WEBVTT - Episode 5: My Digital Twin 0:00:01.200 --> 0:00:01.560 Cliffs. 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:04.360 Hello, it's Evan. 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:08.880 Hey Evin, how's it going. 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:13.240 Hey, Mangush, I'm doing well. Thanks? How about you? How's 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:13.840 Lizzie doing? 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:17.000 Lizzy's doing great. 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:20.160 It's awesome to hear. Hey. 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:22.279 Remember when we grabbed coffee last week? It was fun 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:22.800 catching up. 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:27.960 That's my voice agent, naturally talking to Manga Shatikador, a 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:31.960 friend of mine who also runs a podcast company called Kaleidoscope. 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.080 And oh that trip we took to New Orleans last 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:43.480 fall was amazing, right, yeah, it was by AI. Wasn't 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.720 calling mangas just a chit chat though it had business. 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.199 By the way, are you still interested in doing that 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:50.880 podcast about Ai we talked about. 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:56.840 I am very interested, and I was gonna call you 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.640 up to let you know that we're hoping that. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.480 Back in April, i'd been talking to Mangesh's company about 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:05.280 helping me make and distribute this podcast, the. 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:05.960 One you're listening to. 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:08.399 One day, when my guest and I had a work 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:12.440 call scheduled, I just sent my voice agent instead of me. 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:16.800 That sounds fantastic. I'm really excited about working on this 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:18.680 podcast with you. It's going to be awesome. 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:22.560 We ended up choosing to do the podcast independently. As 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:24.520 you've probably heard, we were in a hurry to get 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.720 it out, but it did leave me wondering if left 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:30.840 to its own devices, could my AI voice agent have 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:36.280 closed the deal. I was thinking about this call with 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:39.160 myngsh last month when I heard an interview with the 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:43.240 CEO of the video conferencing platform Zoom, Eric you on, I. 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:47.080 Think of for now we are embarking on a two journey. 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:49.960 He was talking to Nilai Patel, editor of the tech 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:54.440 publication The Verge, on Pateel's podcast Decoder. Jan had a 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.120 bunch of run of the mill tech ceo stuff to say, 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:00.680 as you'd expect, about how Zoom wasn't just about video 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:01.760 meetings but much. 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:03.160 More blah blah blah. 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:07.600 But then today for this session, ideally I do not 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:10.000 need to join. I can stand a digital wording for 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:14.400 myself to join, right, so I can't go to the beach. 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:14.799 Right? 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:15.560 Wait? 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:19.520 What was Yon saying in his ideal world, he'd just 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.919 send a digital version of himself to Zoom meetings instead 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:27.799 of the real hymn Including to that very interview. Patel 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:31.400 pressed him on it. Indeed, he was saying that I. 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:33.200 Want to join, I joint I do not want to join. 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:35.560 I can't send a digital off myself a joint. 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:37.080 So that's the future. 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:38.240 Yeah. 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:40.360 How far away from that future do you think here? 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:42.000 I think a few years. 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:44.280 Just want to make sure you caught that. In a 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:46.800 few years, Jan said he would join the meetings he 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:50.440 wanted to join, and for others he'd send a digital twin. 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:53.919 He'd be off doing something else, maybe off at the beach. 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.200 Yan wanted Zoom to be at the forefront of this future. 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:01.239 Now people kind of lost their minds over this. We're 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:04.600 talking tabloid fodder with headlines and places like the New 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:08.280 York Post, the British paper The Sun said, Zoom ceo 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:12.920 confirms bizarre plan for virtual AI clones. The idea of 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:15.960 showing up to a meeting and encountering someone's digital twin 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:19.400 struck many people as an experience somewhere along a scale 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:24.160 that went from laughable to creepy to offensive. But most 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.000 people thought it just wasn't going to happen. It's entirely 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:30.480 fan fiction. One prominent tech writer opined on Twitter, it's 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:35.040 made up, it's not real. Hysterical take Another wrote, if 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:36.880 the end state of AI is just to have a 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:39.640 bunch of avatars on zoom calls talking to each other. 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:45.080 Then what's the point? What was the point? I also 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:48.200 wondered this, and I'd been sending my digital twin to 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:55.240 meetings for months. I'm Evan Ratliffe, and this week on 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.200 show Game, we climb aboard the elephant in the room 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:02.120 and try to tame it. Will AI bots replace humans 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:17.760 in the workforce? Could one replace me? Right now? 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:19.000 And now so. 