WEBVTT - #340 Jason Flom with John Giuca Pt.1 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.920 In recording our coverage of John Juca's case, we realized 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:05.320 that there are simply too many twists and turns for 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.800 one episode, so we split this episode in two and 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:14.080 are releasing both at the same time. On October eleventh, 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:16.880 two thousand and three, three groups of college kids, one 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:19.880 from Long Island, another from Brooklyn, as well as New Jersey, 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:22.239 ran into one another at a bar on the upper 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:26.560 East side of Manhattan. A mutual friend among them, Angel DiPietro, 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:29.920 New Brooklyn night Albert Cleary, as well as her Fairfield 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.600 University classmate Mark Fisher, a football player from New Jersey. 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:36.960 When the knight started to wind down and all of 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.440 the trains of Long Island and New Jersey had stopped running, 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:42.760 Albert Cleary's friend, twenty year old John Juca, offered up 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:45.400 his house in Flatbush, Brooklyn for an after party at 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:48.919 a place to crash. A few of John and Albert's 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:52.600 friends joined, including a neighborhood tough guy named Antonio Russo. 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:56.800 Sometime before six am, Angel and Albert walked to his 0:00:56.880 --> 0:01:00.920 nearby house. Since Angel was the only person Mark Fisher knew, 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:03.080 he left to find his way over to Albert's with 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:06.560 Antonio Russo and soon ended up fatally shot without his 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:10.480 wallet on the driveway across from Albert Cleary's house, a 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:15.320 blanket from John's house at its feet. In the immediate aftermath, 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:19.560 Antonio Russo cut his dreadlocks and absconded to California. A 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:23.160 police investigation revealed that other voices at a car door 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:27.440 were heard before the gunshots. Albert and Angel denied any knowledge, 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:30.440 and soon statements were made that alleged that John Juca 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:34.679 was involved. The motivations and level of involvement buried. But 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:38.320 with this many witnesses placing blame on John. There had 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:42.160 to be something to it. But this is wrongful conviction. 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:54.680 Welcome back to wronful conviction. Today, we have a story 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.960 that was front page news all over New York City 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:02.000 when it happened, with flaring headlines, salacious headlines about want 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:05.360 to be Brooklyn gangsters who allegedly conspired at an after 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:08.160 party to kill a suburban college football star who just 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:11.959 happened to be in their midst, when in fact, there 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.200 were no gangsters, only a group of friends, and the 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.400 murder was not a group effort at all. The only 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.480 group effort here took the form of multiple conflicting false 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.920 statements against a member of that group, John Juka, and 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:27.519 John is calling in from prison in upstate New York 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:30.600 right now. I'm sorry you're here under these circumstances, but 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:31.840 we're very honored to have you. 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:32.359 Thank you. 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.320 The only good news in this whole, miserable story is 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:37.560 that his attorney is Mark Bedow, and Mark is one 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:40.680 of the most respected criminal defense attorneys in the New 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:45.160 York area and beyond. Mark, Welcome to Rofel Conviction. Glad 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:47.560 to be here. Thanks for having me and Mark. Why 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:50.040 was this such a high profile case? 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:52.040 This was a big one at the time. I was 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:54.919 a prosecutor in Manhattan and I remember it in real time, 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:57.560 just reading tabloids on the subway going to work. It 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:00.640 was in the fall of two thousand and it felt 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:04.600 like there was an update on this flawed investigation every day. 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:08.240 It was the grid kid murder case, because you had 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:12.320 a situation where the victim was the all American son 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:15.040 that any parent wish they had as a child. Mark 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:18.840 Fisher was a nineteen year old, good looking college football 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:22.080 player from New Jersey who went to Brooklyn for the 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:26.079 first time in his life, and unfortunately he ended up 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:29.800 dead on the street, and certainly that's the kind of 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:33.040 thing that is going to feed the tabloids and get 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:37.560 the public attention. So the grid Kid murder case became 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.200 sensational from day one, and. 