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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of I Saw What

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Speaker 1: You Did. My name is Millie to Jericho.

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Speaker 2: I'm Daniel Henderson, and this is the.

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Speaker 1: Greatest film podcast in the entire world. I'm so excited.

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Speaker 2: Make no bones about it. We're not even pretending anymore

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Speaker 2: that we're not. Why have humility at this point, we

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Speaker 2: know we're great.

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Speaker 1: Jump on board, and I'm sorry for that because I'm

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Speaker 1: just so excited. We've got this really cool show. We've

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Speaker 1: got this really cool guest. I want to just jump

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Speaker 1: right in. Is that cool?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Please please do it?

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Speaker 1: Well cool. So we are really stoked because anytime we

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Speaker 1: get to bring a filmmaker on the podcast, it's the treats.

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Speaker 1: And not only that, we've got this really amazing female

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Speaker 1: filmmaker who who has done amazing work in the horror genre,

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Speaker 1: which we've talked about before. Women making horror films is

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Speaker 1: so fucking cool and amazing. So we are just gonna

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Speaker 1: have a little chat and I have a feeling it's

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Speaker 1: gonna evolve into a game, which I'm super excited about.

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Speaker 1: So our guest today is a producer, director, and writer

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Speaker 1: who's based in Calgary, Alberta that's in Canada.

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Speaker 2: For all you don't know.

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Speaker 1: She's a competitive snowboarder. She has an MFA in Film

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Speaker 1: directing from Columbia University. She's produced award winning short films.

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Speaker 1: She's dragged herself and her camera over intense terrain while

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Speaker 1: working as an assistant for documentary and experimental filmmakers. And

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Speaker 1: she recently wrote, produced, and directed the horror field film

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Speaker 1: Dark Nature. And she's also an I saw what she

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Speaker 1: did pod listener, and we're so excited to have her on.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast, Berkeley Brady, how are you.

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Speaker 3: I'm very well, extra well because I'm here.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Thank you so much. This is

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Speaker 2: incredibly exciting for us. I mean, we're recluses in our

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Speaker 2: normal life, but we're also recluses in that we don't

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Speaker 2: usually have a lot of guests on the pod. We're

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Speaker 2: very selective about it. And I just think that you're

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Speaker 2: the best, and I love your film and i'd just

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Speaker 2: love your I mean, you have one of the best

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Speaker 2: bios your production company, Nica Productions. Everyone should go to

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Speaker 2: that website and check it out. It's one of the

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Speaker 2: best bios I've ever read. It's like usually when you

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Speaker 2: read a bio, you come away being like, yeah, but

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Speaker 2: who is this person? Like, what the shit is this?

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Speaker 2: I feel like I know you when I read your bios.

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Speaker 2: So very accomplished, very cool. I'm very lucky, were very

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Speaker 2: lucky that we get to talk with you today.

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Speaker 3: H thank you, guys. I cannot believe that you feel

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Speaker 3: that way. I'm so happy. I'm just gonna like replay

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Speaker 3: this because honestly surreal, because like I was saying, like

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Speaker 3: I listened to you guys so much, and during the

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Speaker 3: shooting of Dark Nature, it was just such a hard

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Speaker 3: shoot at times. And I remember driving one day, you know,

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Speaker 3: up at four thirty on like four and a half

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Speaker 3: hours of sleep, driving to the set, and I just

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Speaker 3: did not want to go to the set. I was like,

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Speaker 3: if I could not go, I wouldn't, But you have

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Speaker 3: to go.

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Speaker 2: When you're the director, producer, and writer, you can you

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Speaker 2: have to go.

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Speaker 3: And honestly, I was like, well, a new pod, a

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Speaker 3: new I saw what you did came on and at

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Speaker 3: least I can like listen to that. So that got

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Speaker 3: me in the car.

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Speaker 2: Oh, oh my goodness, I'm so excited about that. And

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Speaker 2: we'll start doing like personalized pods for you if you

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Speaker 2: need fum set like pump up jams.

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Speaker 3: Like a peloton for like filmmakers, like you need to

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Speaker 3: feel this today.

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Speaker 1: Write it down. We love business ideas. Write it down, email,

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Speaker 1: email it to.

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Speaker 2: Yourself, you feel it to yourself, put it in the end. Well,

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Speaker 2: but that actually brings up a good question because we've

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Speaker 2: you know, we've both watched obviously your incredible film Dark Nature,

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Speaker 2: and now that you're talking about kind of going to

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Speaker 2: the set and how tough it is to kind of

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Speaker 2: bring yourself to the set. One thing that I definitely

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Speaker 2: wanted to ask is, like, how what is your relationship

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Speaker 2: to movies when you're making them? So for example, like

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Speaker 2: when I'm writing a TV show, I don't really watch

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Speaker 2: a lot of TV. When I'm writing books, I don't

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Speaker 2: read a lot of books. But what is your relationship

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Speaker 2: to film when you're in it? Because it is a

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Speaker 2: really hard process and you you kind of gravitate towards

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Speaker 2: making particularly difficult films, like they're always like they're in

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Speaker 2: nature and they're always kind of like you put yourself

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Speaker 2: in a precarious place already just with the topic and

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Speaker 2: the subject of your film. So how does that impact,

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Speaker 2: Like do you wind down with a movie when you

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Speaker 2: go home, is it like, nope, I'll do that in

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Speaker 2: three months.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I think there's such different hats that I

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Speaker 3: wear when I'm writing and directing. And it feels really

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Speaker 3: nice when the writer hat really comes up and I'm directing,

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Speaker 3: because directing is so much more immediate, whereas with writing,

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Speaker 3: you can you know, you're always rewriting, you're always thinking

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Speaker 3: about it, and there's every adjustment you make in a

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Speaker 3: script could affect something else, which oh there goes you know,

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Speaker 3: ten hours of your life that you had built that

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Speaker 3: now that needs to come out, find the pages. So

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Speaker 3: it's so heady, whereas directing is just so physical. And

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Speaker 3: so when I was directing Dark Nature, I think the

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Speaker 3: days were just really long, plus the travel, plus I

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Speaker 3: was pregnant.

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Speaker 2: So oh my god.

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Speaker 3: So I was just like okay, Like also I was.

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Speaker 2: Spinning plates and I was on fire the whole time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think some people wanted me to be on fire,

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Speaker 3: but I think that was definitely a big part. Was

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Speaker 3: I think coming home sometimes I would just like I

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Speaker 3: just want to put my feet up. You're standing all day.

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Speaker 3: So I would watch like, you know, crappy TV and

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Speaker 3: just try not to watch it for too long because

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Speaker 3: then you just need to sleep, Like I probably only

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Speaker 3: have like ten hours turn around, if even, and then

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Speaker 3: there's always script adjustments to make and notes to take

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Speaker 3: and calls emails, like there's always something to do, so

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Speaker 3: there is no balance. And that's the one thing that

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Speaker 3: would be really nice if we could just have some

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Speaker 3: balance during that time, because even the weekends, even on

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Speaker 3: a five day shoot week, we're working, like the department

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Speaker 3: heads and myself and producers, you're working right through those weekends.

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Speaker 3: So at the end, I was just depleted. I just

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Speaker 3: felt I was like, this is what it feels like

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Speaker 3: to have an empty cup, Like this is the feeling.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's not a great feeling because it's kind

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Speaker 2: of you know, even you can't really I mean if

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Speaker 2: I feel like it's hard to see the product itself

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Speaker 2: when you're that depleted in it. So it's kind of

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Speaker 2: nice that it takes a couple of months for the

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Speaker 2: editing and for the so you can kind of get

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Speaker 2: the enthusiasm back over like seeing the final product. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because again, it's like it's really hard to be and

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Speaker 2: I am glad that you kind of broke that down,

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Speaker 2: because I think a lot of people don't even understand

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Speaker 2: like what each different job means. But like when you're

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Speaker 2: a producer, it's a different hat and you're definitely more

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Speaker 2: aware of you know, reshoots and budgets and all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: And when you're directing, it's a whole different visual field

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Speaker 2: and a whole different physical field. So it is it's

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Speaker 2: quite a lot to take on by yourself. It's not

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Speaker 2: just I think people kind of have this idea that

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Speaker 2: when you're a producer and a director and a writer,

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Speaker 2: you just kind of come in and are just like

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Speaker 2: a tyrant, and that's not usually how it is. It's

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Speaker 2: like you have to make sure that everyone that's working

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Speaker 2: on that movie is in contact with you most of

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Speaker 2: the time. Yes, Like you're really highly communicative in that role.

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Speaker 3: And I think the really successful directors. I was actually

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Speaker 3: just shadowing Carrie Skogland and she was directing the new

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Speaker 3: wind River movie they haven't got the title, but the

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Speaker 3: second part, and I noticed what she was so good at, well,

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Speaker 3: her stress management. She just doesn't go like up or down.

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Speaker 3: She's just so steady, and she's so good at communicating,

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Speaker 3: like everyone's coming to her all the time she finishes

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Speaker 3: with one person, Kyrie, I'm waiting, she's just like yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but she's just like and then on to the next

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Speaker 3: like she's not like great this this like she'll show

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Speaker 3: it musiasm if she likes something. But just how she

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Speaker 3: preserves her focus and her just communication was just so good.

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Speaker 3: And just little phrases that I took from her were like, well,

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Speaker 3: one good one was if if she was waiting for

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Speaker 3: something to happen, she would just say, what's between us

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Speaker 3: and shooting?

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Speaker 2: Oh god, I love that?

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Speaker 3: Right, And then I'm taking that, take it, yeah, any

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Speaker 3: directors that anyone listening? And then maybe five minutes okay,

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Speaker 3: well we're five minutes on this, okay, So at four

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Speaker 3: minutes she'd go, and what's between us and shooting? Just no,

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Speaker 3: not like what's between us and shooting? Excuse me? Like

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Speaker 3: not no edge, just a question. But she would keep

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Speaker 3: asking the question until she gets there, And that is Yes.

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Speaker 2: That's the kind of persistence that I think helps you

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Speaker 2: maintain your sanity, where I just need to know what

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Speaker 2: the answer is right now. Yes, I think about tomorrow

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Speaker 2: or five days from now. Tell me what's going on

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Speaker 2: right now so we can get through the day. That's

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Speaker 2: beautiful and you need that because again, like you're so prolific,

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Speaker 2: and I just I feel like you're you're also very adept,

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Speaker 2: Like you're a very emotional director and a very emotional writer.

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Speaker 2: And what I mean when I say that is that

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Speaker 2: I feel like you are paying very close attention and

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Speaker 2: you have a very developed story for who what the

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Speaker 2: emotional lives of these characters are, so that when it

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Speaker 2: comes time to filming, it's like, you know the whole

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Speaker 2: story front and back, and when you're as a viewer,

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Speaker 2: you can kind of see or I think it's easy

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Speaker 2: to see kind of the depth of the characters. So

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Speaker 2: it's that takes a lot more effort on your part

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Speaker 2: as well as a writer and director. But I also like,

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Speaker 2: I can particularly love how Dark Nature really deals with

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Speaker 2: a lot of like past trauma and monsters, both you know,

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Speaker 2: real and imagine. And I was kind of wondering, is

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Speaker 2: what is your relationship with confronting the past, Like are

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Speaker 2: you in therapy, are you like constantly talking about like

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Speaker 2: oh yeah, by the way, I'm gonna make a movie

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Speaker 2: about this because it still fucking bothers me and this

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Speaker 2: is my outlet.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, what I really liked about going to

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Speaker 3: Columbia was that we had really good student insurance and

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Speaker 3: so for the first time I was able to afford

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Speaker 3: therapy and it really helped doctor Lee. If you're listening,

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Speaker 3: I love you, and she was just really really helpful.

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Speaker 3: And then actually I found with the Me Too movement

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Speaker 3: that was really powerful for a lot of reasons. And

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Speaker 3: one thing was that I had been assaulted by an

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Speaker 3: ex boyfriend in my twenties, and you know, of course

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Speaker 3: my friend told my close friends and talked about it,

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Speaker 3: but there were a lot of close friends, especially mutual friends,

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Speaker 3: who were just like, oh, well, yeah, he says it

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Speaker 3: didn't really happen. And I was like, yeah, I know,

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Speaker 3: but it's not like he said. She said, you know me,

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Speaker 3: I'm not like lying, and there was like yeah, we

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Speaker 3: talked to him about it, but he just got really upset,

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Speaker 3: you know, just all those classic like narcissist.

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Speaker 2: Oh and also internalized misogyny and internalized like yeah, no, god, I.

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Speaker 3: We can bring that to some film directing, because I

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Speaker 3: do feel there's a lot of that on set that

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Speaker 3: I really really feel in ways I'm like, whoa, this

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Speaker 3: feels like not the rest of the world. It's just

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Speaker 3: so internalized. Yeah, yeah, because I.

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Speaker 2: Think that we're all kind of or I should say

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Speaker 2: I from my perspective, I think that we're all sort

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Speaker 2: of coached very early on on and like how to

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Speaker 2: not make men angry. And you know, when you're on

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Speaker 2: a set, it's totally normal for you know, the grip

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Speaker 2: or the camera guy or whoever it is, to express

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Speaker 2: their frustrations. But the minute you do it, even though

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Speaker 2: you're the one running the show, it's a whole different vibe.

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Speaker 2: And so it's like, even yeah, on a set, I

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Speaker 2: imagine I want you to talk more about that, like

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Speaker 2: how how if you want to, but like how you

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Speaker 2: can kind of manage you know, that internalized misogyny and

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Speaker 2: when you feel it coming up in yourself and what

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Speaker 2: do you do?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you know, it's also really within a

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Speaker 3: lot of the women, and it's also just being a

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Speaker 3: leader and asking for things. And so I found if

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Speaker 3: I just said things in a flat tone because I

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Speaker 3: was exhausted and that's what I could muster, it could

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Speaker 3: be taken as well, that's not nice. Right, There was

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Speaker 3: so much pressure to be nice about everything and managing

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Speaker 3: everyone's emotions. And I am a sensitive person. I want

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Speaker 3: to do it, trust me. I want to get my

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Speaker 3: codependency on and jump in there, but I can't. I

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Speaker 3: have a lot of tasks to do. So one thing

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Speaker 3: that I would say a lot was I think it's

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Speaker 3: really important to talk to people, not about them, which

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Speaker 3: is unkind yes, and it's really hard to do, even

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Speaker 3: for myself because we want to vent. But I think

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Speaker 3: what I would do on my next film is just

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Speaker 3: have meetings every morning, even like just those check ins.

