WEBVTT - Red Lights & Sirens 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.360 Be sure to catch live editions of The Ben Maller 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:05.560 Show weekdays at two a m. Eastern eleven p m. Pacific. 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:11.280 If you thought more hours a day, minutes a week 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:14.920 was enough, think again. He's the last remnants of the 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:19.120 old Republic, the sole fashion of fairness. He treats crackheads 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:21.640 in the ghetto cutter the same as the rich pill 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:25.760 poppers in the penthouse, to clearing house of hot takes, 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:31.000 break free for something specialitur with Ben Maller starts right 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:37.560 now that it does. We are in the air everywhere 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:42.600 eight days a week because four hours are not enough. 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:45.199 We thank you for finding the podcast. We thank you 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:47.800 for supporting the podcast. We started this, we did it 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:52.040 one day a week, and then the numbers were good, 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:54.560 so we kept doing it. Now it's it's Friday, Saturday, 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:58.600 and Sunday. This is our Friday podcast, a spinoff of 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:02.040 the Overnight radio show. But we can go third rail 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:04.440 on my end. We can hit the third rail on 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:06.720 this because you know, it's just a podcast. We can 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:08.720 talk about things that we don't normally talk about on 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:12.000 the radio show, which is just hardcore sports, and this 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:15.479 is a in theory a sports podcast. But we delve 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:18.880 into some other issues in real life, and back again 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:24.679 from west of the four oh five David gascon making 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:30.400 his way there. He is there, I am loud and proud. 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:34.520 Um is this is this an uncomfortable day for you? 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.480 Because if you've downloaded the podcast, chances are you know 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:41.959 who we're gonna have a conversation with a so so David. 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:46.640 That's assuming that most of the people can read the description. Wow, 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:49.960 I mean already. I mean we're not even a minute 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:54.440 in the print. The prints fine. So do you often 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:56.840 listen to or do you often read the description when 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:59.120 you click on a podcast, because that sure it's held out. 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:04.320 That's a good question. I well, I subscribe to some 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:10.680 but interview podcast. Yeah, like I I listened like Joe Rogan. 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:14.679 Sometimes I'll I don't listen to all. I actually don't 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:16.720 listen to that often. But if I'm looking for some 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.760 audio content, I want to hear an interview Ali or 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.880 who's Rogan got on? And then if it's someone the 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:25.160 description is good and it kind of gets me going, 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:28.320 I'll listen. If it's someone I've never heard of in 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:31.320 the description sucks, I'm not gonna listen fair enough. So, 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:34.320 but yeah, but generally, Yeah, the podcast I subscribed to, 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:37.040 you know, they're Automa. They're on my phone. I just 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.240 listened to them and when I'm wandering around doing my 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:44.600 sojourn around around town here. But yeah, we're gonna have today. Uh. 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:49.280 The chief for those that don't know, Uh, David's father 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.519 was a big cohuna at the l a p D 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:56.120 and and his most famous for the the time with 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:59.360 the O. J. Simpson case. He was the spokesperson for 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:01.120 the l A P. He was out in front on 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.639 that and he was on television globally and what he 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:07.480 spent over thirty years right with the Los Angeles Police 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:11.799 Department years in the department, man and and how wild 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:14.920 is this though? He was he was known worldwide for 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:18.040 what went down O J. And there was no social 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:21.359 media at the time. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, do 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:23.200 you think about what it would have been like now? 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:25.239 And it but it was. I don't think it would 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:29.720 be much different because you could not get bigger than 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.959 the O. J. Simpson case. I mean, even with social 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.400 media it made it would have made it a little different, 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:39.160 But I don't know because and the reason why I 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:41.840 bring that up is because of what's gone on recently 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:46.360 with the whole election scandal, is that you have people 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.600 that are making these you have these affidavits that are 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.000 that are signed by these individuals and sworn testimony, and 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:56.280 you have news agencies out there right now either one 0:03:56.400 --> 0:04:00.760 docks in these people or two resurface seeing their past 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:04.360 life like what they've done in their teenage years and 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:08.320 the early early twenties, and they basically try to out 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:11.720 these people. And I think more so now than ever, 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:14.960 is that if you had police officers that were involved 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.720 in this investigation and or the d a's office, I 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:22.479 think you'd have more agencies looking to these individuals and 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:24.640 try to discredit them if they felt like O. J 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:28.000 was in the right not in the wrong. So the 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:32.200 media spin what is easier to spin stuff in the 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:35.400 age of social media, because if you're on the right 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.800 side of big tech, you don't get censored. If you're 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:40.920 on the other side of big tech, you get censors. 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:42.920 So it's hard to get your message out because so 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:45.520 many people there's a whole different You're you're opening up 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:48.640 Pandora's box because that's a whole different conversation which we've had. 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:52.159 We've had that that people take social media way too seriously. 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:55.479 And it's the matrix. It's it's not really on that. 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:58.400 But we're getting sidetracked here. But the the o J. 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:00.839 If you're a young person and you're you weren't around 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:04.120 for o J. I was just in the early part 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:06.520 of my career when the trial was going on. I 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.000 remember I was still in college when the murder happened. 