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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stump Mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From House Step Words dot Com. Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Molly. Molly. I just

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Speaker 1: learned a rather mind being affect about you really earlier

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Speaker 1: this morning, from me or from someone else from you, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm from Tableau and Gossip, Molly. I learned that you

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Speaker 1: have never and this is surprising because you were well

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Speaker 1: versed in film, You've never seen a James Bond movie.

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Speaker 1: That's true. Never, not a one, not a one. When

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Speaker 1: people argue about who the best James Bond is I have,

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Speaker 1: I have no dog in the fight, like I couldn't

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Speaker 1: name them all to save my life. One I have

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Speaker 1: no idea about it. One upside of that, I will say,

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Speaker 1: at least you never get the song gold Fringer stuck

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Speaker 1: in your head like it has been stuck in my

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Speaker 1: head all morning. No now I am. I am blissfully

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Speaker 1: ignorant of the James Bond world. Do you just not

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Speaker 1: want to see it? Um? I guess not. It seems

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Speaker 1: like a big commitment. It seems like, once you see one,

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Speaker 1: you got to see them all. Oh no, I've just

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Speaker 1: seen a handful. Alright, Well, people come ride in and

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Speaker 1: tell me which ones to see. Yeah, yeah, I'll tell

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Speaker 1: give Molly some recommendations. Five James Bond film. But um,

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Speaker 1: you know, James Bond came up because our topic of

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Speaker 1: the day of spies spies, and I would say, when

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Speaker 1: most people think of spies, James Bond is the He's

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Speaker 1: the head Han show. Yeah, double O seven. He's the

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Speaker 1: most famous spy in the world. And uh, we wanted

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Speaker 1: to take a look at some unsung heroes at espionage.

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Speaker 1: And you might guess from our podcast that it's going

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Speaker 1: to be the ladies. Be the ladies. And we found

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Speaker 1: out in two thousand and eight that Britain's secret spy

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Speaker 1: agency am I six was trying to recruit more lady spies,

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Speaker 1: and particularly mother's. It was funny. They were encouraging moms

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Speaker 1: to apply and assured women that they would not be

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Speaker 1: used as honey pots. Yeah, honeypots. I think it's impossible

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Speaker 1: to separate female spies from sex because of these honeypots. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we don't even know how often a honeypot or

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Speaker 1: a honey trap is used, but basically, as soon as

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Speaker 1: there's a female spy, people assume that she's having sex

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Speaker 1: with her targets to get information, because whils what a

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Speaker 1: dude talk to a woman then if you wanted to

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Speaker 1: get into her pants. And there's actually a recent news

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Speaker 1: story about an Israeli rabbi who endorsed honeypot operations because

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Speaker 1: you know, further go to the country if you gotta

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Speaker 1: do what you gotta do. It's not a sansoy son

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Speaker 1: but well no, but he said, if you were married

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Speaker 1: female spy, you need to divorce your husband first, then

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Speaker 1: go about your honey pot and ways, and then the

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Speaker 1: husband could remarry you. Yeah, technicalities, but Brittain is saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're not going to do the honey pot ways,

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Speaker 1: but we we think that you'd be a great spy

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Speaker 1: mother mother. But this is kind of funny. Though they

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Speaker 1: were they were worried. The British Secret Service agency was

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Speaker 1: a little concerned they had had a drop in female

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Speaker 1: recruits in recent years because of a British TV thriller

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Speaker 1: in which a female agent's head was dipped in a

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Speaker 1: deep friar. So they're like, oh, balba and so they

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Speaker 1: started this, uh, this revitalized campaign to say women, you

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Speaker 1: won't end up in deep friers, we won't make you

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Speaker 1: an impulse and ductresses promise, and uh, you know they

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Speaker 1: have to do this actually because there is an affirmative

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Speaker 1: action movement going on. They have to diversify the department.

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Speaker 1: But they are saying that, you know, women can bring

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Speaker 1: these special skills to the spy table. And uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: Britain's embraced spies goes back to nine five when this

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Speaker 1: UM confidential document was made and it was just released

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Speaker 1: in the last few years and uh, you know, World

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Speaker 1: War two had just ended, and so the spy agency was,

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Speaker 1: you know, evaluating how things went during the war. And

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Speaker 1: this guy named Maxwell Knight wrote a report. And I

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Speaker 1: should note that some people think that Maxwell Knight was

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Speaker 1: a model for m and James Bond. Granted I don't

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Speaker 1: know who that is because I don't watch James Bond movies,

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Speaker 1: but he apparently was influential in them. UM. But he

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Speaker 1: wrote this report about how the female spies had done

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Speaker 1: and he said, we need to get rid of we

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Speaker 1: need to get rid of these perceptions that women are

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Speaker 1: bad spies. As long as they're not over sexed, they're fine. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: over sex or under sex. He wrote. If over sex,

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Speaker 1: it is clear that this will play an overwriting part

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Speaker 1: in their mental processes. If under sex, they will not

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Speaker 1: be so mentally alert, and there are other faculties will

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Speaker 1: suffer accordingly. And it is difficult to imagine anything more

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Speaker 1: terrifying than for an officer to become landed with a

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Speaker 1: woman agent who suffers from an overdose of sex. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know it's true. I mean it's kind of like heroin.