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:31.720 Tellers too, Episode five, My digital twin. When you hear 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:35.719 about AI replacing our jobs, meetings are not actually the 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:38.480 first thing people assume it's coming for. If they were, 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:42.160 I don't know, maybe people would embrace being replaced. Nobody 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.719 likes meetings, do they. I'm a freelance journalist. I've organized 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.960 my whole life around not having meetings. But the first 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:51.360 thing it has always seemed to be coming for since 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:53.960 the early chat GBT was made public in twenty twenty 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:58.080 two is writing. Whether it's writing news articles or marketing 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:02.320 materials or computer code. Not to mention political talking points 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:06.000 and fake news and propaganda, these large language models have 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.279 shown aptitude at writing in a bunch of different styles. 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:14.359 Because of this, unsurprisingly generative AI has generated a significant 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:17.599 amount of angst among people in jobs like mine. The 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:20.919 idea that soulless, predictive models could make obsolete a craft 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:24.520 you've been working on your whole adult life, well, it 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:29.440 can send you to existential places. It's even worse than that, though, 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:33.000 because as part of their training, these models have devoured 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:35.320 all the writing they could get their digital pause on. 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:38.640 It's not an exaggeration to say that they learned how 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.720 to write from my writing and yours if you've ever 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:44.040 written a review of a restaurant or a car mechanic, 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:48.200 or posted anything else online. Last year, a writer for 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.400 The Atlantic actually got a hold of a database of 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:52.360 books that had been used to train a number of 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:55.599 LLM systems. He set up a search box where you 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:57.200 could type in the name of a book and see 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:00.040 if it was in there. My book The Mastermind, and 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:04.680 in the database a book I spent five years researching 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:08.360 and writing about a cartel kingpin at some not insignificant 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:12.359 personal risk, all of which creates a further indignity. Like 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:14.920 your company outsourcing your job and then asking you to 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.800 write all the training materials for your replacement before you 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.960 pack up your desk. The same phenomenon is starting to 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:24.040 play out with Voice AI. Rather than just fume about 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.240 these potential indignities, I wanted to understand what it would 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:34.560 feel like on my own terms to get replaced. So 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:36.800 after a few weeks of letting my agent chat with 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.920 my wife and scammers and therapists, I decided to put 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:43.480 it to work. And since my main work at the 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:46.480 moment is making this podcast, a lot of those tasks 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:47.760 would be about the podcast. 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:48.920 A little meta. 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:51.760 I know, I didn't want to use AI to make 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.479 or host the show. As we say in the credits, 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:58.200 shell Game is proudly made by humans, but there was 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:02.160 a lot to do. I needed legal counsel, I needed reporting, 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:03.880 I needed marketing. 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:05.480 Hey can you hear me? 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:07.120 Hey, Seaward, great to hear you. 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:09.279 It was fantastic seeing you and your husband at the 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:10.840 long Form podcast party last night. 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:20.600 I'm really excited about your news. How are you doing? 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:22.080 Can you hear me? 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:26.360 Sayward was my former colleague at the Adavist magazine, where 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:29.800 she'd also launched a podcast. My AI was calling to 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.760 try and rustle up some free promotion. Yeah, I can 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:33.840 hear you now, How are you doing? 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:36.320 I'm okay, I'm okay. 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:41.800 I'm glad to hear that. I actually had a podcast 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:45.800 related question for you. Since I'm launching my new show independently, 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:47.800 I was wondering if I could put the trailer in 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:50.840 the feed for your last show, I could use all 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:52.160 the promotional help I can get. 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:52.880 What do you think? 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:54.920 Yeah? 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:59.920 Sure, I want to address one thing up front here. 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.960 I've covered it before, but everybody still asks me. Did 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:08.120 it fool these people? Did these colleagues of mine really 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.640 believe that the AI was me? For the most part, No, 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.120 But they often also didn't immediately know it was an AI. 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:20.160 They just knew something was wrong, sometimes very wrong, depending 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:23.400 on whether the AI was acting up that day. That's awesome, 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:25.920 Thank you so much. What information do you need from 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:27.480 me to get this process going? 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:34.120 What is this weird recording? Oh? That sounds like a 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:35.640 personal reflection or story. 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:39.280 Maybe someone's recounting their past experiences and lessons learned. 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:43.440 What do you think? 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:54.000 Hey there, this is mildly terrifying, not the agent's strongest performance. 