1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Donald Trump's closing argument on the 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: campaign trail was a ten minute story about golfing legend 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: Arnold Palmer's Genitalia. We have such a great show for 6 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: you today, the Lincoln Projects. Rick Wilson joins us to 7 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: discuss everything the state of the race. Then we'll talk 8 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: to politifacts Bill Adair about his new book Beyond the 9 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: Big Lie, the epidemic of political liars, why Republicans do 10 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: it more, and how it could burn down our democracy. 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: But first the news. 12 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 2: Mally So, there's a lot going on in the race. 13 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 2: When Trump's not discussing genitals, he visited the McDonald's, big 14 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 2: big event. What'd you see here? 15 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 3: You know? 16 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: I am without words. I guess the thinking here was 17 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: that visiting a McDonald's would somehow make Trump more relatable. 18 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: There's slightly more than a than two weeks left before 19 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: election day and Donald Trump is in Pennsylvania working at 20 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: a McDonald. Now he's doing this to troll Harris because 21 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: she said she worked in a McDonald and he believes 22 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 1: she didn't actually work in a McDonald's. 23 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 2: This is his new truther thing, the McDonald's working. It's 24 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 2: like when he didn't believe Obama's bre certificate. 25 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: Maybe there are some people for whom a quote unquote 26 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: billionaire cause playing working at McDonald's, you know, moves the needle. 27 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: I just don't see it. But maybe I'm wrong. He's 28 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: had some problems, canceled a lot of interviews, but today 29 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: he did do an interview with the very Trump friendly 30 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: Howard Kurtz, and Kurtz actually asked him some hard questions. 31 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: I'm kind of shocked while. 32 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 4: We listened to this one listening you're a famous line 33 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 4: about Springfield, Ohio, and I take your point that fifteen 34 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 4: to twenty thousand legal hation imemberrant sitting in that area, 35 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 4: a lot of friction. But when you said, you know 36 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 4: it's gone viral, they're reading the dogs, they're reading the cats. 37 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 4: You said, you're just reporting what had been said. But 38 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 4: why not say, now, well, look that turned out not 39 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 4: to be true. 40 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if it's true or 41 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: not to it. 42 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 4: I read to that you don't know if it's true 43 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 4: or not true. 44 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 5: You know it's been the monk by, well, it's true. 45 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: What about the goose, the geese? What about the geese? 46 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 3: What happened there with him? 47 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 5: They were all missing. 48 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 3: It was one listening with hell. 49 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 5: How he howly I have no idea and I said. 50 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: Something, yeah, I mean okay. So Howie Kurtz manages to 51 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: somehow ask and I think, look, this is always what 52 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: I think about interviews. When you get someone feeling comfortable, 53 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: you get much more from them. Another question, Howard Kurtz 54 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: asked him, your defense secretary and top general are warning 55 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: that you are the most dangerous person ever to America, 56 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,519 Speaker 1: and Trump said, I don't respect them as soldiers, never 57 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: did so. I actually think how Kurtz did a very 58 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: good interview there. So up is. 59 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 2: Down left going to say words I never thought i'd 60 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 2: hear Eddie would say, especially you or I. 61 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: He certainly got him to say stuff that was pretty interesting. 62 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: He did, however, scrap his interviews with NBC, CNBC squad Box, 63 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: a bunch of other things, and then also on Friday, 64 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: it looked like he was dozing off an event in Michigan. 65 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 2: Mike, what do you think now that the It seems 66 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 2: like the Harris campaign just put out an ad about 67 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 2: his unraveling mental state. 68 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 3: The AP just put up an article. 69 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 2: It seems the mainstream media is finally doing what we've 70 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: been begging for months, to talk about his unraveling mental state. 71 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know that it matters, and I 72 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: actually think that at this moment, the Harris campaign is 73 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: bigger than much of the mainstream media. Remember it's a 74 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: billion dollar startup, and so they are sort of their 75 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: own media at this point, just like on the Republican 76 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: side too. But I do think like the contrast of 77 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: him working at McDonald's not to show that working at 78 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: McDonald's is an important and the sanctity of work kind 79 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: of thing, the way that Shared Brown did a whole 80 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: tour about how important work is. Donald Trump did this 81 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: to troll Harris. Whereas Harris was in Detroit on Saturday 82 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: with Lizzo, in Atlanta later on on Saturday with Usher, 83 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: then on Sunday, she's going to be with Stevie Wonder 84 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: and then she's also going to be in two different churches. 85 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: So it feels like a radically different kind of campaign, right. 86 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: He is trying to just attack her for saying she 87 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: didn't do something she obviously did, and she is just 88 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: trying to get voters. 89 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 90 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 2: So the other I think very bizarre bizarre dudes. And 91 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 2: one of the only people who is a worst public 92 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 2: speaker than Donald Trump these days is mister Elon Musk, 93 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 2: and he's doing a lot of speaking in Pennsylvania. What 94 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 2: are you seeing here? 95 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: So Elon Musk is doing town halls. He's moved to 96 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania for the next two plus weeks. He's doing these 97 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: town halls where they're basically like Elon town halls, and 98 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: he's doing them in the name of Donald Trump. But 99 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 1: from what I've talked to some reporter who are who 100 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: have been writing about this, it seems much more like 101 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: it's sort of Elon making the case for Elon unless 102 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: him making the taste for Trump. Now, he has spent 103 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: a lot of money on Trump's campaign. But you'll remember 104 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: that there was just a piece