1 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: Beat. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. 2 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: You're listening to Software Radio Special Operations, military news and 3 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: straight talk with the guys in the community. Hello and everyone, 4 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Software Radio, Software Bradio on Time on Target. 5 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: I'm you host this afternoon, Steve belsh Ferry. We have 6 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: a very special guest with us today, Michelle Black. And 7 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: many of you may have already heard about her book 8 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: that just came out. It's called Sacrifice, and we did 9 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: a book review on that on the on the website, 10 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: and uh, Michelle's graciously agreed to come on the podcast. 11 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,839 Speaker 1: Well this she's gonna talk to us about her her book. 12 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: She's going to talk to us obviously about her husband, Brian, 13 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: who was killed in action in Niger back in two 14 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,279 Speaker 1: thousand and seventeen, and we're going to talk all about 15 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: that and and you know, she'll fill us in on 16 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: everything that's going on with her in the book. And 17 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: you know, I think, uh, well, before we go any further, 18 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: I want to welcome Michelle to the podcast. Michelle, thanks 19 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: for taking the time with us this afternoon. We really 20 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: appreciate it absolutely. Thank you for having me on. Steve. 21 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: I'm so glad to be here. Well, thank you. And 22 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: you know about your book, I know, it's it's a 23 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: kind of a memoir of not only your life as 24 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: you go into the book about you know, your your 25 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: life with your husband, you know, as you guys met 26 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: all the way through everything that happened. But I think, 27 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: you know, when after I read this, you know, I 28 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: think this is very important, not only from the historical 29 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: fact and what your family and the other families of 30 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: the SF team went through, but this is mainly to me, 31 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: it's about the sacrifice of families and it shows how 32 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: deep our families are impacted, not only just when somebody 33 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: gets hurt or killed in action, but what you've you know, 34 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: go through. And it's easy for the s F guys, 35 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: you know, because we go out and you know, we're 36 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: obsessed with the mission while we're gone, and you know, 37 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: we're focused on that. But the families back home, you 38 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: guys have to deal with the unknown, and you're always 39 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: thinking worst case scenario while the guys are gone. Yeah, 40 00:02:54,080 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: that's absolutely true. So it's that's that's the challenge, the unknown. 41 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: Why isn't he calling? Why? You know, um? And you 42 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: always jump to the worst conclusion so it's it's a 43 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: whole different thing back home and raising the kids and 44 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: waiting for the phone calls, and as you know in 45 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 1: s F, it'll be you know, it could be a 46 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: day or two until I hear from Brian. It might 47 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: be a month. Um, he had a habit of buying 48 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: cheap phones and hoping you know, he'd get away with 49 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: that on deployment, so you know you'd call me on 50 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: other guy's phones occasionally. Yeah, And you know it's tough 51 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: for the families. I mean, even on a training deployment, 52 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: well the guys are gone, you still have to deal 53 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: with everything that's going on back home and the kid. 54 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: You have kids of your own, and we'll get into 55 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: all that, but you know, raising the kids, taking care 56 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: of all the household, there's things that came up, and 57 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: you know, wives have to be as strong, if not stronger, 58 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: in a lot of aspects than the husbands. That's absolutely true. 59 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: You know, I know I go in on the book. 60 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: You know, I talked about my son Ezekiel, and so 61 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: there were those issues where he has autism and I'm 62 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: trying to deal with him getting you know, kicked out 63 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: of this sporting event or him you know, getting kicked 64 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: out of class for the day or whatever else, and 65 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: then having you know, having to learn UM what an 66 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: i e P Is, which is an individualized education plan 67 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,239 Speaker 1: and go up against the entire administration out of school 68 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: and fight for him while I'm trying to raise my toddler. 69 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: And it just it was constant and there was no 70 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 1: UM downtime for me when Brian was gone at all, 71 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: and then taking care of the house and everything else. Yeah. 72 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: In fact, we were talking offline and we were comparing 73 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: notes about autistic kids, as my son is mildly autistic 74 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: as well. And it is when, especially when you first 75 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: start that journey, you know, you're going through so much 76 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: unknown You're trying to figure out, you know, how do 77 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: I how do I open that door just a cracked 78 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: where I get in where I'm seeing things from him. 79 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: And it was funny because then now years later, my 80 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: son has gone through so much therapy and he's able to, 81 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: you know, talk to us more, and he was like, 82 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: you know, you see things as as like a motion 83 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: picture where everything goes, you know, in a sequence, and 84 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: he goes I see things as a series of snapshots 85 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: and everything stops. So I have to stop and look 86 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: at that snapshot of things, and it's it's amazing what 87 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,119 Speaker 1: those kids go through. But I know that from reading 88 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: your book, your son did very, very well once he 89 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: got into the therapy. He did. Yeah, And it seems 90 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: like even it's been amazing because since losing Brian, Ezekiel 91 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: almost stepped up into Brian's place and tried to become 92 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: almost ahead of the household. So you know, there's one 93 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: one instance where I talk about, We're at the airport 94 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 1: getting picking Brian's body up from r d U, and 95 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: Ezekiel looks over, grabs my hand and looks up at 96 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 1: me and just kind of nods his head and gives 97 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: a reassuring stare, and then he takes the first step 98 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: forward and essentially leads me and the other two or 99 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: me and my other son forward, um towards the tarmac. 100 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: And uh, since then, I feel like that's what he does. 101 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 1: He's just and he's grown and become even more um 102 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: almost higher functioning. People now wouldn't guess he's autistic. He's 103 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,239 Speaker 1: getting straight a's in high school. He's on the swim team, 104 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 1: on the water polo team, he's got plans for college, 105 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: and he wants to go into a sup Of course, no, 106 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: we get you know, you're talking to a bunch of 107 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 1: s F guys here in soft repisode. We can't argue 108 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: with that choice. But that's uh, that's awesome. And now 109 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: how old is he? Now? He's got be what about sixteen? 