Speaker 1: Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio and The Black Effect. Hey, what's up everybody?
Speaker 1: I am truly truly excited listen. This next guest can
Speaker 1: definitely entrancing with their talent and transport your emotions to
Speaker 1: another level. And he's coming up next here on Checking In.
Speaker 1: I get really excited when we talked to musicians, singers, writers,
Speaker 1: everyone's creative that comes on my podcast. But I'm extremely
Speaker 1: excited about this next guest. He's an American jazz trumpeter, composer, producer,
Speaker 1: and vocalist. Yes, he's the Grammy Award nominee, three time
Speaker 1: Echo Award nominee, as well as a theme A Door
Speaker 1: Oppressor Award recipient. Please welcome the A Door the Wait
Speaker 1: a minute, not Theodore. Thank you for having me. And
Speaker 1: I said Theodore because I just said Theodore Oppressor and
Speaker 1: knowing that THEO is short for Theodore. But if you
Speaker 1: wanted people to call you Theodore, that's what you'd go by.
Speaker 1: So y'all welcome once again, Theo Croaker. Let's go. So.
Speaker 1: I love jazz, but I'm sure in order to have
Speaker 1: played jazz, you have to start off playing I don't
Speaker 1: know did you start playing in school because you're not
Speaker 1: in school. We just played the American standards. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I came from a musical family, so like really
Speaker 1: I started off in the bathtub with chopsticks or you know,
Speaker 1: at the dinner table with silverware. But when I started
Speaker 1: getting training, it was in middle school and it was
Speaker 1: in band class for trump. Yeah. Absolutely, they talked the
Speaker 1: whole class together at one time. It wasn't like I
Speaker 1: got something special right right right, And I'm so glad
Speaker 1: that you talked about how you grew up at a
Speaker 1: family of musicians. Your family history is jazz. Yeah, we're
Speaker 1: gonna start with your grandfather, Doc Cheat them who played
Speaker 1: trumpet with Chicken Web and others in the nineteen twenties.
Speaker 1: I think obviously in the nineteen twenties, I don't know
Speaker 1: was it if it was called jazz, if there was
Speaker 1: a name for it, was it's like most authentic form.
Speaker 1: You know. It's interesting because through all my research I
Speaker 1: find that all the musicians would call it black music,
Speaker 1: and they actually didn't like the title jazz. Jazz was
Speaker 1: kind of like a title given to them because they
Speaker 1: were being marginalized and kind of put us to subculture,
Speaker 1: and then that turned into like most things in this country,
Speaker 1: that turned into then a popular phrase for marketing. So
Speaker 1: it was like, so they really just for then there
Speaker 1: was black music, you know, it was their pop music
Speaker 1: of the day. It was what they were playing in
Speaker 1: the clubs where people would dances what they were playing,
Speaker 1: and some of the after our places where you do
Speaker 1: all kinds of things, and it was really just you know,
Speaker 1: the music of the community. Yeah, jazz, bebop, all of that.
Speaker 1: It's it's just something one of my favorites that I
Speaker 1: just love to sometimes, like go down a rabbit hole
Speaker 1: on YouTube or I find myself. Um, y'all, don't judge me.
Speaker 1: But yes, NPR certain NPR stations that have conversations with
Speaker 1: jazz musicians or historians or just play that music where
Speaker 1: it sounds like you could still hear the striations of
Speaker 1: the vinyl or it's just really really really authentic. But
Speaker 1: like you said, as far as marketing, I'm glad you
Speaker 1: mentioned that there had to be a title for quote
Speaker 1: unquote marketing. Yes, jazz is along the lines of when
Speaker 1: we started hearing words like rock and roll. That was
Speaker 1: when the Rolling Stones and the Beatles that's when they
Speaker 1: started taking black music from Muddy Waters and Howland Wolf
Speaker 1: and Bo Diddley and turning it into something that then
Speaker 1: became pop, so that it can separated from the black musicians,
Speaker 1: because you know, America was segregated also, and it's listening
Speaker 1: and marketing format, so they wanted to market this music
Speaker 1: to non black people by having non black people performance,
Speaker 1: so they had to create these titles to separate them.
Speaker 1: It's kind of deep, but it goes along the lines
Speaker 1: of a lot of the stuff that we're now realizing
Speaker 1: and facing about our history. My question is, though, you
Speaker 1: grew up in the hip hop era, so why trumpet
Speaker 1: when so many other people around you were listening to
Speaker 1: other music by the trumpet. Well, as much as hip hop,
Speaker 1: I was always influenced by like the massive sounds that
Speaker 1: you would hear from bands, big big bands, Latin bands, orchestras,
Speaker 1: especially orchestras used to blow me away as a child,
Speaker 1: and movie sounds acts, you know, like the score. So
Speaker 1: I always loved how multifaceted that was. I didn't really
Speaker 1: hear it as genres. I mean the hip hop albums
Speaker 1: I love, like White Left John's The Carnival and outcast equipment.
Speaker 1: I like, it's so orchestral. Everything that's good. It's so
Speaker 1: full and and and that's the trumpet just felt. I
Speaker 1: just love the way it looked. I love the way
Speaker 1: it sounded. My older brother played the trumpet, and you know,
Speaker 1: as a younger sibling, I wanted to do everything he did.
Speaker 1: My grandfather was a trumpet player, which I was aware
Speaker 1: of but wasn't so you know, hip too. Until I
Speaker 1: started playing. I took to it so quickly and so naturally,
Speaker 1: and for me it was just a gateway to all
Speaker 1: the other instruments I learned, and to like learning about music.
