Speaker 1: Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in
Speaker 1: partnership with Higheartradioshas and Katie.
Speaker 2: Okay, So this episode is it's so kick ass that
Speaker 2: we have two kick ass guests to really hold it up.
Speaker 3: We're going to talk to Tony Goldwin.
Speaker 2: And then we've got the one and only Zahir McGhee,
Speaker 2: who is an incredible writer, and he's going to give
Speaker 2: us like a real some hot goss into like what
Speaker 2: the hell was going on in the writer's room and
Speaker 2: all those people's minds, what they thought of us, how
Speaker 2: much they loved hugging Quinn.
Speaker 3: Katie, You're not even in LA right now.
Speaker 2: I'm not in LA, and it's like, I miss you.
Speaker 1: I miss You's got a job somewhere outside of LA.
Speaker 3: Can you say where you are? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And it's going to come out soon. At the time
Speaker 2: of this recording, it was previous to the press release,
Speaker 2: but the press release will be coming out next week.
Speaker 2: And y'all, I'm in North Carolina. I'll play in a
Speaker 2: Texan and I have been working not to day on
Speaker 2: this accent. So apologies if I tend to be coming
Speaker 2: in and out of it.
Speaker 4: I like it.
Speaker 3: It's so cute.
Speaker 2: Oh thanks g. It's so ridiculous, so crazy, it's so fun.
Speaker 2: I mean, nobody will ever compare. It's so hard, isn't it,
Speaker 2: Like dal Scandal will never I've collected some wonderful artists
Speaker 2: and people on the jobs post Scandal. But you know,
Speaker 2: because I was the I was the baby and the
Speaker 2: youngest on Scandal, all the older people would always be like,
Speaker 2: this is lightning in a bottle. Nothing ever existed like this.
Speaker 2: Now I'm like, oh.
Speaker 3: Shit, yeah, it's true.
Speaker 1: I just did a guest spot on a show that's
Speaker 1: been on for seven seasons and same thing. I mean,
Speaker 1: they were all really nice and lovely, and you know
Speaker 1: they were they were running a tight ship. But it
Speaker 1: didn't have that energy that we had on our show
Speaker 1: that like fun, like you know what I mean. We
Speaker 1: were doing some intense stuff on the show, but we
Speaker 1: had so much fun with each other on set.
Speaker 2: You know, I have to say I did a show
Speaker 2: that I cannot say on this fucking podcast, like it
Speaker 2: was a hit show at the same time that Scandal
Speaker 2: was a hit show. But it won all the awards, okay,
Speaker 2: unlike Scandal, who did not win any which is fucking bullshit,
Speaker 2: But anyway, it won all the awards, and I have
Speaker 2: to say, people can deduct this. I did a couple
Speaker 2: id recurring on this show after Scandal, because I think
Speaker 2: it did like one or two more seasons after Scandal,
Speaker 2: and I just remember being on the set and like
Speaker 2: everybody was on their phones, and everyone was like wildly
Speaker 2: successful and like so famous, so they probably had like
Speaker 2: a lot to do, right, like they're just like so busy,
Speaker 2: and I just like looked around. I was like, I
Speaker 2: feel like on Scandal, we were literally hanging out all
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 1: And listen, there were moments where people were we were
Speaker 1: all on our phones, but then like Josh Molina, someone
Speaker 1: would get up and he'd grab somebody's phone and tweet
Speaker 1: I'm horny.
Speaker 3: Like we were like even you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: we were having a blast.
Speaker 2: Like we hung out likes and maybe yeah, and.
Speaker 3: We hung out a ton. Yeah on Saturday.
Speaker 2: We just like really were freaking tight. And it's really
Speaker 2: like it's like somebody you go to sleep away camp
Speaker 2: with or something. I feel like every time I see Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, thank god we get to see each
Speaker 2: other time, But even when I was texting Carrie and
Speaker 2: it feels exactly like it did seven years ago. Like
Speaker 2: it's when you go through something like that we've been through.
Speaker 2: It just feels like time picks up exactly where we
Speaker 2: last left off or something exactly.
Speaker 1: Maybe the people on these shows that we did didn't
Speaker 1: like us, Maybe we were the problem. Maybe they were like.
Speaker 2: Oh god, I think you're right.
Speaker 3: Just stay on my phone.
Speaker 4: This annoying.
Speaker 2: Here ever treated the guest stars like shit.
Speaker 3: No, we would treat them so nice. We treat them
Speaker 3: so nice.
Speaker 1: I remember every time a new person who would come on,
Speaker 1: I would make a point to be like, hey.
Speaker 3: Welcome, like we're so happy you're here, like you're great.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: Also, usually that guest star was like famous or had
Speaker 2: an unbelievable resume.
Speaker 5: That's true.
Speaker 2: He oh it rhymes it does. Here has is having
Speaker 2: technical difficulties, but he's our guest and we should have
Speaker 2: teased him better than it did. Because this is our
Speaker 2: very very first writer other than Shonda Rhymes herself, that
Speaker 2: we had had on this skin of Rewatch podcast.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, baby, I was just gonna say that here is
Speaker 1: one of those writers that it felt like he was
Speaker 1: like a peer, right, like it felt like he was
Speaker 1: like like one of the guys, like one of us,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It felt like he was
Speaker 1: just hanging out with us on set, and that it
Speaker 1: was always so much fun.
Speaker 4: MLA.
Speaker 3: Yes, just a.
Speaker 2: Few like writers that when they would come on said
Speaker 2: it wasn't like scary.
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: And now that I think about it, there were so
Speaker 1: many seven and I mean there was so many that.
Speaker 3: The best in I mean yes, yes, Matt Burn, yeah,
Speaker 3: were all great.
Speaker 2: Really, it was just it was just never when she
Speaker 2: did it was terrifying.
Speaker 1: Yes, because we were just trying to just be so
Speaker 1: good for her. We just wanted to make no mistakes.
Speaker 2: Hi, is it here? McGee? Here? McGee? You treasure of
Speaker 2: a human being that you are. We were saying, I
Speaker 2: don't know if you could hear it. You are our
Speaker 2: first writer that we have ever had on Unpacking the
Speaker 2: Toolbox other than Shonda Rhime's Queen Bee yourself.
Speaker 6: You know that that terrifies me, but thank you for
Speaker 6: having me.
Speaker 2: I know, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I don't know why.
Speaker 2: I think for listeners, listen here is a very, very
Speaker 2: key a writer to scandal. But I also think because
Speaker 2: we see each other like every morning at drop off
Speaker 2: with our kids. That I was like, here, you're very
Speaker 2: much at the forefront of my day to day. So yes,
Speaker 2: feel special, but also don't feel threatened, right.
Speaker 5: Don't still that threatened?
Speaker 3: It's us two goofballs.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: No, I've been a fan. I was so excited when
Speaker 6: when the podcast came out, and I've been able to
Speaker 6: listen here and there, and obviously like last week's episode
Speaker 6: was super awesome.
Speaker 2: Are you the biggest fan? Just tell us you're the
Speaker 2: biggest fan of the Scandal Latch podcast.
Speaker 6: I'm the biggest fan for sure, and huge fans of
Speaker 6: you guys. I mean, I've this is a ridiculous story,
Speaker 6: but both of you. I brought my mom out to
Speaker 6: the Image Awards. This was during season three, and both
Speaker 6: of you had very interesting interactions with her, and she
Speaker 6: was we were at the dinner the night before and
Speaker 6: Germo you kind of just on the way out like
Speaker 6: sort of hit me on the back, and then she
Speaker 6: was like, I have to meet him, and I was like,
Speaker 6: oh God, like I don't I work with these people,
Speaker 6: they're my colleagues. Like what I've but I like sprint
Speaker 6: over as you're trying to leave, and I'm like, Yo,
Speaker 6: my mom is gonna lose it. Please help me out.
Speaker 6: Whatever you did it, and I felt so bad. There's
Speaker 6: one hundred, one hundred and twenty people lined up at
Speaker 6: that point. You were this close to being done. And
Speaker 6: then I think I left. I think we left before you.
Speaker 6: And then which was incredible. And then Katie, you came
Speaker 6: over and talked to my mom for like thirty minutes. Okay,
Speaker 6: it was incredible, and then either we weren't.
Speaker 5: We won that year?
Speaker 2: I remember this.
Speaker 5: This was incredible. We won that year?
Speaker 6: We didn't when I can't remember, you guys were like
Speaker 6: leaving early in the cast, was going to go to dinner,
Speaker 6: and you guys, you came by again and you said
Speaker 6: goodbye to me, and you said goodbye to my mom.
Speaker 6: My mom looks at me. This is like an hour
Speaker 6: after you had talked to her for thirty minutes. She goes,
Speaker 6: who's that. I go, that's Quinn. We that's that's Katie.
Speaker 6: Oh and then she goes, well, why didn't you introduce
Speaker 6: to me earlier? And I know, are you kidding, lady?
Speaker 2: Did? She does?
Speaker 5: Not? Like?
Speaker 6: I mean, she just thought we were like friends.
Speaker 5: Yeah, right, like.
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? Like she didn't find because.
Speaker 6: We were just like catching up and Adam's there and whatever,
Speaker 6: and it's like we're old friends. So I don't think
Speaker 6: it zoned on her in the moment, but then after
Speaker 6: you win something or you're with the rest of the cast,
Speaker 6: then it was like, oh wow. But also I looked
Speaker 6: in her notes and she was writing down everyone she met. Okay,
Speaker 6: and it wasn't in her phone or in her phone,
Speaker 6: but it wasn't like Adris Elba. It was like guy
Speaker 6: from the Wire right, like man from her yeah, third
Speaker 6: man from Empire.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 3: But in her head she knew exactly who those people were.
Speaker 1: She was like, I know exactly who the guy, this
Speaker 1: third guy from Empire is.
Speaker 6: But the writer in me can't help but go to
Speaker 6: the next part, which is when she's talking to her
Speaker 6: sororities sources when she goes home. She doesn't say like
Speaker 6: Terrence Howard. She just says like guy from Empire, right,
Speaker 6: Like that's her list. She's just running down guy from Empire,
Speaker 6: you know, little girl from Quel.