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:43.880 That moniker actually referred to the admitted grid Kid killer, 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:50.240 John's co defendant, Antonio Russo. But somehow John's face was 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:54.800 also plastered on the front page of those tabloids as 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:58.400 if he was some sort of criminal mastermind or co 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:05.080 conspirator to somehow actually involved. The prosecution never actually decided 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:07.440 on any one theory. They just put all this stuff 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:11.000 out there and the press ate it up, and of 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:16.880 course this media firestorm polluted the jury pool. Now, don't 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:21.120 forget the HBO series The Sopranos was an absolute cultural 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:22.960 phenomenon at this time. It's the only thing people were 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:26.520 talking about it. So this story of the death of 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:30.920 a promising suburban kid allegedly at the hands of these 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:36.000 wannabe mafia city kids was like it was the imperfect storm. 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:38.320 It just captured everybody's imaginations. 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:41.320 By the time his trial came around, you actually had 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:45.240 the prosecutor comparing him to Tony Soprano and talking about 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:49.039 ordering hits to build up street credibility for a non 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.360 existent gang, which in fact was just a bunch of 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:54.800 knucklehead teenagers in Brooklyn calling themselves names. 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:59.359 And this alleged gang was called the Ghetto Mafia. Right, So, John, 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:01.920 what exactly was the Ghetto Mafia? 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.800 Oh? My god, it was a bunch of kids hanging out. 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.080 We had some people who who used to hang out 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.160 with us who never even heard of that name, some 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:12.040 people who considered it a joke, and there were other 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:16.279 people who didn't. One thing was never was an actual gang. 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:19.000 John was just a regular, you know, nineteen year old 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:19.880 Brooklyn kid. 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:22.720 So let's talk about your life before all of this, John, 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:24.560 You grew up in Flatbush, Brooklyn. Right. 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.679 It's like a little enclave in flat Bush called Prospect 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:30.040 Park South. I guess you could say I grew up 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:32.680 in a regular, middle class upbringing. First, I went to 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:35.039 public school PS one thirty nine. Then I went to 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.720 Catholic school around third grade when my mother met my stepfather. 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:40.280 So your parents broke up when you were. 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:42.680 Young, Yes, when I was five years old my stepfather, 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.480 but considered him like my father. Also, I didn't look 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:47.839 at it as a negative thing. Really, my real father 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.440 went on to get married again, and that woman who 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:52.800 he married already had kids, so he had a family 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.320 over there too, and I considered them family also. I 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:57.599 looked at it as I had two fathers, like two 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:59.960 men in my life who loved me and wanted to 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:01.560 see me succeed and support me. 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.920 Then your biological father ended up suffering a stroke when 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:07.960 you were nineteen, which ended up having relevance in this case. 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:10.160 But at that time, like you said, both he and 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.920 your stepdad were supportive of you. You were trying to 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:15.400 succeed as an actor and actually got some work as 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:16.039 a teenager. 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.039 Yes, I was on School of Rock. I got to 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:20.680 meet Jack Black, the guys from Law and Order. I 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.040 was on Lawn Order like ten times. I played a 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:25.240 dead kid on Law and Order. I remember one funny 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.760 story that I'm on Law and Order and I'm the 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:29.760 dead kids. I'm laying on the pavement and I have 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.120 fake blood all over my head and everything, and I 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:35.720 remember the two actors, Jerry or Back and the other one, 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:36.640 the two main. 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.120 Cops, Jerry or Back and Chris nods. 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:42.440 Yeah, and they have to kneel down and search my pockets. 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:44.080 I have a pair of keys that they're supposed to 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:46.400 take out of my pockets. And so Jerry Orban kneels 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:48.920 down and he kneels right on the keys and he's 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.480 son of a bitch and they're like caught. And then 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:54.640 they shoot it like four, five, six, seven times. They 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.200 keep trying to shoot it. Things keep going wrong. And 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:00.479 then I had smoked some weed before I went. I 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.800 think I was like six seventeen years old, and this 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:07.800 is not part of script, and he goes it smells 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:12.880 like marijuana, and they're like, cut and what are you 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:16.160 talking about. He's like, I don't know, it smells like marijuana. 