Speaker 1: Celebrity book Club.
Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Kim Katrell and I'm doing a documentary about
Speaker 2: the sexual lives of Toronto residents. We're going to talk
Speaker 2: to ten sexually active Greater Toronto residents about what turns
Speaker 2: them on, what turns them off, and what makes them climax.
Speaker 2: First up, Davis thirty four.
Speaker 1: I like when a woman gets home from work.
Speaker 2: Kira twenty nine. This thing happened to me when I
Speaker 2: was twenty eight, where I only liked guys with broad shoulders.
Speaker 2: Now I like guys with slender shoulders. I don't know
Speaker 2: what happened, but it just gets me off. Shira thirty three.
Speaker 1: I was with my last boyfriend for seven years when
Speaker 1: I realized I'd never had an orgasm before. So I
Speaker 1: went to the Chicago Art Institute and I brought my
Speaker 1: favorite toy, a candlestick brass rested, and I did everything
Speaker 1: that you can imagine right there in the impressionist room.
Speaker 2: Tanya twenty two. I love early morning sex, especially with
Speaker 2: a powerful man with an an even bigger espresso machine.
Speaker 2: Poor Mia shot of Dick.
Speaker 1: Cage twenty one. I don't think a big dick really
Speaker 1: matters that much. I've never gotten complaints about my normal dick.
Speaker 1: I think other guys dis are totally cool. When I'm
Speaker 1: at the urinal, I look at them, or I don't
Speaker 1: look because I don't think it really matters that much.
Speaker 1: It's just a beautiful object.
Speaker 2: Alan. I was with my wife for many years until
Speaker 2: one day she dressed up as a man. I've never
Speaker 2: been so hard in my life. Turns out I go
Speaker 2: both ways. Judy twenty eight. I don't know what to
Speaker 2: do with balls. Who's that knocking at the door. It's
Speaker 2: all your friends. You've filthy horse, your husband's gone, and.
Speaker 1: You've got books and a bottle of wine to kill.
Speaker 1: It's Hollywood, it's books, it's gossip.
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's memoirs. Celebrity book Club. Read it while
Speaker 2: it's hot. Celebrity book Club. Tell your secrets. We will
Speaker 2: talk celebrity books.
Speaker 1: No boys are aloud, say it loud and pounds celet
Speaker 1: book Clubs.
Speaker 2: Spuzz me in. I brought the queer vow. Oh hey,
Speaker 2: best friend, lover, coworker, acquaintance. Strange.
Speaker 1: How I am feeling really alive in my body today?
Speaker 1: You know, my human body, which is one of the
Speaker 1: most peculiar instruments on this earth, isn't it.
Speaker 2: It's so interesting. It's full of nerves, full of hair,
Speaker 2: full of different sensations. It's been studied, It's been studied
Speaker 2: since three thousand BC.
Speaker 1: Why is sex always ancient? Just always antiquity?
Speaker 2: Like sex is always like in Roman times from the
Speaker 2: bath they would feed on grapes and the phallacies were
Speaker 2: open and played with.
Speaker 1: Let's just get into it. So what did we read
Speaker 1: this week?
Speaker 2: We read it with me Petrel.
Speaker 1: Who you may know from Sex and the City as Samantha.
Speaker 2: The sexiest cast member.
Speaker 1: And has a book and documentary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that are kind of the same exact.
Speaker 1: Their companion pieces.
Speaker 2: Sold separately at Bs and Nobles and Borders. And her
Speaker 2: book and documentary, Sexual Intelligence, which is very like two
Speaker 2: thousand and six six and especially it's a glossy coffee
Speaker 2: table book that is about.
Speaker 1: Desire, desire, human sexuality and history and men and women bodies.
Speaker 2: The differences between their bodies and how the glitterist has
Speaker 2: more nerves than any other part of the body. But
Speaker 2: the fallas.
Speaker 1: Is so interesting, so like half of the movie Slash Book,
Speaker 1: it is just always going back to ancient Roman, ancient
Speaker 1: times and ancient people's worshiped.
Speaker 2: The fallous but afrodity. And the reason this book came
Speaker 2: about is because she said, you know, playing Samantha, one
Speaker 2: of the most famous sexual characters on television, people would
Speaker 2: see her as the sexpert and come up to her
Speaker 2: and tell her their randy stories. They're Samantha stories and
Speaker 2: be like, oh my god, like you must be an expert,
Speaker 2: a sexpert. Yes, And she was like, I was actually
Speaker 2: embarrassed to say I'm not Samantha, Like I actually don't
Speaker 2: have amazing sex every night, and I don't have the
Speaker 2: craziest stories. So it inspired her.
Speaker 1: In a note from cam in the beginning of the book,
Speaker 1: she goes, after the first two seasons sex and the
Speaker 1: city people began coming up to me wanting to share
Speaker 1: their own Samantha scenarios. This was flattering, but could sometimes
Speaker 1: be embarrassing as well. People assume that I, like Samantha,
Speaker 1: had always enjoyed fabulous sex, when in fact the opposite
Speaker 1: was true, as is the case.
Speaker 2: For many women.
Speaker 1: Sexual fulfillment came late with the publication of my first book, Satisfaction,
Speaker 1: The Art of the Female Orgasm. I wanted to reach
Speaker 1: out to women and men with the hope that what
Speaker 1: I had eventually learned could work for them, and finding
Speaker 1: my own fulfillment. And then she goes, I'm not a
Speaker 1: sex expert or a therapist. Still the male and the
Speaker 1: questions continued. It seems there remained so much more to
Speaker 1: explore and learn. I decided to call this new project
Speaker 1: sexual intelligence because I wanted to be just that, a
Speaker 1: gathering of information and insights.
Speaker 2: And is it a gathering of.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's so many quotes from experts, and just like
Speaker 1: studies show, study show, And in her book The History
Speaker 1: of the Female.
Speaker 2: It soys what's love got to do with it? Love,
Speaker 2: in all its complexity and irrationality, has not always held
Speaker 2: the value it does today. In the fascinating history Love
Speaker 2: in the Ancient World, authors Christopher Miles and John Julius
Speaker 2: Norwich tell us, for the ancients, love did not make
Speaker 2: you better, It made you worse, like she's always like,
Speaker 2: Quoting a different book about how the Romans had sex.
Speaker 1: Psychology refers to Roy Baumeister suggests that women have more
Speaker 1: erotic plasticity than men. Their sex trips are shaped more
Speaker 1: by circumstances and by social and cultural forces. The common
Speaker 1: suture recommends saffron, musk, and sandalwood as substances whose smell
Speaker 1: blends with that of the woman and encourage your sexual exectation.
Speaker 1: Even the Bible contributes the literature on fragrances and desires.
Speaker 2: Okay, here's a little witclosure book. Here's a little quiz,
Speaker 2: and everyone play along. In the Bible book book in
Speaker 2: the Bible, what does she say are the aphrodisiac sense
Speaker 2: that a man puts on a bed to lure his woman?
Speaker 2: Was it what I just said? Is it saffron and musk?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Wait? Is it like camel? It's like mr oh, okay,
Speaker 2: cinnamon and aloe, which I'm like, hmm, I just like it.
Speaker 1: Because cinnamon is so fall and it's so just like
Speaker 1: mom apple pie.
Speaker 2: Well then I made this kind of crazy connection this yes,
Speaker 2: thank you, thank you, because she says one of the
Speaker 2: most deronic sens are like pumpkin and spice and cinnamon.