110 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: He's fourteen, he'll be fifteen this summer. Yeah. Yeah, but 111 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: so you know, let's jump backwards a bit. Tell us 112 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: a little bit about how you and your husband mad 113 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: I thought that was a really intriguing part of the book. 114 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: And you know, your husband was, you know, he was 115 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 1: kind of almost like a renaissance man. He was into 116 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: a lot of different things, and he was very successful 117 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: at everything he did. Yeah, he really was. It's funny because, um, 118 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: I had grown up, you know, doing a lot of skiing. 119 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: I was obsessed with snowboarding. So after I graduated college, 120 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: I went up and thought, I'm gonna instruct snowboarding and 121 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: just have some fun blow off steam and in walks. 122 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: This really dorky guy, you know, I mean, he clearly 123 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: was a wrestler. Looked like he had to have two 124 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: black eyes, big you know, thick neck, and he's wearing 125 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: like a ski sweater, and type jeans, and this is 126 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: a snowboarder crowd. We've all got on our saggy pants 127 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: and you know, our for line jackets. We were all 128 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: super cool and he was not cool. And so I thought, 129 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:07,559 Speaker 1: you know, I got to get to know this guy. 130 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: So he was playing online poker at the time, so 131 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: complete misfit. But what was funny is would he'd be 132 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: playing poker. He ended up moving in with some friends 133 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: of ours, and I would go over there and he'd 134 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: have his computer screen open and he'd he'd have open, 135 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: you know, four UM poker tables going online, and then 136 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: he'd have three or four UM chess tables open and 137 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: going speed chess, and he'd go click click click click, click, 138 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: click click click, and he'd walk in And I remember 139 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: one time one of his roommates go, I walked in 140 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: there to ask him what he was doing, and all 141 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: he responded was I'm winning and that's it. So yeah, 142 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: we started. UM, I just started to get to know 143 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: him as a friend. He was dating a coworker of mine, 144 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: and um then we started doing a lot of backpacking trips, 145 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: hiking trips up through the Eastern High Sierra along the 146 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: Pacific Crest trail and then one day he just decided 147 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: I was going to be his girlfriend and wouldn't take 148 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: no for an answer because and it kind of went 149 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: from there. So yeah, well that sounds like how I 150 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: met my wife. She came down to visit her parents 151 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: in North Carolina. Her father was in the trucking industry 152 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 1: and they moved him to Fayetteville, and she just came 153 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: down to visit them for a long weekend and then 154 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: I kind of kidnapped her and said that you're going 155 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: back home to New York. So, you know, thirty years later, 156 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: here we are still so but you know, you know, 157 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: I just like if she could put up with me, 158 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: then she was a keeper. So but anyway, UM, so 159 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: you and Brian met and you started dating, and then 160 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: you guys got married and you lived in California for 161 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: a while before he joined the military. We did. Yeah, 162 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: we were married for probably, um, I want to say, 163 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: three years before he decided to join UM And it 164 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: was around two thousand and eight, when you know, they're 165 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: just the economic crisis hit and it was you know, 166 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: he'd been playing online poker for a living. So the 167 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: internet restrictions tightened up under Obama and so all of 168 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: a sudden he had pulled all his money out and 169 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: it wasn't safe to keep it online in the banks 170 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 1: that he needed to in order to keep playing UM 171 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: and then to UM. He'd had a business degree and 172 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: he was trying to apply everywhere, but because he's been 173 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: playing poker instead of working with his degree, he had 174 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 1: no experience. And so he finally went, listen, UM, I've 175 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: always wanted to be, you know, a n AB seal 176 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: or a green beret. So what do you say? I 177 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: joined the military. Then we get all this coverage and 178 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: I can have a shot at this, And I went, 179 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 1: why not? You know, UM, I think you know, that's 180 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: what makes you happy, go for it. So it was 181 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 1: I think two thousand nine when he joined. And then 182 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: you guys, UM, I think he in the book you mentioned, 183 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 1: was it for Carson that you were stationed at first 184 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: before he tried out for s F A S. Yeah, 185 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: so he UM. When he first went in, he went 186 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: in as a metic and we got stationed out of 187 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: cash and for Carson, which you know, for Carson, h 188 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: was amazing. We did a lot of skiing and hiking 189 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: and whatever. But you know, as far as his job went, 190 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: I was so busy with Ezy Gil and and all 191 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: of the optism and just the craziness, and he was 192 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: starting to get bored at work. So he actually had 193 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 1: more free time than I did. I think during that 194 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: time he'd come home and I'd be busy off it, 195 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 1: you know, therapy sessions and what not with the kids. 196 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: So he decided to go to s f a S. 197 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: And that kind of fast tracked us. Within a year 198 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 1: and a half he went to s f a S. Yeah, 199 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: in fact, I worked out there. It's one of the 200 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: cadreing members. So went into your book when you talked 201 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: about he came home and he had lost quite a 202 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: bit of weight in a very short amount of time. 203 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: I was like, well, things haven't changed the s f 204 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: A S since I was there. So that's that is 205 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: a smoker, of of course. And I tell people, you know, 206 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 1: here at software we get emails all the time from 207 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: young guys that are going through and they asked for 208 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: for tips and you know, advice, and I just tell him, 209 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: be in the best shape you've ever dreamed of in 210 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: your life, and you're still gonna get smoked. You're gonna 211 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: lose a lot of weight. And by the time you finish, 212 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: you're gonna feel like you've been through the wringer. And 213 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: that's that's what that it's all about. But obviously he 214 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: did real well in it. He was selected, he went 215 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: to school, and then you guys moved to wonderful time 216 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: in Fayetteville. Yes, yes, we did. Yeah. It's like, uh, 217 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: you know, of all the places in North Carolina, people 218 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: ask me all the time, what's favable, Like Faivl is 219 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 1: not what I would consider North Carolina. It's just kind 220 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: of there. It's a military basis, not where I would 221 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: choose to live. The rest of the state was gorgeous. 