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Speaker 3: And there's so much pressure just like jump in, go,

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Speaker 3: we're already behind. This is going on, like there's always

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Speaker 3: fires to put out when you get there. But I

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Speaker 3: think just having those meetings, making sure everyone's good bucking

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Speaker 3: in that would go a long way.

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Speaker 2: Oh completely, yeah, And it's it's some that's the kind

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Speaker 2: of thing that you don't really or you can't really

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Speaker 2: learn in school. You know, you have to learn it

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Speaker 2: boots on the ground, and so it's like this, you know,

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Speaker 2: this idea that you're still learning on a set always.

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Speaker 2: I think is important too because a lot of young

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Speaker 2: filmmakers especially kind of feel like I have to do

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Speaker 2: it perfectly. I have to get in there and know

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Speaker 2: exactly what's going on, and that's not the case. Like

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Speaker 2: you said, there needs to be check ins, there needs

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Speaker 2: to be a space for you to learn what works

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Speaker 2: best for you and how you work best.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And it's so much about leadership, right, and that's

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Speaker 3: not something you learn at film school. And if you're

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm like, I love my I'm also a recluse.

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Speaker 3: I'm also an introvert. I have some extraversion, but I like,

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Speaker 3: I want to just wake up, have coffee and be

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Speaker 3: in like a little room all day. So Zach, you know,

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Speaker 3: so getting to set where it's like you don't get

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Speaker 3: if you are an introvert, it is really hard to

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Speaker 3: not be overwhelmed by how much needs to come out

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Speaker 3: and how much communication there is. So I find that challenging.

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Speaker 3: And then the leadership aspect. Same with sports. I like snowboarding,

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Speaker 3: I like tennis, I like I like those one on

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Speaker 3: one So team sports, I'm like, oh, like maybe if

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Speaker 3: you have a great team, but what if you don't

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Speaker 3: like your team or people, you know, what do you do?

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Speaker 3: So that's but you have to know that. And time management.

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Speaker 3: It's all about time management too. So those are the

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Speaker 3: things I feel like, So many people are like, I

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Speaker 3: want to be a director, Like do you though, do

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Speaker 3: you want to be a director? You know? But yeah,

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Speaker 3: this it's not it's not like what it looks like.

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Speaker 3: I think if you think of all those directors who

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Speaker 3: just die young, it's like, yeah, that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: And they like drink themselves to death and they're just

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's intense, tense process, even when you're

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Speaker 2: doing your own work. That's the other thing it does.

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Speaker 2: It's not like this only comes up to play when

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Speaker 2: there's like when you're directing someone else's words or like,

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Speaker 2: it's no matter what, it's a hard process. I'm glad

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Speaker 2: that you've you found a way to kind of balance

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Speaker 2: that out for yourself and reclaim reclaim some time. I'm

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Speaker 2: a big fan of when I'm working on a set,

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Speaker 2: I kind of shut down at a certain point in

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Speaker 2: the day, and I expect everyone else to as well.

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Speaker 2: So I'll just say, you know, like I'm not I

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Speaker 2: don't take emails after nine pm, and there's no there's

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Speaker 2: no emergency that can't be addressed the next day. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I think it's good to protect protect your time.

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Speaker 3: It is, and I you know, my best friend Jen.

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Speaker 3: She's a obgu I n and we've best friend since

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Speaker 3: we were ten and she so I talked to her,

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Speaker 3: I'd like, how are you at work today?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 3: How's that? It was great? Its hard? How are how

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Speaker 3: are you today? It's good? Like I had this woman

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Speaker 3: like almost like lead out today or like this, and

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Speaker 3: I'm like, whoa, Like you literally are working with life

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Speaker 3: and death. We just think we are on set, like

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Speaker 3: and of course there's safety. You are like responsible for lives,

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Speaker 3: but the crisises are not life and death generally, but

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Speaker 3: you feel they are.

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Speaker 2: So that's actually great perspective. Yes, exactly, very necessary.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Like it's okay, the generators didn't start, It's okay.

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Speaker 2: No, well we're work it out. It will work it

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Speaker 2: all out. Yeah, for sure. It's like you said, it's

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Speaker 2: not life and death. That might be like we spent

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Speaker 2: a couple thousand more books, but somebody will have it.

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Speaker 3: We'll figure it out, yeah, or I'll miss that scene. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and you live with it forever exactly.

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Speaker 2: That's living with regrets should be the title of every

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Speaker 2: director's memoir. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well maybe that's a good segue then, because

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you a little bit about how

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Speaker 1: like you grew up with film and like, what were

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Speaker 1: some early films that you watched maybe before you wanted

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Speaker 1: to become a director that made you want to direct

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Speaker 1: movies or just be in the movies, you know.

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Speaker 3: I think it was so subconscious because I had no

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Speaker 3: idea I could ever be a director living growing up

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Speaker 3: in Alberta, Like who thinks they do that, especially in

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Speaker 3: the nineties, and definitely like I didn't see any women,

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Speaker 3: so I just it wasn't even on my radar. And

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Speaker 3: so even when I went to film school, I was like, well,

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Speaker 3: I love writing, I love photography, I love filming all

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Speaker 3: this stuff. I do well with things if I put

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Speaker 3: my heart into them, so I think I could do it.

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Speaker 3: But I was still like, you couldn't be the director,

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Speaker 3: Like how do you even do that? So I felt

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Speaker 3: like I kind of just back to like kind of

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Speaker 3: backing in, like I like that. And then even the

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Speaker 3: first year at film school, I was like, oh, I

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Speaker 3: couldn't do the directing. But I think when I saw

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Speaker 3: Andrea Arnold's Fish Tank, Ah.

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Speaker 2: That movie was so monumental for so many of us, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah it might yeah, And I think now so many

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Speaker 3: things are like it that we forget how unique that was.

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Speaker 3: But I think when she just captured that sense of

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Speaker 3: like yearning and sexuality and that character that felt like

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Speaker 3: I was like, I've never seen that shown the way

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Speaker 3: I felt it as a teenager. Thank you for those

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Speaker 3: shots of Michael Fastbender. Oh, thank you.

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Speaker 2: The introduction to Michael Fastbender alone. And I never before

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Speaker 2: I saw that film, I'd never really felt the sense

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Speaker 2: of danger that is kind of conveyed with not just

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Speaker 2: in the character but around the character. And I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: being a teen girl is fucking hard.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Yeah, And the way she showed that, I think

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Speaker 3: it just was like, oh, I could show something from

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Speaker 3: what my past or my world. It gave me that

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Speaker 3: sort of I guess step. And then in my house,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's kind of somewhat of a latchkey kid.

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Speaker 3: My mom's single mom and is a doctor, so she

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Speaker 3: just works like she worked a lot, so I was

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Speaker 3: allowed to just watch a lot of TV. I say,

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Speaker 3: it's more like a TV kid. But then on the weekends, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: we used to rent a VHS because we didn't have

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Speaker 3: the player. Yeah, take it home in the box, big night, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: the video, big read the whole thing and recording movies

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Speaker 3: when we did get a VHS player than recording them

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Speaker 3: off TV. So I've got like my copy of Beaches

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Speaker 3: which has all the commercials still from like eighty nine.

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Speaker 2: Those intense like Nestle commercials that were like, wow, you guys,

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Speaker 2: what was going on to the eighties where every commercial

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Speaker 2: was like so passionate.

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Speaker 3: So passionate, I really when it's eating that chocolate.

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Speaker 2: Well, but also, like you mentioned too that like, again,

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Speaker 2: this comes directly from your bio, but I wanted to

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Speaker 2: this is like kind of a nice way to get

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Speaker 2: into this part of the conversation as well, is that

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Speaker 2: you mentioned that that your your background is metist, like

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Speaker 2: you have on your father's side, and you really honor

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Speaker 2: that in your films, and you know, as a filmmaker,

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Speaker 2: I feel like you're very cognizant of being on tribal

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Speaker 2: lands and like it's just very very specifically cool. But

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Speaker 2: it also made me wonder that you know, I think

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Speaker 2: that you're being Canadian and being you know, like living

397
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Speaker 2: in a place and making films in a place that

398
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Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily expect for you to be the filmmaker. It

399
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Speaker 2: kind of gives you an openness that allows you to

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Speaker 2: tell the stories you want to tell. And it seems

401
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Speaker 2: like you live in a place and I could be wrong,

402
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Speaker 2: but it seems like you live in a place that

403
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Speaker 2: actually is starting to support filmmakers more. And so I'm wondering, like,

404
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Speaker 2: how does like the Canadian or Edmonton or albert and

405
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Speaker 2: scene kind of support marginalized filmmakers or people who never

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Speaker 2: in ways that Hollywood never would.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a really big movement in Canada right now,

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Speaker 3: and that's part of why I move back was because

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Speaker 3: they're support for filmmakers here and for artists. And you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm always aware with any government funding it can leave

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Speaker 3: at any time. When a new government comes in, they

412
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Speaker 3: can cut funding a lot, but there's some pretty substantial

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Speaker 3: funding agencies like telefilm is a big one. So we

414
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Speaker 3: were funded through the Indigenous stream of Telefilm, which is

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Speaker 3: a really really cool process and there's such an amazing

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Speaker 3: indigenous filmmakers in Canada right now who are getting a

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Speaker 3: platform and getting funded and coming out with just like

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Speaker 3: amazing work, which is really cool. And then on a

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Speaker 3: provincial level, we have city grants and so I guess

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Speaker 3: I'd be more municipal level, but there are municipal and

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Speaker 3: provincial grants, and they often do have indigenous streams, and

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Speaker 3: they are definitely prior to like people of color, people disabilities,

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Speaker 3: just people who haven't who've been cut out. They're like

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Speaker 3: making sure that they get to the front of the line.

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Speaker 2: That is truly incredible because, as you know, we live

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Speaker 2: in America where that is not only not happening, but

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Speaker 2: people are rallying against it happening when they are cutting

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Speaker 2: funding left right. And I think it's I think it's

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Speaker 2: really special that you're that you're now able to model

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Speaker 2: to other people who may want to be in who

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Speaker 2: love movies or love this side of the business and

432
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 2: don't know how to get into it. You're able to

433
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 2: model that, Like you can do that from where you live.

434
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,680
Speaker 2: You can do it with support at a government level,

435
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 2: at a municipal level. That doesn't necessarily mean you have

436
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 2: to be making the next like you can make a

437
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,199
Speaker 2: short film. You can. I just I love that your

438
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 2: your your career and your current approach and you're, you know,

439
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,920
Speaker 2: kind of every step of the way, you're really modeling

440
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 2: for people like how to just start where you are

441
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,719
Speaker 2: and do what you can with your own stories. It's

442
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 2: really beautiful.

443
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you, And I hope so I hope that

444
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 3: you know. I think with filmmaking especially, you just have

445
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 3: to make films, and it's so humbling and so hard

446
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 3: at first, especially if you're good at one thing and

447
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 3: then you go and try to make your first film,

448
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,160
Speaker 3: it will probably be really bad, you know, unless you're

449
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 3: just that lucky person that genius like, but for most

450
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,880
Speaker 3: of us, it's like so embarrassing because it doesn't look

451
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 3: like what it was in your head and you don't

452
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 3: know how to do it. But every time you do it,

453
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 3: even if it's just on your iPhone, you could do

454
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 3: something really really great and learn so much just from

455
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 3: doing it, doing it, doing it, and then I think,

456
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 3: you know, it's it's kind of like about what kind

457
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 3: of career you want to have? And I want to

458
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 3: talk to you guys, because one of things I like

459
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 3: on the pod that you talk about is like leaving

460
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 3: LA and what does that mean? Because I have been

461
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 3: told by people too, it's like for your career, you

462
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 3: have to get back there, you have to go here.

463
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,199
Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh, but you know, I like my

464
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 3: healthcare here, I like my community here. I have a

465
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:54,360
Speaker 3: house like I couldn't have.

466
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,160
Speaker 2: That there exactly, so no, I think. I mean, I'll

467
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 2: speak for speaking for myself. I definitely had a lot

468
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 2: of people in my circle and also like on my team,

469
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,679
Speaker 2: like no one, no one ever said don't do that,

470
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 2: but they were all kind of like, Okay, well, let's

471
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 2: see what this means for your career now that you

472
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 2: don't live anywhere. I got all and I'm like, I

473
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 2: kind of don't care, because I think you have to

474
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 2: be a little bit like sometimes you're part of the

475
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 2: vanguard and you just kind of need to look. God,

476
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 2: I hate that I said that because I'm thinking of

477
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 2: that fucking weird cult dude, that Keith Ranier guy.

478
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I can't believe I to use that word,

479
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:35,479
Speaker 1: but it's true. Hey, it existed before he showed up.

480
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: He just called himself. Sometimes you have to cut a priority.