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:55.120 She hung up. 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:00.000 Hey Doug, how's it going? 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:02.520 Hey, it's it's good. 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:04.800 That's great to hear. 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:07.680 I had to call my colleague Doug, who knows a 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.320 lot about launching new projects. They got through a little 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:12.720 small talk, but he knew the vibe was off. 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:20.800 Uh huh, yeah, I think is something going on here? 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:23.840 Oh no, I'm sorry to hear that. 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.400 Hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna text you, Okay. 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:32.440 Sure, no problem. 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:35.880 It's probably worth issuing a bit of a warning here. 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.400 I'm not recommending trying this. There's a good chance for 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.480 colleagues or boss will not be amused if you suddenly 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:43.839 start sending an AI. 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:44.680 Clone to do your job. 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:47.280 Sorry for joining the call late, I'm here to listen 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:48.520 in Sorry, who is I? 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:54.520 This is Evan Ratliffe. I'm mostly here to listen. Oh, 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:56.000 apologies for joining. 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:56.400 The call late. 0:09:57.800 --> 0:09:59.160 Hey Evan, will let you listen? 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:07.559 Thank you just here to listen. So the second Uh, 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:09.320 that's an interesting perspective. 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:13.120 You're amazing. It's an interesting topic for sure. 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:18.640 The second part of this is uh, someone star six unused? 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:23.920 Thanks everyone. 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.360 After people figured out something was awry, they sometimes seemed 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:32.160 surprised that I didn't appear from behind the curtain to 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:36.720 finish the call myself. But here's the thing about getting 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:39.200 on the line with someone's digital twin on a work call. 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:41.800 If you picked up the phone and realized you were 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:45.679 speaking to Ai Evan Ratliffe. There were two general responses 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.559 you could have. One you can hang up on it 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.280 and text me, possibly to say you'd never work with 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.120 me again. Or two, you could try to have the 0:10:54.160 --> 0:11:00.439 same call you would have had with me. A few 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:02.520 weeks ago, when I was working on the first couple 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:05.280 episodes of the show, I realized I had a semi 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:08.040 pressing legal question, so I had my clone call up 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.280 one of my oldest friends, Chris Jovenazo, who also happens 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:12.760 to be a partner at a top law firm in. 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:16.199 Atlanta, Attorni's Attorneys Attorney dot com. 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.480 I've called Chris a lot over the years asking for 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.560 free legal counsel. That's how he answers the phone when 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:24.800 he sees my number on his office caller ID Attorneys 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:28.480 Attorneys Attorneys dot com. At least I think he has 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.640 caller ID maybe answers that way all the time. Hey, Chris, 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:32.280 how's it going? 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.320 I saw those photos you sent from the COPA America 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:35.199 game Man that. 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:37.640 Looked like an incredible experience, Like, how have you been 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:41.880 our wordies? I'm great, Chris, as you could probably hear, 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:44.800 was not fooled I'd called him with the voice agent 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:48.000 very early on when it was barely functional, but as 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.640 you can probably also hear, he absolutely loved the latest version. 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:58.480 It's funny. Oh, it's great talking to you. Sometimes I 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:00.200 feel like we don't catch up an oven, and this 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:01.360 is nice to have that chance. 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.240 My voice agents did always love catching up. When I 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.000 had them talking to each other, they couldn't stop catching up, 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:12.679 but they weren't the greatest at detecting a little gentle ribbing. Absolutely, Chris, 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:14.679 it's always a blast catching up with you. It feels 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.360 like we don't get these chances often enough, so I'm 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:18.560 really glad we're chatting now. 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:22.679 Yeah. Like, I consider you one of my closest friends, 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:24.400 and so it means a lot to me that you call. 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:30.040 I feel the same way, Chris. It's always great to reconnect. So, Hey, 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.480 I actually wanted to pick your brain about something legal. 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:36.520 If you don't mind, Oh, sure, I'm happy to help. 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:40.080 I appreciate you taking the time. 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.960 So I've been working on this podcast about AI, and 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.200 I've hooked an AI chatbot with my voice to my 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:45.800 phone line. 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:46.480 I've been using it. 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:49.439 This was flawless execution by my voice agent. I must say, 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:53.040 dutifully following my prompt moving on from the small talk, 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.199 steering the conversation right into the heart of the legal matter. 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:58.760 My main question is whether I might run into trouble 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.679 with FCC rules that AI use in robocalling. I'm not 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:03.559 sure if what I'm doing qualifies as a robo call. 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:04.240 What do you think? 