222 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: I love the mountains, I love the ocean, but Faville 223 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: not so much. Yeah, same here. Um, yeah, we loved 224 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,359 Speaker 1: going up to Asheville or you know, out to Rightsville. 225 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: But what part of town did you guys live in? 226 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: We actually lived um up off of Ramsey, so we're 227 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: in kind of a rougher area the Walmart, but they'd 228 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: start we didn't know. We wanted to buy a house 229 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: and we found this gorgeous house in this old neighborhood 230 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: and you know, honestly, getting into that old neighborhood are 231 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: are neighbors were amazing, but you know, you step two 232 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: streets over and you don't go out at night, you know, 233 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: so live and learn, you know, next time Southern Pines. 234 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, I loved way out for Rayford Road. 235 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: At that time. It was when you get out past 236 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: certain points like Copdale, it was wide open. Now I've 237 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: I haven't been back there in a couple of years 238 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: that I heard that's all built up, So yeah it is. 239 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: It's nice out there. Yeah, yeah, it's much nicer than 240 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, it was definitely would have been a 241 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: step up for us. So anyway, m Bryan gets through 242 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: SF you know, he gets the third group talk to 243 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: us about that time and then lead us into you know, 244 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: the events of what what happened. Yeah, well you know, 245 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: honestly the time period when he um, when we got 246 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: to Fayette Lle and he was going through the key course, 247 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: that was chaotic UM And because like I said, I 248 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: was busy with Easy Kill and all the all the 249 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: chaos and trying to get him the therapy and into 250 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: regular classrooms and and Brian was just gone, you know, 251 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: as it goes with the que course. UM. But then 252 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: he graduated in two thousand fifteen and Um last minute 253 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: joined a B team over in Afghanistan and was there 254 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: for a few months, came back and was home for 255 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: maybe a couple of weeks and went to Ranger school. 256 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: So then he was gone for another what three months, 257 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: and then graduated that in April of two thousand sixteen, 258 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: and then instantly that he got home April one, which 259 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: was my birthday. And then I think May fifteen, he 260 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: was already on Team three two one two and they 261 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: went on their first deployment to Niger. So he was 262 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: gone within a month. Um yeah, and they came back 263 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: around October I believe that year. So yeah, it was 264 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: just fast, you know, really fast. But he loved it. 265 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: He loved being a Niger. He had um learned. He 266 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: had taught himself to speak French and helps so he 267 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: could speak with the local Nigerians. And so by the 268 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: time he came home, he was really excited. You know, 269 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: I gotta go speak with all the local peoples, because 270 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: the village people. It was fun. Um. Granted, he was 271 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: somewhat I think he was hoping when he got into 272 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: Special Forces he would have more independence and less paperwork 273 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: and bureaucracy. And when he saw that it was still 274 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: a lot of paperwork and all the bureaucracy of everything 275 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: he was he was getting pretty frustrated. Um, and he 276 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: was like, you know, I might not do this for 277 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: as long as I as I thought I would. So 278 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: he loved the medicine part of it, and he loved 279 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: the independence, but the bureaucratry didn't give him as much 280 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: independence as he wanted. Yeah, that's the military. I mean, 281 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: if they can figure out a way to you know, 282 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: tie you down with paper, the needless paper too. And 283 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: after you know, I started off as an enlisted guy 284 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: that after I became an officer, I never did paperwork. 285 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: I should throw it all away. They send me big 286 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: stacks that throw it all away. I was like, I 287 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: need to do this when I was in the list 288 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: of guy, I refused to do it because it was stupid. 289 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: And that's the army takes. We always used to say, 290 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: they take all the fun out of everything. So um, 291 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: but that's that's typical. But yeah, you know, we're reading 292 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: the book. I got that sense that your husband loved 293 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,479 Speaker 1: that part of SF where you know you're interacting with 294 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: the people. You you know, he's taught himself a little 295 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 1: bit of the language. And what a lot of people 296 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 1: don't realize is in Africa they speak so many different languages. 297 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: It's it's really really difficult. You can't say, oh, he's 298 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: fluent and everything they speak there, because I don't think 299 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: anybody is, even people who lived there round. Yeah. And 300 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: but you know, even just picking one of the languages 301 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: and working on it, that that buy so much favor 302 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: with the low Wells that it was amazing what happened 303 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: when he learned. How so he ended up um becoming 304 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: friends with the like one of their little local right 305 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: near their base. Because the first time they were where 306 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 1: were they, I think they were Maraudi. So there was 307 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: a village there, and he would go into Maraudi and 308 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: became friends with village a village chief. And so then 309 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: the village chief tried to get him to marry his 310 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: daughter and bring her home, and he said, well, I'm 311 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: already married. In America, we don't marry more than one woman, 312 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: so you know, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to decline. 