopy here does not mean that you should put
Speaker 1: a food plot here. And that kind of led us
Speaker 1: to um like deciding to not do a lot of
Speaker 1: work that first year. But yeah, from from first year
Speaker 1: to this management season, UM, we just we did put
Speaker 1: a couple of plots in where UM, we tested the
Speaker 1: soil and we thought it would be the best. Um,
Speaker 1: where did we find like those soil maps? With that
Speaker 1: trying to think about where we found those soil maps
Speaker 1: that UM Matt like Ross printed off a ton of
Speaker 1: things and gave it to us. UM I should ask him, um,
Speaker 1: but we got basically a map of what soil would
Speaker 1: be good. So we went off of those for the
Speaker 1: future years and UM, I guess just getting off what
Speaker 1: they said seeing about seeing where those dense travel areas were,
Speaker 1: we would start with doing timber work in those spots,
Speaker 1: and then then that was probably more. Year two is
Speaker 1: is let's let's work the timber around this area and
Speaker 1: maybe gets more sunlight and then see how they use it.
Speaker 1: And then year three was okay, let's burn this area
Speaker 1: now since there's been more sunlight UM and it's able
Speaker 1: to actually run fire through it. And then UM, this
Speaker 1: year has kind of turned into a great let's let's
Speaker 1: plan it with something, whether that's um, some warm season
Speaker 1: grasses we have or clover mix. Yeah, we're wanting to
Speaker 1: get into the more like natural just uh, let's just
Speaker 1: make the food sources that are naturally in the in
Speaker 1: the seed bank. Let's like just try to build those up.
Speaker 1: So that's why we're doing so much timber cutting, because UM,
Speaker 1: you have food plots are great, but we really want
Speaker 1: like the whole ady to just be a food source
Speaker 1: for these deer. UM. But I guess like one thing
Speaker 1: that's really transformer plots is not um just not being
Speaker 1: boxed in and also just like trying to get as
Speaker 1: many resources as possible. UM. We have one of our
Speaker 1: best plots. It's like basically smack middle of our ground. UM,
Speaker 1: really close like surrounded by good betting, but also like
Speaker 1: only a hundred yards yards from our big bean in
Speaker 1: corn plot that we rotate. UM. And Sean Lucto from
Speaker 1: Harland bow Hunter, we had him down to walk last
Speaker 1: year and he was like, Man, this area right here,
Speaker 1: it's already a little open, but this would be like
Speaker 1: primo for a nice transition pot of clover before they
Speaker 1: got out there. Um, so we've taken just these ideas
Speaker 1: from other land managers that they've really liked it and clover. Man,
Speaker 1: it's just so easy, Like that's I think why we
Speaker 1: just we we go to clover because um, obviously you
Speaker 1: could just frost see that, try to get some open
Speaker 1: soil on there, which we usually mow and then spray
Speaker 1: to try to kill that grass. Um yeah, if you're
Speaker 1: if you're able to spray it early, burn it and
Speaker 1: then frosted, I mean you can really cut out the farmer. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then basically are our most recent plot that we
Speaker 1: actually are just making this year. We have haven't hunted
Speaker 1: it just like in the works right now. Um, we
Speaker 1: were just it was it's in our southeast corner where
Speaker 1: we uh we shot two bucks right in this area.
Speaker 1: Actually we've shot three over the last three years within
Speaker 1: fifty yards of where we are making this plot. Because
Speaker 1: we're just like, man, they do so many different trails
Speaker 1: in this area. Let's just have like a tiny I mean,
Speaker 1: is it an eighth of an anchor? Maybe back there
Speaker 1: we're just like we just have a little clover right
Speaker 1: here just to stop them, like just get them to
Speaker 1: pause when they're coming through here, just have like a
Speaker 1: little destination before they go and chase the dough or
Speaker 1: go and bed down or something like that. So it's
Speaker 1: just been kind of learning where they want to be
Speaker 1: in adding that, so you talked about how much timber
Speaker 1: factored into things than year two and in these years since.
Speaker 1: That's another one of those deals that I think probably
Speaker 1: is maybe underutilized by new land managers because it seems
Speaker 1: a little bit harder or a little bit more intimidating.
