Speaker 1: Y'all can't help but love an adorer. She's an author, reporter,
Speaker 1: TV producer, true crime legend. She's hosted her own show,
Speaker 1: True Crime with Aphrodite Jones. She has covered trials high
Speaker 1: profile like Scott Peterson, Michael Jackson, BTK, Dennis Raider, and
Speaker 1: Honey when she's not writing movie scripts and doing fabulous
Speaker 1: parties and crime con and different things. Always stunning for Lawless.
Speaker 1: I've never seen her look even half, not completely put together.
Speaker 2: Come on now, Cheryl, not sure the truth?
Speaker 1: That is absolutely the truth. You're one of the main
Speaker 1: reasons this ain't video, it's voice only. I ain't gonna
Speaker 1: be compared to you looking crazy.
Speaker 2: Who love you, Cheryl?
Speaker 1: I love you, and listen, we are not going to
Speaker 1: waste any time because you and I have got to
Speaker 1: talk about a case that when I first heard about it,
Speaker 1: it took me a second because I'm like, how how
Speaker 1: did this even happen? There should be so many layers
Speaker 1: of protection for everybody on a movie set, y'all. Of
Speaker 1: course we're gonna talk about Alec Baldwin and some other folks,
Speaker 1: but that's how everybody knows this case, and you know, Aphrodity,
Speaker 1: here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna let you tell
Speaker 1: us where we're gonna start, and I'm gonna follow you.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna let you drive this train. Because there's so
Speaker 1: many lawsuits and people. Everybody's sueing everybody, and some people
Speaker 1: get in charge, some people not getting charge, some people
Speaker 1: making deals. You almost need to flow charte. So you
Speaker 1: just you just take it away, all right.
Speaker 2: So first I want to say that in the history
Speaker 2: of filmmaking, there has never been a live round of
Speaker 2: ammunition on a set. I have talked to everybody on
Speaker 2: my Hollywood people. I've talked to prop masters. I mean,
Speaker 2: I've been around the Rosie here just to see. One
Speaker 2: of my friends, who who has his own studio, talked
Speaker 2: about the fact that he and he had his wife
Speaker 2: was his first wife was murdered. This is a guy
Speaker 2: who carries a gun in general. Okay. He told me
Speaker 2: that the other time there was ever a real live
Speaker 2: AMMA on any set was when he not on set.
Speaker 2: But even within the scope of where krinbya set was
Speaker 2: where he had a separate building, where he had a
Speaker 2: completely separate situation where he kept his own guns. It
Speaker 2: wasn't a part of the set. It wasn't part of
Speaker 2: what the props were going to be with them, So
Speaker 2: that was that's what I've heard around the block. Now
Speaker 2: come to this case and let's talk about how these
Speaker 2: bullets got onto that set. We have never had anybody
Speaker 2: shot on a set before because there's never been live ammo.
Speaker 2: We had two deaths based on Black's being pulled okay,
Speaker 2: which have a violent discharge of their own and can
Speaker 2: cause harm and did in two cases. But I mean,
Speaker 2: what were you thinking as a cop how this happened
Speaker 2: or why this happened?
Speaker 1: Listen. I was so stunned about it because my idea
Speaker 1: of Hollywood, none of it's real. That's not really. The
Speaker 1: Empire state building, that's not really. A bomb, that's not really.
Speaker 1: Even the love scenes ain't real. So how in the world,
Speaker 1: because you know, you think, okay, you know, the car
Speaker 1: jumping the bridge and explosions and people getting shot, it's
Speaker 1: never real. You know, they've got the blood bags, they've
Speaker 1: got all this stuff to make it look that way.
Speaker 1: And to me, here's one of the first things that
Speaker 1: did cross my mind when I first heard it. I
Speaker 1: was like, how is this possible? There's no way, there's
Speaker 1: no possible way that anybody took a live round to
Speaker 1: a movie set. The next thing I thought about is
Speaker 1: in my job. My police department is right next to
Speaker 1: the airport in Atlanta, as you know, has become like
Speaker 1: Hollywood of the South. They're making movies all over Atlanta.