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:18.280 And my stepfather's looking at me like, oh my god, 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:19.360 I'm going to kill you. 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:23.280 That's incredible, and Jerry or back rest in peace. I 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.240 can just picture it in my mind right now. And 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:29.040 your stepfather was there too, So it sounds like you 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:31.880 had this great sort of blended Brady bunch sort of 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.640 a family situation. And can you tell us about the 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:36.880 woman at the center of it. And I'm talking about 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:40.160 your mom, Doreen, And I know her from rallies and 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:44.560 events and calls and texts, and she's just a pillar 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:47.400 of strength and somebody I admire greatly. 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.000 Yeah, but she was a recogd stay at home mom. 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:52.440 She was more I guess you could say, liberal minded. 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:54.400 Like my house was the house where a lot of 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:56.560 kids from the neighborood used to come and she used 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:58.600 to feed them, or we used to play basketball in 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.480 the backyard or whatever. She always told me that law 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.360 enforcement were the good guy. I remember this growing up. 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:06.920 She was encouraging me to go to John Jay, encouraging 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:09.240 me to become a comp Her brother is a correctional 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:10.720 my uncle Eddie. 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:14.000 That's another crazy irony about your story, which is that 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:16.679 while you were pursuing an acting career, you were also 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.040 studying criminal justice at John Jay College. 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:22.600 Yes, and what you learn about the criminal justice system 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:25.680 in school is just one hundred and eighty degrees from 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:28.920 the reality of the criminal justice system. They say that 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:30.600 you have all these rights, and they're not going to 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:33.040 arrest people unless this standard is mad, and then they 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.920 don't get convicted unless this standard is met, and on 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:37.439 and just none of that is true. 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:40.000 Yeah, you saw those standards go out the window pretty 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:42.680 quickly when the false statements that were used to obtain 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:46.600 your arrest, warrant and conviction didn't even form a cohesive narrative. Now, 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:48.959 one of the people who gave false testimony against you 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:51.960 was your girlfriend at the time, Lauren Calciano. Now we're 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:54.800 going to read from her recantation later. But you two 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:56.560 had started dating in high school, right. 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.440 She was my first love. I was with hers since 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:01.960 I was about I don't know, fifteen or sixteen. I 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:04.840 thought I wanted to get married and everything. We were young. 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:07.800 Why used to practically live at her house sometimes I 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:08.800 knew her whole family. 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:12.480 You ended up hiring her family's attorney, Sam Gregory, who 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.280 had previously represented her father, sal Cassiano. 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:17.960 He was head of the events in the World Trade Center. 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:20.920 He went to federal prisons because the World Trade Center 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:23.240 got robbed. They said it was about four million Americans, 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:24.319 So this is in the nineties. 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:28.440 Sometimes, for whatever her father's mistakes were, the DA was 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:32.080 eventually able to use her father's situation, among other things, 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.600 in order to coerce her false testimony against you. They 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:39.120 were also able to coerce or incentivize your friend Albert 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:41.960 Cleary as well, who was arguably closer to this incident 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.760 than you were. Albert's mother, Susan Cleary, was the vice 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:47.800 president of the King's County GOP Executive Committee, the group 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:49.760 in Brooklyn that can authorize what is known as a 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.480 Wilson pacula, which allows a candidate from another party to 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.080 run on that party's ticket, and it can be used 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:59.040 in order to run unopposed or in the case when 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:02.280 a candidate loses party's primary election. Whether or not that 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:04.679 was a bargaining ship used to keep her son's name 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:07.480 out of the investigation, that's something we'll never know. 