481
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 2: I think I'm only able to make good work if

482
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 2: I'm prioritizing myself and I'm in a good place. So

483
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,360
Speaker 2: if i can't do that in la or in any

484
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 2: other city, then I'm not going to do that. And

485
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 2: I think that, you know, it's it's it's more. I

486
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: think it's moving more in a direction where I think

487
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 2: more people are able to say, I want to be

488
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 2: able to live well and be at peace and have

489
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 2: and that is where I want to work from, Like

490
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 2: that's where I want to create from. So I think

491
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 2: I don't think it's necessary to live in those places,

492
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 2: especially if it's possible for you to travel to them,

493
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 2: Like if you're physically able to and financially able to,

494
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 2: you can just travel there when you need to do

495
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 2: your meetings or when you need to do you know,

496
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 2: But it's like what a month or two out of

497
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 2: a production, and then the rest of the time, ten

498
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 2: months of the year, you get to live where you

499
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 2: want to what you want. So I think it's it's

500
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 2: a lot of women, especially I think, are kind of

501
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 2: carving that path and just saying I'm not willing to

502
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 2: suffer anymore in these places that don't support me in

503
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 2: order to fit this mold, Like we're just we're making

504
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 2: a new path. So yeah, I think it's it's again,

505
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 2: it's inspiring and cool and necessary to see people like you,

506
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 2: like us, who are able to work outside of the

507
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 2: kind of binary that's been set because I don't think

508
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 2: that's I don't think that binary is the future. I

509
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 2: don't think it's New York La is the future. And

510
00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 2: you know, and you also have to look at you know,

511
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 2: you look at films that are made in other countries

512
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: and like filmmakers who were working in France and in

513
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 2: Spain and all these different places, and they're able to

514
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 2: do it, and they're able to get it done like this.

515
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: We have to kind of stop thinking of this monolith,

516
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 2: this monstrous machine that we're all tied to as the

517
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 2: only way, because I don't think it is.

518
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:18,120
Speaker 3: But it's not.

519
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 2: Speaking but speaking of monstrous machines and monoliths, I have

520
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 2: one more question before we get into something very fun.

521
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 2: What is the grossest thing you saw during your six

522
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 2: years in New York City.

523
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 3: That's a good question. It's like I think I probably

524
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 3: have blocked out the grossest thing, but I think it

525
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 3: was actually other senses. When I was living in student

526
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 3: housing in Columbia, there were these rats who lived in

527
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 3: or I think they were rats who lived in the walls.

528
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they were rats, So you know they come.

529
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 3: They were rats. They sounded like dogs from their body weight,

530
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 3: but they were so fast because I could hear them

531
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 3: like scurry. So you have like the exterminator come, you know,

532
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 3: on the first, but then whatever their breeding cycle is,

533
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 3: by like the second and a half week, they're back

534
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 3: exactly and they are living a crazy chaotic light like

535
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 3: I don't know if they're on drugs. They're partying, chasing

536
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 3: each other, screaming, yeah, and they would be like scream

537
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 3: but sometimes like so I'd be in my bed and

538
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 3: on the wall behind me, they'd be like like like

539
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 3: four inches from my head.

540
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 2: God, is the worst feeling in the world. Like nothing

541
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 2: will dismantle your sense of safety more than like, oh yeah,

542
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 2: there's like three inches of plaster keeping you from this

543
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 2: rat who can easily chew through three inches of.

544
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 3: Plaster and then chew out my eyes.

545
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's properly disgusting. That's properly discussing that and

546
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 2: the cockroaches.

547
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 3: One time I moved into a new place and it

548
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 3: was just on those places, like no matter what you did,

549
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 3: what the extreminator, like, did they come. I don't know

550
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 3: if they were really coming, but I would have things installed,

551
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 3: keep it so clean, and then just like turn on

552
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 3: the light and it's like yep, scattering.

553
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, if you live in a building in

554
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 2: new York, like you need to live in a single

555
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 2: solitary house to even start to combat the problem. If

556
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,479
Speaker 2: you live in a building and anyone has roaches, all

557
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 2: of you have roaches, it's like, yeah, never goes away.

558
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 3: Yes, it's just too much. And we don't have that

559
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 3: in Alberta. Like there's no rats here and no no

560
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 3: cock which is really.

561
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god, forget what I just said.

562
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 3: Up moving winter.

563
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 2: I'll take it. If I don't have to see a

564
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 2: rat or a roach over again, I'll.

565
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 3: Take It's nice. It's nice. Oh my god, it's nice.

566
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 2: That was kind of cool about Alaska too, where I

567
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 2: was like, oh, Alaska is tough, but it's so cold

568
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 2: that I have never I haven't seen a snake here,

569
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 2: and I like that. Yeah, that's great for me. Final

570
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 2: final question, because I'm just so curious about this in

571
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 2: general but specific with you. What is a question that

572
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 2: you wish people asked you in interviews that they never

573
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 2: ask I.

574
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 3: Think, which filmmakers? What am who is? Who are my

575
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 3: favorite filmmakers? And what am I taking from what they do?

576
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 2: Ooh? And what does that answer? Yes, just give us

577
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 2: like one.

578
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 3: I think, well, I really, I say, Douglas Cirk.

579
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, yeah, you just rocketed yourself into Millie's

580
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 2: heart and mine for sure.

581
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 1: Of course said the secret.

582
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 3: Just like so like he just goes for it's so beautiful.

583
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: I could see some Douglas Cirk in Dark Nature, Like

584
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: I can see the first of all, you know, with

585
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: all that heaven allows it's very snowy and mountainous and

586
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: there's all those like great outdoor shots. So and and

587
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: your film Dark Nature takes place primarily outdoors. I would say,

588
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: so you've got that going.

589
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 3: I've got it. I am a low budget Douglaser, that

590
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 3: is my I.

591
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: Wouldn't have thought that. By the way, it looks like

592
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: That's the thing about Dark Nature that's so like it's beautiful,

593
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: really well done. It's incredibly well done and looks great

594
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: and like the landscapes and everything like it just was

595
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: such a joy to watch. I mean, it's like such

596
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: a good film. So not I wouldn't follow budget at all.

597
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: Let's just yeah, we weren't.

598
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 3: We weren't like shoe String, but we weren't like you know,

599
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 3: but it like it were tense at times, you know,

600
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 3: we didn't like jailors. But I think just color like

601
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,719
Speaker 3: having really saturated color was really important to me. And

602
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 3: then my costume designer, Jennifer Crichton, she's so such an

603
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 3: amazing artist as well, and so we were just like,

604
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 3: all right, this is what the colors are going to

605
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 3: be at this time of year, So what should the

606
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 3: costumes be To work with these tones? Like work with

607
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 3: what you have. But just it's fun. It's a nice parameter,

608
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 3: right and it works. So I love that. And then

609
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 3: just the emotion, like just being like, let's have some emotion,

610
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 3: Let's have big feelings.

611
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 2: I want big feelings, especially between Joy and Carmen, and

612
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 2: just seeing that, like you know that the way that

613
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 2: you know, just seeing that. Carmen kind of has that

614
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 2: scene where she says, and I don't want to ruin

615
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 2: the movie for anyone who hasn't seen it, but that

616
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 2: scene where she kind of explores the importance of friendship

617
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 2: versus the importance of salvaging her own sense of peace

618
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 2: and comfort. I've never seen anything like that on screen.

619
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: And it was really beautifully played out because it wasn't

620
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 2: played out with a sense of dismissal or like she

621
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 2: was saying, you know, fuck you, forget it. She really

622
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 2: was a kind of exploring it throughout this whole trip.

623
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 2: So all the layers that you have going on with

624
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: the emotional lives of these characters, and some of those shots,

625
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 2: especially when they're first hiking in and you know they're

626
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 2: kind of you've got this great sense of movement, I

627
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 2: think with the camera as well, because you're kind of

628
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 2: behind them as they're going through these big, these big

629
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 2: cavernous canyonists canyon field places. It's just it's gorgeous. It's gorgeous.

630
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 2: I love it.

631
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: I am really excited because we have never had a

632
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: guest that brought a game to the podcast, Like Danielle

633
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: and I are always coming up with our own like

634
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: weird little games that only makes sense to us. And

635
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: the idea that you right out the gate were like

636
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: I got a game before you guys, is so exciting.

637
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: So I want it, Berkeley. I want you to explain,

638
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: like what the game is?

639
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 2: Too?

640
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 3: Okay funny? So I love watching Pretty Women and not

641
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 3: saying it's perfect movie for a lot of problems it has,

642
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 3: but it really didn't inspire me for a career. No,

643
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 3: I didn't didn't go JK JK. So I was watching

644
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 3: it and then I was going through right now. You know,

645
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 3: they have the erotic Thrillers on Criterion and Krena Lungworth's

646
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 3: doing the series, so I'm going through those. And I

647
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 3: watched Dream Lover and I hadn't seen it before, and

648
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 3: as I was watching it, I was like, wait, is

649
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 3: that Jason was like, oh my god, the Jason Alexander

650
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 3: character in Pretty Woman. It's like the same character played

651
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 3: by Larry Miller in Dream Lover, And like they even

652
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 3: sound the same, and it's almost this old time is

653
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 3: it James Kegney, is that the same where it's like, hey,

654
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 3: you know what, it's like this old time Like I'm like, wa, yeah.

655
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: Voice, like nineteen thirties gangster voice. We talk about it

656
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: a lot.

657
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 2: It's like it's like that.

658
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,479
Speaker 3: I was like, okay. And then even sometimes they were

659
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 3: saying things that were like the same thing, really, like

660
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 3: that guy could have said that, Yeah, there's actually I

661
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 3: didn't put it into the game because the audio was

662
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 3: a strange quality on Dream Lover. But they each say

663
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 3: the line feel the burn, oh.

664
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 2: That there has to be a story.

665
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 3: Yeah one. In the Dream Lover it's like when there's

666
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,239
Speaker 3: that home video section and it's like he's looking at

667
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 3: her legs oh, and then he's like, feel the burn.

668
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 3: And then Alexander character says it in Peter Woman someone's

669
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 3: doing something. She's like, ha ha feel the burn.

670
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 2: Okay.

671
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: Wow. There's almost like maybe there was like a stop

672
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: creep checklist going around Hollywood around this era, like early

673
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: late eighties, early nineties, being like, if you're a creep,

674
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: if you're a Doe creep in a film, you have

675
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: to say feel the burn. That's fascinating, and then turn

676
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: a game.

677
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 2: So the game is you want us to guess, Yeah,

678
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 2: who's saying the line? Who say yes?

679
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 3: Because then what I realized that and it was right

680
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 3: after you guys said I could come on the pod.

681
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 3: I was like, you know who would like this?

682
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 2: You know who like this?

683
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 3: I'm going to make it a game. So we've made

684
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 3: it a game where you have to hear an audio

685
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 3: clip okay, and then decide is it Jason Alexander from

686
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 3: Pretty Woman nineteen ninety written by Gary Marshall in playing

687
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 3: the role of Philip the creepy lawyer or is it

688
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 3: the cree be other kind of business guy dream Lover

689
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 3: from nineteen ninety three, So this one came after so

690
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 3: he could be doing an homage. We you know, I'm

691
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 3: not going to rule that out. Larry Miller as Norman, Okay, okay,

692
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 3: and I will say the game I almost it's there's

693
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 3: a bit of, you know, Jason Alexander because of his

694
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 3: time on Seinfeld. It's such an iconic voice, so it's

695
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 3: really hard not to hear him. But I do think

696
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 3: there's some little moments maybe challenge.

697
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 2: And Larry Miller was pretty om the present in the

698
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 2: eighties too, so he's kind of always at the back

699
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: of my head when I think of Jason Alexander. So

700
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 2: this is the perfect game.

701
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, all right, let's do let's do this.

702
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 2: I know, put my put my ears.

703
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 3: Okay, So we'll start. We'll start by just giving you

704
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 3: a sample, and we'll start with Larry Miller as Norman.

705
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 3: So I'll just call him Norman. Do we have sample

706
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 3: one of Larry Miller, let's hear it. And erectis Yes,

707
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 3: dark angelic an Erectics. They're thirty three years old. The

708
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 3: biological clock TikTok pick talk come now, I'm ondulating. Excellent,

709
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 3: that's Larry Miller. And now sample for Jason Alexander.

710
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: Philip Hi I'm Philip Stuckey, Edward Lewis's lawyer.

711
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 3: Hey, where's the guest of honor?

712
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 2: Anyway?

713
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 3: Well, if I know him, he's probably on the corner somewhere,

714
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 3: charming a very.

715
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 2: Pretty lady that is wild.

716
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's like the same dude.

717
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 3: Guys like, yeah, I have so much compassion for women

718
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 3: who are dating in that era.

719
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: Oh my god, the.

720
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 2: Odds act against them.

721
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: Okay, So now we've got the two distinct guys, like,

722
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: we've got the Jason Alexander and the Larry Miller. So

723
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: now you're gonna just play a clip and we have

724
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 1: to side. Is it Jason or Larry?

725
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 3: At five rounds?

726
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 2: Kay? Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.

727
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 3: And you yeah, and I mixed them up, but then

728
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 3: he trown O, my god, let's hear a round one.

729
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,479
Speaker 3: There's a little gap walk away.

730
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 1: Hey, forget it, Powa. We got a thousand man hours

731
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: in on this.

732
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 3: I am down on my knees.

733
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 2: I am begging you. This is so much harder than

734
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 2: I thought it would be. I think the first Larry Miller,

735
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 2: the second one is Jason Alexander.

736
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 3: Okay, Milly, I think it's swamped.

737
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: I think it's Jason first. Then Larry Milly No way, right, Okay,

738
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: that was rough. By the way, that was like I

739
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 1: thought I was gonna be like, oh, this is gonna

740
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,959
Speaker 1: be easy, and I'm like, actually that was rough. Wow.

741
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 3: All right, wait for Winter gets a chip to Canada.

742
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: Yes, when gets to move into the house.

743
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 3: Rats, Now, okay, round to you.

744
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: Forget that. I'm trying to tell you something.

745
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 2: I invited a girl there Brune, mid West and so forth.

746
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 3: Perfect for you.

747
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 2: Who is this girl you're going with?

748
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 3: All right?

749
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,760
Speaker 2: I think it's Larry and then Jason Larry first, then Jason.

750
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: I would agree with.

751
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 3: That both right, yeah, okay, okay, I'm a god three

752
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 3: round three?

753
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 2: Where are you going? He said he had to leave

754
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 2: Itch Wednesday.