Speaker 1: Now we have actually had prop people come into my
Speaker 1: police department where they call me as the evidence person
Speaker 1: and the crime scene investigator because they want to self
Speaker 1: confiscate weapons. They want to just give them to us
Speaker 1: because they don't want to get on an airplane with
Speaker 1: them and they don't need them any longer. But even
Speaker 1: that shocked me that these weapons are real. I thought
Speaker 1: everything was like three D or plastic or made to
Speaker 1: look I had no idea. I had no idea for.
Speaker 2: The most part. You know, a lot of that is
Speaker 2: to make it look. But as time has evolved and
Speaker 2: with the HD, and you know that with realism being
Speaker 2: so important to filmmakers on and always has been. In
Speaker 2: terms of prop masters, you know, you see something from
Speaker 2: the City Extige in the seventies. Every single thing is
Speaker 2: in puri you know, down to the chewing gum, down
Speaker 2: to the bowls that they eat out of in a
Speaker 2: seventies set, you know, you get that old pirate stuff
Speaker 2: coming up. They're very, very particular about keeping things as
Speaker 2: real as possible. Now when it comes to weapons, they
Speaker 2: do use real weapons on sets, but they are only
Speaker 2: filled with dummies and occasionally with blanks when they have
Speaker 2: to actually do the scene rather than rehearse it, so
Speaker 2: that there's some smoke that comes out of the gun,
Speaker 2: but in no circumstance ken that kills someone on There
Speaker 2: were two instances I had referred to. One was a
Speaker 2: young man who took the gun to his head in
Speaker 2: a Russian roulette scene and it had a blank in it.
Speaker 2: He didn't know that and it killed him. And the
Speaker 2: other was Bruce Lee's son who also was killed in
Speaker 2: a freakish way by a blank. That's it in the
Speaker 2: whole history of Hollywood filmmaking. So again, not live bullets. Yes,
Speaker 2: real gun, but not live bullets. So how did this
Speaker 2: bullet get there? And I have a story that I
Speaker 2: want to tell about that that I learned in watching
Speaker 2: the Alec Baldwin trial. How familiar are you with Belle Reid.
Speaker 1: I know about him and I know that's how she
Speaker 1: got in the business, but I don't know enough about
Speaker 1: him to you know, tell a story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let me. I'm gonna give a little backdrop here.
Speaker 2: So fell Read has been in the business for sixty
Speaker 2: years and he is a legend in that field with
Speaker 2: all with propmaster and then became, you know, an armorer.
Speaker 2: I mean, this man could twirl a gun around sixteen
Speaker 2: ways from Sunday and I knew what he's doing, knows
Speaker 2: what he's doing best of the business. It just so
Speaker 2: happens that bell Read was working with another gentleman who
Speaker 2: I'm just going to call a concerned citizen, and let's say,
Speaker 2: by the name of Troy Teskey. I don't knows you've
Speaker 2: heard that name in the trial, But Troy Tesky and
Speaker 2: Phil Reid were down in Texas working on the set
Speaker 2: of eighteen eighty three. You know what I'm talking about,
Speaker 2: the prequel to Yellow Sculling. Yep, right, So that's a
Speaker 2: big Western it's back in time, it's eighteen eighty three.
Speaker 2: There's lots of guns, lots of action with guns. And
Speaker 2: what they decided to do the filmmakers wanted to get
Speaker 2: certain people of the cast together and have them learn
Speaker 2: about real guns and shoot real guns and shoot real
Speaker 2: bullets and take lessons in it so that they could
Speaker 2: quote bond with each other, but also so that they
Speaker 2: would have know what it's like, so that when they
Speaker 2: go to act the scene they know how to perhaps
Speaker 2: react to the gun or you know, what the violence
Speaker 2: of it is. So that's where the bullets were. The
Speaker 2: bullets were, at least from what I can detern here
Speaker 2: piece together. The man Troit Teskey has said publicly that
Speaker 2: about the fact that they built this, they went to
Speaker 2: a separate area of the of the property and created
Speaker 2: a you know, a shooting race that was entirely safe
Speaker 2: with the with the backstop and everything needed to be.