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:11.039 And then I got out and I started working in 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.040 San Diego and I was covering the Dodgers in the 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:15.880 in l A. And I remember I was living in 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:17.640 Orange County. I was driving into l A. And I 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.800 drive in that one on one corridor through downtown and 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:24.599 they had put up every parking lot right across next 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:26.400 to the and I said every There was two massive 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:28.200 parking lots right near the one on one when you 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:30.800 make the the the interchange with the the one with 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:33.080 the one tent like you know l A Freeways if 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.359 you're not in l A. But anyway, so I'm driving 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.760 there and they put up these giants, and I mean 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:43.440 they were like three or four stories of um, what's 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:45.720 what's the term I'm looking for? You know, those things 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:49.520 like painters stand on they're kind of like fake fake 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:51.440 I'm trying to I don't know what the term for 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:53.159 that is. But they so they could have the shot 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.720 of downtown behind them. Yeah you know that, yeah, so, 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:00.120 and and they were international media. It was wild a 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.120 panoramic view, right, yeah, exactly wanted the panoracs, so they 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:05.159 put up like planks of wood and so that the 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:08.200 reporters could stand and so behind them you saw the 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.200 skyline of l A. And they were reporting on O 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:13.880 J and UM. And I remember going to cover Dodging 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:17.040 games and during the trial part of it, and it 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:19.560 was people. There was a buzz in the crowd. This 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:22.000 was in the days without social media, and there were 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:24.480 I remember one night the Dodgers, I think they were 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:28.680 in the playoffs, uh, either playing Atlanta or Cincinnati, and 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:30.839 a couple of guys showed up. They were they had 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:33.000 been on the Tonight Show. They were Judge Edo and 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:37.479 personators and the crowd David. The crowd went wild. They 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:39.800 everyone wanted to be and wanted to be around these 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:43.640 two knuckleheads and were dressed like Judge Edo, and uh, 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:45.400 it was pretty It was just it was crazy and 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:48.000 your your dad and just a central figure in that. 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:49.960 So I'm excited to talking. We're gonna get to that. 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:52.320 We have to start with other stuff. They'll guess, gone, right, 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:53.640 we have to start with all this stuff before we 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:57.919 get to the meet with the Chief. Yes, yeah, alright, 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:00.880 So I think it's it's it's ideal with Mr West 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.240 of the four oh five all the time. Uh so, 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:06.360 why don't we welcome in the chief here, David gascon Man, 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:08.760 who was in the l APD for thirty two years. 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:11.480 And I get to work with his son, your son 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:14.160 here on a weekly basis. So when you found out 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:18.240 your child was going to become a sportscaster, did you 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:22.160 consider holding some kind of intervention? Uh not, in the 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:28.680 least you did not, Now, Uh why not? Because sportscasting, 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:32.280 if you were to rank like careers, sportscasting is kind 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:37.760 of on the back the backside of that. Well actually no, 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:44.400 you know, oh look, he could be a politicians would 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:49.600 be worse, that would Yeah? And and who taught your 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:58.880 son how to park? His mother? Have you seen some 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.560 of the photo photograp chief? Have you seen? Because uh, 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.440 now I have. I don't go in right now because 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:06.120 of what's been going on this year. But when I 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.239 when I go into the studio and I'd park and 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:13.239 on nights your son was working there. Uh, he would 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:17.400 park in every kind of direction imaginable rather than in 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:20.400 the actual space. And I have photographic proof that this 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:29.080 happened multiple occasions. And and I blame you. Oh no, 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:35.920 not me, not me. I'm one of those guys that says, 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:42.200 shalt not but they would just say, look, details, details. Now, 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:44.480 I'm here to take the point, you know, I'm here 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:49.240 to get involved in the important market to car Nah. Well, 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:53.040 I'm happy to talk to you because I I support 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:55.719 law enforced, my wife's and one operator. It's been a 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:58.679 not a good year here chief for the you know, 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.160 people taking shots at the least and all that. And 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:05.400 I guess we get serious now, And uh, you're you 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:08.040 haven't had a career in law enforcement. When you sit 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:09.840 back and look at what's been going on here with 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:15.160 the media and open season on local police departments, like 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:19.120 what what from your perspective, Like give me your thoughts 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.040 on on how this has all gone down this last 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:26.319 year or so. Well, I think it's disgusting, somewhat predictable 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:31.800 and been there and done that. UM life was very 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:37.600 chaotic in the early seventies, UM due to a variety 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:41.560 of reasons, not the least of which was the Vietnam War. UM. 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:48.880 But we also had many many UM anti government organizations 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.840 that we're at work across the nation, and so we've 0:09:52.840 --> 0:10:00.840 dealt with UM some very extreme violent organizations and uh, 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:04.040 it was it was really ugly. So to see it 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:07.040 come back is not a surprise. To see it so 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:11.680 politicized is not a surprise. That's more sophisticated now, But 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:16.199 a lot of things going on are more sophisticated, um, 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:18.320 you know, to the extent that we're able to follow 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:21.080 some of these things that are not suppressed or not 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:26.480 handling the mainstream media. There's some really problematic things happening 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:28.960 now here in the country and really going on around 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:33.240 the world. So for for those that here defund the police, 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:38.160 like what are what are the the actual real world 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.520 ramifications of that, Like you you spent your had a 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:43.440 great run of the l a p D. You were, 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.400 you know, one of the big shots there. But what 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:47.480 what does it actually mean Because we've actually seen in 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:50.920 some cities, as you know, they do you have defunded 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:53.400 the police. They have taken a good amount of money 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:56.600 away from law enforcement. So when they do that, that 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:03.160 in certain places, like what what happens is ares fighting crime, Well, 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:08.800 when you have less officers out there, less visibility, then um, 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:13.000 it is extremely counterproductive. And the result is you start 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:16.679 stacking up dead bodies and crime goes crazy, which is 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:21.520 what you see across the nation right now. Violence is extreme. Look, 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:24.839 we're only as good as the willingness of the community 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.800 to follow the law. And when the percentage of people 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:32.760 who don't follow the laws increases, for whatever the cause, 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:35.959 then they wreak havoc on the rest of the general population. 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:39.800 So if you get a percentage that starts getting higher 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.520 and higher, than you get civil and rest, and you 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.200 get crime, and you get all that violence out there. 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:49.440 And who who's going to look out for those poor people? Uh? 