Speaker 1: And now, I mean, the trumpet is just second nature
Speaker 1: for me, and my my exploration is more musical now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you probably hear people say, well, you know, my sister
Speaker 1: played the trumpet. So yes, my sister played the trumpet.
Speaker 1: Have a cousin who was an amazing saxophone player, which
Speaker 1: made me pick up the saxophone to play. He was
Speaker 1: my he was my everything, and his tone was so
Speaker 1: amazing on the saxophone and with the trumpet there is
Speaker 1: a thing with tone as well. But so you don't
Speaker 1: sound like you're just how do I say this respectfully
Speaker 1: like a wounded ductor yes, because everybody that picks up
Speaker 1: the instrument something with tone is either you gut it
Speaker 1: or I don't know if it's perfected, or oh yes,
Speaker 1: it takes time. I mean the trumpet is is a
Speaker 1: very difficult instrument to begin with. It takes a good
Speaker 1: year or two years before you actually get the facility
Speaker 1: to be able to play a lot of things and
Speaker 1: enjoy it. Okay, and yeah, it takes a while, and
Speaker 1: then it takes years to develop the tone that you
Speaker 1: want because the instrument is just reacting to the vibration
Speaker 1: of your lips. It doesn't have a sound built into it.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have the energy or ability to create anything.
Speaker 1: You just you literally put it on your lips while
Speaker 1: they vibrate, and that gets amplified into it makes the
Speaker 1: whole trumpet vibrate into what you're hearing. So it's a
Speaker 1: lot of like playing long notes. I mean I spent
Speaker 1: hours days at a time for decades playing long notes
Speaker 1: as long as I can, as beautifully as possible, with
Speaker 1: beautiful beginnings and endings and the intonation in the middle
Speaker 1: and adding the air taking the air out loud sauce.
Speaker 1: All that kind of thing that way. That way when
Speaker 1: you play, you can be very dynamic and you can
Speaker 1: like use all those elements of your sound to you know,
Speaker 1: inject into the music. Okay, there was a guy in Chicago,
Speaker 1: because in church you have your to me, your basic
Speaker 1: gospel instruments. In church, you got the Oregon drum, tambourine.
Speaker 1: You're gonna get somebody on the tambourine. Then I loved
Speaker 1: this trumpeter. He would come to our church because he
Speaker 1: was like in the band he played at his church
Speaker 1: in Chicago. His name is Rock mcgaha. Okay, that's a
Speaker 1: cool name, cool name, cool musician and trumpeter. And I thought,
Speaker 1: how cool was it to see him just vibing out
Speaker 1: with the other musicians in church. But then there are
Speaker 1: times he would come just as a special guest and
Speaker 1: he would literally not only blow the trumpet, but he
Speaker 1: would blow us away. And I'm saying that to say
Speaker 1: I think of how I never knew i'd meet Whitney
Speaker 1: Houston and I did eventually, or how my aunt and
Speaker 1: cousins were like my Whitney Houston. And then you have
Speaker 1: actual trumpeters that you could see in their forms. So
Speaker 1: you know, Rob mcgaha I mean, you're never gonna meet
Speaker 1: Miles Davis, but when you think of the great and
Speaker 1: when you think of your grandfather played trumpet, You're like, wow.
Speaker 1: But I get to see a rebirth somehow of another
Speaker 1: musician through someone like Rob Maga. So when I knew
Speaker 1: I was going to interview you, like, I wonder if
Speaker 1: you had heard of him, but I know there are
Speaker 1: tons of trumpet players, and I did. I did write
Speaker 1: it down though, so I will be looking for mcgaha.
Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna attempt to spell name, but I
Speaker 1: absolutely love him. And talking about the greats, are you
Speaker 1: often asked about Miles Davis and if he was an
Speaker 1: influence to you at all? I often am. I mean,
Speaker 1: comparisons are good and bad, but I'm often liking to
Speaker 1: Miles Davis. Miles Davis harted me and my dreams for
Speaker 1: like two years, especially during the pandemic. You know, I
Speaker 1: would have these dreams or get these shivers, and Miles
Speaker 1: will be whispering in my ear, like, just play the melody.
Speaker 1: You know in his voice. I can't even imitate him,
Speaker 1: but just play the melody. Just play prettier than everybody else.
Speaker 1: And it stays with me. And that's the thing I
Speaker 1: take for miles the most is to have a sound
Speaker 1: that just cuts through any thing that's going on, but pleasantly,
Speaker 1: Like I like to have a sound that you can
Speaker 1: listen to for hours on end and it doesn't fatigue
Speaker 1: your ears. Yes, and that is very melodic. Whatever I
Speaker 1: do play, it's more about serving the melody and the
Speaker 1: music itself than showing off my ability. And that to
Speaker 1: me is that's very mild. That's to me, that's what
Speaker 1: I take some mind. Yes, yes, it's like you don't
Speaker 1: play everything that you can do, no, never, but in
Speaker 1: the inside of you, you're like, I can really kill this,
Speaker 1: but oh yeah, because we can body it, because I
Speaker 1: feel like but your body and sticking to the melody
Speaker 1: too though, I mean, it's all about a melody. It's
Speaker 1: all about all the music is about a melody. And
Speaker 1: and I want people to leave after hearing me play.
Speaker 1: I want them to leave just unable to get melodies
Speaker 1: out of their mind, even the ones that I when
Speaker 1: I'm improvising, I'm not playing a solo or chord changes.
