1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you as always 3 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: so much fortuning in we are. Uh we're talking about 4 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: losers today. Oh man, I'm a loser baby, so why 5 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: don't you kill me? Speaking of that air, remember that band, 6 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: the Presidents of the United States of America. Yeah, changed 7 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: the world with only five strings between them. Yeah. I 8 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: was about to say, yeah, that was their whole gimmick, 9 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: but I really listened to a couple of their tunes. 10 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: They had that song Lump, which I think is still 11 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: kind of a banger. Uh. And then of course Connat 12 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: forget peaches, you know, being situated where we are millions 13 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: of peaches, peaches for me? Um, you like peaches, Ben, Yeah, 14 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: I'm not averse to a peach. There's something I think 15 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: my childhood view of peaches was probably skewed because I 16 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: had had to pick them in the past. And then 17 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: also growing up, there were a lot of poems out 18 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: there about how sensual peaches are, so theoic fruits exactly, 19 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: so that that was a weird thing for young Ben 20 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: to hear. And and your noll and that's our super 21 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: producer Max Williams, who also Max, this idea was your concept. 22 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: You came to us with this. We think it's gonna 23 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: be a continuing series. We're not going to do them 24 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: all consecutively because, as it turns out, maybe we're being 25 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: a little unfair when we call these folks losers. The 26 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: better term would be people who repeatedly and on six 27 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: fully ran for president, which is, you know, there's no 28 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: shame in that only forty six people have ever had 29 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: the job, right, Yeah, I mean it's definitely you're in 30 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: somewhat of a rarefied air, you know, um, with that 31 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: particular job. And as we know, it doesn't necessarily like 32 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: pay a gazillion dollars, but it does afford some pretty 33 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: serious opportunities after the fact for book deals. And not 34 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: to mention all of the the associations and contacts that 35 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: you make well in that job that you can then 36 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: parlay into other interesting gigs as a civilian. Oh yeah, 37 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: good call on that. When you got the book deals, 38 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: you got the speaking circuit, you've got all sorts of 39 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 1: boards and foundations. Yeah, you're and you get a pension 40 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: unless you really mess up. So if you have been president, 41 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: even an unpopular president. Uh, then you are pretty well 42 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: set up for the rest of your life in the 43 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: in the public sector. But we know, we know there 44 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: are elections in democracies, which means there has to be 45 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: a loser, there has to be a winner, and we 46 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: all remember the names of the winners because you know, 47 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: history is sort of written by the winners when you 48 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 1: think about it. But like Max pointed out, we don't 49 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 1: know the names of a lot of the unsuccessful candidates, 50 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: you know, like the gold Waters for instance, or the 51 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: uh Samuel J. Tilden's. You would know about that if 52 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: you are an historian or if you're a big presidential 53 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: history buff. And uh, I don't you know what this 54 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: reminded me of at the top. And I know we're 55 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: going to talk about it later. But when you guys 56 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: were growing up and you're in history class in school, 57 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,839 Speaker 1: did you ever hear those stories where the teacher would say, well, 58 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln ran and then he lost, but he didn't 59 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: give up. And that's America, you know, as America, baby, 60 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: never give up. But sometimes that perseverance ain't for nothing. 61 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: It can pay off. Sometimes. We've got five presidents in 62 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: particular where that stick tuitiveness that can do spirit has 63 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: in fact led to great success. We've got your Thomas Jefferson's, 64 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: and Andrew Jackson's and William Henry Harrison's and Grover Cleveland's 65 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: of the world, and also Richard Nixon, who was a 66 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: loser for a different reason. All these fellas finished as 67 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: a second place winners, runner ups, also rans, but then 68 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: they later won themselves the presidential election. But unfortunately, there 69 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: were quite a few um folks, maybe not quite a few, 70 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: but a few folks who ran on a major party 71 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: ticket a second time and lost, and two folks who 72 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: even did it a third time and uh also lost 73 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: that third time. And before we get into our examples 74 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: for part one of this series, I just gotta note 75 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: that's kind of unusual for jobs in general. If you 76 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: apply for a job and they say you're not the 77 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: right fit, and then you come back next year and 78 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: you say how about now, And then you come back 79 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: the third time and say how about now. I'm gonna 80 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 1: say it's even worse than that bend. So it would 81 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: be like, you know, if I came here and I 82 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: talked to you about it and you're like, yeah, mix, 83 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: I'll see you took me up to the I hearts 84 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 1: high ups and they're now, he's good. And then a 85 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: year later I came to you and you said, yeah, 86 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:25,799 Speaker 1: let's do that again. And we go to the higher 87 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: ups and like, no, no, seriously, we're not doing this. 88 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: We did a third time because it's like they got 89 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: the nomination from their party a couple of times, not 90 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: like they just showed up and said let's do this. 91 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: You know, it's funny about that, maxas Nolan, I have 92 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: done that exact thing before with some of our Deam members. 93 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: I assumed as much. But because we could be we 94 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: could be a bit tenacious. Now, I think that's you know, 95 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: I think that's a good character quality for both of us. 96 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: Maybe that makes us regular. Charles C. Pinkneys not to 97 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: be confused with another guy named just Charles Pinkney is important. Yeah, 98 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: this is very different people. We're talking here today about 99 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 1: Charles Coostworth Pinkney of February of the twenty five, seventeen 100 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: hundred and forty six. He was a soldier, diplomat, statesman 101 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: UH destined for a life of public service. Um In 102 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: seventeen sixty nine, he became a member of the South 103 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: Carolina Assembly, served his country in the South Carolina First 104 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: Provincial Congress of seventeen seventy five, and he later um 105 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: was a member of both houses of the South Carolina 106 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: Legislate tour. Yeah, yeah, so he's involved in politics from 107 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: early on. His involvement in American politics pre dates the 108 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: United States. That's how old school he is. He later 109 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: worked with George Washington in a couple of different capacities. 