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.960 The only people traditionally that do look out for them 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.800 or your uniform police officers. And and that's the way 0:11:56.840 --> 0:12:01.600 it's been, and it's been that way for or you know, 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:06.559 probably a hundred and fifty years here easily at least, 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:09.360 since there's been a need for a police department. You 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:10.960 have to go back to the basics. Why do we 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.560 have a police department? Because we have a need for them, 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:15.720 all right, So let's go back here to the summer 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:19.480 Chief And and I have that image the video in 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:21.840 my head still that was bouncing around social media in 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:23.880 l A. Here somewhere in l a where the camera 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:26.640 guy was walking down the street and there were there 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:29.640 were burned out police cars on like both sides of it. 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:33.000 It looked like a war zone. How it was not 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:35.000 just Los Angeles, It's happened a lot of places. But 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.200 how does that, How is that allowed to happen? How 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:40.680 how how are are these people that are allowed to 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:42.960 run around and burn police cars? It was just seemed 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.760 insane to me. Well it is. It's actually an attack 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:52.280 on um civilized society. So it's an attack on the taxpayers. 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.880 It's a it's a I mean those things cost money, obviously, 0:12:56.320 --> 0:13:00.480 it's it's uh. It's a significant attack on a piece 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:03.480 of the community. And of course it wasn't just the 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:08.560 police cars. Um. There were victims that owned UM small 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:11.880 businesses along all of those quarters that you know, their 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.760 businesses were damaged, they were alloted, they were burned out. 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:19.880 Many of them UM members of the minority community that 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.440 have finally gotten a leg up and and have proven 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.640 to be successful after many years of hard work, and 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:31.640 what did we do? Um we we kind of um 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.360 burn them down to the ground and threw them out 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:38.080 of their opportunities for a bright future. And you've got 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:40.520 to ask yourself the question, who would do such things 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.240 and for what reason? Obviously, if you're trying to be 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.840 constructive to make things better, uh, and there are certain 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:51.040 things we can all agree to, then how does that 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:56.160 advance the course of discussion to torch police cars and 0:13:56.160 --> 0:14:00.800 and burn people out of their livelihoods? It doesn't. Well, yeah, 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.040 and then the other thing about it too. You know 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:04.920 a lot of the people that were doing that, they 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.000 knew who they were, but they just give them, not 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:08.720 even a slap on the wrist. They were they were 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.280 like in and out. It was a revolving door. The 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:15.160 prosecutors were not charging them with anything. So it's like 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:17.360 they got a free pass on that, which is also 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.440 mind blowing on top of it, like they you know, 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:22.640 they knew who was doing it in some locations, they 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:24.520 caught some of the people and they were not even 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:28.000 punished for it, which is which is just insane to me. Well, 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:32.560 it's it's another issue. Um. So you know how we 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:35.600 generally say don't paint people with a broad brush, And 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.360 we certainly would say that when we're talking about, um, 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.200 police officers in general, we don't want to paint it 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:44.880 with a broad brush. Um, but you would have to 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:48.560 say that about prosecutors to a lot of the activities 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.120 that you see going on under the direct results of 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:59.040 politics and the nature of where politicians are and how 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:03.000 they are influence and what they are trying to accomplish, 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:09.080 what suits their political preferences going forward. And I think 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:11.040 you've seen a lot of that go on in various 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:14.920 parts of the country, and and and that leaves you 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:19.280 somewhat speechless and disappointed. Um, But in a lot of ways, 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:22.200 I'm not. I'm not disappointed that they lived up or 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:25.680 lived down to the expectations I have for some of them. 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:30.320 I think you've seen some of the most gross incompetence 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:33.280 in political leadership in the history of our country during 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:37.080 this year. Yeah. Well, and following that train of thought, 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:40.720 I know when you found out that, I guess you 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:43.080 you know him live A. George Gascon is the new 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:47.160 district attorney in l A. Shares a similar last name 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:51.360 to you, and has much different feelings on how to 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:53.960 treat crime. In fact, the story came out I'm sure 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:56.480 you saw it here. This last week or so, the 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:00.440 new district Attorney in l A announced essentially he's going 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:06.960 to stop prosecutions on non violent crimes including trespassing, disturbing 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:11.480 the police, driving without a license, prostitution, resisting arrest is 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:18.000 on that list. UM, drug possession, criminal threats like all 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.960 that stuff is not going to be prosecuted. Uh, for 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.200 first time offenders. I believe. I think it's only for 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.200 first time offenders. But when you saw that, I mean, 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:30.880 this guy has a reputation. What what was your reaction? Well, 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.880 first and foremost, I know George. I've known George for 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.800 i'd say most of his career here in Los Angeles, 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:42.440 and I personally like George and I've always gotten along 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:46.960 with him. And when George left the l A p 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.760 D and ended up in Mason and then ended up 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.920 in San Francisco and on, and I was very much 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:58.840 distressed by um his politics, which I found shocking and disappointing. 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:05.240 And I like George personally, but I pretty much am 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.040 on the opposite side of the coin on just about 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:12.520 everything he believes in politically, and so I'm disappointed about it. No, 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:14.800 we haven't spoken and what I speak with him, of 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:19.040 course I would, um, And and do do I believe 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.720 that he's wrong in his approach? Yes, I do. And 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:26.520 what I would I be quite vociferous in my views, 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.280 You bet, I would be. Um. I think we have 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:32.520 to look at history, and we have a lot of history, 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:36.600 uh to look at in terms of what has proven 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:39.480 to be successful and what has proven to be unsuccessful, 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:42.560 and how to deal with our communities. There's no question 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:44.959 that we need to have a bond with the members 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:47.119 of our community. There's no question that all of us 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:49.879 are opposed to abuses that occur, and none of us 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:53.560 want to see abuses at the hands of police officers. 