Speaker 1: I'm playing melodies. I'm building melodies in the moment for
Speaker 1: people to take with them and to put their own
Speaker 1: story too, amazing. So as we're talking about building melody,
Speaker 1: I see on your Instagram that you are I mean
Speaker 1: deep into music theory, which, by the way, it's like
Speaker 1: you have to be I would think to be as
Speaker 1: profound as you are on an instrument, or at least
Speaker 1: you should, because now everybody didn't read music. Some people
Speaker 1: could just pick up an instrument and start playing it.
Speaker 1: But I also find that when you can just play
Speaker 1: by ear, and then when you start reading music or
Speaker 1: get lessons, all of that has to be stripped away apparently,
Speaker 1: and you have to start with the foundation. Like teachers
Speaker 1: don't care that you can riff and do all these
Speaker 1: things on instruments when you don't know the basics and
Speaker 1: the foundation, right, I mean, you know, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of truth and all of that. I think my philosophies
Speaker 1: now are a little I try to demystify everything theoretically
Speaker 1: to the simplest form that it can be. I try
Speaker 1: to demystify a melody and a rhythm or a key
Speaker 1: to the simple list thing it can be, because it's simple.
Speaker 1: It's just math. And well, for me, I didn't honestly
Speaker 1: learn music theory and how to read music well until
Speaker 1: nearly my friend halfway through my freshman year of university,
Speaker 1: and everything before that just relied on my ear, And
Speaker 1: twenty years later, I'm still relying more on my ear
Speaker 1: than what the theoretical explanation of something is. Because again,
Speaker 1: I mean, the word theory itself means a possible idea
Speaker 1: or solution. It doesn't mean the definitive. This is what
Speaker 1: it has to be. So I don't think the artist
Speaker 1: or musician has to have the verbatim knowledge of explaining
Speaker 1: their music theoretically. I think, you know, like you take
Speaker 1: an artist like Prince. They say Prince didn't read or
Speaker 1: write music, but Prince knew what key he was in,
Speaker 1: he knew what kind of cord he was playing. He
Speaker 1: never sounded wrong, so it's like he's still playing music.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he were to study theory with
Speaker 1: that change anything for him. It really just comes to
Speaker 1: help explain what it is you're doing so you can
Speaker 1: explain it to somebody else in your band, or like
Speaker 1: change the key, or you know, find something new. I mean,
Speaker 1: I love the theoretical process, but I don't depend on it.
Speaker 1: I don't depend on it at all as far as
Speaker 1: young people today in jazz. What is your take on
Speaker 1: the impact of jazz today. Are you seeing much of
Speaker 1: an impact that jazz has today or as much as
Speaker 1: it had in years past. That's a difficult question to answer.
Speaker 1: I think what I've realized about what they call jazz
Speaker 1: and those of us that that play that style of
Speaker 1: study music in that manner is really what that means
Speaker 1: today is that we are preparing ourselves as musicians to
Speaker 1: be able to exist and contribute to any musical situation,
Speaker 1: regardless of the genre. And I feel like that's a
Speaker 1: great thing because it prepares you to live in all
Speaker 1: these different worlds. Because so many artists are taking little
Speaker 1: pieces out of out of the world we come from
Speaker 1: and building entire you know, oratorios off of it, and
Speaker 1: entire projects off of a riff for an idea. And
Speaker 1: so it's important to continue the language because that is
Speaker 1: the Black American language, musical language. It is what they
Speaker 1: call again jazz. So it existed everything from a Salange
Speaker 1: album to Drake's new dance album. It's all in there.
Speaker 1: It is everywhere, and again you're talking to someone. I
Speaker 1: love all genres of music besides gospel. I think jazz
Speaker 1: is probably the next for me. And I know you
Speaker 1: did a residency at the Blue Note, New York City. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you just wrapped that up. How was that? It was great?
Speaker 1: We sold out last night. I mean people loved it.
Speaker 1: I mean it felt good. The energy was so great.
Speaker 1: It was great to be It's just right to be there.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's such a legendary club. I went there
Speaker 1: for the first time at twelve years old, just sat
Speaker 1: in the front row, and I remember being like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be on this stage one day, Like this is
Speaker 1: so it was just kind of full circle for that,
Speaker 1: you know, twenty some years later to be there. It
Speaker 1: was like I spelt unreal, like shivers. So at the
Speaker 1: age of twelve, you sat there and said, I'm going
Speaker 1: to be on this stage one day. Yeah. When I
Speaker 1: was eleven, twelve years old, I decided I was going
Speaker 1: to play music for the rest of my life like that.
Speaker 1: That was going to be my focus. Wow, that's so good.
Speaker 1: I always stressed about the power of what we say,
Speaker 1: and how I never you're never too young to speak
Speaker 1: the things that you want, uhh, and the things that
Speaker 1: you want to do. Your dad was a teacher and
Speaker 1: a civil rights activists who worked with Martin Luther King,
Speaker 1: Martin Lee Junior in the sixties. I had that affected
Speaker 1: your music journey at all. I guess in a way
Speaker 1: it affected my musical journey because we were raised to
Speaker 1: be very open minded and tolerant of culture and the
Speaker 1: racing people, and we were taught about race. My father
Speaker 1: was a black man and my mother is mixed, so
Speaker 1: we they had to teach us about race so that
Speaker 1: we could survive and and you know, live and not
Speaker 1: be raised in a in a place of fear. So
Speaker 1: I wasn't raised in a place of fear, but I
Speaker 1: think his contributions to to like communities was very big.