from Hugo Lole that 105 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: just came out yesterday at The Guardian where he talked 106 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: about how like as much as a fourth of all 107 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: the door knocks that could remember, they're doing these paid canvassers, 108 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: and about a fourth of all these door knocks may 109 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: have been fraudulent. So there's a sense in which a 110 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: lot of this is actually not working the America Pact 111 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: and they're not really connecting with voters on the ground. Always, 112 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: door knocking is not a science, and it often, you know, 113 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: it often is hard to quantitate. But supposely Elon is 114 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: paying about sixteen dollars a door, which is crazy high 115 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: for canvassers. Yeah, so I meing that's significantly more So 116 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: definitely Elon is being taken advantage of. 117 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 2: As somebody who's done a lot of door knocking. That's 118 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 2: the type of number where you'd want to fact check 119 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 2: it like ten times, because it seems inconceivable anyone could 120 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 2: run something that that. 121 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: Usually it's four dollars a door. Yeah, but it again, 122 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: it incentivizes fraud because the companies don't want to have 123 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: to give the money back. So I think we'll see 124 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: more of that. I don't know if it helps. And 125 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: then also you'll have to remember that Elon is sort 126 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: of a desperate move. Yesterday said he'd give a million 127 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: dollars every day to a register in Pennsylvania voter who 128 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: signs his petition that says that a you voted in 129 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: the swing state and b that you support the first 130 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: and second amendment, which I mean, does Elon really support 131 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: the first. 132 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 2: No, he definitely does not. But you know, I don't 133 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 2: know if you've read any of the cravid readings of this, 134 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 2: is that they're trying to make a list of angry 135 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 2: Trump voters that they're going to rile up after the 136 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 2: election if it's contested. 137 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: Well, I certainly think that they're going that there's data 138 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: harvesting going on here. Why this data is being harvested, 139 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: who knows, but there certainly is yes. And also Pennsylvania 140 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: Governor Josh Shapiro said law enforcement should take a look 141 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: at the Elon Muss voter payments. It's not clear whether 142 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: this is legal or not. It seems very murky. Again, 143 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: you're technically paying them for signing the petition, so maybe 144 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: it's okay, but it certainly feels like vote buying. 145 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 2: Well, you know, University of California election lawyer Richard L. 146 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 2: Haysen does say it's definitely illegal, which I think is interesting. 147 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: Rick Wilson is the founder of the Lincoln Project and 148 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: the host of the Enemy's List. Welcome Back, Too Fast Politics. 149 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: Rick Wilson, Molly. 150 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 3: John Fast, Happy happy day to you. 151 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: We are in the tightening of the election. We're what 152 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: two weeks away? 153 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 3: A little more than two weeks, but yeah, close enough, 154 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 3: a little more. Yeah, and Donnie is very tired. 155 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: I have to say. He really does look terrible and 156 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: he might have been better off just not going to 157 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: the Alsmth dinner. 158 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 3: The first mistake of the Ausmeth dinner was he had 159 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 3: Greg Guttfeld write as jokes a man. 160 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: Who is Is that true? 161 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 3: Or Yeah? No, it's true, it's true, notoriously not funny. Yeah, 162 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 3: there are a million comedians in this world, and you 163 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 3: would think to yourself, who would be a great comedian 164 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 3: to write for me at a Catholic political dinner? And 165 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 3: Greg Guttfeld is never on that list, not once in 166 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 3: the history of ever. 167 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: What I like about Greg guttfeld show, which I've actually 168 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: watched because one of my kids believes in capital punishment, 169 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 1: is that when you watch it, you realize that, like, 170 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: none of the jokes are funny, but it doesn't matter 171 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: because they rely so heavily on whatever that is sort 172 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: of a laugh track kind of thing. 173 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 3: Laugh track, Yeah, yeah, listen. Laugh tracks are the last 174 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 3: refuge of scoundrels. Yes, and if I ever use one, 175 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 3: I want you to go ahead and just put me 176 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 3: out of my misery. 177 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: It's just not a normal thing to do anywhere at 178 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: this point in American life, right in the. 179 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 3: Year of our war twenty twenty four. Laugh tracks are 180 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 3: or an artifact of the before times. 181 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: Right. You know when to laugh, it's when it's funny. Yes, 182 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: So I got a call from a friend who's a Trumper. 183 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: He made me feel very anxious. He read me some 184 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: poll numbers, which. 185 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 3: He is Sam. 186 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: That's exactly what it was, right, Okay, So here's the story. 187 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: Sam Number called me this morning when I was really 188 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: sick because I had gone out for dinner and felt 189 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: terrible and was super sick and couldn't get it and 190 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 1: just was so and I never get sick. And Sam 191 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: Number called me saying that it was about whatever, and 192 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: then he started making me feel terrible. And then he said, 193 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: this one thinks she's going to lose, and that one's 194 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: good thinks she's going to lose, and so talk me 195 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 1: off the lunch. 196 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 3: Rick Wilson, Donald Trump is sick, he's tired, he's old, 197 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 3: he's exhausted, he's not doing well. You see, every day 198 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 3: this guy gets more and more shaky and infirm this 199 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 3: is not This is not the race they think it is. 200 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 3: Would I like to be ahead twenty points in every state? 201 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 3: Of course I would. We live in a closely divided country, 202 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 3: and that's just a hard reality for us that we 203 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:05,959 Speaker 3: have to have to endure. We don't get a vote 204 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,959 Speaker 3: on that, We're going to live in a tough divided country. 