313 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 1: And by the end his village, the village chief liked him, 314 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: so he decided to give him a gift, a wedding gift, 315 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 1: and it was a traditional wedding gift for the Nigerian 316 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 1: people and it was knives. I guess they present to 317 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: the couple. They each have a knife, so uh, I 318 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: guess it means if one of us breaks a wedding vow, 319 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: we can kill the other. So we so I have 320 00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: the two traditional marriage knives. That's amazing. I didn't know 321 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: that that's learned something new every day. So yeah, but 322 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: I know this is a difficult part. But take us 323 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: to U that last deployment of his. Yeah, you know, 324 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: it was interesting. The plan was he had, Like I said, 325 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: he'd grown tired of doing all the paperwork and he 326 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: started to think, well, he'd always wanted to run his 327 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 1: own business. He'd always wanted to be involved in stocks. 328 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: He had, so after telling me kind of his complaints 329 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: about it that winter after he got home from his 330 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: first deployment, I said, well, if you could do anything 331 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: in the world, what would it be. Oh, I would 332 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: love to build a stop trading program, you know, develop 333 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 1: one where you know it can um predict the movement 334 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: of stocks with some degree of predictability. So I said, well, 335 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: why don't you just do it? So oddly enough over 336 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: the next you know, however, many months he was home, 337 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: he built a stock trading algorith him and UM he 338 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: was in the initial phases, the beta testing, and UM 339 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: he took his computer with him, and UH he was 340 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: deciding that spring whether he should just get out then 341 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: or sign on for another stent and use that money 342 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: from the bonus to kind of launch his program. So 343 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: we decided, okay, let's take let's sign on, take that 344 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: money and use it to launch the program, and then 345 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: you would only have you know this this deployment UM 346 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: in the fall, and one more following UM. But by 347 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: the time we reached fall, he didn't say anything, but 348 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: I think he was feeling the same way I would. 349 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: I was. There was just a lot of like hesitation. 350 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: It's just something felt off. And I've never really been 351 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,360 Speaker 1: scared when he deployed, you know, nothing had ever concerned 352 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: maybehen he left done training or deployments, I've never felt 353 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: any unease. UM, but something just felt wrong this time, 354 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 1: and I didn't want to let him go. UM. And 355 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: you know, it was the first time where we both 356 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: were like hesitating at the airport and like okay, okay, 357 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: well we'll see you later. You know, this very like uncomfortable, 358 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: like something that's not right, and we're doing like second 359 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: and third hugs, and I'm almost crying and I'm like, 360 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,959 Speaker 1: I just don't feel right this time. And he left 361 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: um and and I didn't put this in the book, 362 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: but a few weeks later, um Isaac, our youngest son, 363 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 1: looks up at me. He comes in the house after 364 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: school and he goes, Death's not coming home, is he? 365 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: And I freaked out because I've been feeling that way, 366 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: um and so UM. Honestly, since he had left, I 367 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: kept daily I would look out the window and see 368 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: if there were any government cars pulling up, anyone in 369 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 1: uniforms around UM. And when he said that, it really 370 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: shook me. And I said, oh, no, Dad's fine. Dad's 371 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: totally fine. We just need to pray. So we started 372 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: praying every night. UM. And then about a day or 373 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: two before I got the knock, I was walking through 374 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: my bedroom and I remember being stopped in one place 375 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: and I just felt like the spirit of God all 376 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: around me, like just this heavy thing, and it was 377 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: like peace. But then I felt like him saying, trust me, 378 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: you're gonna be okay, and that it happened one other 379 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: time in my life, and it was the day before 380 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: my dad died. So I panicked. UM, you know, yeah, 381 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: trust you you know uh so, um yeah, I was, 382 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: it was expecting it mm hm. And you know then, uh, 383 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: the events that transpired. You know, the team was given 384 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 1: a mission that honestly and reading the book again as well, 385 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: you know, they were given a mission with a two 386 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: hour window of intelligence, which they had a four hour drive, 387 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 1: so if they had left immediately upon getting it, they 388 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: still would have been late. And they kind of pushed 389 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: back on it. They were told to go continue with 390 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: the mission. Then the concept of the operation, which was 391 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: a big part of this later on, got changed twice, 392 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: which they had nothing to do with. We understand that. 393 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: You know, when they ended up in the village of 394 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: Tongo Tongo, the village chief kind of delayed them long 395 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: enough and it seemed like he was part of the 396 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: isis planned to ambush them when they left. Um, after 397 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: all this is going on now you know what transpired, 398 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,959 Speaker 1: The team got ambush. For the team members, including your husband, 399 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: were killed in action. Several were wounded, including their team leading. Um, 400 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: the army wasn't very forthcoming with details with you. And 401 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: please take our listeners through that a little bit well, 402 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: you know, the the third third group commander was one 403 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: of the first ones to stop by our house and 404 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: he essentially told us, you know, Ms Black. All we 405 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: really know at this point is that they were on 406 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: a routine patrol. Beyond that, we don't know any details, 407 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 1: and um, you know, as they come, we'll let you know. 408 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: And that was, you know, in October, right after it happened. Um, 409 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 1: and then pretty much from then on out, all I 410 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: got was whatever came through the news. So we were 411 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 1: waiting on the investigation, and you know, what was coming 412 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,199 Speaker 1: through the news didn't make any sense. It was you know, 413 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: this has been leaked from an infisihal An official involved 414 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: in the investigation saying that you know, Captain Perezini and 415 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,199 Speaker 1: the team, they acted like a team of cowboys and 416 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: went rogue, going on a killer capture mission after a 417 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: you know, high value target. And to me, I mean, 418 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: take into account everything I just said about my husband. 419 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: He wasn't going to go rogue after all, high value target, 420 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: risking his life and his career. Um, it's just none 421 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 1: of it fit. My husband was a thinking man. He 422 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: was a master of chess, spook several languages. He was 423 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: very black and white, and one thing from his years 424 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: of playing poker and chess, he thought several moves ahead. 