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:56.240 We can all agree with that, so we have to 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:58.760 be sensitive to that. We have to hire the best people, 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.800 train him as properly it is possible, and we have 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.920 to hold them accountable. But to watch the nonsense that's 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:08.359 going on as a result of some of these things 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:13.719 is kind of extraordinarily disappointing. Yeah, and it's also just 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:16.520 the quality of life issue with a lot of these things, right, 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:18.440 it's not you know, I say, well, you give people 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:22.000 a second chance. But as as you talked about earlier, Chief, 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:25.200 when you own businesses, and you know, people are disturbing 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:28.119 the peace in front of your business, causing trouble. They're 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:33.000 drunk or whatever, and they're making threats and no one's 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:34.760 gonna be punished for I mean that that affects the 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:37.920 quality of life. I mean I heard stories in San 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:40.560 Francisco of what went on when he was running the 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:44.160 show there, George Gascon in San Francisco, And it sounds 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:47.000 like that's gonna be coming to Los Angeles. But these 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:49.200 are really quality of life things. These you know, these 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.480 it seems like you meaningless stuff and the pictures how trespassing. 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.600 Who cares? But you know, somebody's trespassing in your property 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:57.960 right And this becomes a problem if it continues over 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.480 and over again. We want to espouse that we care 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:06.399 about people and we're sensitive to about people's welfare. And 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:08.840 and then if I were to walk you downtown and 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:11.119 look at skid Row and to realize that we have 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:14.919 probably sixty thousand people living on the streets in this 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:19.639 city in the worst of conditions, Uh, what does that 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:25.280 really say about how we treat humanely those of us 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.639 that have problems in the community. If you have a 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:32.399 mental problem, if you have a drug problem, etcetera. How 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:34.679 do we treat you well, Let you live in that 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:38.720 kind of squalor we let you get exposed to um 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:42.800 diseases and illnesses and things like that. Uh, we let 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:46.399 you live in an area infested with with rats and 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:50.000 feces and all those things that that kind of problem, 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.120 you know, presents to a community. And and and yet 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:55.040 out the other side of our mouth, we're talking all 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:57.359 these great wonderful things we're gonna do. And oh, by 0:19:57.400 --> 0:19:59.320 the way, send us more money so we can fix 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:07.520 this problem that actually we've created. Yeah, we have. We 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:09.880 have gone a long way to destroy some of these 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:13.000 major cities in this country. Um. I think Dave's been 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.040 up to San Francisco in the recent past, and it's 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:18.720 like shocking to hear the stories, and I hear them 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:21.040 from other people who have been there. But you know, 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:25.880 I'm a big Kings fan, and I go downtown frequently still, 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.040 and you know, you don't want to get too far 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:32.119 off the main drags there because you're looking around and 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:36.000 you're saying, boy, you know, I'm allowed to pack a gun, 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:38.960 but a lot of these poor people here they have 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:43.000 no chance as somebody jumps them. Yeah, I was just 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:45.600 in downtown Los Angeles this weekend. I went to the 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:49.600 bookstore down there and skid Role. You know, there was 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:53.040 this point of demarcation, as you know that one in 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:55.879 one street over was was bad, and then over it 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:57.600 wasn't that bad. On the other side it was kind 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:00.440 of nice downtown. Skid Rose moved. All were a couple 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:02.679 of blocks. Now it's no longer just in that that 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:06.640 one corridor, and no one seems to want to address that. 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.720 Like the homeless problem, it's even worse, obviously because of 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:13.880 what's happened now with people losing their jobs. But everyone's 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:16.600 concerned about other things, but the homeless it just keeps 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:20.440 they keeps piling up. What's it gonna take for politicians 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:25.480 to actually do something about that? And it's something we 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:30.680 look at it this way. If your coach kept presenting 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:34.119 you with a football team that was three and thirteen 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:37.680 year after year, what's it gonna take. It takes a change. 0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:41.080 You know, we're gonna have to change out politicians. People 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:43.560 are going to have to recognize that you can't keep 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:47.760 voting the same types of people in or the same 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:51.119 people in, because you're going to continue to get this 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:55.760 kind of nonsense. It's it's the definition of insanity, isn't it. Yeah, 0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:59.760 it's it is is wild. What's been going on with 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:02.560 the on this problem? That's great though, you even you 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:05.120 are allowed to carry a weapon. When you go to downtown, 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:06.720 you kind of look around a little bit're like, wait 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:08.359 a minute, what's going on around here? This is not 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:09.919 This is not where I want to be. If you 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:13.840 go go a block over. Well, you know, we're really 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:17.280 concerned about health issues right now, so much so that 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:21.640 we have this interest in locking everything down. Uh, but 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:24.400 what are we not concerned with the health of those 0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:27.000 thousands of people in the streets that are living on 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:31.000 top of each other in destitute conditions. Yeah, we act 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:33.800 like we're paralyzed and we have no ideas on how 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:36.399 to deal with them, and then we ask for more money, 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:38.960 and then pretty soon there's billions of dollars and you 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:42.119 look around and the problem has grown. So, you know, 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:44.800 there comes a point where you say stop. You know, 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:47.760 let's look at this again from the beginning and let's 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:51.040 figure out ways to fix this. We need solutions. We 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:54.800 don't need to keep adding to the problem. Yeah, absolutely 0:22:54.800 --> 0:23:00.440 correct here, and so you know, going going forward, you know, 0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:03.040 what do you You say you need new politicians, but 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:05.720 it's like the same type of people run for these offices. 0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:08.200 So what's it going to take to get some new 0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:12.440 blood politically to actually do something well? I think it 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:18.440 takes a significant frustration level in the electorate. Um. So 0:23:18.520 --> 0:23:21.679 now we're watching this unfold as it relates to COVID 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:26.120 nineteen and the countermeasures that are being taken in some 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:31.119 um cities, counties, and states. We're in a position to 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:35.760 see what's going on and learn um those various actions 0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:39.120 by elected officials across the nation, and we can make 0:23:39.200 --> 0:23:43.720 judgments is to how they're handling handling themselves and how 0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:49.000 they want to attack the problem. And what's happened now 0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:52.760 across the country is there is a sizable percentage of 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:56.480 the population that has now come to the conclusion that 0:23:56.880 --> 0:24:00.240 elected officials, many of them, are not to be trusted 0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:03.680 and that their judgments are faulty. Um, that they say 0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:06.760 one thing, but they don't believe it, or they don't 0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:09.880 act like they believe what they're saying. Uh. They impose 0:24:10.440 --> 0:24:13.639 certain rules and regulations and yet they ignore them themselves. 