Speaker 2: And we think, oh Christian girl, autumn, and why are
Speaker 2: these girls so obsessed with their pumpkin lattes? And it's
Speaker 2: actually because they're so turned on by it. But society
Speaker 2: tells us a woman can't say, hey, honey, come home,
Speaker 2: I'm a horny I'm baking pumpkin bread. She has to say, oh,
Speaker 2: I love pumpkins because I love Hocus.
Speaker 1: It's always comes back to the madonnah or complex. But
Speaker 1: I think this is actually so interesting because the classic
Speaker 1: feminine sense are not actually the sense we ironically associate
Speaker 1: with eroticism and desire.
Speaker 2: It's the quote.
Speaker 1: Mascot little wood right, and like leather right in tobacco,
Speaker 1: like alcohol with whiskey. It's like those are like sexier sense,
Speaker 1: whereas like these traditional feminine ones are like kind of
Speaker 1: associated with like either purity or matronliness. Yeah right, like
Speaker 1: this Christianity who like the floralness. Yeah, it's either Christian
Speaker 1: or it's you've already had kids. And now you smell
Speaker 1: like a flower. You smell like an old flower. Your
Speaker 1: vagina is sealed. You are no longer sexual department store.
Speaker 2: And I'm so glad we're talking about scent right now
Speaker 2: because something happened to me so interesting today. I'm wearing
Speaker 2: your lover's father's shirt right now.
Speaker 1: Wow, talk about outles blical, biblical.
Speaker 2: And I was on the train week of Cinnamon. I
Speaker 2: was on the train and I was like, what is
Speaker 2: that smell? And I. I was looking around at men.
Speaker 2: I was like, who smells kind of bad but manly
Speaker 2: on on the train and I was looking around. I
Speaker 2: was just kind of women with books and I was
Speaker 2: like not adding up. And then I was in the bathroom.
Speaker 2: And then I went into the bathroom, I said, the
Speaker 2: smell is still with me, and I realized it was.
Speaker 2: And it was this collection of.
Speaker 1: Men journey in center of my boyfriend's father, me, my boyfriend.
Speaker 2: Yeah, your closet, Landlord Ridgewood all into one when researchers said.
Speaker 1: The Smell and Taste Treatment and Research Foundation in Chicago
Speaker 1: conducted a study on the effects if any of fragrances
Speaker 1: and sexual assle. They use floral sense and threw in
Speaker 1: the smell of big Simon buns as a control. As
Speaker 1: each hoop smelled each testcent, individual blood flow in men's
Speaker 1: penises was measured using a small blood pressure cuff called
Speaker 1: a follometer penis. To the research, to surprise, the sticky
Speaker 1: buns raise their subjects blood flow more than any other scent.
Speaker 2: So you see science proofs that is to fall. Yes,
Speaker 2: because why do we call also fall couffing season?
Speaker 1: Oh, because we all put our fallometers on.
Speaker 3: As we go to Cinnabon, we're getting our pumpkin is
Speaker 3: beeping off the chiseling.
Speaker 2: Mama VENTI, I'll have a venty and signed me. If
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, you know the book and film,
Speaker 2: I will say. The only difference is that in the
Speaker 2: book Kim sorry Kittrell, So it's Katrell Trell, and I've
Speaker 2: always said.
Speaker 1: It is very much spelled like Coatrol. She's in Liverpool, Darling,
Speaker 1: and she grew up in British Columbia, in a small
Speaker 1: town on Vancouver Island, which is not Vancouver. It's like
Speaker 1: this island off the coast. It's like Vancouver is on
Speaker 1: the mainland, and then this is a large island off
Speaker 1: the car.
Speaker 2: And she doesn't really have like a British accent. She
Speaker 2: has this kind of Canadians.
Speaker 1: Like a sexually international Canadian accent.
Speaker 2: It's like a sex accent. It is. First of all,
Speaker 2: she's also a sex therapist. She was born to write
Speaker 2: this book.
Speaker 1: She's also ben forty one, like since nineteen seventy one,
Speaker 1: because when you look at her in her like first roles,
Speaker 1: she's already been this woman who's sexually wise beyond her years.
Speaker 2: Right, and being like, well, I like it when.
Speaker 1: I think partially because she has that like Cindy Crawford
Speaker 1: mole that sometimes she's covering up, but sometimes she has
Speaker 1: I think it's also like.
Speaker 2: The haircut, the bangs, her kind of huskier voice in
Speaker 2: the documentary. And this bisexual person is also quoted in here,
Speaker 2: so in.
Speaker 1: The Bye Girl the documentary who it looks like a
Speaker 1: Parker Posy character Kissy. I'm talking y two k bisexual
Speaker 1: Canadian name than Kisty.
Speaker 2: So they are all these like men and women who
Speaker 2: are interviewed in the documentary and.
Speaker 1: All and just like the softest like micro silk play.
Speaker 2: Microsal microfiber shirts, all have the craziest haircuts, but also
Speaker 2: just such like barbell piercings in this way. Yeah, Like
Speaker 2: the guys are very penis piercing.
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with the guy who's just like, if you
Speaker 1: can get two women in bed with you, they've got
Speaker 1: to be pretty dumb.
Speaker 2: They're like two and in bed. Sure, I'll take it, Okay.
Speaker 2: They all kind of seem like lesbians, but then there's
Speaker 2: this one lesbian who's actually.
Speaker 1: By Yeah, that was confusing, really, Pierre run with the piercing.
Speaker 1: She was so butch. I was like, then when she's
Speaker 1: were talking about men, I was like, mom.
Speaker 2: Mus yeah, I was like what and she was like,
Speaker 2: there's nothing like when a bulge is against fabric. And
Speaker 2: she was like, I like it big. But then she
Speaker 2: was like, nothing's better than when like a girl is
Speaker 2: eating you out with a tongue ring, which is also
Speaker 2: the most nineties thing. And I remember like when I
Speaker 2: was first kind of coming into my own sexuality and
Speaker 2: like hearing that being like, wait, I should get like
Speaker 2: a tongue rings.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, tongue ring oral sex. It was so
Speaker 1: also talked about like dude, have you ever gotten head
Speaker 1: from a girl with a tongue ring?
Speaker 2: Yes? Fucking fucking crazy, Like you don't even know what
Speaker 2: a blowjob is until you've experienced. First of all, no
Speaker 2: one has tongue rings anymore. No one.
Speaker 1: Everyone has a fucking nose ring. Everyone has the bull
Speaker 1: piercing laurence.
Speaker 2: Is that good for lingis?
Speaker 1: Well maybe if your nose is really buried in there.
Speaker 2: Well, the nose is always good I think for punde lingus.
Speaker 2: So you say it acts as a.
Speaker 1: Phallus, what if you maybe did like kind of a
Speaker 1: nasal attachment that was such a like rubbery.
Speaker 2: Instead of like let me get my knob, like let
Speaker 2: me get my strap, it's like let me get my
Speaker 2: full like ebeny. It's kind of a medal play mask.
Speaker 2: It's like the big like orse so knowlence costumes question, Stephen,
Speaker 2: do you dress up in the bedroom? Erotic place is
Speaker 2: so important? Studies show that in ancient times, I mean,
Speaker 2: let's go back to the fig leave well.