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:09.920 A lot of people say the system is broken. I 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:13.000 don't think it's broken. I think it's working exactly how 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:15.560 they intended it to work, as like a battering ram 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:16.600 for the rich and powerful. 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:19.160 Yeah, and as we've seen in cases like yours, the 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.480 prosecutor's office will use high profile cases for publicity with 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.360 the hope of reaping those benefits come election time. Now, 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:27.720 back in two thousand and three, the DA was Charles 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:31.439 Joe Hines who was facing a primary challenge in two 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:34.120 thousand and five, and wouldn't you know that he stretched 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:37.840 out this investigation and prosecution. You guessed it to occur 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.480 right before the election. He ended up winning both the 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.160 primary and the general. Now, anyone who's familiar with our 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.800 podcast is familiar with the problems in Brooklyn during the 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:49.600 Heinz era. Nineteen ninety to twenty thirteen is a really 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:52.480 dark period for criminal justice in Brooklyn. 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:56.360 Hines was a political creature of the first order. That 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:59.800 office back then was known as the poster child for 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:03.240 wrongful convictions. Maybe in the last ten or fifteen years 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:06.880 when people have really been paying attention to the problem 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:08.880 of wrongful convictions, but I think a lot of the 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:13.040 momentum on this really started when people like Ken Thompson 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:17.199 were running against Hines ten years ago and exposing bad 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:19.839 case after bad case that was coming out of the 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:23.640 Hines Brooklyn DA's office. And this is exhibit A. John 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:25.880 Juka to this day is exhibit A. 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:27.800 And many of the people who worked under Hines, who 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:31.240 were responsible and complicit and so many of the wrongful 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.280 convictions of that era are still there today. And those 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:36.800 who have moved on to private practice or even careers 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:39.520 in media, like the trial prosecutor in this case, Anna 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:44.600 Sega Nicklazzi. Those former heinz Adas, their reputations in public 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:48.200 fates are arguably tied to the political fate of the 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:49.440 Brooklyn DA's office. 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.320 In terms of the graduates of the Hines DA's office. 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:56.480 This trial prosecutor was their superstar and the biggest red 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.640 flag in a case like this when a trial prosecutor 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.920 markets themselves as I'm a homicide DA and I've never 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.319 lost a case. I have a perfect record and. 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:09.760 Her trial record, let me tell you something, if you 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.160 want thirty six a poker in a row, you're cheating. 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:16.040 And after John's conviction, you know all this marketing. This 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.520 is a successful DA. She's on TV today as an 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:23.320 expert on everything that's right in criminal justice, and it 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:26.520 would have been humiliating for the Brooklyn DA to take 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:30.520 her down. For years after this conviction, John's was her 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:35.000 number one marketing pitch on her greatest hits, and after 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:39.839 two post conviction hearings and litigation and covered extensively in 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:42.520 the media, when one judge of the New York Court 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.600 of Appeals ripped the prosecutor a new one and basically 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:49.679 all but called her corrupt and deliberately violating his rights, 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:54.840 all the references to John's heroic conviction have been scrubbed 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.600 from the record, which makes you wonder if you're proud 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:01.080 of this conviction and proud of what you've done. Why 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:01.680 you would do that? 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:05.280 Why would anyone be proud of what should be It 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:08.960 really should be illegal, sending an innocent man to prison 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:14.600 and effectively compounding the tragic loss of another young man's life. 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.160 So let's get to the incident, the crux of everything 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:21.280 we're discussing. Of course, I'm referring to the awful night 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.800 of October eleventh into the twelfth of two thousand and three. 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:27.880 It was Columbus Day weekend. Mark Fisher, who went to 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.400 Fairfield University in Connecticut and some of his friends went 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:35.280 to the city and partied. John Juca and his friend 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:38.760 Albert Cleary and a few others also went to the city, 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:42.760 and the groups ended up being connected through a very 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:47.800 interesting person in this sordid process named Angel DiPietro, who 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:53.000 was a college classmate and theoretically friend of Mark Fisher, 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.840 who also was friendly with Albert Cleary. 