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Speaker 1: I mean you just the write amount, yeah, just right amount,

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Speaker 1: and you're fine. But a little too much and you

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Speaker 1: are you are worthless and dead. That's it. You might

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Speaker 1: I wonder if that's too little and you're not you're

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Speaker 1: not mentally I wonder if the current job seekers are

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Speaker 1: having to make comments on how sex they are. I mean, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's nineteen five. The guy is not using the most

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Speaker 1: politically correct language. And because there is that stereotype that

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Speaker 1: all women are having sex with their targets, he's kind

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Speaker 1: of saying, you know, we don't want those women. We

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Speaker 1: don't win her getting into it just to have sex, right,

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Speaker 1: And there's always the risk of a woman agent falling

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Speaker 1: in love with someone, because if they're having all this

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Speaker 1: sex with someone, we're going to get a touch. And

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Speaker 1: he also gives us a bad handed compliment in saying

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Speaker 1: that the difference between men and women is that men

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Speaker 1: are conceded and women are vain. And the why this

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Speaker 1: makes a difference is that most of the indiscretions in espionage,

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Speaker 1: accordingly apparently are are because of the men's conceit. They

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Speaker 1: will be uh, you know, trying to get you know,

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Speaker 1: Laurie from their spy activities. Yeah, maybe they'll take too

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Speaker 1: big of a risk just to pull off a mission.

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Speaker 1: But he said, the women, because they're vain, they are

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Speaker 1: going to express their joy at being a spy by

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Speaker 1: just wearing nicer clothes and taking more pride in their appearance.

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Speaker 1: So that's how I express my joy podcasting. It's not,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's not the most um. It's certainly not

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Speaker 1: going to take its place among the great documents that

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Speaker 1: have helped women get to where they are today. But

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Speaker 1: at least the guy was making the point that female spies,

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Speaker 1: he was saying, they have something that we need to

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Speaker 1: be exploiting, we need to be using, we need to

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Speaker 1: bring them in on more things. And that's pretty admirable.

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Speaker 1: But then in say vainly exactly, Uh, but it's taken

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Speaker 1: a while four some of these agencies to catch on

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Speaker 1: to all of that, including the c i A because

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Speaker 1: in Time magazine was reporting on a sexual discrimination class

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Speaker 1: actually in lawsuit filed against the Central Intelligence Agencies Directorate

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Speaker 1: of Operations, which is the service that gathers intelligence overseas,

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Speaker 1: and basically a group of female spies, UH was alleging

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Speaker 1: that the CIA was discriminating against them and pushing them

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Speaker 1: into less prominent positions just because of their possession of vaginas.

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Speaker 1: And I do think that, you know, in this article,

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Speaker 1: the CIA made some interesting points about why women can't,

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Speaker 1: you know, be in the field the way men can,

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Speaker 1: especially if you look at our current landscape with so

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Speaker 1: much trouble going on in the Middle East. Uh, it's

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Speaker 1: harder to send a woman there. For example, you know,

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Speaker 1: in Saudi Arabia, she couldn't drive a car. Burk as

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Speaker 1: our standard clothing for a lot of women there. So

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Speaker 1: it's it's interesting to see how, um, the CIA is

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Speaker 1: responding to the current situation in the world. But if

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Speaker 1: there were ever people who could disguise themselves and get information. Anyways, Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's women based on some historical samples that we drommed

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Speaker 1: up because disguises would be nothing new. Two female spies

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Speaker 1: or using their feminine wiles or uh just being all

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Speaker 1: around badasses, yeah, or just taking advantage of this idea

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Speaker 1: that women are in the background, cooking and cleaning and

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Speaker 1: they're not paying attention to this manly talk. That's how

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Speaker 1: like all the spy secrets of the past have been

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Speaker 1: have been one and so we wanted to spend some

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Speaker 1: time talking about some pretty cool female spies. First and foremost,

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Speaker 1: we got to talk about Virginia Hall because to me,

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Speaker 1: she is the coolest lit spa of World War Two.