205 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 3: And for all of this bullshit, okay, for all of this, 206 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 3: all this noise and agita and people getting wigged out 207 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 3: every single fucking day, which I just look, Donald Trump 208 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 3: is doing base only activation right now. He's not getting 209 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 3: new customers. As I like to say, you. 210 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: Have got a Stuart Stevens accent when you say it, 211 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: which is how we know. 212 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:30,719 Speaker 3: I stole that from Stuart Stevens, so I'll give him 213 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 3: full credit. Trump's not getting new customers. But no, Stuart's 214 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,319 Speaker 3: very wise about that. It's like this guy is not 215 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 3: out getting additional support. He's not out getting new people 216 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 3: coming out of the woodwork saying, you know, I rejected 217 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 3: Trump in twenty twenty, but now because of his ad 218 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 3: about communism, I'm going to go back to him. Nobody's 219 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 3: saying that, nobody's waking up in the morning, thinking that 220 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 3: the way to victory is is more Trump right right. 221 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: No, I think that's a really good point. I also 222 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: think that one of the internal divides, which I think 223 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: is interesting that's happening in Trump world is there certainly 224 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: a feeling like who gets to take over once he wins. 225 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 3: What you saw today with that release of that email 226 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 3: from Susie to Chris Losovita, the forwarding of an email 227 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 3: from Corey saying I run the budget, I run expenditures. Now, 228 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 3: I mean, these people are there in their own little 229 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 3: mini Trump civil war, and it is delicious. It is 230 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 3: delightful how much they are buddy fucking each other. And 231 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 3: for all of the idea that Donald Trump runs his 232 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 3: own campaign, wake up people, not even close. Donald Trump 233 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 3: isn't even He's barely conscious of his own campaign at 234 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 3: this point. I think it is kind of remarkable that 235 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 3: all these rats in the sack are fighting with each other, 236 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 3: and as of right now, there's no good upside for him. 237 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 3: There's nobody who's got like a breakthrough moment, Like Elon 238 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 3: Musk is out there running around using an app that 239 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 3: is notoriously buggy and shitty to to try to canvass 240 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 3: all these voters. We're picking up today in a couple 241 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 3: of articles that the app over twenty five percent of 242 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 3: the doors they claim to have knocked on using this app. 243 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 3: That are they're just being ripped off by the vendors 244 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 3: who are sitting running taco restaurants going yeah, yeah, I 245 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 3: knocked on seventeen doors today for sure, man or whatever. 246 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 3: These are not smart guys. 247 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: It does feel like this Hugo Lowl reporting from the 248 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: Guardian about how they may have knocked on about a 249 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: fourth less doors than they're claiming. 250 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the thing I was referring to. Yeah, I mean, Molly, listen, 251 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 3: there's another part of this. I think it's important. The 252 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:46,959 Speaker 3: Trump campaign is playing severe catch up right now. They 253 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 3: do not have a field program. Field programs do not 254 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 3: emerge overnight. You don't go down to political Mart and 255 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 3: buy a field program. They take months and years to develop. 256 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 3: Elon Musk hired a bunch of Ronda sand contractors, and 257 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 3: as we all know, Ron DeSantis is the apotheosis of 258 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 3: excellent campaign technique to run their field operation and to 259 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 3: put them together with all this stuff for their field program, 260 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 3: and it's just not working. 261 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: So tell us what you're seeing right now. 262 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 3: We're seeing right now that these early vote numbers are 263 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 3: telling a good news story, not unequivocally everywhere one hundred percent, 264 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 3: like oh it's done, because we're not done. 265 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: But where are you seeing good stuff? 266 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 3: I'm seeing good stuff in Pennsylvania. I'm seeing good stuff 267 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 3: in Michigan. I think Trump is now headfaking Michigan for 268 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 3: weirdly like almost sentimental reasons. 269 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 1: Interesting because of his winning the Man of the Year. 270 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 3: Well obviously, duh, we're. 271 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: Referring to the fake Man of the Year thing that 272 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: he made up. 273 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 3: Yes, that Trump claims that he was named Man of 274 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 3: the Year in Michigan. All this comes down to a really, 275 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 3: i think painful recognition that the divided country is divided. 276 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 3: We're not going to wake up any day for the 277 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 3: next sixteen days of this campaign and go, wow, it's 278 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 3: in the bag. Got to fight this thing to the finish. 279 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 3: You got to run through the tape, you got to 280 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 3: push it all the way down. Somebody yesterday said, I 281 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 3: watched a video of you. You looked really tired, And 282 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, you think really, you think I'm fucking tired. Yes, 283 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 3: I'm fucking tired, and you should be you know, there's 284 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 3: two rules in campaigns, die broke and die tired. 285 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: One of the things that this is this sort of 286 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: impossible new phenomenon again who knows, was that in twenty 287 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: sixteen there were these secret Trump voters and in twenty 288 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: twenty four there are perhaps secret Harris voters, an underground 289 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: of people. 290 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 3: We believe that to be the case. And i'll tell 291 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 3: you why. This goes way back to Margaret Thatcher, where 292 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 3: the Labor Party did not believe Margaret Thatcher could win 293 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 3: that race. She was just not as popular as that 294 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 3: as she should have been on paper to win that race. 295 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 3: And when she did, they discovered the presence of what 296 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 3: they called shy Tories. We tories were people that were 297 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 3: going to vote for Thatcher. They were going to vote 298 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 3: for her, and it was going to change the ballgame. Well, 299 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 3: they didn't pick them up in they're polling now. In 300 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, there were shy Trump voters. They were mostly 301 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 3: Republicans and moderate Republicans who bought into the oh god, 302 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 3: it's Trump or communism, okay, And this year we're starting 303 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 3: to pick up and I'm not going to say it's 304 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 3: like a complete, utterly apparent and abundant polling phenomenon. Yet 305 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 3: we're not going to see it. I mean, that's part 306 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 3: of the definitional thing of this. It's harder to pick 307 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 3: it up because it's hard to. 308 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: Pick it up right because they're not telling you what 309 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: they're going to do right right. 