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Speaker 2: What is going on? Everybody? John Middlecoff three and out podcast.

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Speaker 2: That'd be me and this would be the show. Hopefully

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Speaker 2: everyone had a really really good Easter weekend. I went

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Speaker 2: on with Colin on Sunday, so that if you haven't

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Speaker 2: checked out that pod, that podcast is out there in

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Speaker 2: the ether, came out Monday, and today, which will be

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Speaker 2: Tuesday for those listening, is an interview and it's just

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Speaker 2: me and Mike Mayock. He was the Raiders GM with

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Speaker 2: Gruden obviously was with the NFL Network for a long

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Speaker 2: long time running that bad boy, and he was really

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Speaker 2: really good. He was somewhere on an island in Georgia

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Speaker 2: enjoying his life. But you talk about a football junkie

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Speaker 2: who you know. We talk a little bit about everything

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Speaker 2: from regrets as a drafter, to Derek Carr to just

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Speaker 2: you name it, and then obviously this upcoming draft from

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Speaker 2: all the quarterbacks, the wide receivers and the star tied end.

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Speaker 2: So Mike Mayock joins the show today, which has been

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Speaker 2: someone I've been trying to get on for a while

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Speaker 2: now and we finally hunted him down. You know, the

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Speaker 2: draft basically three and a half weeks away, So buckle

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Speaker 2: up right because it's almost here. And if you listen

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Speaker 2: on Collins Feed, make sure you subscribe to three and out.

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Speaker 2: Everything's up on YouTube, including the Mayock interview. The game

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Speaker 2: plan will be I'll do a foot normal football podcast,

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Speaker 2: I think for Wednesday, probably a golf podcast for Thursday,

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Speaker 2: and then a podcast for Friday. So pedal of the Medal.

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Speaker 2: Keep these podcasts coming, keep the content flowing, try to

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Speaker 2: entertain everybody. But you guys know the drill. Before we

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Speaker 2: dive into football, I gotta tell you about my close friends.

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Speaker 2: The Final four and National Championship game right down the

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Speaker 2: street from my house, well out right down the street.

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Speaker 2: Glendale's about thirty forty minutes because I don't know why

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Speaker 2: they built the stadium in BFE, but it's there, and

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Speaker 2: I've been thinking like should I just go to the game,

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Speaker 2: And then I looked. I went to game Time downloaded

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Speaker 2: the official ticketing app of this podcast, And if you

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Speaker 2: want to go to an event, Baseball starting the NBA

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Speaker 2: playoffs right around the corner concerts. Everyone's going out on

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Speaker 2: tour this summer comedy shows. You want to see someone funny,

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Speaker 2: get a laugh, enjoy yourself. Just download the game Time

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Speaker 2: app promo code John, jo h joh and your first

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Speaker 2: pair of tickets save twenty dollars. Very very easy to do.

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Speaker 2: Listen if the Dodgers are coming near you, whether you

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Speaker 2: hate them or you love them, they are a fun

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Speaker 2: team to watch. I saw Mookie Betts like four home

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Speaker 2: runs through the first weekend of baseball. That they are.

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Speaker 2: They're gonna be tough. They really are. So I know

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Speaker 2: a lot of you DM me saying you went to

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Speaker 2: Opening Day where you live because of promo code. John.

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Speaker 2: Keep hammering that promo code and enjoy yourself. Yeah, do it,

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Speaker 2: Game Time Promo co John. Let's dive in to Mike Mayock. Okay,

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Speaker 2: very very excited today to have a long time ahead

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Speaker 2: of NFL Networks draft coverage and NFL former general manager

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Speaker 2: of the Oakland Vegas Raiders, Mike Mayock, who's currently on

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Speaker 2: an island somewhere enjoying life. Mike, what's going on, man?

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Speaker 1: Hey? John? How you doing Man?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing great. How's life for you?

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Speaker 1: Life's real? Good.

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Speaker 4: I still get to work full time in the football

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Speaker 4: business from about mid July to the end of January

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Speaker 4: because I'm doing games for Westwood One and I'm doing

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Speaker 4: scouting for a private company called Summer Sports. So I

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Speaker 4: wrote about one hundred college reports. I did a bunch

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Speaker 4: of games. So for me, it keeps me around what

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Speaker 4: I love, John, And then February first hits and I

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Speaker 4: can try to learn how to play some golf and

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Speaker 4: try to get back in shape and all those kind

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Speaker 4: of things.

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Speaker 2: You know, I feel like I know you just because

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Speaker 2: I followed you so closely, like most of us draft

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Speaker 2: junkies over the years. When everything ended with the Raiders,

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Speaker 2: I would have guessed and known some people that had

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Speaker 2: coached for the Raiders when you were there, that you

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Speaker 2: would have just became like a scouting director. And obviously

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Speaker 2: that hasn't taken part. Obviously a lifestyle in the NFL

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Speaker 2: is a little bit different than the media was that

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Speaker 2: when the Raiders tenure ended, did you think about taking

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Speaker 2: a role more suited like that where it's just football

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Speaker 2: none of the other extracurricular stuff that can kind of

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Speaker 2: wear you out in that role.

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Speaker 4: Uh? Yeah, it's a good that's a good call, John.

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Speaker 4: I mean when I got fired, I probably had five

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Speaker 4: NFL teams call me and say, hey, would you come

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Speaker 4: in anywhere from you know, assistant GM to special consultant

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Speaker 4: or whatever you want to call, you know, director or whatever.

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Speaker 4: And I think the smartest thing I ever did personally, and.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have to.

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Speaker 4: Take a step back, because you know, I mean, if

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Speaker 4: you're in the football world and you know it, John,

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Speaker 4: because you are, and you were both inside and outside

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Speaker 4: of building. You're wired a certain why, right, and you're why.

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Speaker 4: You're a type A, and you're always chasing that next thing,

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Speaker 4: which I've always done. And when the Raiders thing came

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Speaker 4: to an end, kind of an abrupt end with a

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Speaker 4: playoff team, and I was kind of surprised by the

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Speaker 4: way it came to an end. The smartest thing I

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Speaker 4: think I ever did was look at my wife and say,

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Speaker 4: let's take a step back.

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Speaker 1: I've spent my.

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Speaker 4: Whole life charging full steam. I'm over sixty years old,

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Speaker 4: right now. Do I want to jump right back into

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Speaker 4: a building and work seven days a week and fifteen

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Speaker 4: hours a day and be on the road and do

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Speaker 4: all those things. If I do, that's fine, But maybe

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Speaker 4: I need to take a step back and figure out

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Speaker 4: if I have to do that, because, in all honesty,

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Speaker 4: about ninety percent of me wanted to do it.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to get right back in a building and go.