Speaker 2: And there were a few cast members there and they
Speaker 2: did the practice round shooting real ammunition. They had the lessons,
Speaker 2: they did what they did, and when it was over,
Speaker 2: the Tesky, this man holds film reads ammunition for him
Speaker 2: at his warehouse in Albuquerque. So that's been the way
Speaker 2: they've done things. Like you say, Atlanta is the Hollywood
Speaker 2: of the South, well, Texas in that area, you know, Montana,
Speaker 2: Arizona kind of the the what the Hollywood of the Midwest, Okay,
Speaker 2: And so he's got his ammo there with his buddy
Speaker 2: for many years now that and munition gets driven to Albuquerque,
Speaker 2: and then somehow another the person who goes to get
Speaker 2: the ammunition who has driven it is somebody evolved in
Speaker 2: the set of Rust. Okay, obviously how did he get there?
Speaker 2: So there's another character in this story whose name is
Speaker 2: Seth Kenny, and Seth Kenny is the person who went
Speaker 2: to retrieve the ammunition. He actually had his assistant go
Speaker 2: and get it, and she was on the phone with
Speaker 2: her directing her what to do. And he got that ammunition.
Speaker 2: She brought it to him and his prop warehouse, and
Speaker 2: he never really checked it, and he says he did.
Speaker 2: He testifies that he did, but obviously he did not
Speaker 2: because live bullets wound up on the set of Rust.
Speaker 2: Why am I saying this? Why it's important is that
Speaker 2: first of all, no one could have figured out how
Speaker 2: that happened. And it's only recently that we did tre
Speaker 2: this out when it was Baldwin's trial was on in
Speaker 2: the first few days. This person, Troy Tesky, is the
Speaker 2: one who brought a bag of ammunition to Hanniguichier's Read's trial.
Speaker 2: He believed he was going to be called as a witness.
Speaker 2: He brought a bag of ammunition that matched the bullets
Speaker 2: that were found at the scene and the bullet that
Speaker 2: killed Helena. Hutchins that that bullet the man the bullet
Speaker 2: and other six other bullets al tonal six bullets on
Speaker 2: set matched these bullets precisely. So he was shocked because
Speaker 2: he had come to the prosecutor, the special prosecutor Morrisey,
Speaker 2: and said, look, I have bullets. They match. I'm going
Speaker 2: to bring them in. I want you to test them,
Speaker 2: and she ignored them for a year, didn't want anything
Speaker 2: to do with it. So when he gets to the trial,
Speaker 2: he realizes he's not going to be called as a witnesses,
Speaker 2: that the preliminary is not going to be called. They
Speaker 2: don't hear about him. He now watches the trial. He's
Speaker 2: got the bullets in his storage, in his car or wherever,
Speaker 2: and he walks into the Santa Fe Police department and
Speaker 2: hands over it says, I have evidence I want to
Speaker 2: give to you here. It is just like people here
Speaker 2: you guns. This guy handed over a bag of bullets
Speaker 2: and we heard testimony and this is where the trial went.
Speaker 2: Arrived for Alec Baldwin from the CSI officer who accepted
Speaker 2: those bullets. Yep, I saw that video, okay, And that's
Speaker 2: where this thing fell apart with Alec Baldwin, because now
Speaker 2: you have this woman testifying that, yes, I was handed
Speaker 2: bullets and what did you do with the bullets? Well,
Speaker 2: I filed them. I put a document and I documented there.
Speaker 2: What do you mean documented? And it turns out we
Speaker 2: discover she was told by somebody higher up to document
Speaker 2: this and file it under a separate case, not under
Speaker 2: the rust case. Right. So now come to find out
Speaker 2: when the when the offense attorneys hear this, they realized
Speaker 2: she's hiding others. This is something should have been tested. Certainly,
Speaker 2: the defense needed to test it. This could have explained
Speaker 2: and would explained most likely how the bullets got on set,
Speaker 2: because one of the things that the prosecutor was alleging
Speaker 2: in the in the gutieris Read case was that she
Speaker 2: brought those bullets onto the set. Not just that she
Speaker 2: was negligent in the way that things were handled, but
Speaker 2: that she brought them on the set. Well, it looks
Speaker 2: to me like Seth Kenny is the one who was
Speaker 2: negligent there in terms of those bullets getting to the set.