110 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: He commanded a regiment in Savannah Up. He was there 111 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: at the Constitutional Convention along with his cousin, the other 112 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: guy named Charles Pinkney. And and here's what went down 113 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: with our buddy Chuck. It's sevent The Federalist Party, which 114 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: was still a big thing, supports John Adams for president. 115 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: But their vote got split, and because their vote got split, 116 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: Old Tommy J. Thomas Jefferson became the vice president. And 117 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: this was this is something that I think all students 118 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: of US history have found kind of weird for a 119 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: while there at the beginning, if you won the election, 120 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: you became president. The guy who was running against you, 121 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: or excuse me, the person who is running against you, 122 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: automatically became vice president. So your worst nemesis is supposed 123 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: to be your co pilot of democracy. It made for 124 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: some awkward state dinners. We can only imagine. Oh, absolutely, 125 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: it sure did. Election was in fact a rematch between 126 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: Adams and Jefferson in order to keep the same result 127 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: from transpiring a second time, repeating the seventeen nineties six elections. 128 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: Both parties um essentially wanted to ensure that their electors 129 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: were united. You know those those those tricks the electors, right, 130 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: those are the ones that the members of the college. Yeah, exactly. 131 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,959 Speaker 1: So they said, let's move as a unit, Let's be 132 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: a unified front. We don't want the enemy in our 133 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:47,719 Speaker 1: house again. So Adams on the Federalist side runs with 134 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: uh whom the person Max's side referred to as our boy, 135 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: Charles Coatsworth Pinckney, while Jefferson's running mate was u the 136 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: infamous Aaron Burr of Hamilton's fame. That whole election could 137 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: be its own episode. But the long story short, as 138 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: the Internet says the t L d R version, is 139 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: that their system didn't work. It wasn't the best idea. 140 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: Jefferson still became president instead of Aaron Burr, So Charles 141 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: Pinkney is not in the game. But he doesn't give up. 142 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: He takes this on the chin, he hits the he 143 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: hits the floor of the boxing ring, and he says, 144 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: you know, he gets up like Captain America. He's like, 145 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: I could do this all day. And he runs for 146 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: president again in eighteen o four, and this did not 147 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: go particularly well. Um. Jefferson was in a particularly good position, 148 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: the kaw bird seat as it were, to win that 149 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: second term. Um. He had maintained moderate policy agendas that 150 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: helped him kind of become the sort of go between 151 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: the of the parties, the Federalists and Democratic Republicans um 152 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: to you know, basically playing partisan politics. Jefferson secured all 153 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: of the electors except just just a couple of Connecticut, 154 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: Delaware and two of Maryland's votes, and Pinckney then would 155 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: go on to try again in eighteen o eight, and 156 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: this time things looked a lot more sunshiny for the guy. Thomas. 157 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: Jefferson had kind of blessed James Madison, who was his 158 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: Secretary of States, given him the the old the successorship 159 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: kind of you know, seal of approval. Um. But there 160 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: was this thing that could cause sort of like a 161 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: bit of an outcry, a bit of an uproar amongst 162 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: the citizen read the Embargo Act of eighteen oh seven, 163 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: which was a risky foreign policy maneuver Jefferson and Madison 164 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: had come up with, and it had some unfortunate, unintended consequences, 165 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: some negative impacts on the States economy, and it led 166 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: to kind of fracturing within the Democratic Republican Party, some 167 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: sort of splintering of of of groups. Yeah, so the 168 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: Embargo Act is pretty it's a pretty broad brush, to 169 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: be honest. The idea was that Uncle Sam wanted to 170 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: stop the United Kingdom stopped written from basically pressing American 171 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: sailors into non consensual service, and as like, that's the 172 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: seed of the idea. What it ended up being is 173 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: a general trade embargo on all foreign nations, which is 174 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: very bad for a young nation. Right, so this was 175 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: terrible for business. It doesn't make Jefferson look great. And 176 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: the Federalist Party, which again still a thing, it says, 177 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: you know, you guys aren't even going far enough with 178 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 1: how bad the Embargo Act is. As a matter effect, 179 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: we think James Madison is working against this country. We 180 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: find him seditious, traitorous, because how else could you explain 181 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: such a stupid, unhelpful policy. And uh, because of that 182 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: in this time of chaos, uh C C. Pinks Charles C. 183 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: Pinkney is elected as the presidential nominee because people hate 184 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 1: him less just right now, that's terrible guy. Yeah, sort 185 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: of sounds like a bit of a mirror of of 186 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: current politics. Maybe not quite as extreme, but yeah, I 187 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: don't think people were exactly super stoked about Biden, but 188 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: he was definitely, you know, better than the alternative for 189 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: folks on the Democratic side. Um, so right, he was nominated. 190 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: He get the nomination just in of itself a big 191 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: deal because they're really having to put all of their support, 192 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: put all of their eggs in his proverbial bad skit. 193 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: And former US Ambassador and New York Senator Rufus King 194 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: was nominated for vice president. And that is the exact 195 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: same ticket that the Federalists had presented back in eighteen 196 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: oh four. So history repeating, Yeah, also shout out to 197 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: the old, the old figure of speech that if you 198 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: it's insanity to do the same thing and expect different results. 