425 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,959 Speaker 1: He always knew the odds of everything, and you know, 426 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: he just there's there's no way. And anyone who's in 427 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: the soft community knows you don't go against orders high 428 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: things from your you know, higher level of right. Yeah, 429 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: So as I'm hearing all of this, I'm just going this, 430 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: No of this fits. But what I did hold out, Um, 431 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: I shouldn't even say hope. I mean I expected the 432 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: military to come in when we finally got our brief 433 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: and say, yeah, these are just rumors, these are just 434 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: you know, news reports. Ignore them, Um, this is what happened, 435 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: and get a very detailed timeline, you know, of the events, 436 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: and a very detailed explanation of the chain of command 437 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:31,360 Speaker 1: and how those command decisions were made, who made them, why, 438 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: you know, and even if there had been a mistake, 439 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,239 Speaker 1: a major blunder. I didn't care about punishments. I just 440 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: wanted the truth. I didn't feel like anybody needed to 441 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: be punished because these things happen. Mistakes happen. That's not 442 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: a big deal, you know, But that's how you learn. 443 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: It's when you don't admit to the mistakes and really 444 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: assess those and learn from them. That it becomes a 445 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,640 Speaker 1: problem because then you're going to continue leading men into 446 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: battle and costing more lives. And that that was the 447 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: basically the crux of the book, because the team realized 448 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: the mission was messed up from from the beginning, and 449 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: they frequently called back. I think it was three times. 450 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: It might have been to only two, but at least 451 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: two to three times they asked to go back because 452 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: they knew it was messed up. And then they were 453 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: supposed to be the um the basic quick reaction for 454 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: us to a hell born unit, and then that got canceled, 455 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: and then they gave it to them that they had 456 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,160 Speaker 1: no metavac on station, they had no air support, they 457 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: had no eyes in the air, no drone support. It 458 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: was just a totally watched mission. And the captain in 459 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: in your book, he asked several times for them to 460 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: reconsider this, and then they ordered him to go forward anyway. 461 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: And then they basically as soon as everything went to 462 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: hell in a handbasket outside of that village, they threw 463 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 1: him right under the bus. They did of the team, 464 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: and there were some very specific things they like either 465 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 1: misled or you know, left out when they were briefing us, 466 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: or they just outright lied. So one of the biggest 467 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: lies was, you know, in our brief we were told, 468 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: you know, when they were pushed ahead to the Molly border, 469 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: a second threat assessment was done before they were sent 470 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: to the Molly border without team arlt UM, and it 471 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: showed you know that they were they were safe going 472 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: ahead alone in an eight truck convoy you know, uh 473 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: the next morning. So we were told that. We found 474 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: out later there was never another another second a threat 475 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: a threat assessment done. So that's kind of a big deal, 476 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: um not to have the property the trucks. To What 477 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: people don't realize is the team wasn't over there in Humbyes. 478 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: Those those Toyota high locks structs, and I think every 479 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: SF guy who's ever deployed anywhere in the world, it's 480 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: very familiar with Toyota high likexed structure because they they're everywhere, 481 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: but they're very underpowered. They're not very good across country. 482 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: It's not like having a humpy. Those things get and 483 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: you you talked about it in the book that they 484 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: get stuck quite often in the desert Yeah, they were 485 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: having to be really careful not to get stuck on 486 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 1: their way up because if they did, they would have 487 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: to have the Nigerian counterparts pull them out and throughout 488 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: the middle of the out of nowhere Africa. So if 489 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: they need help and the Nigerians can't pull them out, 490 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: there's not much they can do. Um, and they're in 491 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: the middle of enemy territory, you know, at at night. 492 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: So that was one of the big things, you know, 493 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: the trucks, the threat assessment. But then there were there 494 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,959 Speaker 1: were things that just were inaccurate when they briefed us, 495 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: you know, like Captain Perezini, you know, when they were 496 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: in the kill zone. Um, he decided to stop the trucks. 497 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: And this, you know, this was a huge issue on 498 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: the media among the families. You know, he stopped in 499 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: the kill zone. Why would you stop in the kill zone? 500 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: They showed that, and they had a like a slide show. Yeah, 501 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: and because I remember watching the slide show and and 502 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: they showed the first trucks stopped, and the first thing 503 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: that comes to mind, as any military guy, why would 504 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: they stop in the kill zone. Well, then it turns 505 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: out in your book, did you found out that they 506 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: didn't actually stop in the kill zone and and please explain. Yeah, 507 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: and you know it because I interviewed each guy separately, 508 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: So I the first guy, it's like I stopped him 509 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: three times and I'm like, this really happened. And then 510 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: the rest of the guys later told me the same 511 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: story every time they came to my house. What happened 512 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: was because they were in a by with and through mission. 513 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: As they left the village, the Nigerian trucks were in 514 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: the league, and so then Yugerian trucks. As the fire 515 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: started to break out, they panicked and so they put 516 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: the trucks in reverse and ran into the American trucks. 517 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: One crash right into the front and then the other 518 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: one seeing it crashed. Uh, seeing them crash, tried to 519 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: whip around them and in the process clipped the same 520 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: American truck and boxed them in because there was a 521 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: tree on the other side of the American truck, So 522 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: the lead American vehicle was completely boxed in, which brought 523 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: the entire convoy to a halt in the kill zone, 524 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: which really worked out well for the the enemy. Yeah, 525 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: so yeah, it was a mess, but you know, and 526 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: that That's the thing that it seemed like everyone they 527 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: talked to they discounted the people that were on the ground. 