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Speaker 4: And kind of recognizing my own weakness, which is, you know,

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Speaker 4: jumping right back in without thinking about it. I think

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Speaker 4: the smartest thing I did was step back. I took

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Speaker 4: a year. I did some football work, I did some

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Speaker 4: games for Westwood One. But it gave me a chance

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Speaker 4: to kind of decompress a little bit with my wife

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Speaker 4: and family and kind of say, all right, you're sixty plus.

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Speaker 1: Do you really need this?

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Speaker 4: As long as you know I started breaking down game

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Speaker 4: tape with my dad when I was eight years old,

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Speaker 4: you know, and he was a high school coach. As

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Speaker 4: long as I get a taste to some of that,

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Speaker 4: and I can talk to guys like you and guys

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Speaker 4: in football buildings and be around the game, I'm pretty

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Speaker 4: good at this point. So but your prognosis is correct.

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Speaker 1: I almost did.

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Speaker 2: You know. It's funny, you know, when I got fired,

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Speaker 2: When Andy was fired and Chip Kelly comes in, you

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Speaker 2: get let go. After the draft. Beside my mom, my friends,

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Speaker 2: no one knows who the hell, I am right, so

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Speaker 2: and it happens all over the league, and it will

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Speaker 2: happen around draft time a lot of turnover. You were

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Speaker 2: in a unique position where obviously you just had a

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Speaker 2: successful season. A lot of craziness happened that year, but

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Speaker 2: you were pretty famous because of the role that you

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Speaker 2: had on NFL Network before you ever took that. In

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Speaker 2: that role, you had been part of just success over

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Speaker 2: the latter part of your career. Once you're done playing,

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Speaker 2: is that a weird thing to handle? Like when I

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Speaker 2: was fired? Obviously most people my dad was a farmer.

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Speaker 2: People that are fired's because they're lazy or they're late.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's weird telling someone that you're not used

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Speaker 2: to it's because it's a failure. But you're like, well,

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Speaker 2: I didn't actually fail, it just things happened that were

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Speaker 2: out of my control. How did you handle that? You know,

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Speaker 2: internally and personally.

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Speaker 1: Good. It's a good question.

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Speaker 4: You come off something where you think you know you

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Speaker 4: and heard a four win team and three years later

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Speaker 4: you win ten. You're on nine yard line against the

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Speaker 4: Super Bowl Cincinnati Bengals with a chance to tie the

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Speaker 4: game with four downs in thirty five seconds. We didn't

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Speaker 4: get it done. So I kind of came off that

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Speaker 4: season thinking, Okay, you know, it was a crazy year.

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Speaker 1: You alluded to it.

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Speaker 4: You know, John Bruden got fired, Henry Ruggs was in

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Speaker 4: that awful accident that killed a woman. We had a

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Speaker 4: lot of bad things happened, and rich Bassacia was unbelievable,

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Speaker 4: and to this day, I can't believe he's not a

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Speaker 4: head coach in the NFL. And I think Rich and

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Speaker 4: I saw things the same way, and I think we

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Speaker 4: saw that there could have been a future there.

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Speaker 1: Building on that playoff team.

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Speaker 4: So getting fired, I kinda I was like, Wow, I

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Speaker 4: understand there can be individual criticism on some of the

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Speaker 4: draft picks, and I certainly understand why not everybody knows

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Speaker 4: why guys got picked when they got picked, But to

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Speaker 4: your point, yeah, you know, everybody knows who the NFL

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Speaker 4: GM is. A lot of people knew me from the

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Speaker 4: NFL Network, and there was a lot of public criticism

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Speaker 4: out there, which I think I'm fine with because since

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Speaker 4: the first day I did a mock draft at the

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Speaker 4: NFL Network one hundred years ago, you know, people are

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Speaker 4: going to take shots at you, and I don't really care.

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Speaker 4: It's just when your kids are loved, ones are kind

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Speaker 4: of like, you know, who is this guy and why

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Speaker 4: does he hate you? And you just got to go

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Speaker 4: It's it's all right, We're good. So I don't know

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Speaker 4: if that answers your question, but I felt awkward for

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Speaker 4: a little while, because I think everybody does when you

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Speaker 4: get fired.

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Speaker 2: Were you confident when that season ended that you guys

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Speaker 2: were going to be the package deal and keep your

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Speaker 2: job or as Mark was interviewing outside people, were you

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Speaker 2: kind of was there an uncertainty there for you?

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean at one point, we're six and seven,

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Speaker 4: and you know, first we took a gut punched with

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Speaker 4: the Gruden thing. We were three and two. We won

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Speaker 4: Rich's first two games to go five and two, and

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Speaker 4: we go on. We had a bye week at five

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Speaker 4: and two, and we got we're getting healthy, We're feeling good.

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Speaker 4: We had beaten Philly and Denver back to back before

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Speaker 4: the bye week. We're feeling pretty good. And then the

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Speaker 4: Henry Ruggs thing happened, and that punched us in the

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Speaker 4: gut because Henry rugg is a great kid who made

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Speaker 4: an awful decision and we ended up losing a bunch

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Speaker 4: of games in a row there, So we were six

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Speaker 4: and seven at one point and I'm sure Mark Davis

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Speaker 4: was sitting there thinking, you know, I'm gonna move on.

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Speaker 4: And we were able to win the last four. We're

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Speaker 4: the number five seed in the AFC and we gave

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Speaker 4: the Raiders their second playoff team in twenty one years.

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Speaker 4: So I think there was some optimism between Rich and

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Speaker 4: I and the coaching staff and the scouting staff that

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Speaker 4: we're going to build something.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: You know this and I talking a lot about it

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Speaker 2: on my show, is you know this is the period

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Speaker 2: of time and really for the last post Combine is

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Speaker 2: when the coaches truly get involved in the draft process.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: And you were very outspoken, especially after your tenure, about

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Speaker 2: like we were a coach driven organization. Talk about the

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Speaker 2: balance of you know, not just John but the assistants

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Speaker 2: who have a streamline process to him getting heavily involved,

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Speaker 2: and how that changes a draft board of like we

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Speaker 2: were all over this guy, where we didn't like this guy,

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Speaker 2: and then things dramatically late March early April.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think the most important thing to understand is that,

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Speaker 4: regardless of the process in your building, when you put

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Speaker 4: a name in. He's a raider, right, and you unify

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Speaker 4: behind that guy, regardless of what the thought process was

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Speaker 4: to get there. You're very familiar with both sides of it.

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Speaker 4: Most NFL buildings, the GM has final say, and let's

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Speaker 4: face it, the GM and his staff live with that

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Speaker 4: draft about eleven and a half months of the year.

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Speaker 4: They've got the best depth and feel for the draft.

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Speaker 4: The coaches come in to your point after the season.

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Speaker 4: Then they've got to do free agency. Free agency with us,

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Speaker 4: and then they start in on the draft with us,

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Speaker 4: so they get a good feel and the coach's input

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Speaker 4: is valued at varying levels by different teams throughout the league.