Speaker 2: Proud of you, Like just take us really quickly, like
Speaker 2: how did you get the scandal job? How did you
Speaker 2: end up in Shondaland's universe and also was your mom?
Speaker 2: I mean, because I feel like my parents when people
Speaker 2: ask you what does your kid do and they tell
Speaker 2: you you're an actor and they're like, okay, great, like
Speaker 2: have I seen her in anything? And then when your
Speaker 2: parents are able to drop the scandal bomb such a flex, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I need to hear your whole origin Shondaland story.
Speaker 6: So it's a kind of an it's an interesting one
Speaker 6: that is pretty linear, so it's not interesting that way,
Speaker 6: just sort of the circumstance that sort of happened, which
Speaker 6: is I went to USC. I mean, i'll spare you
Speaker 6: sort of the other stuff, you know, working in the
Speaker 6: mortgage business and destroying that business and then deciding I
Speaker 6: wanted to.
Speaker 5: Be in TV and film.
Speaker 6: But I come and I go to USC crazy and
Speaker 6: interestingly enough, Shonda gave me my diploma in two thousand
Speaker 6: and nine. What like she was like the she was
Speaker 6: like the ambassador for the writing program, and so she
Speaker 6: gave out like the thirty diplomas to the writing students. Okay, great,
Speaker 6: A ton of stuff goes by. I get a job
Speaker 6: at the Image Awards. I'm just sort of like trying
Speaker 6: to write, trying to figure out what the next year
Speaker 6: is going to be. And then I did a couple
Speaker 6: like fellowship things and crappy jobs, and then I got
Speaker 6: a I got into the Disney Fellowship. So I was
Speaker 6: one of the eight writers picked for that in twenty ten.
Speaker 6: So that's obviously amazing because you get they pay your
Speaker 6: salary right and they're paying you a certain amount and
Speaker 6: it was like fifty K, which at that point I
Speaker 6: was like, oh my god, are you kidding. I remember
Speaker 6: I bought a pair of glasses and I was like,
Speaker 6: I'm gonna buy a pair of two hundred dollars glasses.
Speaker 5: I've made it, you know, that's big. That was amazing.
Speaker 6: And then so then I you go up for these shows,
Speaker 6: and I was up for a job on Private Practice,
Speaker 6: and I met with these guys Craig and Steve Craig
Speaker 6: Turk and Steve Blackman and then Hammer also Mark Wilding,
Speaker 6: who was you know, worked with us on Scandal as well.
Speaker 6: So I met with both of them for a job
Speaker 6: on Grays Anatomy and Private Practice. So to meet with
Speaker 6: my to bring it back to my mom, I call afterwards,
Speaker 6: She's like, how did it go? And then I'm like, oh,
Speaker 6: I don't know, I think it went well, and she's like, god,
Speaker 6: I really hope it's Great's anatomy. I'm like, okay, great.
Speaker 6: So anyway, I get the job on Private Practice. I
Speaker 6: called my mom and I'm like, hey, Mom, I got
Speaker 6: the job on Private Practice. But I will say that's
Speaker 6: the show I wanted for reasons that I just sort
Speaker 6: of like Craze just felt like such a juggernaut at
Speaker 6: that point, Like I just thought, like I just envisioned
Speaker 6: like I'm going to get like eaten by a whale
Speaker 6: or you know, I'm Charius with wax wings or something.
Speaker 5: But it was just not going to end well.
Speaker 6: And yeah, so Private was this incredibly awesome experience. And
Speaker 6: I don't even know where I got the courage to say, did.
Speaker 3: You start on right? Did you write Katie's episode?
Speaker 5: Wait? Which one? Katie? Which one?
Speaker 2: Did you Doatie is the lead guest star season four.
Speaker 2: The premiere episode where I yep.
Speaker 5: In the car you left the baby in the car.
Speaker 2: I left that baby in the car to exphyxiate and die.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you wanted another baby and.
Speaker 2: I wanted another baby. And the director was what's his name?
Speaker 2: Who directed scandal to help Oh god, god, you know
Speaker 2: Tanker Tinker directed it and that was my first experience
Speaker 2: in Shondalin too. Did you write on that episode?
Speaker 6: I was definitely, I mean I was there that season.
Speaker 6: I definitely didn't write the premiere. I'm sure that had
Speaker 6: to be Shonda and one of the other head Honchos.
Speaker 6: I was a staff writer at that point. I remember
Speaker 6: that being a big story that we were really into
Speaker 6: because that was that show was like moral like ethical debates. Right,
Speaker 6: So you had come back to us and said you
Speaker 6: want to have a baby.
Speaker 2: Anyway, So then how do you go from private practice
Speaker 2: to scandal?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 6: So I remember in season six and private was an awesome,
Speaker 6: awesome experience with awesome, awesome people. And we got to
Speaker 6: season six and I wrote I'd written an episode earlier
Speaker 6: in the year, and then I wrote another episode like
Speaker 6: episode six eleven, which was like two before we were done.
Speaker 6: And I just remember at the table read Shonda like
Speaker 6: walks by me and like goes like, we need to
Speaker 6: talk about your future, and.
Speaker 4: I'm like, my future, the future.
Speaker 6: But I was excited about it, but really you're also
Speaker 6: like what does future mean?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 6: Like that could be like you're done here right, Like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5: So I was like a.
Speaker 6: Complete cycle and I was a complete psychopath about this.
Speaker 6: I just was like I show up before everyone, and
Speaker 6: I leave later than everyone. I was in like that
Speaker 6: mode for sure, which would come as a shock to
Speaker 6: my colleagues at Scandal over the like at the end
Speaker 6: of our Scandal run, But at that.
Speaker 2: Point you'd been doing fucking fourteen years. Yeah, you're just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's fine.
Speaker 6: So we go totally. And so then one day she like,
Speaker 6: well I can picture it so clearly. She walks by
Speaker 6: and she like pokes her in, but she continues on
Speaker 6: to her office. Then she like kind of comes back
Speaker 6: and then she sits down and she just goes, do
Speaker 6: you want to go work on Scandal? And I think
Speaker 6: I made some jokes that didn't didn't land, and I
Speaker 6: was like, frankly though, terrified, like you know, in this business,
Speaker 6: like you want to like make it. I don't know
Speaker 6: how you guys felt like when you were on Scandal,
Speaker 6: but like you want the train to start moving. But
Speaker 6: then sometimes point you're like, oh, man, do I have
Speaker 6: control of this?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 6: Like is it going to stop again? Am I going
Speaker 6: to catch my bearings?
Speaker 5: Right? Like?
Speaker 6: Is this all moving too fast. So I was kind
Speaker 6: of in my head like, oh crap, like whatever. We
Speaker 6: all know the money is like never, never, ever enough.
Speaker 6: But at the time, I'm like, I've made more money
Speaker 6: than I ever thought I would make in my life,
Speaker 6: Like I can't wait to chill, figure out what I
Speaker 6: want to write, like take six months off, like I
Speaker 6: don't know, like life something like that. And then you're
Speaker 6: like that opportunity. I made some dumb joke and then
Speaker 6: of course the answer was yes. The crazy part was
Speaker 6: I had to like catch up real time. So the
Speaker 6: last two weeks of Private Practice before we end, I'm
Speaker 6: moving immediately to Scandal in mid season, right, you.
Speaker 5: Guys, yeah, season two?
Speaker 6: So you guys, Wow, I come, you've shot everything you
Speaker 6: probably shot the first eight and season two, which is
Speaker 6: when the show is like, oh wow, skyrocketing out of
Speaker 6: control or not.
Speaker 4: I don't know what's.
Speaker 6: Aired yet, so I don't know if we were like
Speaker 6: in like hit zone on the area or if.
Speaker 2: You guys you were talking like the storylines.
Speaker 5: The storyline.
Speaker 6: So I'm like, there's you know, there's robot guns, hawks,
Speaker 6: you know, accues of this and whatever. I'm like, Meanwhile,
Speaker 6: I was writing a doctor show about like who left
Speaker 6: a baby in a car and we're going to get
Speaker 6: someone another baby, and like doctors are like making out
Speaker 6: a little bit, you know, like who's going to touch
Speaker 6: you tonight? On private Practice. It's like all sort of
Speaker 6: like fun and wonderful and I love it. And then
Speaker 6: I'm like like, oh no, this is so intense, you know,
Speaker 6: so we have to read them back to back to back.
Speaker 6: We get to episode ten and you guys are having
Speaker 6: the writer's table read for episode ten, which is of
Speaker 6: course like an infamous, notorious, amazing episode of Scandal in
Speaker 6: which Tony I believe that's one where you know, chokes Verna.
Speaker 2: What happened?
Speaker 5: But he kills he kills Verna.
Speaker 3: Oh shit, that's a great one.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So I go in and I go hey, I email
Speaker 6: Sean and I say, is it okay if I come
Speaker 6: to the writer's table read? Otherwise I know the scripts
Speaker 6: aren't distributed. I'm like, I have to be caught up
Speaker 6: for when I get in the room.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you might as well come to the read. Yeah.
Speaker 6: So I come to the read with the writers only though,
Speaker 6: so I'm meeting the writer.
Speaker 2: Everyone listened to this. This is new knowledge for this podcast,
Speaker 2: which I didn't find out till later, Jada, did you
Speaker 2: know this that they would do a writer's table read
Speaker 2: where they would play our parts before we would get
Speaker 2: the script. Are you seriously serious? Like Jenna Bands one
Speaker 2: of the wonderful writers I was going to like always
Speaker 2: read Quinn. I didn't know this until like season two
Speaker 2: or three or Jenna was like, oh, what the writer's
Speaker 2: table I was like, what the what the fuck is
Speaker 2: the writer's table read? But it's like every writer, like
Speaker 2: I think, you know, Jess Brownell always played Quinn I
Speaker 2: think too in later years, like they would read it
Speaker 2: amongst themselves to see like what was working or not
Speaker 2: before we got it.
Speaker 3: Who played Hu? Who played.
Speaker 5: I Can?
Speaker 6: In the later seasons, Wan did a lot of Huck
Speaker 6: I think nice for sure.
Speaker 5: Mon Carlos, who was our.
Speaker 6: Script cordinator for for an incredibly long time the early seasons,
Speaker 6: I can't remember.
Speaker 2: To do Joe? Didn't you do Papa Pope?