310 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 3: We believe there are going to be a lot of 311 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 3: Republicans who say, Okay, you know what, I can't fucking 312 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 3: do this. I just can't. I can't do this. I 313 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 3: can't or I won't because you know what, if you're 314 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 3: right now at this point in this election, you haven't 315 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 3: made up your mind publicly, it's because you have problems 316 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 3: with Trump. That's that's where it's at. If you're not 317 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 3: declaring who you're with right now, it's because you have 318 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 3: problems with Trump. M The race is coming home for Harris. 319 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 3: Democrats are coming home. Even the worry spots on the map, 320 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 3: African American male's, Hispanic males, they're coming home. We're still 321 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 3: going to win a majority of their votes. Now, that's 322 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 3: not as much as we should because there's a lot 323 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 3: of work to be done in those categories in the 324 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 3: next couple of years. We can't fix the whole problem today, 325 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 3: but if you're a shy Harris voter, there are a 326 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 3: lot of incentives to be that way. If you're a 327 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 3: Republican or independent, you don't want your husband to know, 328 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 3: you don't want your friends to know, because you're probably 329 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 3: surrounded by people who will call you a communist, a pedophile, terrorist, 330 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 3: an ANTIFA, Black Lives Matter fan, all that shit that 331 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 3: they pile on people to keep them in line. 332 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: So tell us what you're seeing in Florida on the ground. 333 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 3: Look, the early vote here in Florida is just starting 334 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 3: to come in the mail in early vote is actually 335 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 3: starting to come. We're going to see in person early 336 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 3: voting start next week. That'll be something that I'm going 337 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 3: to keep a close eye on. So right now, it 338 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 3: looks tied up in some of the early data for 339 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 3: requests of ballots of Republicans and Democrats. That's a good 340 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 3: news story. That's a good news story for Democrats. 341 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: Because many more registered voters in Florida, Yeah. 342 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 3: Many more. Yeah, And the Republicans took a million Democrats 343 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 3: basically out of the voting roles in the last two years. 344 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 3: Surprise Ron de Santis and the election police yay, which 345 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 3: you know, we can litigate that another time. But if 346 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 3: you're seeing tied numbers, you're looking at something that's pretty 347 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 3: probably pretty good for Democrats. You know, there's going to 348 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 3: be a lot of attention on it. I still, as 349 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 3: I've said, you know, Florida is in sight, but it's 350 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 3: not fully in play. Now. Again, this is going to 351 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 3: come down to the last week of the campaign and 352 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 3: where Trump is mentally, physically politically in Florida in a 353 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 3: way that will help decide not only the continuation on 354 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 3: the early vote totals, which right now, look Democrats are 355 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 3: at forty two point six and Republicans are at thirty 356 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 3: six point nine as of Sunday afternoons data. That's about 357 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 3: a million votes turned in. So we're going to have 358 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,360 Speaker 3: a struggle in Florida for the Republicans if Trump continues 359 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 3: to behave like he's behaving this week, if he keeps 360 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 3: wandering around on stage and it's DJ Donnie's dance party, 361 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 3: or he stares out into space or falls asleep. I 362 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 3: really believe this race. And interestingly, in most races, the 363 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 3: die is kind of cast about six weeks out. Not 364 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 3: this one. It started so late for Harris, there's such 365 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 3: a growing understanding of what Trump had. What's broken with 366 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:32,959 Speaker 3: Trump that I think it has become very evident, very evident, 367 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,959 Speaker 3: how badly off he is physically and mentally, and that's 368 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 3: gonna and that's going to continue to shape the race 369 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 3: later and later. This will be a late decided race. 370 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 3: And look, the likeliest scenario is that we're going to 371 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 3: come down to election night and it's going to look 372 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 3: an awful lot like twenty twenty, and she's gonna squeak 373 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 3: out a win, and that is amazing and wonderful and historic. 374 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 3: And yet then we go to war for seventy six 375 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 3: days because I think these fuckers are going to burn 376 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 3: this country to the ground. So everybody's like, I know 377 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 3: how tired you are. I'm like, yes too, So why 378 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 3: aren't you going to take a vacation after the election? 379 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 3: I'm like, what in the spring of twenty five? Jesus Christ. 380 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: I think that's a really good point. And I do 381 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 1: also what you're talking about with the contrast between the two. 382 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: Last week, right, you had Trump on the Al Smith 383 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: dinner making jokes, looking sweaty. You had him on the 384 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: curvy couch with the Fox and Friends crew sort of 385 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: struggling to get through an interview them trying to give 386 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: him advice, right, like maybe you should campaign with NICKI 387 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: Haley like everything they've been talking about, right, and him 388 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: being like, no, fuck you. And then you had Harris 389 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: right back and forth to different swing states giving speeches, 390 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: doing rallies, an interview with Fox News. I mean, sort 391 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,959 Speaker 1: of going into trying to do Joe Rogan. I mean 392 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: it's a pretty star contrast. 