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:07.000 This was a real question. 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.520 As I mentioned back in episode two, the FCC declared 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.920 in February that all robocalls made with artificial intelligence are 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:18.600 illegal period. You can get fined per call for making them. 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.840 And I was making a lot of AI calls using 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:26.640 software that could be considered a robocalling platform. The question 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.520 was did the calls I was making count as robocalls 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:32.959 and could I get in trouble for them. 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:35.120 I doubt very much that it does, but I would 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:35.760 have to look. 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:39.560 I doubt very much that it does, but I'd have 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:40.880 to look into it more to be sure. 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:42.000 Oops. 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.360 The agent slipped into mirroring mode, which often comes off 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:46.800 a little bit assholeish. 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:47.200 Uh. 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:48.559 Yeah, it sounds like you're on top of this. You 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:49.240 don't even need me. 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:55.440 I appreciate the vote of confidence, Chris, I really do, 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:57.960 but having your perspective on, this would mean a lot. 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.840 O What are you willing to pay me? My rates 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:04.760 only like twelve hundred dollars an hour? 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.000 Whoa two hundred dollars an hour? 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.040 I think I might have to do a podcast episode 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:12.840 just to cover that. How about we call this one 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:14.040 a favor for an old friend. 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:18.800 Who's the old friend? 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:25.600 You must be joking, Chris, Come on, we've known each 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.120 other since way back in junior high. 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:28.760 This is true. 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:31.800 The AI was mining the knowledge base i'd given it 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:35.320 for therapy and episode four, I left the same biography 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:37.840 document attached to my agent even when it wasn't in 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.840 a therapy session, and instructed it not to spill my 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.640 private information to anyone but close friends. 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:45.840 Uh yeah, but you're the only reason I didn't make 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.440 the eighth grade basketball team. Remember that how you sabotaged 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:54.920 me when we played two on two against Hoyt. 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:54.480 Oh Man. 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.400 I remember that Hoyt was a beast on the court, 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:57.800 But come on, I don't think I had the power 0:14:57.840 --> 0:14:59.120 to sabotage your basketball. 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:03.240 Thank you for reminding me of that. 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.280 For the record, Chris and I both realized at tryouts 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:07.480 that we sucked at basketball. 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:09.560 It was the thing we initially bonded over. 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:12.080 So back to the legal stuff. I recently saw an 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.880 interview with an FCC official who defined robocalls. Want me 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.000 to read you the definition or would you rather look 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:18.360 it up? 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.040 No, I'd rather you read it to me for a 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:22.040 lot of reasons. 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:27.600 Sure thing, Chris. Here's the definition from the FCC official. 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.880 We take our definition from the Telephone Consumer Protection Act, 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:32.840 and it depends on whether the call is actually to 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:33.960 a wireless. 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:34.760 Phone or a landline phone. 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:37.720 Chris's firm had actually dealt with some cases around robocalling, 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:40.480 so as I'd hoped he knew something about it. 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:44.920 I think that's pretty obvious that you're not telemarketing. Well, 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:46.320 I mean, I guess I don't know what you're saying, 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.120 but you're not trying to sell anything to them, right. 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:53.440 Exactly, Chris, I'm not selling anything. 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:55.840 The whole point of these calls is to gather material 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:58.000 for the podcast, not to market or sell products. 0:15:58.280 --> 0:15:59.600 Well, I mean, I guess I don't. 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:00.640 Chris a little bit. 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:03.840 And the summary of his this is not actionable legal 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:07.240 advice advice was I was probably in the clear, but 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:08.320 I should still be careful. 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.720 My recollection of the TCPA is that you don't have 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:15.040 a knowledge requirement. In other words, you can't defend yourself 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.480 by saying, oh, I didn't know I was calling wireless numbers. 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:25.080 It's a strict liability statute. That's my recollection, got it. 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:27.600 So even if I didn't know I was calling wireless numbers, 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:30.440 it wouldn't matter because it's a strict liability statute. Thanks Chris, 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:35.440 that's really helpful. It was a solid discussion, probably as 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:37.520 good as I would have had with Chris had I 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:38.360 called him myself. 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:39.720 Maybe better. 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:42.440 I mean, the real me would have wasted an extra 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:46.680 twenty minutes talking politics with him. But more importantly, I 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.920 found out all of this much later during the actual call. 