Speaker 2: And if if you might recall or might've seen in
Speaker 2: commentary Seth Kenny was helping the law enforcement when they
Speaker 2: were looking at things, trying to explain to them what
Speaker 2: prop guns were like, what prop bullets were like, but
Speaker 2: dummies were like. He had so much involvement there which
Speaker 2: he had no business and involvement that it was like
Speaker 2: he protests too much, if you understand I'm saying, I believe,
Speaker 2: truly believed that he was busy trying to point fingers
Speaker 2: at anyone he could, this prop master, Jeff Kenny, in
Speaker 2: order that he wasn't the one who brought the bullets
Speaker 2: there or got the bullets there. I think I think
Speaker 2: it's been proven, at least to my satisfaction, that this
Speaker 2: is how they got there. They got there through sept
Speaker 2: Kenny's negligence and not testing those bullets, by having those
Speaker 2: bullets come from a set from Texas which belonged to
Speaker 2: THELL Reid. It's ironic that those were fell Reads bullets, right,
Speaker 2: because it's his daughter who winds up in prison because
Speaker 2: of those bullets. And I think the reason that Karen
Speaker 2: Lawressey didn't want to analyze or tall or have anything
Speaker 2: to do with the bullets is because She knew that
Speaker 2: Troy Tesky was a friend of thell Read's, so she
Speaker 2: probably thought this could be a setup. Again, this is
Speaker 2: me just you know, coming up with my own theories here.
Speaker 1: I'm not.
Speaker 2: I'm just guessing here. I know that she was aware
Speaker 2: that Phil Reid was friends with the person who handed
Speaker 2: in those bullets, tro Tesky. Bottom line boom. She hid
Speaker 2: the most important evidence, the bullets that could and did
Speaker 2: match actually was discovered, the bullet that killed Helena Hutchins.
Speaker 2: There's no justice here. She's out for blood. She's out
Speaker 2: for making a name for herself as well, I might add,
Speaker 2: I mean, whoever heard of Karrie Morrissey before she was
Speaker 2: appointed as a special prosecutor. Here, she's going to be
Speaker 2: on TV. It's going to be her O. J. Simpson moment,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, the whole world is watching. This
Speaker 2: has never happened in the universe before. Here's an a
Speaker 2: list actor Alec Bull, who knew mean you say his name,
Speaker 2: there's no question he's in a lister. And he's also
Speaker 2: somebody known for problems with you know, violence, and you know,
Speaker 2: for that crazy voicemail he left for his daughter calling
Speaker 2: her page and all this other stuff. I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: not saying that he was beating people up, but he's
Speaker 2: certainly gone after some paparazzi. In essence, though, what I
Speaker 2: want to say is this, she called Alec Baldwin an
Speaker 2: arrogant ahole. Okay, we found that out. We also found
Speaker 2: out she called them other curse words. She hated her,
Speaker 2: and she wanted to get him. And as soon as
Speaker 2: it turned out that the FBI was able to establish
Speaker 2: that the gun that was used on set had to
Speaker 2: have a trigger pulled in order to fire, she went
Speaker 2: back after Alec Baldwin. Now because you know, I had
Speaker 2: been dropped. And then you know, he was cleared or
Speaker 2: so called, and then later on he was indicted again
Speaker 2: by this special prosecutor. So you know, I want to
Speaker 2: ask you something. Did you ever think that Alec Baldwin
Speaker 2: did not pull the trigger?
Speaker 1: I never once thought he didn't pull the trigger. He
Speaker 1: had to have pulled the trigger.
Speaker 2: And that's that's what I think, And every expert I
Speaker 2: have looked to watch searched out says the same thing.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine how you would have the gun cock
Speaker 2: back like that and with your finger on the trigger.
Speaker 2: And there are photographs of him, by the way, with
Speaker 2: his finger is listen on that trigger.
Speaker 1: Here's the deal, the number one rule when you're teaching
Speaker 1: a young person or a rookie or anybody, you never
Speaker 1: point that gun in another person. Ever, you don't do it.
Speaker 1: And again in Hollywood, there's a way that it looks
Speaker 1: like they're maybe standing in front of each other, but
Speaker 1: you can do that camera angle where they're not. Really,
Speaker 1: there's no reason for this to have ever happened. I
Speaker 1: don't care who you are, whether your grandpa taught you
Speaker 1: to shoot, or a drill sergeant in the army, or
Speaker 1: somebody get a police academy. That statement came out of
Speaker 1: their mouth. Don't ever point it at another person. And
Speaker 1: my dad even told us there's no such thing as
Speaker 1: an unloaded gun. You don't ever act like it's unloaded.
