WEBVTT - #236 Jason Flom with Thomas Haynesworth 0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:05.160 Beginning on January third, nineteen eighty four, and stretching over 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.400 the next five weeks, five women were victims of some 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.240 degree of sexual assault in East Richmond, Virginia. Due to 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.680 the location, nature of the attacks and similar descriptions of 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:18.520 the assailant, police believed that there was a single attacker. 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:22.200 On February fifth, nineteen eighty four, eighteen year old Thomas 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:24.600 Hainsworth was misidentified. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:25.360 By one of the victims and arrested. 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:30.040 All five victims eventually echoed the misidentification. Two of the 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:33.920 attacks included biological evidence, but in nineteen eighty four, with 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:39.240 no DNA testing available, roology could only determine that Thomas's blood. 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:40.800 Type matched that of the attacker. 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:43.760 After one of the charges was dropped, he was tried 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:47.960 four separate times, convicted in three cases, and sentenced to 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:51.800 seventy four years. Although Thomas was in custody, the assaults 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:55.120 continued through December of nineteen eighty four, concluding with the 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:58.920 arrest of Leon Davis, a neighbor of Thomas's. According to 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:03.280 both men, they wrongly resembled one another. Despite their similar 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:07.119 appearances and the continued attacks. Authorities maintained that both men 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:10.760 were guilty. Finally, in two thousand and five, DNA testing 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:14.160 excluded Thomas from his only conviction in which there was 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:20.440 biological evidence, simultaneously inculpating Leon Davis. After an investigation, the 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:24.080 prosecutors joined Thomas and the mid Atlantic Inniscence Project, laying 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:28.360 responsibility for all of the attacks on mister Davis. Yet, 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:32.840 even without opposition, Thomas's case just barely succeeded in the 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:37.120 Court of Appeals, but nevertheless he was finally exonerated after 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:56.720 twenty seven years. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.480 Wrongful Conviction. I'm your host, Jason Flaman. I want to 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:03.720 start by say this episode demonstrates a classic example of 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:08.840 why eyewitness identification is so terribly unreliable and why we 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:14.239 must keep working to institute practices that safeguard us against 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:20.120 the problems with cross racial misidentification as happened in this case, 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.400 keeping an innocent man in prison for twenty seven years. 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:28.000 And that man is our guest today, Thomas Hainsworth. Thomas, 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:30.920 I'm so happy to have you here, even though I 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:34.720 hate the reason why you're here, but thank you for taking. 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:36.160 The time to be with us on the show today. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:40.440 You're wil And with Thomas as somebody who our avid 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:45.239 listeners will recognize. Sean Arburst is the sort of the 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:48.560 straw that stirs the drink at the mid Atlantic Innocence Project. 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:52.160 She is an attorney, she's an advocate, she's a fighter, 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:55.840 and she's my friend. And I'm super glad to have 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.400 you here as well, Shawn, So welcome back to Rawful Conviction. 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.639 Thank you, Jason. Great to be here, and it always 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:02.919 grew to be with Thomas. 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.720 So Thomas, take us back, if you would, what was 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:08.440 your life like growing up? 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.000 No, Michelle grew up with three sisters and a younger brother, 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:15.040 you know, into sports, into music, Like I said, my 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:16.720 child it was falling friend, you know. 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:19.120 And you grew up in Richmond, Virginia. 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:20.240 Is that right, right? 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:21.400 Richmond, Virginia? Right? 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:25.000 So it sounds about like what the childhood is more 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.120 or less I want to say supposed to be like, 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.040 but pretty much sports music. You know. I'm sure you 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.520 had your ups and downs like any other teenager. But 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:36.040 a series of terrible, terrible crimes sort of rock the 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:40.040 city of Richmond at this time. And Sean, can you 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.040 describe to us what happened? 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:46.000 So the crimes Thomas initially got caught up in were 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:50.400 a group of five crimes between January third and February 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:53.560 first of nineteen eighty four, and they were all rapes 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:57.400 or sexual assaults in the tiny corner of Richmond that's 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.480 also right on the border of Henryko County. It was 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.440 four crimes in Richmond, one in Henrico County. And these 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.920 are eerily similar crimes. They happen at the same time 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:12.360 of day, all white victims. They all describe I mean, 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:15.560 it's a fairly generic description because it's white victims describing 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:18.839 a black perpetrator. But they all describe someone who looks 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:25.360 fairly similar, someone who typically approaches with a knife, who 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:28.800 has a series of kind of odd behaviors, says a 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:32.320 bunch of odd things. So the sort of prototypical one 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:35.920 of these crimes was either early in the morning or 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:40.960 right around dusk. Victim would be approached by a perpetrator 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:45.719 outside on the street, and the perpetrator would take the 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:49.760 victim to various locations and commit different types of sexual assault, 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:55.200 so sometimes vaginal rape, sometimes oral sodomy, sometimes adle sodomy, 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.760 and would make the victims kind of pretend to be 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:02.800 his girlfriend as they were walking around. And when you're 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:06.120 looking at a pattern like this, obviously not every crime 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:10.960 fits precisely into the pattern. Some get interrupted. In this case, 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:13.920 the attacker was pretty easily scared away. This is part 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:17.000 of how he avoided being caught for so long. But 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:22.719 it's that same basic arc and these are terrifying crimes. 