Speaker 1: What was that like for you guys early on? Was
Speaker 1: that like, hey, let's just jump right into it, or
Speaker 1: were you a little bit like I don't know exactly
Speaker 1: what we're doing here? You were you were pretty ancy,
Speaker 1: almost too anty. Like looking back at it, I would
Speaker 1: have been like if I could go back in time
Speaker 1: and telling myself, like, you need to slow down and
Speaker 1: you need to go learn a bunch of things before
Speaker 1: you get into this, because um, it's definitely like definitely
Speaker 1: learning curb and like man, timber cutting can like not
Speaker 1: just scary, but like timber cutting can like put you
Speaker 1: in a bad way if you're not if you're not
Speaker 1: being safe about it just because you're dealing with um
Speaker 1: big heavy trees some of them have if you're if
Speaker 1: you're cutting a honeymocus like we have down here, they
Speaker 1: have three storms and so like just being like overly safe,
Speaker 1: I think, Um, it was definitely something I would tell
Speaker 1: my my previous self. But like we just we were
Speaker 1: Auntie his heck to just like start cutting different things.
Speaker 1: And we we really knew what timber we wanted to
Speaker 1: get rid of. We wanted to get rid of hedge
Speaker 1: locus um. We wanted to get rid of small wallnuts
Speaker 1: that weren't going to be any good for the timber market.
Speaker 1: And then we really wanted to open up our oaks um.
Speaker 1: We wanted to kind of we had different like tree
Speaker 1: species we wanted to hinge cut. We wanted to hinge
Speaker 1: cut some elms and things like that, and then some
Speaker 1: trees we just wanted to kill off. We wanted to
Speaker 1: kill off hickories um. And so we kind of just
Speaker 1: went through, we went to those management units and we're like,
Speaker 1: what do we need to get rid of here? And
Speaker 1: then we would just start getting rid of it and
Speaker 1: where we want to have more sunlight, and basically the
Speaker 1: whole lady could have more sunlight still to this day,
Speaker 1: it could have more sunlight basically everywhere. But we just
Speaker 1: kind of picked certain days and we would, UM, we
Speaker 1: would girdle cut the entire tree down or hinge cut
Speaker 1: depending on what which trio was or where it was, UM,
Speaker 1: and then we'd we'd spray it and just knock out
Speaker 1: some of those species. But I would almost say you
Speaker 1: can do more help to wildlife management with the chainsaw
Speaker 1: than you can with with a food plot, just because
Speaker 1: it does so much for other animals and species as well, um,
Speaker 1: all the birds and the property. Um. And then you've
Speaker 1: got to talk. You can think about all the all
Speaker 1: the food sources that are now getting sunlight. UM. One
Speaker 1: thing that said to us that really stuff was like
Speaker 1: right now and year one, we have all shade loving species.
Speaker 1: What you want is some loving species. And that like
Speaker 1: really man, that that triggers something to us. We were like, okay,
Speaker 1: we need way more sund to hit the force floor. Um.
Speaker 1: Even just this UM this shed shed hunting season, we
Speaker 1: we dropped a ton of timber this offseason again and
Speaker 1: in one of our timber cutting spots. I was doing
Speaker 1: some shed hunting around and sure enough I found the
Speaker 1: shed to the biggest buck we know that made it
Speaker 1: through literally in a pile of chainsaw dust that we
Speaker 1: had cut like a few ge people. So he's hanging
Speaker 1: out in this new servants and it's, uh, it's a
Speaker 1: good betting area. But also he has this new food
Speaker 1: source right now in Kansas, Like it's a little earlier
Speaker 1: for things to be butting up, but it's it's starting.
Speaker 1: The green up is about to happen. So you and
Speaker 1: that deer is probably betting in that area with the
Speaker 1: new cover or eating on some of those brows that
Speaker 1: that had been a hundred feet up in the air
Speaker 1: before this. And I mean that was just like a
Speaker 1: eye opening finger right there. So yeah, those are some
Speaker 1: of the biggest um cutting things we've done. You mentioned
Speaker 1: several different types of timberwork. Though there's taking down full trees,
Speaker 1: it was hinge cutting, there was girdling. How did you
Speaker 1: guys go about you know, how are you choosing where
Speaker 1: to use each one of those different tools or when
Speaker 1: or how big of an area, like, how did you
Speaker 1: go about making those decisions? Yeah, it really just depends
Speaker 1: on the true. So if the tree leaves, which is
Speaker 1: what the deer. Okay, so deer really tree leads orderly
Speaker 1: like a fruit, so like an a corner or something
Speaker 1: like that. Um. And so basically it went off that
Speaker 1: decision knowing like, okay, um, some of these leaves the
Speaker 1: deer will eat and some of them they don't really
Speaker 1: care for. So that was that was a big thing. UM.
Speaker 1: And other other trees like a hedge tree, you basically,
Speaker 1: I mean at least the hedge trees on our ground.