755
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: I got my Wednesday afternoon golf game, and I'm out

756
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 1: here with a mobile phone trying to track down some tick.

757
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 2: Oh god, that's hard.

758
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 3: Wow, this is tough. This is That's probably the hardest one,

759
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 3: all right. I think Jason Larry, Okay, I think Larry,

760
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 3: Jason Daniel.

761
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 2: What. We don't know why. I don't know why, because

762
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 2: that was hard.

763
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 3: I like that was a hard one. That was a

764
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 3: hard one because of the golf game. I like how

765
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 3: his whole thing is like I'm out here with a

766
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 3: mobile phone, like, can you believe it?

767
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 1: So we've each so we got one right together, and

768
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: then we each necond neck, neck and neck.

769
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 3: Okay, round four, everybody.

770
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 1: I have to say, that is a beautiful piece of ags.

771
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 3: You should like have.

772
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 2: Any sister's friend, fourth cousin anything.

773
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 1: I see some differences in you this week, like the tie,

774
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 1: and I'm wondering if maybe this girl isn't the difference.

775
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: Is this a trick? It feels like this like I

776
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: want to say it's both Jason for somebody.

777
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 3: It's not.

778
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:35,280
Speaker 2: I think it's Larry Jason.

779
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: All right, let me think, let me think. Uh, I

780
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:44,919
Speaker 1: think it's Larry Jason as well. Both right, Holy shit,

781
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: I got through that one of my skin of my teeth.

782
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: I was like certain that it both was Jason. Alexander

783
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: and he were.

784
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 3: Just yeah, I would like to tear your curve ball.

785
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 3: But I didn't that even just like what the character's saying,

786
00:38:58,200 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 3: it's exactly.

787
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.

788
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 2: Wow, this is fascinating. So you have to come back

789
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 2: and do this all the time and come back into

790
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 2: the We'll only play this game with.

791
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 3: You, all right.

792
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: We have one more right, and this could We're we're tied,

793
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: am I right, We're tied, You're tied.

794
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 2: This could decided for Canada.

795
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: What the hell is wrong with you this week? She

796
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 1: looks really great, very very great.

797
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 2: And I'll be honest with you.

798
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 3: Yes, no, I won't.

799
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 2: Jason Larry.

800
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna say Jason Larry as well?

801
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 3: Both right, Oh my god, we both tied. We tied?

802
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: Okay, guys say they sounded.

803
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 2: I then completely the same, like, this is wild.

804
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 3: I had never thought this, this is I feel like

805
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 3: there must have been something with dream Lover. They were like, yeah,

806
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 3: that's like take the element from Pretty Woman, watch that guy.

807
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 2: And then just be that because you're already there, you're

808
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,240
Speaker 2: already ball that Dowey.

809
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then the final piece of trivia to blow

810
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 3: your minds. Larry Miller is in Pretty Woman? Wow?

811
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 2: Is it really?

812
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 3: He is the shopkeeper?

813
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: That's right?

814
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 3: How much money you're gonna spend an obscene him out? Obscene?

815
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 3: Really obscene? I like him so much?

816
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 1: Wow, Oh my god, you might have to go back

817
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: to Colombia and write a thesis or like, this is

818
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: actually fascinating. I had no idea.

819
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,320
Speaker 3: Wow, and I wanted to get that clip of that

820
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 3: of Larry Miller in Pretty Woman as the bonus round,

821
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 3: but it was too clear it was woman. He had

822
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,479
Speaker 3: no dialogue that sounded like Jason Alexander. That's the thing's

823
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:48,280
Speaker 3: accent changes.

824
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 2: Oh well, this is a beautiful job, so much fun.

825
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 2: We have to have you back on anytime you you want,

826
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 2: come on, anytime you make a film. We're having you

827
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 2: as a guest. You're an absolute dream. And we're moving

828
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 2: to Canada. We're moving to specifically your house, so get

829
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:08,399
Speaker 2: everyone ready.

830
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 3: And I was actually here to recruit you, so yeah,

831
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 3: oh you'll make my government report. That'll be happy.

832
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 2: Yeah done. Anytime I meet a Canadian, I'm like, sign

833
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 2: me up, Sign me the fuck up. Please. To our listeners,

834
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 2: don't forget that. You can start watching Dark Nature in

835
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 2: theaters on May nineteenth and May twenty third. It'll be

836
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 2: streaming so you can watch it everywhere, and you should.

837
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Berkeley Brady. You're the greatest.

838
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 3: You guys are the greatest. Oh my gosh, thank you,

839
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 3: thank you so much. Beat Thanks for getting me through

840
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 3: the shoot again.

841
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 2: Happy to do it. We'll do individual just like a

842
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 2: morning ten minute pump up pod.

843
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 3: I need it. I need it. Thank you.

844
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Danielle. That was so great. We love

845
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 1: Berkeley so much. Her film Dark Nature was seriously amazing.

846
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 1: I haven't been that excited to see a horror movie

847
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: in a.

848
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 2: While, so I know, I know, and again just that

849
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 2: kind of that genre bending element and it's it should

850
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 2: be out streaming right now, so please please please go

851
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 2: watch it.

852
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: Yes, well, listen, we have a theme this week, speaking

853
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 1: of dark Uh, why don't you set it up? Tell

854
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: people what the theme is.

855
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 2: Our theme this week is Tea is for Trauma and

856
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 2: it's a Father's Day special.

857
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: Sorry you got me laughing.

858
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:41,720
Speaker 2: No, please keep it in because that's what's happening. Father's

859
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 2: Day is coming up, and it's also going to be

860
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 2: my birthday. My birthday sometimes coincides with Father's Day, and

861
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 2: I never met my father. But I also just have

862
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 2: a real uneasy feeling about dads in general.

863
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: Here.

864
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 2: They're fucking sus Yeah.

865
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 1: I have to have one, and I think he's us.

866
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: We talked about this last year.

867
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 2: You're like, your dad might have killed he's in the military.

868
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 2: He could have been this dude, and he could have

869
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 2: been the great Santienny in the military. We don't know.

870
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: Look, I you know, I picked this movie for a reason.

871
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 2: So so we're just exploring all the ways that fathers

872
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 2: can potentially traumatize their children in film this week to

873
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 2: celebrate celebrate question Mark Father's Day.

874
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and speaking of Larry Miller and Jason Alexander in

875
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 1: the nineties, like, your film is like one of the

876
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 1: what og eeronic thrillers. Maybe it might be the one.

877
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: And I hadn't seen it in a few years, and

878
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: I like seeing it through the lens of the theme.

879
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:49,839
Speaker 1: I was like, Tea is for the fuck is wrong

880
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:50,359
Speaker 1: with this guy?

881
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 2: Like, you know, like, and we will get into it

882
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 2: because I've broken my film down to his mistakes and

883
00:43:59,200 --> 00:43:59,720
Speaker 2: her trauma.

884
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: Yes, one hundred percent. I'm so excited to talk about

885
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 1: these movies. I'm going first, right, Yeah, okay, So my

886
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 1: movie for the theme, Tea Is for Trauma is a

887
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 1: movie from nineteen seventy nine. It was based on the

888
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: book of the same name by Pat Conroy. It was

889
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: written and directed by Lewis John Carlino, and it's called

890
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 1: The Great Santini.

891
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 2: You may know how the privilege of serving under the

892
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: meanest trufe screaming of squadron commander a Marine Corps Me.

893
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm gonna do a one cent synopsis right

894
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: out the bat, so everybody knows what the hell I'm

895
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: about to talk about. The teenage son of an aggressive, competitive,

896
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 1: and poisonously masculine Marine Corps pilot stationed in South Carolina

897
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty two tries to survive and understand his

898
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 1: complicated and dysfunctional father. Beautiful all right, So the director

899
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 1: Lewis John Carlino, he had a hand in a lot

900
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: of movies that I really like. Okay, So he wrote

901
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:16,399
Speaker 1: the screenplay for Seconds with Rock Hudson, which we love

902
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 1: here on the pod.

903
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 2: Is Lewis John Carlino? Okay? In general? Like was he? Okay?

904
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 3: I mean is he?

905
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 1: Because he not only did Seconds, but he also wrote

906
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: the screenplay for The Fox, which is a movie that

907
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: I've been wanting to do on the podcast for a while.

908
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 1: He also did if we ever do a well BEAUTI

909
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,319
Speaker 1: and would clear that right up theme again, I would

910
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 1: definitely want to play I never promised you a Rose Garden.

911
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody's ever seen that movie. He

912
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: wrote that movie?

913
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 2: Okay, truly? Is he? Okay?

914
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 3: Yeah?

915
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: But he wrote and directed The Great Santini, which you know,

916
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: as you probably know, comes from a very famous book

917
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: by the Southern writer Pat Conroy. And if you listened

918
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: to the now unlocked Bonus episode where I went batshit

919
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,760
Speaker 1: crazy for over an hour about the Prince of Tides,

920
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 1: which I that came up on the feed obviously recently,

921
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: and I was like, what the fuck is wrong with me?

922
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: You know that I'm a fan of Pat Conroy. You know,

923
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 1: I spent my childhood in the low country of South Carolina,

924
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: Berkeley County, and I love stories that take place there.

925
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 1: So Great Santini also takes place there. Now, Daniel, I

926
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 1: want to talk to you about this a little bit

927
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: because I know that you have written, obviously a book

928
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 1: about your family, so I'm kind of curious you're on

929
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,439
Speaker 1: your take about this. So The Great Santini, the book

930
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 1: was published in nineteen seventy six, and it was about

931
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: Pat Conroy's actual father, right, And I was doing research

932
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: for the episode and I got completely fucking derailed this

933
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,240
Speaker 1: one night because I was like reading about what happened

934
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 1: to Pat Conroy when this book was published, right, And

935
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 1: you know, I honestly like, right before I started reading it,

936
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: I thought to myself, listen, if I know Southern people,

937
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: they do not want their business to being put on

938
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: a street like this. And of course, as I was reading,

939
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, his family life got turned completely

940
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,919
Speaker 1: upside down when this book came out. Right, really yeah.

941
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 1: I wondered if did you have any experience with that,

942
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: like you know, with people in your family, you know,

943
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: did they read the book, did they talk to you

944
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 1: about it? Did they knew they were being written about?

945
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: Obviously because you talked to him about it, But I

946
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 1: just wanted to know what what that was like for you.

947
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:48,839
Speaker 2: I some people have asked me this before, and it's

948
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,240
Speaker 2: usually people who are like, I want to write a memoir,

949
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 2: but I don't know if I can say this, but

950
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 2: my family and I will say that for me, the

951
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 2: only way to go into writing a book about your

952
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 2: family and about your own life is first focus on

953
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 2: yourself and your experiences. You're not you can't please everyone,

954
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 2: you can't tell every side of the story. But also

955
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 2: they know what they fucking did. Yeah, they know what

956
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 2: they fucking did, so like, sorry about it, but you

957
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 2: know what you did. So I had no problem writing

958
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 2: about my life and my experiences. And I definitely the

959
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 2: only person in my family that I let read a

960
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 2: first draft with my brother, and because he read it

961
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 2: and because we were kind of, you know, side by

962
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 2: side for a lot of our experiences, and he would

963
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 2: tell me things like, oh yeah, like this story, this

964
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 2: thing that you wrote about made me think of this

965
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 2: thing that happened, and this thing that happened, and they

966
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 2: were fascinating. But it was his experience, Like there were

967
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 2: things that I wasn't part of. So I'm like, all right, well,

968
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 2: then you should write a book or you should you know,

969
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 2: I can't write that experience. I wasn't there, And my

970
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 2: mom was pissed. My mom was pissed when my book

971
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 2: came out. And I think it's partially we've never really

972
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 2: we only talked about it once. But I think it's

973
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 2: partially that that kind of don't tell our business, like

974
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 2: you were saying, like, kind of can't we told our business?

975
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 2: But then part of it is that, like my mom,

976
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 2: you know, I told the truth about my mom and

977
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 2: it's not pretty. And a lot of people, you know,

978
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 2: she's still in the area, and a lot of people

979
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 2: she went to high school with or that she's known

980
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 2: for a long time now look at her with different

981
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 2: eyes maybe, But again, that's not my fucking problem, Like,

982
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 2: that's not my story to tell's not my part of

983
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 2: my life. So I think that it's possible for these

984
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 2: kinds of books to upend your family life, but it

985
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 2: depends on what kind of relationship you have with your family.

986
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 2: To begin with, My relationship with my family is that

987
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,919
Speaker 2: I've always been very direct with them about the ways

988
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:33,800
Speaker 2: they fucked me up. So this is none of this

989
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 2: was a surprise to them.

990
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that's fascinating that you say that, because it

991
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,360
Speaker 1: pretty much is what Pat Conroy said. I think based

992
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 1: on like all the articles and stuff that I read

993
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,439
Speaker 1: about him. So this is this to me is mind

994
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: blowing because I'm just I was just so curious about this.

995
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: So there was an article in the Dallas Morning News

996
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 1: that had mentioned that Pat Conroy's like all of his

997
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 1: like grandparents and his aunts and his uncles, they picketed

998
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:02,879
Speaker 1: his book events. We don't like this gossip, what the hell?

999
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,760
Speaker 1: And again, Southern people, you know what I'm talking about.

1000
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 1: But then here are like two other fascinating things about it.

1001
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 1: So you know, pat Conroy's mother was married to the

1002
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: Great Santini essentially for years and years and years all

1003
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 1: throughout their childhood, and she actually left him when the

1004
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 1: book came out, and according to what pat Conroy said

1005
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: during the trial, she gave the judge a copy of

1006
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: the book as proof as to why she was leaving

1007
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: him during their divorce proceedings.

1008
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 2: Yes, that's that's a side effect. You never intend. Props

1009
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 2: to everyone involved. Everyone involved. That's incredible.