Speaker 1: First of all, my favorite bird of the documentary is
Speaker 1: at the very beginning, after the intro, which is completely insane,
Speaker 1: cut to her standing in front of the Toronto skyline
Speaker 1: and she just goes, let's talk about sex, and you're
Speaker 1: just like, why Toronto, Why is this the capital of sex?
Speaker 2: Why?
Speaker 3: There's no explanation because it's being like cities, because there
Speaker 3: is a travel budget for the She's at some like
Speaker 3: Scottish like land art that's made in like medieval times.
Speaker 2: Has this huge like machiness Pallas.
Speaker 1: She goes to Cypress, to Aphrodite's beach, just to walk
Speaker 1: out of the waves and be like Aphrodite.
Speaker 2: The original seductress. For generations we've been influenced. And then
Speaker 2: it's very like such a like early film collage of
Speaker 2: just like Hollyberry and Incomes of the Beach and Cyndy
Speaker 2: Crawford and be like, where would we be without Afrodite.
Speaker 1: Without the sirens and water which is so connected to sexuality.
Speaker 2: And then she's in the rocks as like a random
Speaker 2: guy is like.
Speaker 1: Giving her an oyster that she's then slurpy because the
Speaker 1: oyster represents feminism desiacs okay.
Speaker 2: And then my other favorite part in her travel and
Speaker 2: hears a quote of it when she happens upon like
Speaker 2: a stone carving of a dick, and then she's like, oops,
Speaker 2: Dallas is recarved into the pavement on street corners, set
Speaker 2: in bricks on the outside walls of buildings and even
Speaker 2: outfitted with little bronze bells called ttuliba and dangled over
Speaker 2: doorways and entrance halls. Talk about having a lot of
Speaker 2: balls in the air because it's like she's being like,
Speaker 2: I'm not Samantha, but then this book will be filled
Speaker 2: with like little Samantha sides being like now that's a fallows.
Speaker 2: And then the most amazing photo she.
Speaker 1: Is standing next to this like Scottish wind chime that's
Speaker 1: like a massive metal dick with wings.
Speaker 2: It's like a dick whale that is winged and has
Speaker 2: its own dick, an alerg dick, and is like held
Speaker 2: by bells.
Speaker 1: So she talks about the decline of the fallis es
Speaker 1: central to western art and how yes, and so in
Speaker 1: ancient Greece and ancient Rome, the Fallas was like represented
Speaker 1: like separately, and in Pompeii there's all these large dicks everywhere.
Speaker 1: But then the phallas became like smaller in statues we
Speaker 1: all know, like ancient statues had small dicks because it
Speaker 1: was like a man having a big dick was like
Speaker 1: too unreliable, because like there's such just a anthelion where
Speaker 1: she's like, if a man has a big dick, you
Speaker 1: can't trust you can't trust him.
Speaker 2: And then she goes hmm hm.
Speaker 1: But then, like the Middle Ages and Christianity brought on
Speaker 1: a lot of repression and the fig leaves and this
Speaker 1: sort of fear of the disclosure of the phallas making love.
Speaker 2: And she's like King Torontola or whatever like brought his daughter,
Speaker 2: like the King of Naples, Oh yes, and then he
Speaker 2: covered up all of the.
Speaker 1: Art unwittingly brought his daughter along to tour artifacts excavated
Speaker 1: from sites in Pompey. What he saw shocked and embarrassed him,
Speaker 1: and he ordered that a room he set aside of
Speaker 1: the National Archeological Museum of Naples for all offending wall paintings.
Speaker 2: And and here we were as pagans, freely making love.
Speaker 1: You know, it is true, obviously, it's like we think
Speaker 1: about depictions of female nudity have been very common throughout
Speaker 1: art for millennia. But then of course you look back
Speaker 1: at Manet and Olympia and everyone was the context was
Speaker 1: always very virginal with the women or it was like godly,
Speaker 1: it was otherworldly. It was never like a real woman
Speaker 1: showing her real pussy.
Speaker 2: Spread, right, It's always kind of women resting, yes, or
Speaker 2: women at war.
Speaker 1: Yes, or like women posing for the painting in the
Speaker 1: way we understand she's just doing it. It's like anatomy, but.
Speaker 2: They're not like being so like reverse cowgirl like certainly
Speaker 2: not Statue of David.
Speaker 1: And that's why Olympia caused such a hullabloo at the
Speaker 1: Salon in the eighteen eighties, because she was making eye
Speaker 1: contact with the viewer and her like attendant was there.
Speaker 2: And not just kind of this dazed eye. And then
Speaker 2: you know, in the documentary, Shelter mentions what the Metropolitan
Speaker 2: Museum of Art had an exhibit of Lucian Freud and
Speaker 2: there was warnings, yes, saying content warning, trigger warning, there's nudity,
Speaker 2: but yeah, there's nudity throughout the met Yes, but he
Speaker 2: was this modern showing of sexuality.
Speaker 1: Because nudity without sex is fine. And I think what's
Speaker 1: interesting about Hiding the Pallas is it's almost we can
Speaker 1: desexualize the vagina, but we like can't be sexualize a penis? Now,
Speaker 1: why is that misogyny?
Speaker 2: Misogyny exactly? And this book is also so classic nineties
Speaker 2: early two thousand and away, where there's an amazing photo
Speaker 2: of two speakers. One speaker says man, and there's one
Speaker 2: switch and that's off on and off and on, and
Speaker 2: then a woman's speaker is like knobs.
Speaker 1: Because women are attracted to so many more things ideas and.
Speaker 2: Power and brains, but also fear. But what I think
Speaker 2: is interesting.
Speaker 1: Tightnancy about this book is that it would ultimately argue
Speaker 1: the reverse as the documentary, which is that sexuality is
Speaker 1: so complicated and we are all animated by fantasy. Wit
Speaker 1: I love the insane like lesbian who's maybe not a
Speaker 1: lesbian in the documentary, who's just like if people heard
Speaker 1: my fantasies, they would put me in.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, you're like whoa, You're like, what are they?
Speaker 2: This is the one who was like the tongue rang
Speaker 2: one and.
Speaker 1: She looks just like a women's hockey coach.
Speaker 2: Like she's like the bushes. Then like the one who
Speaker 2: actually is a lesbian is like just the most like
Speaker 2: nineties our bodies, our bodies, ourselves, like bad nineties haircut.
Speaker 2: That is like lesbian bed death. It's real. But then
Speaker 2: also it w was is surprising. She's the one that says,
Speaker 2: I didn't even look at my vagina with a mirror
Speaker 2: till two years ago.
Speaker 1: I just watched that episode of Sex and the City
Speaker 1: the other day.
Speaker 2: One of the most classic episodes of television of all time,
Speaker 2: when Charlotte finally looks, and it's Samantha, of course, being like, honey,
Speaker 2: you've never taken a mirror and looked down there and
Speaker 2: see what's all the working parts? And Charlotte's like, why.
Speaker 1: No, Because it's also when her doctor tells her her
Speaker 1: vagina's depressed.
Speaker 2: Which is funny, kind of in the History of Sex
Speaker 2: and the City two of those characters, because I think
Speaker 2: Charlotte is the one that ends up being more kind
Speaker 2: of sexually free and kinky.
Speaker 1: Because she's so ltr and which she knows, as Samantha says,
Speaker 1: Sorry Samantha, As Kim Katrell says in this book, oxytocin
Speaker 1: can decrease between years two and three in a relationship,
Speaker 1: and that's why divorces peak around year four worldwide seven
Speaker 1: year itch more.