0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:17.000 And the population has had enough, And I think that's 0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:19.440 going to continue to grow, and the frustration is going 0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:24.399 to continue to grow even though we're facing this health crisis. UM, 0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:29.200 the frustration with leadership is um going to continue to grow, 0:24:29.560 --> 0:24:32.320 and that's going to result in some further changes down 0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:35.920 the road. So I saw a great video I think 0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:39.119 it was from San Bernardino, the police, the guy running 0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:42.879 the police out there, who pushed back on Gavin Newsom 0:24:42.880 --> 0:24:45.680 here in California trying to you know, shut down businesses 0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:49.439 as you referred to the lockdown which is really just 0:24:49.560 --> 0:24:53.240 wild here in California right now, with businesses being restaurants 0:24:53.240 --> 0:24:57.800 being forced to close, barbershops, all that stuff. And he 0:24:57.840 --> 0:25:00.600 brought up a great point though about how in California 0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:03.560 and it's in other states, these politicians are using the police, 0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:07.600 their weaponizing the police to fight their battles with mom 0:25:07.640 --> 0:25:10.359 and pop businesses. You talked to a lot of people 0:25:10.359 --> 0:25:13.440 still in law enforcement. What what's been the general reaction 0:25:13.600 --> 0:25:17.199 from from the people you deal with here about politicians 0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:20.359 demanding you go in and you know, lockdown and arrest 0:25:20.400 --> 0:25:24.840 people running a pizza shop. Well, I think, uh, there's 0:25:24.960 --> 0:25:30.720 frustration at every level of of the community, and that 0:25:30.720 --> 0:25:35.879 would include your public servants. UM. So I think the 0:25:37.000 --> 0:25:41.840 address your discussing is a speech by I think the 0:25:41.960 --> 0:25:46.720 Riverside County sheriff. There's about five sheriffs that have taken 0:25:46.800 --> 0:25:51.159 some pretty strong positions in in the state. You know, 0:25:51.200 --> 0:25:55.280 the state's divided, I think into fifty eight counties, and 0:25:55.359 --> 0:26:00.320 the sheriffs are constitutionally um protect the position. And it 0:26:00.440 --> 0:26:03.000 is one of the first things that we did when 0:26:03.119 --> 0:26:07.159 California's constitution was was put together and passed. It was 0:26:07.800 --> 0:26:11.840 it designates who the offices are and how the county 0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:15.080 should be run. The sheriff is is certainly one of them. 0:26:15.160 --> 0:26:19.080 And as some sheriffs may tell you, uh, the sheriff 0:26:19.200 --> 0:26:22.480 may have more votes than the than any of the 0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:25.560 members of the board of supervisors. So it's kind of 0:26:25.600 --> 0:26:27.840 interesting when you watch some of the nonsense that's gone 0:26:27.840 --> 0:26:31.679 on in Los Angeles with the power plays back and 0:26:31.720 --> 0:26:37.240 forth between the sheriff and the county supervisors, and um, 0:26:37.800 --> 0:26:40.640 you know, the sheriff's have said, wait a minute. I mean, 0:26:40.680 --> 0:26:43.439 I mean, look back and objectively look at that, and 0:26:43.520 --> 0:26:46.280 let me considered. I have a real responsibility. I swear 0:26:46.320 --> 0:26:49.760 an oath to the constitution also, and and in that 0:26:49.840 --> 0:26:53.720 oath I have to be sensitive to all of these issues. 0:26:53.760 --> 0:26:57.639 And I'm not going to, um, I'm not going to 0:26:57.720 --> 0:27:02.719 be oppressive and abusive to to a largely peaceful and 0:27:02.960 --> 0:27:07.880 responsible community. And I'm not going to be used um 0:27:08.400 --> 0:27:15.600 by some elected officials when they have no substantiated reason 0:27:15.760 --> 0:27:19.119 for the actions that they're taking. On one hand, they 0:27:19.119 --> 0:27:21.639 say it's about the science, except when you want to 0:27:21.680 --> 0:27:24.879 see the science, the science doesn't support their views. And 0:27:24.920 --> 0:27:26.840 then when you find them going out and doing the 0:27:26.880 --> 0:27:30.800 opposite of what they're demanding the public do. Uh, not 0:27:30.840 --> 0:27:33.639 only is there frustration, but you you're not buying it. 0:27:33.720 --> 0:27:36.840 And and it's not just the elected officials. Are the 0:27:36.840 --> 0:27:41.080 elected sheriffs that feel that way? That would be pervasive 0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:44.240 in the ranks. Um, you don't want to be used 0:27:44.320 --> 0:27:47.720 as a sheriff step at here as a police officer, Uh, 0:27:47.760 --> 0:27:50.199 to be a tool of somebody who's doing something that 0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:55.359 you believe is inappropriate and perhaps even unconstitutional. Yeah. And 0:27:55.680 --> 0:27:58.359 I have noticed that the phrase, and we've talked about 0:27:58.400 --> 0:28:00.480 on the podcast with your son here, that the out 0:28:00.480 --> 0:28:04.000 of an abundance of caution. Like I feel like these politicians, 0:28:04.040 --> 0:28:05.800 if they use that line, they think they can get 0:28:05.800 --> 0:28:09.919 away with anything. Uh. And and common sense. That's the 0:28:09.920 --> 0:28:12.679 thing that's lacking. You know, common sense is not common 0:28:12.800 --> 0:28:15.760 right now. But you look at around the country in 0:28:16.000 --> 0:28:21.120 certain states have opened up a lot more compared to California, 0:28:21.240 --> 0:28:24.639 and they don't have the problems that California has. And 0:28:24.720 --> 0:28:28.520 yet as you reference, you call the politicians out on 0:28:28.560 --> 0:28:31.320 this and they just do a tap dance, and so 0:28:31.359 --> 0:28:33.800 it just it's just going to continue on and on. 0:28:33.920 --> 0:28:36.920 But uh, if you were, if you were in charge, 0:28:36.960 --> 0:28:38.840 obviously we don't know all the data and all that 0:28:38.920 --> 0:28:40.480 we know a lot of it on the internet. But 0:28:40.480 --> 0:28:43.280 what do you think the proper way to handle what's 0:28:43.320 --> 0:28:45.840 been going on here with this public health situation with 0:28:45.880 --> 0:28:50.600 the COVID. Uh, if if you were in charge, what 0:28:50.680 --> 0:28:53.360 do you think the proper way to handle it would be? Well, so, 0:28:53.680 --> 0:28:58.120 so remember how we generally deal with a responsible group 0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:01.240 of people. You can start with chill run And what 0:29:01.520 --> 0:29:03.480 is our priority? If I was to tell you, what's 0:29:03.880 --> 0:29:07.280 one of the very most important things we do when 0:29:07.320 --> 0:29:10.360 we're raising children. You want to educate children. Certainly, you 0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:13.040 want to keep them healthy and safe, um, but we 0:29:13.080 --> 0:29:17.760 want to educate them. Education is a top priority. Police 0:29:17.800 --> 0:29:20.680 departments and sheriff's departments. We come in after everything else 0:29:20.720 --> 0:29:23.800 seems to have failed, and we're supposed to fix things. 0:29:23.840 --> 0:29:27.600 We're supposed to neutralize the threats, the problems, and deal 0:29:27.800 --> 0:29:31.720 with the the event itself. But the best way to 0:29:31.760 --> 0:29:34.680 do it is to prevent problems from happening. And so therefore, 0:29:34.760 --> 0:29:38.960 we want a robust educational system uh to take care 0:29:39.000 --> 0:29:42.360 of how we nurture and raise our children. Well, the 0:29:42.440 --> 0:29:46.440 same thing about education goes for adults. Um. We we 0:29:46.480 --> 0:29:52.080 should have launched a major educational effort that goes from 0:29:52.120 --> 0:29:56.120 the top of our state all the way through to 0:29:56.240 --> 0:30:00.200 the local community and make sure that we provide the 0:30:00.280 --> 0:30:05.320 best and most consistent unless they consistent twice uh. Information 0:30:05.440 --> 0:30:08.680 out there. People don't want to get exposed to this disease. 0:30:08.680 --> 0:30:12.320 People don't want to die. People want to live a 0:30:12.320 --> 0:30:16.680 healthy life. People believe in the constitution. Uh, they can 0:30:16.720 --> 0:30:20.320 express their free will, but they want to live. And 0:30:20.320 --> 0:30:23.479 when we start trying to treat them like cattle and 0:30:23.520 --> 0:30:26.440 heard them in different directions, UH, they've gotten to the 0:30:26.440 --> 0:30:29.600 point where they're they're not gonna be hearded. Um. So 0:30:29.920 --> 0:30:32.800 the best approach is always education. The best approach is 0:30:32.840 --> 0:30:36.560 always too patiently try to explain and get them to 0:30:36.720 --> 0:30:41.720 understand and follow without having to force and not use 0:30:41.800 --> 0:30:47.640 coercive force of police and sheriffs departments. Yeah, and we've 0:30:47.680 --> 0:30:50.040 seen as I said, you know, Florida they have had 0:30:50.120 --> 0:30:53.720 a more hands off approach, for example, and they don't 0:30:53.720 --> 0:30:56.920 have the problems that California is now. I also want 0:30:56.920 --> 0:30:59.320 to talk in this political climate that we're in, Chief, 0:31:00.080 --> 0:31:03.080 I love the fact that you, because of your your 0:31:03.160 --> 0:31:05.600 years and law enforcement from what I understand, from what 0:31:05.680 --> 0:31:08.720 your son tells me, and I've heard through the grapevine, 0:31:09.040 --> 0:31:13.040 you have great relationships with people who you completely disagree with. 0:31:13.080 --> 0:31:15.800 You referred to. We talked about George Gascon earlier, the 0:31:15.840 --> 0:31:19.400 district attorney in l A who you are completely, uh, 0:31:19.400 --> 0:31:21.080 the opposite of as far as his some of his 0:31:21.120 --> 0:31:23.520 political beliefs. But but you get along with these guys. 0:31:23.720 --> 0:31:26.120 We live in a world right now where if you 0:31:26.480 --> 0:31:31.760 disagree politically, you you cannot be friends like you know, 0:31:32.320 --> 0:31:34.560 I'm I'm more like you where I have friends that 0:31:34.600 --> 0:31:37.320 are you know, I disagree with politically. But uh, you know, 0:31:37.360 --> 0:31:40.040 how did we get to this point where now if 0:31:40.040 --> 0:31:45.600 you if you're not in lockstep, you're done. Yeah, Yeah, 0:31:45.720 --> 0:31:49.800 there's there's no question, and it's like, um, and we 0:31:49.840 --> 