1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,680 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the best of Coast to Coast podcast. 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: If you want to hear more than just this highlight 3 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: from the program, become a Coast Insider and you can 4 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: listen to the full episode, plus recent shows covering the 5 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: mysterious death of Kurt Kobain. The possibility that government may 6 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: soon reveal the truth about UFOs and the power of 7 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: witchcraft is told by an actual practicing which Start listening 8 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: now by heading over to Coast to Coast am dot 9 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: com at signing up for Coast Insider. Now here's a 10 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeart Radio. Liz 11 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: McIntyre is an award winning investigative writer privacy activists with 12 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: a flair for exposing corporate shenanigans and bureaucratic misdeeds. She 13 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: and our dear friend Dr Catherine Albrutt co authored the 14 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,599 Speaker 1: best selling books Spy Chips, How major corporations and government 15 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: plans to track your every purchase and watch your every move. 16 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: Liz works as a consultant for start page dot com 17 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: that's the world's most private search engine, and she invites 18 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: a lot of us to join her at Twitter for 19 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: le debates on technology and privacy issues of the day. 20 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: We'll tell you how you can find her on Twitter 21 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: as well. And you might remember a couple of weeks 22 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: ago a company in Wisconsin decided to ask their employees 23 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: if they would take the chip. The chip would be 24 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: embedded near their in their fingers there right there in 25 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: this corner, and it's the size of a grain of rice. 26 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 1: Lots of the employees volunteered to do it. So here's 27 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 1: Liz back with us after almost what eleven years? Liz, 28 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: you were on with me. It's been a very long time, 29 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 1: eleven years. I hope I did keep you on hold 30 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: that long. Oh my goodness, I'm back here with that 31 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: news on that Wisconsin chipping, which is really shocking. Now. 32 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: That was voluntary though, right, well, voluntary, George, I mean, 33 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: how voluntary is it? Uh? You know when your boss says, hey, 34 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: can you stay late tonight we have this big project. 35 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: Would you mind coming in and helping us a staple 36 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: a bunch of papers together for handouts or you do it? 37 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: On Saturday we had that ball game, can you come 38 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: and show the team on? I mean, how voluntary really 39 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: is that you say your boss something like that? Probably not? 40 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: Now if the good boss came to me and said, George, 41 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: we want you to be one of the first to 42 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: get a chip in your hand. We know you talk 43 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: a lot about it on coast to coast, and we 44 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: know you're opposed to it, but we want you to 45 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 1: get it. I don't think I would do it, Liz. 46 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: I mean I would I and I don't think. Now 47 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: there's like legislation in Nevada. The state senator there has 48 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: introduced legislation to make it illegal to force employees to 49 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: get chips. But you know, but I'm different. I I 50 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: don't know how many other people would simply say yes, Boss, 51 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: I'll do it for you. Well, surprisingly, about half of 52 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: the staff of this company called three Square Market agreed 53 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: to do it. That's about fifty people. And they actually 54 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 1: had a chipping party, and all these people they voluntarily 55 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: if you call it voluntary, but they they lined up 56 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: to get these these chips in their hands, which is 57 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: surprising considering these are pretty big honkers. I mean, they 58 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: say the grain the size of a grain of rice, 59 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: but I've never seen a grain of RoCE quite that big. 60 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: And they they apparently got the chips in order to 61 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: use the vending machine and things like that rather than 62 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: put your dollar through, you just kind of like hold 63 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: your chip up to some kind of reader or something. 64 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: And of course that's the future. They say what they say, Well, 65 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: this company, three Square Market, has a really ulterior motive 66 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: here because they actually manufacturer and place these snack kiosks 67 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: around the country. Uh you know, when you go to 68 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: an airport and they have those been snack doesn't get 69 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: a sandwich or a drink or you know, chips or 70 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: something and you go up there and you have to 71 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: dig into your pocket gets followed out or for some change. Hey, well, 72 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: what they want to do is have you pay with 73 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: the chip instead. So it's really easy. You just you know, 74 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: swipe your hand within about I guess ten centimeters of 75 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: this this reader device and you pay for it. I mean, 76 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: the money comes out of your card account that this 77 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: chip is linked to. And so they're hoping that it 78 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: would sell you know, they'll sell more products that way 79 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: if they make it easy. But of course if there's 80 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: the cool factor, they probably they made a big splash 81 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: because I mean they're doing it for marketing. They want 82 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: to stand out. They want to say, hey, look at us, 83 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: Look how great we are. Catherine will would always tell 84 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: us that the chip, in her opinion, was the mark 85 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 1: of the beast. Do you say the same thing. We 86 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: have a slight difference of opinion on that personally, George. 