Speaker 1: For both of my parents were very very much My
Speaker 1: mother was John Henry Clark's t a for four years
Speaker 1: in grad school, and so they were very much about
Speaker 1: empowering the community to be educated. So the way I
Speaker 1: was raised wasn't just my mother and father raised me
Speaker 1: and my brother. There were other young people in our
Speaker 1: house from all ages and the high schools and the
Speaker 1: middle schools that my parents worked at joining our family
Speaker 1: all the time to get that experience of an open table,
Speaker 1: of an open mindedness, and they were students of all
Speaker 1: kind of backgrounds and races and cultures. So I think
Speaker 1: that how that translated musically is that it gave me
Speaker 1: a very open mindset. It kind of connected it to
Speaker 1: a community for me. Yeah, open mindset, community and other cultures.
Speaker 1: Which brings me to the next question of your time
Speaker 1: where you lived and played jazz in China about seven
Speaker 1: seven seven years. Yeah, I mean that was crazy, So
Speaker 1: you discovered that that was crazy? I was gonna ask
Speaker 1: you so much did you discover about playing jazz in
Speaker 1: a place where not only were you were in a
Speaker 1: foreign country, but was jazz foreign in that country. What's
Speaker 1: really interesting is that when I got to Shanghai and
Speaker 1: started to play it, I mean I was very young,
Speaker 1: was twenty two, and it was not what I expected
Speaker 1: the audience to be or how I expected it to be,
Speaker 1: because I had only known it through jazz clubs in America,
Speaker 1: which would be mostly old people, very stuffy, very super musicians,
Speaker 1: was super ties and very It's very like just kind
Speaker 1: of old thing, and then jazz was its own separate thing.
Speaker 1: When I got to Shanghai, the first night the club
Speaker 1: was packed. It was people mostly standing up. We played
Speaker 1: one club six nights a week for six months, which
Speaker 1: was that the blues. It was the house of blues
Speaker 1: and jazz there, and it was owned by a TV
Speaker 1: celebrity who actually was the voice of Darth Vader, so
Speaker 1: also it would be Chinese celebrities there, foreign celebrities like
Speaker 1: you know. It was like it was a scene. And
Speaker 1: the first thing I really I learned on the first
Speaker 1: night because our first night was the last night of
Speaker 1: the previous band, which was a blues band, because the
Speaker 1: owner loved blues and they loved jazz, and I realized
Speaker 1: that the concept of jazz in China meant black music
Speaker 1: from Stevie Wonder, the Billie Holliday to Michael Jackson to outcasts.
Speaker 1: That was jazz to them. So I realized very quickly,
Speaker 1: these people expect us to be playing all sorts of
Speaker 1: black music. They're not expecting to just hear what we
Speaker 1: as Americans label jazz. So that that immediately forced me
Speaker 1: to open up and be like, Okay, I need to
Speaker 1: do other things and start implementing other things into my
Speaker 1: vision of this music in order to reach these people deeper.
Speaker 1: And it was a new thing to them, so they
Speaker 1: didn't see all these separations of genres that we have overseas.
Speaker 1: It was just if it was black and the band
Speaker 1: was black, and then they wanted to hear all kinds
Speaker 1: of black music, and that to them was jazz, which
Speaker 1: was really cool for me because it got me out
Speaker 1: of just thinking I had to do things one kind
Speaker 1: of way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do notice, and I know.
Speaker 1: I I'm friends with a lot of your colleagues and
Speaker 1: jazz was able to reconnect with Robert Glass for the
Speaker 1: other day at Hollywood Bowl and some other folks, and
Speaker 1: so I can imagine y'all's journeys, especially incorporating hip hop
Speaker 1: into what's considered jazz music. I mean returning hip hop
Speaker 1: the jazz. Yes, returning hip hop to jazz, which, by
Speaker 1: the way, it's absolutely brilliant. And so the looks on
Speaker 1: people's faces, especially when you're talking about going to Asia
Speaker 1: and to China and to Tokyo and playing the jazz clubs,
Speaker 1: they're like, to my listeners, there's a house of blues.
Speaker 1: Like you said, in China, there's Blue Note. Is that Tokyo.
Speaker 1: There's two Blue Notes in China now, one in Beijing
Speaker 1: and one in Shanghai, and there's two in Japan. There's
Speaker 1: one in Tokyo, Nagoya. Yeah, they're they're popping up up
Speaker 1: because we know the Blue Note, the legendary Blue Note
Speaker 1: in New York City. But then is Yo, she's in
Speaker 1: Blue Note the same in Oakland? Or is that different?
Speaker 1: They're different? Okay, I didn't know if one was just
Speaker 1: like Yo, She's Blue Note or just Blue Note. But
Speaker 1: Yo know there's also a Blue Note in Milano, which
Speaker 1: is one of my favorites. And there's one in Hawaii,
Speaker 1: there's one in Brazil. I've never been to the one
Speaker 1: in South but yeah, we need to go. Yo'll be there,
Speaker 1: You'll be there, And I'm just letting my listeners know, like,
Speaker 1: please please get into the Blue Notes. And Sophotheo to
Speaker 1: have had a few nights residency at the Blue Note
Speaker 1: is absolutely major. I mean the jazz greats and legends
Speaker 1: play at the Blue Note. You have an album, your seventh.
Speaker 1: You don't look like you about past seventeen. I know
Speaker 1: I'm well past seventeen. Talking about his seventh studio album.