Speaker 1: You can't really cut the whole tree down. It's kind
Speaker 1: of they're so like big and just entangled and massive
Speaker 1: that in the heart in the woods so hard that
Speaker 1: it's basically like, okay, we need to um these puppies
Speaker 1: to try to kill them, which girdling is like just
Speaker 1: killing the outer can be in layer and then we'll
Speaker 1: spray it um, which will kill the tree. But you
Speaker 1: don't have to cut it down because once you cut
Speaker 1: the tree down, man, you can just cover it up
Speaker 1: a tone of ground and then you have a ton
Speaker 1: more work to do. So we're like, let's kill some
Speaker 1: of these trees without covering up the entire having a
Speaker 1: huge footprint on the ground, and then other trees say like, um,
Speaker 1: we know like elms, dear love to tell you ton elm.
Speaker 1: So we just hinge cut those things in certain areas
Speaker 1: that we want deer to like have food source. So
Speaker 1: it hinge cut, which basically like we're we're hinge cutting
Speaker 1: on these small trees and we can basically cut the
Speaker 1: tree through and then push them over with our hands.
Speaker 1: So it's like a I don't know, a six inch
Speaker 1: diameter tree or less, and so that will that will
Speaker 1: create a food source, and we know, what do you
Speaker 1: like that food source? And then I don't know. Um,
Speaker 1: so other ones cedars we just would get rid of
Speaker 1: because we don't want them to be too thick. Um,
Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to just that that like a
Speaker 1: dispersed area. I would say, um, gosh, if it was
Speaker 1: a big like a tree like eighteen inches in diameter,
Speaker 1: a bigger, we're almost always just girdling it because um
Speaker 1: one that like just starts the dyeing process with that tree.
Speaker 1: And uh, those some of those first trees that we girdle. Um,
Speaker 1: we've been starting to cut down and there's so much
Speaker 1: easier to manage. And um, if like we found out
Speaker 1: really quickly. If we dropped a big tree, um, we
Speaker 1: weren't getting very much done in the day. So girdling
Speaker 1: is just the easy quick way. It doesn't um kill
Speaker 1: all the shade, but it does the pretty dang good
Speaker 1: job for really, I don't know, two minutes, uh two
Speaker 1: minute cut around the tree. Yeah, and uh we're actually
Speaker 1: on our property this uh the next two days because
Speaker 1: we're we're just uh dropping a ton of timber in
Speaker 1: little betting pockets that we want. Now. Now that we
Speaker 1: have our kind of our food plots established on the property,
Speaker 1: we're just gonna cut them basically where the wind would
Speaker 1: be good for us hunting and then also for accessing
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. So it's just getting the sunlight
Speaker 1: there and then opening up those areas. Um. And then
Speaker 1: you just kind of have to learn with species you
Speaker 1: have in the property, which one you should keep around,
Speaker 1: which ones you should hear it of. Um. This last year,
Speaker 1: we've actually cut down a few oaks because in our
Speaker 1: oak area they're just two cluttered so they're not really
Speaker 1: producing them many acorns. So it's kind of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I have to cut some some oaks down in order
Speaker 1: to really have healthy oaks. So it's been just a
Speaker 1: learning curve on which ones we want to keep round
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. What's the biggest um lesson you've
Speaker 1: learned on the timber side of things four years in now? Um,
Speaker 1: is there anything that you would like to go back
Speaker 1: and tell, you know, twenty nineteen Natan Thomas about that
Speaker 1: might have made things happen faster or better? Has anything
Speaker 1: come to mind? Yeah? Right away, I would say, what's
Speaker 1: really only begin to hit Like in starting year four, Um,
Speaker 1: we would cut down like a handful of trees in
Speaker 1: a in a unit and be like, man, we did
Speaker 1: so much work. In reality, I wish my self would
Speaker 1: have known to like make it make this whatever like
Speaker 1: one like one eighth acre area, like cut it all,
Speaker 1: cut like cut most of the most to all the
Speaker 1: trees in that area, because that's when you're actually gonna
Speaker 1: see noticeable changes. We'd see like we dropped a couple
Speaker 1: of trees or girl a couple here. And while yeah,
Speaker 1: sure I was starting to get to a better unit, UM,
Speaker 1: we didn't really find out till the last last year
Speaker 1: that um, it took quite a bit of really opening
Speaker 1: up an area to get that sun really to the
Speaker 1: forest floor because as the sun is like rotating throughout
Speaker 1: the day. Um, it's really only in that if you
Speaker 1: don't cut a ton in the area, it's really only
Speaker 1: on that the little sun spot for a little a
Speaker 1: little bit of time. So um, cutting cutting more than less,
Speaker 1: I would say, and then just patients. Still to this day,
Speaker 1: we have to amount ourselves that there is a tone
Speaker 1: of timber, like you could you could cut timber every
Speaker 1: single day and like still have a ton of timber
Speaker 1: out here. So just being patient and also just just
Speaker 1: absorbing it um and just making it um, just making