Speaker 6: I did a lot of Joe stuff over the course
Speaker 6: of my time there, But you really had to get
Speaker 6: into it, you know, and like it was like you really,
Speaker 6: I mean, this is something that like I'm sure you
Speaker 6: guys have talked about on the show too, and watching
Speaker 6: this episode, I felt the same way, which is like
Speaker 6: the passion that you guys had at the table and
Speaker 6: then every single thing. I mean I used to say
Speaker 6: to Joe sometimes to be like, oh my god, thank
Speaker 6: you for making that sound normal or making that sound
Speaker 6: like it was something that was like profound because like
Speaker 6: you're writing and going like oh no, and we we
Speaker 6: are not. You guys were just sort of insular, insecure writers,
Speaker 6: so like it's a lot to really like sell it.
Speaker 6: But at the same time, like part of what made
Speaker 6: the scripts alive too was everything was sort of a
Speaker 6: cell job, not a cell job in like a.
Speaker 2: Mad way, but you had to commit. If you didn't commit,
Speaker 2: if you didn't commit to the situation, in the circumstance
Speaker 2: with what you've got, like it fell flat and you
Speaker 2: guys can't put it just sort of A lot of
Speaker 2: other shows have been on at the table reads, like
Speaker 2: actors sort of like happy mumbling like I don't even
Speaker 2: know if the Fu's going on the relationship. I swear
Speaker 2: to god, these scane table reads and it sounds like
Speaker 2: these writers reads they were like a fucking broadly Yeah,
Speaker 2: they were playing for like a three hundred seat fucking audience,
Speaker 2: like it was crazy?
Speaker 3: Would you reads? Did they tape your reads for you guys?
Speaker 4: It?
Speaker 6: Yeah, it would be an interesting exercise for absolutely no
Speaker 6: one to do this. But if you guys saw the
Speaker 6: scripts that we read for uh, you know, with Shanda,
Speaker 6: for Shonda, they would be so different than what you
Speaker 6: guys got. And then eventually what made it to air.
Speaker 6: You guys know that we were sort of always working,
Speaker 6: you know, yeah, and so did they tape them?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 6: And frankly, we were just not at the caliber, of
Speaker 6: course of what you guys were doing. But we just
Speaker 6: tried our best and it was just fun to write.
Speaker 2: I'd pay to see your Joe Moore, pay to see
Speaker 2: your Papa Hope. Okay, so wait, so Seana lets you
Speaker 2: into the writer's room on the big Verna death episode. Yes,
Speaker 2: and what happens we read this?
Speaker 6: I am I must be sweating, like I must be
Speaker 6: visibly sweating, just like being like I'm just completely like,
Speaker 6: I'm just like this is so insane, I can't do it.
Speaker 6: And then all I remember, like so in my cold sweat.
Speaker 6: They get to the end and it's just like this
Speaker 6: table red does crack, right, like these guys like it's
Speaker 6: a crazy episode. Everyone sells it, everyone seems really happy
Speaker 6: about it. And then on the way out at the door,
Speaker 6: she's like, so what do you think? And I'm like,
Speaker 6: what is the right answer here? And I was just
Speaker 6: like all I could come up with was like basically like, damn,
Speaker 6: that's crazy, Like that's.
Speaker 5: All I got. So now I can tell you.
Speaker 6: I go back to private practice that day to like
Speaker 6: finish work there, and I'm like talking to all the
Speaker 6: writers there and I'm like, I am going crazy. I'm
Speaker 6: not going to be able to do this. This is
Speaker 6: so out of my league, like just sort of not
Speaker 6: out of my league, but like just sort of like
Speaker 6: different than just this. It didn't feel like it. And
Speaker 6: then so they're just like, it's December. I started in December.
Speaker 6: They're like, it's December. You'll just like go there. It's
Speaker 6: two weeks before Christmas. Break you like, you know, you
Speaker 6: know how to like pitch shit, you know how to
Speaker 6: like whatever, get to know everyone see what the vibe
Speaker 6: is like, it's the train is already moving.
Speaker 5: They already know what they're doing.
Speaker 6: I show up day one, walking to the room, I
Speaker 6: turned the corner and Mark fishes standing there. He's like, oh, hey,
Speaker 6: I heard you were coming. I'm like, oh yeah, my
Speaker 6: name's I here. It's nice to me. He was like
Speaker 6: so happy to have you here. We you know, we
Speaker 6: really need to use your brain since we don't have
Speaker 6: anything broken for the back half.
Speaker 5: And you're like, I'm sorry.
Speaker 7: Shit, and you're like literally, I know, and you're just
Speaker 7: sort of like, oh, I thought it was chow for
Speaker 7: two weeks and then the next day with basically like
Speaker 7: everyone come in with your conspiracy for the back half,
Speaker 7: and like conspiracy, I'm like, I don't know, like a
Speaker 7: I don't know a baby was born at twenty six
Speaker 7: weeks and I don't.
Speaker 6: Know, Like that's gonna work here.
Speaker 2: That is so crazy. I for the listeners, yeah, all
Speaker 2: the listeners, Like, I think we've touched on this before,
Speaker 2: but it's so great to have to hear on this.
Speaker 2: But like, Scandal is so different than I think how
Speaker 2: other episodic TV shows go. Where they would start a
Speaker 2: season and like the whole season is broken, right, like
Speaker 2: you know, the general arc for everybody's character, all the
Speaker 2: big beats you're going to pay, you know, see, and
Speaker 2: this it's just really about getting me a to B
Speaker 2: two seed on Scandal. The reason I think that the
Speaker 2: show felt so like gun to your head OMG moments
Speaker 2: is because you guys were figuring them out in real
Speaker 2: time correct deadlines.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I'm always look, look, we definitely knew
Speaker 6: I mean, we definitely knew big stuff, right, Like, there
Speaker 6: was stuff that we sort of talked about, and there
Speaker 6: were things that were sort of in the air, and
Speaker 6: some you know, directors from Shonda and vice versa that
Speaker 6: were kind of you tried to lean towards those, right,
Speaker 6: But yeah, a lot of it did was super organic,
Speaker 6: and a lot of it felt like responsive in a
Speaker 6: lot of ways, and a lot of it was just
Speaker 6: sort of like coming up with the best idea and
Speaker 6: one thing that works incredibly. Like in addition to you
Speaker 6: guys really just being super talented and committed to everything,
Speaker 6: was that room was like forgetting the crazy, like the
Speaker 6: story and the type of story we're doing, and it's
Speaker 6: just sort of like thrillery, fast paced thing and we're
Speaker 6: doing eighty scenes and crazy stuff. You know, the talent
Speaker 6: in that room, right, Like, I mean, Jenna and I
Speaker 6: want to hear about that, and Alan and you know,
Speaker 6: Hammer and Mark Fish and you know, Paul Chris, you know,
Speaker 6: like like we're talking about like eight nine show runners
Speaker 6: right who were going to go on to run the shows,
Speaker 6: and so like Heather, you know what I mean, Like like.
Speaker 2: It's just under there talking about such heavy hitters, where
Speaker 2: like there was no everybody, there were no brilliant in
Speaker 2: their own right, and every writer in there was capable
Speaker 2: of having eight thousand shows than their own brain. Like
Speaker 2: it was. So it's amazing.
Speaker 6: Super talented, not a bad writer in the bunch.
Speaker 2: Explain to our listeners that Scandal also wasn't written like
Speaker 2: even though there was somebody's name on each episode, is
Speaker 2: Scandal different from other shows? And that a lot of
Speaker 2: episodes were like a group effort, like you take a scene,
Speaker 2: you take a scene, you take a scene or was
Speaker 2: it not like that? And I'm remembering incorrectly.
Speaker 6: Well, I don't know how much of this is the
Speaker 6: public of knowledge or whatever. Absolutely, I'll say absolutely in
Speaker 6: terms of comparing it to the other shows I've worked on,
Speaker 6: one thousand percent, far and away the most collaborative show
Speaker 6: I've worked on.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 2: That's so cool. God, it sounds like your writer's room
Speaker 2: was like kind of similar to our cast, which is
Speaker 2: so interesting and for all of you guys too, Like,
Speaker 2: so you would have your own office, each writer had
Speaker 2: their own office, and then you would have like a
Speaker 2: group like living room out room. Am I making this up?
Speaker 2: Or was it a conference table?
Speaker 3: Like are you?
Speaker 2: And then would you gather every day and like break
Speaker 2: it together and then like go off to your own
Speaker 2: offices and then like is that I don't I don't
Speaker 2: know about this world at all.
Speaker 6: Oh well, it's different on every show, And just going
Speaker 6: back to what I was saying before, it is, without question,
Speaker 6: this was the most collaborative environment that I worked in.
Speaker 6: But by and large, I've only only twice have I
Speaker 6: worked in conference table writers rooms, and they just make
Speaker 6: me out. I'm a big like just like couch an
Speaker 6: individual table thing. I'm also like a little bit of
Speaker 6: like a psychotic have to be in the same seat.
Speaker 6: I can't concentrate if I Yeah.
Speaker 5: It's weird, but I get that.
Speaker 6: But so we have a writer's room, so we have
Speaker 6: obviously we have our offices, and then we have a
Speaker 6: writer's room. Scandal was a hugely room heavy show. So
Speaker 6: we were there in the room, you know, anywhere between
Speaker 6: six to ten hours more sometimes and we did everything together.
Speaker 1: I wonder you were so fucking keeping track of these
Speaker 1: times lines and fucking just the storylines and everything right
Speaker 1: like that, the research because it was even hard for
Speaker 1: us to keep track. We would do scenes and I'd
Speaker 1: be like, Katie, I don't know, like what what has
Speaker 1: happened to?
Speaker 2: Like what's happening each other?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 6: If someone said to me, explain one conspiracy from scandal
Speaker 6: beginning to end right now, and I'll give you like
Speaker 6: five million, right, I really do it? Yeah, they to
Speaker 6: kidnapp your entire quin, are going to kidnap your entire
Speaker 6: family and torture them, But you're nothing. Give me the
Speaker 6: Mole storyline beginning to end accurately, I'd be like, I'm sorry,
Speaker 6: my god, no idea the Mole.