393 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 3: It is at given that she has the pace and 394 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,479 Speaker 3: energy to keep it up and he doesn't. I suspect 395 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 3: we're going to end with Trump being off the road 396 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 3: at least a day or two this week. He is 397 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 3: not sharp. He is not doing well, and I think 398 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 3: it's important for the campaign. If they're going to sustain 399 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 3: this thing, they're going to really have to deal with 400 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 3: his problems. And it's tough for them right now. They 401 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 3: are not having a good time. There is no fun 402 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 3: being had it. 403 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: I feel like, as you say this, you could hear 404 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: this sort of like salivating from Rick Wilson. 405 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 3: Do I have to plan to fuck with him in 406 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 3: his physical and mental well being in the next two 407 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 3: weeks every mother fucking minute of every motherfucking day. 408 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: So, Rick, one of the things I wanted to ask 409 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 1: you about was when Trump was on the Curvy Couch 410 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: this week, he was talking about how he didn't want 411 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: Fox to air any more negative campaign ads about him, 412 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 1: or to have liberals on the station. In my mind, 413 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: I was thinking, Fox is what, at the most four 414 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: million viewers US listen. 415 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 3: Fox is the largest cable outlet in the country, right, but. 416 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: How many many. 417 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,959 Speaker 3: Millions it dwarfs everything else? Everything else together is smaller 418 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,239 Speaker 3: than Fox. Okay, Trump wanting to do that is a 419 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 3: sign of his enormous political weakness right now. This is 420 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 3: not a strong candidate with a strong campaign. The idea 421 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 3: that you have to shut down the media for him 422 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 3: to win tells you an awful lot about how fucked 423 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 3: up and how weak and how broken his campaign is. 424 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 3: Part of that is just Trump doing what Trump naturally does, 425 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 3: which is trying to stack the deck in his favor. 426 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 3: But part of it is this autocratic model that they 427 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 3: think will win this for him, and I find it 428 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 3: absolutely fascinating. 429 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: The other thing that I thought was interesting about this was, 430 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: I mean, even if Fox still is a lot, the 431 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 1: cable numbers are large people watching television. Cable television is 432 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: not a huge group right. I mean that's three hundred 433 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: and thirty million people in this country. 434 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 3: In terms of likely voters. There's going to be a 435 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 3: lot of TV watching, okay, I mean just real talk, 436 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 3: but this just being waged on people's phones. 437 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 1: Right. So that's why my point in this is that 438 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: you're really seeing that the audience of one ads are 439 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: affecting him because he's watching a lot of Fox News 440 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: and he doesn't like the negative ads. 441 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 3: He has said that before about us. I'm going to 442 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 3: sue the Lincoln Project and Fox for showing bad ads 443 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 3: about me. Okay, great, you should do that, don But 444 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 3: for all that, I think it's really important to understand 445 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 3: that again, this is another sign of Trump's incredible weaknesses. 446 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 3: He's a broken, brained, sick old man. The campaign isn't. 447 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 3: It isn't the kind of thing that they had in 448 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 3: their heads in the beginning of this because they thought 449 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 3: it was going to be Joe Biden. They thought the 450 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 3: old man Joe was going to be easy to beat 451 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 3: and that nothing could go wrong. Well, as we've seen, 452 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 3: a lot can go wrong for Donald Trump, and so 453 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 3: much has gone wrong that it's hard to go through 454 00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 3: this thing and go, oh yeah, this is the logical 455 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 3: outcome for this campaign. It's going to be a psychotic 456 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 3: Trump looking more and more senile and deranged on stage 457 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 3: every day, and a competent, confident Kamala Harris out there 458 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 3: beating the doors down in what has frankly been a 459 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 3: quite good campaign. And one part of that good campaign 460 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 3: is again, they are running a field program. They are 461 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 3: running an operation. They're not outsourcing it to Charlie Kirk 462 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 3: the human flounder hybrid and Elon Musk. And by the way, 463 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 3: again just remember Elon Musk is using Ron DeSantis's political 464 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 3: team for this campaign. I mean, come on, really, it's 465 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 3: just like I keep going back to that. I'm like, no, 466 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 3: come on, he's kidding, right. These guys, the guys around 467 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 3: DeSantis were exceptional with de Santas at making. They spent 468 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 3: about two hundred million dollars and their profit margin was 469 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 3: about one hundred and sixty And they're going to do 470 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 3: the same thing to Elon. The greater fool theory is 471 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 3: playing out with Elon right this minute. 472 00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: Thank you, Rick Wilson. 473 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 3: You are welcome as always, my friend. 474 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: Are you concerned about Project twenty twenty five and how 475 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: awful Trump's second term could be. Well, so are we, 476 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: which is why we teamed up with iHeart to make 477 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,719 Speaker 1: a limited series with the experts on what a disaster 478 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five would be for America's future. Right now, 479 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: we have just released the final episode of this five 480 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: episode series. They're all available by looking up Molly John 481 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: Fast Project twenty twenty five on YouTube, and if you 482 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: are more of a podcast person and not say a YouTuber, 483 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,479 Speaker 1: you can hit play and put your phone in the 484 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: lock screen and it will play back just like a podcast. 485 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: All five episodes are online now. We need to educate 486 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: Americans on what Trump's second term would or could due 487 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: to this country, so please watch it and spread the word. 488 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: Bill Adair is the founder of PolitiFact and the author 489 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: of Beyond the Big Lie, The Epidemic of political Lie, 490 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: is why Republicans do it more and how it could 491 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: burn down our democracy. Welcome to Fast Politics. 492 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 5: Bill, Thank you for having me. 493 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 3: Molly. 494 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: I feel bad saying this to you, but I think 495 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 1: it is your field of expertise. As far as I 496 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: can tell, you are an expert on politicians lying. 