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:25.279 And the first case the one that said all of 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:27.680 this in motion. I believe it was not only the 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:31.680 crime itself that was so jarring, but also the location 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:34.880 that had occurred in that threw the story to the forefront. 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:36.480 So tell us what happened there. 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.240 The first case took place on January third, and the 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.600 victim in that case went to her work at a 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:47.200 church preschool and she was waiting for students to come 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:51.200 in for the day and was very quickly accosted by 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:55.400 a rapist who held her at nice point, raped her, 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.680 and ran away as the first parents started coming in 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:01.800 for the day. And so, you know, if you can 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:04.320 imagine it, a woman who she's in her late teen's 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:09.719 early twenties, she is in a church, she is waiting 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:12.719 for three year olds to come in and is dealing 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:15.560 with the fact that she's just been raped. So right, 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:20.159 off the bat, these crimes are really horrific and the 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:23.279 kind of crime that make you think you're not safe anywhere, right, 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:27.839 And I think it's that mentality that really started making 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.400 these crimes particularly high profile in Richmond. 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:34.200 And the second crime took place just a few weeks 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:36.800 after the first, on January twenty first, and it took 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.560 place in a grocery store. Again, I think it added 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:43.920 to the horror that these assaults were happening in places 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.920 that we normally think of as being safe spaces, right, 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.760 A nursery school, a grocery store, And they continued on 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:56.120 with alarming regularity, because then the time between the crimes 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:59.920 started shrinking. So we're talking about on January twenty seven, 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.440 and so now only six days after the second attack, 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:06.279 a man with a knife approached a woman outside of 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:10.000 her home and demanded money and sex. Sheilo luckily went 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:12.560 inside and slammed the door shut and locked it and 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.600 called the police, so she escaped. Then on January thirtieth, 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.520 so just three days later, an eighteen year old woman 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:23.520 was abducted, raped, and sodomized at gunpoint in Henrico County, 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:25.680 just a few blocks from the other attacks. And then 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:29.640 on February first, So again, the windows are just shrinking 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:33.440 faster and faster. A nineteen year old woman was adducted 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.960 at gunpoint outside her East Richmond home. The gunman forced 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:39.360 her to go inside the house, but he fled when 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.920 the family dog began barking at him. And wow, I mean, 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.600 what a close call that was. So all of these 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:50.080 incidents happened within a one mile radius. This guy was 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:53.239 almost begging to be caught, but he continued getting away 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.040 with it. Now, because of the locations of the attacks, 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:58.480 a description of the attacker, and the nature of the assaults, 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:01.520 everyone was pretty much on the same page that it 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:04.720 was one person that was responsible, right, But what happens 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:08.440 in these cases that we see again and again is 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:12.600 that there was a misidentification which set this awful chain 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.920 of events in motion. Take us through that, Sean, if 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:16.480 you don't mind. 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:21.360 Absolutely. So, Thomas was walking to the store to get 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:25.360 sweet potatoes for his mom and one of the victims 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.720 saw him and said, that's my rapist. She called police. 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:34.400 Police came picked him up, arrested him, and then four 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.600 more victims identified him as the perpetrator, and that was it. 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.600 Now, these are all cross racial eye with its identifications, 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:45.280 and that comes with its own problems already, and we 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:48.440 find out later that the actual perpetrator did in fact 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:51.360 resemble Thomas as well, just adding to the confusion and 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.000 making it even harder for the victims to make the 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.319 correct idea. But before we even get into that, Sean, 0:08:57.400 --> 0:08:59.960 can you tell us a bit about cross racial idea 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:01.160 dentification in general. 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.520 So what we know, and we know this based on 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:09.680 now decades of social science research, is that people are 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:13.280 not good at identifying people of different races. We also 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:18.320 know that white people are particularly bad at identifying people 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:23.440 of different races, particularly when those people are African American. 