Speaker 1: It is called Love Quantum. That's all about different kinds
Speaker 1: of love. Yes, explain that about the different kinds of
Speaker 1: love and how it's played in your album. Well, I
Speaker 1: realized while making the previous album before I Love Kantum.
Speaker 1: I realized when I was searching, and I did a
Speaker 1: lot of soul searching during the pandemic, as most people,
Speaker 1: I hope it, and I found that like, I had
Speaker 1: this lack of self love for myself, that I was
Speaker 1: always so focused on outwardly pleasing people, outwardly pleasing situations,
Speaker 1: outwardly making things work as we're raised to do function
Speaker 1: in society. And I realized that in my relationships, friendships
Speaker 1: and romantic relationships, I was looking for this love that
Speaker 1: I could have been giving myself the whole time. And
Speaker 1: so I learned to love myself on a quantum level,
Speaker 1: which is the smallest, most smallest amount of something you
Speaker 1: can get to. If you break down the atom on
Speaker 1: a quantum level, you get to like what they call
Speaker 1: a cork, etcetera, etcetera. So I found that, like, I
Speaker 1: can only outwardly love and I can only receive love
Speaker 1: on the level that I'm able to generate my own
Speaker 1: self love. So this was the inspiration for the album.
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, let's look at what I understand
Speaker 1: about love now, Like I can love somebody because look
Speaker 1: at how I love myself, look at how I take
Speaker 1: care of myself, look at how I talk to myself
Speaker 1: in my own mind, Like do you acknowledge yourself every day?
Speaker 1: Do you look in the mirror and tell yourself you're
Speaker 1: beautiful and that you love what you're doing and love
Speaker 1: what you're creating, and that you believe in yourself? Like,
Speaker 1: things like that haven't empowered me to be able to
Speaker 1: then share that excess love to other people and not
Speaker 1: expect or need anything in return from them. Therefore, whatever
Speaker 1: I would receive from them would be extra. Come on, somebody.
Speaker 1: So do you find yourself attracting better relationships? Of course? Absolutely, absolutely,
Speaker 1: and I mean naturally As a performer entertainer, people think
Speaker 1: they are attracted to us because they're attracted to your
Speaker 1: persona of you. But I find it very easy now
Speaker 1: to tell what level somebody is on with themselves in
Speaker 1: their own love with a simple conversation or interaction. And
Speaker 1: when you're beaming love and light out into the universe,
Speaker 1: that will bounce back to you. Wow. So do you
Speaker 1: think that you're playing is different before you had this
Speaker 1: revelation to how you right now? I think there were
Speaker 1: some parts of myself and my playing that I knew
Speaker 1: were there but didn't acknowledge, And that was I knew
Speaker 1: that everything I had to play had to come from
Speaker 1: a place of honesty deep within myself, an expression. And
Speaker 1: so when I tapped in the loving myself, I started to,
Speaker 1: you know, before I would play, tell myself, Hey, whatever
Speaker 1: you think it is, you're not good enough at plane,
Speaker 1: stop telling yourself that it's enough. You're here, you have
Speaker 1: the blue note, it's enough. It's so doubt obviously these
Speaker 1: people want what you have, So just let it out.
Speaker 1: And that got me out of my head of even
Speaker 1: thinking so much about what I'm about to play or
Speaker 1: about to do or how I think I have to
Speaker 1: do it, and simply just creating and letting it out.
Speaker 1: That's so good. They'd be like THEO. Your notes are
Speaker 1: sounding brighter and they're fill with love and life, you know.
Speaker 1: And I was just saying, if I want to be
Speaker 1: sitting in the audience. But because he loved himself now, y'all,
Speaker 1: he wasn't loving himself like he should. He knows he
Speaker 1: needs to love himself exactly and charging each and every
Speaker 1: note and line and interaction with that love. Come on,
Speaker 1: come on, okay, Okay. So now I'm like, okay, what's
Speaker 1: the next album title? But we got to get through
Speaker 1: this album because it includes collaborations with some of my favorites,
Speaker 1: Why Cleft, Jean Jamil, and Jill Scott. Yes, she was
Speaker 1: on my podcast some months ago, but I love that
Speaker 1: in two be We Jill explores love and divine femininity.
Speaker 1: How is it to work with Jill? Was that your
Speaker 1: first time? That was my first time working with her?
Speaker 1: We became friends. One day she had asked somebody in
Speaker 1: her band, a trumpet player, far Nell Newton. She had
Speaker 1: asked him, you know, who are some new like people
Speaker 1: I can listen to? And he turned her on to
Speaker 1: an album that I had done in called Escape Velocity,
Speaker 1: and then she tweeted it. I woke up one day
Speaker 1: and she had tweeted my album and she had said,
Speaker 1: this is the only thing that puts my son to sleep.