Speaker 1: it a thing that you look forward to instead of
Speaker 1: just like a job or task that you're trying to
Speaker 1: trying to get done with, because it can drive you
Speaker 1: crazy when you cut for ten hours a day and
Speaker 1: then you just do walk out and be like, man,
Speaker 1: there's so much more that needs to be changed. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's just it's just gonna be a long
Speaker 1: term thing. I mean, this property still won't be exactly
Speaker 1: what we want in ten years. But that's just it's
Speaker 1: it's a it's a constant progression. Basically, there's there's certain
Speaker 1: like there's certain areas in the property room like man,
Speaker 1: like we have we have areas of hedge that are
Speaker 1: completely unpassable. Like it's like, man, how are we ever
Speaker 1: gonna make change in that area? But just a little
Speaker 1: by little tree by tree, um, And that's yeah, that's
Speaker 1: that's a basic thing we've learned. So food plots first,
Speaker 1: cutting tree second. Third. I know you mentioned that fire
Speaker 1: was the next big step you guys took. How did
Speaker 1: you learn to safely use fire? Like? What was that
Speaker 1: process like? And then what have those prescribed burns been
Speaker 1: like to actually manage and be a part of. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So again, our farmer buddy Kevin that first year, he
Speaker 1: was like, you want to do a fire, And we're like,
Speaker 1: want to do a fire? So he brought the drip
Speaker 1: torches and we kind of talked to some lines and
Speaker 1: stuff like that where we wanted to fire, to go
Speaker 1: in direction, humidity, all that stuff. Um Man, that's a
Speaker 1: That's another thing. If I'd go back in time, I
Speaker 1: would definitely do things different. I would how would have
Speaker 1: way more hands on deck because no matter how protected
Speaker 1: your fire is, no matter how good your lines are,
Speaker 1: like being like new with fires, so it's going to
Speaker 1: scare the hell out of you, like watching your beloved
Speaker 1: ground just like just go to ten foot flames on
Speaker 1: certain areas. IS's just like, wow, Okay, I hope that stops.
Speaker 1: Um things like that. But it's basically just like being
Speaker 1: overly safe. Um, that's that's the biggest thing. The nice thing.
Speaker 1: Like what we talked about. On the west side of
Speaker 1: our property, it's all road, big gravel road, so I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: it's not going there. And then through our property we
Speaker 1: have to creek, so I was like, okay, it's not
Speaker 1: going there. You basically got to worry about it. It's
Speaker 1: like going out to the neighbors in the north and south.
Speaker 1: So usually try to burn with like an east or
Speaker 1: west wind and then have some really good burn lines
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But just being overly safe to
Speaker 1: where like you can be confident like, Okay, even if
Speaker 1: the winds for gusts in twenty miles and the humanity
Speaker 1: was ten percent, it's going nowhere. That's like, that's like
Speaker 1: being just being overly safe. But I would say, um,
Speaker 1: one of the biggest things that I it took me
Speaker 1: forever to my head around, was like, how the heck
Speaker 1: with all this shade, how are we going to get
Speaker 1: any fire through our timber which it was always like
Speaker 1: good to burn the like brom and and hot the
Speaker 1: warm grasses. But really to make change in our eight
Speaker 1: we wanted to get the end timber burns. And only
Speaker 1: like this year do we really like wrap our hand
Speaker 1: head around, like what do we really need to see
Speaker 1: in the weather front moving forward to get a good
Speaker 1: productive burn, And um, we finally got I don't know,
Speaker 1: we probably burnt eights ten acres in the timber this year,
Speaker 1: which we like maybe done like a a quarter of
Speaker 1: that in the past, and just it really just comes
Speaker 1: down to having higher high enough wind speed and low
Speaker 1: enough humidity to to do that burn. Some some some
Speaker 1: of those days are um are like quote unquote like
Speaker 1: risky days to burn, um because of the low humidity.
Speaker 1: But if you have really really good fire fire breaks, um,
Speaker 1: it's some of the only days you can burn if
Speaker 1: you're in a really really shaded area. And and girdling
Speaker 1: and dropping trees has only only helped the fuel source
Speaker 1: on the e d So Fells. The first time landowner,
Speaker 1: I'd be I'd be making sure that there's more sun
Speaker 1: eating the ground if I plan on doing a burn
Speaker 1: in year two. And um, just knowing being with people
Speaker 1: that know what they're doing and what's to look out
Speaker 1: for on the weather. I think we're talking to the
Speaker 1: land leg sea guys and they're like, man, if you
Speaker 1: have a hard time like finding people that will help
Speaker 1: you out to burn, just go to the local fire
Speaker 1: department and see if you can find some guys that
Speaker 1: would volunteer, like a few hours of their time. Because
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're volunteering at a firefighter, they're like, okay,
Speaker 1: you either like you either maybe board some days or
Speaker 1: you're like your your pyro, like you want to burn stuff.