Speaker 2: Like four year stretch.
Speaker 1: Book Club.
Speaker 2: Club.
Speaker 1: She's like, the seven year itch is when you've had
Speaker 1: the chemicals like four year dip for three years too
Speaker 1: long or whatever, which is you know, this.
Speaker 2: Is interesting, let's talk about Let's talk about.
Speaker 1: The seven year itch and the four year X because I.
Speaker 2: Remember this famous article in New York Times magazine that
Speaker 2: was like about the search to find the female viagra.
Speaker 1: Well, and she says that it's impossible because women have
Speaker 1: so many knobs that like, it doesn't work on women,
Speaker 1: and I can't just have blood rushing to the clit
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden a woman's horning.
Speaker 2: But I do think there is something a little false
Speaker 2: in that. I feel like studies have shown and not
Speaker 2: totally where they were like, oh, no, you couldn't have
Speaker 2: a female viagra, and they were like, you can lubricate
Speaker 2: a woman, but she wouldn't necessarily be turned on, which
Speaker 2: may be true. But I'm like, but also, aren't they interconnected,
Speaker 2: because then it's like if a woman does take the
Speaker 2: pill and then she does feel like she can be
Speaker 2: more what, then maybe her mind will open to more
Speaker 2: of these kind of fantasies.
Speaker 1: I think part of it is so wrapped up in
Speaker 1: the mythology of the biology of the woman.
Speaker 2: Because a woman can't get hard, so the viagra can't.
Speaker 1: Work well, yes, and because the vagina is a cave.
Speaker 1: A cave is full of mystery. It's a dark space.
Speaker 1: We don't know what's in there and we never will.
Speaker 2: But it turned out a woman actually can get hard,
Speaker 2: as studies have shown. Glitteris doesn't gorge. It doesn't gorge
Speaker 2: when turned on.
Speaker 1: But I think because it is not as visibly obvious.
Speaker 1: If a man is hard, he is visibly hard. But
Speaker 1: if a woman's glitterist is visually engorged, you might need
Speaker 1: you mean, some other note To an outside observer, it's
Speaker 1: not immediately apparent, and that is why we will continue
Speaker 1: to push the mythology that a woman's attraction is purely
Speaker 1: mental and is purely spiritual and motivated by social concerns.
Speaker 2: And you know, it's funny in this racle they say
Speaker 2: a woman is actually more likely to feel before you're
Speaker 2: itch to be like okay, you know, like because it
Speaker 2: is not being like I know if you've had a
Speaker 2: four year itch, so you're gonna collogize, right, And the
Speaker 2: man is actually more fine with having the same old
Speaker 2: sex with the same old woman, maybe over and out
Speaker 2: year after year. And the woman actually needs a little
Speaker 2: more excitement, a little more change, yes, and is not
Speaker 2: gonna get turned on by Bill saying hey, han, what
Speaker 2: about sex tonight?
Speaker 1: Yes, but I also think that that also just comes
Speaker 1: back to like typical daynam And it's like, I think
Speaker 1: the man is more fine with the same old, same
Speaker 1: hold because he's been conditioned by society, by our review
Speaker 1: of marriage, to view sex as something that like either
Speaker 1: your wife gives you or she doesn't give you.
Speaker 2: So it's like, if you're getting it, be happy, Yeah,
Speaker 2: like dude, you should be happy do this. Yeah, Oh
Speaker 2: you're getting your poll wet.
Speaker 1: So it becomes this thing where it becomes Low's comm denominator,
Speaker 1: and it's just like, well, then all he has about
Speaker 1: is getting his pole wet. But in reality, the man
Speaker 1: does have deeper fantasies that probably not being explored because
Speaker 1: he's also like, it'd be really faggoty to explore a fantasy.
Speaker 2: Where he's like, oh, well, I couldn't like tell you
Speaker 2: what I wanted this right, And this is why it
Speaker 2: goes back to community communication, which is so important in
Speaker 2: a sexual dynamic, even when you're fetish just not communicating.
Speaker 1: How much would you say your father has influenced your type?
Speaker 2: Yeah, this whole book is very just like kissing, and
Speaker 2: your attraction is so influenced by like breastfeeding and your parents' sexuality.
Speaker 1: Wait, I love the way that page you were just
Speaker 1: on ninety one. Yeah, this image of her holding a swan.
Speaker 1: She's wearing a bedazzled bikini.
Speaker 2: Kind of like and the Mermaids, And there's just.
Speaker 1: A large pol quote that says, how many people have
Speaker 1: been baffled by a domination fantasy? What about imagining we
Speaker 1: are the opposite sex and that.
Speaker 2: It's a photo of which is also so sex And
Speaker 2: the city Samantha in like a business suit.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, yeah, but she's also doing like a Charlie's Angels,
Speaker 1: blowing out a finger gun. And then the other one
Speaker 1: of her in the clouds is her holding a writing crop.
Speaker 2: And then okay, the poll quote under the swan is
Speaker 2: and some fantasies are well just playing odd creating them.
Speaker 2: What's funny?
Speaker 1: Sex in this City is so obviously the most important
Speaker 1: Joe of all time. But I've been watching like season
Speaker 1: four and there's all these like moments when everyone's like
Speaker 1: freaked out. I mean, like Carrie's kind of like she's
Speaker 1: she's always read out. She s freaked out with a
Speaker 1: guy wh wants to piss on her. They're always like ew, Samantha, no,
Speaker 1: like that's not cool, and like Samantha's freaked up the
Speaker 1: baby talk guy.
Speaker 2: Then Miranda is freaked out by the guy who like
Speaker 2: goes down on her and then is like goes to
Speaker 2: kiss her, and she's like, are you kidding me? A napkin,
Speaker 2: I'm all over.
Speaker 1: I'm like when Samantha is a lesbian for two episodes
Speaker 1: and they're all just like, whoa, please stop saying the
Speaker 1: word vagina. It's not cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want to hear that.
Speaker 1: It's also because Miranda's so freaked out and you can't
Speaker 1: understand it, Like she's wearing like six turtlenecks and she's
Speaker 1: just like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 2: And then it's when Charlotte has anal and they're like
Speaker 2: what but he's your husband, and Charlotte's like, exactly.
Speaker 1: Here's a question I have for you, Lily. Do you
Speaker 1: think you have a type?
Speaker 2: I was actually thinking about that so much during this book,
Speaker 2: And you know, on one hand, I do think I do,
Speaker 2: and then the other I actually don't think I do.
Speaker 2: I know some would say, what's you have? I think
Speaker 2: some would say, you know, I like a blonde. What
Speaker 2: do you think that comes from? You know, does it
Speaker 2: come from the rejection of my brunettess or is it
Speaker 2: the creation of this kind of you know, stereotypical male sexuality.
Speaker 2: It's about my desire to be this American blooded man
Speaker 2: with the poor event and a blonde and fulfilling that fantasy. Yes,
Speaker 2: my persona even more than the blonde. Yes.
Speaker 1: I think that's one hundred percent true. And I think
Speaker 1: our own sexual identity is so wrapped up in our
Speaker 1: fantasy of another person.
Speaker 2: What do you think is your type. Well, I think
Speaker 2: I do have this type. I think you have a
Speaker 2: few types of a couple types, and I think everyone does.
Speaker 1: Yes, some would say a few hundred times hello.
Speaker 2: Oh honey, my type it's allid Toronto.
