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Speaker 1: Celebrity book Club.

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Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Kim Katrell and I'm doing a documentary about

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Speaker 2: the sexual lives of Toronto residents. We're going to talk

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Speaker 2: to ten sexually active Greater Toronto residents about what turns

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Speaker 2: them on, what turns them off, and what makes them climax.

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Speaker 2: First up, Davis thirty four.

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Speaker 1: I like when a woman gets home from work.

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Speaker 2: Kira twenty nine. This thing happened to me when I

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Speaker 2: was twenty eight, where I only liked guys with broad shoulders.

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Speaker 2: Now I like guys with slender shoulders. I don't know

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Speaker 2: what happened, but it just gets me off. Shira thirty three.

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Speaker 1: I was with my last boyfriend for seven years when

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Speaker 1: I realized I'd never had an orgasm before. So I

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Speaker 1: went to the Chicago Art Institute and I brought my

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Speaker 1: favorite toy, a candlestick brass rested, and I did everything

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Speaker 1: that you can imagine right there in the impressionist room.

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Speaker 2: Tanya twenty two. I love early morning sex, especially with

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Speaker 2: a powerful man with an an even bigger espresso machine.

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Speaker 2: Poor Mia shot of Dick.

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Speaker 1: Cage twenty one. I don't think a big dick really

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Speaker 1: matters that much. I've never gotten complaints about my normal dick.

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Speaker 1: I think other guys dis are totally cool. When I'm

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Speaker 1: at the urinal, I look at them, or I don't

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Speaker 1: look because I don't think it really matters that much.

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Speaker 1: It's just a beautiful object.

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Speaker 2: Alan. I was with my wife for many years until

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Speaker 2: one day she dressed up as a man. I've never

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Speaker 2: been so hard in my life. Turns out I go

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Speaker 2: both ways. Judy twenty eight. I don't know what to

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Speaker 2: do with balls. Who's that knocking at the door. It's

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Speaker 2: all your friends. You've filthy horse, your husband's gone, and.

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Speaker 1: You've got books and a bottle of wine to kill.

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Speaker 1: It's Hollywood, it's books, it's gossip.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure it's memoirs. Celebrity book Club. Read it while

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Speaker 2: it's hot. Celebrity book Club. Tell your secrets. We will

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Speaker 2: talk celebrity books.

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Speaker 1: No boys are aloud, say it loud and pounds celet

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Speaker 1: book Clubs.

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Speaker 2: Spuzz me in. I brought the queer vow. Oh hey,

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Speaker 2: best friend, lover, coworker, acquaintance. Strange.

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Speaker 1: How I am feeling really alive in my body today?

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Speaker 1: You know, my human body, which is one of the

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Speaker 1: most peculiar instruments on this earth, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: It's so interesting. It's full of nerves, full of hair,

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Speaker 2: full of different sensations. It's been studied, It's been studied

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Speaker 2: since three thousand BC.

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Speaker 1: Why is sex always ancient? Just always antiquity?

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Speaker 2: Like sex is always like in Roman times from the

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Speaker 2: bath they would feed on grapes and the phallacies were

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Speaker 2: open and played with.

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Speaker 1: Let's just get into it. So what did we read

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Speaker 1: this week?

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Speaker 2: We read it with me Petrel.

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Speaker 1: Who you may know from Sex and the City as Samantha.

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Speaker 2: The sexiest cast member.

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Speaker 1: And has a book and documentary.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that are kind of the same exact.

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Speaker 1: Their companion pieces.

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Speaker 2: Sold separately at Bs and Nobles and Borders. And her

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Speaker 2: book and documentary, Sexual Intelligence, which is very like two

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Speaker 2: thousand and six six and especially it's a glossy coffee

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Speaker 2: table book that is about.

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Speaker 1: Desire, desire, human sexuality and history and men and women bodies.

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Speaker 2: The differences between their bodies and how the glitterist has

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Speaker 2: more nerves than any other part of the body. But

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Speaker 2: the fallas.

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Speaker 1: Is so interesting, so like half of the movie Slash Book,

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Speaker 1: it is just always going back to ancient Roman, ancient

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Speaker 1: times and ancient people's worshiped.

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Speaker 2: The fallous but afrodity. And the reason this book came

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Speaker 2: about is because she said, you know, playing Samantha, one

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Speaker 2: of the most famous sexual characters on television, people would

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Speaker 2: see her as the sexpert and come up to her

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Speaker 2: and tell her their randy stories. They're Samantha stories and

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Speaker 2: be like, oh my god, like you must be an expert,

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Speaker 2: a sexpert. Yes, And she was like, I was actually

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Speaker 2: embarrassed to say I'm not Samantha, Like I actually don't

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Speaker 2: have amazing sex every night, and I don't have the

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Speaker 2: craziest stories. So it inspired her.

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Speaker 1: In a note from cam in the beginning of the book,

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Speaker 1: she goes, after the first two seasons sex and the

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Speaker 1: city people began coming up to me wanting to share

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Speaker 1: their own Samantha scenarios. This was flattering, but could sometimes

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Speaker 1: be embarrassing as well. People assume that I, like Samantha,

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Speaker 1: had always enjoyed fabulous sex, when in fact the opposite

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Speaker 1: was true, as is the case.

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Speaker 2: For many women.

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Speaker 1: Sexual fulfillment came late with the publication of my first book, Satisfaction,

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Speaker 1: The Art of the Female Orgasm. I wanted to reach

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Speaker 1: out to women and men with the hope that what

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Speaker 1: I had eventually learned could work for them, and finding

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Speaker 1: my own fulfillment. And then she goes, I'm not a

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Speaker 1: sex expert or a therapist. Still the male and the

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Speaker 1: questions continued. It seems there remained so much more to

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Speaker 1: explore and learn. I decided to call this new project

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Speaker 1: sexual intelligence because I wanted to be just that, a

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Speaker 1: gathering of information and insights.

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Speaker 2: And is it a gathering of.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's so many quotes from experts, and just like

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Speaker 1: studies show, study show, And in her book The History

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Speaker 1: of the Female.

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Speaker 2: It soys what's love got to do with it? Love,

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Speaker 2: in all its complexity and irrationality, has not always held

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Speaker 2: the value it does today. In the fascinating history Love

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Speaker 2: in the Ancient World, authors Christopher Miles and John Julius

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Speaker 2: Norwich tell us, for the ancients, love did not make

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Speaker 2: you better, It made you worse, like she's always like,

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Speaker 2: Quoting a different book about how the Romans had sex.

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Speaker 1: Psychology refers to Roy Baumeister suggests that women have more

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Speaker 1: erotic plasticity than men. Their sex trips are shaped more

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Speaker 1: by circumstances and by social and cultural forces. The common

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Speaker 1: suture recommends saffron, musk, and sandalwood as substances whose smell

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Speaker 1: blends with that of the woman and encourage your sexual exectation.

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Speaker 1: Even the Bible contributes the literature on fragrances and desires.

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Speaker 2: Okay, here's a little witclosure book. Here's a little quiz,

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Speaker 2: and everyone play along. In the Bible book book in

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Speaker 2: the Bible, what does she say are the aphrodisiac sense

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Speaker 2: that a man puts on a bed to lure his woman?

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Speaker 2: Was it what I just said? Is it saffron and musk?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Wait? Is it like camel? It's like mr oh, okay,

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Speaker 2: cinnamon and aloe, which I'm like, hmm, I just like it.