1010
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 1: I know, such crazy shit. And then the thing that

1011
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 1: I think rocks me the most, right is because you know,

1012
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, like his dad was alive when The

1013
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,839
Speaker 1: Great Santini was published, and in that Dallas Morning News

1014
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 1: article it said that apparently the dad read the book,

1015
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 1: of course at the very big like afterwards immediately Matt

1016
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 1: as hell. Then he apparently cried a bunch and then

1017
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 1: he apparently disappeared for a few days, and everybody was thinking,

1018
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 1: that's it. It's they were like, he maybe he's gonna

1019
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 1: kill himself. We don't know where he is, you know

1020
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. He came back and then at

1021
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: some point after that he completely got into the book

1022
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: and he actually had Great Santini license plates made for

1023
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 1: his car, so he was driving around town with great

1024
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 1: Santani license plates, and then he started signing the books

1025
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: alongside his son, so he was like totally owning it,

1026
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 1: owning the fame of it. And then, according to what

1027
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,879
Speaker 1: Pat Conroy said, like later in life, he actually got

1028
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:51,320
Speaker 1: much kinder and was like, apparently this incredible grandpa to

1029
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: his grandkids and shit.

1030
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:58,399
Speaker 2: So I'm like, wow, that is incredible. He's like, yep,

1031
00:51:58,480 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 2: I was that asshole.

1032
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So I mean, and this is the I

1033
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: mean going back to the theme, like it's just this,

1034
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 1: I mean, this is all just mind blowing stuff to

1035
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:12,800
Speaker 1: me and very hiraceutic. Yeah, and honestly, like, if you

1036
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: ever get the chance, like to just read interviews or

1037
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 1: listen to interviews with Pat Conroy talking about all this stuff,

1038
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: because he wrote about his family his entire life. So yeah,

1039
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 1: you know, it's just that thing where you're like, I

1040
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: think you and him have very similar thoughts about like

1041
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 1: what your role is as a writer and writing about

1042
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 1: people who are still alive and people you know in

1043
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: your family. So anyway, I just thought that was interesting.

1044
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 1: And then, you know, to bring it back to the

1045
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 1: film when they decided to make a movie of the

1046
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 1: book a few years later. You know, apparently Pat Conroy's

1047
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 1: parents were totally enchanted by you know, movie making, of course,

1048
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:47,800
Speaker 1: and they came to hang out with like blythe Danner

1049
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 1: and Robert Duval who played them in the film, and

1050
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,879
Speaker 1: so it's just fascinating stuff, fascinating.

1051
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, we hated this until you brought Hollywood

1052
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:57,800
Speaker 2: to the table.

1053
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: Uh you know, ain't that the way it goes?

1054
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 2: Sometimes? So Keith is very charming.

1055
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 1: Oh, we we are going to talk about him. I obsessed,

1056
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,279
Speaker 1: obsessed with him in this film. So if you've never

1057
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: heard of this book or never had seen the movie,

1058
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 1: you know, I hadn't seen it. I didn't see it

1059
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 1: when I was a kid. I saw it much later

1060
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: in life. And I didn't know the book until I

1061
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 1: saw the movie. Okay, I I thought. I didn't realize

1062
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 1: it was going to be a family drama. Honestly, I

1063
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: thought it was going to be about like a magician

1064
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: or something. I mean, you think about the Great Santana,

1065
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 1: You're like, what is this Is this about like.

1066
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 2: Some magician a baseball player?

1067
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, but apparently I'm not alone And a lot of

1068
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: people thought similarly, like they didn't know what the Great

1069
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 1: Santana the film was about, and apparently it hurt the

1070
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 1: film at the box office because people just didn't see it.

1071
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 1: And here's a quote that I'm going to read from

1072
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: Pat Conroy because he there was an interview with him

1073
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 1: on Fresh Air in like the late eighties and he

1074
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about why it was named this and

1075
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 1: he's and this is his quote. He says, quote. I

1076
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 1: did not explain this in the book at all, but

1077
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: my father modestly referred to himself as the Great Santini

1078
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 1: when we were growing up, and he took it. I

1079
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 1: later learned he had seen a high wire aeralist when

1080
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 1: he was a boy, and he was up doing acrobatics

1081
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 1: in his airplane, and when he came down one time

1082
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: when he was a young lieutenant, he said, I was

1083
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: better than the Great Santini today, and some of the

1084
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 1: other pilots heard it, and the nickname stuck. So the

1085
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 1: Great Santana was how he liked being referred to by

1086
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 1: his children. He would line up his seven children and

1087
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: there was this ritual where we'd all go through and

1088
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: he would say who's the greatest of them all? And

1089
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: we the seven would say, oh, you are great Santini

1090
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: and he would say who knows all, here's all and

1091
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: sees all, oh you do, oh Great Santini. So this

1092
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 1: was the ridiculous way I was raised. End quote tra Ma.

1093
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 1: Now you know why this movie is called that. Now

1094
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 1: you know that the Great Santani is an actual person

1095
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: and it was Pat Conroy's actual father. Okay, so the

1096
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: film pretty much is centered around the Great Santini. In

1097
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:16,800
Speaker 1: the film, his real name is Bull meets him and

1098
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:20,280
Speaker 1: he's played by Robert Duval. We all know Rober Duvall.

1099
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 1: Now the thing about Bull slash Great Santani is that

1100
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 1: he is this nineteen sixty two he's a marine pilot

1101
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: and he's one of these like marines who's like just

1102
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 1: one of these like legend kind of guy, self made

1103
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:41,320
Speaker 1: almost you know what I mean. He is obnoxious. He

1104
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: wants people to call him a Great Santani. His own children, like,

1105
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:47,319
Speaker 1: I think we know the kind of guy we're talking about.

1106
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:50,320
Speaker 1: He's like a giant frat boy. He pulls pranks and

1107
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 1: he drinks a lot, and he's just sort of generally

1108
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: this ridiculous man who just lives and breathes military life, right,

1109
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 1: And so his family is basically front row to this shit.

1110
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:12,800
Speaker 1: Like he calls his own family sports fans and hogs.

1111
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: He calls his own family hogs okay, and he makes

1112
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:21,080
Speaker 1: them get up super duper early military style, and you know,

1113
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: they say the phrase he is a warrior without a

1114
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 1: war right, And that's kind of the gist of it

1115
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 1: is that he is this guy who's just constantly ready

1116
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 1: for battle. He's always on doing the military life, and

1117
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 1: he doesn't know how to separate it, and so he

1118
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 1: treats his family like people in his squad, you know.

1119
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1120
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 1: So in the film there are four kids instead of

1121
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 1: seven real life in Pat conroy's real life. So he's

1122
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 1: got two boys and two girls, and the oldest is

1123
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 1: this son, Ben, who is played by Michael O'Keefe. I

1124
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:01,479
Speaker 1: love him. He's so good in this movie.

1125
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:02,959
Speaker 2: It's so great.

1126
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 1: He kind of has this like Timothy Hutton in Ordinary

1127
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 1: People vibe to him.

1128
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 2: You think, yeah, yeah, very affected teen does affected teen? Yeah,

1129
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 2: And you know.

1130
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 1: He's generally, of course, a much more sensitive, thoughtful boy

1131
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: than his dad wants him to be, right, because his

1132
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 1: dad's like, you're going into the Marines right after college,

1133
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: and he's like, ugh, what if I don't want to,

1134
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 1: but it's a non option, Like he's got to go

1135
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 1: because his dad is the Great Santini. He loves basketball,

1136
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 1: and it's that kind of thing where like, you know,

1137
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: he's just sort of like he's balancing this whole thing

1138
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: of like wanting to please his father but also knowing

1139
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 1: that he doesn't he's not who his father actually wants

1140
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: him to be, and that is kind of the tension

1141
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 1: of the film, right. So he has this sister named

1142
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 1: Mary Anne around the same age as him. She's played

1143
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 1: by Lisa Jane Person and honestly, if y'all don't know

1144
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 1: who she is by name, like, look her up. She's

1145
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 1: a legend in her own rights. There's a Blondie song

1146
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 1: written about her, So look her up. She's great. And

1147
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 1: then they've got, you know, two younger siblings. And then

1148
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 1: you've got his wife, the Great Santini's wife, Blife Danner,

1149
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 1: who interestingly enough, was also in the Prince of Tides.

1150
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 1: So she loves Conroy, she loves Pat Conroy. Gwyneth Paltrow's

1151
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:31,479
Speaker 1: mom is a Pat Conroy film adaptation staple. So here's

1152
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 1: the thing. At the beginning of the movie, they they're

1153
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 1: living they moved to Buford, South Carolina, and they actually

1154
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 1: rent this house in Beuford that is Tidle Home, which

1155
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 1: is the house from The Big Chill m H. So

1156
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 1: it's shot in the same house, which I think is

1157
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:50,920
Speaker 1: really cool. And you know, it's basically like the kids

1158
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 1: have moved around a lot, especially Mary Anne. She's like,

1159
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 1: I fucking hate Beauford and I don't want to live here.

1160
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 1: And I'm like, girl, I know, I've been there. I've

1161
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 1: been there.

1162
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 2: Into a town. Like no, she took one loo look

1163
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 2: at Tumor on his little wagon with his horse, and

1164
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 2: she was like, fuck all yeah.

1165
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 1: Like she's like, I'm going to New York the minute

1166
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 1: I turn eighteen and I'm never looking back. But like,

1167
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 1: you know, so basically they're settling into their new life

1168
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:24,919
Speaker 1: and like you know, like I said, Ben is really

1169
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 1: into basketball and he's like playing his dad out in

1170
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 1: the driveway, and it's like this scene is really like

1171
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 1: it's a classic scene for one. I mean, it's been

1172
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 1: parodied many times. There was actually like a parody of

1173
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 1: it in Austin Powers when it was like Scott and

1174
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 1: Doctor Evil or something like that. I think that was

1175
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 1: in the first one. But it's the scene of like

1176
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 1: basically bull Meachum, like playing one on one basketball with

1177
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: Ben and like fucking being too competitive and psycho and

1178
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 1: he's like at some point he bounces the ball off

1179
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 1: of his fucking head, his own son's head, and he's like,

1180
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 1: you're gonna cry. Cry, You're gonna cry. And that is

1181
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: I think the scene that's been parodied a lot. But

1182
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 1: it's so dark, like in his entire family is like

1183
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 1: it goes from like fun to scary in like two

1184
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 1: point five seconds.

1185
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:21,160
Speaker 2: Oh, and it's scary for the whole family, like like everyone,

1186
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 2: the mom, siblings, everyone's like on the verge of crying. Yeah,

1187
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 2: because it's just it's just so brutal.

1188
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 1: And this is the thing is that he just doesn't

1189
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 1: know how to not be this person. He doesn't know

1190
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 1: how to shut it off. The Great Santini is too

1191
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 1: up his own ass to recognize that he's hurting members

1192
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 1: of his family and that he's a lot, you know.

1193
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 1: And the thing about Ben is that he knows that

1194
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 1: his dad is a dick, and he talks to his

1195
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 1: mom about it, and his mom, you know, obviously I

1196
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 1: feel she's probably indoctrinated. Having Mary, I'd been married to

1197
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 1: this guy for so many years. But she also understands that,

1198
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 1: you know, Ben is she gives him that space that

1199
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 1: I think bull doesn't right, she wants She's like, you're

1200
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:14,919
Speaker 1: a sensitive, thoughtful person. I love that about you. Stay

1201
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 1: that way, you know, that kind of stuff, which I

1202
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 1: think gives him a little bit of you know, he

1203
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 1: gets that support from her that he obviously doesn't.

1204
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:24,880
Speaker 2: Get from him. Yeah, it's a good balance. That letter

1205
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 2: she writes for his birthday is really sweet.

1206
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 1: Oh it's yeah, I love that. I love that part.

1207
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 1: And then, you know, like Danielle said, at some point,

1208
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 1: Ben makes friends with a kid in town named Tumor,

1209
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 1: and he's the housekeeper's son, and he is also just

1210
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 1: like a really gentle guy that he loves his hunting

1211
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:44,640
Speaker 1: dogs and fishing, and you know, he shows Ben the

1212
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 1: you know, marshes and stuff in the low country. But

1213
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 1: remember it's nineteen sixty two in the Deep South, and

1214
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 1: Tumor is also brutally bullied by this fucking asshole kid

1215
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 1: named Red Pettis, the local racist. Yeah, awful so, but

1216
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 1: it's this this movie continues down this road where you

1217
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 1: know Ben is trying so hard to be himself, but

1218
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 1: also you know, wanting to please his dad in some

1219
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 1: kind of way. And you know, he makes the varsity

1220
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:22,439
Speaker 1: basketball team, and like there's that whole basketball game scene

1221
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 1: which also is very classic where he gets shoved by

1222
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 1: one of the other players and the dad and bull

1223
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 1: comes down on the court and it's basically like take

1224
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 1: his ass out, like do not get shoved by this player.