528 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: Because it's clear in your book you talked to all 529 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: the surviving members of the team, you interviewed them. Was 530 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: it separately? You you talked to each one of them? 531 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: I did, because what I didn't want to have happening 532 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: is I get them all in the room and they're 533 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: talking to me, and then they're correcting each other. You know, 534 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: I thought, I want to see if they all have 535 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: the exact same story when they're separate, and if so, 536 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: then why would their accounts be discounted by Africa? Because 537 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: the general officers who push that mission through, we're basically 538 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: covering their own asks. Excuse my language, but yeah, that 539 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: was the only conclusion I could come to, is you know, 540 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: somebody's being protected, and so what what possessed you? Was 541 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: it just to get to the truth? To have the 542 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: team over to your house and then you kind of 543 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: broached the subject with them that you'd like to do 544 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: this interview with them. Um, was it just to get 545 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: to the truth? I think what started, as you know, 546 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,479 Speaker 1: I think it was a build up. So you know, Okay, 547 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: my husband died. Okay, a video was released. There reaches 548 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: a level of like injustice when your own government allows 549 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: you to go through all this, and that's fine, you 550 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: know that that's what that's what this job is all about. 551 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: You know, that's part of service and sacrifice. But then 552 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: they lied to me. And then my last hope was, Okay, 553 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: they're gonna go um on TV at the media brief 554 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: and the africam commander General Waldhauser is going to be 555 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: finally be honest, you know, and he started out with 556 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: you know, I accept full responsibility for actions on the ground, 557 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: was one of the first things that happened that came 558 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: out of his mouth. Um But you know, what you 559 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: say and what you do are two different things, so 560 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: um M that I think it was a mix of 561 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: what they were willing to do to the families to 562 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: protect others higher up the chain, and what they were 563 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: willing to do to the men on the ground who 564 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: had I mean, honestly, they've been through help, they had 565 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: watched their friends die, they had been ambushed um by 566 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: these Isis militants, barely survived, and then they come home 567 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: and they're ambushed by the press, by the families, by 568 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: their own, um higher ups who should be protecting them 569 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: and get thrown under the bus. And I think for 570 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 1: me the level of injustice for them and for us. Uh. 571 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:54,280 Speaker 1: That day when General Waldhauser spoke, he said, all teams 572 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: on the continent of Africa are performing optimally, but this 573 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 1: team is not indicative of what special operators do. And 574 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: so yeah, in one fell swoop, he managed to just 575 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: completely disrespect the sacrifice and really the careers everything UM 576 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: and dishonor my husband and every man who fought and 577 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: died along with him, and the families and UM. In 578 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 1: that moment, I just I was done. So that day 579 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: I decided, Uh, you know, they write books about other operations, 580 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,439 Speaker 1: and there's always some journalists who does it, who says 581 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: we can't do it, who says I can't do it. 582 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: So I'm done. I'm gonna find the truth and I'm 583 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: going to write the book. And if the book is 584 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 1: they were protecting someone and they lied to us, well, 585 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 1: then perfect more more stuff to put in the book. 586 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: Did you have any journalistic experience prior to this. No, 587 00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: I've never even written. I just thought why not. I'll 588 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: tell you. After reading the book, it seemed like you've 589 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 1: been an accomplished author. Because I was looking elsewhere, I 590 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: was like, this can't be the first book that she's written. 591 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: It was quite well done. And yeah, it was very 592 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 1: well done in the research was impeccable on it. And 593 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 1: the fact that you were able to talk to the 594 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 1: different team members. How there. I don't know if you've 595 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: kept in touch with them, but they have they gotten 596 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: bitter over the way they were treated by all this. No, 597 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 1: surprisingly now they're all I mean I had one one 598 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 1: of the men were he was younger and he lost 599 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: his best friend and he got out because he just 600 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: he couldn't he couldn't take it. It was it was 601 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: too I think for him it was really hard. But 602 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:52,240 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say that he still holds bitter feelings, you know. Um, 603 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: I'd say overall, everybody's doing really well. Yeah, that's good. 604 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,280 Speaker 1: And you know, I know you live close to your 605 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: your um husband's family and you still have close contact 606 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:08,799 Speaker 1: with them. How are they handling the book, and you know, 607 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: I'm sure they've both read it. Um, how are your 608 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 1: in laws handling all this? Are you getting a lot 609 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: of exposure now with the media again? Um? Well, I 610 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: have a feeling it's going to pick up soon with 611 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: the Army start. It just came out and with you guys, 612 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: and yeah, so I have a feeling, you know, over 613 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,319 Speaker 1: the next few weeks it'll really start to I don't 614 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 1: think anyone took me seriously before because I've never published anything, 615 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, that's nice, she's writing a little book, 616 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: and that's fine, you know. Um, as I said, my 617 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: main goal was just to set the record straight for 618 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 1: the men and for the families, and so that was 619 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: those were really my target audiences and they're the ones 620 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 1: that I care most about. What's their opinion. And I've 621 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 1: gotten really at feedback and I'm very happy with that. 622 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: They they are all very um happy that I wrote 623 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: the book, and I've yeah, I'm glad I did it. 624 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: That's awesome. And now the actual writing process of putting 625 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,760 Speaker 1: it together was that, you know, having never done it before, 626 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 1: was it was it difficult to try to piece everything together. Um, yeah, 627 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 1: the writing process was much more challenging than I expected. 