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Speaker 1: Because cinnamon is so fall and it's so just like

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Speaker 1: mom apple pie.

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Speaker 2: Well then I made this kind of crazy connection this yes,

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Speaker 2: thank you, thank you, because she says one of the

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Speaker 2: most deronic sens are like pumpkin and spice and cinnamon.

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Speaker 2: And we think, oh Christian girl, autumn, and why are

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Speaker 2: these girls so obsessed with their pumpkin lattes? And it's

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Speaker 2: actually because they're so turned on by it. But society

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Speaker 2: tells us a woman can't say, hey, honey, come home,

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Speaker 2: I'm a horny I'm baking pumpkin bread. She has to say, oh,

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Speaker 2: I love pumpkins because I love Hocus.

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Speaker 1: It's always comes back to the madonnah or complex. But

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Speaker 1: I think this is actually so interesting because the classic

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Speaker 1: feminine sense are not actually the sense we ironically associate

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Speaker 1: with eroticism and desire.

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Speaker 2: It's the quote.

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Speaker 1: Mascot little wood right, and like leather right in tobacco,

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Speaker 1: like alcohol with whiskey. It's like those are like sexier sense,

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Speaker 1: whereas like these traditional feminine ones are like kind of

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Speaker 1: associated with like either purity or matronliness. Yeah right, like

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Speaker 1: this Christianity who like the floralness. Yeah, it's either Christian

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Speaker 1: or it's you've already had kids. And now you smell

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Speaker 1: like a flower. You smell like an old flower. Your

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Speaker 1: vagina is sealed. You are no longer sexual department store.

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Speaker 2: And I'm so glad we're talking about scent right now

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Speaker 2: because something happened to me so interesting today. I'm wearing

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Speaker 2: your lover's father's shirt right now.

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Speaker 1: Wow, talk about outles blical, biblical.

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Speaker 2: And I was on the train week of Cinnamon. I

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Speaker 2: was on the train and I was like, what is

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Speaker 2: that smell? And I. I was looking around at men.

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Speaker 2: I was like, who smells kind of bad but manly

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Speaker 2: on on the train and I was looking around. I

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Speaker 2: was just kind of women with books and I was

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Speaker 2: like not adding up. And then I was in the bathroom.

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Speaker 2: And then I went into the bathroom, I said, the

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Speaker 2: smell is still with me, and I realized it was.

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Speaker 2: And it was this collection of.

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Speaker 1: Men journey in center of my boyfriend's father, me, my boyfriend.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, your closet, Landlord Ridgewood all into one when researchers said.

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Speaker 1: The Smell and Taste Treatment and Research Foundation in Chicago

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Speaker 1: conducted a study on the effects if any of fragrances

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Speaker 1: and sexual assle. They use floral sense and threw in

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Speaker 1: the smell of big Simon buns as a control. As

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Speaker 1: each hoop smelled each testcent, individual blood flow in men's

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Speaker 1: penises was measured using a small blood pressure cuff called

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Speaker 1: a follometer penis. To the research, to surprise, the sticky

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Speaker 1: buns raise their subjects blood flow more than any other scent.

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Speaker 2: So you see science proofs that is to fall. Yes,

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Speaker 2: because why do we call also fall couffing season?

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Speaker 1: Oh, because we all put our fallometers on.

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Speaker 3: As we go to Cinnabon, we're getting our pumpkin is

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Speaker 3: beeping off the chiseling.

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Speaker 2: Mama VENTI, I'll have a venty and signed me. If

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Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, you know the book and film,

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Speaker 2: I will say. The only difference is that in the

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Speaker 2: book Kim sorry Kittrell, So it's Katrell Trell, and I've

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Speaker 2: always said.

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Speaker 1: It is very much spelled like Coatrol. She's in Liverpool, Darling,

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Speaker 1: and she grew up in British Columbia, in a small

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Speaker 1: town on Vancouver Island, which is not Vancouver. It's like

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Speaker 1: this island off the coast. It's like Vancouver is on

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Speaker 1: the mainland, and then this is a large island off

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Speaker 1: the car.

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Speaker 2: And she doesn't really have like a British accent. She

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Speaker 2: has this kind of Canadians.

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Speaker 1: Like a sexually international Canadian accent.

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Speaker 2: It's like a sex accent. It is. First of all,

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Speaker 2: she's also a sex therapist. She was born to write

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Speaker 2: this book.

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Speaker 1: She's also ben forty one, like since nineteen seventy one,

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Speaker 1: because when you look at her in her like first roles,

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Speaker 1: she's already been this woman who's sexually wise beyond her years.

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Speaker 2: Right, and being like, well, I like it when.

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Speaker 1: I think partially because she has that like Cindy Crawford

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Speaker 1: mole that sometimes she's covering up, but sometimes she has

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Speaker 1: I think it's also like.

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Speaker 2: The haircut, the bangs, her kind of huskier voice in

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Speaker 2: the documentary. And this bisexual person is also quoted in here,

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Speaker 2: so in.

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Speaker 1: The Bye Girl the documentary who it looks like a

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Speaker 1: Parker Posy character Kissy. I'm talking y two k bisexual

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Speaker 1: Canadian name than Kisty.

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Speaker 2: So they are all these like men and women who

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Speaker 2: are interviewed in the documentary and.

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Speaker 1: All and just like the softest like micro silk play.

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Speaker 2: Microsal microfiber shirts, all have the craziest haircuts, but also

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Speaker 2: just such like barbell piercings in this way. Yeah, Like

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Speaker 2: the guys are very penis piercing.

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Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with the guy who's just like, if you

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Speaker 1: can get two women in bed with you, they've got

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Speaker 1: to be pretty dumb.

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Speaker 2: They're like two and in bed. Sure, I'll take it, Okay.

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Speaker 2: They all kind of seem like lesbians, but then there's

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Speaker 2: this one lesbian who's actually.

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Speaker 1: By Yeah, that was confusing, really, Pierre run with the piercing.

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Speaker 1: She was so butch. I was like, then when she's

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Speaker 1: were talking about men, I was like, mom.

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Speaker 2: Mus yeah, I was like what and she was like,

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Speaker 2: there's nothing like when a bulge is against fabric. And

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Speaker 2: she was like, I like it big. But then she

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Speaker 2: was like, nothing's better than when like a girl is

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Speaker 2: eating you out with a tongue ring, which is also

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Speaker 2: the most nineties thing. And I remember like when I

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Speaker 2: was first kind of coming into my own sexuality and

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Speaker 2: like hearing that being like, wait, I should get like

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Speaker 2: a tongue rings.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, tongue ring oral sex. It was so

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Speaker 1: also talked about like dude, have you ever gotten head

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Speaker 1: from a girl with a tongue ring?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Fucking fucking crazy, Like you don't even know what

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Speaker 2: a blowjob is until you've experienced. First of all, no

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Speaker 2: one has tongue rings anymore. No one.

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Speaker 1: Everyone has a fucking nose ring. Everyone has the bull

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Speaker 1: piercing laurence.

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Speaker 2: Is that good for lingis?

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Speaker 1: Well maybe if your nose is really buried in there.

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Speaker 2: Well, the nose is always good I think for punde lingus.

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Speaker 2: So you say it acts as a.

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Speaker 1: Phallus, what if you maybe did like kind of a

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Speaker 1: nasal attachment that was such a like rubbery.

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Speaker 2: Instead of like let me get my knob, like let

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Speaker 2: me get my strap, it's like let me get my

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Speaker 2: full like ebeny. It's kind of a medal play mask.