497 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 5: It's an odd thing to be an expert in, but 498 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 5: I think that's a fair statement. 499 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 1: It's sort of one of those things where it's like 500 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: it is definitely true, but very relevant for this moment 501 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: in American life. So you've written a book, but you 502 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: have a long history of being a sort of source 503 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: for fact checking. So explain to us about that. 504 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 5: I wrote the book Beyond the Big Lie because I 505 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 5: have a long history. I guess you could say I 506 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 5: started off This actually goes back to when I was 507 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 5: in college. I was a student at Arizona State University, 508 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 5: and I wrote my senior independent study on the need 509 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 5: for more fact checking. And it was because I had 510 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 5: seen a lot of lies in campaigns curly in Arizona. 511 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 5: It had to do with a initiative that was on 512 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 5: the ballot to regulate hospitals, and I was just really 513 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 5: struck that the media was not doing fact checking. And 514 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 5: so I wrote a paper that said that the media 515 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 5: should do more fact checking. And so as I got 516 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 5: into journalism, I did lots of different kinds of journalism, 517 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 5: but was always somebody who was bored with the ordinary. 518 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,919 Speaker 5: And so by the time I got to Washington and 519 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 5: became a Washington reporter, I decided to sort of put 520 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 5: that passion to work because I felt covering Congress and 521 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 5: the White House, that there was not enough fact checking. 522 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 5: This was now two thousand and three, two thousand and four, 523 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 5: and so I went to my editors I was then 524 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 5: working for the Saint Petersburg Times, a newspaper in Florida, 525 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 5: and said let's start a fact checking website. And so 526 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 5: I started PolitiFact, and PolitiFact ended up becoming a great success. 527 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 5: It won the Pulitzer Prize. It spawned a lot of 528 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 5: other fact checking organizations, and we actually scaled it sort 529 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 5: of like a franchise restaurant. We had PolitiFact in different states, 530 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 5: and so I'm very proud of what we did. But 531 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 5: along the way, I saw a lot of politicians lying. 532 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 5: And so by the time I left PolitiFact and came 533 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 5: to Duke University, where I now work as a professor 534 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 5: of journalism and public Policy, I decided that I needed 535 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 5: to write a book, particularly because we had not been 536 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 5: completely honest with people about what we saw in the lying. 537 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's do a minute here to talk about that. 538 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: It feels to me like we are in the golden 539 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: age of political lying. 540 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 5: It's great to be in that moment, isn't it. Molly 541 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 5: Like we'll look back on this and we'll say it 542 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 5: was the Golden Age. 543 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: And you make a real point of pointing this out, 544 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: which is that it's not a both sides problem. Though 545 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: it's not that every Democrat doesn't lie, right, it's just 546 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: that Republicans have weaponized it in a way that Democrats 547 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: have not. Maybe they will someday, but I mean, do 548 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 1: you think that's a fair assessment? And say more? 549 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 3: Yes. 550 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 5: So Beyond the Big Line begins with a scene of 551 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 5: me on c Span. This is in twenty twelve, and 552 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 5: so I'm on c SPAN and it's one of these 553 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 5: call in shows, call a program called Washington Journal, and 554 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 5: a guy named Brian from Michigan calls in, and it's 555 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,640 Speaker 5: like and calling in on the Democratic line, Brian from Michigan, 556 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 5: what's your question for Bill Adair? And so Brian from 557 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 5: Michigan says, mister Adair, I read in the Nation that 558 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 5: if you add up your fact checking and also the 559 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 5: fact checking in the Washington Post, that Republicans lie more. 560 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 5: Is that true? And so I say, oh, Brian, we 561 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 5: don't keep score. If we kept score, that would be 562 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 5: like an umpire who would tell you if the Yankees 563 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 5: or the Red Sox are out more at home Plate. Well, 564 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 5: I was lying. We did keep score. We kept score 565 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 5: by politician. That was one of our innovations at PolitiFact. 566 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 5: And I knew because I had seen it, that Republican 567 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 5: politicians got more false and pants on fire ratings from 568 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 5: PolitiFact than Democrats did. And so I lied to Brian 569 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 5: from Michigan about lying. And so, reflecting on that, you know, 570 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 5: I've looked at why I said that. I said it 571 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 5: because one of the things fec checkers do is try 572 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 5: to deal with both sides, and we treasure our nonpartisanship 573 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 5: and we try to not show any favor for either side. 574 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,479 Speaker 5: And so we all duck that question. And so I 575 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 5: wasn't alone in ducking that question. Glenn Kessler, the Washington 576 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 5: Book fact checker, also has routinely ducked it. But I 577 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 5: wrote the book to be honest about that. And yes, Brian, 578 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 5: Republicans lie more, and so I wrote the book to 579 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 5: explore the patterns of lying, not just why Republicans lie more, 580 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 5: but why all politicians lie and what they get out 581 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 5: of it? 582 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: What do they get out of it? 583 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 5: It was fascinating, you know, I thought about all the 584 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 5: time I had spent as a Washington reporter. I'd covered Congress, 585 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 5: I'd covered the White House, I'd covered a lot of 586 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 5: state races for governor and attorney general, and I had 587 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 5: never heard a reporter ask a politician. 588 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 3: Why do you lie? 589 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 5: And yet we accept lying as sort of this inevitable 590 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 5: part of politics, but no one in the media ever 591 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 5: asks politicians about it, including me, And so I decided 592 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 5: to do that, And so I just would ask everyone 593 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 5: I interviewed, whether it was a politician, a political operative, 594 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 5: why do you lie? Or why do politicians lie? Now 595 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 5: most denied that they themselves lied, because you know, they're 596 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 5: all angels, but the answers liars, But the answers were interesting. 