Speaker 1: Does he live in Toronto? Does he have a pulse?
Speaker 1: But I think you know certainly that the types of
Speaker 1: men that I've dated in long term relationships, they are
Speaker 1: all these kind of like very American men if you
Speaker 1: were so hot, Like they're kind of these all American types.
Speaker 2: Yet so funny because you're always desiring this kind of
Speaker 2: franco file.
Speaker 1: Yes, and I think my fantasy is so much more
Speaker 1: Mediterranean and it is like the guy who's serving her
Speaker 1: oways on a rock in Cypress. But then I always
Speaker 1: end up dating these like super kind of like the
Speaker 1: baseball archetype, the lacrosse archetype. Like you know, there's the
Speaker 1: art bro, or there's the midwestern guy, like the colorade
Speaker 1: of the western Massachusetts.
Speaker 2: But there's these kind of different states.
Speaker 1: Yes, but they all have this kind of like semi
Speaker 1: rural masculinity to all of them.
Speaker 2: No, And I think of the gay guy version of
Speaker 2: that is like to be this girl, yes, right, yes,
Speaker 2: and to want this guy because then I look like
Speaker 2: you can change a tire.
Speaker 1: Yes, And so my kind of like desire to be
Speaker 1: like a girl name let's call her Madison.
Speaker 2: Maybe her name is Madison. Maybe she grew up in
Speaker 2: suburban Toronto, went to a really good school, had a
Speaker 2: really good family, shot really good grades, wants to be
Speaker 2: a writer.
Speaker 1: And it's funny because I've only really really traversed the
Speaker 1: fantasy of like the European. I mean, I lost some
Speaker 1: virginity to a British guy. My first boyfriend was British.
Speaker 1: But then after that, Yeah, it's semi rural. Yeah, Western
Speaker 1: mass Colorado, northern Washington, Wisconsin.
Speaker 2: My type is northern Washington.
Speaker 1: So this like Toronto, which all makes me the Madison ultimately.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But then at the end of the day, I'm like,
Speaker 2: what is my type? I think my type is a
Speaker 2: mischievous smile. My type is a certain type of humor.
Speaker 2: Maybe a little bit of bossiness in the streets, but
Speaker 2: not bossy in the apartment. Not bossy in the apartment.
Speaker 2: Now do you think your mother's breastfeeding influenced your sexuality? Oh?
Speaker 1: Of course she had very large nipples, which is why
Speaker 1: I desire a small one.
Speaker 2: It's because in ancient times.
Speaker 1: As a rejection of the feminine.
Speaker 2: Right, the tinier the nipple, yes, the more you were attracted.
Speaker 1: Nipples of course, were very tiny in Western art for
Speaker 1: centuries until they started to gain prominence as a rejection
Speaker 1: of the female form.
Speaker 2: There's a guy that's interviewed in this book who says
Speaker 2: one of his turn ons is a woman who's really
Speaker 2: good at martial arts. Now, that's what I'm saying. The
Speaker 2: man's attraction is towards the brain. You know, it's like, yes,
Speaker 2: maybe he has mourning wood, but a man who likes
Speaker 2: martial arts, that's saying something.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's just like because there's all sorts
Speaker 1: of like a cultural fetishes that could come into play
Speaker 1: there where he's associating martial arts with you know, a
Speaker 1: badass woman, a woman, you know, like a dominant woman,
Speaker 1: a woman of asia possibly yes, a woman of wearing robes,
Speaker 1: which also has sexual connotations. And then the sword as
Speaker 1: fallis and so maybe there's also like a latent homosexual attraction.
Speaker 2: Right, I would say, like the martial arts, the desire
Speaker 2: of domination is the most ereotypical thing is you know,
Speaker 2: the businessman who wants to get walked on by stilettos. Now,
Speaker 2: the word stiletto, the trial first says, came up in
Speaker 2: America in the fifties and it's a long heeled shoe.
Speaker 1: Aphdity means sea foam, as Aphrodity did emerge from the
Speaker 1: waves of the Mediterranean and that's why women are so
Speaker 1: assoctutid water. And then it's like the documentary cut to
Speaker 1: that random woman just being like, oh, water is so
Speaker 1: sexual to me.
Speaker 2: I find the shower very erotic. Oh yeah, okay, like
Speaker 2: I would say, like the more like basic woman that's
Speaker 2: interviewed is this woman who says she's attracted to artsy guys,
Speaker 2: but then she describes the guys she's attracted to, and
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, everyone, She's like, I'm actually attracted to
Speaker 2: really tall guys. Yeah, oh yeah, with really broad shoulders.
Speaker 2: She's like, here's the thing. If they're tall without bron shoulders,
Speaker 2: then I don't like them. Dark eyes, dark hair, curly,
Speaker 2: dark hair. And then she's like, yeah, why do I
Speaker 2: have these fantasies of having sex in water?
Speaker 1: And it's just it's like tall, dark and handsome, like
Speaker 1: Guyana Beach it's.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, that's fantasy. And then all these just like
Speaker 2: a nerdy dad scientists who have all written books called
Speaker 2: arousal are interviewed, and this one, like dad arousal expert,
Speaker 2: is like, you know, actually, when people have fantasies of
Speaker 2: having sex and nature, it's actually that they want to
Speaker 2: be free from the chaine of society. Yes, maybe they
Speaker 2: want to be caught. Some people want to be caught
Speaker 2: some people don't.
Speaker 1: Have you ever had sex in nature?
Speaker 2: No? Oh yeah, well.
Speaker 1: Maybe before you're forty.
Speaker 2: It's not something I necessarily you.
Speaker 1: Don't fantasize about. The liberation desire.
Speaker 2: It's more sex in yes, other places, but I wouldn't
Speaker 2: call it the other places nature that.
Speaker 1: I've had to them as like friends, parents, guests, rooms.
Speaker 2: You know, kind of more the American car, Yes, the
Speaker 2: European nightclub.
Speaker 1: Which is another side of masculinity, yes, American car. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think obviously game al culture is really very nature,
Speaker 1: very nature focused for cruising reasons, for social reasons, and
Speaker 1: then I think obviously that is bound up in social
Speaker 1: ideas of liberation, and so I think that the social
Speaker 1: aspect of is interesting. But I do wonder about the
Speaker 1: bye of physical relationship with nature, with feeling with dirt,
Speaker 1: with bark, with sand, with water, and what that does
Speaker 1: to eras well.
Speaker 2: It also if we go back to the phallus in
Speaker 2: the game and culture say, oh, you know the beach.
Speaker 2: To me, who was born with the anatomy of more
Speaker 2: of the labia minor, you know, the sex and the beach,
Speaker 2: it seems, oh, what's going to get inside? It's getting
Speaker 2: a little more shaped, it's getting a little more exfoliated.
Speaker 1: Yes, no, And I think that obviously anatomy wise there
Speaker 1: is more room to experiment. Of course, men are always
Speaker 1: pissed on trees, and then that has its whole like
Speaker 1: the sexual markers of domination and territoriality like coming to
Speaker 1: play there. But I actually wonder if there is in
Speaker 1: nature itself. We were talking about mother nature, right, I'll
Speaker 1: admit I've had sex in a bog before, and I
Speaker 1: think that a different bod a different.
Speaker 2: Okay, not the bobo. Just wanted to make things clear here.
Speaker 1: But it has a very mossy, spongy texture that is
Speaker 1: in some ways very feminine, right it almost I wonder
Speaker 1: if it is like men who were in the vision. Yes,
Speaker 1: it is a return to the womb that we crave.