Speaker 1: So years later we connected. During the pandemic again, everybody
Speaker 1: was able to slow down and we started d m
Speaker 1: NG and she started telling me how much she actually
Speaker 1: loved my music. And at first I thought, Okay, she's
Speaker 1: being cooled. She liked a song or something. But when
Speaker 1: I came to finally work with her. After like months
Speaker 1: of us talking back and forth and things like that,
Speaker 1: I came to realize that her and her family were
Speaker 1: like fans. You would go to her home and she
Speaker 1: would be listening to my albums like it's on their
Speaker 1: regular rotation, and that blew my my spirit. While I
Speaker 1: was like, wow, somebody that I have been influenced by
Speaker 1: my entire life, Like you know how old head is
Speaker 1: like an old head like my father. I gave him
Speaker 1: just Scott's first CD, the Words and Sounds Volume one
Speaker 1: I think it was, and he, you know, CD players
Speaker 1: were new for that generation. So in the car we
Speaker 1: got on the CD player and if you went on
Speaker 1: a three hour road trip with him, you listen to
Speaker 1: that c D three times. What's that? Was it? He
Speaker 1: played the deal Scott out and and so like her
Speaker 1: down is just embedded in me and embedded into my
Speaker 1: musical DNA even you know, before I even played trumpet,
Speaker 1: it was like that. So I had written something. In
Speaker 1: the entire time I wrote it and recorded it and
Speaker 1: produced it, I knew it was for her. So when
Speaker 1: I finally sent it to her, to be like, this
Speaker 1: is just an idea I have let me know how
Speaker 1: it makes you how it feels. She was like, we
Speaker 1: need to talk on the phone, and then she's like,
Speaker 1: this is beautiful. Nobody ever sends me something so cinematic
Speaker 1: and so complete. I'm gonna write to this and when
Speaker 1: I'm ready, I'm gonna call you to come to me
Speaker 1: and we'll record it together. I love this story. Like
Speaker 1: to hear that she is a supporter of yours, right,
Speaker 1: but you also go way back in supporting this amazing
Speaker 1: black woman just the way we built such a report
Speaker 1: before we ever recorded, we would just talk on the
Speaker 1: phone like human beings and talk about love and talk
Speaker 1: about light and talk about our energies and talk about
Speaker 1: the industry from a creative standpoint and the exchanges and
Speaker 1: the inspirations. And it still blows my mind to getting
Speaker 1: cough from just Scott just being like, hey, Sen and
Speaker 1: you love I had this great idea about this musical concept.
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on that? And it's like wow,
Speaker 1: Like just Scott's just conversing with me about creativity, like
Speaker 1: it's it's so inspiring and so beautiful, and you really
Speaker 1: hear that in the track. It's really it's about our
Speaker 1: interaction in that way. Is about our energy together, and
Speaker 1: it's it's totally kindred. It's not contrived in anyway. It's beautiful.
Speaker 1: One day, Just Scott looked at me. It's like she
Speaker 1: pierced my soul one day and she said, I don't know.
Speaker 1: We were walking to our seats or something. I feel
Speaker 1: like it was the Grammys, and she literally like turned
Speaker 1: around and looked at me and she said, are you
Speaker 1: okay that time? I'm a fish out of water to
Speaker 1: all this, And I was like, oh my god, she
Speaker 1: sees me, Oh my gosh, let me. It made me
Speaker 1: tell that story because when you were talking about during
Speaker 1: the pandemic, how y'all were having conversations, you were talking
Speaker 1: about love, you were talking about energies, and she felt
Speaker 1: mine from behind and turned around and was like, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my gosh. So I just always loved
Speaker 1: that story about her. It was like she was the
Speaker 1: person saying it's gonna be okay, to be okay. Did
Speaker 1: you find that as well? You find that with other
Speaker 1: peers period in music? I do. I mean with Jill
Speaker 1: Scott specifically. She's one of the most powerful light and
Speaker 1: love field human beings I've ever interacted with and I've
Speaker 1: known rumple cheese and gurus when I lived in China,
Speaker 1: like Tibetan gurus and things like that, and she she
Speaker 1: had that same kind of energy, like around her, you
Speaker 1: can only be yourself because if you don't, she's gonna
Speaker 1: see right through it. And I never, at any point
Speaker 1: around her felt like I had to be anything other
Speaker 1: than me, like true truthly me, I didn't feel like
Speaker 1: I was sitting in front of the Superstar. I felt
Speaker 1: like I was sitting in front of like a beam
Speaker 1: of light that was just there. And it's like, I
Speaker 1: see how she interacts with other people, and it's very
Speaker 1: she sees you, and that's your opportunity to be seen
Speaker 1: and to see her back. And she allowed me to
Speaker 1: see her back as well. So I saw this human
Speaker 1: being in front of me that was like a kindred spirit.
Speaker 1: I didn't see Jill Scott the Superstar, yeah and so
Speaker 1: and so. Of course before that, that's what I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, Okay, what is this gonna be? Like?
Speaker 1: What is it? But then when we start talking, I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: this she's human. She's tried. My mom's in the kitchen.
Speaker 1: She want to say hi to my mom. She's like,
Speaker 1: put your mom on the phone, let me say hi.
Speaker 1: Or she called me randomly. One time while I was
Speaker 1: giving a student a trumpet lesson and it came up
Speaker 1: Jill Scout on the phone. He was like, are you're
Speaker 1: gonna answer that? I was like, yeah, probably should and
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm in a lesson, said oh, let
Speaker 1: me talk to him. That's so exactly. After the lesson,
Speaker 1: he's like, yo, okay, I'm inspired. Especially, he's like, y'all
Speaker 1: are so cool. I was like, man, she was just
Speaker 1: calling me to check on me, like how am I doing?
Speaker 1: And it's like that kind of beautiful. It's authentic, it's
Speaker 1: not creative, and it's just It's similar with with White
Speaker 1: Leg John when he discovered my music through a friend
Speaker 1: of his who was a mutual friend that worked at
Speaker 1: a label or something. They were like, man, you should
Speaker 1: check this dude out. And a few days later he's
Speaker 1: calling me and and he's like, I've been looking for you.