199 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: So they just said, hey, remember that thing that didn't 200 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: work last time around? What about now? Right now that 201 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 1: things are worse. And uh, the Federalists were doing pretty 202 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: well in New England, but unfortunately they didn't do well enough. 203 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: Madison won the electoral college again. You got a hundred 204 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: twenty two electoral votes to Pinkney's forty seven. And what 205 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: this meant is that the Democrat slash Republican party is 206 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: becoming a clear winner. It's just got the It's the 207 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:07,079 Speaker 1: lebron of political parties at this point, which is a 208 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: little unfair because there are way more people playing basketball 209 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: today than there are political parties in the US, But 210 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: don't overthink the comparison. What we're saying is this was 211 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: the nail in the coffin for Pinkneys attempts at running 212 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: for president. And he says, you know what, I gave 213 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: it a goo, I gave it my my due diligence, 214 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: and I'm just gonna go into law I'm just gonna 215 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: be a lawyer. A lot of these guys were lawyers basically, 216 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: so it's not as if he was hurting for a 217 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: job now and that that continues to be a pretty 218 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: important prerequisite to this day. Right. I mean a lot 219 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: of folks that successfully when the presidency do have backgrounds 220 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: in law. Oh yeah, And there's there's also an interesting 221 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: thing when you look at other countries, like in I 222 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: believe it was the government of China, the majority of 223 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: political figures tend to be engineers or people with an 224 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: engineering background, whereas the majority of people, or a huge 225 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: minority at least a significant portion of politicians in the 226 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: US are as you said attorneys. Now, do you think 227 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: that's just a cultural difference or is there something in 228 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: that system of government that's conducive to, you know, having 229 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: that background being sort of helpful versus ours. Yeah, it's 230 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: a good question, man, I've always wondered, and I don't 231 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: have an answer for that, but we would of course 232 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: love to hear your take on that, folks. And and 233 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: the statistic may have changed over time, but I remember 234 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: reading that's that's one that stayed with me. So there 235 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: we go. Our first guy, who is ever ever the 236 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: best man, never the groom of the wedding of American politics, 237 00:15:53,960 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: Charles Codsworth Pinkney. Uh. He seems to unfordly have a 238 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: contagious air of defeat about him because later federalist nominees 239 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: like DeWitt Clinton run and they lose to Madison again 240 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: and then in eighteen sixteen Rufus King, who you mentioned earlier, 241 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: former vice president candidate, vice presidential candidate, to Pinkney. He 242 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: runs and he gets waxed. Uh, nobody, nobody is backing 243 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: the Federalist Party enough to even really swing the needle. 244 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: So that is Pinkney. And you could also make a 245 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: case that part of the reason you don't hear about 246 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: the Federalist Party running candidates now are like as a 247 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: pet political party, is because of this series of defeats 248 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: throughout this era of history. There's still the Federalist Society. 249 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: But that's uh, that's a whole other bag of badgers. 250 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 1: All right. Up next, we have a fellow that kind 251 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 1: of hits home. It's a little close to home, at 252 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: least conceptually, a guy named Henry Clay. Here's a quote 253 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: from Senate dot gov on Henry Clay. Henry Clay enjoyed 254 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: a distinguished political career, even though he never attained his 255 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: greatest desire, the presidency. Poor Henry Clay didn't get his 256 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 1: heart's desire. What he did get, though, is immortalized in 257 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: indie rockdom with the Los Angeles based band The Henry 258 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 1: Clay People, who, according to their Wikipedia is the unofficial 259 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: house band of our pals, Josh and Chuck's podcast Stuff 260 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: you Should Know. Nice. Yeah. And Henry Clay was a 261 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 1: politician of note. He had his bona fides, he had 262 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: his stripes, he was a man of the state, but 263 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: he never attained the holy grail for every US politician, 264 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: which is the presidency. He's born on April twelfth, seventeen 265 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: seventy seven in Hanover County, Virginia. Like a lot of 266 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: people at the time, he did not have the most 267 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: extensive for formal education, but he still taught himself law 268 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 1: and was admitted to the bar in both Kentucky and 269 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: Virginia in seventeen nineties seven, so at the at the 270 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: young age of twenty. And then he becomes a member 271 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: of the Kentucky House Representatives, where he serves well. He 272 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:39,679 Speaker 1: serves three separate terms in the US House, and he 273 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: gets to be Speaker of the House pretty frequently. If 274 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: you've been paying attention to US news, you know that 275 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,959 Speaker 1: was recently a whole kerfuffle. Uh. And then he was 276 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: in the U s Senate not once, but four different times, 277 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: and over the course of his political career he just 278 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: keeps trying to run for president it and it just 279 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: doesn't it doesn't work out. Let's go to uh, maybe 280 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: let's let's do that. But first, really quickly, I just 281 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 1: want to get pulled the room here. What is that about? 282 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: So this is this drive that we're sort of exploring. 283 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: You know, you're already you already have a successful career 284 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: in politics, you know, as we know, I mean theoretically, 285 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 1: you kind of make more of an impact as a 286 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 1: member of the legislature. You know, you can actually affect 287 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: laws and things like that in your constituents and you're 288 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: actually working for the people. The president is a bit 289 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: more of a figurehead job, and you definitely have a 290 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:37,880 Speaker 1: lot of power and you can veto things and all 291 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: of that. But it just feels like where where where 292 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: is the drive? Where where does that come from? Is 293 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: it about like, you know, wanting to be the top dog? 294 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,199 Speaker 1: Is it entirely ego driven? Or is there something that 295 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: I'm missing as to maybe this Henry clay Fellow or 296 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: you know, our buddy Pinkney just really thought that they 297 00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: could affect more change from the presidential palace. I mean, 298 