87 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I definitely see where this technolo g uh 88 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: could be used in the way that it's described in 89 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 1: the Bible, of course, in in Revelation, and it talks 90 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: about a day when you won't be able to right. 91 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: And definitely, you know, if a retailer said, hey, you 92 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: can't come into my store unless you have you know, 93 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: a unique identifier, you know, a chip in you Uh, yeah, 94 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: I mean it's possible. I mean they could close the door, 95 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: they could say, hey, unless you scan your chip, you 96 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: can't come in here. So so theoretically it's very possible. However, George, Um, 97 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: I've been into the patents a lot, as you know 98 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: in our book, we we did a lot of patents 99 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 1: that was kind of my specialty. And I've seen some 100 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: technology very similar that would be even closer. So I'm 101 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: really hesitant to say, wow, here's the mark of the beast, 102 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: because if we say that and then something else comes 103 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: along tho, though, well, you were wrong, rightly, I think 104 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: it's more responsible to say, you know, let's keep on 105 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: keep an eye on this definitely, I mean, even if 106 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: it isn't really bad idea anyway. But you know, like 107 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: some patterns I've seen, like for printed chips, I mean, 108 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: there are patterns where there's actually an electronic tattoo that 109 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: could be printed on your hand or on your forehead, 110 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: which of course is the other place, rights even an 111 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: invisible kind of ink, and that would be more probable 112 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: because you're probably not going to want a big, lumpy 113 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: chip in your forehead, that's right. Plus what happens if 114 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: somebody robs you and wants to gouge it out of 115 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: your hand to use it, almost like credit card fraud, 116 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: but they grab your chip. You know, that's a bloody possibility, George. Um. 117 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: The other possibility is that and I don't know this 118 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: for sure because I actually haven't had a chance to 119 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: look and examine these chips or talk to hackers yet 120 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: about them. And you know they're going to test them. 121 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: But you know, years ago, the very chip, you remember, 122 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: the very chip, very similar, very similar technology of glass 123 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: and capsulated r if ID tag for embedding in the flesh, 124 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 1: that was actually hacked by a hacker Naan Jonathan westcues, 125 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: and he proved that he could actually clone it, so 126 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: he could walk up to someone really close to them 127 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: and actually glean the unique number off that chip, which 128 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: is like a unique identifier like a SOF security number really, 129 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: which could link to basically unlimited information in a database. 130 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: He could he could clone that and pretend to be 131 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: that person. So, you know, I don't know how good 132 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: the security is yet on this chip, but we know 133 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,239 Speaker 1: almost anything can get hacked these days, so it wouldn't 134 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: surprise me. What are some of the possibilities future wise 135 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: of these chips being used for? What are what are 136 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: the things they would use? Just about everything? Every application 137 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: that we use a credit card for, you would use 138 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: the chip. Four. If you're going to get gasoline, you 139 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: hold your hand up to the pump, stuff like that exactly. Um, 140 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: I mean that's the vision. That's the vision. Of course, 141 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: it goes beyond payment devices though for payment. Actually, this 142 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: snack company, this three Square Marketing is telling their employees that, hey, 143 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: we don't want to just use this for payment because 144 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: of course, George, I mean, how many people are gonna 145 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: get a chip to get a quick fix with the cheetahs? 146 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: Get my eminem's or something like that, Right, that's kind 147 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: of yeah, it's the point. They're just kind of wow, 148 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense. However, if you sell it by saying, hey, 149 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: you know, this chip can be used for a lot 150 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: of other reasons too. It can unlock your phone, it 151 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: can unlock your computer, your car, the door to your house. 152 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: And in fact, the three Square Marketing is talking about 153 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: um having employees use these devices to access the photocopier 154 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: actually maybe access the phone and any number of other things. 155 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: And what about a t M machines and you won't 156 00:08:54,920 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: need your little cards anymore exactly. So you know that 157 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: that's kind of the future they're seeing. But but I 158 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: think that, frankly, it's a super bad idea, and everyone 159 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: I talked to is just not buying it. I think 160 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: they're making a big deal of it, and I think 161 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: they're trying to make this fly. But seriously, I, like you, George, 162 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: I just don't see it happening. I mean, I think 163 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: there are some some people out there, are some hackers 164 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: who really think it's cool, but you know what, they 165 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: want to control this technology. They don't want to be 166 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: controlled by it, so they're just not going to buy 167 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: into all of this stuff. I mean, they just really aren't. 168 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: And I think also there's a big segment of the 169 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: population that's going, hey, you know, I see this as 170 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: possibly an entry, a gateway to the to a technology 171 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: that would be like the mark of the Beast. So 172 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: it's just not going to do it. Listen to more 173 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one a m. 174 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am dot com 175 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: for more