Speaker 2: You're breastfeeding essential and you're saying, oh, we're here, but
Speaker 2: mother is watching, and mother is saying it's okay. Well,
Speaker 2: and it goes back to the brain thing. And you know,
Speaker 2: to quote Christian Cavaleria, the question always is, you know.
Speaker 1: Sexual expert Kristin Cavaleri, and she.
Speaker 2: Was like, what would I do if I had a
Speaker 2: parade where I would like jerk off all day long?
Speaker 2: Then I would piss? And I do think in that
Speaker 2: way like sex outside would be easier with the foulus.
Speaker 1: Absolutely and oral of course, although isn't oral easy anywhere
Speaker 1: for a woman?
Speaker 2: Or do you really need like the bed? I would
Speaker 2: call it easy, okay, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 2: you could, but it's not easy. It would be more
Speaker 2: idea because you have to get a little bit more
Speaker 2: to get under.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's it's like you're kneeling and the dick is just
Speaker 2: in your face. Hello, good morning Seattle. Right, ok, you
Speaker 2: have to kind of get under and spread. It's a
Speaker 2: little stand and finger.
Speaker 1: Fingering, yes, which I saw it. That panel once said
Speaker 1: that the lesbians at re speech in the seventies would
Speaker 1: stand in a shopping bag and figure each other so
Speaker 1: cops couldn't see under the door.
Speaker 2: Exactly. That's easy. You can absolutely fin you're in a bog.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the connection between sex and comedy.
Speaker 1: Michael Bowder explains, we feel guilty and ashamed of sex,
Speaker 1: and so what jokes do is play on our guilt
Speaker 1: and shame, make us laugh and enable us to enjoy sex.
Speaker 1: It's a form of mastery. That's so interesting because in
Speaker 1: this context, sex becomes something we fear, something we must tame,
Speaker 1: and comedy jokes allow us to be in control over
Speaker 1: the dominion of sex.
Speaker 2: No one said it, but sex is almost like stand
Speaker 2: up the first time you do it. Yes, you're so
Speaker 2: they're so much frame and you probably won't kill No,
Speaker 2: you probably won't come.
Speaker 1: But when you get that first chuckle for the.
Speaker 2: Audience, oh, there's nothing better.
Speaker 1: It's the thumbs up and you say, I can keep going.
Speaker 2: And it's the building, and it's the building. Yes, But
Speaker 2: let's talk about actual jokes during sex.
Speaker 1: Hmm, okay, when you're doing the borsch belt routine in
Speaker 1: the booder, I.
Speaker 2: Think it's about right telling exact jokes. But I do
Speaker 2: think it's so important to have a little bit of
Speaker 2: humor and be able to laugh. Yeah, because also sometimes
Speaker 2: things can get awkward, things can get weird.
Speaker 1: If I may be radically vulnerable for a second. I
Speaker 1: actually think that I tend to laugh more on a
Speaker 1: second sexual outing with a man, because the first time,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, is almost a little it's like pretty performative.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're so into the fact that like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're in a hallway, like oh, the mayor d is
Speaker 1: coming right.
Speaker 2: I'm British. But then the.
Speaker 1: Second time, I think can be more giggly. I think
Speaker 1: as a relationship goes on and the oxytocin wanes, I
Speaker 1: actually find you probably giggle less unless you're reacting to
Speaker 1: something funny that's actually happening in real time, because you're
Speaker 1: actual doing more fantasy work.
Speaker 2: See it's so funny. I find the opposite. I actually
Speaker 2: find that the giggling is even more.
Speaker 1: You giggle more than ever at year eleven or fifteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I feel like more of Actually, yeah, those
Speaker 2: first times are so like yeah, performative, interesting, not all
Speaker 2: the time, but then like you know, sometimes it is
Speaker 2: a little more giggly.
Speaker 1: See, I feel like the sex now this is now
Speaker 1: nobody wants this like literally, see, I feel like the
Speaker 1: sex with my rabbi now is it's like because we've
Speaker 1: been in a relationship for a longer time. It's more like, Oh,
Speaker 1: this is this is what I paid for, This is
Speaker 1: why I subscribe to the sub stack.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? No laughing aloud. It's more
Speaker 2: like sometimes our laughter filled and sometimes are not. It
Speaker 2: depends on the play session, if you will.
Speaker 1: I guess, yes, it does depend on the play I'm
Speaker 1: not thinking like a little chuckle. I'm thinking like big laughs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess I'm talking about more like little giggles.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean little giggles are always we're talking
Speaker 2: about this, Like who talk about hooping and hollering? Watching
Speaker 2: Kim Katrell walk through Cyprus, I was screaming with laughter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the movie is like one of the
Speaker 1: funniest movies I've ever seen.
Speaker 2: It's three ninety nine to round.
Speaker 1: And turning around and facing camera. She'll be like walking
Speaker 1: away and like wearing just like a weird top with
Speaker 1: like seven key holes in it, and then like turns
Speaker 1: around and faces the camera and just like and what's
Speaker 1: more interesting than sex with desire?
Speaker 2: Can I ask you a question, do you think me
Speaker 2: early more than parents? I actually, for me, I think
Speaker 2: early media. Probably I watched define sexuality.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, of course, like movies completely defined sexuality.
Speaker 2: Would you like to share and be vulnerable?
Speaker 1: I mean, like, what dominating my fantasy?
Speaker 2: Or do you think what turned you on to something
Speaker 2: that you didn't even know you were turned on by?
Speaker 2: And you can be vague just named the film of
Speaker 2: a situation interesting In music, you know, maybe the fast
Speaker 2: paced techno of French electro, of daft punk. While driving?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, I look back at like
Speaker 1: Charlie's Angels too full Throttle and Justin Thireau and that
Speaker 1: film and his abs, But I also think like those
Speaker 1: are obvious things. It's like, oh, it's a guy with abs.
Speaker 2: Well, it's so funny you mentioned Charlie's Angels because I
Speaker 2: remember walking with you in the erotic town of Salem,
Speaker 2: Massachusetts once at a field trip and you said to me,
Speaker 2: Lucy Lou is so hot.
Speaker 1: That is interesting.
Speaker 2: Fourteenth Yeah, and she is, for sure, she totally is.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I think it was like, yes,
Speaker 2: seeing girls.
Speaker 1: Be dark, there's an anti social nest there a little
Speaker 1: bit because like dark girl wants to be submissive because
Speaker 1: it's like naughty.
Speaker 2: Yes, And then I think on the gay factor, it's like,
Speaker 2: maybe the dark girl is most likely to kind of
Speaker 2: be like be a lesbian, yeah, and not be fucking conventional.
Speaker 1: Right, that's also true, and it's just like, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a flouting of convention in general.
Speaker 2: But then it's so virginal. But then in the opposite
Speaker 2: it's you know, what's more attractive that the basic right
Speaker 2: is the lacrosse player, the cheerleader who goes dark. It's funny.
Speaker 1: Then I think, you know, I was so into you
Speaker 1: and McGregor when we routines as well, and as I
Speaker 1: came out as bisexual in ninth grade, I started to
Speaker 1: really pursue a Uman McGregor crush with a plump and
Speaker 1: for me, he was a man, but there was also
Speaker 1: something a little bit gay and European about him, and
Speaker 1: so he was there was an accessibility there that I
Speaker 1: felt he was like a bridge to a sexuality I
Speaker 1: could have. And I didn't yet know if I wanted
Speaker 1: to be him or fuck him, but I was like
Speaker 1: I could live in a world of europeanist one.