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 1: I won't speak to all of them, but I will 299 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: speak about I think this for Henry Clay is there 300 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: was just kind of this assumption with these guys that 301 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: eventually they would be president. They paid their dues, they 302 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: deserved the seat, and there were and there we was 303 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: so like instrumental and policy decisions and stuff. And the 304 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: truth is, like, you know, as president, you can really 305 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: lead what direction and policies are going. Like obviously you 306 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: aren't in on the day to day of the making 307 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: and passing of the of the policies, but you're like, 308 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna do this thing. It's gonna most likely get done, 309 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: or at least party is gonna push for it. So 310 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,439 Speaker 1: you're really kind of spearheaded and setting the tone. You 311 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 1: also have as president, Uh, you have particular powers in 312 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: the realm of foreign relations and policy, so as in 313 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: this time in the eighteen hundreds, right, Uh, this would 314 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: be an instrumental lever of power. And also, like you said, 315 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: when people are uh, sort of inculcated in the system, 316 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: there in inch there the devil, you know, which gives 317 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: them a tremendous advantage over like a person of the people, 318 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: even though so many politicians try to portray themselves that way. 319 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: That's why you see I don't know what it's sound 320 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: too conspiratorial, but that's why you see people who are 321 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:21,120 Speaker 1: deep in Washington, d C. Culture come election time all 322 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: of a sudden pretending to own a farm. They're walking 323 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: around their Menden offense. Now they have a truck, They 324 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: got a cowboy hat. It makes no sense, they don't 325 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: wear that normally. But now look at me hunting exactly exactly. 326 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: So um, that's that business of garnering favor has always 327 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 1: existed in some way. And I would also but also 328 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 1: point out that you have to you have to be 329 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: pretty ambitious to want and pursue a job that only 330 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: one person can have at a time, and less than 331 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: fifty people have ever had, you know what I mean, 332 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 1: They're can be more than one astronaut at a time. 333 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: But there's an ego there. As a little as about 334 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: to say it's a it's a mixed bag. I mean, 335 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: certainly I agree about you know, being able to kind 336 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: of steer the party's you know, agenda. Let's just say, um, 337 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: but I think that that rarefied air that we talked 338 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: about the top of the show certainly smells really sweet 339 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 1: to some of these folks, including our buddy Henry Clay 340 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: who ran for president in eighty seven. UM and apparently 341 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: this one went down as one of the most nasty, 342 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: hard fought, chaotic, and corrupt elections in American history. Now, 343 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: I don't know if that um stacks how that stacks 344 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: up against the insurrection, you know that we've seen of 345 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 1: of recent years. I would think that one probably will 346 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: hold a place in that historical canon. I mean, I 347 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 1: don't know. This one I actually got decided by the 348 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: House of Representatives, which was kind of the goal of 349 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: the insurrection was to get to that point. Okay, so 350 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: this one took it a step further, maybe with a 351 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: little bit less actual, you know, violence on our hometh So, 352 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 1: with the fall of the Federalist Party, the Democratic Republicans 353 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: were now the only game in town. They were the 354 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: one major American political party, which seems kind of counterintuit 355 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: at the whole idea of political parties. Then the UM. 356 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: So four candidates were running for office. We have your 357 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 1: John Quincy Adams, Andrew Jackson, somebody named William Crawford. He 358 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,719 Speaker 1: seems to have faded a bit from from political memory. 359 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: Well he basically nearly died during the election. So yeah, Okay, okay, 360 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: poor guy, we'll get back to him and our buddy 361 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 1: Henry Clay. Uh. And they were all running under the 362 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 1: you know, I guess heading of Democratic Republicans. Isn't that 363 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: funny now? The idea of Democratic Republicans, it seems like 364 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 1: a like an oxymorn, right, like jumbo shrimp. You right there, 365 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: you go. I think you're right. There's a huge danger 366 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: to only one political party running the show, or honestly, 367 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 1: only two political parties running the show. But these four 368 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 1: different candidates, they all represent these different regions, these different 369 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 1: parts of US identity, and these very different ideologies. So 370 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: when the electoral votes all I get counted up, which 371 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: is again not the popular vote. Jackson gets votes, Adams 372 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,919 Speaker 1: gets eighty four, Crawford gets forty one, Clay gets thirty seven. 373 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 1: And what this means is that nobody got a majority. 374 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: There's no clear winner. What's that? Yeah, what's obvious is 375 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: that these people from the regions of their chosen candidate 376 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: are just supporting their boy. And that doesn't make for 377 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: a very clean cut election, sent I mean, at least 378 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: when you have to you know, political parties that are 379 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: that are kind of splitting people's you know, attention and 380 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 1: and uh and and opinions down very specific ideological lines 381 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: usually gives you something while pretty close to fifty fifties, 382 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,640 Speaker 1: sometimes in terms of the country's perspective, uh, usually ekes 383 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: out a little bit on one side. Yeah, exactly, And 384 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: sometimes that margin is laughably close, right uh. And then 385 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: sometimes it seems pretty historic and secure. Neither of those 386 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: cases happened here. The House of Representatives then had to 387 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: choose among the top three people. They went back to 388 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: the their paperwork and they looked at the twelfth Amendment 389 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: and they said, Okay, it's us. It's up to us, 390 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: great reps that we are to, you know, pick one 391 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: of these three. So Jackson, Adams or Crawford. So Clay 392 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: is cut out old old Henry Dice Clay kidding, Uh, 393 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: wouldn't that be fun? It was man for president? The 394 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: Dice man comments, Oh, this guy, I don't know. Man. 395 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: His comedy did not age. Well. It's a fun artifact