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Speaker 4: And one of the best coaches in the history of

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Speaker 4: the league told me when I was first starting at

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Speaker 4: NFL Network. He said, Mike, one of the biggest things

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Speaker 4: I have is I got to evaluate the evaluators. Not

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Speaker 4: every coach is a great evaluator. They might be great teachers,

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Speaker 4: great fundamental teachers, but they're not great evaluators. And by

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Speaker 4: the way, not every scout is a great evaluator.

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Speaker 1: Right, So if.

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Speaker 4: You're the general manager, you got to kind of know

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Speaker 4: who you can trust, bottom line, and who might be

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Speaker 4: better off just being given a certain task and finishing

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Speaker 4: those tasks, and when you're going to really cut that

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Speaker 4: board down and set your final board, you only trust

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Speaker 4: certain number of people. So that's a long way of

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Speaker 4: saying that. You know, there's probably reasons why the GM

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Speaker 4: has final say in most buildings.

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Speaker 1: And this is not a.

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Speaker 4: Shot at John or Richie or anybody, right, this is

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Speaker 4: not a shot at any of them. We had a

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Speaker 4: different process and it could it be frustrating at times

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Speaker 4: for our scoutings, yeah, no doubt, But it's often frustrating

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Speaker 4: for the coaches as well. The bottom line is, I

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Speaker 4: don't think a GM is ever going to give a

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Speaker 4: coach a guy he really doesn't want. Makes no sense.

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Speaker 2: No, you know, obviously you had a relationship with John

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Speaker 2: and known him for a long time. How does that

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Speaker 2: relationship change? I mean, clearly a role of being someone's

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Speaker 2: friend and not being in business with him then becoming

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Speaker 2: his GM. Was it an eye opening, immediate experience or

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Speaker 2: was it an easy to transition for you?

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Speaker 4: Well, I had known John kind of just talking football

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Speaker 4: with him a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Socially.

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Speaker 4: You can sit in the room and have a beer

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Speaker 4: with John and have a great time and the one

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Speaker 4: thing I loved about John, and when I took the job,

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Speaker 4: I believed it was the most important thing was that

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Speaker 4: John has a passion for the game that's unfiltered. And

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Speaker 4: I think I do too, and I and I really

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Speaker 4: believe that if two guys I felt that strongly about

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Speaker 4: the game of football, that they ought to be able

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Speaker 4: to get to the right decision for the building, because

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Speaker 4: that's what it's about. It's about the building. You do

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Speaker 4: whatever is best for the damn building, right, and it's

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Speaker 4: okay to have disagreements. Trust me. I mean, every coach

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Speaker 4: in GM in the league as them. They're actually good

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Speaker 4: if you do it constructively and you sit down and

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Speaker 4: watch tape together, and you know, the more coaches help

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Speaker 4: the scouts of what they're looking for and why at

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Speaker 4: every position, the more it helps us do our jobs.

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Speaker 4: So I'm all in on coach involvement. I'm a coach's son.

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Speaker 4: I am all in on that. Ultimately, I think most

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Speaker 4: buildings are served with the personnel staff following it one

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Speaker 4: hundred percent of the way through.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'll never forget when you guys signed Mariota,

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Speaker 2: break me if I'm wrong. One of your comments after

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Speaker 2: the siding was like, hey, every GM and coach can

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Speaker 2: say they liked you. You know for a fact where

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Speaker 2: we were Me and John publicly stood on it. You

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Speaker 2: have my draft board, and that was I never really

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Speaker 2: thought about it like that, but you were right, and

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Speaker 2: he went and he's gone on to continue to be,

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Speaker 2: you know, continue his career. What was that a point

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Speaker 2: when you just dealt with especially some players, older players

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Speaker 2: that you had liked previously. Did that help you out

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Speaker 2: in some of your negotiations because obviously, and you've publicly

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Speaker 2: talked about this, maybe it's changed with Mark because of

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Speaker 2: more and more of the Vegas money's coming, but the Raiders'

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Speaker 2: financial situation relative to the Cowboys or the Niners or

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Speaker 2: the Rams is just has been differently. Maybe that's changing.

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Speaker 2: But did that help having a personal connection of like,

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Speaker 2: we like you and I did from twenty twelve or

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Speaker 2: whatever year.

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Speaker 4: There's no doubt for both John and I we had

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Speaker 4: a track record publicly on television and anybody could look

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Speaker 4: it up, and I think that was good for us

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Speaker 4: and the Raiders. I got there the last year in

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Speaker 4: Oakland in twenty nineteen, and you know, Mark Davis has

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Speaker 4: been aancial situations was probably one of the least positive

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Speaker 4: in the league, and now in Vegas, and then in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty, our first year in Vegas, COVID hits and

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Speaker 4: we have no fans, yeah, no income, no revenue. So

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Speaker 4: we had to structure contracts a certain way with our guarantees. Okay,

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Speaker 4: different than a lot of teams. And that's frustrating because

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Speaker 4: we didn't have as much cash as a lot of

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Speaker 4: other teams around the league did. And John would get

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Speaker 4: fresh frustrated. Well, you know, look at the Chargers, Look

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Speaker 4: what they did. Look at look what this team did.

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Speaker 4: Look at that. Why can't we do that?

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Speaker 1: And we just couldn't.

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Speaker 4: And that's okay, as long as you know going in

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Speaker 4: what the situation is and how you have to structure

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Speaker 4: your cash, that's all right. But to your point, I

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Speaker 4: think it did help with a lot of players. Nelson Aguilar,

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Speaker 4: he knew exactly where John and I stood on him,

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Speaker 4: and you know, he was coming out of Philly and

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Speaker 4: we wanted to sign him, and he signed with us

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Speaker 4: and had a hell of a year. I thought John

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Speaker 4: got the most at Nelson. I thought John did an

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Speaker 4: unbelievable job with Dark Carr getting them you know, since

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Speaker 4: John left, Dirk has gone down hill. Greg Olsen, our

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Speaker 4: offensive coordinator, also.

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Speaker 1: Had a big end in that.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, a lot of people knew where John and

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Speaker 4: I stood on a lot of players.

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Speaker 2: I watched some of your You went on Chris Long's podcast.

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Speaker 2: You've been on a couple of times, I think, but

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Speaker 2: last year and talking about how after the twenty one

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Speaker 2: season you were getting calls for Derek you know that

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Speaker 2: were in the first round range, and then just a

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Speaker 2: year or two later they have to cut him for nothing.

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Speaker 2: Did you guys ever seriously entertain I know you're not.

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Speaker 2: You know what happened then? But was Derek always because

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Speaker 2: you guys, it's not like you were drafting quarterbacks high.

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Speaker 2: So it's fair to say because that was always a

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Speaker 2: polarizing discussion how much they like him, how much they

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Speaker 2: don't like him? Yeah, well he was your quarterback consistently.