Speaker 2: We just went through that, and I was like, what,
Speaker 2: there's thorn Gate, there's thorn Gate, there's Mole. There's a
Speaker 2: war of a of a made up country that I
Speaker 2: can't cash bar cash bar, Like how did you make up? Also?
Speaker 2: How did you come it? Oh my god, we have
Speaker 2: to talk about this episode, but I'm like obsessed with that.
Speaker 2: This is so interesting to like how you made up.
Speaker 2: You remember we who made up like the like Gettysburger,
Speaker 2: or like a staple right, or like the Beaujolais wine,
Speaker 2: which is a bullshit name of a wine. Like these
Speaker 2: were things that I'm like, who the fuck made this
Speaker 2: shit up?
Speaker 6: Well, the as much as we've talked about how awesome
Speaker 6: the job is, the job is like really hard also,
Speaker 6: and it's like a lot of pressure, as I've sort
Speaker 6: of talked about, So I think a lot of what
Speaker 6: we did was you are entertaining one another who you
Speaker 6: your brothers and sisters who are like sort of living
Speaker 6: with every day. So I used to remember like who
Speaker 6: did what? Like even watching this episode, I can kind
Speaker 6: of be like, oh, I remember who wrote the scene
Speaker 6: or you know, whatever the case may be, Oh for sure,
Speaker 6: and who came up with this pitch? And names were
Speaker 6: the way that we always entertained one another, Like even
Speaker 6: in the episode three ten, there's some like her her
Speaker 6: one of her aliases is like Margo Bouvier and I
Speaker 6: was like, yeah, I know that was a joke. I
Speaker 6: don't know who was the mag laugh, but like whatever,
Speaker 6: So Gettysburger, I don't know, but it's usually like what
Speaker 6: happens is if if we go off to write, you know,
Speaker 6: and you come back and someone as a scene, they'll
Speaker 6: just have it in the scene, and it's just something
Speaker 6: that when we do the writer's table, everyone goes, you know,
Speaker 6: like just loses their mind sticks and you're like whatever, yeah,
Speaker 6: or it's something that you know, China comes back to
Speaker 6: the room with and she'll say and it sticks, and
Speaker 6: it's just you kind of know what those moments are
Speaker 6: going to be, and then a lot of the things
Speaker 6: surprise you with Scandal, so it really was like again
Speaker 6: like super collaborative, like some of the big stuff like
Speaker 6: thinking about like Maya chewing her arms off or you
Speaker 6: know whatever to get out of prison two episodes before,
Speaker 6: you're like, I can remember so clearly how he came
Speaker 6: up with that. And again it's just again the sort
Speaker 6: of like organic semi organic, because there is the gun
Speaker 6: of the deadline to your head, but it's in a
Speaker 6: lot of I hate to say stuff like this, but
Speaker 6: like in a lot of ways, it just felt like magic.
Speaker 2: You know, we will be back with more after the break.
Speaker 2: Are there like your top three moments that you feel
Speaker 2: like you either wrote or you know co wrote very
Speaker 2: more like more like they were a scene heavy that
Speaker 2: you really touched with your talent that you're so proud of.
Speaker 6: Is my mom? What did my mom think of Scandal?
Speaker 6: She loved Scandal, and I think she loved you know
Speaker 6: that the cachet that.
Speaker 4: It brought her.
Speaker 6: At home, my dad was always like kind of played
Speaker 6: this role of like I don't watch that, Like why
Speaker 6: the man's the president of the United States and he's
Speaker 6: willing to give all that up for her, you know,
Speaker 6: like he just was in like super masculine.
Speaker 5: That's realistic. That's not realistic, you wouldn't do that. Then
Speaker 5: I went home one.
Speaker 6: Time and I was out of the room and my
Speaker 6: dad's phone just kept going off, and I'm like, this
Speaker 6: is so annoying, this is so annoying, Like why isn't
Speaker 6: this man here old people who leave their ringer on,
Speaker 6: Like why can't it.
Speaker 5: Just be onside of it?
Speaker 6: And then I go over to finally shut it off,
Speaker 6: and it just is an alarm for Scandal. So like
Speaker 6: she would remind himself too much, So he would pretend
Speaker 6: to me that he didn't watch, but then he.
Speaker 3: Was like, I gotta watch my son show.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And so in terms of like the things and I'll
Speaker 6: just sort of say the things I'm proud of.
Speaker 2: And yes, you know, think of the episodes.
Speaker 6: It doesn't even have to be a moment, right, I
Speaker 6: mean everything in the lawn Chair is like obviously like
Speaker 6: the fact that we pulled that together. You know, everything
Speaker 6: about that episode. I'm so grateful for, you know, my
Speaker 6: own contributions and Cornelius coming into the show and that
Speaker 6: episode and the speech of the on that episode.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wow, So here's episode Like that episode is one of
Speaker 2: the all time greatest, most prolific, and we are having
Speaker 2: you back on it will be you and Courtney b
Speaker 2: Vance who are here. This is so so interesting. I'm
Speaker 2: so interested in this, Like I can't even tell you,
Speaker 2: but we're going to talk about three ten really quick,
Speaker 2: because I know you were on set and I know
Speaker 2: you remember a lot of this episode and you watched.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you're the greatest. Okay, we are talking
Speaker 2: today about episode three ten, a door Marked Exit, which
Speaker 2: aired on December twelfth, twenty thirteen, and.
Speaker 1: It was written by Zahir McGhee and directed by Tom Vericka,
Speaker 1: The Tom Verica.
Speaker 2: It was guest starring Candy Alexander Asmya Lewis, Julia cho Is,
Speaker 2: Shelby moss.
Speaker 1: Erica Schaeffer's anchor, and Paul Adostein as Leo Bergen.
Speaker 2: And how do you feel about reading in scandalpace?
Speaker 1: Sometimes we'll ask our guests if they want to read
Speaker 1: the synopsis and scandal pasce do not feel pressure. Me
Speaker 1: and Katie fuck it up all the time, but sometimes
Speaker 1: it's fun. Something you could say no and we'll read
Speaker 1: it like it's all good.
Speaker 6: I'm happy to give it a try.
Speaker 5: This will be.
Speaker 2: Embarrassing, Yeah, try here here, Okay.
Speaker 5: All right.
Speaker 6: As Olivia races to learn everything she can about her
Speaker 6: mother's past in the Plane Land, Cyrus works to cover
Speaker 6: up Sally Lankson's the Murderous Night, Fitz has plans of
Speaker 6: his own when he kidnaps Elive Pope to get information
Speaker 6: about the plane, but Olivia is the one to deliver
Speaker 6: the news her dad was tricked by my into having
Speaker 6: fits destroy the plane. And even more and even more
Speaker 6: information is revealed when NSA. When an NSA couder brings
Speaker 6: a recording of Sally and to David Rose.
Speaker 2: The way I've done it, then two paid actors over,
Speaker 2: Yes that was? And why there isn't a tape of
Speaker 2: you doing the writers fucking read through his playing top
Speaker 2: of hope is upsetting there? Who tell me? I honestly
Speaker 2: think just breaking down. Like favorite moments of this episode.
Speaker 2: I think Sally Langston's monologues and fucking fight with Daniel
Speaker 2: Douglas is like the best theater acting I've ever seen,
Speaker 2: like in my life, Like she's screaming and then she's
Speaker 2: like she is un believed.
Speaker 1: I want to know who the writer is that wrote that,
Speaker 1: Who is the demented? Like that is hate filled soul
Speaker 1: and spirit that he tapped.
Speaker 2: Into that like Piggy pig Like, who's ridiculous?
Speaker 6: God, I do remember all this. I think fry little Piggy,
Speaker 6: Pry Piggy. He was Matt Burne for sure. And then
Speaker 6: this is the first one I really don't remember. I
Speaker 6: mean I usually defaulted in these areas when they're in
Speaker 6: when it's incredible, and I can't remember that. Obviously it
Speaker 6: was Shonda so but also what made that sick right
Speaker 6: is the editing right, Like the way that that's sort
Speaker 6: of edited is incredible. And I remember watching Matt Ramsey
Speaker 6: was our editor who cut this episode. It was with
Speaker 6: you know, he worked on private practice, and he worked
Speaker 6: in Shona Land for incredibly long time. And I remember
Speaker 6: after the table read, Shanda just said to him, like,
Speaker 6: can we make it like kind of weird? Like she
Speaker 6: like they had a shorthand about like he kind of knew.
Speaker 6: And he also had the you know, carte blanche in
Speaker 6: some ways to make something that was like a little
Speaker 6: bit like you were really seeing that that kind of
Speaker 6: stuff on broadcast TV.
Speaker 2: Like that first it was filmic. It was it was
Speaker 2: like a movie.
Speaker 1: I was just saying really quickly, Like in the opening scene,
Speaker 1: there were shots of like Sally Langston's feet, like her
Speaker 1: taking her shoes off, and then you would hear dialogue
Speaker 1: and they would cut to a close up of their
Speaker 1: face but they weren't talking, and it was it was
Speaker 1: just so so interesting.
Speaker 3: But yeah, that camera work was ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Oliver is so great. We have to have Oliver on.
Speaker 1: We will, I'm sure at some point.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we have to have him on. I mean you,
Speaker 2: we have to have him on.
Speaker 6: It looks so good, it's edited so good, and the
Speaker 6: performances are so insane, and the writing is so good.
Speaker 6: And what I loved about sort of all the scenes
Speaker 6: in the show. And this was like indicato of the
Speaker 6: right of the bat, which is like it's never like
Speaker 6: a one person says there's whatever and the other person
Speaker 6: comes back or they kill It's like it's like you
Speaker 6: think it can't go any higher, right, Like you think
Speaker 6: you can't possibly get any more, And like the part
Speaker 6: I love she said the thing like you're my original sin,
Speaker 6: Like you are stupid. What you have given me is
Speaker 6: a daughter who can't keep her legs closed.
Speaker 5: Oh shit, like about our own daughter, Yeah, about her
Speaker 5: own toter.
Speaker 6: You're well, you can't, you can't top that. And then
Speaker 6: she's like, I can't wait until you try to judge
Speaker 6: for your lives. But then he comes back with something right,
Speaker 6: So it's like two like opponents. The scenes are always
Speaker 6: like these two opponents who are going back and forth,
Speaker 6: and it leads to that thing like I just thought
Speaker 6: she was just so good in the entire episode, and
Speaker 6: I'm also like good. Can you imagine having drinking every time?