Speaker 1: You don't treat it like it's unloaded. It's always loaded.
Speaker 1: So with that said, he should have never pointed that
Speaker 1: weapon at Miss Hutchins.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, But again now here you have the special prosecutor
Speaker 2: who obviously thinks that way, you know, and now we
Speaker 2: find out, oh no, he had to have pulled the trigger.
Speaker 2: So she goes after him. Now under the auspices that
Speaker 2: now it is being tried as only an actor, not
Speaker 2: as an actor or producer. They didn't find that out
Speaker 2: until the judge made that were ruling right before the
Speaker 2: trial started. That was a big hit against the prosecution
Speaker 2: because had Ellen Baldwin been tried as a producer, Tiger
Speaker 2: stam because I know Hollywood Land pretty well. I've had
Speaker 2: three books mating two movies and etc. When the a
Speaker 2: star gets a producer credit on a film then not
Speaker 2: really producing the film. They're just getting extra money and
Speaker 2: having the name on as a producer. They're not literally producing.
Speaker 2: Producers are in back rooms and you know, in sound
Speaker 2: rooms and rooms with equipment. They're putting stuff together. They're
Speaker 2: putting budgets together and all of that prior to the
Speaker 2: you know, prior to the set rolling and all of that.
Speaker 2: They're not He was not We know in Hollywood that
Speaker 2: you're not actually producing. But he still had the title
Speaker 2: of producer, So technically I don't care if he's notelf producing.
Speaker 2: He is listed as a producer on that on that
Speaker 2: film as well as the Store, and in the role
Speaker 2: of producer very different than an actor handling a gun.
Speaker 2: And I'll tell you why because producers are responsible for
Speaker 2: the budget. And this goes directly to Alec Baldswin, even
Speaker 2: though he's not a producer, so called Alec than was
Speaker 2: making a vanity film. This is all about. He's sixty
Speaker 2: six or sixty four years old and he wants to,
Speaker 2: you know, be the cowboy again. He wants to be
Speaker 2: in the scene. He wants to be the star. And
Speaker 2: this is going to be great. But it's going to
Speaker 2: be a five million dollar film and it's going to
Speaker 2: be done on a shoe string. And he who do
Speaker 2: you think was going to collect the most money out
Speaker 2: of that whole budget? Alec Bawl, He dos that you that?
Speaker 1: Yep, let me ask you this because I'm so grateful
Speaker 1: that you have that you know, insight, you know, because
Speaker 1: of your books being made to movies and working with
Speaker 1: different actors and producers. The one thing that stood out
Speaker 1: to me when when everything was really coming out is
Speaker 1: the first assistant director. Now again I don't know much
Speaker 1: about Hollywood. I know a director says action cut tape, whatever.
Speaker 1: What does the first assistant director do? And the reason
Speaker 1: I'm asking is we were told that David Halls is
Speaker 1: one that handed him the gun and first hollered out
Speaker 1: cold gun, which means no live, Amma.
Speaker 2: It is not unheard of that an assis director will
Speaker 2: hand somebody abrop and even a gun. It's not that
Speaker 2: is not unheard of. However, the protocol is that the
Speaker 2: armorer is supposed to be in the room, that the
Speaker 2: armorer is the one to be handling the gun in
Speaker 2: all circumstances. So this those two again the sloppiness of
Speaker 2: the set, and what I was getting at was that
Speaker 2: the there was a there was a fast, quick and
Speaker 2: dirty sense of this is going to get done in
Speaker 2: this film, and it didn't matter rules, regulations, didn't matter
Speaker 2: about safety. And I say this because there was a
Speaker 2: situation on the set of Rest where the crew was
Speaker 2: being mistreated and they felt that this that that the
Speaker 2: UH set was unsafe, that the safe circumstances was unsafe.
Speaker 2: Why do I say this, First of all, somebody who
Speaker 2: wrote a text saying that two guns had gone off
Speaker 2: to the two guns had gone off prop guns at
Speaker 2: some point and they have felt that things were unsafe.
Speaker 2: This is not on set. It's in and around the set, okay,
Speaker 2: behind the scenes. That text is there, that email is there.