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Speaker 1: And she had a bum leg that she nicknamed what

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Speaker 1: was Eugene Cuthbert Cuthbert, I don't know where I got Eugene. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was her artificial leg. And so when she was

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Speaker 1: trying to escape Nazi she had to walk on foot

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Speaker 1: out of France, and so she sends this message to

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Speaker 1: her superiors, like Cuthbert has given me some trouble, and

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Speaker 1: they're like, if Cuthbert gives trouble, eliminate him. But we

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Speaker 1: gotta tell people what what Virginia Hall did. Of course

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Speaker 1: she was. She was a decoder. Yeah, she um and

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Speaker 1: it's so cool. She joined the Special Operations Executive in

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Speaker 1: Britain just because she met some guy on a train,

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Speaker 1: and the guy on the train had the foresight to

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Speaker 1: see that this was going to be a pretty great spy.

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Speaker 1: So she goes underground and works for the British and uh.

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Speaker 1: And then later when she has to escape when the

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Speaker 1: Nazis getter, she she says, you know what, the first

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Speaker 1: thing every kind of like a desk post, and she's like,

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Speaker 1: I need to go back in. And so she goes

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Speaker 1: in as a wireless radio operator to break codes and

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Speaker 1: to avoid detection because Nazis had posters everywhere like where's

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Speaker 1: the lady with the limp? The woman with the limp.

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Speaker 1: She disguised herself as an elderly milk maid and she

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Speaker 1: would just kind of like shuffle around. Some people couldn't

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Speaker 1: tell she was limping, and she'd wear these really big

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Speaker 1: skirts so that no one could tell she was limping,

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Speaker 1: and she could hide things in her skirt and she

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Speaker 1: could you help the parachute drops with supplies get in

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Speaker 1: for the resistance fighters and she was reporting German movement.

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Speaker 1: She was so cool. Yeah, she armed and trained three

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Speaker 1: battalions of French resistance fighters as D Day was approaching

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Speaker 1: and listen to this. In her final report to headquarters,

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Speaker 1: Hall stated that her team had destroyed four bridges, derailed

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Speaker 1: freight trains, severed a key rail one in multiple places,

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Speaker 1: and downed telephone lines. And they were also credited with

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Speaker 1: killing hundred and fifty Germans and capturing five hundred more,

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Speaker 1: all with Virginia Hall and her old trusty Cuthbert fake

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Speaker 1: leg Yeah, and you know, they wanted to give her

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Speaker 1: all these awards and recognize her first service, but she

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Speaker 1: was like no, you know, she kind of recognized that

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Speaker 1: that was not what a spy was supposed to do.

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Speaker 1: Spies do not get the glory. Spies fade away. And

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Speaker 1: that's why her name has come up a lot in

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Speaker 1: recent years because they've just not been awarding all her

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Speaker 1: awards to her family and she was decorated so many times,

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Speaker 1: but she is only one of many. Now, one household

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Speaker 1: name that you would associate more with the kitchen than

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Speaker 1: with spy rings is Julia Child. She during World War Two,

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Speaker 1: she worked with the Office of Strategic Services, which was

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Speaker 1: a predecessor to the c I A. And she worked

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Speaker 1: on cooking up cooking up a shark repellent for explosives

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Speaker 1: on ships in World War Two because the problem was

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Speaker 1: the sharks would butt up against these explosives and then

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Speaker 1: prematurely detonate them. Whoops. Inconvenient, Yeah, a little inconvenient. So

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Speaker 1: she helped figure out a way to to cope these

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Speaker 1: these explosives in shark repelling chemicals. Pretty cool, Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: she makes a killers tofflay too. What a What all? Lead? Chris?

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Speaker 1: And can I tell you about some of my favorite

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Speaker 1: Civil War spies? Yeah, because I am fascinated by a

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Speaker 1: couple of as in particular that I want to talk about.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with Elizabeth van lou a spy for the Union.

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Speaker 1: She lived in Richmond, but she was a un sympathizer,

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Speaker 1: believe that slavery was wrong, and uh so she she

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Speaker 1: took about spying to to take care of that. And

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Speaker 1: the way she would get most of her information is

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Speaker 1: she would pretend to be crazy a great disguise, Like

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Speaker 1: everyone called her crazy Bet because um, you know, she

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Speaker 1: would dress, you know, unkempt, and she would um just

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Speaker 1: kind of muttered herself as she walked around town. So

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Speaker 1: everyone thought she was just you know, off, you know,

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Speaker 1: you kind of start to ignore those people she was

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Speaker 1: on a period or something, that she was insane. They

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Speaker 1: could be synonyms to some people, but whatever. Um so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: everyone is not suspecting all crazy Bet. She's just the

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Speaker 1: town's crazy lady. But meanwhile she's walking around town eavesdropping

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Speaker 1: on all the soldiers who were stationed there, and she

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Speaker 1: sends the information back and when people found out she

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Speaker 1: wasn't crazy, they actually made them quite quite mad obviously.