Speaker 6: There was a biblical reference in this episode, Oh.
Speaker 2: My god, alcohol poisoning. You would need to have your
Speaker 2: stomach palms, you would be at a hospital and you
Speaker 2: would be dead. It was unbelievable. Speaking about the alcohol,
Speaker 2: we always talk about we have to talk about the scenes,
Speaker 2: but we always talk about eating and actors'ing our favorite
Speaker 2: And in this episode, I was like, there's a scene
Speaker 2: Olivia Pope is literalus. I used to be like, wow,
Speaker 2: they really make fun of Olivia Pope drinking like really
Speaker 2: big wine glasses, And in this episode was the first
Speaker 2: time that we're like, that's the biggest fucking red wine
Speaker 2: glass I have ever seen. Like it was a goblet.
Speaker 2: It was absolutely ridiculous, and you know it was delicious
Speaker 2: grape juice. Okay, here what other scenes in this episode
Speaker 2: just stick out to you? Performance wise?
Speaker 5: I can't.
Speaker 6: I could not stop watching Jeff just like bounce around things,
Speaker 6: like he's just like just and even the just the
Speaker 6: number of things yes today, Like can you guys sort
Speaker 6: of highlight the scene with him and Melly is like
Speaker 6: so incredible, But just when he comes in and brings
Speaker 6: the doctor in, like it's almost like born like insane comedy,
Speaker 6: Like just he's so good and so tense.
Speaker 1: And it's honestly like a farce or something.
Speaker 2: He feels like so crazy and.
Speaker 6: You can watch when she's like he's like Sally, do
Speaker 6: you think Daniel Douglas wants this? And you can see
Speaker 6: like he's about to explode if she doesn't do this.
Speaker 6: That was really incredible, I thought. I mean, I also
Speaker 6: had worked with him so long in private practice that like,
Speaker 6: I just loved Paul in everything.
Speaker 2: We believe that Leo Bergen is Leobergen for me personally
Speaker 2: is one of my all time favorite Scandal characters, fucking
Speaker 2: hands down, and he is. He's my one of my
Speaker 2: favorite lines in this when he says when he says
Speaker 2: he says something to Sally that's like, yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he just well he he susses it out right,
Speaker 6: like she screams, you know, Danga Douglas is a sodomite,
Speaker 6: and he's like, oh crap.
Speaker 5: He's like you you killed him.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you killed him, and like that I remember, I
Speaker 6: can't remember who pitched it, but I remember it being
Speaker 6: like he's excited, like we can fix this, we can
Speaker 6: we can still win. And so then he's like, yeah,
Speaker 6: you called the White House, like your sin is not
Speaker 6: the murder, your sin I mean, and that's like, no,
Speaker 6: the sin is that you didn't give me the opportunity
Speaker 6: to win this cleanly. If you had just called me,
Speaker 6: I would control the situation right because he knows where
Speaker 6: the power lies. And then you were scenes you guys together,
Speaker 6: particularly when you come back, and he sort of that's.
Speaker 2: One of my cringe moments. That's one of my cringe moments.
Speaker 2: Cringe moments, oh, because it's so hard to watch this
Speaker 2: show when you're like the baby and the idiot, because
Speaker 2: you're like literally like on a show with Jeff Perry
Speaker 2: and fucking Kate Burton doing like Oscar Tony Olivier Award
Speaker 2: Guiermo Diaz, like it's ridiculous. It should be reigning awards
Speaker 2: on the acting level. And then I come in and
Speaker 2: was like, I used to be normal. I think I
Speaker 2: was worried about my highlight.
Speaker 8: And I.
Speaker 2: Remember shooting about that scene, which is so great. He's
Speaker 2: talking about a scene where I come back to a
Speaker 2: hotel room. Charlie and I are living in a hotel room,
Speaker 2: and I remember I had to be in bron underwear.
Speaker 2: Always was stressful, and Tom Jerika was so great. He
Speaker 2: was like, just put your knees up and we're going
Speaker 2: to make it look so like I was basically hidden.
Speaker 2: It was great, Like I wasn't my broad underwear, but
Speaker 2: like eight nobody saw it, which was great. Okay, so
Speaker 2: I was cringe worthy for me. Oh who would come
Speaker 2: up with the titles of the episodes?
Speaker 3: Oh that's a good question.
Speaker 6: Oh that was another free for all. That was like
Speaker 6: we would reel up with and I can't remember, like
Speaker 6: roughly writers. I don't know if it was writer's table. Yeah, writer,
Speaker 6: because you guys always had titles at the.
Speaker 2: Table, right, yes, always, If.
Speaker 6: You always had titles at the table, then usually once
Speaker 6: we would turn in a writer's draft or the second
Speaker 6: the second writer's draft, we would then sort of sit
Speaker 6: around and talk about the titles, and I'm yeah, I'm
Speaker 6: trying to think, like everyone sort of came up with
Speaker 6: a few. I think Chris was someone that always sort
Speaker 6: of like we thought about, like came up with like
Speaker 6: good titles on the fly, and some people sort of
Speaker 6: would sort of relinquish that, like people like Paul I
Speaker 6: have no interest in coming.
Speaker 2: Up with that impossible. I can't come up with a
Speaker 2: fucking title. That's impuzzible, and the titles are so funny, like.
Speaker 3: Girl, I can't One.
Speaker 6: Of the secrets was trying to figure out the line, right,
Speaker 6: so a door marked exit or a Molley You and
Speaker 6: Danger Girl, right, like, these are all lines that are
Speaker 6: in the episode. So that was the starting place. Was
Speaker 6: kind of trying to predict like what is the viral line,
Speaker 6: Like I don't know if you guys used to need
Speaker 6: the sort of recaps, but like in Vulture or a
Speaker 6: v club, like they would do like a line of
Speaker 6: the week, and like, I don't know, like it was
Speaker 6: awesome if that was your.
Speaker 5: Line, right, like, so.
Speaker 2: How great would that be?
Speaker 6: That's sort of like how titles it would initially go
Speaker 6: to trying to figure out, like what's the line in
Speaker 6: the episode that like Shondall connect with or that the
Speaker 6: audience is going to connect with.
Speaker 2: And it was so like, you know, not that it's
Speaker 2: like pop cultuy, but it's just so like perfect, like
Speaker 2: like tweetable or digestible or like it just nails it.
Speaker 2: It's just so fucking.
Speaker 6: Some of the backfire I did. One of the episodes
Speaker 6: that had my name on it was an episode You
Speaker 6: Got Served, which was like everyone, you guys, like all
Speaker 6: the subpoenas at the beginning, but in the end of
Speaker 6: the cut there no one actually got subpoenaed. So that's
Speaker 6: sort of like it's a reference to something.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, this makes no sense.
Speaker 2: So funny, Okay. I just think Candy Alexander is the
Speaker 2: most beautiful looking end moment where in the wind and
Speaker 2: we find out she's really the scary one and she's
Speaker 2: the bad guy and all this stuff, and then she
Speaker 2: picks up her phone and she's like and she's like
Speaker 2: Olivia's like mom, and she's just in this fucking amazing
Speaker 2: French coat hair. She's like, I see soon, baby, or
Speaker 2: something like that. And then she just throws away the
Speaker 2: burner phone in the trash can and she walks away
Speaker 2: and you realize that she's standing in front of the
Speaker 2: White House.
Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, I will say that that's like an odd
Speaker 6: place to make that phone call, I think if you're
Speaker 6: sort of wanted.
Speaker 1: But I would have smashed that phone up before throwing
Speaker 1: it in the garbage, right, I would have thrown it
Speaker 1: in the water, not just like she like chucks it
Speaker 1: open into the garbage.
Speaker 2: I mean scandal that people had to just sort of buy.
Speaker 2: I remember people used to be like, there's no way
Speaker 2: that if you're in DuPont Circle that you can get
Speaker 2: to the Pentagon next scene and just watch the show.
Speaker 2: Television it's fine.
Speaker 6: That's the one where it's also like we were good
Speaker 6: at taking sort of irrational logic in one episode and
Speaker 6: then making it make sense later, So like we never
Speaker 6: did anything like that. You say that, I go, you
Speaker 6: said you didn't smash a cell phone. If someone said
Speaker 6: that in the room, we might say, like three episodes later,
Speaker 6: it should be like, well, actually she didn't smash it
Speaker 6: because she wanted someone to go to that spot because
Speaker 6: of the pocket.
Speaker 5: You would have made it work, you know, in a way.
Speaker 6: And and and a lot of questionable ideas in all
Speaker 6: of television and on this show have been recovered with
Speaker 6: some some forward logic, some some some some corrective logic.
Speaker 2: I just always was so blown away at how And
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's because the writing was so
Speaker 2: great or because our acting was so great, but I
Speaker 2: was always so blown away by like you guys doing
Speaker 2: making some ship up and and then people just all
Speaker 2: buying it, Like I'd like it's literally like I.
Speaker 3: Just like, I like they bought that ship. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean it was.
Speaker 2: Always sinker, you know what I mean, Like like it's
Speaker 2: just crazy, Like it's just so wild.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's a testament again to the show, and
Speaker 6: and what sort of people were attracted to in the beginning,
Speaker 6: and what Shonda created, and also what you guys bought,
Speaker 6: which is like Kerry and Olivia Pope were such compelling characters, right,
Speaker 6: and then you guys come and you like really sort
Speaker 6: of like own these characters and bring them to life
Speaker 6: where you care about you know, Huck in this, you
Speaker 6: care about a murderer who's willing to torture as best
Speaker 6: friend in this incredibly compelling way. And so I think
Speaker 6: that that, I mean, that's ultimately what people care about
Speaker 6: in television, right, Like do they really care about the
Speaker 6: how and the why? I mean, of course they do
Speaker 6: in certain shows like but this also, you know, this
Speaker 6: wasn't Law and Order, and I don't know that what
Speaker 6: they're doing isn't ridiculous either, but as long as it
Speaker 6: sort of feels real and sort of the emotion always
Speaker 6: felt real to me, you know, like like Jeff didn't
Speaker 6: crazy did insane things. You guys both did insane things
Speaker 6: on the show, but it all made sense.