628 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: I've always been a huge reader, so you know, I've 629 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: you know, I've always got a book in my hand, 630 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,319 Speaker 1: even as a kid, you know, as a kid in 631 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 1: the car with the spotlight on about just reading. But 632 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: I was a super big dork. But so I thought, oh, someday, 633 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: maybe I'll write a book. Who knows, you know, like, 634 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: no big deal, I'll just drop that thing down and 635 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 1: be done, and it'll be, you know, the book of 636 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 1: my life. Um, It's not that not that simple. It 637 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: was really really challenging. Um. The pieces I loved writing, obviously, 638 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: where the first sections where it talks about you know, me, 639 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,800 Speaker 1: my family and my husband and and just our lives together. 640 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: That was probably the easiest part for me. It was 641 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: easy and difficult because you know, I'm crying through half 642 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 1: of it and then I'm angry through another half. Um, 643 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: and then yeah, yeah. The harder things were just Probably 644 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: the most difficult thing for me, because I've never been 645 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:32,240 Speaker 1: in battle by far, was figuring out how to write 646 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 1: the on the ground section, you know, and those part 647 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,560 Speaker 1: guys me like does you know, what would you say? 648 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: Is this weapon? And how would it sound? And they 649 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 1: would send me video clips and I'm like, okay, you know, 650 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 1: so do The research was really challenging because I mean, 651 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:53,879 Speaker 1: you know, I've never heard of disha. I don't think 652 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 1: most of us have unless we've been over there fighting 653 00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: you know, so things like that. Fortunately, growing up the 654 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 1: desert or near the desert, I knew, Okay, this is 655 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: what motorcycles and guns out in the desert sound and 656 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,359 Speaker 1: feel like, and this is what it feels like out 657 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: there at night. But um, that's still not nizer, you know. 658 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 1: So trying to figure all that out, doing the research 659 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,239 Speaker 1: and try and put myself in a battle scenario. As 660 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 1: anyone from so Calm or Third Group reached out to 661 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:28,799 Speaker 1: you since the book just was recently published, Um no, okay, 662 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 1: but I don't think, you know, I don't think. I guess, 663 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,880 Speaker 1: I don't know what to think. I'm hoping that, you know, 664 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,720 Speaker 1: especially Third Group, because it was so close and personal. 665 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 1: I think in general they'll be very receptive, except for 666 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:51,840 Speaker 1: the individuals who specifically, um did things that were wrong 667 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 1: and and and that's the thing. I don't hold any 668 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 1: animosity towards anybody, you know. And I love the Special 669 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 1: Forces community. I love the you know, everything behind the 670 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 1: military and what it does and why they do it. 671 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,920 Speaker 1: And I would encourage even my sons to go and hey, yeah, 672 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 1: become a Green Beret, joined Third Group. I think this 673 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: is great. I'm all about it. What I don't like 674 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:21,400 Speaker 1: is injustice that you know, these men were were forced 675 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,400 Speaker 1: to face over somebody's career. I mean, my husband lost 676 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,719 Speaker 1: his life, my children lost their dad. Um, my in 677 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 1: laws lost their youngest son. That's horrible. And they decided, Hey, 678 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,479 Speaker 1: a career, you know, that is what matters here. Let's 679 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,760 Speaker 1: make sure to preserve this guy's career. And I'm thinking 680 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:43,399 Speaker 1: he's going to put somebody else in this same position, right, 681 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: And that's what you know. Um Um. At the time, 682 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 1: they gave general or officer letters of reprimand to the 683 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,319 Speaker 1: team leader. Um, but none of the higher ranking officers. 684 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,960 Speaker 1: They kind of whitewashed them. In general. Maddis kind of 685 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 1: put a stop to that. But you know, um, it's 686 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 1: just when I think of that team later, I mean 687 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 1: to all the members of the team, but I think 688 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: of the team leader, especially because he was the one 689 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: whose name was really dragged through the mud as far 690 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: as I was concerned after reading your book, and I just, uh, 691 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,759 Speaker 1: I felt really bad for him because not only did 692 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,759 Speaker 1: he lose a good chunk of his team, his actions 693 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:36,480 Speaker 1: were dissected, I thought unfairly to what transpired. He was 694 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,680 Speaker 1: wounded himself pretty seriously. Yeah, I just think the army 695 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:44,320 Speaker 1: did him a vastest service. He should have been decorated 696 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,400 Speaker 1: for it, as far as I'm concerned. No, I agree 697 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 1: with you, and I know him while he's one of 698 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,359 Speaker 1: the most um if my husband had to say such 699 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,960 Speaker 1: high praises about him, which my husband didn't say. He 700 00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:03,520 Speaker 1: never praised anybody. But I remember specifically, you know, before 701 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,960 Speaker 1: that deployment, he was like, this guy's incredible, incredibly intelligent, 702 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,759 Speaker 1: incredibly capable. I am glad he's going to lead us, 703 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 1: and my husband never really he would usually end up 704 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,920 Speaker 1: stepping into the leadership position, you know, on in different 705 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,799 Speaker 1: groups because he was a natural leader and he was 706 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:25,600 Speaker 1: so intelligent. But um, he you know, he clearly trusted Mike, 707 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,239 Speaker 1: and as I've gotten to know Mike, I I can 708 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 1: understand why he is incredibly capable and he did exactly 709 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,880 Speaker 1: what he should have on the ground. And unfortunately, you know, 710 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,240 Speaker 1: that is not how it was painted. It was painted 711 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 1: that everything he did, he was made to look like 712 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:45,239 Speaker 1: a fumbling idiot. But I doubt most men in that 713 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 1: position would have performed as well as he did. Now 714 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:50,839 Speaker 1: is he still in SF? I know in the book 715 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,720 Speaker 1: you mentioned later on he was an instructor at the school. 716 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,799 Speaker 1: But is he still in Yes, Yes, that's good. I'm 717 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,560 Speaker 1: glad to hear that. You know, they should have decorated 718 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 1: a lot of the guys on that team for what transpired. 719 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:10,520 Speaker 1: And you know, um, but how do you highly decorate 720 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: a team that you're trying to blame, highly decorated team 721 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,759 Speaker 1: that's trying to be painted as fools as as cowboys 722 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,600 Speaker 1: and gone road. But yeah, as soon as that storyline 723 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 1: came out, I I know, speaking for a lot of 724 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:32,520 Speaker 1: former SF guys, we immediately discounted that that that stuff 725 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 1: doesn't happen. It only happens in the movies, you know. 726 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:40,920 Speaker 1: But if you could think of something that you know, 727 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:45,480 Speaker 1: for the average person, maybe not even a military family member, 728 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 1: military type person take away from this book, what do 729 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 1: you think of that would be? Um? You know, I 730 00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,759 Speaker 1: wrote something down because I thought it was important for 731 00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 1: those who you know, weren't in the military community to 732 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:08,920 Speaker 1: here let me find it. Um, well, yeah, just that 733 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 1: they would understand more clearly what freedom has cost those 734 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,719 Speaker 1: of us who you know, all of those you know, 735 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,759 Speaker 1: my husband and the families, um, who have paid the 736 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,879 Speaker 1: ultimate price. But more importantly, that we wouldn't change it, 737 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,000 Speaker 1: you know, because nothing worth having comes without a steep price. 738 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 1: And um, really, I hope that the readers walk away 739 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,920 Speaker 1: appreciating their freedoms more and hold more love for and 740 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,840 Speaker 1: pride in the men and women who serve our great nation. 741 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:44,400 Speaker 1: You know, they deserve more respect, absolutely, and the families 742 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,359 Speaker 1: do as well. I know you have two sons that 743 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,120 Speaker 1: are growing up without their dad. How are they doing? 744 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,360 Speaker 1: And you said, you're the ones getting ready to graduate 745 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,080 Speaker 1: high school? And how are the kids doing? They're doing 746 00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:02,600 Speaker 1: really well. Um, like I said, well, Isaac, first of all, 747 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,520 Speaker 1: he's Mr Social, so he has made a million friends. 748 00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:07,880 Speaker 1: We've always got a house full of teenage boys running 749 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,319 Speaker 1: around going crazy. Every neighbor shows up, and you know, 750 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,879 Speaker 1: and he's got himself a golden doodle who sleeps with 751 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:18,759 Speaker 1: him and follows him around like you know, like like 752 00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:24,279 Speaker 1: their brothers, and so yeah, it's pretty funny. He's a 753 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,560 Speaker 1: trip and he's doing really well. He's in seventh grade 754 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:31,680 Speaker 1: right now, so um yeah, and he's you know, I've 755 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 1: been taking the boys skiing at the local mountain and 756 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,160 Speaker 1: you know, they both love it and have picked it 757 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,680 Speaker 1: up and ski really well. So we've been going to 758 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,640 Speaker 1: the top of the mountain and um, trying to talk 759 00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,960 Speaker 1: him into snowboarding next year. But we'll see. So um yeah, 760 00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:51,360 Speaker 1: and then you was a military officer, he was. He 761 00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:56,839 Speaker 1: was a marine. Yes. Yeah. Now Ezekiel is he uh 762 00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,120 Speaker 1: is he a skier as well? He is? Yeah, so 763 00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,560 Speaker 1: he's skiing. He he agreed to let me teach him 764 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,600 Speaker 1: to snowboard next year. So I'm I'm very excited because, 765 00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,759 Speaker 1: like I said, I used to instruct, I used to compete, 766 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,040 Speaker 1: So I am all about the snowboarding. I'm like, get me, 767 00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:14,600 Speaker 1: you go through. You know, I want to take him 768 00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:16,759 Speaker 1: through the park. I want to, you know, do all that. 769 00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,319 Speaker 1: I mean, who knows, I might kill myself now I 770 00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,960 Speaker 1: haven't done in a few years, but you know, I 771 00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:23,880 Speaker 1: used to do all the big jumps and stuff. So 772 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:28,439 Speaker 1: I'm really excited about that. But he is fourteen, and 773 00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,719 Speaker 1: he is, you know, swimming on the swim team. Just 774 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:36,840 Speaker 1: lettered um this yesterday and then um, he's playing water 775 00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:41,040 Speaker 1: polo and streets at school. So he's just he's doing 776 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:45,040 Speaker 1: really well. But we can look for him to be 777 00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:49,719 Speaker 1: an SF guy somewhere down the road. Yeah, definitely, that's 778 00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,840 Speaker 1: all he wants. There. You go like I told you earlier. 779 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,080 Speaker 1: I can't think of a bit of way for a 780 00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,280 Speaker 1: kid to grow up. You get to see the world, 781 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,319 Speaker 1: you get to experience some things, maybe not all of 782 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,279 Speaker 1: them pleasant, but it shows you a lot of what's 783 00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,840 Speaker 1: going on in the world, and it makes you really appreciate, 784 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,680 Speaker 1: you know, the things that we do have. Yeah, that's 785 00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,680 Speaker 1: absolutely true. They're definitely some of the most independent and 786 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,320 Speaker 1: strong kids I know, and they care a lot for others. 787 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:23,040 Speaker 1: So it's good. Well, Michelle, thank you. I really appreciate 788 00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,600 Speaker 1: you taking the time with us this afternoon. We uh, 789 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,040 Speaker 1: we'd loved having you on and talking about it, and 790 00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:33,040 Speaker 1: we encourage all of our readers out there are listeners 791 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:37,919 Speaker 1: to the podcast to down you know, you can check 792 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:42,480 Speaker 1: out Michelle's book Sacrifice. You can download a copy of 793 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,640 Speaker 1: it or by hard hard copy of it. Where can 794 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,760 Speaker 1: they find an Amazon, I'm sure, Oh yeah, and pretty 795 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:53,600 Speaker 1: much anywhere bookstore books sell, you know, books are sold. 796 00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:58,120 Speaker 1: So yeah, Well, we appreciate you sending us an advanced 797 00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:02,440 Speaker 1: copy of that. It was it was very well written, 798 00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,080 Speaker 1: as I told you earlier, but at times it was 799 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:10,560 Speaker 1: also I could say it was maddening at times reading 800 00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:15,560 Speaker 1: pat your experiences and it was hard enough for what 801 00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,360 Speaker 1: you and the other families had to go through, not 802 00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:20,879 Speaker 1: to the least of which to being lied to by 803 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:25,319 Speaker 1: the chain of command. And again we encourage all of 804 00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,040 Speaker 1: our listeners to get out there and by the book 805 00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:33,359 Speaker 1: and definitely check it out. Well, thank you so much 806 00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:37,120 Speaker 1: for reading it and having me on. It was our 807 00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:41,320 Speaker 1: pleasure and hopefully, Um, are you gonna write another book eventually? 808 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,840 Speaker 1: Is this going to be? I would love to. It 809 00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:47,719 Speaker 1: turns out I really like to write. That's awesome, even 810 00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,400 Speaker 1: on the bad days. Yeah, well that's sometimes that's when 811 00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:55,600 Speaker 1: you get the most done. That's true. Well, thanks again 812 00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:59,399 Speaker 1: for taking the time with us. Um, we really appreciated 813 00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,640 Speaker 1: and yeah, well you're the door was always open for 814 00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,279 Speaker 1: you here, especially if you write another book. Will be 815 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,480 Speaker 1: glad to uh you know, review it and have you 816 00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:12,200 Speaker 1: back on for another podcast. Wonderful, Thank you so much. 817 00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:33,600 Speaker 1: Thanks again you've been listening to self red Lydia m