Speaker 2: We saw it early on before the trial started. There's
Speaker 2: another issue here. The crew, a Union crew on this
Speaker 2: set were from Albuquerque. Now Santa Fe is about fifty
Speaker 2: miles from Albuquerque, I know it well, well know both
Speaker 2: cities well. They were originally contracted to do twelve to
Speaker 2: thirteen hour days and be housed in a hotel in
Speaker 2: Santa Fe. However, when the films actually started rolling, that
Speaker 2: crew were told, oh no, we're not putting you up
Speaker 2: in a hotel. You got to drive back and forth
Speaker 2: from Albuquerque. And it turned out one crew member was
Speaker 2: sleeping in his car. Because if you work a twelve
Speaker 2: hour day, think of it. You're working from six in
Speaker 2: the morning till six at night, maybe seven. Now you
Speaker 2: go to drive fifty two miles I was home, and
Speaker 2: then turn around at five o'clock in the morning the
Speaker 2: next day and drive fifty two miles back. It's completely
Speaker 2: unsafe if you're doing this for weeks on end. And
Speaker 2: the crew was demanding, not only making complaints about unsafe
Speaker 2: things going on on the set, but also saying, we
Speaker 2: can't do this anymore. This isn't what we've bargained for,
Speaker 2: this isn't right. We're not being treated right. So then
Speaker 2: you walked off to the set Cheryl that morning October
Speaker 2: twenty first, okay, twenty twenty one, then walked off the
Speaker 2: set because of the unsafe practices.
Speaker 1: That's insane. And see, here's the thing that keeps going
Speaker 1: through my mind. In order for mister Holls to have
Speaker 1: a prop there to grab and again, y'all, I don't
Speaker 1: know nothing about movies, but I've heard people say that,
Speaker 1: like when they're working with dogs, there's only certain times
Speaker 1: a day. You've got to make sure they're not in
Speaker 1: the outdoor heat. You got to make sure they have
Speaker 1: food and water. You've got to make sure they've got
Speaker 1: plenty of time to rest, and you know, be walked
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. The same for children, I've
Speaker 1: heard all this stuff. They've got to still go to school,
Speaker 1: they've got to do these things. You can't overwork them.
Speaker 1: They are allowed to have a parent there whatever. And
Speaker 1: as far as like even a dog handler, I thought
Speaker 1: they had to be right there with the animal, Well
Speaker 1: they do, okay, but there's not somebody there with a
Speaker 1: freaking gun.
Speaker 2: Well that's just it. So there you have it. Okay.
Speaker 2: So now going back to the chronology, here, the crew
Speaker 2: walks off the set and is replaced by a non
Speaker 2: union crew the same day that this shooting happens. So
Speaker 2: you have people that aren't really familiar with anybody that
Speaker 2: you know who knows what's going You have footage that
Speaker 2: the Special Prosecutor aired when we started watching the trials,
Speaker 2: showing out falling in other areas, pointing the gun, using
Speaker 2: it as a pointer. I don't know if you saw
Speaker 2: that footage. Did you watch part of that trial as
Speaker 2: it was going off, yes, right, and it looks you know,
Speaker 2: he's mister cowboy, mister tea, mister macho, but with an
Speaker 2: actual gun in his hand. And like you said, as
Speaker 2: an officer of the walk, you do not to the fence.
Speaker 2: I mean, if it's not plastic, you better know if
Speaker 2: be playing with it.
Speaker 1: Yep, I'm telling you. My dad was so strict about it.
Speaker 1: He even said, like even the little guns that shoot
Speaker 1: the little the little things that have the plastic thing
Speaker 1: that you shoot it sticks to the wall, little suction
Speaker 1: cup thing. But he even said, even that gun, if
Speaker 1: you look down in the barrel, the spring could come
Speaker 1: out and destroy your eye. Like you just don't fool
Speaker 1: with a gun of any kind if it's got a
Speaker 1: barrel and a trigger. Forget it, you don't point it
Speaker 1: at anybody. And again, no such thing as at beging unloaded.
Speaker 1: So to me, you know, you hear about how Guitaris
Speaker 1: Gutiras and you think, okay, well she is gonna file
Speaker 1: a lawsuit herself against the AMMO people.
Speaker 2: Well no she doesn't. Yeah, but okay, so there's a
Speaker 2: whole entanglement. You're right about all that's going on around here,
Speaker 2: with civil suits and liability and all of that.
Speaker 1: Oh, Entanglement's a good word, sugar, because it's a mess.
Speaker 2: It is. What I find interesting is neither of them
Speaker 2: took responsibility for what happened in any way. In other words,
Speaker 2: there was no Yeah, they were sorry and they were shaken.
Speaker 2: But you know, I don't know if you've noticed, but
Speaker 2: Alec Baldwin, he was on the phone. You see that
Speaker 2: iconic picture of him hunched over in the desert there,
Speaker 2: you know, And we find out he's talking to his wife.
Speaker 2: His concern while Helena Hutchins is in the hospital, she
Speaker 2: was brought, she was helicoptered out, she died in the hospital,
Speaker 2: she was still alive. His concern is Wayne's family. Now
Speaker 2: it's throwing plans for his family to come out and
Speaker 2: see him, and next thing you know, he's planning a
Speaker 2: vacation and lands somewhere I don't know, Maine, New Hampshire,
Speaker 2: wrever the hell he went to run away from it all.
Speaker 2: He had no concern about her. Now to me, that
Speaker 2: is the most horrifying thing about all of this. Yes,
Speaker 2: it was an accident. Clearly it was an accident. I mean,
Speaker 2: nobody ever thought there was going to be a real
Speaker 2: bullet in any gun on any set, because there never
Speaker 2: has been one. But still he pulled the trigger, and
Speaker 2: you know, his commentary is that actually the cinematographer was
Speaker 2: asking him to point the trigger at her. Now, there's
Speaker 2: other people who testified to this. So this cinematographer is young.
Speaker 2: She was new ish. I mean she was, you know,
Speaker 2: getting her career built up. Her husband was there on
Speaker 2: set as well. She apparently wandered a particular scene where
Speaker 2: you're looking down the barrel of the gun, and that's
Speaker 2: why she had Baldwin pointing the gun at her, which
Speaker 2: her face is next to the camera. I don't get it.
Speaker 2: I mean, that sounds crazy to me that she would
Speaker 2: direct him that way. But you know, there's no calling
Speaker 2: for what art says. You know, people in the arts
Speaker 2: don't understand the law. They don't understand bullets and guns necessarily, right.
Speaker 2: So she clearly didn't get that.
Speaker 1: Memo right, because even with a dummy, something's coming out
Speaker 1: of the barrel of that gun, and it could destroy
Speaker 1: your camera. It could still injure you.
Speaker 2: Going back to Baldwin, as a producer, he cheaped out
Speaker 2: on his crew. He also cheaped out on who he
Speaker 2: hired as armorer. Okay, because this young woman, what was
Speaker 2: twenty four years old. She had only worked on one
Speaker 2: movie prior to Russ And it turns out that on
Speaker 2: the set she was working on a Nicholas Cage movie,
Speaker 2: also in the Midwest, and it was called The Old Way,
Speaker 2: she apparently fired off a gun with a blank near him,
Speaker 2: and Nicholas Cage went nuts because she's he said, she
Speaker 2: blew his ears out because you know the fired Why
Speaker 2: why do we wear those those ear sets in gun range?
Speaker 2: Its sure, because the sound of it can blow your
Speaker 2: ear jones out.
Speaker 1: I mean, this whole thing so unnecessary, one hundred preventable,
Speaker 1: should have never happened, like you said, even starting in Texas,
Speaker 1: it shouldn't have happened exactly.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: And I heard they were practicing on the set of
Speaker 1: Russ too, that they were bonding and shooting live m
Speaker 1: o knocking cans over.
Speaker 2: I think those were blanks. I did hear that in
Speaker 2: the beginning they called it plinking clink. I heard that.
Speaker 2: I did you hear anything about it coming up in
Speaker 2: trial or in Guteers's trial. However, when you hear things
Speaker 2: like that, you really start to wonder, like, how much
Speaker 2: of a old Wild West was this for these people
Speaker 2: on this set? You know, Let's have a good time,
Speaker 2: is what I'm thinking. And then there's a lot of
Speaker 2: drinking that was going on. I want to get to that.