1225
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 1: You need to fight back or you're not allowed to

1226
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 1: come home, right, And so Ben goes against his what

1227
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 1: is you know what his senses and basically like breaks

1228
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 1: this kid's arm and it wrecks him and he just

1229
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 1: can't like, you know, he just basically like you know,

1230
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 1: followed his dad's orders as much as it was the

1231
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:01,959
Speaker 1: wrong thing to do. And this and this whole movie

1232
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 1: is cetered around that. Is that basically like Ben trying

1233
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:07,920
Speaker 1: to do what he wants, which he knows is the

1234
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 1: right thing, but also being terrified of his father. The

1235
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 1: ending of the film is very dramatic and it involves

1236
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 1: tumor and there's a moment where for me and I

1237
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:23,640
Speaker 1: don't feel like this is really given in a way,

1238
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 1: but there's a moment where this very traumatic event happens okay,

1239
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 1: and the great Santine he has the wrong read on

1240
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 1: it completely, and Ben goes against him and then basically

1241
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 1: bull sort of spirals out from this. He finally has

1242
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 1: has kind of figured out that maybe his approach is

1243
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:57,480
Speaker 1: not always right, you know, and he goes out and

1244
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 1: gets trashed as he always does. And the scene of Ben,

1245
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 1: who has to basically go get him on his mother's

1246
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:12,400
Speaker 1: wishes is the most poignant scene in this film for me,

1247
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 1: because it's that moment where the son has to, in

1248
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 1: spite of all of this damage, all this trauma, all

1249
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 1: this bullshit that he's dealt with his dad forever, he

1250
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 1: has to conjure up this like iota of tenderness for him,

1251
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 1: and it just really touches me because it just for me,

1252
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 1: it's that moment of like, you have had to deal

1253
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:37,840
Speaker 1: with a difficult person your entire life, and you really

1254
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 1: want to fucking have a boundary here, and then at

1255
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 1: the end of the day, it's like this person is

1256
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:46,560
Speaker 1: broken and fucked up, and it's like comes from a

1257
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 1: generation of men who just were like that, and the

1258
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:52,560
Speaker 1: idea that Ben has to be the bigger person just

1259
01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:55,960
Speaker 1: really it really knocks me out. I just love that. Yeah,

1260
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 1: but uh yeah, this film for me, I've seen it

1261
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 1: many times since the first time I saw it, and

1262
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:07,440
Speaker 1: I just you know, obviously a Father's Day classic because

1263
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:09,160
Speaker 1: it's a lot about fathers.

1264
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 2: It's US's day class.

1265
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a Father's Day classic. Well, I would say

1266
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 1: generally though, I mean, it's a it's a it's a

1267
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 1: movie about dads, and you know the idea that again

1268
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 1: it comes from a real person, and you know, and

1269
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:27,040
Speaker 1: again I really encourage everybody to go out there and

1270
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:30,360
Speaker 1: like read about uh Pat Conroy's life and about this

1271
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 1: real guy, and if you're a military brout like me,

1272
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 1: you will get some of this a little bit. I

1273
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 1: will say, my dad was not the great Santani at all,

1274
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 1: thank god, thank god, because I could not. I mean,

1275
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:48,720
Speaker 1: I I'm so glad even my dad doesn't speak on

1276
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 1: military time like that.

1277
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 3: Just right.

1278
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 1: He keeps, you know, referencing military time like you would

1279
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:56,920
Speaker 1: need to be in the car by eight hundred hours.

1280
01:05:56,960 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 1: And I was like, thank god, my dad doesn't talk

1281
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:02,240
Speaker 1: like that. Fuck, that's so annoying.

1282
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 2: Well, this is a great movie to also reinforce what

1283
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 2: wasn't traumatic about fathers. Maybe for some folks like you,

1284
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:11,920
Speaker 2: had a military dad, but it wasn't like this.

1285
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 1: Yeah it is.

1286
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 2: It's a really it's a tough movie to watch, but

1287
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 2: it's very it's a very interesting portrayal of that father

1288
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 2: son relationship in a way that I think hadn't really

1289
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:27,760
Speaker 2: been fully expressed or explored up to that point. So

1290
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:28,840
Speaker 2: I really I loved it.

1291
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 1: Yes, and we're gonna take a little bit of a

1292
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:37,040
Speaker 1: shift with your film, but I love it because it

1293
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 1: is like my film is very obviously about dads, but

1294
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:42,920
Speaker 1: yours is a little backdoor entry and I love it so.

1295
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:45,360
Speaker 2: Well because I feel like with my film, like once

1296
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 2: you look at it through the lens of parenthood, it

1297
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 2: becomes even more sinister. Yeah, so happy to do it.

1298
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:57,840
Speaker 2: My film for the theme, Teas for Trauma, was released

1299
01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:01,760
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty seven, screenplays by steered In, directed by

1300
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:04,720
Speaker 2: Adrian Lynn, and it is Fatal Attraction.

1301
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:06,440
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be ignored.

1302
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:09,040
Speaker 2: I just want to start out by saying there's a

1303
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 2: lot to read about this, like scholars and academics and

1304
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:14,080
Speaker 2: a lot of you know, pop cultural critics have been

1305
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 2: dissecting this movie since it came out, But I will

1306
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:20,360
Speaker 2: just say blanket statement. I was a child. When this

1307
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:22,200
Speaker 2: film came out, I was like nine or ten years old.

1308
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 2: Even then, I knew this movie had everyone in a

1309
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 2: fucking headlock. People were goddamn terrified, Like this is truly

1310
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:32,320
Speaker 2: a horror movie for a lot of people.

1311
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:35,400
Speaker 1: Did you see this movie when you were a kid? Yeah,

1312
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 1: of course, Oh my god. I mean I should have guessed, right,

1313
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:41,800
Speaker 1: but yeah, I was. I didn't see it until I

1314
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:44,120
Speaker 1: was an adult because I was I was terrified of

1315
01:07:44,200 --> 01:07:45,040
Speaker 1: this movie as a kid.

1316
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:49,200
Speaker 2: Oh really, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolute, that is fascinating. Yeah

1317
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 2: it is. I definitely saw it as a kid, and

1318
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 2: maybe that explains a lot about my unwillingness to be

1319
01:07:55,440 --> 01:08:01,200
Speaker 2: in a relationship because it is complicated. But it doesn't

1320
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 2: have to be this complicated. But one sentenced synopsis about

1321
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 2: Fatal Attraction is a father's one night stand with a

1322
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:13,080
Speaker 2: disturbed woman eventually wreeks havoc on his life, his job,

1323
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:19,639
Speaker 2: and his child's sense of security perfection. So just in general,

1324
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:22,440
Speaker 2: because I'm gonna break this movie down into the mistakes

1325
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 2: that the main character makes and the trauma that his

1326
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 2: child then receives as a result. But the cast is incredible.

1327
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:33,080
Speaker 2: You've got Michael Douglas playing Dan Gallagher and Archer. He

1328
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 2: plays his wife, Beth Gallagher. Ellen Latson plays Ellen Gallagher

1329
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:39,720
Speaker 2: like the cutest little kid in the world, and then

1330
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 2: Glenn Close plays Alex Forrest, who is the one night stand.

1331
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:48,240
Speaker 2: So essentially we have this family. Dan's an attorney for

1332
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 2: a publisher in New York City. They have a nice apartment, like,

1333
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 2: but they're looking to move to a house of state

1334
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 2: near Beth's parents. And you know, Beth is like super

1335
01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:59,760
Speaker 2: hot and like a very cool woman, and like they've

1336
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:01,960
Speaker 2: been made married for nine years and they have this

1337
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:05,080
Speaker 2: adorable kid who just Ellen is just content to do

1338
01:09:05,400 --> 01:09:08,840
Speaker 2: war paint and eat fruit roll ups. And her babysitter

1339
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:11,280
Speaker 2: is a young Jane Perkowski, so Ellen's living it up.

1340
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:13,840
Speaker 2: They have a cool dog named Quincy. Quincy's just like

1341
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 2: one of those old eighties dogs who's like occasional people

1342
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:18,599
Speaker 2: will take him out for a walk, but otherwise he's

1343
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 2: just around.

1344
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1345
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:22,719
Speaker 1: I was like that eight I mean I was probably

1346
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:26,960
Speaker 1: in element in elementary school in eighty seven. And when

1347
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 1: she's watching you Can't Do That on television and eating

1348
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:31,680
Speaker 1: the fruit roll ups, I was like, that was my

1349
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 1: fucking life. Every day after school.

1350
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 2: I was like well because it fruit fruit in the label,

1351
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:40,479
Speaker 2: parents thought it was healthy.

1352
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1353
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:47,439
Speaker 1: Watching it, like at some point the Michael Douglas character

1354
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 1: actually eats one two Like, he just eats one off

1355
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:52,200
Speaker 1: the table, and I'm like, why the fuck did we

1356
01:09:52,280 --> 01:09:55,800
Speaker 1: eat those? Those are so weird and gross? Oh yeah?

1357
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:57,760
Speaker 2: And watching Ellen when there's but she's talking on the

1358
01:09:57,840 --> 01:10:00,240
Speaker 2: phone to Dan at one point and she's like pulling

1359
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 2: the fruit roll up on the table and the chair

1360
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:04,880
Speaker 2: and I'm like, just picking up every fucking German sight.

1361
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 2: They're like, these are disgusting, absolute feel white. We have

1362
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 2: them all over our sticky, gross hands, and like, oh.

1363
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:17,439
Speaker 1: My god, fruit sheet? Why were they putting fruit sheets

1364
01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:18,759
Speaker 1: in our mouth? That's so weird.

1365
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 2: And when she first then rolled it, it looked like

1366
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 2: a piece of American cheese and I'm like, what is

1367
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:28,640
Speaker 2: this giant piece of American cheese? Oh wait, it's a

1368
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:36,439
Speaker 2: fruit roll out. But otherwise, living the life of fucking

1369
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 2: Riley Ellen is fine. And then so when we first

1370
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:44,679
Speaker 2: meet Alex the Glenn Clothes character, they're at this party

1371
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:47,800
Speaker 2: for you know, again, the publisher that Dan is an

1372
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:51,080
Speaker 2: attorney for, and we meet Glenn Clothes and she's wearing

1373
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:54,360
Speaker 2: this deflated trash bag and she comes in forehead first,

1374
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:56,559
Speaker 2: like she's got her bangs all brushed back, and it's

1375
01:10:56,600 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 2: just like all fucking forehead. And they're at a party

1376
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 2: for something for book called Samurai Self Help, which just

1377
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:05,439
Speaker 2: kind of should indicate what a yuppie fucking nightmare this is.

1378
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:11,840
Speaker 2: And then you also have there's this this set of

1379
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:15,680
Speaker 2: like the couple friend that that Dan and Beth have,

1380
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:20,120
Speaker 2: and the couple friends are basically you'll know him, you'll

1381
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 2: know him if you see him. But Stuart Pankin and

1382
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 2: Ellen Foley and Stuart Penkin plays this guy named Jimmy,

1383
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:28,439
Speaker 2: and they all kind of you know, he's also a lawyer.

1384
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:33,760
Speaker 1: He's like the Jason Alexander Larry Miller of this movie, right.

1385
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:39,280
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. And he's also that eighty stereotype dude

1386
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:41,439
Speaker 2: where like every word that comes out of his mouth

1387
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:44,400
Speaker 2: is a quote unquote joke about killing his wife and

1388
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:47,160
Speaker 2: wanting to kill his wife. So she asked him for

1389
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:49,320
Speaker 2: a drink and he's like, yeah, hemlock with a twist,

1390
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:51,000
Speaker 2: and you're like, what the fuck is your problem? Like,

1391
01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:53,840
Speaker 2: why why is she still married to him? Why are

1392
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:56,040
Speaker 2: you gotta come out like that about your fucking wife.

1393
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:59,400
Speaker 1: God, he needs a fucking horse tranquilizer. Stat good.

1394
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,240
Speaker 2: But put him down, Just put him down for the night.

1395
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:05,080
Speaker 2: Don't take him to parties, give him a fucking just

1396
01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:07,080
Speaker 2: knock him out and put him to sleep for the night,

1397
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:09,800
Speaker 2: because he doesn't need to be there just for ever.

1398
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:12,160
Speaker 2: Even at like a simple dinner party, he's like, Ah,

1399
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:13,600
Speaker 2: I wish I could kill you, And you're like, what

1400
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:16,560
Speaker 2: the fuck dude? If you start paying attention, there's a

1401
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:19,120
Speaker 2: lot of that character in eighties movies, and you're like,

1402
01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:24,280
Speaker 2: this is really weirdly veiled violence that I don't understand.

1403
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 2: So this party is a mess, and but you know

1404
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 2: she's in They Dan and Alex meet and she's an

1405
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:32,720
Speaker 2: editor at the publishing house that he represents, and so

1406
01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:39,000
Speaker 2: they meet. When Beth and Ellen go upstate for one

1407
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:41,439
Speaker 2: day to look at the house that they want to

1408
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:46,760
Speaker 2: buy that's near her parents, Dan immediately has a fucking

1409
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:51,080
Speaker 2: one night stand one day they're gonna be gone, and

1410
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:53,760
Speaker 2: then he he's the kind of guy who goes out

1411
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 2: in the rain without opening his umbrella first. So he

1412
01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:57,640
Speaker 2: goes out in the rain and he's like, oh, my

1413
01:12:57,760 --> 01:13:00,240
Speaker 2: umbrella doesn't work, and Glenn Close saves him, and they

1414
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:02,720
Speaker 2: get a drink and they smoke indoors, and no one

1415
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:04,800
Speaker 2: explains why they're working on a Saturday, but they were

1416
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:08,200
Speaker 2: working on a Saturday. And then they fuck. She takes

1417
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:10,479
Speaker 2: them home and they fuck. And here's the thing. First

1418
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:14,000
Speaker 2: first mistake that Dan makes. He takes her home. He

1419
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:16,600
Speaker 2: hits it raw. Even the sink is turning them on.

1420
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:18,040
Speaker 1: Awful.

1421
01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:23,040
Speaker 2: This is the height of the AIDS epidemic. We're talking

1422
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:27,640
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty seven. He's already putting Beth at risk just

1423
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 2: to have this one weird fucking sex moment with someone

1424
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:35,920
Speaker 2: you work with, Dan, you work with her, even if

1425
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 2: you're not in the same office. Don't shit where you

1426
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:38,960
Speaker 2: fucking eat.

1427
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:44,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, clearly mistake chief among them number one. Yeah.

1428
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:47,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. And Adrian Lynn is the director who I think

1429
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:50,080
Speaker 2: we've talked about before on this pod, and if you

1430
01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:52,160
Speaker 2: don't know, you could read about Adrian Lynn. But the

1431
01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:56,040
Speaker 2: certified freak seven days a week. Like every movie he

1432
01:13:56,240 --> 01:14:00,559
Speaker 2: has has just the most intense sex scenes, this movie

1433
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 2: being no different. So that's his first mistake. His second

1434
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:06,960
Speaker 2: mistake is that they go out dancing. Now, let me

1435
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:09,519
Speaker 2: tell you, if you stop fucking to go out dancing.