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.040 So what we have seen over and over and over 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.600 again is that the likelihood of an error by an 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:35.400 eyewitness is just magnified when it is a cross racial identification, 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:39.760 that is, a white person identifying a black person. If 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:44.760 you look at the actual percentage of black on white 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:49.000 rapes in the country, it is infinitesimally small. If you 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:53.360 look at the percentage of DNA exonerations in rape cases 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:58.000 that are black on white rape, it is extraordinarily large. 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:01.040 And just those two numbers can tell you all you 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.840 need to know about the enhanced risk of error when 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:07.400 you have black and white idea. 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:10.920 Yeah, and it fits into the stereotype, this sort of 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:15.480 racist mythology that has been a part of unfortunately, our 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.920 culture and our judicial system for as long as we've 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:19.440 had one. 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:22.760 And then you can't look at the cross racial nature 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:26.280 of these crimes and not talk about where you are 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:28.960 and when you're there. So you're in Richmond, which is 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:32.280 the capital of the Confederacy, and it's nineteen eighty four, 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:37.720 and you cannot divorce these cases from that time period 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:38.760 and that place either. 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:43.120 Now, Thomas, tell us what happened when they arrested you 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:44.480 and what was going through your mind. 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:47.600 These stopped me in the morning. They said, the lady 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:49.959 she picked you out, and she can dentify you. And 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:51.760 that's where I was going. I said, I'm going to 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:54.040 the store. He said what he used to do. Right here, 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:56.080 she could identify the person. I said, yeah, I ain't 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:58.959 gonna have que I'm not gonna want So they want 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.120 to get the female big and brought it back and 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:04.280 she looked at me like she won too shore and 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:06.720 then he sees some tour and she looked at me 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:09.360 again like she won too. Shoe about the person, and 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:11.480 then they did it for the third time. They talked 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:13.080 to her in the third time and she just put 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:15.040 her hands up, and then they came and said he 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:17.440 was unarrest said, I'm the rest for what. They put 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:19.720 her handcufs on me and they put me in back patrol 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:22.560 car and he took me to the Richardson in jail and. 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:25.199 They got dan Neil. Then when it came to reality, 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:26.000 to me what was. 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:29.480 Going on the child's will, rape, production and burking the innswer, 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:31.680 I ain't know what to think, you know. 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:47.520 This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company, 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:51.440 and by Accenture, a global professional services company with leading 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:55.520 capabilities in digital, cloud and security. Working to reform the 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:58.000 criminal justice system is a key pillar of the AIG 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.840 pro Bono program, which provides relegal services and other support 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:06.240 to many nonprofit organizations and individuals most in need as 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:10.040 part of Excensure's commitment to racial and civil justice. Accenture's 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:14.239 Legal Access program provides pro bono legal services in partnership 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:18.080 with more than forty organizations, bringing meaningful change to people 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:29.760 and communities worldwide. Okay, so the initial identification at least from. 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:31.400 Your perspective looked shaky right. 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:33.480 The victim seemed to go back and forth a few 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.600 times until throwing her hands up in the air. Then 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:42.000 you're arrested, and eventually all five victims misidentified you as 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:46.480 the attacker. All five dealing with the cross racial nature 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.080 of this idea as well as the fact that you 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.760 actually did resemble the attacker. So you're charged with rape, 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:55.520 along with a slew of other charges that came with 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:59.720 each incident. I'm talking about our abduction, breaking and entering, robbery, 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:01.320 and then you go to trial. 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.360 One of my lord they came with suggestion, you know 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:05.680 you got these seed childs. I think it the best 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:07.920 you will. Please get to, you know, get a life sentence, 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:10.640 to get fishball role with Somewhere down the line you 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.280 got aldy seated charge. You're going to get a license, 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:15.280 And I said, now, I'm not gonna plead get into nothing. 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:15.559 Ain't do. 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.120 I said, I'd rather pull the try out and I 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:20.160 could be found get to convict the license. 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:21.880 I deal with it, but I'm never getting my right 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:22.880 up to be innocent though. 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.560 So you've got your own defense team trying to push 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:31.760 you to admit guilt, which is not unfortuately exactly uncommon. Obviously, 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:35.120 some people are actually guilty while others plead guilty just 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:38.640 because it's a smarter decision to do so. I mean, 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.480 fased with the choice of a lenient sentence or the 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:45.520 unknown at trial, right, especially when life or even death 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:48.559 sentences are you know, dangling over your head. I mean, 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:52.160 with that at play. It's no wonder that convictions are 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.040 obtained through guilty please, at a rate of close to 0:13:55.520 --> 0:14:00.640 ninety eight percent, right over ninety seven percent a melody. 