though, 396 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 1: to experience, because you can you can find some of 397 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: his stand ups on YouTube. And the best part about 398 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: it is watching the audience. They are the yuppiest yuppies, 399 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: the whitest yuppiest yuppies I've ever seen in my entire life, 400 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: and they just think his Mary had a little lamb 401 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: and she was you know like, uh, you can bleep 402 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: that part out. That's literally his whole bit. You know, 403 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: it's just saying dirty, transgressive words. But when I was 404 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: a kid, I'll be honest, I love that stuff. I 405 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: didn't know most of what it meant, but I knew 406 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: I would get in trouble if I said it. And 407 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: I was like, look at this guy, you know he's hot. Oh, 408 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: but yeah, Henry Henry Clay, and what we can only 409 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: imagine it was a tremendous Oh gets eliminated. He can't 410 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: be president, but he's still Speaker of the House. So 411 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: you have lost the game, and now you're the guy 412 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: who decides who wins the game, which you know could 413 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: be a recipe for bitterness to a lesser statesman. Ultimately, 414 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: February nine, Adams is elected president. He wins thirteen states. 415 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: This gives him the majority. And uh, right after Adams 416 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: gets inaugurated, Clay becomes Secretary of State, which to me 417 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: sounds like a little bit of quake proquila clarice watching 418 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: the other Yeah, now that film does hold up. It 419 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: absolutely holds I'm not how good that is. It's very good, 420 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: But you know why it holds up, Ben, because it's 421 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: just good, and it doesn't feel like it's repping an 422 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: era per se, or like it doesn't have any hallmarks 423 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: of eighties or nineties nous. It was one of those 424 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: like eighties nineties CUSP movies, but like anything that these 425 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: remotely dated works for the movie, like that song good 426 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: Bye Horses, obviously very eighties sounding song, but the way 427 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: it's used is just iconic, and it just you'll never 428 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: hear that song and not think of Buffalo Bill dancing 429 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 1: tucked in the mirror. Yeah, and also that kind of 430 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 1: when you do really well in a role like that, actor, 431 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: it can be bad for your career to be a 432 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 1: very talented portrayer of a serial killer. He did go 433 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: on to have a pretty good, long running career, I 434 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 1: believe in one of the Law and Order series. Yes, yeah, 435 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: I think you're right, one of the true crime things. 436 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: But but you didn't. You didn't seem in a ton 437 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: and ton of blockbuster feature films anyway. Weirdly though, they 438 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: also didn't cast him as another serial killer creep. To 439 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: my recollection, wasn't done, just like the the guys in 440 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: mind Hunters were saying, Hey, this will be my one 441 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: time as Ed Kemper or whatever. Although not to contradict 442 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: you to directly, Ben, but the guy that played Charles 443 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: Manson in mind hunt also played Charles Manson and once 444 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: upon a time of Belly. Well, that guy is an 445 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: exception because he looks exactly like Charles. Why he has 446 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: to do that? If he had a job selling cars, 447 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: he's manager would say, hey, man, you're either doing great 448 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: because everybody wants to buy a car from Manson, or 449 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: you're doing terrible because everybody is scared how much you by, 450 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: how much you resembled Charles Manson. Anyway, last, uh, last 451 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: point on this uh, and this is a controversial point 452 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: before you move on with Clay Uh. I was listening 453 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: to unrelated research for different show. I was listening to 454 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: a lot of actual interviews with serial murderers, and not 455 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: in a glorified way. It hit me, and I hate 456 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: to say it, but I think most serial murders would 457 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: probably want a podcast, and I think I think Ed 458 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: Kemper probably could have hosted a podcast. Oh yeah, Charles 459 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: Manson definitely could have I bet his podcast would have 460 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: been called Stack the Nickels, you know, with with Charles 461 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: the game is the game his mind back to Henry Clay, which, 462 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: by the way, does strike me as a bit of 463 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: a serial killer. I can't say there's no proof that 464 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: he's not a serial killer. You like that, that little 465 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: bit of logic Parkour, that's how we do, that's how 466 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: that's all it takes. You know, no, no, no proof 467 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: to the contrary. But at this point, you know, I 468 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: certainly probably likely would have said, you know what, kat, 469 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: I can't I'm done, I'm moving on. I'm gonna do 470 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: something else, or it would have broken my psyche and 471 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 1: then I may have become Henry Clay the serial killer. 472 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: But Henry Clay was not your average guy, and he 473 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: decided that he absolutely wanted to continue this pursuit. Yeah, 474 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: so he still wants to become president again. Tenacious, ambitious, 475 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: and not one to give up easily. He gets his 476 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: next chance in eighteen thirty two, and he's directly running 477 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: against Andrew Jackson. Jackson is still a pretty popular guy 478 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: in politics as he's ending his first term as president. 479 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: But there's kind of a trash person though, right, Yeah, 480 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: He's one of those dudes that really, upon further inspection, 481 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: was like one of the worst. Yeah. But the kind 482 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: of the problem with it, especially this error of politics, 483 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,479 Speaker 1: is Wow, that person is a trash person who they 484 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: running against. You look at who they're running against. That 485 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: person is somehow even more of a trash person who 486 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: is kind of a trash contest. But the thing is, 487 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 1: in this realm, even if you're a fan of Jackson 488 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: at the time, you have to admit that he is 489 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: he has such personal enmity against his vice president, John C. 490 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: Calhoun that it is impacting the business of politics. It's 491 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: messing up both of their jobs in the capital. So 492 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: the so like he starts saying, he starts saying this 493 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: other stuff that strikes people sideways. He says, we need 494 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: to get rid of the electoral college. Uh, we need 495 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: to get rid of rotation of office and federal government. 496 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: Uh that I want to make some big changes, all 497 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: of which seemed to empower me by the way. Um. 498 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: And so people don't like that because they're saying, Hey, 499 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: our whole thing is we don't want kings. Even though 500 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: low key we tried to make George Washington king back 501 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: in the very beginning. Uh so he is maybe feeling 502 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: a little too authoritarian for some people. And all all 503 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: this to say, it leads the National Republicans to nominate 504 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: Henry Oh Clay uh for president, and they run against 505 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: him and Clay takes Nell. He absolutely loses because Jackson 506 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: was unpopular but still more popular than play. You could say, again, 507 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: most people would have given up the ghost thrown in 508 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: the proverbial towel at this point, but not Henry Clay. 509 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: He says, I'm gonna I see a lot of potential here. 510 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take all these people who don't vibe with Jackson, 511 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna make a party based on not liking Jackson. 512 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: And if you build something based entirely on objections to 513 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: something else without a positive direction or path, then you're 514 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: kind of setting your up yourself up to fail. I 515 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: pose it to you, gentlemen. That is the story of 516 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: the Whig Party. Indeed, yeah, I mean, it certainly is 517 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: a good tactic to to maybe divide people, but it's 518 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: not a very good tactic for you know, getting the 519 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: job done, because when you divide people, then no one 520 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: can agree on anything, and everything is just kind of 521 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: based on that divisiveness instead of like, you know, unity 522 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: and like betterments of our country and the lives of 523 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: everyday people. So, yeah, the Whigs really had nothing in 524 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: common outside of their hatred of Jackson. They had no 525 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: central kind of governing ideology, and they were often divided 526 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: on these these very you know, kind of broad lines. 527 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: So the election of eighteen thirty six really threw a 528 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:35,959 Speaker 1: huge spotlight on these issues. Um when the party entered 529 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: its first presidential contest and they ran no less than 530 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: three candidates from wildly different parts of the country. Clay, however, 531 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: it was not one of them. Yeah, yeah, this is 532 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 1: where Martin van Buren wins, because again there's a lot 533 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: of kingmaking here. There's a lot of guys being kind 534 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: of mafioso about this and say this is my chosen 535 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: you know, success, that this is my boy. He will 536 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 1: run the operation when my time is best. And that 537 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 1: was that was a ten ten impression of President Jackson 538 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: talking about Martin Van Buren. No one fact check it. 539 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: Uh so van Buren wins the presidency. What a day, 540 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: What a great week that guy is having until the 541 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: economy just goes into a tailspin. That's the problem with 542 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: being president, you're also held responsible for a ton of 543 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:35,720 Speaker 1: stuff that you could never actually control, so you become 544 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: the country's number one scapegoat. And there's this depression that ensues. Uh, 545 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 1: this chaos looks like an opportunity for the Whig Party, 546 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 1: and they're saying, when this eighteen forty election comes up, 547 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 1: since everybody is so mad at Van Buren, it's our 548 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: time to share baby, and Clay thinks, finally all my 549 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: work will have led to something, and he's wrong because 550 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: his party nominated another guy, a general named William Henry Harrison. 551 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,240 Speaker 1: He's a war hero, you know him from Tip of Canoe. 552 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: And uh. They said they did this because they were 553 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: kind of like a marketing department when you think about it. 554 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: They were looking at stuff they thought people would like. 555 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: And they said, you know, America elected Jackson because he's 556 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 1: a military man, so let's find a military guy, not 557 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:34,879 Speaker 1: necessarily a politician. And that's when Clay said, Okay, I'm 558 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: gonna you know, I'm gonna keep a stiff upper lip, 559 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep my chin up. I'm gonna go with 560 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: the party, and I am also going to promote William 561 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: Henry Harrison, even though I've always wanted to be president, 562 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: and I think I would be pretty good about it. 563 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: And then someone says, Clay, what are you mumbling over there? 564 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 1: And he goes, nothing, Go wigs, go Wiggs. There's a 565 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,400 Speaker 1: There was a really fun band out of Athens, Georgia 566 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,320 Speaker 1: called the Pigs for a while, Um, and I always 567 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: enjoyed them, and I thought that was a clever name 568 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: for a band, because it kind of sounds more like 569 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 1: a band than a party. But William Henry Harrison, as 570 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:15,439 Speaker 1: you mentioned, he didn't last poor fellow. He had Uh 571 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: he must have been a frail as a as a daffodil, 572 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 1: as as Max likes to affectionately call Ben and I 573 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: sometimes he made a bit of a long winded speech 574 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,879 Speaker 1: in the rain, and uh didn't go well for him 575 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: after that, And Max, to your point, off Mike, this 576 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,919 Speaker 1: isn't necessarily proof positive of what killed him, but it's 577 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: definitely something that's that's talked about a lot, and like 578 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: presidential lore. Oh yeah, it was. Um, let's see. I 579 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 1: think the speech itself, according to the transcript, was eight thousand, 580 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,840 Speaker 1: four hundred and forty five words. This is very long 581 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: and people have to stand, uh stand there. The whole time. 582 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: You can't about right. Uh. For comparison, I think the 583 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: shortest inaugural address ever was George Washington's second address. It 584 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: was a hundred and thirty five words. It's basically like 585 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 1: he came in and said, good game, everybody, you know 586 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: the US rules. Britain druls, all right, let's get some 587 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:27,280 Speaker 1: knog let's knogging up. Basically stinko. You haven't heard that expression. 588 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,800 Speaker 1: It's the old one, like getting stinko, let's getting really drunk. 589 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,839 Speaker 1: I guess, oh, I've heard blotto as blotto is good. 590 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: Stinko is a good one. You hear it. If you 591 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: watch any like noir movies, you'll learn you'll have a 592 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 1: great new uh fifties vocabulary for getting really wasted. Oh. Also, 593 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 1: Harrison was the weather was like forty eight degrees fahrenheit. 594 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: Harrison wasn't wearing the kind of what clothing you would wear. 595 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: He didn't have an overcode or hatter gloves. Uh. And 596 00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: then he look, yeah, I'm not saying he deserved to die, 597 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: but you made me hang out in the rain like that, 598 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: listening to you Babylon and on. You're not my favorite person. 599 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: I'll tell you that, right. You know, it's this is 600 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 1: why we should have a TV show where we do 601 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 1: reproductions of stuff, or at least guests on drunk history anyhow. 602 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's like, like Max said, it's not conclusively 603 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: proven that his speech right before he caught a cold 604 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: lead to his death, but um, but it feels weird. Anyway. 605 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: He got sick like three weeks after he made that speech, 606 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 1: so it might have just been his habit of walking 607 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 1: out and maybe he was doing a bunch of off 608 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 1: the book speeches. It just random people in bad weather, 609 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,240 Speaker 1: maybe just night walks where he just was talking to himself. 610 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,600 Speaker 1: They're nice, my friend, they're not. I don't know. Just 611 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 1: night walks can be a danger this thing if you're 612 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 1: not dressed appropriately. That's a very good point. And we 613 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: I think we both love. We both love a good 614 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,360 Speaker 1: night walk, oh man. And we can never tell this 615 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 1: story of that one night walk in New York recently. 616 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: We can tell, we can hint, we can hit show 617 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 1: me the money, there, we go. There it is. That's 618 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 1: or don't. That's entirely up to you. That's perfect. Yeah, 619 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 1: poetry toll. So all right, So immediately after Harrison dies, 620 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: you know you've got the the secession right, the changing 621 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 1: of the guard, and the peaceful passage of power transfer power. 622 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 1: So John No, keep it. I always like that one. 623 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. And uh, this makes John Tyler the president. 624 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: John Tyler was never really intended to be the president 625 00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 1: by the Whig Party. He was put up there as 626 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,280 Speaker 1: a demographic play. People like the part of the country 627 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: he was from. You know, there's there's a lot of 628 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 1: that kind of horse trading in politics in general, right, So, uh, 629 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: it became obvious that he was he was like a 630 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,920 Speaker 1: why no, a Whig in name only because he was 631 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:28,400 Speaker 1: only a Wig because he's beefed up with President Jackson. 632 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,319 Speaker 1: He didn't agree with any other thing that the Whig 633 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: stood for, like none of it, and so eventually they 634 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,759 Speaker 1: kicked him out of the party. That's how unpopular or 635 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: president he was. Eventually, the Whig Party itself was kind 636 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:48,879 Speaker 1: of on the down slope. And Henry Clay resigned from 637 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 1: the Senate and said, you know, you know why I resigned, right, 638 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,560 Speaker 1: can you guess as if we don't have the same 639 00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 1: notes again, guess ben, But I do know, And I 640 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 1: think it was probably a reasonable bet that he he 641 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: wanted to to spend his time elsewhere. Uh, preparing to 642 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 1: once again run for president in eight I mean, come 643 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 1: on like it. I respect, you know, I respect the determination, 644 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 1: the doggedness and the ambition again, but at some point, 645 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,040 Speaker 1: don't you have to ask yourself? Hey, am I being 646 00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,960 Speaker 1: like someone who gambles too much? Am I? Am? I 647 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 1: just continually telling myself that this pool of the slots 648 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,759 Speaker 1: will be the one that makes me a millionaire? Right, 649 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,160 Speaker 1: I mean, tell yourself whatever you want. Uh, if you've 650 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:46,480 Speaker 1: got the stamina and the perhaps lack of self awareness 651 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 1: to keep pushing and pushing and pushing like this, I 652 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 1: guess more power to you. But history is gonna remember 653 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,080 Speaker 1: you this way. You're gonna be in one of these podcasts. 654 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,839 Speaker 1: So you know, wow, that's just gonna happen for you. 655 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,959 Speaker 1: Well that you know, we're a nice show. We're nice 656 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:09,080 Speaker 1: to people. Uh, we're fair, We're fair. How about that? 657 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:14,960 Speaker 1: That's true? That's so this is given the age the 658 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,879 Speaker 1: Clay is at this time in eighteen forty four, he's 659 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,719 Speaker 1: sixty seven years old. So if we're being realistic about it, 660 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,959 Speaker 1: this is probably gonna be one of the last, if 661 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 1: not his last, chance to become president. And he finally 662 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: has earned enough goodwill for the Whig Party to support him, 663 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 1: but he comes out looking bad in a couple of 664 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 1: great debates of the time, the issue of annexing Texas, 665 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,480 Speaker 1: what that means for the horrific institution of slavery. This 666 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:52,239 Speaker 1: is uh, the most divisive political issue of of the 667 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: day for for the you know, for the politician class 668 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,560 Speaker 1: and the Democratic nominee. A guy named James A Polk 669 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:07,760 Speaker 1: from Tennessee says, hey, manifest Destiny, come on, let's get 670 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:14,279 Speaker 1: big us baby, uh. And people dig that. They're like, yeah, hey, 671 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:18,319 Speaker 1: you know what, James is right, we are great. We're 672 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,279 Speaker 1: just you know, we are better than people, is the thing, 673 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,480 Speaker 1: and we're going to vote for the guy who understands that. Also, 674 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 1: it is funny, like, you know how the notion of 675 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:34,800 Speaker 1: manifest destiny is a conquering notion right at at at best. 676 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,120 Speaker 1: And it's very funny how quickly as a nation we 677 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 1: start to resemble our conquering uh former you know, overlords. 678 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: Yeah and an old bin old Britain. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 679 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 1: History moves in cycles, right, and history is not exactly 680 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 1: a study and innovation as much as we would like 681 00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 1: it to be. Manifest destiny. Uh came about in eighteen 682 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,200 Speaker 1: that's when the phrase was coined, and it is very 683 00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:09,440 Speaker 1: much a religious ideology. One there is a God and 684 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:13,759 Speaker 1: to that God is crazy. Pro United States. Forget all 685 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,240 Speaker 1: the other problems of the world, physics, chemistry, and the universe. 