1436
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:12,880
Speaker 2: You're on a date. Yes, okay, you're on a date.

1437
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:15,400
Speaker 2: This is no longer. It might still be casual, but

1438
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 2: just recognize that you're on a date, which he never

1439
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:22,200
Speaker 2: does at any point. So he checks in with his family.

1440
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:24,639
Speaker 2: They're going to stay another night because you know, Ellen

1441
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:26,560
Speaker 2: wants a rabbit. They don't want to drive home, and

1442
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:28,240
Speaker 2: he's like, great, I get to fuck Alex for a

1443
01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:31,120
Speaker 2: whole other night. Finally it hits him, I gotta go

1444
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 2: get Quincy and take Quincy out. So he goes home

1445
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:36,760
Speaker 2: and Alex is kind of sad, like, oh, I can't

1446
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 2: believe you're leaving. But he goes home to get Quincy

1447
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:42,599
Speaker 2: and then she calls and she's like, well, you should

1448
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:44,960
Speaker 2: come back and you can bring the dog, and he does.

1449
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:49,080
Speaker 2: But now he's made Quincy complicit in this whole illicited affair.

1450
01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:50,120
Speaker 2: I'm not a fan.

1451
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:52,840
Speaker 1: Well, I'm like, this is the point that I think

1452
01:14:53,040 --> 01:14:55,240
Speaker 1: I always think about when I see this movie, was

1453
01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:59,560
Speaker 1: that he claims to Beth that it was like a

1454
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:01,320
Speaker 1: one night and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no,

1455
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:07,360
Speaker 1: there was multiple locations. Yep, so you're lying. You went

1456
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:11,360
Speaker 1: if you've left to go to a salsa club. Then

1457
01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:13,840
Speaker 1: that's that's a that's a longer than a one night stand.

1458
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 1: That's a multiple event out in so fuck that anyway.

1459
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:22,280
Speaker 2: And it spanned at least two days, yes, And they

1460
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:26,920
Speaker 2: were in the park frolicking. If you're frolicking, that's not

1461
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:30,080
Speaker 2: a one night stand. It could be it's a casual encounter,

1462
01:15:30,160 --> 01:15:31,360
Speaker 2: but it's not a one night stand.

1463
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:34,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, wasn't it like touch football? They like, okay, you

1464
01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:36,920
Speaker 1: played touch football. It's a little bit more than a

1465
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:40,040
Speaker 1: one night stand. Your fucking arm in arm going to

1466
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:43,160
Speaker 1: get damn bagels or whatever the fuck you do like

1467
01:15:43,240 --> 01:15:46,560
Speaker 1: a real couple. You were acting like a real couple exactly.

1468
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:53,080
Speaker 2: And Alex starts to showcase her intensity during this phone

1469
01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:54,960
Speaker 2: call where she's like, come over, come over, and then

1470
01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:57,640
Speaker 2: she does and they fuck again, and she's she's like, oh,

1471
01:15:57,880 --> 01:15:59,960
Speaker 2: why are all the good guys married? And I feel

1472
01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:02,400
Speaker 2: like I know you already. If you hear either of

1473
01:16:02,479 --> 01:16:05,720
Speaker 2: those things coming out of anyone's mouth, run the fuck away. Yeah,

1474
01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:08,960
Speaker 2: So that was another mistake, but I'm I'm calling it

1475
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:11,080
Speaker 2: like mistake two point five because it still takes place

1476
01:16:11,120 --> 01:16:13,679
Speaker 2: in the same world. Why are all the good guys married?

1477
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:14,000
Speaker 3: They're not.

1478
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:17,760
Speaker 2: You're just NonStop fucking marry dude. So like you're in

1479
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:22,320
Speaker 2: New York, make the effort find someone. Single. Third mistake

1480
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:28,080
Speaker 2: He tries to leave finally from this weekend fuckfist, and

1481
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:33,479
Speaker 2: she slashes her fucking wrists. Yeah, and here's the mistake.

1482
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:38,360
Speaker 2: Part One, he doesn't fucking call for help, and two

1483
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:41,840
Speaker 2: he stays and sews her up and helps her out

1484
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:44,320
Speaker 2: and makes I mean, this is someone who's clearly in

1485
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:47,720
Speaker 2: a fragile state, and he's staying and nursing her through it,

1486
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:52,360
Speaker 2: which to her indicates that he wants to stay and

1487
01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:55,800
Speaker 2: he's interested in her and wants to help her. Is

1488
01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:57,840
Speaker 2: it a manipulative move to slash her fucking wrists when

1489
01:16:57,840 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 2: someone's trying to leave and you don't want him to.

1490
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:02,600
Speaker 2: Of course he should have called the fucking ambulance and

1491
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:05,920
Speaker 2: gotten the fuck out of there and moved upstate that night. Yeah,

1492
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,559
Speaker 2: get the fuck out of there, but he stays. Mistake

1493
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:15,280
Speaker 2: number three. Mistake number four, after she starts obsessively calling

1494
01:17:15,360 --> 01:17:19,400
Speaker 2: his house, she asks to meet up with him, and

1495
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:22,920
Speaker 2: he does, what is your problem?

1496
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:23,240
Speaker 3: Dan?

1497
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:27,240
Speaker 2: And of course the meeting isn't is unhinged because she's

1498
01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:32,800
Speaker 2: like well, also, I'm pregnant, and deal with that motherfucker.

1499
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:35,120
Speaker 2: And I'm keeping it because, uh, this could be my

1500
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:36,840
Speaker 2: I love this when they say this the movies, this

1501
01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:39,120
Speaker 2: could be my last chance to have a baby. And

1502
01:17:39,160 --> 01:17:40,559
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, but is this the one you want?

1503
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:42,280
Speaker 2: Even if it is your last chance, this is the

1504
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:42,840
Speaker 2: baby you want?

1505
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:45,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, And she said she's like thirty six or something,

1506
01:17:46,160 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 1: and I was like, damn, she was supposed to be

1507
01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:53,120
Speaker 1: thirty six in that movie. I know, maybe it was

1508
01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:55,360
Speaker 1: all the smoking indoors, but I was like, damn. I

1509
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:58,360
Speaker 1: thought like even now, I was like, oh, she looks

1510
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:00,559
Speaker 1: like she's at least in her early forties.

1511
01:18:00,680 --> 01:18:03,000
Speaker 2: But you know, it was in the self Tanner or like,

1512
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:04,439
Speaker 2: I don't know what was going on in the eighties,

1513
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:05,599
Speaker 2: but that was his lipstick.

1514
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:06,000
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1515
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 2: Frosted Lipsick is no one's friend, no one's friend. But yeah,

1516
01:18:10,080 --> 01:18:13,040
Speaker 2: she is like, I'm pregnant, fucking deal with it, he breaks.

1517
01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:15,599
Speaker 2: This is part of his fourth Mistake four point five.

1518
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:18,000
Speaker 2: After he does agree to meet up with her, he

1519
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:21,599
Speaker 2: then breaks into her place looking for proof that she's pregnant,

1520
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:23,880
Speaker 2: which what what fucking proof are you gonna find?

1521
01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:24,640
Speaker 1: Ugh?

1522
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:27,960
Speaker 2: Can't with him, so he changes his number and he

1523
01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:30,519
Speaker 2: does everything that you think. Okay, finally he's trying to

1524
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:32,680
Speaker 2: break away from this woman, like she can find him

1525
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:34,200
Speaker 2: at work, and she does, like she comes to his

1526
01:18:34,280 --> 01:18:36,960
Speaker 2: office and pretends to be cool about breaking up with him,

1527
01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:39,400
Speaker 2: but that obviously is not the case. So he thinks

1528
01:18:39,439 --> 01:18:42,400
Speaker 2: he's in the clear. But then he comes home one

1529
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:45,960
Speaker 2: day and she has shown up pretending to be a

1530
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:48,519
Speaker 2: buyer for his apartment because they're trying to sell the

1531
01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:51,320
Speaker 2: apartment now that they have purchased this house of state, right,

1532
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:57,479
Speaker 2: And he comes home and she's talking to Beth and

1533
01:18:57,640 --> 01:19:00,320
Speaker 2: Beth is singing like a fucking canary. She's like, here's

1534
01:19:00,320 --> 01:19:05,240
Speaker 2: our number. We're moving to Bedford. Come stalk us. Essentially, Yeah, that.

1535
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:08,120
Speaker 1: Was like a huge moment for me in this rewatch

1536
01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:10,880
Speaker 1: where I was like, oh, yeah, she gave like he

1537
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:13,719
Speaker 1: had their phone number unlisted. Guess what it's listed again

1538
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:16,519
Speaker 1: to the one person you don't want it to be

1539
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:18,880
Speaker 1: listed to. And then she's like, oh, yeah, this is

1540
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:21,519
Speaker 1: the town we're moving too. Like I was like, we

1541
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:27,080
Speaker 1: give away information to strangers all willy nilly too much?

1542
01:19:27,439 --> 01:19:34,400
Speaker 2: Why did then this movie change something? YEA so this

1543
01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:36,439
Speaker 2: we have this scene then where he kind of confronts

1544
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:38,600
Speaker 2: her in her apartment about coming to his house, and

1545
01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:41,080
Speaker 2: we get that great line of her saying, I'm not

1546
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:44,240
Speaker 2: going to be ignored Dan, which I love, and he's

1547
01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:46,360
Speaker 2: you know, Dan's increasingly more afraid of the phone, Like

1548
01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:48,160
Speaker 2: every time the phone rings, he looks like he's gonna

1549
01:19:48,200 --> 01:19:50,880
Speaker 2: jump out of his skin. But they move upstate, Ellen

1550
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:54,360
Speaker 2: gets her rabbit. Things seem cool for a minute. Then

1551
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:57,840
Speaker 2: Dan goes to his car one day after work and

1552
01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:02,679
Speaker 2: Alex has poured acid all over his car. Don't fuck

1553
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:06,839
Speaker 2: with her, man, She's like stalking him in the garage.

1554
01:20:07,400 --> 01:20:08,760
Speaker 2: And then he goes to his car and he's like,

1555
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:10,920
Speaker 2: what the fuck? Yeah, and I think it was acid.

1556
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:13,120
Speaker 2: I actually don't know, but it looked like she poured

1557
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:15,680
Speaker 2: some kind of like a cdic goop all over his

1558
01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:20,400
Speaker 2: fucking car, which is again signal eight number one, go

1559
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:23,160
Speaker 2: to the cops. But again that we're talking about a

1560
01:20:23,240 --> 01:20:28,360
Speaker 2: time when people didn't do that as readily, and if

1561
01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:30,800
Speaker 2: you did, you were nine times out of ten not

1562
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 2: really believed. Yeah, like most women who went to report

1563
01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:37,280
Speaker 2: this kind of you know, stalking behavior weren't believed, and

1564
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:39,719
Speaker 2: men certainly weren't believed so different times.

1565
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:42,320
Speaker 1: And also too, he did not want to reveal the

1566
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:45,080
Speaker 1: fact that he had had an affair, you know, so

1567
01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:48,120
Speaker 1: he's just like, I'm gonna handle it myself, or you know,

1568
01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:52,679
Speaker 1: I don't want to tell my wife. But it's like, dude,

1569
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:56,240
Speaker 1: it got kicked up several notches, it's time to come clean.

1570
01:20:57,000 --> 01:20:59,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, as soon as she says I'm pregnant and

1571
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:02,599
Speaker 2: starts pulling that like, it's time to come clean for sure.

1572
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:07,320
Speaker 2: But he does finally go to the cops, but this

1573
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:09,800
Speaker 2: is after so after you know, the acid is in

1574
01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:12,120
Speaker 2: the car, and you know, she she leaves him a

1575
01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:14,040
Speaker 2: cassette tape which he rents a car and listens to

1576
01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:16,679
Speaker 2: it on the way home, takes the tape into the house,

1577
01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:18,479
Speaker 2: which I'm like, what are you doing, dude? Anyone could

1578
01:21:18,479 --> 01:21:21,120
Speaker 2: find that tape. What are you doing? But so his

1579
01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:24,360
Speaker 2: sixth mistake to me is that he has this tape,

1580
01:21:24,400 --> 01:21:27,040
Speaker 2: which is true fucking evidence. But when he goes to

1581
01:21:27,160 --> 01:21:29,920
Speaker 2: the cops, he's like, oh yeah, a friend of a

1582
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:32,680
Speaker 2: friend is having some problems with a lady, like like

1583
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:34,599
Speaker 2: you said, Because he doesn't want to admit his affair,

1584
01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:37,280
Speaker 2: he doesn't even admit what's going on with him. So

1585
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:40,639
Speaker 2: the cops were like, yeah, I guess we could call

1586
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:42,960
Speaker 2: her out, but that might provoke her. We don't know

1587
01:21:43,160 --> 01:21:44,720
Speaker 2: we should do this because he's not giving them the

1588
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:46,599
Speaker 2: full fucking scope of the picture, and he's not handing

1589
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:52,040
Speaker 2: them this cassette tape, which is actual evidence. Yeah, six mistake.

1590
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:56,760
Speaker 2: So now here's where where Ellen's trauma comes in two

1591
01:21:56,920 --> 01:22:00,880
Speaker 2: distinct moments where first and foremost, she's uprooted from her

1592
01:22:00,920 --> 01:22:04,360
Speaker 2: life and moved upstate. Which the house is nice, it's fine,

1593
01:22:04,360 --> 01:22:06,160
Speaker 2: and she gets her rabbit, that's okay. She lives near

1594
01:22:06,160 --> 01:22:10,839
Speaker 2: her grandparents, not the worst thing. But when Dan finally

1595
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:14,280
Speaker 2: confesses to Beth that he has had an affair, they're

1596
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:17,840
Speaker 2: in the living room of their house. He's screaming, she's screaming.