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Speaker 2: It's not like you you know, So, what was your

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Speaker 2: overall experience with Derek Carr? And did you guys ever

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Speaker 2: come close to trading him?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 1: We never.

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Speaker 4: I mean the reality is in the NFL, the way

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Speaker 4: I look at it is there's always gonna be X

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Speaker 4: number of franchise quarterbacks and that number could be five, six, seven, eight,

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Speaker 4: whatever it is, and you and I could, you know,

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Speaker 4: could could look at a list and you could say

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Speaker 4: they're five. I could say there's seven, but you know,

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Speaker 4: you know what it looks like and smells like when

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Speaker 4: when they're franchise gotes one group below that. You know,

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Speaker 4: let's say there's seven or eight, you know, six, seven, eight,

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Speaker 4: franchise one group below. That's another five or six guys

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Speaker 4: that I think you can win with, you know, and

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Speaker 4: meaning you can win even up to a super Bowl

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Speaker 4: with this group of guys as long as you're good

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Speaker 4: enough surrounding them, both on both sides of the ball.

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Speaker 4: I felt strongly that each year with John dark got better,

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Speaker 4: and by the end of the twenty one season, whether

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Speaker 4: you were a dark Car guy or not, I think

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Speaker 4: it probably had to say. He's a top twelve or

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Speaker 4: thirteen quarterback, and if you liked him, he might have

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Speaker 4: been eight, nine, ten. If you didn't like him, he

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Speaker 4: was twelve, thirteen, fourteen. But Dirk was was a top

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Speaker 4: twelve quarterback in our opinion. So the question is, somebody

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Speaker 4: can give you a first round pick, but if you

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Speaker 4: don't have an answer for who's getting under center next year.

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Speaker 4: That first round pick isn't doing you any good unless

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Speaker 4: you're using it for leverage to get up and get

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Speaker 4: a guy you want, you know, unless you're using it.

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Speaker 4: But we never got an answer satisfactory as to how

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Speaker 4: we would replace Dirk. And from our perspective, we're getting

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Speaker 4: better every year. We went from you know, John's first year,

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Speaker 4: they had four wins, then we went to seven, eight, ten.

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Speaker 4: We thought we were getting better, and we thought Dirk

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Speaker 4: was playing at a higher level each season.

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Speaker 2: How does your experience going from NFL Network and stacking

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Speaker 2: the board every year for the league and then being

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Speaker 2: and running a team and actually drafting the human beings

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Speaker 2: change your thought on the talent character kind of combination

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Speaker 2: and looking back, what you learn the most in terms

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Speaker 2: of of that and and football character and all the

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Speaker 2: off the field stuff.

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Speaker 4: Well, when I was at NFL Network, I did two

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Speaker 4: different things. I kind of had my own board of

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Speaker 4: my top hundred, my top one fifty, my by position

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Speaker 4: board Mike Mayos. But I also had a league value board,

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Speaker 4: and I think it's one of the things that helped

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Speaker 4: me the most on draft weekends. In hindsight, was that

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Speaker 4: I had a pretty good feel for team because my

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Speaker 4: job for eighteen or twenty years was to be in

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Speaker 4: all thirty two NFL billings. So I had gotten to

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Speaker 4: know a lot of coaches, gms, scouts, whatever at every level,

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Speaker 4: and it had a pretty good feel of the footprint

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Speaker 4: for everybody how they draft right. So I kind of

427
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Speaker 4: came out of eighteen to twenty years NFL network saying

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Speaker 4: I know which you know. I could tell you that

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Speaker 4: for the most part, Pittsburgh with Kevin Kolbert was gonna

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Speaker 4: have seven picks. They were gonna stay static and each

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Speaker 4: they weren't gonna move up, they weren't gonna move back,

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Speaker 4: and it was probably gonna be a position of need

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Speaker 4: in descending order.

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Speaker 1: New England was gonna.

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Speaker 4: Move all over the board, up, down, around. They were

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Speaker 4: going to trade in the next year. They were gonna

437
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 4: do all kinds of things. Howie was gonna make all

438
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 4: kinds of trades in Philly. He was proactive, you know,

439
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 4: so you knew the footprint of each team. Kind of

440
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 4: that that helped me move up move around the draft

441
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 4: board a little bit with the Raiders. But uh, at

442
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 4: the end of the day, the difference is when you're

443
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 4: in a building and you know this, and for most

444
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,959
Speaker 4: of the year you're stacking. You know, you're getting all

445
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 4: your scout input, you're getting your position, You're you're stacking

446
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 4: it by position, you're bringing the coaches in and you're

447
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 4: getting their inputs. Really, the hardest thing is to say, Okay,

448
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 4: you got a wide out that's sixty eight. You got

449
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 4: a corner that's a sixty eight. You got a guard

450
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 4: that's the sixty eight. How do you stack those three

451
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 4: sixty eights and then multiply by that by you know,

452
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 4: three hundred players, yeah, you know, and and to come

453
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 4: up with with the Raider final board, you know, and

454
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 4: I think they're in lies the nuance and and they're

455
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 4: they're in for every team in the league.

456
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: You got to know who you are.

457
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 4: Like I always said, John, I always knew that the

458
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,360
Speaker 4: Ravens and the Steelers, just to pick two teams who

459
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 4: drafted well for years in the same division, they always

460
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 4: kind of knew.

461
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: Who they were.

462
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 4: They knew what the what a Raven or a Steeler

463
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 4: looked like and smelled like, you know, And so I

464
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 4: could look at a player in the draft and go,

465
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 4: that guy's gonna go to the Ravens and he would

466
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 4: you know, Da Costa and Ozzie were gonna take them,

467
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 4: or that guy's a Steeler. And that was a strength

468
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 4: for those kinds. They knew who they were, they knew

469
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 4: a type of players fit them the most, and they

470
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,719
Speaker 4: stayed in that lane and they always draft well. And

471
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 4: the thing that you know, maybe my my biggest frustration

472
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 4: might be that sometimes I think you just got to

473
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 4: go get good football players. You can't always just go

474
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 4: for need. And I believe that going in, and I

475
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 4: believe it even more coming out.

476
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 2: Do you think about or have any major regrets from

477
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 2: draft day over the years when you were the gym.

478
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I got a bunch of them. None I'm gonna

479
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 4: share it today, but you know, I mean, everybody's gonna

480
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 4: miss I know some guys I missed on, and you know,

481
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 4: I kind of look back. My first year was what

482
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 4: twenty nineteen, and we had three first round picks, and really,

483
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 4: you know, of the three, Josh Jacobs is the only

484
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 4: one that's become a high level Pro Bowl player, and

485
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 4: that's bad. You know, John Abram is in and out

486
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 4: of the league, and cleieff Errol was a good, solid player,

487
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 4: but not the number four overall pick in the draft.

488
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: The flip side.