Speaker 2: So so, but let me go back to the fact
Speaker 2: that this young woman good Cheers read was not only
Speaker 2: not only was she inexperienced all right. Not only did
Speaker 2: she only work on one movie set where she pulled
Speaker 2: a trigger out of a blank and practically blew Nicholas
Speaker 2: Cage's ear drums out, but also she had a habit
Speaker 2: of kind of posing with guns and being very on
Speaker 2: the fly with guns. She went into one of the
Speaker 2: restaurants in New Mexico with a gun on her that
Speaker 2: she had was illegal. The prosecutor started to charge her
Speaker 2: with that because she wasn't helping in any way to
Speaker 2: try to, you know, expedite situation or she was. And
Speaker 2: here's the thing, this is what gets me, Cheryl. She
Speaker 2: was drinking all throughout that filming all lots. And not
Speaker 2: only was she drinking, she was smoking. And she has
Speaker 2: a text the night before, uh the killing, where she's saying,
Speaker 2: I don't need that stuff anyway, I'll just be smoking.
Speaker 2: I'm smoking tonight. Now there's there are many people who
Speaker 2: have corroborated the fact that she smoked pot, but not
Speaker 2: only that. On the day after the killing, on the
Speaker 2: twenty first of October, Okay, twenty twenty one, Hannah gutirs
Speaker 2: Read has an acquaintance who comes over. People are staying
Speaker 2: with her because she's scared, because she's freaked out, because
Speaker 2: she's freaked out because somebody got hurt killed, and she
Speaker 2: has people staying with her. But they need to go
Speaker 2: out and get some cigarettes or whatever they need to
Speaker 2: do it. And so they call over another member of
Speaker 2: the crew who is the craft services person. And this
Speaker 2: person tested by a Gutierris's trial and her last name
Speaker 2: is Smith. I can't. The first name doesn't come to
Speaker 2: me now, but Miss Smith testified, No, I was some
Speaker 2: friends with her, but I was an acquaintance and they
Speaker 2: asked me to come over, you know. In the same
Speaker 2: they're saying it an inn in Santa Fe to just
Speaker 2: sit with her and be with her, you know, while
Speaker 2: they went Ransomarrand so while she's there, Hannah gutierists read says,
Speaker 2: can you hold something for me? Sure? What is it?
Speaker 2: She hands to Miss Smith to the Craft Services person
Speaker 2: a baggie with another baggy inside the baggy, and in
Speaker 2: that smaller baggie is a white powder substance. And it
Speaker 2: just so happens that this Craft Services crew member is
Speaker 2: a recovering addict who hasn't touched anything like that in decades.
Speaker 2: But she agreed to hold it because here's this young
Speaker 2: woman falling apart at the scene is that she's clearly
Speaker 2: she's drinking, she's who knows what, And she takes a
Speaker 2: strawholder for you, and she propably goes and throws it
Speaker 2: in the garbage can when she leaves because she can't
Speaker 2: have it around her. This the Craft Services one because
Speaker 2: it's temptation and Hannah Guziers later comes after her and says,
Speaker 2: where's my stuff? There's text with it. I mean, you
Speaker 2: can't make this stuff up.
Speaker 1: Nope. My question is, on a movie set, if there
Speaker 1: is a death, do the insurance company or anybody require
Speaker 1: any drug testing?
Speaker 2: Good question. I can't answer it. I can't imagine on
Speaker 2: those are things that haven't never happened. Really, we have
Speaker 2: never seen something like this before where there is a
Speaker 2: death with a bullet on a set, and so, you know,
Speaker 2: it's hard to say, but I know one thing. She
Speaker 2: sure didn't want the cops to find anything when they
Speaker 2: were to become maybe search your room, which so the
Speaker 2: reason why when she was there and she got more scared,
Speaker 2: she handed this off. She handed off the bag with
Speaker 2: white powder. The no one could test it. It was
Speaker 2: thrown away. But the woman who testified, the food services
Speaker 2: woman did say whether when the prosecutor asked her, let's
Speaker 2: say it was a packet of sugar, because he wanted
Speaker 2: to know what the amount of it was right by,
Speaker 2: her answer was, oh, no, it wasn't sugar. I know
Speaker 2: it wasn't sugar. I know what cocaine looks like. And
Speaker 2: then it turns out when he described how much was
Speaker 2: in there, She said, would have been like five or
Speaker 2: six packets sugar, like it wasn't a little bit