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:59.240 Angel Dipietro's father was a prominent Long Island defense attorney 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:02.200 as well. So you had the Brooklyn contingent, which was 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:06.319 John Albert Cleary, and two more neighborhood friends, Angel di 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:10.240 Pietro and her friend Meredith Denahan from Long Island and 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:12.360 Mark Fisher who had come in from New Jersey, and 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:14.319 they met at a bar on the Upper eastide of Manhattan, 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:16.720 which at the time was known to college kids for 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:19.280 being the home of many bars that had pretty loose 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:24.000 id policies. Right and so now it was getting late 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:26.480 and the Long Island and New Jersey kids had to 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:27.880 figure out a way home on the train. 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.400 The last train left, the next one didn't leave till 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:33.200 sometime the next morning, so they were stranded. So I 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:37.080 opened my house to them. In the cab, it was me, Albert, 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:41.920 Mary Mark, and Angel. Me and Albert paid for the cab. 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:44.560 And then after we got there, a few more people 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.400 showed up. I'm pretty sure it was Tommy. Jimmy, my 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:49.760 brother was home, and then Antonio Russo. 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.520 Russo had a house right behind John, so they were 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:54.400 certainly friendly from the neighborhood now. 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:58.960 Antonio Russo was a strongly built high school dropout who 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:01.880 wore dreadlocks and sold weed, which was the reason he 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.400 gave for coming over to John's house in a twenty 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:06.920 eighteen interview with the cops to sell weed to some 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.520 of those who were interested, and according to three people, 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.960 Russo had a gun in his waistband both before and 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.640 after the murder. One of those three people said they 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:16.440 had been threatened with it. 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.480 He's the tough guy. He's a little bit crazy, not 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:22.120 in the legal sense, just in the real world sense. 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:26.160 He's the resident tough guy. He's making everyone uncomfortable. 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:29.720 But for now he's supplying weed to this otherwise fun 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:33.040 after party at John's house. Now, at some point Mark 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.680 Fisher made some sort of a faux pas that served 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:38.040 as an alleged motive. 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:41.200 Everybody was drinking, a couple of people with smoking weed. 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:45.120 At one point Marks out on a table and we're 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:46.040 going a big deal. 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:49.200 Right sitting on a table. I've never heard that be 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.160 cited as a reason to kill anyone. And what's nice 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:56.800 about Antonio Russo's statement to detectives in twenty eighteen is 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.160 that it takes some of the guest work out of 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:02.520 what actually happened. Now, Russo said that he and Fisher 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.800 went to the ATM together so Fisher could buy weed. 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:09.200 Their re seat said for twenty three, but according to 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.120 the bank it was an hour behind. This was five 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:16.200 twenty three am. So. Russo and Fisher returned to John's 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:18.840 house a little after that. Now, Albert and Angel were 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:21.840 there when they returned, so they soon left together to 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.360 go to Albert's, which was only a couple of blocks away. 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:27.040 They were there when they came back from UTM, Yes, 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:29.800 and then they slip out. They say they said goodbye 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.360 to people, but I don't remember them saying goodbye to anybody. 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:34.400 I just remember them disappearing. 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.200 Without Meredith or Mark, by the way, both of whom 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.640 had a reasonable expectation that they'd be sticking with Angel 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.600 and Albert, which was their only connection to this after party. 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:45.760 Now we're not sure why they were left behind, but nonetheless, 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:49.360 Meredith had fallen asleep, and before Mark actually did you 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:52.720 called Albert at five fifty seven am to let him 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.080 know that Mark was on his way over, and then 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:58.760 Russo left with him. Correct Now, it was cold out right, 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:02.080 so Mark asked if he could take the blanket that 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.199 he had draped over his shoulders, and that becomes an 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.719 interesting topic of conversation or evidence, if you could call 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:09.639 it that, later on. What we know is that forty 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:12.080 minutes later, Mark Fisher was shot and killed in front 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.640 of one fifty Argyle Road, which was just a few 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.960 blocks from John's house and directly across the street from Albert's. 