Speaker 1: So he's like, go go to the local fire departments
Speaker 1: and I bet you can find a handful of guys
Speaker 1: that would help you know, know what they're doing with fire,
Speaker 1: and then also just be able to be more hands
Speaker 1: on deck. Um. But yeah, every fire, we have UM
Speaker 1: burn lines around the entire circumference of what we are burning,
Speaker 1: and then we have um tons of water. We got
Speaker 1: a bunch of like high power leaf blowers that will
Speaker 1: put up fire, we have drift torches, UM and a
Speaker 1: ton of guys trying to help us out. So that's
Speaker 1: the I think. I think the biggest mistake you can
Speaker 1: make with fire is like rushing into it in a day. Um,
Speaker 1: like not having your fire breaks all all in the clear, um,
Speaker 1: all all set. That's like the biggest thing that would
Speaker 1: have warned about, Like just have everything ready to go,
Speaker 1: whether you're doing that in January and then you burn
Speaker 1: it in in February or March. Um, definitely have everything set.
Speaker 1: Don't ever like just light a fire thinking it's hopefully
Speaker 1: gonna gonna be a good situation. Yeah, And the feedback
Speaker 1: from that has also been amazing, Like the turkeys on
Speaker 1: the fire, just they love that stuff. Um. And just
Speaker 1: so the different plants and stuff that have come out
Speaker 1: of that has been really interesting to see. Um. The
Speaker 1: same day I found the shed angler this offseason, um
Speaker 1: from the biggest buck we have hanging around by a
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff, by a bunch of timber that we
Speaker 1: we felt in the property. We did was the day
Speaker 1: after we did a prescribe burn, And when I was
Speaker 1: walking to go get the u TV, I bumped like
Speaker 1: fifteen turkeys off off of the burn that we did
Speaker 1: the day before. So I'm like, man, this stuff has
Speaker 1: like sometimes it feels like this management is such a
Speaker 1: slow process. But within like those like few hours I
Speaker 1: found a shed by a bunch of timber we dropped,
Speaker 1: and I've just found ten or fifteen turkeys off of
Speaker 1: a fresh burn we did the day before. And like, man,
Speaker 1: when you make change and you just stirred the property,
Speaker 1: you are going to see the changes for sure. So
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you kind of just answered it.
Speaker 1: But would you say that even though this prescribed fire,
Speaker 1: those projects, I mean, as you're describing them, it's it's
Speaker 1: a good amount of work. It takes special care and preparation.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a lot for the average person to
Speaker 1: try to do. Is it worth all that headache? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean the hunting on our little track of eighty
Speaker 1: acres has has only gotten better. And like it's just
Speaker 1: in like we have been managing through our brains. We
Speaker 1: always say that everybody, we managed the property way more
Speaker 1: than we hunted, like way more. Um, and it has
Speaker 1: just been I mean, our church population in our area
Speaker 1: has like boomed, and then you can't like just say
Speaker 1: it's our eighty acres, but like it has to have
Speaker 1: been helping. I mean when we were here our first frame,
Speaker 1: you couldn't hear gal And I mean we've I mean
Speaker 1: last year we called in a group of eight toms
Speaker 1: to our ground. And so it's like, Okay, how much
Speaker 1: can it change? How much can our eight change in
Speaker 1: the in the grand scheme of things and stuff. But
Speaker 1: it's like, man, you gotta you just have to think
Speaker 1: as a land manager that like every little thing you're
Speaker 1: doing is making a difference. Um, I mean this last
Speaker 1: year in our in our timber, and we're also learning
Speaker 1: to hunt it better, but just with the management stuff,
Speaker 1: I mean, we had a series of hunts. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean we saw at least at three and half real
Speaker 1: bucker better like six seven, eight hunts in a row,
Speaker 1: and that that just that just shows you, man, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we have eighty acres, but we are seeing good deer
Speaker 1: every single hunt. So they want to be here like that.
Speaker 1: So that's just like I mean, like and even like
Speaker 1: turkeys being in the in the burn the next day,
Speaker 1: like they know changes happening and they want to be
Speaker 1: there and they're gonna be there. So man, if even
Speaker 1: if you own ten twenty acres, implement as much as
Speaker 1: you can of this stuff because they will in our
Speaker 1: in our view, in our opinion, it's making fast, fast difference.