Speaker 3: Like there's nothing Cyrus didn't take it make sense to me,
Speaker 3: do you know what I mean?
Speaker 6: Like, you know it's insane right in this episode it's
Speaker 6: insane to pimp out your husband so that you can
Speaker 6: get this guy in trouble so that you can then
Speaker 6: get Sally off. It's his back so you can win
Speaker 6: in an election, right, and then.
Speaker 3: It's kind of hot.
Speaker 6: It's gotta and the fact that you have the nerve
Speaker 6: afterwards to be like, we're really mad about it, like
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, Like boyfriend said, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: And not get pictures.
Speaker 6: There's no way you guys remember the table read for this,
Speaker 6: but there is an entire story missing that we read
Speaker 6: at the table that doesn't exist in the show.
Speaker 5: Really yeah, So I remember.
Speaker 6: This very clearly, and I remember when we cut it,
Speaker 6: and then I went back to look at the writer's
Speaker 6: draft to see and in addition to everything crazy stuff
Speaker 6: that ocurds in this episode, there was also a B
Speaker 6: six thirteen origin story that told you about Joe's origin.
Speaker 2: Get up right now and go fucking pitch that. Remember
Speaker 2: I'm available of July.
Speaker 3: I'm available right now, me your most.
Speaker 2: Holy Joe, George, George Newborn, and whoever the fuck else
Speaker 2: you want, we are available.
Speaker 1: And do you remembers show We used the daydream on
Speaker 1: set of Scandal that they would do a spin off
Speaker 1: called of B six thirteen, and we would all continue
Speaker 1: on after Scandal.
Speaker 2: Because shooting that stuff, Like we loved being at the
Speaker 2: Acne Acne paper. We loved being this.
Speaker 5: Like wonderland, wonderful.
Speaker 2: Part of Like, Oh, I thought my acting was good
Speaker 2: at that part. I thought I did good. When I
Speaker 2: was digging the out of my two that was so
Speaker 2: difficult to.
Speaker 6: I mean just also thinking about the range of stuff
Speaker 6: you're doing right, Like you go from like you're getting
Speaker 6: tortured to like you're having this vulnerable moment with Charlie too.
Speaker 6: You're cleaning up a body like you cleaned up the
Speaker 6: Daniel Douglas Daily.
Speaker 2: I am so versatile, you sup.
Speaker 3: We'll be right back, guys.
Speaker 2: Were you guys ever worried? Like, oh shit, Like if
Speaker 2: Carrie Olivia Pope murders the vice president with the chair,
Speaker 2: like will we like were there?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 2: Like yeah, were you thwhack? Was that the name of
Speaker 2: it the episode?
Speaker 8: Like?
Speaker 2: Were you ever? Like how are fans like our fans
Speaker 2: and gladiators going to cross her? Like will they not
Speaker 2: be on Olivia Pop's side or were you Like no,
Speaker 2: they We've got them in the possible.
Speaker 3: I still love her. Yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker 6: I mean as Quinn really didn't cross o Pa or
Speaker 6: Olivia at all, but you can, like you looked in
Speaker 6: her email one time, and like the fans are like,
Speaker 6: oh my god, she crossed them.
Speaker 2: Kill her, death threats, death threats. If you're not with Olivia,
Speaker 2: you're dead, right.
Speaker 6: So it's about being with Olivia, so we can justify
Speaker 6: what Olivia does. So no, I don't think that there
Speaker 6: was ever. I mean, look, okay, well how do we
Speaker 6: justify that she's going to kill a man in a
Speaker 6: wheelchair because he was in a wheelchair, remember, right? And
Speaker 6: but he really he said some crazy things to Olivia, right,
Speaker 6: He like called her like a horror and this and
Speaker 6: that whatever, and she just had enough. So I think
Speaker 6: once you say that to Olivia Pope, the fans are like,
Speaker 6: how about it.
Speaker 3: Kill that motherfucker?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't care, bye, I mean wow, okay, okay, wait,
Speaker 2: we have to talk about because we have Tony on too.
Speaker 2: Tell me about the Tony Eye. I'm so uncomfortable in
Speaker 2: the Joe Morton Tony Goldwyn opening of that scene because
Speaker 2: he says how good Olivia is and what she tastes, like,
Speaker 2: are you joking? You say that to her father.
Speaker 3: Who about that scene?
Speaker 6: God, I wish I knew who wrote that, But I
Speaker 6: will say, like, just like I was saying before, like
Speaker 6: everything is to the highest degree, like the like Sally
Speaker 6: talking about like she can't keep her legs closed or
Speaker 6: all the you know, when Cyrus is like, you know,
Speaker 6: says to James like that baby that I bought for you.
Speaker 6: It's talking about his own daughter, and he's like, that
Speaker 6: baby that I bought for you, that's in the next room.
Speaker 6: So if everyone on the show always went for the jugular, right,
Speaker 6: like there were always the sharpest, the meanest, right, and
Speaker 6: then as writers, you have to be the sharpest the meanest,
Speaker 6: so you're looking to like one up the person on
Speaker 6: the next scene and be like how can you do
Speaker 6: that thing? So it's funny rewatching that scene, which is incredible,
Speaker 6: and like obviously that's just like probably the most iconic
Speaker 6: scene to come out of this episode, I think as
Speaker 6: far as like I.
Speaker 2: Think he wanted me. We were talking about he won.
Speaker 5: This episodemi this year. Yeah, you guys delivered.
Speaker 4: In back to back.
Speaker 1: And then Joe Morton how many and just we win
Speaker 1: a wait none? Oh wait, oh wait, we want nothing anyway,
Speaker 1: go aheads the year. He's so freaking good in that chair.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, he's so good in the chair.
Speaker 6: And it does feel like it was the only thing,
Speaker 6: like thinking back to it, it's really the only leg
Speaker 6: that that fits as a characterized to stand on it.
Speaker 6: And it's also like kind of goes with where Joe
Speaker 6: goes with the scene later, which is it's just sort
Speaker 6: of like juvenile, right, like you went the expected route,
Speaker 6: like and you went for the thing that you think
Speaker 6: is going to hurt me the most. But like like
Speaker 6: like Joe Morton just sort of can't be touched. But
Speaker 6: I think Tony plays it really well, and he obviously
Speaker 6: comes back at the end of the episode and sort
Speaker 6: of pushes him out his command. But that scene I
Speaker 6: was on set for the rehearsal, right, I mean it
Speaker 6: was on set the entire time. But Tom's directing it,
Speaker 6: we're watching it, we're in the rehearsal. This is exactly
Speaker 6: what happens. He does the entire thing pretty much as
Speaker 6: it is in the thing.
Speaker 3: But he probably book for sure.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, yeah, Well he did ever have all the
Speaker 6: he didn't have all the pages. Oh wow, he did
Speaker 6: something in the rehearsal where we're reading and then I said, oh,
Speaker 6: you have the wrong thing. Did anyone give you like
Speaker 6: the golden rods or like the double golden rods or whatever?
Speaker 6: And he was like whatever. So it was only like
Speaker 6: three lines that changed. So then he went back changed,
Speaker 6: came back off book. Does it almost as is? He
Speaker 6: probably sings like ten percent more, which is still crazy
Speaker 6: because the performance is basically a musical, right, Like he's
Speaker 6: dancing and singing through the entire.
Speaker 2: Thing, singing summertime and oh you're a little bully.
Speaker 3: O god.
Speaker 6: So I'm like Tom and I we've talked about it
Speaker 6: in tone, and like, you know, Seanda is very specific
Speaker 6: about like this is how I want to see shot,
Speaker 6: and like, as like a younger writer on set, you're like, well,
Speaker 6: I want to make sure she gets exactly what she wants.
Speaker 6: And so the performance is incredible, but you do know
Speaker 6: there's like a couple of things here or there that
Speaker 6: maybe you might want to see differently or whatever. She
Speaker 6: might want an option here or there, whatever. But the
Speaker 6: crew in total stands up after the rehearsal and is clapping.
Speaker 6: So me, I'm just going like yeah, totally. But I'm
Speaker 6: like oh no, how do you change any part of
Speaker 6: the performance When the entire crew, like Brad who doesn't
Speaker 6: get up at all for any reason other than the
Speaker 6: show is moving fast, he's like losing his mind. People
Speaker 6: are in tears, and you're just sort of like, oh
Speaker 6: my god. So that I will say, like we that performance,
Speaker 6: like we might not have done that but one or
Speaker 6: two other times, and most of what's in there is
Speaker 6: exactly what we did on the first take. And I
Speaker 6: think that both of them were I think Tony was brilliant.
Speaker 2: He came out of the gate like that.
Speaker 6: Came out of the gate probably ten percent above what
Speaker 6: you saw.
Speaker 3: But Katie, you know that's not shocking it. Joe, he
Speaker 3: came up.
Speaker 1: Every single scene that I ever did with him, so
Speaker 1: like it's mind boggling.
Speaker 3: It's remarkable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we don't remember who came up with the
Speaker 2: like when he's like you're a little boy and you're
Speaker 2: a little bit essentially you're interesting.
Speaker 5: That had to be a Sean the.
Speaker 2: Privilege piece of shit like you that you are nothing
Speaker 2: like you're just it was.
Speaker 6: Well, I mean again, I think that was Johan and
Speaker 6: I think it was also. The crazy part about that
Speaker 6: is that sort of resonated with a certain segment of
Speaker 6: our audience. Was like the idea, and we touched on
Speaker 6: it much later with Joe, Like just the idea that
Speaker 6: this man was brought in chains right to this black
Speaker 6: man was brought in chains to the secret place he's
Speaker 6: calling the white white president a boy just is like
Speaker 6: made him doubly triply powerful. Like there was all of
Speaker 6: those you sort of talked about before. I think that
Speaker 6: there was a lot more like Trojan horse stuff and
Speaker 6: many many more layers than think than than really had
Speaker 6: to be, and that I think a lot of people
Speaker 6: understood at the time, but that you know, in addition
Speaker 6: to the performance and it being an amazingly written speech
Speaker 6: and Tony's performance against him really strong, there was a
Speaker 6: lot of other layers to that, and a lot of
Speaker 6: talk about the metaphors in that scene too, which was
Speaker 6: was really just I don't know, top notch. I mean,
Speaker 6: he just doesn't stop, like it just feels like he's
Speaker 6: on like a I don't even know. And Oliver, which
Speaker 6: we I don't know if you guys talk about him
Speaker 6: on the show as well, so we have to.