597 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 5: So the common theme overall was ambition. Politicians lie to 598 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 5: get ahead, and it's a calculation that they believe they're 599 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 5: going to gain more from a lie than they're going 600 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 5: to lose. And that's more true today, I believe, than 601 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 5: it used to be, because partisan media, jerrymandering, the echo 602 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 5: chamber have all combined to make it more rewarding to lie. 603 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 5: You're not going to pay a penalty for lying. In 604 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 5: the old days, a politician would feel shame for lying. 605 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 5: But now if you're in a Gerrymander district. If you're 606 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 5: only going on partisan media, you're not going to be 607 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 5: held accountable, most likely for your lives the other big Wise, 608 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 5: it sort of varies. It can be because you're lying 609 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 5: to raise money. You know, there's often you'll lie in 610 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 5: a fundraising appeal. People lie, they have self defense lies, 611 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 5: denying some misdeed that they're accused of. So those are 612 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 5: sort of the basics for that. Then I got into 613 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 5: why do Republicans lie more? And this was interesting because 614 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 5: I talked to a lot of Republicans and former Republicans 615 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 5: who were willing to be candid about this, and a 616 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 5: lot of them trace this to a turning point in 617 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 5: the early nineties when Newton Gingrich took over the House, 618 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 5: that that was a point when the culture changed. Others 619 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 5: took it a little farther back to Nixon and Roger 620 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 5: Ayles that that really changed the culture. The culture when hey, 621 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 5: we need to get ahead. It's okay to lie on 622 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 5: this one because we need to win this battle. One 623 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 5: Republican Congressman, Denver Riggleman from Virginia put it to me, 624 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 5: Republicans see their cause as part of this epic battle 625 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 5: and in that anything is justified. That really struck a 626 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 5: chord with me. And then one final thing that really 627 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 5: empowers the Republicans is conservative media very much not only 628 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 5: looks the other way when they lie, but echoes their 629 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 5: lies and often profits from them. We saw this after 630 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 5: the lies about the twenty twenty election, you know, Fox News, 631 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 5: because it didn't go along with the big lie about 632 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 5: the election lost viewers. 633 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: Right, So then they eventually did. 634 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 5: And recovered their ratings. So lying for Republicans is part 635 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 5: of the ecosystem. 636 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: So basically they lie because they. 637 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 5: Can, Yes, And I think that's more true today there 638 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 5: are fewer journalists that are holding them accountable. Local media 639 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,959 Speaker 5: has been depleted, the national media has also been depleted, 640 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 5: and so you don't have as many journalists that are 641 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 5: holding them accountable. 642 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: Yes, And I am so profoundly irritated by where we 643 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: find ourselves as a country. That could have been avoided 644 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: at every turn, had we just had a tiny bit 645 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: of foresight. So I want you now to go from 646 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: mainstream media, which is now a very small piece of 647 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 1: the pie, to social media, which is now a very 648 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: large piece of the pie, and make it make sense 649 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: when it comes to lying the trajectory where we are 650 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: right now, and also my head is going to explode. 651 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 3: You bet. 652 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 5: I've got some ideas that actually some of them come 653 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 5: from my students. I taught a class at Duke called 654 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,320 Speaker 5: Lying in Politics, and the final assignment was to solve 655 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 5: the problem. Okay, you've spent a semester hearing about the 656 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 5: problem lying in politics. Come up with a solution that 657 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 5: could reduce lying, and several of them involved social media, 658 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 5: and one of my favorites was this simple. You have 659 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 5: to think about lying as sort of part of a 660 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 5: political economy. That politicians lie because it pays off. So 661 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,760 Speaker 5: what do politicians need advertising because they need to reach 662 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 5: their voters at election time, and so they depend tremendously 663 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 5: on social media companies and ad networks to reach those voters. 664 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 5: So what if one of my students said, the ad 665 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 5: networks and the social media companies charge differential ad rates 666 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 5: based on the track records that the politicians have with 667 00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 5: fact checkers. Very simply, and she created a scale charge 668 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 5: more to politicians who have worse records for lying, and 669 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 5: charge less lower rates for politicians who have good records. 670 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 5: And there's an incentive to lie less. Now you probably 671 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 5: also have to bolster political fact checking. You would also 672 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 5: want more fact checking from conservative media organizations. There is 673 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 5: some now from organizations like The Dispatch. There needs to 674 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 5: be more, but that could be done. To me, that's 675 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 5: a really intriguing idea. And you know, Facebook at one 676 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 5: time was bold about this, started the third party fact 677 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 5: checking program on other kinds of posts, not politicians. It 678 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 5: has exempted politicians from that program. But you know, if 679 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 5: Facebook got bold, if the ad network companies got bold, 680 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 5: this could happen. 681 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: Yes, Facebook is going to get bold against lying. It 682 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: has no incentives, all. 683 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 5: Right, all right, Okay, so that's dreaming, Molly. 684 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:02,799 Speaker 3: But you know it's like. 685 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: Maybe Republicans will stop lying. I mean, it's a completely 686 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 1: insane notion. You cannot stop lies with the carrot. You 687 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,359 Speaker 1: have to use a stick. I'm sorry, but go on, yes, 688 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: tell me or other idea. 689 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 5: All right, Well, here's another carot that works for Republicans 690 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,880 Speaker 5: in other ways. So a very powerful person in the 691 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 5: Republican Party is Grover Norquist, who runs Americans for Tax Reform. 