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:02.480 Convictions of the United States are a result of guilty. 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:02.760 Please. 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:07.079 It's a very understandable choice to make. But when given 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.640 that choice, Thomas, you held firm in your innocence. I mean, 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:14.720 that's a courageous and principled stand to take. Now, Okay, 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:16.280 so we go to the trial, right, or should I 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:20.040 say the trials, because there were four separate trials. The 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.840 charges in the January twenty seventh incident where the attacker 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.240 approached with a knife and the victim fled to her house, 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.200 those charges were dropped. So for the four trials, though 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:32.640 the prosecution relied on the victims misidentifications of Thomas. Now, 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:36.040 in two of the four cases, there was some biological evidence, 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.280 but in the early eighties there was no DNA testing, 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:40.960 only sorology, right. 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.040 Yeah, what you have in terms of physical evidence in 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:48.120 the nineteen eighties is you can test semen for blood type, 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.680 and you also can test for something that's known as 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:54.600 secretor status. If I am a secretor I'm somebody whose 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:58.120 blood type shows up in my other bodily fluids. So 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:00.400 like if I spit on a table, you can figure 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.200 out my blood type from the spit. A non sec 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:05.800 rereader is somebody whose blood type isn't in the spit, 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.680 So they were in you know, at least a couple 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:12.240 of Thomas's cases able to do that very limited amount 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:16.040 of science, but that's science. It could give you percentages, 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.160 but the percentages were pretty big, right, So think about 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:21.800 all the people in the world who have type oh blood. Well, 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:25.440 that's what you can really narrow down to. So you know, 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:29.680 Thomas was in that case in the population of people 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.440 who could have committed the crime. But that's a really 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:35.000 big population of people. 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.600 Right, So it really doesn't do a great job of 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:41.560 proving anything at all. Zerology is actually really better at 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:45.280 ruling a suspect out rather than in and There's also 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.600 a moment in one of the trials where Thomas's height 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.680 should have ruled him completely out. 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:56.560 So in the case in Henrico County, the victim had 0:15:56.680 --> 0:16:01.200 sworn and believed correctly, it turns out that her rapist 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.280 was taller than her. She described the rapist as being 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:08.640 about five to ten Thomas's five six. So Thomas's lawyer 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:10.920 actually had the two of them stand next to each 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:14.920 other in that trial to demonstrate that Thomas was actually 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.560 shorter than this victim. But this is part of why 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:20.160 I witnessed testimony is so powerful. Right, This still didn't 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.480 shake her confidence that Thomas was the perpetrator. She was 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:27.000 still one hundred percent sure that Thomas did it. And 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:30.280 so there's not much a defense lawyer could do in 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:33.280 nineteen eighty four in the face of that kind of testimony. 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.600 So the charges had been dropped in the January twenty 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.240 seventh incident, but you still had to sit through similar 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:43.560 proceedings four times over, where the facts of four very real, 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:48.520 unspeakably horrible assaults were presented, but along with no meaningful 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.720 physical evidence to implicate you, even the fact that you 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.880 didn't match the January thirtieth victims, description of the assailant's height. 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:58.600 And now the jury goes out four times on you, 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.800 and I've got to imagine that the first time was 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.800 probably the hardest pill to swallow. Right the January third 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.920 break in and rape at the nursery school. How long 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:10.040 did that particular trial last? 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:12.600 I reme in the first trial they last I think 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:13.399 a day and a half. 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:16.800 The Jid could not come to a verdict, and Jill 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:19.560 Center back home overnight and told them to think about him, 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:21.800 and they came back the next day, I think about 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:24.040 three hours they deliberated, and then they came back for. 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.520 The gilt, the virtue. And I was devastated. 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:31.240 My family devastated because the three charges at the beginning 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.840 with rape, breaking the interest, and Robert Lloyd got them 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:36.760 to miss the robber child. So I left the jew 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:39.479 only with two charges and rape and bringing the interest. 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:41.879 They came back. Their family get to the rape, but 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.520 their family not get to breaking into the entrant. The 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:46.960 parpartrat had to break into the place and rate the person. 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:48.760 So I would wonder how you could find me guilt 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.200 to on one and not the other. And I noticed 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:54.360 something about the jerid and all my trials, every time 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.159 their family guilty, they give me the lowest sentence on 0:17:57.200 --> 0:17:59.960 each charges. If they cared fired in life, they get 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.320 five year. If you get twenty to life, they give 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:06.000 me twenty years. Because they had no sustained evidence that 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:07.520 placed me at the cram scene. 