Speaker 1: What's the most satisfying part of this kind of work,
Speaker 1: this project in general. Is it just the better deer hunting?
Speaker 1: Is it? Is it the better wildlife sightings? Is it
Speaker 1: just the act of doing it? I mean, what is
Speaker 1: it about this that's been the most rewarding for it? Well,
Speaker 1: that's a tough question. I mean, I mean definitely, Uh,
Speaker 1: deer hunting has been a huge thing. Um. Like there's
Speaker 1: there's a few deer um that we've killed in the
Speaker 1: last I would say the last two years. The first
Speaker 1: year was basically just dumblok. I feel like, um, just
Speaker 1: being on a good property. Where do you want to
Speaker 1: be nashurally eight um in killing deer. For the last
Speaker 1: two years we have killed deer because of how we
Speaker 1: manage UM. The what was when we had Spencer new
Speaker 1: hearth obviously to the ground and he he shot an
Speaker 1: awesome buck in our late um late season still standing
Speaker 1: beans um. And that's why something as land mamager just
Speaker 1: like leave food out there. Um. And he came out
Speaker 1: of an area that we had dropped a bunch of
Speaker 1: timber and we knew like that was really good betting
Speaker 1: and so that's like, okay, they're gonna bed there. You
Speaker 1: have late season food source. I mean I see that
Speaker 1: as like, Okay, yeah, Spencer's rifle killed that deer, But
Speaker 1: that's management in the offseason that killed that deer. Um.
Speaker 1: And then you also look at like this last December,
Speaker 1: we Thomas killed a buck December eighteen, and then our
Speaker 1: brother in law Tony killed him on the twenty nine.
Speaker 1: And so we killed two late season December bucks in
Speaker 1: the timber. They weren't on the food plot um, and
Speaker 1: were in the standing crops. They were in the timber
Speaker 1: where we had drop trees, created sunlight, really warm betting
Speaker 1: for a cold December day, and food sources that the
Speaker 1: deer wanted to eat. Um. And so man like those
Speaker 1: deer like, that's that's the land management is killing those deer.
Speaker 1: So like like that has been probably some of the
Speaker 1: most rewarding stuff. I don't know, Tom, you have any Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I I would say it's when December thirty one, because
Speaker 1: that's that's the last day year in Kansas to shoot buck.
Speaker 1: When it flips over to January one, it's it's really
Speaker 1: honestly not a depressing day. Um. Towards those last days
Speaker 1: of December, you're almost like looking forward to management season
Speaker 1: because um, you're just like the tens and the stress
Speaker 1: from the season is just all lifted and now it's
Speaker 1: the pressure that we all put on ourselves. But it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: now I can go walk around the eighty. This is
Speaker 1: gonna be fun. Like I've done this like ten times
Speaker 1: since owning it in three years because we're is always
Speaker 1: so so careful about it. But gosh, just the just
Speaker 1: the cycle, I would say, the cycle of deer hunting
Speaker 1: and what it brings um each each different season, whether
Speaker 1: it's management, shed season, UM, scouting season, velvet season, UM,
Speaker 1: the fall. It's just it's this, It's this cycle that
Speaker 1: you just love. What do you not like? Well, like,
Speaker 1: what when you when you look at what all the
Speaker 1: different things that this kind of project entails, what are
Speaker 1: the parts that suck? What are the parts that make
Speaker 1: you think, gosh, some days I wish it took a
Speaker 1: golfing or something else. I don't know. Is there anything
Speaker 1: that stands out there is um and that is still
Speaker 1: I don't know. When you when you get the text
Speaker 1: that you're definitely the two underninch bucket shot by the neighbor,
Speaker 1: that that's never good. But no, like that's like that
Speaker 1: was the most frustrating thing. The first two years we
Speaker 1: had like massive um Kansas buck in this place and
Speaker 1: we couldn't like we're still figuring out our hunting strategies here,
Speaker 1: and we I mean we left slip through our fingers.
Speaker 1: Looking back on that, it's like, Okay, give us that
Speaker 1: deer this year, because that deer is done for just
Speaker 1: because we've learned how to hunt it better. But no, like,
Speaker 1: in all seriousness, even that's great. I mean that's Nebraska
Speaker 1: boys that didn't want any property were like, oh man,
Speaker 1: chasing deer that are way bigger than we ever thought
Speaker 1: we'd see. It is just amazing. But we honestly, every
Speaker 1: day down here is like a drink of true whether
Speaker 1: I'm going into the stand on November one or I'm
Speaker 1: ripping the saw January feverory time frame. Um man, it's
Speaker 1: just every single day is great. I don't care hard
Speaker 1: to work like we work ourselves way too our most days.