0:31:54.760 can talk politics here. We have so polarized our political 0:31:54.880 --> 0:31:59.320 environment here that it it's now pervasive throughout life in 0:31:59.360 --> 0:32:02.640 the entire tree. Now you line up whether you're to 0:32:02.720 --> 0:32:04.680 the left or to the right of center, and we 0:32:04.760 --> 0:32:07.680 can't find the middle ground anymore. Used to be the 0:32:07.760 --> 0:32:14.040 measure of UM. Successful politician was figuring out a way 0:32:14.080 --> 0:32:17.960 to find win win propositions, meeting somewhere in the in 0:32:18.000 --> 0:32:21.720 the middle. Um And. And that's the way you accomplish 0:32:21.840 --> 0:32:25.480 things by meeting and working with each other. And we're 0:32:25.480 --> 0:32:28.240 not doing that. We seem to have gotten to the 0:32:28.320 --> 0:32:33.320 point where the political parties and the nature of the 0:32:33.400 --> 0:32:39.400 parties and their philosophies supersedes the commitment to the United 0:32:39.440 --> 0:32:42.600 States itself, to the Constitution and to the people of 0:32:42.640 --> 0:32:47.280 the United States. UM. And it's a selfish and absolutely 0:32:47.360 --> 0:32:50.320 selfish way to look at politics, to think of you 0:32:50.400 --> 0:32:53.040 and your party first and not think of the American 0:32:53.080 --> 0:32:56.840 public in adherence to the Constitution and what's best for 0:32:56.880 --> 0:33:00.480 the United States. And that's where we are. And until 0:33:00.520 --> 0:33:04.520 we can find elective officials that are willing to do that, 0:33:04.720 --> 0:33:06.280 we're going to be in a world to hurt and 0:33:06.320 --> 0:33:08.280 guess who's going to take advantage of it. I mean, 0:33:08.280 --> 0:33:10.360 we're reading about it the last couple of days. There 0:33:10.360 --> 0:33:14.520 are people constantly probing, constantly looking for a way to 0:33:14.600 --> 0:33:19.600 weaken the nature of the United States. The rule of 0:33:19.680 --> 0:33:23.560 law here has been undermined now for many years, and 0:33:23.640 --> 0:33:26.040 so there are people who are they don't have the 0:33:26.080 --> 0:33:28.680 best interests of the people the United States in mind, 0:33:29.560 --> 0:33:32.920 political power and political power on the international stage as 0:33:32.960 --> 0:33:36.400 a priority for a lot of people and a lot 0:33:36.440 --> 0:33:40.720 of organizations, and frankly, those of us on this call, 0:33:40.800 --> 0:33:43.440 we really don't count for much. How much of this 0:33:43.520 --> 0:33:48.040 has to do us horn ourselves out to the international community, 0:33:48.080 --> 0:33:55.160 whether it's China, Russia, the UK, Germany, whatever it may be. 0:33:55.160 --> 0:33:58.440 Because we had this conversation off the air, but the 0:33:58.520 --> 0:34:04.400 Chinese have systematically the infiltrated every area of our nation, 0:34:04.480 --> 0:34:11.919 whether it's politically, government, pharmaceuticals and medicine, academics, like they've 0:34:12.000 --> 0:34:15.560 gone through and have taken shots at us and have 0:34:16.400 --> 0:34:20.040 you know, taken a little skin off the off the body. 0:34:20.719 --> 0:34:23.239 We don't even know where we're compromised. That's how bad 0:34:23.280 --> 0:34:26.640 it is. Um. I I remember pointing out a little 0:34:26.680 --> 0:34:28.640 over a year maybe eighteen months ago to a good 0:34:28.640 --> 0:34:32.800 friend of mine. UM the fact that we seem to 0:34:32.840 --> 0:34:38.960 be arresting professors across the country UM at some of 0:34:39.000 --> 0:34:43.240 our major universities for their involvement with the Communist Chinese 0:34:43.320 --> 0:34:48.360 Party UH activities. And and then eventually we learn of 0:34:48.560 --> 0:34:51.839 the gazillions of dollars that are being pumped into these 0:34:51.920 --> 0:34:57.520 universities donations. Sometimes we're not even they're not even reported, 0:34:57.600 --> 0:35:01.560 but but we're talking about billions of dollars that have 0:35:01.719 --> 0:35:05.839 been funneled into the country. And there's a reason for that. UH, 0:35:05.880 --> 0:35:10.920 there's a reason that you know, they're contacting local mayors 0:35:11.000 --> 0:35:14.160 and trying to select people who have shall we stay 0:35:14.840 --> 0:35:18.319 ambition and that may one day become Congress people and 0:35:18.680 --> 0:35:21.560 may find themselves on the Intelligence Committee. There's a reason 0:35:21.600 --> 0:35:24.120 for all of that that doesn't have by accident. These 0:35:24.120 --> 0:35:27.040 are people that are help bent on doing what they 0:35:27.080 --> 0:35:30.920 think is in their interests. And we we seem to 0:35:30.960 --> 0:35:33.759 be naive, We seem to have our head in the sands, 0:35:33.800 --> 0:35:36.480 so to speak, not to be aware of this stuff, 0:35:36.560 --> 0:35:40.719 or we're not being educated well enough by the responsible 0:35:40.840 --> 0:35:44.640 organizations in our government to be aware of this. UM 0:35:44.760 --> 0:35:47.840 we we we we only have to look at what 0:35:48.000 --> 0:35:51.920 going what is going on in the university uh systems 0:35:52.040 --> 0:35:56.440 that to find out how threatening this is because our 0:35:56.560 --> 0:36:00.200 young people are getting hit with things that lay eater 0:36:00.360 --> 0:36:04.799 on translate into problems for our way of life. You know, 0:36:04.840 --> 0:36:07.160 we we believe we have a great way of life. 0:36:07.200 --> 0:36:09.879 We believe this is a great country, and there are 0:36:09.920 --> 0:36:14.600 people outside of the country that believe we are a 0:36:14.640 --> 0:36:17.360 major threat to the rest of the of the world. 0:36:17.960 --> 0:36:19.759 You know, I think we all want to get to 0:36:19.840 --> 0:36:22.520 the Star Trek universe at some point where we all 0:36:22.520 --> 0:36:25.800 get along and all work together, et cetera. But across 0:36:25.840 --> 0:36:28.920 the globe we've demonstrated we continue to demonstrate we're not 0:36:29.000 --> 0:36:32.640 ready to do that yet. And those people that think 0:36:32.640 --> 0:36:35.880 we can just flip the switch and do it are 0:36:35.920 --> 0:36:39.360 are are really causing problems on the international stage, and 0:36:39.360 --> 0:36:41.840 they're certainly causing problems in this country. So do you 0:36:41.880 --> 0:36:45.400 think the root is money? I think money is a 0:36:45.560 --> 0:36:51.280 means by which people can achieve the ideology. So they know, um, 0:36:51.440 --> 0:36:54.080 those that have money to burn, so to speak, No, 0:36:54.320 --> 0:36:58.600 that money can be used to accomplish what their goal is. 0:36:59.320 --> 0:37:06.480 UM value money. It's it's a cornerstone of our capitalistic system. Um, 0:37:06.520 --> 0:37:09.920 we measure success that way. We like the toys, we 0:37:10.040 --> 0:37:12.920 like to buy things and own things, and we like 0:37:13.040 --> 0:37:18.959 to be viewed as uh significantly successful, etcetera. So money 0:37:19.120 --> 0:37:23.719 becomes a natural uh tool to be used against us. 0:37:24.080 --> 0:37:28.440 And it is so when we have positions like Eric 0:37:28.520 --> 0:37:32.480 Swalwell a couple of days ago and Diane Feinstein's aid 0:37:32.640 --> 0:37:35.239 from I think a year or two ago, that have 0:37:35.400 --> 0:37:38.400 been caught or found to be compromised or at working 0:37:38.440 --> 0:37:43.000 for a foreign intelligence agency or a government. What do 0:37:43.040 --> 0:37:46.680 you recommend happens to those individuals here that are are 0:37:46.719 --> 0:37:50.560 actually sitting in a position of power politically. Well, there's 0:37:50.600 --> 0:37:53.239 a question of what the investigations might tell you if 0:37:53.280 --> 0:37:57.040 you do an honest investigation. UM, it shouldn't be surprising 0:37:57.080 --> 0:38:01.520 to anyone that experts know how to work us. You know, 0:38:01.600 --> 0:38:03.640 they've spent a lot of time, they've spent years. They 0:38:03.680 --> 0:38:10.440 know how to successfully um inject themselves into the political 0:38:10.960 --> 0:38:14.360 life of a community or the or the country. And 0:38:14.360 --> 0:38:16.360 they can do it in a sophisticated way. And you 0:38:16.440 --> 0:38:19.040 might not even know it's happening to you until you 0:38:19.160 --> 0:38:22.040 end up in a situation where you're other elbows with somebody. 0:38:22.440 --> 0:38:25.960 You're having dinner with somebody, UM, but you don't understand 0:38:26.000 --> 0:38:30.400 that there's there's another reason other than the friendship uh 0:38:30.440 --> 0:38:32.440 that they have. And I mean we see this in 0:38:32.480 --> 0:38:35.880 criminal activities. I mean, I worked undercovering arcotics back in 0:38:36.040 --> 0:38:39.000 nineteen seventy one, and you can see it then with 0:38:39.040 --> 0:38:42.279 the people that you were interacting with. They're not Communist 0:38:42.280 --> 0:38:46.040 spies or agents, etcetera. But they were criminals and they 0:38:46.080 --> 0:38:47.879 had a reason for the things that they were doing. 0:38:48.040 --> 0:38:51.320 And you know, you you kind of learn when you 0:38:51.360 --> 0:38:53.760 get exposed to it. And some people in our country 0:38:54.000 --> 0:38:58.439 FBI UM are are intelligence agencies that are far more 0:38:58.480 --> 0:39:02.840 sophisticated and understand what we're dealing with. But we're not. 0:39:02.960 --> 0:39:05.680 We're not educated at the level we need to be 0:39:06.000 --> 0:39:07.920 what the threat is. And I don't think most of 0:39:07.920 --> 0:39:13.040 our elected officials are educated enough or insulated from the 0:39:13.120 --> 0:39:17.240 kinds of things that can actually cause us grief. And 0:39:17.920 --> 0:39:21.880 although I'm not a fan of Eric Swallwell's UM, I 0:39:21.880 --> 0:39:24.960 wouldn't be the I wouldn't be one to immediately assume 0:39:25.080 --> 0:39:29.960 that he was an agent UM for the Communist Chinese. 0:39:30.000 --> 0:39:31.919 I wouldn't say that at all. He could he could 0:39:31.920 --> 0:39:36.480 clearly and easily just be a duke um and not 0:39:36.560 --> 0:39:40.400 know any better. Uh, you know, which is remarkable if 0:39:40.440 --> 0:39:42.759 you listen to some of the things that he said 0:39:42.800 --> 0:39:46.399 over the last four years. So um, but I think 0:39:46.760 --> 0:39:48.560 I think we have to realize there are people that 0:39:48.600 --> 0:39:54.319 are twenty four seven. They are looking to damage the 0:39:54.440 --> 0:39:59.960 United States and to subvert our government, whereas we may 0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:04.040 and not even be thinking about those things throughout the 0:40:04.040 --> 0:40:07.319 course of our days. One of the ways that they 0:40:07.760 --> 0:40:10.200 have gone out for us is, I think we can 0:40:10.200 --> 0:40:12.480 all agree with this is the way that the news 0:40:13.440 --> 0:40:17.440 has been published to the masses, whether it's left leaning 0:40:17.960 --> 0:40:23.680 or right leaning. Is there a fix for that? Well, 0:40:23.760 --> 0:40:27.319 that's that's really problematic when we get into it. So 0:40:27.560 --> 0:40:29.480 you know, I fashioned myself a little bit of an 0:40:29.480 --> 0:40:35.840 expert in dealing with the news media. I also recognize 0:40:35.960 --> 0:40:40.360 that rather than seeing a large conspiracy here, we have 0:40:40.440 --> 0:40:43.160 to understand who we're dealing with. His individuals and they 0:40:43.200 --> 0:40:47.319 have some common traits, um, but they it's the way 0:40:47.360 --> 0:40:49.879 they look at themselves and who they are, and it's 0:40:49.920 --> 0:40:53.520 what their personal belief system is that too frequently gets 0:40:53.520 --> 0:40:56.840 in the way of news and it becomes opinion. And 0:40:56.920 --> 0:41:01.080 it also then provides a slant to the way stories carried, etcetera. 