692 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 5: So Grover has this way of pressuring Republicans not to 693 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:38,359 Speaker 5: raise taxes. They calls it the pledge Republican candidates and 694 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,880 Speaker 5: elected officials sign a pledge that they're not going to 695 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,959 Speaker 5: raise taxes, and it's incredibly effective and it's become part 696 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 5: of the culture of the Republican Party over the years. 697 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 5: It's been around for thirty years. So imagine if someone 698 00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 5: with Grover's clout took that same approach about lying and 699 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 5: had a very simple pledge that just said I'm not 700 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,880 Speaker 5: going to lie. You know, there's nothing in the Republican 701 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 5: Party's conservative doctrine and its foundational beliefs that means it 702 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 5: has to lie. It could turn around and say, hey, 703 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,799 Speaker 5: we're the Party of honesty, and it could challenge the 704 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 5: Democrats and say, you guys are a bunch of liars. 705 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 5: It could transform itself on this issue. There's really nothing 706 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 5: that means that the Republican Party has to be the 707 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 5: lying party that it is today. And I'd like to 708 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 5: challenge the Republican Party on that because it really has 709 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 5: nothing to do with the party's beliefs. 710 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,839 Speaker 1: Okay, hot take. The Republican Party is not lying as 711 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: much as they probably should if they want to win 712 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 1: this election. So let's play a game here. We know 713 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,240 Speaker 1: that Republicans want to ban abortion, at the federal level. 714 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: We know this to be true. Okay, maybe some Republicans 715 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,840 Speaker 1: say they don't. Maybe Trump in his head right now 716 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: doesn't want to. But we've seen that there's a lot 717 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: of machinations behind the scenes, including two of the Republican 718 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 1: Supreme Court justices Thomas and Alito, both of whom have 719 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 1: expressed a sort of willingness to ban methapristone using the 720 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,080 Speaker 1: Comstock Act. So we know that this is happening behind 721 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: the scenes, whether or not Trump is conscious of it. Again, 722 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,839 Speaker 1: like can't read his mind. This is a loser for Republicans. 723 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 1: Would be smarter for them just to lie. But as 724 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:36,000 Speaker 1: we saw in Georgia yesterday where they've re enacted the 725 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: six week ban, they cannot lie about this for whatever reason, 726 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 1: maybe because the base is so religious, maybe because this 727 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: is impossible to know, So talk to us about that, 728 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: because that's something where they'd be incentivized for lying, and 729 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 1: they're not well not lying in the zeal that you 730 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 1: could see them possibly. I mean, I've seen Republicans live 731 00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,720 Speaker 1: stuff in a much more brazen way, right. 732 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 5: Right, Or are they lying when they say they want 733 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 5: to allow states to make individual decisions to get back 734 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 5: to your original point. So you know, as a journalist, 735 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,800 Speaker 5: I'm skeptical every time I hear that, So that argues 736 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 5: against my optimism to be candid that because if indeed 737 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 5: you're right that they have a broader goal of outlawing 738 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 5: it on a national level, then we can't believe what 739 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 5: they're saying. And this gets to one of the challenges 740 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,279 Speaker 5: that fact checker's a friend was pointing out the other day, 741 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:37,240 Speaker 5: which is, if you're fact checking a Democratic claim about 742 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:41,400 Speaker 5: Trump and somebody says, well, Trump wants to do this 743 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,800 Speaker 5: on abortion, and the fact checkers say, well, he says 744 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 5: now that he doesn't want to do that, therefore half true. 745 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 5: And my friend pointed out, how can you believe this guy, 746 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 5: Donald Trump is the greatest liar in the history of 747 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 5: American politics, probably in the history of politics all over 748 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,920 Speaker 5: the world world, And so how can you do affect 749 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 5: check based on anything he says? Any of those prospective 750 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,479 Speaker 5: fact checks are really tough. And this has always been 751 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:18,279 Speaker 5: a challenge for political fact checkers because what we've done 752 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,399 Speaker 5: is said, well, one party will say, well, the other 753 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,560 Speaker 5: party wants to do this thing, and so the fact 754 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:29,160 Speaker 5: checkers will say, well, here's what that party has actually said. 755 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 5: But in the case of Trump, can you believe anything 756 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 5: he says? I have a hard time believing it. 757 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,040 Speaker 1: So interesting. Thank you so much for joining us. 758 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 5: Thank you for having me, Molly. This has been great. 759 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:47,960 Speaker 2: No moment second, Jesse Cannon, Molli Jung Fast. We were 760 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 2: talking about Elon's terrible pack before, but a lot of 761 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,919 Speaker 2: people have been really really jaw dropped at this being 762 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 2: one of the most gross things that's happened in this 763 00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 2: election cycle. 764 00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 3: What are you seeing here? 765 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,879 Speaker 1: Elon has this plan and he's going to target the 766 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: pro Israel voters and the pro Palestine voters by making 767 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: Harris look bad so to the Muslim population. He's running 768 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 1: an ad that portrays Harris as a fast friend of 769 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: Israel whose beliefs are tied to her Jewish husband. In 770 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:21,240 Speaker 1: the Jewish parts or the pro Israel parts, He's running 771 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 1: an AD that shows her as pro Palestinian. Look, this 772 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:31,520 Speaker 1: is so unsurprising, and it is trying to divide choose, 773 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 1: trying to divide people who are pro Palestine and trying 774 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,320 Speaker 1: to somehow serve Trump. And we all know that Trump 775 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,799 Speaker 1: will be worse on both Palestine and Israel. But of 776 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 1: course He is fast friends with Natan Yahoo and n 777 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,680 Speaker 1: Yaho would love to see him reelected. That's it for 778 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 1: this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, 779 00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:01,359 Speaker 1: Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics 780 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,719 Speaker 1: make sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast, 781 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. 782 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.