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Speaker 2: It's like the big like orse so knowlence costumes question, Stephen,

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Speaker 2: do you dress up in the bedroom? Erotic place is

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Speaker 2: so important? Studies show that in ancient times, I mean,

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Speaker 2: let's go back to the fig leave well.

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Speaker 1: First of all, my favorite bird of the documentary is

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Speaker 1: at the very beginning, after the intro, which is completely insane,

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Speaker 1: cut to her standing in front of the Toronto skyline

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Speaker 1: and she just goes, let's talk about sex, and you're

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Speaker 1: just like, why Toronto, Why is this the capital of sex?

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Speaker 2: Why?

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Speaker 3: There's no explanation because it's being like cities, because there

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Speaker 3: is a travel budget for the She's at some like

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Speaker 3: Scottish like land art that's made in like medieval times.

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Speaker 2: Has this huge like machiness Pallas.

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Speaker 1: She goes to Cypress, to Aphrodite's beach, just to walk

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Speaker 1: out of the waves and be like Aphrodite.

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Speaker 2: The original seductress. For generations we've been influenced. And then

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Speaker 2: it's very like such a like early film collage of

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Speaker 2: just like Hollyberry and Incomes of the Beach and Cyndy

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Speaker 2: Crawford and be like, where would we be without Afrodite.

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Speaker 1: Without the sirens and water which is so connected to sexuality.

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Speaker 2: And then she's in the rocks as like a random

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Speaker 2: guy is like.

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Speaker 1: Giving her an oyster that she's then slurpy because the

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Speaker 1: oyster represents feminism desiacs okay.

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Speaker 2: And then my other favorite part in her travel and

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Speaker 2: hears a quote of it when she happens upon like

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Speaker 2: a stone carving of a dick, and then she's like, oops,

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Speaker 2: Dallas is recarved into the pavement on street corners, set

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Speaker 2: in bricks on the outside walls of buildings and even

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Speaker 2: outfitted with little bronze bells called ttuliba and dangled over

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Speaker 2: doorways and entrance halls. Talk about having a lot of

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Speaker 2: balls in the air because it's like she's being like,

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Speaker 2: I'm not Samantha, but then this book will be filled

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Speaker 2: with like little Samantha sides being like now that's a fallows.

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Speaker 2: And then the most amazing photo she.

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Speaker 1: Is standing next to this like Scottish wind chime that's

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Speaker 1: like a massive metal dick with wings.

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Speaker 2: It's like a dick whale that is winged and has

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Speaker 2: its own dick, an alerg dick, and is like held

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Speaker 2: by bells.

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Speaker 1: So she talks about the decline of the fallis es

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Speaker 1: central to western art and how yes, and so in

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Speaker 1: ancient Greece and ancient Rome, the Fallas was like represented

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Speaker 1: like separately, and in Pompeii there's all these large dicks everywhere.

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Speaker 1: But then the phallas became like smaller in statues we

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Speaker 1: all know, like ancient statues had small dicks because it

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Speaker 1: was like a man having a big dick was like

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Speaker 1: too unreliable, because like there's such just a anthelion where

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Speaker 1: she's like, if a man has a big dick, you

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Speaker 1: can't trust you can't trust him.

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Speaker 2: And then she goes hmm hm.

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Speaker 1: But then, like the Middle Ages and Christianity brought on

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Speaker 1: a lot of repression and the fig leaves and this

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Speaker 1: sort of fear of the disclosure of the phallas making love.

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Speaker 2: And she's like King Torontola or whatever like brought his daughter,

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Speaker 2: like the King of Naples, Oh yes, and then he

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Speaker 2: covered up all of the.

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Speaker 1: Art unwittingly brought his daughter along to tour artifacts excavated

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Speaker 1: from sites in Pompey. What he saw shocked and embarrassed him,

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Speaker 1: and he ordered that a room he set aside of

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Speaker 1: the National Archeological Museum of Naples for all offending wall paintings.

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Speaker 2: And and here we were as pagans, freely making love.

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Speaker 1: You know, it is true, obviously, it's like we think

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Speaker 1: about depictions of female nudity have been very common throughout

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Speaker 1: art for millennia. But then of course you look back

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Speaker 1: at Manet and Olympia and everyone was the context was

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Speaker 1: always very virginal with the women or it was like godly,

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Speaker 1: it was otherworldly. It was never like a real woman

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Speaker 1: showing her real pussy.

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Speaker 2: Spread, right, It's always kind of women resting, yes, or

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Speaker 2: women at war.

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Speaker 1: Yes, or like women posing for the painting in the

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Speaker 1: way we understand she's just doing it. It's like anatomy, but.

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Speaker 2: They're not like being so like reverse cowgirl like certainly

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Speaker 2: not Statue of David.

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Speaker 1: And that's why Olympia caused such a hullabloo at the

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Speaker 1: Salon in the eighteen eighties, because she was making eye

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Speaker 1: contact with the viewer and her like attendant was there.

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Speaker 2: And not just kind of this dazed eye. And then

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Speaker 2: you know, in the documentary, Shelter mentions what the Metropolitan

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Speaker 2: Museum of Art had an exhibit of Lucian Freud and

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Speaker 2: there was warnings, yes, saying content warning, trigger warning, there's nudity,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, there's nudity throughout the met Yes, but he

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Speaker 2: was this modern showing of sexuality.

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Speaker 1: Because nudity without sex is fine. And I think what's

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Speaker 1: interesting about Hiding the Pallas is it's almost we can

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Speaker 1: desexualize the vagina, but we like can't be sexualize a penis? Now,

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Speaker 1: why is that misogyny?

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Speaker 2: Misogyny exactly? And this book is also so classic nineties

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Speaker 2: early two thousand and away, where there's an amazing photo

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Speaker 2: of two speakers. One speaker says man, and there's one

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Speaker 2: switch and that's off on and off and on, and

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Speaker 2: then a woman's speaker is like knobs.

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Speaker 1: Because women are attracted to so many more things ideas and.

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Speaker 2: Power and brains, but also fear. But what I think

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Speaker 2: is interesting.

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Speaker 1: Tightnancy about this book is that it would ultimately argue

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Speaker 1: the reverse as the documentary, which is that sexuality is

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Speaker 1: so complicated and we are all animated by fantasy. Wit

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Speaker 1: I love the insane like lesbian who's maybe not a

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Speaker 1: lesbian in the documentary, who's just like if people heard

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Speaker 1: my fantasies, they would put me in.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, you're like whoa, You're like, what are they?

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Speaker 2: This is the one who was like the tongue rang

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Speaker 2: one and.

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Speaker 1: She looks just like a women's hockey coach.

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Speaker 2: Like she's like the bushes. Then like the one who

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Speaker 2: actually is a lesbian is like just the most like

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Speaker 2: nineties our bodies, our bodies, ourselves, like bad nineties haircut.

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Speaker 2: That is like lesbian bed death. It's real. But then

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Speaker 2: also it w was is surprising. She's the one that says,

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Speaker 2: I didn't even look at my vagina with a mirror

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Speaker 2: till two years ago.

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Speaker 1: I just watched that episode of Sex and the City

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Speaker 1: the other day.

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Speaker 2: One of the most classic episodes of television of all time,

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Speaker 2: when Charlotte finally looks, and it's Samantha, of course, being like, honey,

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Speaker 2: you've never taken a mirror and looked down there and

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Speaker 2: see what's all the working parts? And Charlotte's like, why.