Speaker 1: I found you. And I'm like, I'm like, yo, I've
Speaker 1: been listening to the Carnivals since I was twelve. Like
Speaker 1: to me, that's a Pinnacle hip hop record. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: just you mentioned that earlier in the interview and it's
Speaker 1: just I'm on the phone with him and I'm just
Speaker 1: sitting here and I'm like, I can't believe it. First
Speaker 1: of all, just hearing his voice and hearing Jill Scott's
Speaker 1: voice on the phone, it's like so crazy because it's
Speaker 1: so ingrained in you from all the music that you've heard.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, this is this is crazy. Like I've
Speaker 1: positioned myself in a way that where these legends are
Speaker 1: coming to me and wanting to interact with the musically
Speaker 1: because they're like, no, we recognize what this is, we
Speaker 1: draw from this. You're a source. We want you involved
Speaker 1: in this, like welcome to the tribe. Why Cless like,
Speaker 1: welcome to the tribe. Me and Just Scott called each
Speaker 1: other tribe Like it's really beautiful and really inspirational, because,
Speaker 1: as you know, in your career, you can have a
Speaker 1: lot of doors closed and a lot of people say no,
Speaker 1: and a lot of times you you can tell that
Speaker 1: it's there's no deep connection or there's no deep interest
Speaker 1: in what you're doing. And then to turnaround and have
Speaker 1: people as prolific as Just Scott and Why Clefs be
Speaker 1: like yes, like we just let's just talk send me
Speaker 1: records like, let's create, let's build. It's like, yo, I
Speaker 1: literally send White Clefs ideas and he sends ideas back.
Speaker 1: Sometimes they related sometimes or now he's like, yo, just
Speaker 1: young miles, check this out. I'm listening to this. What
Speaker 1: do you think about this? I'm like, this is a vibe.
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard this? And the jealous the same way.
Speaker 1: So it's so beautiful and it's so like, I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm a part of this tribe now and it's superted.
Speaker 1: Just but imagine in the times of rejection, especially in
Speaker 1: this industry, we get a lot of rejection. But imagine
Speaker 1: that in those times of rejection, had you put your
Speaker 1: trumpet down, you wouldn't have the stories to tell and
Speaker 1: the timing of when someone is supposed to take you
Speaker 1: under their wings, adopt you, or but now, I don't
Speaker 1: want us to be in our craft looking for validation
Speaker 1: from people. But it feels good, like you said, when
Speaker 1: the people that you've listened to who have set your
Speaker 1: sound take you under your wing and you get to
Speaker 1: call them friend. So yeah, that's exciting. I'm excited for you.
Speaker 1: I've had a lot of artists come to me to
Speaker 1: want to extract what I'm doing and added to their
Speaker 1: music and things like that. And I've never felt that
Speaker 1: way with Cliff and just got it the more felt
Speaker 1: like they wanted to create a bond creatively and musically,
Speaker 1: and that is super inspiration. Absolutely, absolutely y'all are listening to.
Speaker 1: Like you said, we talked about the rejection and things
Speaker 1: that happen are people that, just like you said, want
Speaker 1: to take and not so back into you. And so
Speaker 1: I'm so happy that you found at least two people,
Speaker 1: namingly Wye Less and Jill, that you can have that
Speaker 1: type of relationship with the foundation of checking in his
Speaker 1: mental health. Right. Yes, you, I'm great. I am light,
Speaker 1: I am grateful, I am thankful, and I find the
Speaker 1: more that I stay in that energy, the more light
Speaker 1: I feel I'm filled with and emitting. And these things
Speaker 1: sound simple, but being positive, being grateful for what has
Speaker 1: and has not yet happened, or what you desire to happen.
Speaker 1: Making sure that I'm injecting myself with the love that
Speaker 1: I require instead of looking forward externally. All keep me
Speaker 1: in a way moving forward and saying mentally, yeah, just
Speaker 1: crazy out here, this is crazy in these streets. I'm
Speaker 1: sure I've got some young musicians listening, and y'all feel
Speaker 1: I'm telling you. He lit up, But he also told
Speaker 1: the story of a young man whom he was giving
Speaker 1: trumpet lessons to and how that young man was able
Speaker 1: to get some inspiration not only from THEO, but from
Speaker 1: Jill Scott. What words of inspiration do you have for
Speaker 1: some young musicians that are listening right now? Uh, first,
Speaker 1: let me say thank you for asking me. How I'm doing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I hope you are doing well? Also, are you
Speaker 1: I am doing well. I'm doing well when I tell you,
Speaker 1: it's a daily practice. Even talking about the word positive
Speaker 1: and how making sure that you're feeling your feelings. You know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't make you less positive if you say, man,
Speaker 1: today is today and you know, or it's it's kind
Speaker 1: of a difficult day, you know. And so I am
Speaker 1: allowing myself that doesn't mean I've fallen into a depression
Speaker 1: or anything like that, because that's been my journey. I've
Speaker 1: dealt with depression for a number of years. But when
Speaker 1: I tell you it's been a joy. Life has been
Speaker 1: I would say, is a lot going on in a world,
Speaker 1: but I try to maintain my peace as much as
Speaker 1: I can be oh so thanks asking me. No, of course,
Speaker 1: to expand on that with speaking to a younger musician,
Speaker 1: because I think this is important. I think it's very
Speaker 1: important to keep a strong mind and to keep a
Speaker 1: strong vision for yourself and to not let anyone or
Speaker 1: anything dissuade you from that strong mind, and to make
Speaker 1: sure that you're building your mind as much as your talent.