Speaker 5: Have him on.
Speaker 2: Oliver Bogelberg was our TP He directed a bunch of
Speaker 2: episodes too, but he was our DP and he is
Speaker 2: an incredible camera like artist. He's just such an artist.
Speaker 2: The way he shot that show, it was not shot
Speaker 2: like a typical broadcast drama at all. This was so
Speaker 2: I'm like souls here. This was like such a part
Speaker 2: of this show that we have not really I mean, Seana,
Speaker 2: we had her on and we talked, but it was
Speaker 2: so much about the beginning of scale, like where the
Speaker 2: ideas come from, how she wrote the pilot, like casting
Speaker 2: and you know, the first three weeks we shot ever
Speaker 2: and the rehearsals and all of that. But this is
Speaker 2: so fascinating, and I'm so grateful to you spending the time,
Speaker 2: and thank you. I could talk to you for hours
Speaker 2: because we definitely have you back on for the launch
Speaker 2: to know, like, I still feel like you're you're a
Speaker 2: pretty good vault and haven't given us much.
Speaker 3: We're going to crack them. We're whisky next time.
Speaker 2: The whole time of the show too, it was a
Speaker 2: vault the whole time. We didn't know what was going
Speaker 2: on in there. We didn't know how decisions were made,
Speaker 2: We didn't know why things stuck or went away or
Speaker 2: like anything. You guys were such a little b six
Speaker 2: thirteen amongst yourselves.
Speaker 6: Well, a lot of it was a surprise to us,
Speaker 6: right like Cotts, Like I said, we didn't always see
Speaker 6: and then also like we're doing it in real time,
Speaker 6: so sometimes it'd be like I genuinely don't know the
Speaker 6: answer to your question. Like Columbus used to come up to
Speaker 6: me all the time and think that somehow he could
Speaker 6: like dance his way into getting some information out of me.
Speaker 6: I'm so I would love to obviously do it again,
Speaker 6: and I love you know this kind of stuff terrifies me,
Speaker 6: But the reality is like, no, you're so good getting
Speaker 6: the opportunity to talk about this thing again where I
Speaker 6: made so many lifelong friends and to talk to you
Speaker 6: guys and sort of remember some of the amazing fun
Speaker 6: we had. Like I just couldn't pass up on that
Speaker 6: opportunity and get.
Speaker 1: To watch the episode, right and get to watch the
Speaker 1: show again, like that must have been.
Speaker 6: Exciting watch it, watch it having the experience of watching
Speaker 6: it knowing where it ends, so like watching David Rosen
Speaker 6: and and Dan and knowing where that's going to go
Speaker 6: in a couple of episodes, which is amazing yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh man, this was the freaking best here. You're so amazing.
Speaker 2: Here was amazing. Thank you for coming on. And now
Speaker 2: we're going to put pivot because the President of.
Speaker 3: Sam here, can you believe it? Fitz Gerald Grant, the
Speaker 3: Tony here the third. Oh shit, don't forget the three.
Speaker 2: Don't forget that three. Fitzgerald Grant the third is here
Speaker 2: to talk to us also about this episode, because it's
Speaker 2: a big presidential episode. It's a big presidential season. All
Speaker 2: of season three is all about him getting re elected
Speaker 2: and if he will have a second term. And oh
Speaker 2: my god, Tony, we're not even going to take up
Speaker 2: that much of your time because we just are.
Speaker 4: You kidding to get to spend time with you, guys.
Speaker 2: You look so handsome as per usual letters not Tony
Speaker 2: Goblin is still a site for sore. First of all,
Speaker 2: I want to hear about how you're doing in your life,
Speaker 2: and you have so many things going on coming up
Speaker 2: and have just come out. But also, we couldn't talk
Speaker 2: about this episode without going into this freaking monologue situation, like.
Speaker 4: Crazy, Like I just rewatched the whole episode.
Speaker 2: You did, you did?
Speaker 3: It was so it's so good, right.
Speaker 4: It's really It just reminds me how crazy Scandal was. God,
Speaker 4: how much story is episode of it is so outrageous.
Speaker 1: And that being seen, just that opening scene, it's like
Speaker 1: so much going on and so like new things, Like
Speaker 1: it was super like we're.
Speaker 2: Talking about Sally Likestin killing Daniel Douglass right where like
Speaker 2: you know he's been murdered in the episode before, but
Speaker 2: now we see their like big last fight, like she
Speaker 2: stabs them in the end, in the back with a
Speaker 2: freaking letter opener.
Speaker 1: I mean it is, but I love how they sort
Speaker 1: of go back and forth and then you hear the
Speaker 1: characters talking but you don't see them their mouths moving.
Speaker 3: It's super like edgy, like, oh it's so cool, it's
Speaker 3: so interesting. Yeah, I knew.
Speaker 4: She like made all that decisions in the cutting room
Speaker 4: like this she did.
Speaker 3: I'm sure, right, yeah.
Speaker 4: Well I didn't go ahead look at the script, but
Speaker 4: that was like classic Shonda, you know, taking it all
Speaker 4: part and putting it back together in a really crazy way.
Speaker 4: I think would she do that?
Speaker 2: You have experience like that because you directed some of
Speaker 2: the episodes that you saw like what Shonda would do
Speaker 2: in the editing room that you were like, oh shit,
Speaker 2: like that, that's crazy, like you do rip them together.
Speaker 4: Well, I can't rememb ive ever told you guys this,
Speaker 4: but years and years and years ago when I first
Speaker 4: met you on it, when I directed Gray's Anatomy, I
Speaker 4: had you know, when you direct an episode of a
Speaker 4: television show, you know you have like you turn in
Speaker 4: your director's cut, right, So when I did Gray's Anatomy,
Speaker 4: I think I only directed movies. I think up until
Speaker 4: that point, I directed a couple of movies. So I
Speaker 4: felt it kind of like, well my impresson. I took
Speaker 4: the episode and I made some decisions editorially, but I thought, well,
Speaker 4: of this scene is a long and we'll just chop
Speaker 4: that out, and this would be better if you move
Speaker 4: this here and do that there. And I thought, give
Speaker 4: this to the and I done know. I know I'd
Speaker 4: done the L word, and I lean the showrunner of
Speaker 4: that love that. She was like, grid't me your ideas. Anyway,
Speaker 4: I go and I took some made some changes to
Speaker 4: the thing, and it was my opinion of what I
Speaker 4: thought would work best. Turned into the next year, they
Speaker 4: hired me back to do another episode. Editor I go
Speaker 4: into the cutting room and he says, before we get started,
Speaker 4: I WI need to talk about something. I said, what
Speaker 4: he said, Yeah, last year, Seanda was a little upset
Speaker 4: with with your cut. I said no. He said, yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, she really wants everything in there, and you
Speaker 4: kind of, you know, cut some stuff and made some
Speaker 4: and and uh and he sort of had to give
Speaker 4: me a talking to because what Seawan, wow, which not
Speaker 4: all producers want, is she wants the script exactly as
Speaker 4: written in the director's cut, so you make it has
Speaker 4: to have every word be in the right order and
Speaker 4: exactly what, you know, what was written. And then she
Speaker 4: goes in and does and rewrites the whole show in
Speaker 4: the editing room and sometimes completely deconstructs things. But it
Speaker 4: really threw her that I had made some choices. You
Speaker 4: I got in trouble.
Speaker 8: I wouldn't see that, understandal I always said that, Yeah,
Speaker 8: that was I don't write I was you kidding, I
Speaker 8: don't know it's gone it was.
Speaker 4: It was the third episode of Grey's Anatomy as well. Yeah,
Speaker 4: oh wow.
Speaker 2: Interesting. And Tim Brathy used to come in. That makes
Speaker 2: sense because he used to come and be like, shit
Speaker 2: that we just did the string together of this episode.
Speaker 2: We're fucking nineteen minutes over because like we were shooting
Speaker 2: one hundred page scripts for a forty two minute show.
Speaker 2: The most plot dialogue shit to fit in ever, and
Speaker 2: if she wants it, every single word and stage direction
Speaker 2: is in there in the correct order.
Speaker 3: I mean that is a lot a long show. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that is a lot.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you turn it something in that long you do
Speaker 4: do that. But you know, I thought it was fun
Speaker 4: actually directing once I knew the ground rule. So when
Speaker 4: we did Scandal, I was just like, Okay, I'm going
Speaker 4: to take this script that Chonda wrote and deliver it
Speaker 4: in the tightest best way I possibly can, with the
Speaker 4: best performances. And that's an interesting kind of like editorial assignment,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Nobody she's going to come
Speaker 4: in and do like what she did in three ten,
Speaker 4: which is that's like a my movie. The story in
Speaker 4: that there's like a whole I was amazed when I
Speaker 4: rewatched it.
Speaker 2: I was just like, you rewatched it? Can you This
Speaker 2: fucking monologue goes down in history, I think, which is
Speaker 2: why we had to have you back on Like we're
Speaker 2: talking gladiators about you are a little boy monologue where
Speaker 2: you're a boy, Yeah, you're a boy? Fits gets you know,
Speaker 2: pop a pope. He's all tied up and he's in
Speaker 2: like some really aware and I mean it's the monoe mono.
Speaker 2: I don't even know how you would how would you
Speaker 2: paraphrase this scene?
Speaker 1: It's Yeah, I blames for that monologue because you start
Speaker 1: off by just going in and telling him your daughter.
Speaker 2: You say, I love the way she tastes as much like.
Speaker 3: You had coming. Yeah, he's just taking it in.
Speaker 4: And then just and Joe delivered that model like I
Speaker 4: went into like a twenty minute shame spiral just for
Speaker 4: saying those main things to me. I was like, Wow,
Speaker 4: do you.
Speaker 2: Remember reading it at the table read? I don't, do
Speaker 2: you Do you remember when you first laid eyes on that?
Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, I do.
Speaker 2: Were you terrifying?