489
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 4: Of that conversation is that we got Max Crosby in

490
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 4: the fourth round. You know, we got Hunter Renfro in

491
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 4: the fifth round. We got our punter, who's a Pro

492
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 4: Bowl punter as a free agent. We got Keyshawn Nixon,

493
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 4: who's now the Packers All Pro punt returner and starting

494
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 4: nickel as a free agent. We got Andre James as

495
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 4: a free agent, the starting center. We got Alec Gangold

496
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 4: as a free agent. We got five Pro bowlers in

497
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 4: that draft and people, and that became kind of the

498
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 4: So on one hand, to answer your question, John, one

499
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 4: of my biggest frustrations is those first round picks. On

500
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 4: the other hand, we did fairly well throughout the draft

501
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 4: in nineteen, we did okay in twenty one. Twenty was

502
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 4: a whole different story and highly frustrating. But you gotta

503
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 4: be honest with yourself, and we did pretty well with

504
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 4: the third day guys. But you can't miss on as

505
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 4: many first round picks as the Raiders did.

506
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 1: As we did.

507
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 2: Obviously, you know, you talked about the GMS and you

508
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 2: got to know every single one of them, texting, phone call,

509
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 2: basis personally, How did that relationship change when you were

510
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 2: named the GM and then your time when you were

511
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 2: with John did that it? Did it dramatically alter some

512
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 2: relationships and just the way you guys communicated, Well, I.

513
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 4: Don't think it altered the uh the functional dynamical relationship

514
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 4: either respect friends, your.

515
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 2: Friends, but I just mean the way that you guys

516
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 2: would talk about players.

517
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: Did it?

518
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 2: Did it change?

519
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: Did Yeah?

520
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I'm not going to call up

521
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 4: Da Costa and he and I aren't going to share

522
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 4: notes on, you know, the top five wide outs in

523
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 4: the draft, you know. And I always I loved how

524
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 4: We when in Philly. I live in Philly, but you know,

525
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 4: how He's one of the most proactive draft guys in

526
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 4: the league. I mean, excuse me, trade guys, and when

527
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 4: how We he picks the phone up and calls you.

528
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 4: You got to be on your p's and q's because

529
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 4: Howie knows every data piece on every player and he's

530
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 4: really smart. He's thinking three moves ahead every of everybody.

531
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 4: So I think all it does is changed the dynamic

532
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 4: of the relationship. I respect how We, I respect Derek

533
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 4: our you know, but it's different. You're not sharing information

534
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 4: like he used to.

535
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 2: You know, it's funny, Jed. The owner's meetings were last

536
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 2: week and Jed York gave a comment basically like, yeah,

537
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 2: we missed on Trey Lance, but ultimately we got brought perty.

538
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: So if you just look at it, we invested all

539
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 2: these assets. Like you said, if I said you got

540
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 2: two picks, one pick is four and I'll just pick.

541
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: Let's say Crosby was picked one eighty and you got

542
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 2: and I said, one's going to be Max Crosby. Who

543
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 2: cares whether it's for one eighty, right, you just want

544
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 2: Max Crosby. But ultimately you just we view those picks

545
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 2: and rightfully so right because the power of a high

546
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 2: pick and the money you have to pay him. But

547
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 2: I've heard you talking before. We hear about all this

548
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 2: draft coming up, all these trades. It does take two

549
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 2: to tango right to move back. Everyone's like, why didn't

550
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 2: you move back? Well, we would have loved you, but

551
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 2: the phone wasn't ringing. Is that a process that people

552
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 2: don't talk about enough. It's like you get stuck.

553
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 4: I think the general public everybody wants to play GM

554
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 4: these days in this fantasy football world, and they're like yeah,

555
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 4: just trade out of that pick. They have no idea

556
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 4: how hard I tried to trade out of that number

557
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 4: four pick. I mean, one, two, and three happened exactly

558
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 4: like we expected, which was Kyler, Murray Bosa, and Quinn Williams.

559
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 2: Didn't you try to trade with the forty nine ers

560
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: to get to get up to get Nick Bosa?

561
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: Yeah?

562
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 4: I did, I did, you know, I tried to trade

563
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 4: with them, and then I called the Jets, and you

564
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 4: know they saw the same thing I did, especially if

565
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 4: you're looking for a defensive lineman, which we were. You know,

566
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 4: they got the two best ones and so you know,

567
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 4: bottom line is I would have loved to move down,

568
00:29:58,480 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 4: but we couldn't.

569
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 2: You know. Speaking of the forty nine ers quarterback brock Perty,

570
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,239
Speaker 2: did you evaluate him coming out and what are your

571
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 2: just I mean, the conversations around him are all over

572
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 2: the place. My take is pretty simple. It's hard to

573
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 2: watch him play, and I think he's a good player.

574
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 2: I don't have any other conclusion because I just watched

575
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 2: the kid play. Looks pretty good to me. But your

576
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 2: thoughts on him at Iowa State and just are you

577
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: surprised that what's happened over the last couple of years

578
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 2: with him.

579
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 4: I did not do his tape. It was not a

580
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 4: draft I was involved in. Every time I watch him

581
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 4: and some of the crossover tape that I've done because

582
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 4: I didn't, I haven't done a San Francisco game in

583
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 4: the last two years. It just looks like and Sean one.

584
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 4: I think one of the hidden arts and quarterback play

585
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 4: is anticipation, and I don't think we talk about it enough,

586
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 4: and it's hard to see sometimes in these college offenses

587
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 4: that are so lateral. You know everything's a lateral throw,

588
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 4: but pretty he's anticipation, timing, accuracy is high level stuff.

589
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 4: Fun the watch and the fact that he had so

590
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 4: many starts at Iowa State, And again I didn't do

591
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 4: his tape, so I can't talk about that, but I

592
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 4: do love the number of starts he had. He looks

593
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 4: very comfortable in the pocket. That's another thing we don't

594
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 4: talk enough about. Just I'm a big believer that a

595
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 4: quarterback either innately has presence and awareness in the pocket

596
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 4: or he doesn't, and you can tell perty has it.

597
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was looking at some of the athletic testing

598
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 2: numbers from JJ McCarthy. He's shorter than Alex Smith. But

599
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 2: they're very similar athletes, And I would say JJ, obviously

600
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 2: the way he played for Jim Harball would have some

601
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 2: parallels the way Alex had a lot of success. The difference,

602
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 2: I would say is JJ has a better arm. So

603
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 2: if Alex would have had a better arm, I mean,

604
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: he was already a solid player, he might have even

605
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 2: been really even a better player. What are your thoughts

606
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 2: on JJ McCarthy, who clearly looks like he's going to

607
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: get drafted really high.

608
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've got an old you know, just like every

609
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,959
Speaker 4: old skut I've got. I the only top quarterback I

610
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 4: haven't done is JJ McCarthy because I did a top

611
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 4: hundred overall and he wasn't on my list.

612
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: This is going back to last August.