1597
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:20,960
Speaker 2: They're having this intense fucking argument, and then you hear

1598
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:24,400
Speaker 2: Ellen sobbing. She's gotten out of bed and hears the

1599
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:27,559
Speaker 2: whole thing, and the way she grabs her little throat

1600
01:22:27,600 --> 01:22:32,000
Speaker 2: in that scene, and God shatters me me. Oh fucking

1601
01:22:32,120 --> 01:22:33,160
Speaker 2: glass figurine.

1602
01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:36,920
Speaker 1: I was like, look at this little girl with her

1603
01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:39,919
Speaker 1: hand in her chest, like she's thought the vapors.

1604
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:43,880
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, it is so sad,

1605
01:22:44,600 --> 01:22:48,080
Speaker 2: so sad, and so she's basically watching her her father

1606
01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:51,000
Speaker 2: admit that he's had an affair and both of her

1607
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:53,000
Speaker 2: parents are upset. And when you're like that little of

1608
01:22:53,080 --> 01:22:55,680
Speaker 2: the kid and like you don't know what's fucking going on, Like,

1609
01:22:55,760 --> 01:22:59,880
Speaker 2: it's just it's traumatic. It's traumatic to watch a kid

1610
01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:04,600
Speaker 2: be traumatized in that way. So the second point of

1611
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:08,320
Speaker 2: trauma for Ellen is that one day Beth goes to

1612
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:12,920
Speaker 2: get her from school and she's fucking gone because Alex

1613
01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:16,679
Speaker 2: has stolen her from school and even though she takes

1614
01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:25,240
Speaker 2: her to Playland, she has stolen their child. So Ellen's like, eventually,

1615
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:29,040
Speaker 2: Ellen's gonna find out the hardest possible way by the

1616
01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:31,439
Speaker 2: end of this movie that this woman who took her

1617
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:35,479
Speaker 2: to the fucking Playland Day of Fun is also the

1618
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:37,120
Speaker 2: woman who's going to be dead in her house in

1619
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:37,960
Speaker 2: like two days.

1620
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:42,000
Speaker 1: I question, do you think she wanted to go on

1621
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:43,719
Speaker 1: that roller coaster? Ellen?

1622
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:46,920
Speaker 2: Absolutely not, and that's why she no. She was Her

1623
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:49,360
Speaker 2: whole face was like, Nope, hate this, hate this, hate this.

1624
01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:53,599
Speaker 1: But this lady picked me up from school and made

1625
01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:56,920
Speaker 1: me write a fucking roller coaster with her trauma. MA

1626
01:23:57,560 --> 01:23:59,840
Speaker 1: that to me, I would be in therapy for that

1627
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:02,759
Speaker 1: for the rest of my fucking life.

1628
01:24:03,040 --> 01:24:08,679
Speaker 2: Okay, especially because in her frantic search for this child,

1629
01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:13,040
Speaker 2: Beth gets into a fucking car accident and like almost

1630
01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:15,240
Speaker 2: breaks her goddamn neck. So like, your a day of

1631
01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:18,599
Speaker 2: fun is the cause of your mom possibly dying almost dying.

1632
01:24:18,840 --> 01:24:22,400
Speaker 1: Oh, I would be like a fucking Ariostra making in

1633
01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:25,720
Speaker 1: several movies about the time that I was six years

1634
01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:27,760
Speaker 1: old and this strange woman took me out a roller

1635
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:31,439
Speaker 1: coaster while my mom was in the hospit. I'd be like,

1636
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:34,000
Speaker 1: I would not be able to do any creative work

1637
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:37,600
Speaker 1: outside of that then period, the.

1638
01:24:37,680 --> 01:24:41,920
Speaker 2: Cornerstone of my fucking life. So after this move, because

1639
01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:45,160
Speaker 2: Beth doesn't know what's going on, but after Dan realizes,

1640
01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:47,160
Speaker 2: you know, because he's now moved out of the house

1641
01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:50,600
Speaker 2: and he's living at their apartment again, and once he

1642
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:54,120
Speaker 2: realizes someone took his kid, he knows it's Alex. So

1643
01:24:54,280 --> 01:24:57,200
Speaker 2: he goes to Alex's house to confront her, and they

1644
01:24:57,280 --> 01:25:00,640
Speaker 2: have this nasty fucking fight and knives pulled and all

1645
01:25:00,760 --> 01:25:03,560
Speaker 2: kinds of shit. But he's like, basically, I'm going to

1646
01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:06,760
Speaker 2: the police for real. He does, but she's already gone,

1647
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:09,120
Speaker 2: like they can't find her. He's finally like, all right,

1648
01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:11,400
Speaker 2: I can have confessed that it was me and all

1649
01:25:11,439 --> 01:25:15,360
Speaker 2: the shit's going on because of me. But again, final

1650
01:25:15,479 --> 01:25:21,320
Speaker 2: point of trauma for Ellen, and possibly a final mistake,

1651
01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:24,559
Speaker 2: is eventually And I think I can say this because

1652
01:25:24,560 --> 01:25:26,200
Speaker 2: it's pretty iconic moment in the movie. I don't think

1653
01:25:26,200 --> 01:25:28,840
Speaker 2: I'm ruining anything for anyone. And it's still shocking to

1654
01:25:28,920 --> 01:25:31,800
Speaker 2: see when you see it if you haven't seen the

1655
01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:33,320
Speaker 2: movie or you're gonna watch her for the first time.

1656
01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:38,840
Speaker 2: But Alex eventually breaks into their house and she's wearing

1657
01:25:38,920 --> 01:25:40,760
Speaker 2: this white gown and she's holding this knife and she's

1658
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:43,040
Speaker 2: like walking towards Beth in the bathroom and slicing her

1659
01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:47,720
Speaker 2: leg up and like just being real nuts. And they

1660
01:25:47,840 --> 01:25:53,600
Speaker 2: kill her together. Like so Dan basically shoots her in

1661
01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:59,280
Speaker 2: the bathroom and kills her. Now, if Ellen's parents fighting

1662
01:26:00,320 --> 01:26:03,439
Speaker 2: woke her up, them killing a woman in the bathroom

1663
01:26:03,520 --> 01:26:05,280
Speaker 2: one hundred percent woke her up. They didn't show that

1664
01:26:05,360 --> 01:26:08,360
Speaker 2: part in the movie, but that is the final layer

1665
01:26:08,400 --> 01:26:11,679
Speaker 2: of the trauma cake for Ellen. Yeah, let's not also

1666
01:26:11,840 --> 01:26:16,519
Speaker 2: forget that there's a point where the family goes to

1667
01:26:16,640 --> 01:26:20,000
Speaker 2: the grandparents house for the day, and when they come back,

1668
01:26:20,960 --> 01:26:27,200
Speaker 2: Alex has not just killed Ellen's new pet rabbit, she

1669
01:26:27,479 --> 01:26:30,599
Speaker 2: boils it in a lobster pot on the fucking stove.

1670
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:34,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. That was the part of the film that I

1671
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:38,760
Speaker 1: had heard about, right, and I was terrified of. Like

1672
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:40,479
Speaker 1: as a child, which is what I mean, I wouldn't

1673
01:26:40,479 --> 01:26:42,559
Speaker 1: have watched Fatal Attraction. My parents would have never let

1674
01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:44,720
Speaker 1: me see that movie anyway. But I was like, uh,

1675
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:47,000
Speaker 1: I can't watch this because I hear that they boil

1676
01:26:47,080 --> 01:26:47,920
Speaker 1: a live rabbit.

1677
01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:51,960
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, yeah, And thankfully we don't see

1678
01:26:52,080 --> 01:26:54,080
Speaker 2: that apart. But it looks like she cut the rabbit's

1679
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:55,800
Speaker 2: throat and then stuck it in the pot. But still

1680
01:26:55,840 --> 01:26:58,479
Speaker 2: trump still traumatic, still traumatic, and also could have burned

1681
01:26:58,479 --> 01:27:00,800
Speaker 2: the fucking house down. So Ellen has just got this

1682
01:27:01,120 --> 01:27:04,320
Speaker 2: this layered trauma of my rabbit's dead. My parents are

1683
01:27:04,479 --> 01:27:07,839
Speaker 2: getting divorced, my mom and dad are fighting, I've been kidnapped.

1684
01:27:07,880 --> 01:27:10,759
Speaker 2: My mom's in a fucking hospital because I've been kidnapped,

1685
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:14,759
Speaker 2: and they had to murder a woman in our bathroom.

1686
01:27:14,880 --> 01:27:15,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1687
01:27:16,280 --> 01:27:18,560
Speaker 2: If you look at Fatal Attraction from Ellen's pov, it

1688
01:27:18,680 --> 01:27:20,439
Speaker 2: is a traumatic fucking movie.

1689
01:27:20,560 --> 01:27:22,760
Speaker 1: One hundred percent, and I feel like not enough people

1690
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:25,760
Speaker 1: are saying that, so thank you for bringing it to

1691
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:30,120
Speaker 1: the theme. So I feel like everyone'saying, oh, that's just

1692
01:27:30,160 --> 01:27:31,400
Speaker 1: a movie, but a god cheating And I was like,

1693
01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:33,959
Speaker 1: you know that there are all these other people involved,

1694
01:27:34,439 --> 01:27:36,240
Speaker 1: one of whom is this six year old girl with

1695
01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:38,400
Speaker 1: the cutest little haircut I've ever seen.

1696
01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:40,880
Speaker 2: Oh love this kid.

1697
01:27:41,120 --> 01:27:43,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, trauma, and she will be in therapy for the

1698
01:27:43,360 --> 01:27:46,840
Speaker 1: rest of her lives. Listen, I fucking love that you

1699
01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:49,200
Speaker 1: picked this movie for the theme. I'm so happy to

1700
01:27:49,320 --> 01:27:51,920
Speaker 1: have seen it again. It scares the shit out of

1701
01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:55,519
Speaker 1: me still, it is really so terrifying, But honestly, like,

1702
01:27:55,600 --> 01:27:57,920
Speaker 1: this theme is great. We always do a Father's Day

1703
01:27:57,960 --> 01:28:03,080
Speaker 1: episode and we love knocking them a little bit with

1704
01:28:03,479 --> 01:28:08,000
Speaker 1: the Murderous dads, the Robot dads, the team for Trauma dads.

1705
01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:08,799
Speaker 2: So I'm sorry.

1706
01:28:09,120 --> 01:28:11,639
Speaker 1: If you're a dad, I'm sure you're a good one.

1707
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:14,880
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're you're not, you're maybe not.

1708
01:28:15,200 --> 01:28:17,240
Speaker 2: Just admit it either way, admit it, be like I'm

1709
01:28:17,240 --> 01:28:20,800
Speaker 2: a shitty dad, and recognize that you need to stop

1710
01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:23,559
Speaker 2: causing your children trauma while you still can.

1711
01:28:24,479 --> 01:28:26,920
Speaker 1: I would just like just going to if you don't

1712
01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:29,479
Speaker 1: have a child, just start going to therapy now before

1713
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:30,719
Speaker 1: you even get pregnant.

1714
01:28:30,760 --> 01:28:33,479
Speaker 2: Okay, so work your shit out before you spawn.

1715
01:28:34,240 --> 01:28:37,880
Speaker 1: Well listen. If you want to email us, please do so.

1716
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:39,800
Speaker 1: I Saw what you Did pod at gmail dot com

1717
01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:41,320
Speaker 1: and we.

1718
01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:43,920
Speaker 2: Are on our social media at I Saw Pod on

1719
01:28:44,040 --> 01:28:44,840
Speaker 2: Instagram and Twitter.

1720
01:28:45,400 --> 01:28:48,120
Speaker 1: We also have merch Please go to the I Saw

1721
01:28:48,160 --> 01:28:50,200
Speaker 1: what You Did section of the Exactly Right shop to

1722
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:50,680
Speaker 1: find it.

1723
01:28:51,439 --> 01:28:54,920
Speaker 2: In bonus episodes, Old bonus episodes are now unlocked and

1724
01:28:55,080 --> 01:28:57,320
Speaker 2: free and popping up on the main feed every couple

1725
01:28:57,360 --> 01:29:00,840
Speaker 2: of weeks, and new bonus episodes are every third Thursday

1726
01:29:01,160 --> 01:29:01,800
Speaker 2: of the month.

1727
01:29:02,280 --> 01:29:06,160
Speaker 1: Excellent. And so the movies for next week are so

1728
01:29:06,479 --> 01:29:09,040
Speaker 1: fucking good. I'm so excited.

1729
01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:12,439
Speaker 2: So our movies for next week are Heavenly Bodies from

1730
01:29:12,520 --> 01:29:16,360
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four and Perfect from nineteen eighty five. And

1731
01:29:16,439 --> 01:29:19,240
Speaker 2: I will say this about Heavenly Bodies. Go to the

1732
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:20,160
Speaker 2: Internet archive.

1733
01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:21,200
Speaker 1: That's all I'll say.

1734
01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:26,599
Speaker 2: Go there, Done and done well.

1735
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:29,120
Speaker 1: Danielle as always a fucking pleasure doing this podcast with you.

1736
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:31,920
Speaker 2: The best, the best.

1737
01:29:32,360 --> 01:29:35,800
Speaker 1: You're my favorite dad, by Oh, You're my favorite dad.

1738
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:47,519
Speaker 2: This has been an exactly Right production produced by Casey

1739
01:29:47,600 --> 01:29:50,559
Speaker 2: O'Brien mixed by Edson Choi. Our theme song is by

1740
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:54,479
Speaker 2: Tom bry Fogel, artwork by Garrett Ross. Our executive producers

1741
01:29:54,479 --> 01:29:57,519
Speaker 2: are Georgia Hartstart Caring, Til Garriff, and Daniel Kramer. You

1742
01:29:57,560 --> 01:30:00,880
Speaker 2: can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at Ia, and

1743
01:30:01,080 --> 01:30:03,040
Speaker 2: you can email us at I Saw what You Did

1744
01:30:03,120 --> 01:30:04,080
Speaker 2: pod at gmail