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Speaker 1: No, Because it's also when her doctor tells her her

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Speaker 1: vagina's depressed.

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Speaker 2: Which is funny, kind of in the History of Sex

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Speaker 2: and the City two of those characters, because I think

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Speaker 2: Charlotte is the one that ends up being more kind

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Speaker 2: of sexually free and kinky.

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Speaker 1: Because she's so ltr and which she knows, as Samantha says,

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Speaker 1: Sorry Samantha, As Kim Katrell says in this book, oxytocin

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Speaker 1: can decrease between years two and three in a relationship,

376
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Speaker 1: and that's why divorces peak around year four worldwide seven

377
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 1: year itch more.

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Speaker 2: Like four year stretch.

379
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Speaker 1: Book Club.

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Speaker 2: Club.

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Speaker 1: She's like, the seven year itch is when you've had

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00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 1: the chemicals like four year dip for three years too

383
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 1: long or whatever, which is you know, this.

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Speaker 2: Is interesting, let's talk about Let's talk about.

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00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: The seven year itch and the four year X because I.

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Speaker 2: Remember this famous article in New York Times magazine that

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Speaker 2: was like about the search to find the female viagra.

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Speaker 1: Well, and she says that it's impossible because women have

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Speaker 1: so many knobs that like, it doesn't work on women,

390
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Speaker 1: and I can't just have blood rushing to the clit

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden a woman's horning.

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Speaker 2: But I do think there is something a little false

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Speaker 2: in that. I feel like studies have shown and not

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Speaker 2: totally where they were like, oh, no, you couldn't have

395
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Speaker 2: a female viagra, and they were like, you can lubricate

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Speaker 2: a woman, but she wouldn't necessarily be turned on, which

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Speaker 2: may be true. But I'm like, but also, aren't they interconnected,

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Speaker 2: because then it's like if a woman does take the

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Speaker 2: pill and then she does feel like she can be

400
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 2: more what, then maybe her mind will open to more

401
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Speaker 2: of these kind of fantasies.

402
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: I think part of it is so wrapped up in

403
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Speaker 1: the mythology of the biology of the woman.

404
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 2: Because a woman can't get hard, so the viagra can't.

405
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: Work well, yes, and because the vagina is a cave.

406
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: A cave is full of mystery. It's a dark space.

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Speaker 1: We don't know what's in there and we never will.

408
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 2: But it turned out a woman actually can get hard,

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Speaker 2: as studies have shown. Glitteris doesn't gorge. It doesn't gorge

410
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 2: when turned on.

411
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Speaker 1: But I think because it is not as visibly obvious.

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Speaker 1: If a man is hard, he is visibly hard. But

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00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: if a woman's glitterist is visually engorged, you might need

414
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 1: you mean, some other note To an outside observer, it's

415
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,959
Speaker 1: not immediately apparent, and that is why we will continue

416
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 1: to push the mythology that a woman's attraction is purely

417
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: mental and is purely spiritual and motivated by social concerns.

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Speaker 2: And you know, it's funny in this racle they say

419
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 2: a woman is actually more likely to feel before you're

420
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 2: itch to be like okay, you know, like because it

421
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 2: is not being like I know if you've had a

422
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 2: four year itch, so you're gonna collogize, right, And the

423
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 2: man is actually more fine with having the same old

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Speaker 2: sex with the same old woman, maybe over and out

425
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 2: year after year. And the woman actually needs a little

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00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 2: more excitement, a little more change, yes, and is not

427
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Speaker 2: gonna get turned on by Bill saying hey, han, what

428
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 2: about sex tonight?

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00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 1: Yes, but I also think that that also just comes

430
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 1: back to like typical daynam And it's like, I think

431
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: the man is more fine with the same old, same

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Speaker 1: hold because he's been conditioned by society, by our review

433
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Speaker 1: of marriage, to view sex as something that like either

434
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Speaker 1: your wife gives you or she doesn't give you.

435
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 2: So it's like, if you're getting it, be happy, Yeah,

436
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 2: like dude, you should be happy do this. Yeah, Oh

437
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 2: you're getting your poll wet.

438
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: So it becomes this thing where it becomes Low's comm denominator,

439
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: and it's just like, well, then all he has about

440
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 1: is getting his pole wet. But in reality, the man

441
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: does have deeper fantasies that probably not being explored because

442
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: he's also like, it'd be really faggoty to explore a fantasy.

443
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 2: Where he's like, oh, well, I couldn't like tell you

444
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 2: what I wanted this right, And this is why it

445
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 2: goes back to community communication, which is so important in

446
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 2: a sexual dynamic, even when you're fetish just not communicating.

447
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 1: How much would you say your father has influenced your type?

448
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, this whole book is very just like kissing, and

449
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 2: your attraction is so influenced by like breastfeeding and your parents' sexuality.

450
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: Wait, I love the way that page you were just

451
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: on ninety one. Yeah, this image of her holding a swan.

452
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: She's wearing a bedazzled bikini.

453
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 2: Kind of like and the Mermaids, And there's just.

454
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: A large pol quote that says, how many people have

455
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: been baffled by a domination fantasy? What about imagining we

456
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:55,919
Speaker 1: are the opposite sex and that.

457
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 2: It's a photo of which is also so sex And

458
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 2: the city Samantha in like a business suit.

459
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: Oh wait, yeah, but she's also doing like a Charlie's Angels,

460
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: blowing out a finger gun. And then the other one

461
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: of her in the clouds is her holding a writing crop.

462
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 2: And then okay, the poll quote under the swan is

463
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 2: and some fantasies are well just playing odd creating them.

464
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 2: What's funny?

465
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: Sex in this City is so obviously the most important

466
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: Joe of all time. But I've been watching like season

467
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,199
Speaker 1: four and there's all these like moments when everyone's like

468
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: freaked out. I mean, like Carrie's kind of like she's

469
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: she's always read out. She s freaked out with a

470
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: guy wh wants to piss on her. They're always like ew, Samantha, no,

471
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: like that's not cool, and like Samantha's freaked up the

472
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: baby talk guy.

473
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 2: Then Miranda is freaked out by the guy who like

474
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 2: goes down on her and then is like goes to

475
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 2: kiss her, and she's like, are you kidding me? A napkin,

476
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 2: I'm all over.

477
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: I'm like when Samantha is a lesbian for two episodes

478
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: and they're all just like, whoa, please stop saying the

479
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: word vagina. It's not cool.

480
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want to hear that.

481
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: It's also because Miranda's so freaked out and you can't

482
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: understand it, Like she's wearing like six turtlenecks and she's

483
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 1: just like, what are you talking about?

484
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 2: And then it's when Charlotte has anal and they're like

485
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 2: what but he's your husband, and Charlotte's like, exactly.

486
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: Here's a question I have for you, Lily. Do you

487
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: think you have a type?

488
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 2: I was actually thinking about that so much during this book,

489
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 2: And you know, on one hand, I do think I do,

490
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,719
Speaker 2: and then the other I actually don't think I do.

491
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: I know some would say, what's you have? I think

492
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 2: some would say, you know, I like a blonde. What

493
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 2: do you think that comes from? You know, does it

494
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 2: come from the rejection of my brunettess or is it

495
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 2: the creation of this kind of you know, stereotypical male sexuality.

496
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 2: It's about my desire to be this American blooded man

497
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 2: with the poor event and a blonde and fulfilling that fantasy. Yes,

498
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 2: my persona even more than the blonde. Yes.