613
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 4: Okay, so I haven't done him. I find it interesting that,

614
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 4: for instance, if you're gonna look at Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels,

615
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 4: Drake May, I would throw Michael Pennix in that group too.

616
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: I did.

617
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 2: How about his How about his pro day the other day?

618
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 2: Four five five, It jumps thirty six inches. Mike look

619
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: for a pocket cornerback who he knows a great thrower

620
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 2: of the ball. He's an athlete.

621
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 4: I don't necessarily think I saw four or five five

622
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 4: on tape, but he is a big, strong athletic kid

623
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 4: that can layer the ball at all three levels. He

624
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 4: took a beating against Oregon, he kept on ticking. Why

625
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 4: I like him is he wins in the pocket. He

626
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 4: can he can get outside the pocket, but he wins

627
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 4: in the pocket. He's shuffles, he moves, he keeps his

628
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 4: eyes up, and some of his back shoulder stuff is

629
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 4: high level NFL. I mean, he just has a gifted

630
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 4: field back shoulder at all three levels. I don't think,

631
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 4: and maybe it's the medical but the kid's been healthy

632
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 4: for two straight years now, and you got you got

633
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 4: to listen to your doctors. But I don't understand why

634
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 4: he's not getting more traction out there as a high

635
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 4: level quarterback.

636
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 2: Well, Mike, how do you balance that? Because clearly his

637
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 2: tape speaks for itself. He was fantastic. He had several

638
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 2: season ending injuries, I think three, and you know he's

639
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 2: a little older. You're not a medical professional. So when

640
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 2: the trainer goes well, he's fully healthy. He hasn't missed

641
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 2: a game in two years. You see him at the

642
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 2: Pro day, he's running four five five jumping. He's clearly

643
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 2: healthy right now. But how do you balance that unquantifiable Well,

644
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 2: when he was younger, he got the shit beat out

645
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 2: of him. He didn't make it through seasons. Now, what

646
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 2: if that's never a case, or what if it crops

647
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 2: in immediately? Well, that keeping up at night because he's

648
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 2: I like him.

649
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 4: You couched it well, and the conversation in the draft room.

650
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 4: We'd have our doctors and our trainers and John and

651
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 4: I and a couple of high level people in there,

652
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,439
Speaker 4: and I would be saying what you just said. I'd

653
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 4: be like, wait a minute. Four years in a row

654
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 4: in Indiana, he couldn't finish a season. Yet he transfers

655
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 4: and starts every game the last two. And from my perspective,

656
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 4: he had two acls. He had a clavicle shoulder. You

657
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 4: know though, if you now, doctor, you tell me the

658
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 4: other side of it. I know he hadn't missed a

659
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 4: game in two years. To me, that means he's clean.

660
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: Yeah right.

661
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 4: The only way to me you get this kid gets

662
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 4: minimized medically is if the doctor pounds the table in

663
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 4: your draft room and says, uh huh, you're you're not

664
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 4: even gonna get one contract out of this kid. He's

665
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 4: got a bad knee or a bad shoulder. If the

666
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 4: doctor doesn't say that, then this kid's got to be

667
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 4: given a clean bill of health. Agree, and and to

668
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 4: be I mean there every year there are a couple

669
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 4: of kids that are tough. I mean the starting guard

670
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 4: for Kansas City from from Tennessee Smith Smith, Yeah, Gray Smith.

671
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 4: I mean he was a first or second round pick

672
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 4: on every board, right, and John and I both want them,

673
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 4: and our doctors told this point blank, no, he's got

674
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 4: a heart issue. That could be an awful situation if

675
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 4: it turned the wrong way. We can't take him. And meanwhile,

676
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 4: you get into the fifth or sixth round and Kansas

677
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 4: City's taking him, and you know he started every game

678
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 4: since and you're pulling your hair out.

679
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 2: So how do you balance? Let's use him as an example.

680
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 2: Is he just a complete off the board or like

681
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 2: you get to a point like, what do we even care?

682
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 2: It's a fifth round?

683
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, if it wasn't a heart, I think you're what

684
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 4: you just said would be true, Like, okay, we get

685
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 4: to the sixth round, then let's take a flyer on

686
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 4: a kid that could be a pro I think our doctors,

687
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 4: and I'm being respectful here, I think our doctors at

688
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 4: that point were saying, wait a minute, if if this

689
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 4: thing went wrong in the wrong direction, we could have

690
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 4: something awful, and I don't think we want to put

691
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 4: that kid at risk for that. So we're in the

692
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 4: fifth or sixth round and John and I both want

693
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 4: this kid, but they're telling us no.

694
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 2: You've watched every top quarterback on film over the last

695
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 2: two and a half decades. Caleb's been a well discussed

696
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 2: player for years. Now, what's what are your just thoughts

697
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 2: on the overall prospect?

698
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, and where would.

699
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 2: You rank them with some of the top guys over

700
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 2: the years, you know, the Staffords, the lux the Trevor

701
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,879
Speaker 2: Lawrence is just the the no brainer number one guys.

702
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: I don't know.

703
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 4: That's a good question. Here's what I tell you. I

704
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 4: think about him. He's my number one guy this year.

705
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 4: I wish i'd seen him personally up close, because I

706
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 4: have not been in the same room or the same

707
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 4: building with him, and I don't like it when I

708
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 4: don't see quarterbacks throw the ball live. I'm doing everything

709
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 4: off tape now. But having said all those things, I

710
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 4: don't know how thick his breath frame is up top.

711
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 4: But he's got a strong, older body. You can see

712
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 4: that on tape. He runs through a lot of tackles.

713
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 4: He's strong in the pocket. What I love about him

714
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 4: is I do forget all the fancy stuff, all the

715
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 4: off balance throws, off platform throws, his escapes, his scrambles.

716
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 4: You gotta win inside the pocket to be a franchise

717
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 4: quarterback in the NFL, and this kid wins in the pocket.

718
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 4: He's got his eyes stay up, He's got a natural feel.

719
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 4: He took a beating this year, way more than he

720
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 4: did in twenty two. And did he make some throws

721
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 4: he probably wants to have back.

722
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he was.

723
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 4: Trying to win football games. He was taking more chances,

724
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 4: he was getting sacked more, and you can knock him

725
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 4: on all those things. I see a competitor that can

726
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 4: make every throw at every level. He's stronger than you

727
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 4: would think he is, and I think he's a high level,

728
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 4: potential franchise quarterback.

729
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 2: What about the next couple guys, because I you know,

730
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 2: it's kind of up in the air. Who's going to

731
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 2: be the number two pick? How would you rank Drake

732
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 2: May and Jaden Daniels.