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Speaker 1: And she, you know, because she believes slavery was wrong,

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Speaker 1: she was freeing all. She would buy slaves and free

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Speaker 1: them immediately. But she made one good friend in a

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Speaker 1: in a former slave named Mary Bowser. And Mary Bowser,

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Speaker 1: just as Crazy Bet was pretending to be crazy, Mary

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Speaker 1: bows pretended to be illiterate and stupid, when in fact

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Speaker 1: she could read and she was quite intelligent. And so,

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Speaker 1: you know, crazy Bet goes to Jefferson Davis, president of the

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Speaker 1: the Confederacy, and says, hey, I got a good servant

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Speaker 1: for you if you want one. Uh, why don't you

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Speaker 1: want to take on this Mary Bowser? And uh so,

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Speaker 1: Mary Bowser is walking around Jefferson Davis's home, pretending to

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Speaker 1: be illiterate but reading all the documents he leaves on

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Speaker 1: his desk and reporting back. So uh, pretty too, pretty good.

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Speaker 1: Ruses to get some information being stupid and being crazy,

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Speaker 1: But when that won't work, you've got to turn to

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Speaker 1: some disguises of men. Yeah, this was um, I think

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Speaker 1: you're about to talk about one possible ancestor of yours

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Speaker 1: who went to great and kind of controversial lengths to

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Speaker 1: disguise herself because she actually darkened her skin so that

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Speaker 1: she could pass as a black man. Yes, I was

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Speaker 1: thrilled to see my last name pop up in the

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Speaker 1: list of great spies with Sarah Edmonds. Uh. And you know,

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Speaker 1: her father was always disappointed she wasn't a boy. So

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Speaker 1: I don't know if this is what led her to

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Speaker 1: take up cross dressing, as her disguise might have something

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Speaker 1: to do with it. But she wants to fight the war.

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Speaker 1: She wants to fight for the Union, so she dresses

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Speaker 1: as a man and takes the name Frank Thompson and

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Speaker 1: goes and fights in the army. And uh, then she

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Speaker 1: gets the opportunity to be a spy. While she's being

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Speaker 1: old Frank Thompson. So that's when she takes on this

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Speaker 1: cover of a former slave named Cuff, and she goes

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Speaker 1: south and gets a job and just keeps her eyes

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Speaker 1: and ears open and reports back all this information for

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Speaker 1: the Union Army. So um, even after the war ended,

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Speaker 1: she she kept getting disguises and she apparently just really

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Speaker 1: liked dressing as a man to do her spying. But

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Speaker 1: you know, whatever gets the information, it worked for her. Now,

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Speaker 1: we have offered up many wonderful examples of American female spies,

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Speaker 1: but to close, we got to talk about Mota Hai,

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Speaker 1: probably the most famous spy, even though some people aren't

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Speaker 1: even sure whether she was a spy. Yeah, and and

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Speaker 1: Stuffy miss in history class does have a whole episode

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Speaker 1: on Mota Harre, So if you want more on her,

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Speaker 1: you should go over and check that out. But let's

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Speaker 1: just let's let's give him a little, a little tid bit.

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Speaker 1: So during World War One, Mata Harri, who has uh

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Speaker 1: you know, she's not born Mada Hard, but we're just

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Speaker 1: gonna call it Manhari because that's her exotic dancing name,

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Speaker 1: which she takes up after she divorces her husband. And

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Speaker 1: she becomes quite a sensation. Her sensual performances became the

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Speaker 1: attraction of major European cities, and men became obsessed with her.