Speaker 1: Part of that is also being patient, be patient for
Speaker 1: the things that will come to you. You don't need
Speaker 1: to chase everything. You simply need to create the right
Speaker 1: conditions for these things to enter into your life. And
Speaker 1: you know, and study your craft, whatever it may be,
Speaker 1: and whatever you're choosing to focus on, study it. That
Speaker 1: doesn't mean just for an example, you're gonna be a
Speaker 1: gospel singer, you need to understand period harmony. No, you
Speaker 1: just make sure you know your music. Do you make
Speaker 1: sure you know your craft? You know, I'm not interested
Speaker 1: in the dentist knowing how my footworks. I just want
Speaker 1: to make sure he knows what to do with my team.
Speaker 1: So it's very important to stay focused and to just
Speaker 1: take every note as a level up so that you're
Speaker 1: ready for the Yes, you create the conditions to cultivate
Speaker 1: what it is you desire, and you do that with
Speaker 1: hard work and focus and make sure you love yourself.
Speaker 1: And you said some things that can be consistency, learning
Speaker 1: your craft. It shouldn't be boring. But let me admit
Speaker 1: sometimes being consistent is boring. Yeah, I agree, doing the
Speaker 1: same thing, same thing, same thing. But you do get
Speaker 1: ults from consistency more than procrastination. Ever, will even do
Speaker 1: it afraid doing get unsure. I can say this, This
Speaker 1: is more of a technical answer. You can practice seven
Speaker 1: hours a day incorrectly and get nowhere. But you can
Speaker 1: focus for ten minutes on one thing ten minutes, just
Speaker 1: like meditating. You can practice on one key, one scale,
Speaker 1: one melody of a song for ten minutes and do wonders.
Speaker 1: So if I have to learn a new song or
Speaker 1: memorize the melody before show, I know that I can
Speaker 1: just focus for fifteen minutes on that melody and not
Speaker 1: think about all this other stuff going on, not thinking
Speaker 1: about the core changes, and I think about the rhythm,
Speaker 1: I think about the tempo, and not think about the band.
Speaker 1: Just be like, do I know this melody so that
Speaker 1: I can go on the stage and just let that out,
Speaker 1: so that ten minutes of super focused practice. You know,
Speaker 1: if you're playing the trumpet, like is your air moving correctly?
Speaker 1: Are your lips in the right position? Are your fingers
Speaker 1: correctly on the button? Doing that for ten minutes is
Speaker 1: better than hacking away for hour. Is trying to make
Speaker 1: something sound, and that applies to everything in life, you know,
Speaker 1: sail us as they say, he told me. You listen, y'all,
Speaker 1: I'm excited Apple Music did a cool thing on you.
Speaker 1: Vio Croker influences. I have to read this. It says
Speaker 1: Theo Croker's take on jazz is so excitingly original that
Speaker 1: it's no surprise the New York based trumpeters been impacted
Speaker 1: by every corner of modern music. AfroB eighties boogie, nineties
Speaker 1: hip hop, UK down Temple, the l A beat scene,
Speaker 1: classic funk, fusion, and electro. It's all in there, and
Speaker 1: that doesn't even touch on the traditional jazz that fuels
Speaker 1: his creativity. Let's go tell you it goes on. It
Speaker 1: names some of my favorite Tony Williams Fella Flying Lotus
Speaker 1: roy As of cour Us, I mean so many, so y'all,
Speaker 1: not only get into his album, which I'm so excited
Speaker 1: about it love quantum yes and check out this playlist though.
Speaker 1: I love getting into the minds of what a great musician,
Speaker 1: what his influences are. And thank you so much for
Speaker 1: checking in. Thank you so much for having me Michelle
Speaker 1: allowed me to check in. Man, listen, you are welcome
Speaker 1: any time when you come on one time, you welcome
Speaker 1: to come in and talk about anything. We can talk
Speaker 1: about theory again, we can talk about energy again, self love,
Speaker 1: because to hear a black man talk about self love,
Speaker 1: it's beautiful. It's important. It's important for us to learn
Speaker 1: to fill in the gaps that our elders were not
Speaker 1: able to. Things are crazy in the world today, no doubt,
Speaker 1: but it's only gotten less crazy for us, and it's
Speaker 1: only opened up more opportunity for us to learn how
Speaker 1: to take care of ourselves and share with one another.
Speaker 1: And you know, that's how you really build a strong community.
Speaker 1: So we got to do that absolutely. Thanks again thea
Speaker 1: We'll talk again soon. Thank you, Michelle. Wow, y'all, wasn't
Speaker 1: that a brilliant, just beautiful, pure conversation. I hope y'all
Speaker 1: have been enjoying the podcast. I cannot continue to do
Speaker 1: what I do weekly without y'all's love and support. How
Speaker 1: y'all have been subscribing listen, I'm excited about how much
Speaker 1: it has been growing again. Please check out Love Quantum.
Speaker 1: He's on Instagram simply at theo Croker. Just a beautiful
Speaker 1: soul and I just love how he lit up talking
Speaker 1: about the one and only Jill Scott timu In. I
Speaker 1: know that is your girl. She's my girl too, Alright.
Speaker 1: I hope y'all are having an amazing, amazing day. Just
Speaker 1: know that you're loved and listen. There's nothing you can
Speaker 1: do about it. What you're going do about me? Loving you? Alright? Alright?
Speaker 1: Take care. Checking In with Michelle Williams is a production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and The Black Effect. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.