499
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: I think that's one hundred percent true. And I think

500
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: our own sexual identity is so wrapped up in our

501
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: fantasy of another person.

502
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 2: What do you think is your type. Well, I think

503
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 2: I do have this type. I think you have a

504
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 2: few types of a couple types, and I think everyone does.

505
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: Yes, some would say a few hundred times hello.

506
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 2: Oh honey, my type it's allid Toronto.

507
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: Does he live in Toronto? Does he have a pulse?

508
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: But I think you know certainly that the types of

509
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: men that I've dated in long term relationships, they are

510
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: all these kind of like very American men if you

511
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: were so hot, Like they're kind of these all American types.

512
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 2: Yet so funny because you're always desiring this kind of

513
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 2: franco file.

514
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: Yes, and I think my fantasy is so much more

515
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: Mediterranean and it is like the guy who's serving her

516
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: oways on a rock in Cypress. But then I always

517
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: end up dating these like super kind of like the

518
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: baseball archetype, the lacrosse archetype. Like you know, there's the

519
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: art bro, or there's the midwestern guy, like the colorade

520
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: of the western Massachusetts.

521
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 2: But there's these kind of different states.

522
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: Yes, but they all have this kind of like semi

523
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: rural masculinity to all of them.

524
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 2: No, And I think of the gay guy version of

525
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 2: that is like to be this girl, yes, right, yes,

526
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: and to want this guy because then I look like

527
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 2: you can change a tire.

528
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: Yes, And so my kind of like desire to be

529
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: like a girl name let's call her Madison.

530
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 2: Maybe her name is Madison. Maybe she grew up in

531
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 2: suburban Toronto, went to a really good school, had a

532
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 2: really good family, shot really good grades, wants to be

533
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 2: a writer.

534
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: And it's funny because I've only really really traversed the

535
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: fantasy of like the European. I mean, I lost some

536
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: virginity to a British guy. My first boyfriend was British.

537
00:30:54,960 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: But then after that, Yeah, it's semi rural. Yeah, Western

538
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: mass Colorado, northern Washington, Wisconsin.

539
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 2: My type is northern Washington.

540
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: So this like Toronto, which all makes me the Madison ultimately.

541
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. But then at the end of the day, I'm like,

542
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 2: what is my type? I think my type is a

543
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 2: mischievous smile. My type is a certain type of humor.

544
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 2: Maybe a little bit of bossiness in the streets, but

545
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: not bossy in the apartment. Not bossy in the apartment.

546
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 2: Now do you think your mother's breastfeeding influenced your sexuality? Oh?

547
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: Of course she had very large nipples, which is why

548
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:41,479
Speaker 1: I desire a small one.

549
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: It's because in ancient times.

550
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: As a rejection of the feminine.

551
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 2: Right, the tinier the nipple, yes, the more you were attracted.

552
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: Nipples of course, were very tiny in Western art for

553
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: centuries until they started to gain prominence as a rejection

554
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: of the female form.

555
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 2: There's a guy that's interviewed in this book who says

556
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 2: one of his turn ons is a woman who's really

557
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 2: good at martial arts. Now, that's what I'm saying. The

558
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 2: man's attraction is towards the brain. You know, it's like, yes,

559
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,239
Speaker 2: maybe he has mourning wood, but a man who likes

560
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 2: martial arts, that's saying something.

561
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: Do you think it's just like because there's all sorts

562
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: of like a cultural fetishes that could come into play

563
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: there where he's associating martial arts with you know, a

564
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: badass woman, a woman, you know, like a dominant woman,

565
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: a woman of asia possibly yes, a woman of wearing robes,

566
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: which also has sexual connotations. And then the sword as

567
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: fallis and so maybe there's also like a latent homosexual attraction.

568
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 2: Right, I would say, like the martial arts, the desire

569
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 2: of domination is the most ereotypical thing is you know,

570
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: the businessman who wants to get walked on by stilettos. Now,

571
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 2: the word stiletto, the trial first says, came up in

572
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 2: America in the fifties and it's a long heeled shoe.

573
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: Aphdity means sea foam, as Aphrodity did emerge from the

574
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: waves of the Mediterranean and that's why women are so

575
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: assoctutid water. And then it's like the documentary cut to

576
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: that random woman just being like, oh, water is so

577
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: sexual to me.

578
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 2: I find the shower very erotic. Oh yeah, okay, like

579
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 2: I would say, like the more like basic woman that's

580
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 2: interviewed is this woman who says she's attracted to artsy guys,

581
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 2: but then she describes the guys she's attracted to, and

582
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, everyone, She's like, I'm actually attracted to

583
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 2: really tall guys. Yeah, oh yeah, with really broad shoulders.

584
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 2: She's like, here's the thing. If they're tall without bron shoulders,

585
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 2: then I don't like them. Dark eyes, dark hair, curly,

586
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 2: dark hair. And then she's like, yeah, why do I

587
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 2: have these fantasies of having sex in water?

588
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: And it's just it's like tall, dark and handsome, like

589
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: Guyana Beach it's.

590
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, that's fantasy. And then all these just like

591
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 2: a nerdy dad scientists who have all written books called

592
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 2: arousal are interviewed, and this one, like dad arousal expert,

593
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 2: is like, you know, actually, when people have fantasies of

594
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 2: having sex and nature, it's actually that they want to

595
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 2: be free from the chaine of society. Yes, maybe they

596
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 2: want to be caught. Some people want to be caught

597
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 2: some people don't.

598
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: Have you ever had sex in nature?

599
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 2: No? Oh yeah, well.

600
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: Maybe before you're forty.

601
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 2: It's not something I necessarily you.

602
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: Don't fantasize about. The liberation desire.

603
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 2: It's more sex in yes, other places, but I wouldn't

604
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 2: call it the other places nature that.

605
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: I've had to them as like friends, parents, guests, rooms.

606
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 2: You know, kind of more the American car, Yes, the

607
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 2: European nightclub.

608
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,959
Speaker 1: Which is another side of masculinity, yes, American car. I mean,

609
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: I think obviously game al culture is really very nature,

610
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: very nature focused for cruising reasons, for social reasons, and

611
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,479
Speaker 1: then I think obviously that is bound up in social

612
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: ideas of liberation, and so I think that the social

613
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: aspect of is interesting. But I do wonder about the

614
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: bye of physical relationship with nature, with feeling with dirt,

615
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: with bark, with sand, with water, and what that does

616
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 1: to eras well.

617
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 2: It also if we go back to the phallus in

618
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 2: the game and culture say, oh, you know the beach.

619
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 2: To me, who was born with the anatomy of more

620
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 2: of the labia minor, you know, the sex and the beach,

621
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 2: it seems, oh, what's going to get inside? It's getting

622
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 2: a little more shaped, it's getting a little more exfoliated.

623
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: Yes, no, And I think that obviously anatomy wise there

624
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: is more room to experiment. Of course, men are always

625
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: pissed on trees, and then that has its whole like

626
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: the sexual markers of domination and territoriality like coming to

627
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: play there. But I actually wonder if there is in

628
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: nature itself. We were talking about mother nature, right, I'll

629
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: admit I've had sex in a bog before, and I

630
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 1: think that a different bod a different.

631
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:27,479
Speaker 2: Okay, not the bobo. Just wanted to make things clear here.

632
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: But it has a very mossy, spongy texture that is

633
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: in some ways very feminine, right it almost I wonder

634
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: if it is like men who were in the vision. Yes,

635
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: it is a return to the womb that we crave.