Speaker 1: You don't need launch words out there just hammering away.
Speaker 1: Um And so it's just like I don't know whether
Speaker 1: you're just sweating like crazy in the summer and putting
Speaker 1: I mean, I've we've had some seriously long and tough
Speaker 1: days out here. But it's just the whether you're driving
Speaker 1: home after it or you're just hanging out of the
Speaker 1: property and just likes, howd you put in a full
Speaker 1: day of work. It's just rewarding every single day, no
Speaker 1: matter what you're doing. So, I don't know if there's
Speaker 1: a I don't know if it's a bad I can't
Speaker 1: I can't think of anything. Yeah, So you're driving down
Speaker 1: the road and you come around the corner, come over
Speaker 1: a bridge you dropped down towards a nice creek, and
Speaker 1: you see two guys standing off the side of the road,
Speaker 1: their trucks parked off there. They've got Camo boots on.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're pulling an STUV or not SUV, a u
Speaker 1: TV off the trailer. And you pull off the side
Speaker 1: next to him and start chatting with him, and they
Speaker 1: tell you, hey, you know, we just bought this forty
Speaker 1: acres here. It's been a dream. We finally were able
Speaker 1: to afford it. We went on it together. Whatever it is,
Speaker 1: we're gonna try to make this thing into a great
Speaker 1: place to hunt. You've got a minute, you have one
Speaker 1: minute before you need to hit the road again and
Speaker 1: get back to your family's What would be the very
Speaker 1: most important thing you could leave with those two guys
Speaker 1: if you had just that minute to share with them
Speaker 1: the most distilled bit of wisdom you've gained over the
Speaker 1: last four years. What would you tell him, Okay, this
Speaker 1: is Nate. First, I'll give him my manute. You talkic.
Speaker 1: You can get yours in after this. Okay. First of all,
Speaker 1: location is huge. I was I was going to Iowa
Speaker 1: and I was going to Kansas because I wanted to
Speaker 1: find a property where i'd kill a big baby. Isn't Yes,
Speaker 1: they're there, So I'm like, I'd shake their hands to
Speaker 1: the congrats guys, like, Okay, it's a good area because
Speaker 1: in our first year, we're like, we had a buck,
Speaker 1: and then our next year we had a two hundred
Speaker 1: and fifteen two interchange buck that we were chasing. So
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, we picked we picked the right area.
Speaker 1: So my guys, great job, you picked the right area. Secondly,
Speaker 1: I'd be like, Okay, Um, I don't know how much
Speaker 1: work do you want to put in here, but if
Speaker 1: you want to like really manage this wealth of properties,
Speaker 1: I'd go to your local dealer and I'd buy um
Speaker 1: a couple of nice chainsaws. I'd buy a more and
Speaker 1: then I'd start knocking on doors and introducing yourself to
Speaker 1: the neighbors. Just get to know the area, get to
Speaker 1: know the farmers in the area, and have fun. Guys.
Speaker 1: All right, that's a good minute. Oh man, I think
Speaker 1: I would uh might would be might would be much
Speaker 1: uh much less complex than they. I would just look
Speaker 1: him in the eye and tell him to to enjoy
Speaker 1: every like, every single minute of it, because sometimes I
Speaker 1: guess it could be a downside of being in the
Speaker 1: hunting industry, But there are sometimes when I'm just like, like,
Speaker 1: we just went down to the eight and that was
Speaker 1: that was the work trip. That wasn't a fun hunting trip.
Speaker 1: We need to we need to slow down, and we
Speaker 1: need to enjoy this property for the really the reason
Speaker 1: we purchased it, which is being, um spending time on it,
Speaker 1: being around the wildlife, but ultimately being around our family
Speaker 1: and um, I think just not not taking the management
Speaker 1: and everything that you have professionally going on too seriously
Speaker 1: when you're on your ground, just just enjoy for for
Speaker 1: what it is and and bring the people down there
Speaker 1: that you want to have a fun time with. So
Speaker 1: months months simple and not even really deer hunting and related.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I love it. So what's next? What do
Speaker 1: you guys see as the the things you're most excited
Speaker 1: to work on next or that you think are going
Speaker 1: to make the biggest difference in the coming year. Two?
Speaker 1: What's really getting you excited to see? What's gonna happen? Man?