0:41:01.280 --> 0:41:06.280 Now that's separate and apart from what the the um 0:41:06.360 --> 0:41:10.359 the actual agencies that hire the reporters and put them 0:41:10.400 --> 0:41:13.560 on the air or publish their stories. That's that's a 0:41:13.640 --> 0:41:17.480 completely different issue, because again there's an ideology at the 0:41:17.520 --> 0:41:20.600 top of those organizations, whether it be The New York Times, 0:41:20.719 --> 0:41:25.400 watching the Post, ABC News, NBC, there are bosses in 0:41:25.520 --> 0:41:29.240 control that are guiding and directing what is going on below, 0:41:29.280 --> 0:41:33.480 and we've seen some examples recently with CNN. So you know, 0:41:33.560 --> 0:41:37.520 if you get this desire to unify on on a 0:41:37.600 --> 0:41:42.080 purpose to be accomplished, and you have the power of 0:41:42.360 --> 0:41:47.360 your organization to advance that, then you can be pretty 0:41:47.400 --> 0:41:51.000 destructive to the extent that you can influence the people 0:41:51.040 --> 0:41:53.880 that follow you. But when you have so many of 0:41:53.920 --> 0:41:57.560 them that philosophically agree on something, the question then becomes 0:41:58.320 --> 0:42:01.800 is the public well served? I happen to believe that 0:42:02.920 --> 0:42:08.520 in a democracy, UM, we all need as much objective 0:42:08.520 --> 0:42:11.040 information as we can get so that we can make 0:42:11.080 --> 0:42:14.759 good decisions. Good decisions on who we elect office is 0:42:14.960 --> 0:42:17.319 what we're talking about here. So I'd like to know 0:42:17.400 --> 0:42:21.600 the truth about all of these candidates. And the question 0:42:21.640 --> 0:42:23.919 is am I getting it or am I getting only 0:42:24.000 --> 0:42:25.759 half of the story? Which is the half of the 0:42:25.760 --> 0:42:29.680 story that I'm allowed to hear. Uh So, I want 0:42:29.680 --> 0:42:32.040 a free press and I want an objective press, and 0:42:32.080 --> 0:42:34.520 I want to hear both sides of the stories. We're 0:42:34.520 --> 0:42:37.600 not a country that says, okay, we have this. These 0:42:37.640 --> 0:42:41.080 are the left newspapers and these are the right newspapers, etcetera. 0:42:41.239 --> 0:42:43.600 We have our our papers who want to tell us 0:42:43.600 --> 0:42:47.799 that they're telling us the truth. Our agencies on television 0:42:47.880 --> 0:42:49.640 want to tell us that they're telling us the truth. 0:42:50.280 --> 0:42:53.000 But the question is are they really on one side 0:42:53.120 --> 0:42:56.960 of the political spectrum. I'm gonna pivot real quick, and 0:42:57.120 --> 0:42:59.840 uh Ben can jump in on this because I know 0:43:00.000 --> 0:43:03.040 you'll have some fun with it. Obviously, the O J stuff, 0:43:03.080 --> 0:43:07.279 that's one thing. The Michael Jackson cases are another. But 0:43:07.440 --> 0:43:12.799 the North Hollywood shootout, how would you have handled that 0:43:13.200 --> 0:43:18.759 if you were in charge? Well, it's a tactical situation 0:43:18.800 --> 0:43:21.719 once it starts going down. They so they effectively did 0:43:21.880 --> 0:43:26.080 what they should have done. Um, you know the first units, 0:43:26.080 --> 0:43:28.400 and I happen to know one of the officers in 0:43:28.440 --> 0:43:31.040 the first unit that was there when you get when 0:43:31.040 --> 0:43:34.160 you get to that kind of a situation, you try 0:43:34.200 --> 0:43:37.799 to secure the perimeter. You bring in all the resources 0:43:37.840 --> 0:43:40.160 that you needed. They did all of that stuff, but 0:43:40.840 --> 0:43:44.839 we had been in a situation where essentially we had 0:43:44.920 --> 0:43:48.319 shotguns in side arms, and then you're dealing with people 0:43:48.360 --> 0:43:51.880 that are fully equipped for war, not only with body 0:43:52.000 --> 0:43:55.120 armor but the types of weapons that they had. So 0:43:55.280 --> 0:43:58.040 when you have automatic weapons, you have armor piercing rounds 0:43:58.040 --> 0:43:59.719 and things like that, you're ready to see. You know, 0:43:59.800 --> 0:44:03.680 you're a small infantry company and and so you know, 0:44:03.760 --> 0:44:06.360 I think we ended up having ten or eleven officers 0:44:06.680 --> 0:44:10.920 wounded in that two of them seriously, um you know, 0:44:11.040 --> 0:44:15.800 shot through the femur and absolutely vaporized like four inches 0:44:15.880 --> 0:44:19.319 of bone in the femer. I think for both of them, UM, 0:44:19.680 --> 0:44:23.080 terrible situations. Yet we didn't lose anyone, but easily could 0:44:23.080 --> 0:44:27.440 have lost them. And so um, they did what they 0:44:27.480 --> 0:44:31.560 needed to do, and eventually one was killed. He was 0:44:31.600 --> 0:44:35.279 shot simultaneously through the spinal cord at the same time 0:44:35.280 --> 0:44:38.160 he pulled the trigger and killed himself. So both of 0:44:38.160 --> 0:44:42.280 those UM bullets ended his life. And then the second 0:44:42.320 --> 0:44:44.600 one ended up down the street, and three or three 0:44:44.640 --> 0:44:47.640 of the guys that used to work at SLAT when 0:44:47.680 --> 0:44:50.919 when I was at metro Um, they were the people 0:44:50.960 --> 0:44:55.040 that ended up confronting him and he lost that firefight 0:44:55.080 --> 0:44:58.600 and that that ended it. But that was you know, 0:44:58.640 --> 0:45:02.399 as that thing unfold it's easy to go back and say, well, 0:45:02.400 --> 0:45:04.839 this is what we had and this is the best 0:45:04.840 --> 0:45:06.799 way to have approached at et cetera. But that's not 0:45:06.840 --> 0:45:10.880 how the real world works. The real world worked exactly 0:45:10.920 --> 0:45:12.960 the way you saw it on TV and live action. 0:45:13.520 --> 0:45:16.160 Is this started unfolding before your eyes, and it's a 0:45:16.280 --> 0:45:19.480 dynamic situation that everybody's trying to respond to and trying 0:45:19.520 --> 0:45:22.600 to make good decisions, trying not to get themselves killed 0:45:22.600 --> 0:45:25.600 along the way, and not trying to protect the community. 0:45:26.520 --> 0:45:30.200 Pretty interesting case. Yeah, and chief when you're when you're 0:45:30.200 --> 0:45:32.720 out and about, right when you're you're out and about, 0:45:32.960 --> 0:45:35.600 is there a day in normal times when someone doesn't 0:45:35.600 --> 0:45:41.200 bring up the O J case to you? Well, you know, 0:45:41.320 --> 0:45:43.680 I just I did something a few months ago that 0:45:43.800 --> 0:45:46.400 was just not television in October. It was a British 0:45:46.400 --> 0:45:50.880 production company. And I tell people that's a that's a 0:45:50.880 --> 0:45:53.839 case that will never go away because you'll remember at 0:45:53.840 --> 0:45:58.000 the time it happened the way, uh it impacted the country, 0:45:58.200 --> 0:46:01.880 and it's like, uh, there were so many different hooks 0:46:01.920 --> 0:46:06.440 that this had into the community. People that were into sports, 0:46:06.560 --> 0:46:09.680 people that were into movies and television, people that were 0:46:09.719 --> 0:46:16.080 into advertising and marketing, people that cared about society, the 0:46:16.560 --> 0:46:20.200 racial issue and those angles. All those things created a 0:46:20.280 --> 0:46:23.640 following that made that one of those once in a 0:46:23.800 --> 0:46:28.640 century types of stories that just gathered enormous interests. I 0:46:28.719 --> 0:46:32.279 run into people to this day and it'll it'll come 0:46:32.360 --> 0:46:35.440 up um where people want to talk about it and 0:46:35.480 --> 0:46:38.839 I want to talk about it um as one of 0:46:38.880 --> 0:46:42.360 those moments in their lives where they remember every detail 0:46:42.400 --> 0:46:44.040 about it. I talked to somebody the other day it 0:46:44.120 --> 0:46:46.840 was like, yeah, I followed it religiously, all of it. 0:46:46.840 --> 0:46:49.960 It's really yeah. I mean I find those people all 0:46:49.960 --> 0:46:56.560 the time where they find uh interesting perspectives. Um. Because 0:46:56.560 --> 0:47:00.040 it was very dramatic. My part time job for of 0:47:00.120 --> 0:47:02.840 yusually used to reach scripts at night in the middle 0:47:02.840 --> 0:47:05.000 of the night to be rooting scripts for Steven Bocco, 0:47:05.080 --> 0:47:08.239 whether it's Hill Street Blues or one of the other programs. 0:47:08.239 --> 0:47:10.719 But uh so I got to know some of the 0:47:10.760 --> 0:47:13.600 producers and directors and a few of the actors, but 0:47:13.640 --> 0:47:16.279 it was. It was interesting in dealing with some of 0:47:16.320 --> 0:47:20.680 them in the years after the Simpson case. They would 0:47:20.680 --> 0:47:23.520 tell me that, hey, this is this is what I 0:47:23.560 --> 0:47:25.839 do for a living. I do drama. You know, I'm 0:47:25.880 --> 0:47:28.440 thinking of these things. And he said that day I 0:47:28.560 --> 0:47:31.360 thinking of One director in particularly said that day I 0:47:31.400 --> 0:47:35.239 spent the whole day sitting in my bed at Big Sir, 0:47:36.160 --> 0:47:40.080 watching what happened in this thing, this event, and watching 0:47:40.080 --> 0:47:42.839 you on television and the two news conferences. He said, 0:47:42.880 --> 0:47:45.000 I'll never forget it. It was one of those seminal 0:47:45.080 --> 0:47:48.919 moments in my you know, life in this country. He said, 0:47:48.960 --> 0:47:51.359 it just made that much of an impression on me. Well, 0:47:52.440 --> 0:47:57.200 it did. It made that much of oppression on people. Uh, 0:47:57.239 --> 0:47:59.120 it turns out around the globe. You know. A couple 0:47:59.160 --> 0:48:01.200 of years ago, I'm down on Argentina with one of 0:48:01.239 --> 0:48:04.320 the United States national teams and I'm in a meeting 0:48:04.320 --> 0:48:07.040 with their Olympic Committee people. And the guy who spoke 0:48:07.080 --> 0:48:08.799 in just leaked over and he said, the guys are 0:48:08.800 --> 0:48:10.799 talking about Jenny said, what do you mean they're talking 0:48:10.840 --> 0:48:13.040 about me? We're down here to talk about the sport. 0:48:13.880 --> 0:48:15.640 He said, They're all talking about you because they all 0:48:15.680 --> 0:48:18.279 watched you and the Simpson thing. And I'm thinking, these 0:48:18.320 --> 0:48:21.240 guys are in buenas aries and they're talking about watching 0:48:21.280 --> 0:48:24.960 the Simpson thing. It's like craziness. But that's what happened. 