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:19.920 Directly across the street from Cleary's house. 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:23.520 Correct Now, according to Google Maps, this is about a 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.280 five minute walk less than a quarter of a mile, 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:28.959 so we're not sure what happened in those other thirty 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:32.080 five minutes. The free floating radicals, if you will, are 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:36.120 Mark Fisher, Antonio Russo, Angel Di Pietro, and Albert Cleary. 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:41.439 Now from this twenty eighteen detectives report, Russo said that 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:44.959 while on Argyle Road, he pulled out his German Luger 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.520 nine millimeter, which belonged to him and him alone. He 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:52.520 took Fisher's wallet and told him to run before firing 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:54.320 a shot at the ground to let Fisher know that 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.480 the gun was real and loaded. He then fired a 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:01.000 shot at Fisher, who fell to the ground. When Fisher 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:03.600 asked him why he had shot him, Russo emptied his 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:06.760 clip into him, killing him on the spot. Now, Russo 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:08.760 said that there was a woman in a car who 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:12.119 could identify him. When he was fleeing the scene, he 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.359 got rid of the wallet at a sewer near his house. 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.600 It was later recovered by police. Now, immediately after the crime, 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:21.480 Antonio Russo did a few things that a guilty person might. 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:23.320 He used to wear braids in whole life, and he 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:24.080 shaved his head. 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:28.199 Russo then decides to take a vacation in California for 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:30.359 a month and just disappear. 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.879 And it'll become clear that Russo's twenty eighteen account is 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:36.399 definitely missing a few details. But what is absolutely certain 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:39.720 is that he said he did this alone with his 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:40.520 own gun. 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.960 The other interesting factor was the people who lived on 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:48.160 Argyle Road. They heard voices right before the shots, and 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:52.320 the woman whose bedroom was right above the driveway where 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:56.000 Mark was found heard car doors opening and closing. Also 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.840 heard young voices, and she was adamant that one of 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:02.040 them was a female voice. 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:05.840 Right the ocumen of one point fifty Argyle, wrote Heroko. 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:09.240 Swornick said that she was awakened by her dog barking 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.080 and heard the sound of a car door opening and shutting, 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.320 which was later clarified to be a van door. The 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.439 Clearies owned a van. Swornick went on to say that 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.560 the view from her second story window was obstructed by foliage, 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.280 but she heard more than two young people talking. The 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:27.440 conversation specifically did not sound like an argument, and one 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:29.920 of the voices was female. She said that she went 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:31.919 back to bed, and a bit later she and her 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:35.400 husband heard gunshots and called police. Mark Fischer's body had 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:38.679 been shot five times. The blanket from John's house lay 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.200 underneath his feet, and there were abrasions on his right 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:43.639 hand on the right side of his face, suggesting that 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:45.920 he had been in a fight with someone who was 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:49.199 left handed. While the suggestion of that physical evidence is 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.760 not proof positive of anything, John is in fact a 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.720 writing and also visible in the crime scene photos is 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:59.560 a petite, bare footprint left in the mud. But none 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.199 of those details were even brought up in trial, and 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.159 neither was what the police heard from neighbors. 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:07.640 They did a canvas of the neighborhood. Some people said 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:11.000 that they heard shots. Some people said that they heard 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:16.000 a flighting van door and also saw a dark colored 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.160 car speeding away curiously. 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:22.880 Antonio Russo also mentioned in that twenty eighteen report being 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:25.159 seen by a woman in a car while he fled 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:27.560 on foot. And by the way, he's not left handed either. 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:30.320