Speaker 4: Were you?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 4: What I mostly remember is shooting it.
Speaker 5: I remember I sort of have a memory.
Speaker 4: Of the the table reading, thinking Wow, what an incredible thing.
Speaker 4: But when Joe unloaded on me, I was in shock.
Speaker 4: I was like, it was so so intense and so theatrical.
Speaker 4: It was like operatic.
Speaker 8: Yes, yeah, So I was kind of stunned at the
Speaker 8: at his balls in delivering it in that in the
Speaker 8: way that he did, Like it was it was.
Speaker 4: It was super impact. I remember being like having my seating,
Speaker 4: you be on the receiving end of that.
Speaker 1: I mean, he goes into he goes into accents, He
Speaker 1: went into accents, into characters.
Speaker 3: He was like getting down.
Speaker 2: Yeah it is easy, and oh you're a little boy
Speaker 2: and like all this ship You're like, oh my god.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like it was. I knew what he was doing
Speaker 4: was brilliant and it was so theatrical. I was like,
Speaker 4: is our show gounna going to sustain this intense theatricality?
Speaker 4: And then I didn't. Honestly, I didn't understand fully what
Speaker 4: Joe was doing until I saw it later, Like I
Speaker 4: appreciate it, and I've always thought Joe's brilliant no matter
Speaker 4: what he does. But when I it's so deep what
Speaker 4: he's doing in that scene, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: Like that's why watching it now, ten years later or
Speaker 4: whatever it is, it's very especially all we've been through
Speaker 4: in the years since about race and you know, and
Speaker 4: power dynamics in our society and all of that. I
Speaker 4: didn't have a fucking clue in twenty thirteen or whatever
Speaker 4: it was, you know, I was like, yes, I didn't
Speaker 4: understand what where Joe was honestly coming from me. That's
Speaker 4: like a I'm just admitting that, you know. And now
Speaker 4: when I in retrospect of all that we've had had
Speaker 4: to process and think about and face, I watch it
Speaker 4: now and I'm like, it's very disturbing. I mean, Joe
Speaker 4: won an Emmy for that episode, didn't Oh did.
Speaker 3: He for that one?
Speaker 2: I think for a guest star, right, because is he
Speaker 2: recurring at this point?
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was a guest star.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he won the Go Scandal. I think the
Speaker 2: year before it went to Dan Bubutinski, and I think
Speaker 2: this season it went to Joe Morton for this.
Speaker 4: Episode for that long yeah, really, yeah, And Joe always
Speaker 4: I get the what he did, which is why he
Speaker 4: so deservedly won an Emmy for that character. He just
Speaker 4: swung so hard with his point of view on Pop
Speaker 4: Up Pope, you know, and it's just such good casting.
Speaker 4: He's so great. Yeah, it's so ballsy what he does,
Speaker 4: you know. And I was often on the receiving end
Speaker 4: of the right. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: So do you remember like preparing for your scene with
Speaker 2: Joe or you were just like, I'm just going to
Speaker 2: show up. Whatever he does is what he's going to do.
Speaker 4: No, it was the latter. I mean I I mean
Speaker 4: I prepared for it. I had my point of view
Speaker 4: and its FITs' point of view, and I knew Joe.
Speaker 4: I was excited to see what Joe did with the
Speaker 4: speech because it was a great monologue, you know, but
Speaker 4: I was it was like being billbo Baggins the dead
Speaker 4: of smog from the dragon comes out breath breath of
Speaker 4: fire at you.
Speaker 9: You know, you're like, like, I have a feeling that
Speaker 9: There was like thunderous applause after he was done, after
Speaker 9: every TAKEO or people were just like, oh my god,
Speaker 9: Like the crew usually like bows down when when he
Speaker 9: would deliver a performance like that or anyone else.
Speaker 4: It wasn't quite I think people work in kind of
Speaker 4: awe of it. But it was such a racially charged
Speaker 4: indictment of fits of me that I think it was
Speaker 4: very uncomfortable. It was like, yeah, like shit just got real. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and it's weird. You know. It's like, I'm Joe and
Speaker 4: I are good friends, but and we've known each other
Speaker 4: forever and work together many times, and but being on
Speaker 4: the receiving end of that was not comfortable.
Speaker 1: It was, yeah, that was and you kind of you
Speaker 1: kind of see fits is like vulnerability right in his innocence,
Speaker 1: and he is like a little boy because for him
Speaker 1: not to you know, all this stuff starts to sort
Speaker 1: of hit him. And it's so interesting to see him
Speaker 1: so like like you know again in awe and not
Speaker 1: really like not believing what what Rowan is telling him. Like,
Speaker 1: it's so interesting to see him so like like just
Speaker 1: hit so hard with those words.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, in a sense it's I mean it's not it's
Speaker 4: not it's not the whole picture, but it's all true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he's essentially saying, so all these things we
Speaker 2: learned in Scandal, which like just like you are a
Speaker 2: a white boy of privilege who didn't have to you know,
Speaker 2: they're the things in Scandal verse that we're always like,
Speaker 2: you know, I've worked twice as hard to get half
Speaker 2: as much. Is not your story. That's that's Papa Pop's story,
Speaker 2: and that's Olivia Pope's story, and that's not your story. Which, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's gonna be wild watching this show back since George
Speaker 2: Dloyd and all of these and the Black Lives Matter
Speaker 2: movement and all this stuff, because we were before that,
Speaker 2: like we were and even like we haven't even gone
Speaker 2: to the lawn chair.
Speaker 3: Episod we've done any of that work.
Speaker 2: Like, we haven't gotten any of that. I also think
Speaker 2: as actors were constantly told. I think in terms of
Speaker 2: like you being like, oh could this could the show
Speaker 2: hold these choices that are like that. I think we're
Speaker 2: told all the time, like can you be smaller? Can
Speaker 2: you be smaller? Like you know for those listening, like
Speaker 2: a camera really is a microscope, and sometimes facial expressions
Speaker 2: or things can look something you might do on a
Speaker 2: stage to reach the back row you wouldn't do on
Speaker 2: camera because it's too close up and it would look insane.
Speaker 2: But Joe obviously like he don't give.
Speaker 3: A ship, you don't give a ship.
Speaker 1: But he's committed too, He's committed, so all that craziness
Speaker 1: just works.
Speaker 4: And it's totally real. That's the other thing about as actors,
Speaker 4: you know, like if you fucking commit, yeah, and it's
Speaker 4: real for you, it's going to be real for whoever's receiving.
Speaker 4: Look at hat and the opening scene, you know, she's
Speaker 4: like Kate Burton too, is like so theatrical, which's sober
Speaker 4: or so much more like Bellamy does is beautifully theatrical
Speaker 4: and it's like or so a lot of our cast
Speaker 4: is like too yeah, Jeff too man in this episode
Speaker 4: the stuff with him and Danny, Oh my god, you
Speaker 4: can see the three sixes on my yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the devil came in all throat.
Speaker 2: We always talk about food on our podcast, but and
Speaker 2: people eating in episodes because G and I are obsessed
Speaker 2: with actors who eat or who don't eat, or you know,
Speaker 2: you're carrying a coffee cup and it doesn't look hot or
Speaker 2: doesn't look full. But has everyone worked with barf because
Speaker 2: Jeff Perry did a good job in this episode throwing up.
Speaker 3: You did a really good job.
Speaker 4: Throwing up was some real barfing.
Speaker 2: It was a real He throws up because he realizes
Speaker 2: that essentially Sally Langston murdering Daniel Douglas is kind of
Speaker 2: his fall. And then we're going to do some tweets
Speaker 2: to the time. Well, I really like these ones tonight
Speaker 2: because people talk some shit about Quinn, which I always love.
Speaker 2: Sissy Nane says, Quinn is, without a doubt, the worst
Speaker 2: character on show.
Speaker 1: I loved you know it for in the beginning of
Speaker 1: the show, when people would tweet like nasty stuff or
Speaker 1: mean shit to me or to any of us. I
Speaker 1: would get upset, and then I started to enjoy it now,
Speaker 1: like that's what cracks me up.
Speaker 2: Love it. I love it. It's great what you do.
Speaker 2: You don't want to be boring. You want people to
Speaker 2: feel one way or the other.
Speaker 1: Someone tweeted at me one saying that I Huck looks
Speaker 1: like he's constipated in every scene like it looked. They
Speaker 1: were like, he's such a bad actor. He just looks
Speaker 1: like he's constipated in every scene.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Ezra Xx tweeted, my flight number is B six and
Speaker 1: today is the thirteenth, so you know, I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm on Scandal.
Speaker 3: So B six thirteen. Wish me luck.
Speaker 2: Oh h Cindy Capanera s you see Cap tweeted, I'm
Speaker 2: going to yell a monologue at you about who I
Speaker 2: am and who I'm not and why I am that
Speaker 2: way hashtag scandal.
Speaker 1: Maris Kreisman tweeted a reality show competition based on Scandal
Speaker 1: in which the loser of the week goes home to
Speaker 1: the tagline.
Speaker 3: You're not a gladiator anymore. That's good.
Speaker 2: I like that and this is true. At shidmoh One,
Speaker 2: Mike s wrote, I hate my winter coats. If only
Speaker 2: I had an assortment of winter coats like Olivia Pope.
Speaker 2: I feel like that to this day, never ever, has
Speaker 2: there ever been a better coat back.
Speaker 3: So many clothes, so many gloves, so many bags? Who
Speaker 3: has the time? Where did you have the time to shop?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Who?
Speaker 1: Like this is the busiest woman in DC and she
Speaker 1: had like all the most amazing clothes.
Speaker 2: Next week, Listeners, Next up Word episode three eleven called
Speaker 2: Ride Sally Ride.
Speaker 3: Another good one title. Thank you Gladiators, Thank you guys
Speaker 3: for listening.
Speaker 1: Bye, Thank you guys for joining us on Unpacking the Toolbox.
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate,
Speaker 1: or leave us a review.
Speaker 2: Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Alex Alce, Lauren Homan,
Speaker 2: Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is
Speaker 2: Vince de Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher.
Speaker 1: Scandal is a production of ABC Signature, and you can
Speaker 1: follow along by rewatching Scandal on Hulu.
Speaker 2: Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in
Speaker 2: partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit
Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.
Speaker 1: Y