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:09.840 The only thing to hear is her words against my worry. 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.199 So now you're since ten years, and I mean, this 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:15.560 would seem to be the worst day in anybody's life, 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:17.480 but you have to still stay on trial in these 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:21.520 other cases. Then you got thirty six years for January thirtieth, 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:24.680 Then you were acquitted for the January twenty first incident, 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:28.520 and finally wrongfully convicted again for the February first incident 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.240 and sentenced to another twenty eight years. I mean, it's 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:34.960 hard to even read this stuff, and you lived it, 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:39.159 and thus begins your saga of being a number instead 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:39.640 of a name. 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:42.199 When I got into the penitential, I think was that 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:44.800 I'm not gonna see here lay there to take this. 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:47.320 I'm not gonna sit here and to be a part 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:49.560 of this corrupt system. I'm not gonna sit here that 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:51.680 accept your selve it for my family and my life. 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:53.640 You know, at the age of eighteen, I'm not gonna see, 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:55.359 you know, waste all my life and penitendence. So I 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:57.760 had to go there. I'm right to the end. I 0:18:57.800 --> 0:18:59.639 had things I know I had to do when I 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:01.520 first added to the system. The third thing I asked 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.800 with the old library was and I signed them for that. 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:06.480 Then I signed up for the GED class and I 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:08.840 signed them for college. So my thing was that, you know, 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:10.760 I won't prove these people wrong. Now I'm in the 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:12.679 place that I had to grew up overnight. I had 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:16.040 become a man over night. It took me three years 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.480 just to open up to people. I did nothing for 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:20.959 three years this working went to school. I had to 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:23.280 learn quick and be quick on my feet of thinking 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:25.320 all the time. And you know, I had a couple 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.840 older guys guide me, telling me the young blood sign 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.040 up for school, take all the trades, and take a 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:33.720 opportunity to and get some of the guys that stayed 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:35.199 me in the right way. And they gave me good 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:36.359 device and I took each to that. 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:39.119 Well, it sounds like there were some good people in 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:41.760 there who were mentors to you. So I guess there 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:45.040 was a little bit of light in this miserable dark tunnel. 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:45.640 That you were in. 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:48.879 And now we've got to turn our attention to a 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:52.040 very important part of this terrible story, which is that 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:56.160 while you were incarcerated, when the rapes should have stopped, 0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:01.160 they didn't stop at all. They actually increased. They continued 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:05.200 throughout the East Richmond area, where another at least ten 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:08.840 women reported being attacked by a young African American man 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.879 who actually asked his victims to call the police and 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:15.840 referred to him as the quote black ninja. Now, on 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.679 December nineteenth, nineteen eighty four, two Richmond residents saw a 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.480 man following a woman down the street. He was arrested. 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:25.640 This was a guy named Leon Davis. Now this is crazy, right. 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:29.160 So Leon was actually your neighbor, Thomas, and you saw 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:33.159 him on January thirtieth, right after that incident. But it 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:37.040 didn't click for you, right, The dots didn't connect until 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:40.080 you were hearing the victim's story and the witnesses at 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:42.760 your own preliminary hearing for that incident. 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:45.880 Right, what was on January thirtieth? 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:48.360 I was in my nixt birthday pond and I came 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:50.880 outside of the front one of my friend they did 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:53.120 who was on the front talking and Leon Davis came 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:54.120 from the side of the house. 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:56.520 He's a leopard, and I looked at him. I said, well, 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:57.000 happ to you? 0:20:57.520 --> 0:20:59.800 And he said I would come down downtown mess with 0:20:59.880 --> 0:21:02.320 the white girls down there, and so they'll say, man, 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:03.560 you don't you gonna put me down there? 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:06.240 He said yeah, he said, it chased me and I failed. 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:07.000 It hit my leg. 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:10.840 At that time I had on one interacted with him. 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:13.600 So then when my preminer here and when the victor 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:16.520 seid what happened? How she told her friend and he 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:19.159 chased them. I was saying to myself, Wow, there was 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:21.359 to day on my niece birthday party. I was at 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:23.080 home the day and I told my lawyer, I said, 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:25.200 look at this guy named lil Lin in the street 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:27.359 from me. I think he had something to do with it. 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:29.440 And I told her to take the heart. Also, the 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:31.680 leader taken on my case. But you know, my worry 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:32.200 fell on death. 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:33.560 Yeah. They ain't pay me, no man. 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:36.640