636
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 2: You're breastfeeding essential and you're saying, oh, we're here, but

637
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 2: mother is watching, and mother is saying it's okay. Well,

638
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 2: and it goes back to the brain thing. And you know,

639
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 2: to quote Christian Cavaleria, the question always is, you know.

640
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 1: Sexual expert Kristin Cavaleri, and she.

641
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 2: Was like, what would I do if I had a

642
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 2: parade where I would like jerk off all day long?

643
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 2: Then I would piss? And I do think in that

644
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 2: way like sex outside would be easier with the foulus.

645
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: Absolutely and oral of course, although isn't oral easy anywhere

646
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: for a woman?

647
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 2: Or do you really need like the bed? I would

648
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 2: call it easy, okay, you know what I mean, Like

649
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 2: you could, but it's not easy. It would be more

650
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 2: idea because you have to get a little bit more

651
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 2: to get under.

652
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: You know.

653
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: It's it's like you're kneeling and the dick is just

654
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 2: in your face. Hello, good morning Seattle. Right, ok, you

655
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 2: have to kind of get under and spread. It's a

656
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 2: little stand and finger.

657
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: Fingering, yes, which I saw it. That panel once said

658
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: that the lesbians at re speech in the seventies would

659
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: stand in a shopping bag and figure each other so

660
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: cops couldn't see under the door.

661
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 2: Exactly. That's easy. You can absolutely fin you're in a bog.

662
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the connection between sex and comedy.

663
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: Michael Bowder explains, we feel guilty and ashamed of sex,

664
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: and so what jokes do is play on our guilt

665
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 1: and shame, make us laugh and enable us to enjoy sex.

666
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: It's a form of mastery. That's so interesting because in

667
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: this context, sex becomes something we fear, something we must tame,

668
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: and comedy jokes allow us to be in control over

669
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: the dominion of sex.

670
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 2: No one said it, but sex is almost like stand

671
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: up the first time you do it. Yes, you're so

672
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 2: they're so much frame and you probably won't kill No,

673
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 2: you probably won't come.

674
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,399
Speaker 1: But when you get that first chuckle for the.

675
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 2: Audience, oh, there's nothing better.

676
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: It's the thumbs up and you say, I can keep going.

677
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 2: And it's the building, and it's the building. Yes, But

678
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 2: let's talk about actual jokes during sex.

679
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: Hmm, okay, when you're doing the borsch belt routine in

680
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:02,959
Speaker 1: the booder, I.

681
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 2: Think it's about right telling exact jokes. But I do

682
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 2: think it's so important to have a little bit of

683
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 2: humor and be able to laugh. Yeah, because also sometimes

684
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 2: things can get awkward, things can get weird.

685
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: If I may be radically vulnerable for a second. I

686
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 1: actually think that I tend to laugh more on a

687
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: second sexual outing with a man, because the first time,

688
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: oh yeah, is almost a little it's like pretty performative.

689
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 1: I mean, you're so into the fact that like, oh,

690
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: we're in a hallway, like oh, the mayor d is

691
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: coming right.

692
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,439
Speaker 2: I'm British. But then the.

693
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: Second time, I think can be more giggly. I think

694
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: as a relationship goes on and the oxytocin wanes, I

695
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: actually find you probably giggle less unless you're reacting to

696
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 1: something funny that's actually happening in real time, because you're

697
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: actual doing more fantasy work.

698
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 2: See it's so funny. I find the opposite. I actually

699
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 2: find that the giggling is even more.

700
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,720
Speaker 1: You giggle more than ever at year eleven or fifteen.

701
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I feel like more of Actually, yeah, those

702
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 2: first times are so like yeah, performative, interesting, not all

703
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 2: the time, but then like you know, sometimes it is

704
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 2: a little more giggly.

705
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: See, I feel like the sex now this is now

706
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: nobody wants this like literally, see, I feel like the

707
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: sex with my rabbi now is it's like because we've

708
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,240
Speaker 1: been in a relationship for a longer time. It's more like, Oh,

709
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: this is this is what I paid for, This is

710
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: why I subscribe to the sub stack.

711
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? No laughing aloud. It's more

712
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 2: like sometimes our laughter filled and sometimes are not. It

713
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: depends on the play session, if you will.

714
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: I guess, yes, it does depend on the play I'm

715
00:40:55,680 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: not thinking like a little chuckle. I'm thinking like big laughs.

716
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess I'm talking about more like little giggles.

717
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean little giggles are always we're talking

718
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 2: about this, Like who talk about hooping and hollering? Watching

719
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 2: Kim Katrell walk through Cyprus, I was screaming with laughter.

720
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the movie is like one of the

721
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,479
Speaker 1: funniest movies I've ever seen.

722
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 2: It's three ninety nine to round.

723
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 1: And turning around and facing camera. She'll be like walking

724
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: away and like wearing just like a weird top with

725
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: like seven key holes in it, and then like turns

726
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: around and faces the camera and just like and what's

727
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,280
Speaker 1: more interesting than sex with desire?

728
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 2: Can I ask you a question, do you think me

729
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 2: early more than parents? I actually, for me, I think

730
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 2: early media. Probably I watched define sexuality.

731
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, of course, like movies completely defined sexuality.

732
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 2: Would you like to share and be vulnerable?

733
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: I mean, like, what dominating my fantasy?

734
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 2: Or do you think what turned you on to something

735
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 2: that you didn't even know you were turned on by?

736
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 2: And you can be vague just named the film of

737
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 2: a situation interesting In music, you know, maybe the fast

738
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 2: paced techno of French electro, of daft punk. While driving?

739
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, I look back at like

740
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 1: Charlie's Angels too full Throttle and Justin Thireau and that

741
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,359
Speaker 1: film and his abs, But I also think like those

742
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 1: are obvious things. It's like, oh, it's a guy with abs.

743
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 2: Well, it's so funny you mentioned Charlie's Angels because I

744
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 2: remember walking with you in the erotic town of Salem,

745
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 2: Massachusetts once at a field trip and you said to me,

746
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 2: Lucy Lou is so hot.

747
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: That is interesting.

748
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 2: Fourteenth Yeah, and she is, for sure, she totally is.

749
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 2: And I was like, I think it was like, yes,

750
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 2: seeing girls.

751
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: Be dark, there's an anti social nest there a little

752
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,760
Speaker 1: bit because like dark girl wants to be submissive because

753
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: it's like naughty.

754
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 2: Yes, And then I think on the gay factor, it's like,

755
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 2: maybe the dark girl is most likely to kind of

756
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 2: be like be a lesbian, yeah, and not be fucking conventional.

757
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 1: Right, that's also true, and it's just like, yeah, it's

758
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,760
Speaker 1: a flouting of convention in general.

759
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 2: But then it's so virginal. But then in the opposite

760
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 2: it's you know, what's more attractive that the basic right

761
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 2: is the lacrosse player, the cheerleader who goes dark. It's funny.

762
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 1: Then I think, you know, I was so into you

763
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 1: and McGregor when we routines as well, and as I

764
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: came out as bisexual in ninth grade, I started to

765
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 1: really pursue a Uman McGregor crush with a plump and

766
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: for me, he was a man, but there was also

767
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: something a little bit gay and European about him, and

768
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: so he was there was an accessibility there that I

769
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: felt he was like a bridge to a sexuality I

770
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: could have. And I didn't yet know if I wanted

771
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: to be him or fuck him, but I was like

772
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 1: I could live in a world of europeanist one.