686 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,120 Speaker 1: There is a God and the God and God's main thing, 687 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 1: whether or not you've read the book, is that this 688 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:29,240 Speaker 1: one country, the US, should expand as much as possible. 689 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,560 Speaker 1: I gotta say, man, I was hoping you're just gonna 690 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,320 Speaker 1: stop it. There is a God and that God is crazy. 691 00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 1: That God is, That God is nuts. All the speeches 692 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:44,240 Speaker 1: are very um Werner Herzog from politicians at that time. 693 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 1: So at this point Clay has lost He's nearing his seventies. 694 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,759 Speaker 1: He's this is not a period in history where a 695 00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:00,120 Speaker 1: seventy year old president would be a common thing and 696 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,000 Speaker 1: lives long pack than either you R. Yes, I mean 697 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,160 Speaker 1: that's the case. It's it's cold to admit it, but 698 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,120 Speaker 1: it's true. So what does Clay do Well? One would 699 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,799 Speaker 1: think he did do the old Homer Simpson backing into 700 00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:16,879 Speaker 1: the bushes gif Jeff Jeff um. He thought about that, 701 00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,160 Speaker 1: but he did end up returning to the Senate to 702 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,399 Speaker 1: assist in what was known as the Compromise of eighteen fifty. 703 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,640 Speaker 1: He he was able to help kind of pull this 704 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,640 Speaker 1: thing out of the toilet, was having some issues, and 705 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,680 Speaker 1: then he was you know, as a as a as 706 00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:37,600 Speaker 1: a senior literally, um, you know, as senator, was able 707 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,000 Speaker 1: to kind of help salvage the deal. But this would 708 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,920 Speaker 1: be the last thing that he did in government or 709 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,920 Speaker 1: in in life. Perhaps he passed away shortly thereafter from 710 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,439 Speaker 1: tuberculosis in June of eighteen fifty two. And I think 711 00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:57,279 Speaker 1: he was the first American to lay in state in 712 00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:02,200 Speaker 1: the Capitol Rotunda before even abra Am Lincoln. Yeah, Abraham 713 00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:06,359 Speaker 1: Lincoln twelve years later becomes the second American to lay 714 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,000 Speaker 1: in state in the rotunda. And as a as a 715 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,439 Speaker 1: result of this, you know, we're giving him a hard 716 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,760 Speaker 1: time a little bit. But uh, Henry Clay had a 717 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,960 Speaker 1: long and storied career. That's why a lot of historians 718 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,239 Speaker 1: will tell you even today he is the most powerful 719 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:28,839 Speaker 1: and important American to have never become president. And look, 720 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,600 Speaker 1: we peppered this story obviously with some accomplishments that he 721 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:37,520 Speaker 1: did achieve, and he clearly was a competent statesman, but 722 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,360 Speaker 1: he just didn't have the range. He shouldn't have the range. 723 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,759 Speaker 1: And a lot of it is timing and luck, you know, 724 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:51,080 Speaker 1: an opportunity, so you could be an amazing politician sincere one. Uh, 725 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:55,160 Speaker 1: and different circumstances beyond your control could just make it 726 00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:59,320 Speaker 1: such that political party doesn't see you as a viable candidate. 727 00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,720 Speaker 1: That happens a lot, by the way, in US history 728 00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,760 Speaker 1: and and in the history of democracies across the planet. 729 00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:10,080 Speaker 1: We got to two people today. We went pretty in 730 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:14,719 Speaker 1: depth on Pinkney and Clay, but there's much more to 731 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,640 Speaker 1: the story. As we said, we're gonna make this a 732 00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,560 Speaker 1: series that pops up every now and then when you 733 00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:25,920 Speaker 1: least expected. Um, maybe when we least expected. But in 734 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,520 Speaker 1: the meantime, Uh, we hope you enjoyed this look at 735 00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:35,240 Speaker 1: and often ignored but very important part of US history. 736 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:37,400 Speaker 1: And hey, if you want to suggest to us another 737 00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:43,040 Speaker 1: anthology style, uh, you know, collection of of of genres 738 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,719 Speaker 1: of stories. Uh, you can hit us up on the internet. Specifically, 739 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,000 Speaker 1: you can hit us up individually if you wish. I 740 00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,760 Speaker 1: am on Instagram at how now Noel Brown, Mr Boland? 741 00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,040 Speaker 1: Where can people find you? Oh? What a time to 742 00:48:56,160 --> 00:49:01,080 Speaker 1: be alive? Folks and uh in users of Instagram, you 743 00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:03,759 Speaker 1: can find me calling myself Appen Bollan in a burst 744 00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,920 Speaker 1: of creativity bow l I N. On Instagram, you can 745 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,200 Speaker 1: also head over to Twitter. If you're more inclined to 746 00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,240 Speaker 1: tweet and so on, you can find me Appen Bolan 747 00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,680 Speaker 1: hs W and while you were on Twitter, pro tip, 748 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,840 Speaker 1: don't follow me and then immediately say while I'm done, 749 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,520 Speaker 1: I've been super productive today. No, stay on Twitter and 750 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,040 Speaker 1: check out our pals. Super producer Max Williams. Yes, you 751 00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,279 Speaker 1: can find me at AHL Underscore, Max Williams. That's where 752 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:37,240 Speaker 1: I'll be. Thanks as always to you, Super producer Max, 753 00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:41,440 Speaker 1: and research associate for this episode thinks of course to 754 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:47,960 Speaker 1: uh Jonathan Jonathan stricklet uh who what you call him? 755 00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,040 Speaker 1: In the previous episode called him a human leaf blower? 756 00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:57,640 Speaker 1: Are our leafblowers? Yes? Yeah, Clay right, Yes, he doesn't 757 00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,480 Speaker 1: give up, although we haven't heard for him in a while, 758 00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:04,520 Speaker 1: but I think thank good might change. Oh boy, you 759 00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:08,239 Speaker 1: know I actually I gotta got a summoning bell. Oh no, 760 00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,279 Speaker 1: that's just me testing the bell. Okay, the don't that's 761 00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,319 Speaker 1: not that wasn't that was just practice springs. Also beetlejuice rules, 762 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,759 Speaker 1: so we're not going to say his full name anymore 763 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:21,400 Speaker 1: right now, so in lieu of summonings. Thanks also to 764 00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:25,040 Speaker 1: Chris Frosty otis Eve's Jeff Coat. Man, I'm such a 765 00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,000 Speaker 1: fan of all our colleagues. No, sometimes I just want 766 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:32,720 Speaker 1: to thank people who aren't even associated with with the show, 767 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:35,320 Speaker 1: or just make up names, or just make up names, 768 00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,360 Speaker 1: you know. Thanks to Max Powers, astronaut with a secret 769 00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:42,560 Speaker 1: fig supporter. Yeah, thanks to Cuba Gooding Jr. He likes 770 00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,840 Speaker 1: the show. Thanks to Cuba. Yeah, and uh and no. 771 00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,200 Speaker 1: Most importantly, man, thanks for our listeners and thanks to 772 00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,520 Speaker 1: you he as well. We'll see you next time. Folks. 773 00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,480 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart rate, you visit the 774 00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,399 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen 775 00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:04,480 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.