733
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 4: The Jadeen Daniels thing. You know how, John, when you're

734
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 4: watching tape and you're not really sure what to expect,

735
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 4: and you put the tape in, you go out, and

736
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 4: the more you watch, the more you're going, Holy crack,

737
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 4: this this is really fun. That's how I was with

738
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 4: Jayden Daniels. The more I watched from a from his

739
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 4: legs perspective, it reminded me of Lamar Jackson when he

740
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,760
Speaker 4: came out like he was as fast as he needed

741
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 4: to be. He was not only running away from linebackers,

742
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 4: he's running away from corners and safeties that have angles

743
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 4: on him. You can't just make a decision that you're

744
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 4: going to draft a guy because of his legs, but

745
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 4: his accuracy on the deep ball. He had fifty five starts.

746
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,800
Speaker 4: I'm a little worried about his upper body frame, but again,

747
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 4: I think Daniels is really talented. Drake May had twenty

748
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 4: six starts. You know what's interesting, John, You got to

749
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,959
Speaker 4: go back, if you haven't already, take a look at

750
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 4: North Carolina State. They're getting beat up in the second half.

751
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 4: And one of my frustrations with him is that I

752
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 4: felt like he was overly protective of the football at times,

753
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 4: not throwing with anticipation, not throwing guys open, trusting his

754
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 4: legs when things broke down instead of waiting to see

755
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 4: if that second or third progression works, they get down.

756
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 4: Like sixteen or eighteen against NCI State offensive plays, I

757
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,720
Speaker 4: want to say, like thirty three to forty eight or fifty.

758
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 4: There's a collection of plays in there where he does

759
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 4: all things I just talked about him not doing. He

760
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 4: throws guys open, he throws with anticipation, he runs when

761
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 4: he has to, He takes a couple of shots in

762
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 4: the pocket, gets up and makes another play. And the

763
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 4: only reason he was doing it is because they were

764
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 4: behind and he had to try to find ways to

765
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 4: make a play. And if you can do it in

766
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 4: those situations, I believe you can do it beyond that.

767
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 4: So I like Drake May I think I like Jaydon

768
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 4: and Daniels a little bit more. I like Michael Pennix

769
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 4: in that conversation, and then you know, you talked about McCarthy,

770
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,439
Speaker 4: a couple of guys that you know people are talking about.

771
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 4: Bone Nicks is a first round pick, and I didn't

772
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 4: see that. I don't feel like his physical traits match

773
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 4: up with those other guys, and two guys that I

774
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 4: think we don't hear enough about are Spencer Rattler and

775
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 4: Michael Pratt from Tulane. Like I would put those two

776
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 4: guys with bone nicks, to be honest with.

777
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 2: You, safe to say second day guys. I mean second

778
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 2: second round guys. Excuse me for me.

779
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 4: Rattler and Pratt would be second day guys. And I

780
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 4: think Rattler's talent is second round all day long. I mean,

781
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 4: if you put the Georgia tape on, you know, and

782
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 4: they're leading or tied at whatever it was at halftime,

783
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 4: I mean it's all him. He was getting the crap

784
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 4: beat out of him with a bad offensive line by

785
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,399
Speaker 4: University of Georgia, and he just kept making plays. Now

786
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 4: in the second half, he got the crap beat out

787
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 4: of him and so did they, but he just kept

788
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 4: trying to make plays. I think he's got arm talent.

789
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 4: I think he's athletic. I think he can escape pressure.

790
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 4: I like Rattler and Michael Pratt is I would He's

791
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 4: not quite as electric, but I think he throws with

792
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 4: anticipation and timing and he will be a quality backup

793
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 4: if not get a chance to start somewhere.

794
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 2: I'm with you on the Jay and Daniels I threw

795
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 2: on the moleak neighbors cut up and you just it's

796
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 2: hard not to watch the quarterback. I mean it was

797
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,760
Speaker 2: the accuracy, but you know about the athleticism, I would

798
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 2: say a lot like Lamar. Lamar got very I mean

799
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 2: he's lucky in the sense that he got to go

800
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 2: to the Ravens, a high level operation with a high

801
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 2: level coach and good defense. I mean who you are

802
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,879
Speaker 2: as a quarterback, especially a dual thread quarterback. And same

803
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 2: thing with Drake may Right. I mean, I think some

804
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 2: comps are a little bit like Josh Allen. I think

805
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 2: Josh more physically gifted, but in the sense needs a

806
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 2: lot of work. But there's a lot there to work with.

807
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 2: But I'd say Jocks is somewhat of an outlier of

808
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 2: a guy that maximized all those things. Whenever you draft

809
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 2: a guy at that position specifically that just you're just

810
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 2: not quite sure it's isn't that pretty risky proposition? Because

811
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 2: the one knock on Jayden is he's thin. I know,

812
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 2: he weighed into two ten. Most people think he weighs

813
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 2: one hundred ninety five pounds, probably right, but he has

814
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 2: done it at the highest level against the best competition

815
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 2: in the SEC. I turned on that NC State game.

816
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 2: I remember in the middle of the year, all this hype

817
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 2: and you're watching that middle stretch of the season, You're like,

818
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 2: what is what am I missing here? And you know,

819
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 2: but clearly because when people talk about him, some of

820
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 2: the first things they say, why six four, two thirty, right,

821
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 2: And that's the first thing you say about him, that's

822
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 2: you know what about you know, it's accurate his anticipation.

823
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 2: So it's a it's a polarizing girl. I don't want

824
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 2: to keep you all day. But obviously the wide receiver

825
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 2: class is pretty good. And I think I'm from northern California,

826
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 2: the Sacramento area, so NAP is right up the road.

827
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 2: To go from Napa High School to Georgia and on

828
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 2: a team with seven hundred NFL players, most of whom

829
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 2: they got drafted really high, and immediately be one of

830
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 2: their best players. I think brock Powers is one of

831
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 2: the better college players I've seen in recent memory. And

832
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 2: at that level, you know, if the Chargers were to

833
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 2: get stuck at five, which is possible, right, if the

834
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 2: four quarterbacks go, they're going to have their pick of

835
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 2: the litter. They don't need a left tackle, so Alt technically,

836
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 2: I'm sure he could probably play right tackle. But the

837
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 2: wide receiver were Bowers. I would put Bowers right there

838
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 2: with the wide receivers in terms of what I've seen.

839
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 2: What's your thoughts on on brock Powers.

840
00:43:56,120 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think more and more. My buddy Daniel Jeremiah

841
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 4: calls it kind of a positionless NFL right now, and

842
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 4: I agree with them, Like, I don't care what label

843
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 4: you put on wide out x y Z or tight

844
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:14,280
Speaker 4: end y F whatever. I don't care about the label.

845
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 4: He's a playmaker, okay, and you're going to be creative

846
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 4: in ways you use them, just like San Francisco does

847
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 4: with their tight end out of Iowa Kittle. You know,

848
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 4: similar kind of size, body type to Bowers. Bowers is

849
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 4: a baller and whether it's making catches against corners, safeties

850
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 4: and linebackers, running away from people using his body. What

851
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 4: I like is he'll even line up in line and compete.