Speaker 2: Day, yes, and I would like to bring up the
Speaker 2: movie that I think of kind of an ironic route
Speaker 2: for me, a life less Ordinary, which is Cameron Diaz
Speaker 2: and you and McGregor, and it is kind of this
Speaker 2: like sexy erotic European electronic music alternative mmm mm hm.
Speaker 1: And so once again you see your punk identity being
Speaker 1: validated in the erotic narrative.
Speaker 2: It is ideas. And she is more a blonde you're saying,
Speaker 2: I'm not, oh so she's no, But she's kind of
Speaker 2: dark in that movie, a little more like Kimeron's is
Speaker 2: always a guy's girl. It's a guys girl. It's kind
Speaker 2: of like, what if I said this.
Speaker 1: Do you see orgasm as freedom?
Speaker 2: Yes? I think she brings up in this book studies show.
Speaker 2: You know, it's the only time in life, you know,
Speaker 2: you're not trying to do this. Politics aren't being discussed
Speaker 2: really let go.
Speaker 1: The French of course called Le putino, which means the
Speaker 1: little death, and it is a death because it is
Speaker 1: a release quite physically literally released. But also do we
Speaker 1: lose our cells in create a space for something larger
Speaker 1: as she argues, or is it just sensation? It's so
Speaker 1: hard to say because it's like the one moment when
Speaker 1: you really can't be thinking about something truly, except those
Speaker 1: times though, when you know you're psyching yourself out, like
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, like, don't think about my dad while
Speaker 1: I'm coming, And then like because you're trying to not
Speaker 1: think about it, then you're thinking about it, you know,
Speaker 1: and then you're like running your fingers along in the
Speaker 1: dry cleaning in your dad's closet and you're just like,
Speaker 1: why am I here?
Speaker 2: Why am I here? And like you can't get out
Speaker 2: of there. You're smelling his big socks. Run the marathon in.
Speaker 1: But other than that, I feel like that's.
Speaker 2: Always more for pre but more during. Yeah, your lights
Speaker 2: at don't think about that because that's such a thing
Speaker 2: you're not supposed to think about during.
Speaker 1: It is just like total utter loss.
Speaker 4: Of what you're supposed to do in this I wonder
Speaker 4: you know, we haven't discussed porn yet, but you know,
Speaker 4: there's a lot being said today about how porn ruins fantasm,
Speaker 4: and people both on the left and right under the
Speaker 4: spectrum have said that porn is changing the way that
Speaker 4: people view their own sexuality and their expectations from sexual partners,
Speaker 4: their expectations of their own identity, creation and how they
Speaker 4: see themselves.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering to what extent that's true. Obviously, I've been
Speaker 1: looking at porn for most of my career.
Speaker 2: As a man.
Speaker 1: It's hard to say how much has influenced me or
Speaker 1: not because I'm very into taboo, power dynamics and porn.
Speaker 1: I think the stepfather, the stepfather, the military man. It's
Speaker 1: like the boy scout leader and the truth, the.
Speaker 2: Class of the teacher, the football.
Speaker 1: Code, Like there's always something like that, and like the
Speaker 1: more like difference the cop and the guy who's been
Speaker 1: accused of shoplifting.
Speaker 2: Like it's kind of like fast food everything in moderation.
Speaker 1: Oh, in terms of porn not affecting you're but it's like,
Speaker 1: but all those fantasies to me are kind of like.
Speaker 2: They're there before. Yeah, they're only they're there to kind
Speaker 2: of help you come along. I don't mean to do
Speaker 2: it in new ways.
Speaker 1: But I think the criticism would be that it's like
Speaker 1: you're watching people like be so porny in the way
Speaker 1: they move and interact with each other physically.
Speaker 2: Right, they're saying that like porn ruins the way you're
Speaker 2: having sex, because.
Speaker 1: Then you're not being like curious and exploring with your
Speaker 1: fingers and really inhaling someone's scent and their leather and
Speaker 1: they're better and they're cinnamon and you're not like.
Speaker 2: They're pumpkins burying your.
Speaker 1: Like plague nose and their cinematon.
Speaker 2: I know, I'm like, does Kim Katrell because.
Speaker 1: You're just like thinking about a porn just kind of
Speaker 1: watching porn.
Speaker 2: I feel like she's.
Speaker 1: Watching porn in a way where she's like lighting candles
Speaker 1: and watching like an eighties porn like with her love.
Speaker 2: No, I know, I think it's like candles. I almost
Speaker 2: wonder if it's like seventies it's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely older porn. But she's like interested in
Speaker 1: like a new directtion.
Speaker 2: Right, this is a sweetish direction, right, it's a little
Speaker 2: more erotic films like whatever I happened to NC seventeen
Speaker 2: an erotic film for me? Yeah, that was the Doom
Speaker 2: Generation Gregor Rocky erotic thriller. Yes, I was like seeing
Speaker 2: things that, like I was like, I've never seen this before,
Speaker 2: and she is more of the erotic film than like
Speaker 2: with what she's been mareed three times but is now
Speaker 2: single good for her? I know her last marriage was
Speaker 2: to an audio technician.
Speaker 1: Wow, I bet you know how to turn her mouth.
Speaker 2: Because sound is also so huge.
Speaker 1: Sound is really big because it's.
Speaker 2: About receiving the sound from your lover.
Speaker 1: Yes. Sound is because if they're just.
Speaker 2: Silent, then it's.
Speaker 1: Like hello, Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm into both.
Speaker 2: I'm into sound and visuals. But almost now i'm thinking
Speaker 2: about it, I'm like, maybe I'm more into sound.
Speaker 1: I'm into both a loud lover and also like a
Speaker 1: deadly silent lover.
Speaker 2: Well, because that's erotic into its own. Yes, because it's
Speaker 2: like I'm taking over you're just here.
Speaker 1: It creates more space for my sound.
Speaker 2: You're like the loud one. It's about you're the loud one,
Speaker 2: and it's about kind of more. I think you're more like,
Speaker 2: let me have more like the silent football coach, right,
Speaker 2: so you can be Madison studies show segments how does
Speaker 2: she live? What does she wear? What does she eat?
Speaker 2: Are we doing that for? Or okay, what does she eat?
Speaker 1: Peaches, oyster, chocolate, pomeg cinnamon.
Speaker 2: You know what's actually such? I think an erotic, more
Speaker 2: chemicatrolic erotic meal. In this way, it's so like cherry
Speaker 2: cinnamon lamb chops.
Speaker 1: Like something kind of like so the Sandra d used
Speaker 1: to have the cooking show. If you said, there's like
Speaker 1: someone who posts like unhinged recipes, and like there's one
Speaker 1: where she's there just like it's chocolate cherry wine ribs.
Speaker 1: And she's just always been like, I'm making a blueberry
Speaker 1: sauce for my like a dobo like chocolate tacos.
Speaker 2: And that's very like I'm forty three, I'm divorced and
Speaker 2: I'm seducing another forty five year old businessman. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: the way to his stomach is cabernet. Yeah, and chocolate ribs.
Speaker 1: No, She's definitely like red meat, red fruit. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just that literalism of just like red being passion
Speaker 1: and so I'm gonna eat red.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't think food for me, it's food.