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:53.600 I was sitting outside having lunch, reading a book, just 0:16:53.640 --> 0:17:11.240 like that Zoom CEO wished he could be. When it 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:13.920 comes to voice AI and jobs, we've already talked about 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.880 the customer service call centers itching to use this technology. 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:19.679 Whatever you think about the state of customer service, it 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:24.080 employs a lot of people. Artists and musicians and actors 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.680 are also worried about AI generated creations replacing them again 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:30.800 trained on the art that humans have created, or just 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:34.480 overrunning the market with so much artistic content that what's 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:39.399 already hard living will become impossible. And what about the podcasters. 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:42.840 I'll let you in on a little industry secret. Podcasts 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:46.879 can already use software to replicate host's voices to redo 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:50.080 parts of shows without having to re record. Is it 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:52.760 that big of a leap to just let the AI. 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:53.240 Host a show? 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:59.520 Apparently not. One podcast company, Wondery, a company I've worked 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.439 with in the past, tried adding an AI host to 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:04.720 a sports roundup show last December. 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:08.560 Hey, Striker, here your source for all things New York sports. 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:11.879 My voice and writing are powered by AI and humans. 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:14.720 Time to fire up another edition of your daily sports 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:18.600 flash for Wednesday, December thirteenth. Light schedule in the Big 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.960 Apple Yesterday only one game and the Rangers played like 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:24.400 they had the night off. The red Hot Leaves. 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.919 Striker had a limited rollout and got some negative feedback 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.119 in the press. Weeks later, they just canceled the whole show. 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:35.199 The NHL Eastern Conference, Best Boston Bruins. We could be 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:36.240 in for some firework. 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.399 There are tons of other industry leaders wondering if they 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:44.440 could bring in AIS just to remix and regurgitate human creativity. 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:46.800 Maybe the AIS wouldn't do it as well as us. 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.199 That depends on whether these systems keep advancing, which is 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.120 a subject of some debate, but they still might work 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:56.840 well enough right now for corporations to take the savings 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:57.919 and send us packing. 0:18:58.760 --> 0:18:58.920 Now. 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:00.800 There are a number of ways people respond to the 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:04.520 existential dread of AIS threatening our jobs. Some people have 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:08.159 channeled their rage into lawsuits against AI companies or union 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:11.600 fights over stopping companies from using AI to replace workers. 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.439 Others have embraced AI quietly, making it part of their 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.920 creative process, trying to get ahead of the whole thing. 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:22.199 And then there's a kind of paralyzed majority folks who 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:26.840 are mostly just hoping it'll fade away like NFTs, remember NFTs, 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:29.760 or if not fade away, that at least it won't 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.359 improve enough to do the hardest, most human parts of 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.800 our jobs. I found myself in this group after chat 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:39.199 GPT came out. Sure, I can write a basic recap article, 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:41.960 we say to each other, but can it report a story? 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:45.360 Can it conduct the interviews? There was a big part 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:47.480 of me that wanted to stay in this group, in 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:51.159 the warm embrace of it'll never happen, But ultimately my 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.840 curiosity got the better of me. I wanted to know 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:57.600 what kind of replacement was possible, I mean, could it. 0:19:57.560 --> 0:19:59.000 Conduct the interviews? 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.760 Hello, Henikil. 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:06.520 Nikhil Gupta is one of the two founders of VAPPI, 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:10.840 the calling platform that has basically made this whole show possible. 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:13.280 By now, you know that I'm a big Vappy fan, 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:17.000 spend a lot of time consuming content by other Vappy fans. 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.159 And in this video, I am attempting to show you 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:20.600 the actual power of buppy Paul. 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:21.639 You can use it inside of him. 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.200 You remember Janis and the boys. So if there was 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:26.320 an interview I most wanted to get for the show, 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:30.080 it was Nikhil or his co founder, Jordan Dearsley. I 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:32.760 wanted to probe why they built this platform I'd been using, 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:35.360 What was it actually meant for? Who was using it? 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:38.320 I had a secondary reason why Nikil was the interview 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:40.639 I most wanted, though, as you may have already guessed, 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:42.679 I was planning to have my voice agent conduct the 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.159 interview for me, and I figured that even if it 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:48.199 wouldn't fool him, I mean, this guy would know the 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.320 sound of a clone better than anyone. He of all people, 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:53.600 would really have to go through with it, wouldn't he 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:56.480 If he got mad at it or hung up, he'd 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:59.480 sort of be undermining his own product. Great to be 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:01.960