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Speaker 1: They just all wanted to come see her in court

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Speaker 1: her and woo her affections. And among those men were

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Speaker 1: many high ranking French and German military officers. And as

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Speaker 1: World War One proceeds, some people became suspicious that Mada

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Speaker 1: Harry was spying for the Germans, so France puts her

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Speaker 1: on trial. France puts her on trial. The charges are

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Speaker 1: never proven, but nevertheless she's convicted of espionage and executed

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Speaker 1: by a firing squad in nineteen seventeen. But listen to

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Speaker 1: this little story. She refused to be blindfolded, and she

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Speaker 1: smiled and blew a kiss to the firing squad as

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Speaker 1: the fatal shots were fired. And I just think that's

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Speaker 1: such good, a good lesson for all of us who

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Speaker 1: may one day face a firing squad. Hopefully that will

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Speaker 1: be none of us. But if you're gonna be remembered,

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Speaker 1: you gotta do something kind of crazy. And if you're

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Speaker 1: going to go into exotic dancing, be as good as

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Speaker 1: as you as you can be, so you'll be courted

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Speaker 1: by royalty, military, high ranking officers. If you are trying

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Speaker 1: to dissuade a daughter or you know a friend from

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Speaker 1: exag dancing, maybe tell her that she might be convicted

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Speaker 1: of spying. So many cautionary tales in this story. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's no world war going on, so that one might

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Speaker 1: not have as much argument, might not have as much

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Speaker 1: pol but nevertheless, mona Harry, super cool story. Lots of

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Speaker 1: these spy stories are really cool stories, and so we

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Speaker 1: only highlighted a few. We love to hear more from

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Speaker 1: you guys about your favorite spies. Everyone's got one trading cards.

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Speaker 1: Oh and again a James Bond movie for Molly to watch,

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Speaker 1: because come on, people, it's it's a search, yes and

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Speaker 1: see and James Bond movie. Oh goodness. Um, yeah, so

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Speaker 1: let us know your thoughts mom stuff at how so

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Speaker 1: works dot com. You can also leave all the movies

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Speaker 1: and discuss James James Bond related things on Facebook or

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Speaker 1: on Twitter because we check all of those diligently. And

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Speaker 1: right now I will read a comment from Helena. It

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Speaker 1: was about the podcast about whether it costs more to

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Speaker 1: be a man of woman when we talked about shaving cream,

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Speaker 1: and she writes, my sister, and I've always used the

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Speaker 1: men shaved john is there's which are cheaper. However, as

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Speaker 1: Barbara's all said, and you send the podcast, they will

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Speaker 1: rest in the shower and leave rings on the side

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Speaker 1: of your bath to have their tricky to remove. This

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Speaker 1: is easily solved, though I put duct tape around the

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Speaker 1: bottom of my can. It doesn't look very classy, but

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Speaker 1: who's looking right? Using men stuff must becoming more popular, however,

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Speaker 1: as Real Simple magazine recently recommended putting on an old

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Speaker 1: beer cancouzy on your shaved can to keep it from

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Speaker 1: making those rest rings. My legs may smell like a

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Speaker 1: barber shop quartet, but cheaper wins out for me. Very

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Speaker 1: cool tip. I've got an email here from Eden in Norway,

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Speaker 1: and Eden writes in response to our Royal Weddings podcasts

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Speaker 1: on Prince William and Kate Middleton getting married that if

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Speaker 1: you want a truly modern royal couple, look no further

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Speaker 1: than the Norwegian Crown Prince Hike on Magnus apologies for

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Speaker 1: most pronciations and his Crown Princess met Merit. Not only

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Speaker 1: was she a commoner, she was a single parent. Also,

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Speaker 1: it is their daughter that is next in line after

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Speaker 1: crown and high com because the Norwegian law of succession

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Speaker 1: has already been changed so both boys and girls can

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Speaker 1: inherit the throne. Perhaps the royal conservatives of the United

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Speaker 1: Kingdom should lighten up just a little bit. Oh, I

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Speaker 1: like this little Norway UK little poking, kind of like

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Speaker 1: Canada in the US. That said, most people here in

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Speaker 1: the UK don't seem to care about Kate Milton's background.

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Speaker 1: And I think the general consensus is that they're good

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Speaker 1: to match. But I mean, let's read between the lines.

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Speaker 1: Norway has gotta going on. It's what I'm here. And well,

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Speaker 1: I mean we did do that podcast about gender gender

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Speaker 1: roles in Norway. Finlin, Yeah, other country. And it is

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Speaker 1: cool that the crown will pass down to the sub child. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I was reading a little bit more about this

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Speaker 1: norweg Gander family. Very scandalous. Don't you have to get

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Speaker 1: all your your British news from I mean all your

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Speaker 1: royal news from the Brits. Look in the Norway Norway.

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Speaker 1: So if you have any emails to send our way

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Speaker 1: again our email addresses mom stuff at house stuff works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Head on over to Facebook two and like

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Speaker 1: and again. You can follow us on Twitter as well

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Speaker 1: at Mom's Stuff podcast, and as always, you can read

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Speaker 1: our blog during the week, It's Stuff Mom Never Told

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Speaker 1: You from how stuff works dot com for moralness and

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