Speaker 1: We uh, I don't know, Like like obviously we've done
Speaker 1: all of like we've done insane amount of timber work
Speaker 1: this year, so like, okay, that's gonna be better hopefully
Speaker 1: just more do you want to be here? But as
Speaker 1: far as like I'll just go on, like the hunting
Speaker 1: side of things, Um, we're just kind of waiting for
Speaker 1: like that really uh next big deer to chase. That's
Speaker 1: kind of been like our anti thing this last year. Um,
Speaker 1: it was like kind of a weird hunting year for
Speaker 1: us on the eight at least, like I was kind
Speaker 1: of saying all years prior, like we had a lot
Speaker 1: of big deer to chase at least one or two
Speaker 1: biggest again and the natural cycle of a big deer
Speaker 1: coming through. We just had one of those like off
Speaker 1: years last year, which is three and a half year
Speaker 1: olds just everywhere just gosh, hate to ten different ones
Speaker 1: just um hundred and twenty hundred and fifty three and
Speaker 1: a half ruld maybe a four and a half yoruld
Speaker 1: in there, um and like and I mean it was
Speaker 1: amazing because we're seeing like those deer every single time.
Speaker 1: But like now we're kind of licking our lips just
Speaker 1: waiting for like another um big stud to give us
Speaker 1: an opportunity to hunt it, just because we have kind
Speaker 1: of figured out the hunting and the managing side of
Speaker 1: things well enough where like we feel like we might
Speaker 1: have a shot at it. Of course, it's a big,
Speaker 1: smart deer and they'll price, they'll get the best of us.
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, we're kind of this way at least
Speaker 1: I'm waiting for like that next big one to show
Speaker 1: up to be able to put these things the use again. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we also thought it would be a kind
Speaker 1: of a fun idea. We haven't we haven't finalized this yet,
Speaker 1: but we thought would be fun if one of us
Speaker 1: hunted public the whole fall and one of us hunted
Speaker 1: the eighty Um we have public, I mean a couple
Speaker 1: of different parcels within five mile radios, so we were
Speaker 1: thinking to be kind of fun to split up the fall.
Speaker 1: One of us is hunting the public, one of us
Speaker 1: is hunting the ore a seeing you can tell you
Speaker 1: out first if if having private land is really that
Speaker 1: big of a advantage or not so so, if the
Speaker 1: public land guy kills a better deer than the private
Speaker 1: land guy, what's the reward he gets? Does he get to, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you got you got drag all of
Speaker 1: the deer for the next five years or something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe he's gonna be a cameraman for a while. I
Speaker 1: don't know. That's yeah, that's awesome. Well, where can where
Speaker 1: can folks go to see this? I know you guys
Speaker 1: have been documenting what you've done so far. Can you
Speaker 1: fill everyone in on on where they can find these
Speaker 1: videos that you have done so far and how they
Speaker 1: can stay up to date. Yeah, so you can watch
Speaker 1: a lot of our Kans eight Lanes Serry stuff on
Speaker 1: our YouTube channel, which was just identical draw you can
Speaker 1: wash the shoot that buck over the beans, Spencer's hunt,
Speaker 1: and then we also filmed like our whole conversation with
Speaker 1: mat Ross where you can see us breaking down all
Speaker 1: the different management units there. So um, you can basically
Speaker 1: see everything we've talked about on that YouTube channel, and
Speaker 1: and Stiff for another public land haunts that we've done,
Speaker 1: and gosh, Nebraska's Outdakota to the Western States. Um, we
Speaker 1: try to put out just a lot of knowledgeable stuff
Speaker 1: as well, just like if you are wanting to learn
Speaker 1: how to cut certain things or whatnot. Hopefully we put
Speaker 1: out information that is useful to people learning how to
Speaker 1: whether it's a girdle cut, hinch cut, how we make
Speaker 1: little betting pockets, why we put food plots in certain areas,
Speaker 1: how we're accessing. So we we really try to break
Speaker 1: down our eight as much as possible on the hunting
Speaker 1: and the managing side on all our social channels. So yeah, awesome. Well,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you guys sharing this experience. It's it's pretty
Speaker 1: fun to hear about, you know, what a couple of
Speaker 1: young guys can do with some sweat, some stick, tuativeness
Speaker 1: and uh and a good attitude. So I can't wait
Speaker 1: to see what happens next on the Kansas City. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's more appreciate. Thank you. All right, that's it for today.
Speaker 1: Thank you for tuning in. Get out there if you
Speaker 1: own land and get your hands dirty, get to work.
Speaker 1: If Nayton Thomas can do it, you can too. And
Speaker 1: if you do not own land, but it's something you
Speaker 1: thought about, or if your family is thinking about going
Speaker 1: down this road, I hope you'll pass along this episode,
Speaker 1: share it, let other people be inspired by and remember
Speaker 1: that it is possible. So without all out of the way,
Speaker 1: thank you and until next time, stay wired, don't