773
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 2: Day, yes, and I would like to bring up the

774
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,439
Speaker 2: movie that I think of kind of an ironic route

775
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 2: for me, a life less Ordinary, which is Cameron Diaz

776
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 2: and you and McGregor, and it is kind of this

777
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 2: like sexy erotic European electronic music alternative mmm mm hm.

778
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: And so once again you see your punk identity being

779
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 1: validated in the erotic narrative.

780
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 2: It is ideas. And she is more a blonde you're saying,

781
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 2: I'm not, oh so she's no, But she's kind of

782
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 2: dark in that movie, a little more like Kimeron's is

783
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 2: always a guy's girl. It's a guys girl. It's kind

784
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 2: of like, what if I said this.

785
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 1: Do you see orgasm as freedom?

786
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 2: Yes? I think she brings up in this book studies show.

787
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 2: You know, it's the only time in life, you know,

788
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 2: you're not trying to do this. Politics aren't being discussed

789
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 2: really let go.

790
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: The French of course called Le putino, which means the

791
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: little death, and it is a death because it is

792
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 1: a release quite physically literally released. But also do we

793
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,240
Speaker 1: lose our cells in create a space for something larger

794
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 1: as she argues, or is it just sensation? It's so

795
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: hard to say because it's like the one moment when

796
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 1: you really can't be thinking about something truly, except those

797
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: times though, when you know you're psyching yourself out, like

798
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, like, don't think about my dad while

799
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: I'm coming, And then like because you're trying to not

800
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: think about it, then you're thinking about it, you know,

801
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: and then you're like running your fingers along in the

802
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: dry cleaning in your dad's closet and you're just like,

803
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: why am I here?

804
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 2: Why am I here? And like you can't get out

805
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 2: of there. You're smelling his big socks. Run the marathon in.

806
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: But other than that, I feel like that's.

807
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,399
Speaker 2: Always more for pre but more during. Yeah, your lights

808
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 2: at don't think about that because that's such a thing

809
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 2: you're not supposed to think about during.

810
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:52,240
Speaker 1: It is just like total utter loss.

811
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 4: Of what you're supposed to do in this I wonder

812
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 4: you know, we haven't discussed porn yet, but you know,

813
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 4: there's a lot being said today about how porn ruins fantasm,

814
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 4: and people both on the left and right under the

815
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 4: spectrum have said that porn is changing the way that

816
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 4: people view their own sexuality and their expectations from sexual partners,

817
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 4: their expectations of their own identity, creation and how they

818
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:19,320
Speaker 4: see themselves.

819
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 1: I'm wondering to what extent that's true. Obviously, I've been

820
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: looking at porn for most of my career.

821
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:27,280
Speaker 2: As a man.

822
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 1: It's hard to say how much has influenced me or

823
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: not because I'm very into taboo, power dynamics and porn.

824
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:41,399
Speaker 1: I think the stepfather, the stepfather, the military man. It's

825
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: like the boy scout leader and the truth, the.

826
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 2: Class of the teacher, the football.

827
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: Code, Like there's always something like that, and like the

828
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 1: more like difference the cop and the guy who's been

829
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: accused of shoplifting.

830
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 2: Like it's kind of like fast food everything in moderation.

831
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 1: Oh, in terms of porn not affecting you're but it's like,

832
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: but all those fantasies to me are kind of like.

833
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 2: They're there before. Yeah, they're only they're there to kind

834
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 2: of help you come along. I don't mean to do

835
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 2: it in new ways.

836
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,359
Speaker 1: But I think the criticism would be that it's like

837
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: you're watching people like be so porny in the way

838
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 1: they move and interact with each other physically.

839
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 2: Right, they're saying that like porn ruins the way you're

840
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 2: having sex, because.

841
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: Then you're not being like curious and exploring with your

842
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 1: fingers and really inhaling someone's scent and their leather and

843
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: they're better and they're cinnamon and you're not like.

844
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 2: They're pumpkins burying your.

845
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: Like plague nose and their cinematon.

846
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 2: I know, I'm like, does Kim Katrell because.

847
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 1: You're just like thinking about a porn just kind of

848
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: watching porn.

849
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 2: I feel like she's.

850
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 1: Watching porn in a way where she's like lighting candles

851
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,839
Speaker 1: and watching like an eighties porn like with her love.

852
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 2: No, I know, I think it's like candles. I almost

853
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 2: wonder if it's like seventies it's.

854
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely older porn. But she's like interested in

855
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 1: like a new directtion.

856
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 2: Right, this is a sweetish direction, right, it's a little

857
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 2: more erotic films like whatever I happened to NC seventeen

858
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 2: an erotic film for me? Yeah, that was the Doom

859
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 2: Generation Gregor Rocky erotic thriller. Yes, I was like seeing

860
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 2: things that, like I was like, I've never seen this before,

861
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 2: and she is more of the erotic film than like

862
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,399
Speaker 2: with what she's been mareed three times but is now

863
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 2: single good for her? I know her last marriage was

864
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 2: to an audio technician.

865
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: Wow, I bet you know how to turn her mouth.

866
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 2: Because sound is also so huge.

867
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 1: Sound is really big because it's.

868
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,959
Speaker 2: About receiving the sound from your lover.

869
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 1: Yes. Sound is because if they're just.

870
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 2: Silent, then it's.

871
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 1: Like hello, Yeah, it's funny.

872
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 2: I don't know.

873
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: I'm into both.

874
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,439
Speaker 2: I'm into sound and visuals. But almost now i'm thinking

875
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 2: about it, I'm like, maybe I'm more into sound.

876
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 1: I'm into both a loud lover and also like a

877
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:55,879
Speaker 1: deadly silent lover.

878
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: Well, because that's erotic into its own. Yes, because it's

879
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:00,959
Speaker 2: like I'm taking over you're just here.

880
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: It creates more space for my sound.

881
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:09,879
Speaker 2: You're like the loud one. It's about you're the loud one,

882
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 2: and it's about kind of more. I think you're more like,

883
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 2: let me have more like the silent football coach, right,

884
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 2: so you can be Madison studies show segments how does

885
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: she live? What does she wear? What does she eat?

886
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 2: Are we doing that for? Or okay, what does she eat?

887
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:45,240
Speaker 1: Peaches, oyster, chocolate, pomeg cinnamon.

888
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 2: You know what's actually such? I think an erotic, more

889
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 2: chemicatrolic erotic meal. In this way, it's so like cherry

890
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 2: cinnamon lamb chops.

891
00:49:55,840 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: Like something kind of like so the Sandra d used

892
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 1: to have the cooking show. If you said, there's like

893
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,839
Speaker 1: someone who posts like unhinged recipes, and like there's one

894
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:10,760
Speaker 1: where she's there just like it's chocolate cherry wine ribs.

895
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 1: And she's just always been like, I'm making a blueberry

896
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: sauce for my like a dobo like chocolate tacos.

897
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 2: And that's very like I'm forty three, I'm divorced and

898
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 2: I'm seducing another forty five year old businessman. Yeah, and

899
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 2: the way to his stomach is cabernet. Yeah, and chocolate ribs.

900
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: No, She's definitely like red meat, red fruit. I mean,

901
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 1: it's just that literalism of just like red being passion

902
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 1: and so I'm gonna eat red.

903
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't think food for me, it's food.

904
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 1: Is so erotic.