Speaker 1: Is so erotic.
Speaker 2: For you, You're red side. Food is erotic. But like
Speaker 2: if we're talking about like what's kind of the most erotic,
Speaker 2: it's being not fault I tell you that that's for me.
Speaker 2: But of course, but the day food and making its full.
Speaker 1: There's nothing actually more food driven than lack of food,
Speaker 1: because it's hunger. It's hunger itself, and it's hunger for
Speaker 1: what is it hunger for pussy or is it hunger
Speaker 1: for veal?
Speaker 2: Parmegan It's then feel.
Speaker 1: Like that's really Italian like lesbian sext toy line.
Speaker 2: Feel now I got veal on the braid. Okay, so
Speaker 2: Kim Katrell, It's champagne, it's chocolate covered strawberries, balsamac It's
Speaker 2: Mediterranean style. Yeah, it's great, believes so many.
Speaker 1: It's anything that can be like fed to you while
Speaker 1: you're reclining on a rock.
Speaker 2: What does she wear?
Speaker 1: Honestly, she should walk in a Couslado show.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Yeah, because she's like creative nitwear. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's off the shoulder, elbow patches and then slits on
Speaker 2: the sleeve. But then also it's like I think she's
Speaker 2: still just like body con leopard coat, stilettos, sweater.
Speaker 1: Because she's pushing seventy and she looks amazing and she
Speaker 1: is just kind of being like, I'm gonna do classic
Speaker 1: power women's beltic stuff. Obviously, her character in The Sex
Speaker 1: and the City dresses in this really loud.
Speaker 2: Like business Patricia sex business.
Speaker 1: One where she's always wearing like a crazy pink suit
Speaker 1: and like the animal prim send.
Speaker 2: Like the belt. In her personal life, I.
Speaker 1: Think she is like more sexy, but it's more coastal
Speaker 1: because she grew up on Vancouver Island. It's always like
Speaker 1: a little bit rocky, a little bit like.
Speaker 2: She's sitting actually looking over because she's cold beat and
Speaker 2: I think she's wrapping her maybe nude body in a
Speaker 2: huge cashmir blanket.
Speaker 1: Yes and throws yes, and like booties.
Speaker 2: She's not like very sneaker. I don't think no oh,
Speaker 2: and I think she is stilettos and like stomping on
Speaker 2: her audio. Guy, how does she live?
Speaker 1: She's definitely has framed photos of boundary bursting burlesque babes
Speaker 1: like j Baker ships.
Speaker 2: On her wall and so May West quotes same. And
Speaker 2: also I think it's like paintings of legs. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: fallus sculptures. Its house so fabulous. It's sexy Buddha.
Speaker 1: And does she live in like Scotland, Toronto or.
Speaker 2: I think she's London, Okay, And so also she's pulling
Speaker 2: out like ancient.
Speaker 1: She hates Carrie Bradshaw. She lives in London. So what
Speaker 1: I like about this book is at the end there's
Speaker 1: not even a note from her. There's just a note
Speaker 1: from the publisher. The publisher would like to acknowledge with
Speaker 1: enormous thanks the following people for their invaluable help on flagging, enthusiasm, generosity,
Speaker 1: and grace during the making this book. Kim Ktrell, who
Speaker 1: gave a this wonderful opportunity to work with her. They're
Speaker 1: kind of being like, she didn't write it, but we
Speaker 1: thank her for sort of for involvement in the book.
Speaker 2: And then this big quote, desire is like the sun,
Speaker 2: It nurtures, it burns, it's heat irresistible. You're like, oh, okay, Waters,
Speaker 2: I mean earth.
Speaker 1: Desire is life is Freud said, everything is erotic. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's a direct quote, but it's basically
Speaker 1: what his kind of thing was. And it's like, I
Speaker 1: do think the lesson of the book is it's like
Speaker 1: sexuality is in everything, and it informs everything we do,
Speaker 1: and if you are not in touch with the living world,
Speaker 1: in the world around you, your sex life is not.
Speaker 2: Going to be satisfying exactly. I don't think it is
Speaker 2: an on and off switch, and I think we need
Speaker 2: to kind of throw these ideas of what turns a
Speaker 2: man on what turns a woman on? It's really what
Speaker 2: turns mom or Earth.
Speaker 1: On, yes, and what turns her off? Climate change?
Speaker 2: Thank you, so use plastics d growth. Now.
Speaker 1: Also, let me just note the book was printed in Singapore.
Speaker 2: That makes sense. I feel like she like.
Speaker 1: Had this idea and like told the documentary to HBO
Speaker 1: and they're like, I mean, we can't say no because
Speaker 1: like in the city is like such a big deal.
Speaker 1: You can kind of do whatever you want. But like
Speaker 1: we al should have a book to random and they
Speaker 1: like went to random house and they were like.
Speaker 2: This is random, Okay, who are you in the book?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you're kind of aphrodity or I
Speaker 2: was emerging from the sea. Thank you.
Speaker 1: But you're also affro dating because you are such a
Speaker 1: water book.
Speaker 2: No, I know, and I'm always coming out like both mean,
Speaker 2: like what happened in there? I don't know. I give
Speaker 2: this book well, I give the documentary film five to
Speaker 2: five out of five fallacies. The book, the photography, the
Speaker 2: visuals are amazing. Personally, I would like a lot more
Speaker 2: personal information from Kim on like what turns her on,
Speaker 2: but I respect her privacy. I guess at the end
Speaker 2: of the.
Speaker 1: Day, Yeah, it's pretty random, or even more about like
Speaker 1: I don't know because the stories in the book it
Speaker 1: is so general, it's just studies show. It could have
Speaker 1: been more interesting. She was a little bit more like
Speaker 1: when we were in Cyprus, like I saw this hot guy, yeah,
Speaker 1: or like I talked to the Cypriot, like who has said.
Speaker 2: Dating like this is? Like at first did laugh in the.
Speaker 1: Journey and I wish it were a little bit more
Speaker 1: of a global survey of sexuality and a little less
Speaker 1: just like study show.
Speaker 2: And then the five Toronto bisexuals that she go watch.
Speaker 2: The movie branded on Apple TV do Yourself a Favor,
Speaker 2: Okay best CEO. Stephen and Lily was produced by.
Speaker 1: One in four women in the Italian Peninsula who've never
Speaker 1: had an orgasm.
Speaker 5: Darby Masters, supervising producer is a man in Toronto who's
Speaker 5: dated many women at one time and lives to tell
Speaker 5: the tale Aboo Zafar. It was also produced by the
Speaker 5: Goddess herself, Christina Efron.
Speaker 1: Our engineer was New York photographer Bahid Fraser, who's been
Speaker 1: capturing glimpses of women's private parts since the early two
Speaker 1: thousands in and around the New York City area.
Speaker 2: Music actually is full of sex and thank god we
Speaker 2: have a theme song by a sexy music producer known
Speaker 2: as Stephen Phillipswurst.
Speaker 1: The concept for this podcast, which originally created by seminal
Speaker 1: sexologist and podcast production company Prolog Projects. We're no longer
Speaker 1: affiliated with them, but we wish them the best in
Speaker 1: their erotic journey.
Speaker 2: Find us and support our research on Patreon, dot com,
Speaker 2: slash CBC the pod, and a huge thank you to
Speaker 2: all of our lovers who have been leaving make five
Speaker 2: Star Refuse. They make us feel very pleased.