852
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 4: And I don't think he's going to make a living

853
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 4: in line in the NFL, but he'll compete and that

854
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 4: just as a former scout John, You and I. We're

855
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 4: looking for competitors, right, you know, we're looking for guys

856
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 4: to compete. Their ass is off and that's what about.

857
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 4: He's a gifted dude in the past game, and he

858
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 4: will compet eat in the run game. Is he a

859
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 4: top ten pick? I think on paper talent wise, yes

860
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,720
Speaker 4: he is. And I don't care whether what you call him.

861
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 4: But it's a little bit what you mentioned Lamar Jackson

862
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 4: a minute ago, and he said it's lucky Baltimore drafted

863
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 4: him well. To Baltimore's credit, they've created a whole offensive

864
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 4: scheme around what he does well. Sure, and that's what

865
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 4: Greg Roman was good at. That's what you know. Some

866
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 4: of the things they did to put Lamar in position

867
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 4: to win. And that's the same thing with Bowers. You

868
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 4: got to put him in position to win. You got

869
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 4: to take advantage of what he does really well, and

870
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 4: that's winning the past game.

871
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: And I think he's special.

872
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 2: Would you would you be comfortable taking him above the

873
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 2: other three wide outs if you were in a position

874
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 2: if you you could take either.

875
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 4: I love neighbors, I love Marvin Harrison, A Dunza. Is

876
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 4: I have a done thing just notch below those two,

877
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 4: and I think Bowers as a weapon to Yeah, I

878
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 4: think you could lump him in there. But again, the

879
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,800
Speaker 4: caveat is if you're gonna take a guy at four

880
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 4: or five or eight or even you know, any if

881
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 4: you're gonna take that tight end somewhere in there or

882
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 4: that wide out, you better find ways to get them

883
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 4: the football. You can't just draft him and say go

884
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 4: block the defensive end and bess protection.

885
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 2: We're not doing that, Okay, I get you out here

886
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 2: on this Most years they're just you know, littered with

887
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 2: defensive players. Well, whether it's you know, a couple of corners,

888
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 2: some pass rushers, Miles Garrett, nick Bosa, whoever. It doesn't

889
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 2: really feel like that in this draft's who's a defensive

890
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 2: player that you just go? I don't think we're talking

891
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 2: about him as much. And sometimes it's because the quarterbacks

892
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,879
Speaker 2: take up suck up so much oxygen, but it illegitimately.

893
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a chance the defensive player does not

894
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 2: go in the top ten, which would be kind of crazy,

895
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 2: but it definitely is on the table right now.

896
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 4: I think there's some edge rushers that are exciting, you know,

897
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:03,959
Speaker 4: the Dallas Turner from Alabama, the kid from Penn State

898
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,439
Speaker 4: Chob Robinson. I think the lat Too kid a lot

899
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 4: too from UCLA. He's gifted, you know, He's a big,

900
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 4: strong kid that can play on either side. He can

901
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 4: play with his hand down, he can stand up, he

902
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 4: can drop. He's an athletic kid. I like him a lot.

903
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 4: Verse from Florida State. I think any of those guys

904
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 4: are worthy of talking about. The linebacker from what A

905
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 4: and M is a Cooper.

906
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,760
Speaker 1: Yeh boy? Is he fund the watch on tape?

907
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 4: And the two corners that I really like are Terry

908
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,879
Speaker 4: and Arnold from Alabama. And a kid that I don't

909
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,439
Speaker 4: think people are talking enough about is a Lassiter kid

910
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 4: from Georgia. I mean, I think he was my He

911
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,879
Speaker 4: and Arnold were my two top rated corners, and I'm

912
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 4: seeing a lot of second round grades on him, and

913
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 4: I just I think he's a better player than that.

914
00:47:57,680 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 2: What do you think the keys are? One more question

915
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 2: corner now, I mean, living a day to day like

916
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:06,280
Speaker 2: you did, is that I've always thought the top end speed,

917
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,359
Speaker 2: it's hard to be a slow corner. Obviously you can

918
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,320
Speaker 2: get away with it a little bit in certain type defenses,

919
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 2: but still you're going to get put put in position.

920
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 2: The level of talent at wide receiver in the NFL

921
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:17,879
Speaker 2: right now, it has to be top of the botto

922
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 2: never been deeper. It's hard to kind of hide when

923
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 2: you're a high four five low four to six guy.

924
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 2: Is that a make or break number for you that

925
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 2: you need to I mean, have some speed at a

926
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 2: certain number cutoff you're not touching.

927
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 4: I try not to get too heavy on the cutoff

928
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 4: on the numbers. I want to know what they ran.

929
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 4: More importantly, I think in today's world of back shoulder

930
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 4: throws is can can a corner find a ball with

931
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 4: his back to the quarterback? And the other thing is

932
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 4: I think you've got to be cognizant of what your

933
00:48:56,080 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 4: defensive coaches are asking your corners to do. You know,

934
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 4: are you an are you a single high team playing

935
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 4: off and mostly zone concept, Cover one, cover three? Or

936
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 4: are you going to be a press team or are

937
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 4: you going to do a little bit of both? And

938
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 4: I think once you answer all those questions and you

939
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 4: know what your defensive coaches are looking for you, the

940
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 4: fit is the most important thing. I mean, I've played

941
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 4: with some corners that are four five five that just

942
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 4: have a great feel for the game and they don't

943
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 4: look for five to five. But but the number the

944
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 4: hardest thing to find I always thought is when when

945
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 4: the corner's back is turned. You're a press corner and

946
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 4: you're running with the receiver and it can either be

947
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 4: a go a fade or a comeback back shoulder. All

948
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 4: the advantages go to the wide out. In the quarterback,

949
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 4: can you find the football whether it's a deep throw

950
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 4: or on the back shoulder with And a lot of

951
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,479
Speaker 4: these guys, no matter how gifted they are, they can't

952
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 4: find it. If you can't find it, ultimately, you're gonna

953
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 4: get exposed.

954
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: Yeah.

955
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 2: I've always thought instincts are an attribute you can't quantify,

956
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 2: but in a lot of positions, you either have it

957
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 2: or you don't. It separates the men from the boys,

958
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 2: you know, at the highest level. Well, Mike, what time's

959
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 2: your tea time tomorrow? Uh?

960
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 1: Probably nine am, Johnny.

961
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 2: Kind of a well, enjoy I cannot thank you enough

962
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 2: for doing this, and you know, respect the hell out

963
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 2: of you and enjoy the next couple of weeks leading

964
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 2: up to the draft and have a great summer.

965
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, I appreciate you having me on and I've followed

966
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 4: your work in the past, and I know how much

967
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 4: you love it, you have a passion for it, so

968
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 4: I wish you the best.

969
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Mike, talk to you soon.

970
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: You got it.

971
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 2: Appreciate you, Mike.

972
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, my pleasure. Guys.

973
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 2: The volume