905
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 2: For you, You're red side. Food is erotic. But like

906
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,280
Speaker 2: if we're talking about like what's kind of the most erotic,

907
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 2: it's being not fault I tell you that that's for me.

908
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 2: But of course, but the day food and making its full.

909
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,760
Speaker 1: There's nothing actually more food driven than lack of food,

910
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: because it's hunger. It's hunger itself, and it's hunger for

911
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,320
Speaker 1: what is it hunger for pussy or is it hunger

912
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: for veal?

913
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: Parmegan It's then feel.

914
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: Like that's really Italian like lesbian sext toy line.

915
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 2: Feel now I got veal on the braid. Okay, so

916
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 2: Kim Katrell, It's champagne, it's chocolate covered strawberries, balsamac It's

917
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 2: Mediterranean style. Yeah, it's great, believes so many.

918
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 1: It's anything that can be like fed to you while

919
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: you're reclining on a rock.

920
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 2: What does she wear?

921
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: Honestly, she should walk in a Couslado show.

922
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:55,240
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Yeah, because she's like creative nitwear. Yeah,

923
00:51:55,320 --> 00:52:00,919
Speaker 2: it's off the shoulder, elbow patches and then slits on

924
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 2: the sleeve. But then also it's like I think she's

925
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 2: still just like body con leopard coat, stilettos, sweater.

926
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 1: Because she's pushing seventy and she looks amazing and she

927
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: is just kind of being like, I'm gonna do classic

928
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: power women's beltic stuff. Obviously, her character in The Sex

929
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,879
Speaker 1: and the City dresses in this really loud.

930
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 2: Like business Patricia sex business.

931
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 1: One where she's always wearing like a crazy pink suit

932
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 1: and like the animal prim send.

933
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 2: Like the belt. In her personal life, I.

934
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: Think she is like more sexy, but it's more coastal

935
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: because she grew up on Vancouver Island. It's always like

936
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 1: a little bit rocky, a little bit like.

937
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 2: She's sitting actually looking over because she's cold beat and

938
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 2: I think she's wrapping her maybe nude body in a

939
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:51,320
Speaker 2: huge cashmir blanket.

940
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 1: Yes and throws yes, and like booties.

941
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 2: She's not like very sneaker. I don't think no oh,

942
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 2: and I think she is stilettos and like stomping on

943
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 2: her audio. Guy, how does she live?

944
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: She's definitely has framed photos of boundary bursting burlesque babes

945
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 1: like j Baker ships.

946
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 2: On her wall and so May West quotes same. And

947
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 2: also I think it's like paintings of legs. Yeah, and

948
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 2: fallus sculptures. Its house so fabulous. It's sexy Buddha.

949
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,720
Speaker 1: And does she live in like Scotland, Toronto or.

950
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 2: I think she's London, Okay, And so also she's pulling

951
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 2: out like ancient.

952
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 1: She hates Carrie Bradshaw. She lives in London. So what

953
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 1: I like about this book is at the end there's

954
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 1: not even a note from her. There's just a note

955
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 1: from the publisher. The publisher would like to acknowledge with

956
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:57,320
Speaker 1: enormous thanks the following people for their invaluable help on flagging, enthusiasm, generosity,

957
00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: and grace during the making this book. Kim Ktrell, who

958
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 1: gave a this wonderful opportunity to work with her. They're

959
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: kind of being like, she didn't write it, but we

960
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 1: thank her for sort of for involvement in the book.

961
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:09,799
Speaker 2: And then this big quote, desire is like the sun,

962
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 2: It nurtures, it burns, it's heat irresistible. You're like, oh, okay, Waters,

963
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:18,320
Speaker 2: I mean earth.

964
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 1: Desire is life is Freud said, everything is erotic. I

965
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 1: don't know if it's a direct quote, but it's basically

966
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 1: what his kind of thing was. And it's like, I

967
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 1: do think the lesson of the book is it's like

968
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 1: sexuality is in everything, and it informs everything we do,

969
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 1: and if you are not in touch with the living world,

970
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:35,879
Speaker 1: in the world around you, your sex life is not.

971
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 2: Going to be satisfying exactly. I don't think it is

972
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,399
Speaker 2: an on and off switch, and I think we need

973
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 2: to kind of throw these ideas of what turns a

974
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 2: man on what turns a woman on? It's really what

975
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:47,320
Speaker 2: turns mom or Earth.

976
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: On, yes, and what turns her off? Climate change?

977
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 2: Thank you, so use plastics d growth. Now.

978
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: Also, let me just note the book was printed in Singapore.

979
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 2: That makes sense. I feel like she like.

980
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 1: Had this idea and like told the documentary to HBO

981
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 1: and they're like, I mean, we can't say no because

982
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: like in the city is like such a big deal.

983
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 1: You can kind of do whatever you want. But like

984
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: we al should have a book to random and they

985
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 1: like went to random house and they were like.

986
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 2: This is random, Okay, who are you in the book?

987
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you're kind of aphrodity or I

988
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 2: was emerging from the sea. Thank you.

989
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 1: But you're also affro dating because you are such a

990
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 1: water book.

991
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 2: No, I know, and I'm always coming out like both mean,

992
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 2: like what happened in there? I don't know. I give

993
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 2: this book well, I give the documentary film five to

994
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 2: five out of five fallacies. The book, the photography, the

995
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 2: visuals are amazing. Personally, I would like a lot more

996
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 2: personal information from Kim on like what turns her on,

997
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 2: but I respect her privacy. I guess at the end

998
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 2: of the.

999
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:15,400
Speaker 1: Day, Yeah, it's pretty random, or even more about like

1000
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 1: I don't know because the stories in the book it

1001
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 1: is so general, it's just studies show. It could have

1002
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 1: been more interesting. She was a little bit more like

1003
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 1: when we were in Cyprus, like I saw this hot guy, yeah,

1004
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: or like I talked to the Cypriot, like who has said.

1005
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 2: Dating like this is? Like at first did laugh in the.

1006
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: Journey and I wish it were a little bit more

1007
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 1: of a global survey of sexuality and a little less

1008
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 1: just like study show.

1009
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 2: And then the five Toronto bisexuals that she go watch.

1010
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 2: The movie branded on Apple TV do Yourself a Favor,

1011
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:54,240
Speaker 2: Okay best CEO. Stephen and Lily was produced by.

1012
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 1: One in four women in the Italian Peninsula who've never

1013
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 1: had an orgasm.

1014
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:06,400
Speaker 5: Darby Masters, supervising producer is a man in Toronto who's

1015
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 5: dated many women at one time and lives to tell

1016
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 5: the tale Aboo Zafar. It was also produced by the

1017
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 5: Goddess herself, Christina Efron.

1018
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 1: Our engineer was New York photographer Bahid Fraser, who's been

1019
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 1: capturing glimpses of women's private parts since the early two

1020
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 1: thousands in and around the New York City area.

1021
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 2: Music actually is full of sex and thank god we

1022
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 2: have a theme song by a sexy music producer known

1023
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:37,919
Speaker 2: as Stephen Phillipswurst.

1024
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 1: The concept for this podcast, which originally created by seminal

1025
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: sexologist and podcast production company Prolog Projects. We're no longer

1026
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: affiliated with them, but we wish them the best in

1027
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 1: their erotic journey.

1028
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 2: Find us and support our research on Patreon, dot com,

1029
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 2: slash CBC the pod, and a huge thank you to

1030
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 2: all of our lovers who have been leaving make five

1031
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 2: Star Refuse. They make us feel very pleased.