0:48:25.480 --> 0:48:28.360 It was it was everywhere, and it was of great 0:48:28.440 --> 0:48:31.920 interest for a number of different reasons. And No, I 0:48:31.960 --> 0:48:34.160 don't expect it will go away for a while. I mean, 0:48:34.200 --> 0:48:36.560 they're teaching as a result of this thing. There are 0:48:36.560 --> 0:48:39.360 a lot of people that just want to They remembered 0:48:39.440 --> 0:48:41.920 so clearly, and there was so much of a following 0:48:42.040 --> 0:48:45.319 and there's there's so much media about it that, um, 0:48:45.719 --> 0:48:48.919 I don't expect it's going to go away for decades now. 0:48:48.920 --> 0:48:51.799 Early on, Like, I know you've been asked a million times, 0:48:51.800 --> 0:48:55.239 but when you first found out about this and you 0:48:55.360 --> 0:48:58.319 realized that o J could be tied to it, Like, 0:48:58.400 --> 0:49:02.160 what was the reaction among the department there, the people 0:49:02.200 --> 0:49:04.160 around you when you found out, oh my god, this 0:49:04.239 --> 0:49:07.480 could be you know, a legendary figure like oh J 0:49:07.640 --> 0:49:10.439 could be involved in something like this. Well, it kind 0:49:10.480 --> 0:49:13.120 of goes back to that Monday morning. I got into 0:49:13.120 --> 0:49:16.480 the office between eight and nine o'clock as I'm as 0:49:16.520 --> 0:49:18.920 I usually do, and uh I was the commander at 0:49:18.920 --> 0:49:23.320 the time, and working with with me was Lieutenant John Duncan, 0:49:23.360 --> 0:49:26.880 who handled a lot of the press and um I 0:49:26.920 --> 0:49:29.239 would have him brief me every morning on anything that 0:49:29.280 --> 0:49:32.600 occurred overnight or over the weekends. And John came in 0:49:32.760 --> 0:49:35.160 and uh I said, anything going on over the weekend? 0:49:35.200 --> 0:49:37.120 He said, not really, it was really quiet. He said, 0:49:37.239 --> 0:49:40.760 although we did have a double homicide in Brentwood, said John, 0:49:41.880 --> 0:49:44.440 a double homicide in Brentwood. We don't even get murders 0:49:44.480 --> 0:49:47.760 in Brentwood. When you talking about double homicide, what's the story? 0:49:47.800 --> 0:49:51.960 And he says, uh, O J. Simpson's ex wife. And 0:49:52.040 --> 0:49:58.120 I said, quote O. J. Simpson's ex wife. Where is O. J. Simpson? 0:49:59.400 --> 0:50:02.080 And he told me, which is interesting because you know 0:50:02.080 --> 0:50:05.000 a lot of people had that rush to judgment charge 0:50:05.040 --> 0:50:06.719 they wanted to make against the l a p D. 0:50:06.880 --> 0:50:09.480 But he said this, He said, I talked to the 0:50:09.480 --> 0:50:12.680 guys from Robbert Homicide and they said he didn't have 0:50:12.680 --> 0:50:15.160 any to do with it. He's in Chicago. Well, that 0:50:15.280 --> 0:50:19.839 was early information. So often the first information you get 0:50:19.920 --> 0:50:22.920 is not totally accurate. That's why you investigate things and 0:50:22.960 --> 0:50:27.279 it takes time. But the first briefing I received. I 0:50:27.360 --> 0:50:31.120 asked that question specifically, and his answer was, now, he 0:50:31.160 --> 0:50:32.919 didn't have anything to do with it. The guys say 0:50:32.960 --> 0:50:36.560 he's in Chicago. Then later on that day, you know, 0:50:36.680 --> 0:50:40.120 he returns, and then there's an interview, and then we're 0:50:40.160 --> 0:50:45.520 watching this unfold. I'm getting phone calls from particularly from 0:50:45.880 --> 0:50:49.640 UM New York and Miami, talking about the O J. 0:50:49.760 --> 0:50:53.359 Simpson I didn't know. Um A lot of us grew 0:50:53.440 --> 0:50:55.960 up here that we're big U c l A Basketball 0:50:56.040 --> 0:50:58.600 fans because we all loved John Wooden and he was 0:50:58.680 --> 0:51:02.719 highly successful. And then we were also big USC football 0:51:02.800 --> 0:51:07.560 fans because John McKay was fantastic and really fun to 0:51:07.640 --> 0:51:10.759 follow and had great football teams. And then we had 0:51:10.760 --> 0:51:15.200 O J. Simpson who was an incredible running back. And UM, 0:51:15.480 --> 0:51:18.560 so we were big fans. And so as the story 0:51:18.680 --> 0:51:22.520 starts unfold over a few days, it starts looking like, oh, 0:51:22.560 --> 0:51:27.799 he he probably did too. O J. Simpson did this, 0:51:27.880 --> 0:51:30.040 and he had people shaking her head. They just couldn't 0:51:30.080 --> 0:51:32.640 believe it. And and it's in a lot of ways, 0:51:32.640 --> 0:51:35.920 were like the general public, which is we watch people 0:51:35.920 --> 0:51:39.400 on television and we think we know them. We watched 0:51:39.480 --> 0:51:42.279 interviews after they've been successful you know, they scored the 0:51:42.320 --> 0:51:47.040 winning touchdown whatever, and they seem likable and warm and fuzzy. Uh. 0:51:47.080 --> 0:51:49.600 They do a broadcast or they're in a TV program 0:51:49.760 --> 0:51:52.319 or a movie, and we like them and follow them, 0:51:52.360 --> 0:51:55.160 and we know the successes of their life, and we 0:51:55.239 --> 0:51:58.480 feel we know these people. And that's always a problem 0:51:58.520 --> 0:52:01.680 for prosecutors when they deal with you know, V I. P. 0:52:01.960 --> 0:52:06.399 S Um, somebody with a high profile, because people think 0:52:06.440 --> 0:52:08.960 they know them. Well, we as we found out, we 0:52:09.000 --> 0:52:13.239 didn't know O. J. Simpson. Um. Eventually we found out 0:52:13.280 --> 0:52:18.080 plenty about O. J. Simpson and so it was it 0:52:18.200 --> 0:52:22.840 was surprising, it was disappointing. And uh and yet have 0:52:22.920 --> 0:52:27.520 you been around a while, you understand that, Uh, these 0:52:27.560 --> 0:52:31.800 things do happen. It happened in this case, tragic case, 0:52:31.920 --> 0:52:34.360 and the one thing that seems to get lost. But 0:52:34.440 --> 0:52:36.560 I always make sure I bring it up as we've 0:52:36.560 --> 0:52:39.520 got to think of those two young people who didn't 0:52:39.560 --> 0:52:42.200 deserve to die, and they certainly didn't deserve to die 0:52:42.320 --> 0:52:46.440 like that. Absolutely, what what do you think happened to 0:52:46.480 --> 0:52:50.560 the murder weapon? Well, he had apple time to get 0:52:50.680 --> 0:52:54.759 rid of it. Um. You know, there's plenty of speculation 0:52:54.960 --> 0:52:59.600 on that. I don't have any speculations that there was 0:52:59.680 --> 0:53:04.840 somebody else involved. Um, I believe that, you know, not 0:53:04.920 --> 0:53:08.040 only did he do it, but he's probably responsible for 0:53:08.080 --> 0:53:12.319 whatever happened with it. Um. And it's gone. And so 0:53:12.440 --> 0:53:14.239 you know, you remember this story a couple of years 0:53:14.239 --> 0:53:16.719 ago over they thought they found the potential knife and 0:53:16.760 --> 0:53:21.200 it didn't turn out to be etcetera. UM. A lot 0:53:21.200 --> 0:53:26.200 of a lot of cases you're short on um, on evidence, 0:53:26.239 --> 0:53:30.279 you're short on eyewitnesses, you're short on a lot of 0:53:30.280 --> 0:53:32.560 things that you think you need. But the O. J. 0:53:32.640 --> 0:53:36.319 Simpson case, yeah, lacking lacking the knife, but the O. J. 0:53:36.440 --> 0:53:41.440 Simpson case had tremendous amount of evidence to the extent 0:53:41.520 --> 0:53:44.560 that you there should be no doubt in anyone's mind, 0:53:44.600 --> 0:53:48.120 and a lot of people, UM, I really don't have 0:53:48.200 --> 0:53:51.879 any doubt that he did it. Yeah, when you chief, 0:53:51.880 --> 0:53:54.600 when you see O J now on Twitter golfing in 0:53:54.680 --> 0:53:57.960 Vegas and all that, and you saw the photos and 0:53:58.000 --> 0:54:00.879 all the evidence in that case goes through your mind 0:54:00.880 --> 0:54:03.120 when you know, I went to jail for a while 0:54:03.200 --> 0:54:05.759 for a crime in Nevada, but he's seems to be 0:54:05.840 --> 0:54:10.080 living living a pretty good life right now. Yeah, Well, 0:54:10.080 --> 0:54:12.400 I think back to what I heard early on, actually 0:54:12.440 --> 0:54:14.520 before I became a police officer. I mean, I didn't 0:54:14.560 --> 0:54:16.120 grow up wanting to be a police officer. And I 0:54:16.920 --> 0:54:21.279 ended up uh going to l A. Harvard College, one 0:54:21.320 --> 0:54:25.239 of our local community colleges here in Los Angeles, and 0:54:25.280 --> 0:54:28.640 so Harvard College down here right off the Harbor Freeway 0:54:28.360 --> 0:54:32.920 in Wilmington's and I took some police science classes. That boy, 0:54:32.960 --> 0:54:36.640 I was hooked in, I mean immediately hooked. We had 0:54:36.680 --> 0:54:38.719 a lieutenant down here that was teaching. The name was 0:54:38.800 --> 0:54:43.600 Rudy da Leone. He eventually retired as a captain from 0:54:43.600 --> 0:54:46.799 our Harlembeck uh station. And Rudy was like the pied 0:54:46.960 --> 0:54:49.400 piper of l A p D. I don't know how 0:54:49.400 --> 0:54:51.400 many hundreds of us ended up joining the l A 0:54:51.480 --> 0:54:53.200 p D over all the years that he taught at 0:54:53.200 --> 0:54:56.560 Harvard College. But one of the things that we've always 0:54:56.560 --> 0:54:59.640 heard about, and you hear it expressed in law school 0:54:59.760 --> 0:55:03.560 and here to express all the time and philosophy courses, etcetera. 0:55:04.200 --> 0:55:08.640 We'd rather a hundred guilty people get released than put 0:55:08.680 --> 0:55:12.400 an innocent person in jail or even worse, you know, 0:55:12.560 --> 0:55:16.040 have them executed. That it's the way the system works. 0:55:16.480 --> 0:55:20.440 You have to believe that we have a great system 0:55:20.560 --> 0:55:25.759 of jurisprudence here. You have to believe in the jury system, um, 0:55:25.800 --> 0:55:28.600 And it's not going to be perfect. And so some 0:55:28.600 --> 0:55:31.799 some some bad guys are gonna walk away. They're gonna 0:55:31.840 --> 0:55:34.360 take their chances with the jury, and the jury is 0:55:34.400 --> 0:55:37.359 going to come back and say, we're just not convinced enough. 0:55:37.880 --> 0:55:40.560 They may go artificially in their minds from beyond a 0:55:40.600 --> 0:55:45.240 reasonable doubt, too, beyond any doubt, and they're gonna say, 0:55:45.800 --> 0:55:48.719 we can't convict you, and you go out the door. 0:55:49.120 --> 0:55:52.360 And if you believe in the system, and all of 0:55:52.400 --> 0:55:55.759 these law enforcement officers that swear an oath to do 0:55:55.960 --> 0:55:57.960 the best they can for the community and believe in 0:55:58.000 --> 0:56:01.440 the system, they shake their head. You know, I watched 0:56:01.440 --> 0:56:04.879 in the yearly seventies, I think in consecutive years where 0:56:04.960 --> 0:56:09.920 guys that had murdered l A police officers um walked 0:56:09.920 --> 0:56:14.880 out of court because juries had come loose, and it 0:56:15.000 --> 0:56:18.719 was just like stunning, UM. But you have to recognize 0:56:18.760 --> 0:56:21.440 that it happens. And celebrities do get a break sometimes 0:56:21.480 --> 0:56:25.359 from the fact that the community thinks they know them 0:56:25.400 --> 0:56:29.000 and jurors are apt to give them more leeway than 0:56:29.200 --> 0:56:33.120 someone else and so it's a little bit of frustration 0:56:33.200 --> 0:56:35.279 and you shake your head. Like I said, I kind 0:56:35.280 --> 0:56:39.520 of think of the poor victims, um this, this guy. 0:56:39.680 --> 0:56:43.480 Eventually we have to hope he pays the price. He'll 0:56:43.520 --> 0:56:48.200 answer to somebody far more powerful than us, but hopefully 0:56:48.200 --> 0:56:51.719 he'll be held accountable for it. But it's, um yeah, 0:56:51.800 --> 0:56:55.839 it's a it's a frustrating thing. Absolutely, listen, Chief, thank you. 0:56:55.880 --> 0:56:57.680 I know when this is all we all got to 0:56:57.719 --> 0:57:00.360 get together and hang out like like you real human beings. 0:57:00.520 --> 0:57:03.560 You know by any time that it's always a pleasure 0:57:03.800 --> 0:57:07.600 to uh spend time with you. And obviously I see 0:57:07.680 --> 0:57:10.360 Dave all the time, but you know, it's good to 0:57:10.400 --> 0:57:12.520 talk to the both of you. Enjoyed it. Be sure 0:57:12.560 --> 0:57:15.280 to catch live editions of The Ben Meller Show weekdays 0:57:15.280 --> 0:57:17.640 at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific.