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Speaker 1: We want to make sure people are at the root

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Speaker 1: of all of this.

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Speaker 2: There are No Girls on the Internet. As a production

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Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this

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Speaker 2: is there are No Girls on the Internet. Happy New Year.

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Speaker 2: So I wanted to start twenty twenty six off on

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Speaker 2: a hopeful note. I know that we often focus on

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Speaker 2: how technologies like AI are undermining human creative labor. Those

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Speaker 2: concerns are very real, and we will definitely keep talking

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Speaker 2: about them in twenty twenty six. But this episode is

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Speaker 2: about something encouraging, a case where human creators are actually

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Speaker 2: being centered and valued in an increasingly automated industry. Because

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Speaker 2: one of the questions I get asked a lot as

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Speaker 2: a podcaster is aren't you worried that AI will one

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Speaker 2: day replace you? The truth is there actually are already

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Speaker 2: AI generated podcasts and podcast hosts, and AI could actually

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Speaker 2: replace my voice already. But would anyone actually want to listen?

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Speaker 2: Great questions? Hi, This is Bridget's AI generated vocal clone,

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Speaker 2: generated by her podcast recording software. Listeners are really clear

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Speaker 2: that even though AI generated voices like this one exist

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Speaker 2: and are abundant and cheap and easy to create, no

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Speaker 2: one is tuning in to listen because humans want to

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Speaker 2: engage with and build trust with creative work they know

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Speaker 2: is produced by other humans. Okay, so I won't lie

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Speaker 2: that vocal Clone does sound a little bit like me,

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Speaker 2: I guess, but it also sounds weird as hell, right,

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Speaker 2: And it's no wonder that iHeart is keeping AI generated

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Speaker 2: voices like that one off their platform. So what does

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Speaker 2: all this mean for the future of creative work going forward?

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Speaker 2: To get into all of that, I turned to Will

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Speaker 2: Pearson because without his support, this very human podcast might

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Speaker 2: never have existed. Will has been making cool stuff on

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Speaker 2: the Internet since back before we really knew what any

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Speaker 2: of that meant, and today he runs podcasts for iHeart

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Speaker 2: and was one of the people behind this decision to

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Speaker 2: only feature human podcasters on the network, not AI.

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Speaker 1: Will.

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Speaker 2: People might not have heard you on Tangoti before, but

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Speaker 2: you're kind of like to quote swingers, like the guy

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Speaker 2: behind the guy behind the guy of Iheart's podcasts. It's

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Speaker 2: how I would put it.

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Speaker 1: That may be fair. I'm happy to see you, Bridget.

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Speaker 1: It's been a minute great to be on it has.

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Speaker 2: It has When people ask me what it's like working

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Speaker 2: at iHeart. I always say that one of the things

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Speaker 2: I love about it is that the people who are

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Speaker 2: making a lot of the decisions are also creatives themselves.

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Speaker 2: You have been hosting podcasts for a really long time.

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Speaker 2: Recent Signal Award winner.

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Speaker 1: Right naw, thank you, yes, and congrats to you.

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Speaker 2: Oh thank you. So how did you first come to

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Speaker 2: this work? What brought you to podcasting?

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Speaker 1: M hm, So I have to back up to the

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Speaker 1: first part of my career. I say first part of

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Speaker 1: my career, I really only had like two different jobs.

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Speaker 1: But in college, with a classmate of mine, we started

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Speaker 1: a magazine and then a small media company called Mental

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Speaker 1: Floss and grew it and ran it for about ten

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Speaker 1: years before we before we sold it. And then we

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Speaker 1: were working for that company that had acquired Mental Flaws

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Speaker 1: for a few years, and toward the end of that time,

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Speaker 1: someone reached out to us from Stuff Media or more

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Speaker 1: publicly known as how Stuff Works, with some of the

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Speaker 1: best podcasts in the world. You know, shows like Stuff

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Speaker 1: you Should Know, Stuff you missed in history class, Stuff

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Speaker 1: Mom never told you. You might have heard of that show,

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Speaker 1: bridget I have some other really really good shows, and

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Speaker 1: there was sort of a shared spirit behind what was

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Speaker 1: happening at and How Stuff Works and what we'd been

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Speaker 1: doing at Mental Floss with this whole idea of people

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Speaker 1: like to feel smart, people like to feel well in

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Speaker 1: for but sometimes there's a block to that. Sometimes learning

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Speaker 1: can feel daunting. Sometimes it can feel you know, overwhelming

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Speaker 1: to learn in categories that you may not be an

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Speaker 1: expert in. But our whole goal was to help people

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Speaker 1: learn things across so many different subject areas, and How

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works was doing sort of the same. And at

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Speaker 1: that time, this was back in twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 1: they were thinking about spending off their podcast division and

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Speaker 1: seeing what could happen with that because people kept talking

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Speaker 1: about you know, podcast and what these were going to be,

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Speaker 1: and just you can remember that stage where not everybody

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Speaker 1: had listened to a podcast at that point, not everybody

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Speaker 1: even heard about them, but they started to hear about them,

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Speaker 1: and we were really intrigued, the two of us that

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Speaker 1: started Mental Flaws together, and we had the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: join the team. And you know, as you mentioned first,

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Speaker 1: in the form of hosting a podcast, we have a

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Speaker 1: podcast called Part Time Genius. But also in jumping in

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Speaker 1: in the ability to help sort of strategize and figure

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Speaker 1: out how to grow what we were doing and how

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Speaker 1: stuff works, and we had the good fortune of working

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Speaker 1: with some of the best shows in the business. They

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Speaker 1: were just independent shows at that point. And then about

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Speaker 1: a year or so after that, in twenty eighteen, iHeartMedia

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Speaker 1: had come along, obviously the biggest player in radio in

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Speaker 1: the US, but at that point wasn't in podcasting, but

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Speaker 1: wanted to figure out how to grow what they were doing,

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Speaker 1: and somehow they found us qualified to be a part

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Speaker 1: of that. Then it was a lot of fun. I

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Speaker 1: love building and I love building things with sort of

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Speaker 1: a small business mentality at first, and then sort of

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Speaker 1: scaling from there. And so we've had the really good

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Speaker 1: fortune of being part of the podcast division here at

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Speaker 1: iHeart for the past seven years, I guess now, and

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Speaker 1: it's just been a blast to be able to grow this.

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Speaker 2: So I'm so glad that you mentioned mental Flaws. This

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Speaker 2: is a show about the Internet and technology For people

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Speaker 2: who are a bit younger than me, they might not remember,

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Speaker 2: like mental pluss has been around since like the very

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Speaker 2: early aughts, right, And so when you think about the

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Speaker 2: early days of where you would go to feel cool,

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Speaker 2: they're smart on the internet, right, Mental class was one

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Speaker 2: of the big players, And so that's one piece that

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Speaker 2: I want to highlight. But also so many people and

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Speaker 2: things that we think of as just ubiquitous online today,

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Speaker 2: like Hank Green, right, Like I follow him on social media.

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Speaker 2: He's like like, got his start early days Mental flaus

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Speaker 2: And so it's just interesting to me how you all

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Speaker 2: were really sort of building the architecture of what would

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Speaker 2: become you know, how we just understand media and interesting

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Speaker 2: content being online today, even in twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 1: Oh, that's nice of you to say that, and it was,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's with any whether it's a success story

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Speaker 1: or just story of building a business, there's always this

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Speaker 1: combination of of course hard work and you know, having

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Speaker 1: the skills to try to build a thing, but then

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Speaker 1: there's also just a lot of luck with timing and

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Speaker 1: the kinds of things that happened in the world around you.

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Speaker 1: Because we started Mental Flaws as a print magazine in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one, right after we graduated from college,

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Speaker 1: we had first started as a campus publication, and then

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Speaker 1: as you pointed out, in the years after that, of

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Speaker 1: course the Internet really blew up. Then social media comes

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Speaker 1: along in a more meaningful way. YouTube comes along in

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Speaker 1: a more meaningful way, And you're really at the beginning

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Speaker 1: stages of all of these game changing, communication changing medium

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Speaker 1: and platform. And it was so exciting to be able

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Speaker 1: to take this concept of helping people learn but in

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Speaker 1: a really entertaining way, and to be able to see

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Speaker 1: what that felt like in social media and video and

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Speaker 1: other medium that we could explore in And you're right

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Speaker 1: to see to have the good fortune to work with

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Speaker 1: creators like Hank and John Green that helped write some

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Speaker 1: of our early books, that hosted and co created our

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Speaker 1: YouTube channel. There were just a lot of creators coming

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Speaker 1: up around that same time that we're interested in exploring

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Speaker 1: these spaces, and it was a blast to get to

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Speaker 1: do it all together.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that we're living in time where folks

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Speaker 2: can still do that, where folks can just start a

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Speaker 2: publication just because they're interested in something and watch it

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Speaker 2: turn into like a real meaningful thing. Sometimes I worry

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Speaker 2: that if you didn't start your cool project, you know,

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Speaker 2: ten years ago, twenty years ago now, which is going

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Speaker 2: to get kind of lost in the sauce.

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Speaker 1: What do you think, you know, it's hard to do

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Speaker 1: I ever have that worry. Definitely, I definitely have those

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Speaker 1: kinds of concerns. But then you look around and you

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Speaker 1: realize that the ways of cutting through may be a

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Speaker 1: little bit different. But we're constantly watching the creator space

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Speaker 1: and seeing who's coming into it, how they're cutting through

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Speaker 1: the clutter. And I still do strongly believe that if

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Speaker 1: people are creating something really meaningful, and if there is

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Speaker 1: an audience that's eager to learn or just discover in

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Speaker 1: those categories, that there are ways to get in front

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Speaker 1: of them. It's a lot of work. It takes a

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Speaker 1: lot of you know, for creators. The creators that know

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Speaker 1: how to market to the audiences that want to consume

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Speaker 1: their content are definitely going to have that leg up.

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Speaker 1: And that was the thing that we learned very early

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Speaker 1: on with mental flows, and I think those saying rules

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Speaker 1: apply today. We couldn't just create a thing and put

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Speaker 1: it out in the world and hope that people discovered it.

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Speaker 1: We had to create the thing, and then we had

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Speaker 1: to go around to as many like minded, you know,

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Speaker 1: people and audiences and publications and websites and social media

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Speaker 1: platforms and try to get what we were doing in

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Speaker 1: front of them. It was as much a part of

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Speaker 1: the job as anything that we were doing. So it

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Speaker 1: was you know, it took a lot to do that.

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Speaker 1: Of course, it's still it's still a concern sometimes, you know,

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Speaker 1: in a world where so so many people are trying

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Speaker 1: to create content. Well, I actually think is a very

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Speaker 1: good thing. You know, everybody deserves the chance to try

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Speaker 1: to create if they want to create, but it's a

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Speaker 1: crowded space across podcasting, across any other form of content creation.

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Speaker 1: I still do believe that the creators that are making

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Speaker 1: content that's really really good have the opportunity to break through.

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Speaker 1: I do think one of our realizations early on with

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Speaker 1: mental Flaws was the marketing side of things was as

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Speaker 1: time consuming and needed as much effort and consideration as

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Speaker 1: the content creation. And I think the creators that we

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Speaker 1: see that learn that very early on and understand it's

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Speaker 1: not just going to be the big marketing firms and

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Speaker 1: the big companies that are going to do the marketing

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Speaker 1: for them. That it requires a ton of hustle. And

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Speaker 1: we've seen a lot of creators. There's a show that

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Speaker 1: we have called The Psychology of Your Twenties, which is

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Speaker 1: this fantastic show that sort of came out of the

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Speaker 1: It really is came out of the pandemic. The name

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Speaker 1: says it all right. It's a podcast focused on mental

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Speaker 1: health for those primarily in their twenties. And this was

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Speaker 1: one creator, Gemma, out of Australia that just had this

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Speaker 1: great concept and she was making something really meaningful and

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Speaker 1: it started to find an audience and she really worked

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Speaker 1: hard to get it in front of as many people

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Speaker 1: as she could. And you know, you fast forward a

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Speaker 1: few years later, we ended up bringing it on to

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Speaker 1: our network so that we can help amplify that and

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Speaker 1: get it in front of even more listeners and now viewers.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I do believe that it is still possible

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Speaker 1: for independent creators and you know, sort of young creators

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Speaker 1: to be able to cut through with show concepts.

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Speaker 2: There is truly nothing that fills my cup like doing

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Speaker 2: creative work. It's the thing I love the most and

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Speaker 2: honestly it's something I think I'm pretty good at. But

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Speaker 2: what they don't tell you is that if you want

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Speaker 2: to be a full time creative, it's not just creating things.

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Speaker 2: It's also contracts, taxes, juggling deadlines, communicating with stakeholders, selling

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Speaker 2: your ideas, to people who aren't creatives, people who don't

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Speaker 2: always share your vision. Let's just say it's also figuring

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Speaker 2: out how to market your work so people actually find it,

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Speaker 2: all while still trying to make the thing that you

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Speaker 2: these are the parts of the job that I've never

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Speaker 2: really had much of a brain for. But Will is

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Speaker 2: someone who knows this dance very well. Is it hard

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Speaker 2: to balance sort of the creative like I'm someone who

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Speaker 2: makes the thing side of your brain with the I

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Speaker 2: am a decision maker part of your brain the like

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Speaker 2: marketing the I sometimes find it hard to be both,

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Speaker 2: and I can only imagine what that would be for

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Speaker 2: someone in a position like yourself.

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Speaker 1: It can be. I mean, I think really what happens

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Speaker 1: from time to time is sometimes there are show concepts

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Speaker 1: or pitches that we see that I fall in love with,

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Speaker 1: and I might know at a gut level those shows

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Speaker 1: are never going to be huge, just because maybe they're

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Speaker 1: just super niche topics or for whatever reason. But one

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Speaker 1: of the things that I love about, you know, our

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Speaker 1: network here, and one of the advantages in working of

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Speaker 1: a network of this size is we have the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to balance that out a little bit, right for every

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Speaker 1: Jay Shetty and Las Culturistas and Chelsea Handler and you know,

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Speaker 1: the Breakfast Club and all of the other huge shows

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Speaker 1: that we may have, we also have the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: create content and shows for a more niche audience where

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Speaker 1: that's relevant, and I think that's important. I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: podcasting will really lose its way if it all becomes

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Speaker 1: about just the mega creators. I think the beauty of

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Speaker 1: podcasting is there really is, you know, almost something for everyone.

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Speaker 1: Right now, the industry is still I think trying to

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Speaker 1: address that and making sure that there's representation and content

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Speaker 1: for all audiences. And where there's not, I think we

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Speaker 1: have the opportunity to jump in and try to fill

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Speaker 1: those gaps.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break at our back.

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Speaker 2: Late last year, iHeart, the company that publishes this very podcast,

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Speaker 2: announce what they're calling their Guaranteed Human Initiative. It's a

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Speaker 2: company wid policy committing to only airing music and content

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Speaker 2: that's performed and created by real people, not AI. That

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Speaker 2: means no AI generated podcast hosts, no AI musicians on

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Speaker 2: iHeartRadio stations, and that network DJs will actually announce that

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Speaker 2: they're guaranteed humans. Now iHeart will use AI behind the

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Speaker 2: scenes for things like analytics and scheduling, but not for

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Speaker 2: the voices and creative work that audience is here. And

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Speaker 2: this move came directly in response to what audiences were saying,

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Speaker 2: we want human authentic connection, not AI generated content in

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Speaker 2: our media. Now. Guess obviously, I will admit that I

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Speaker 2: am biased as a human who hosts a podcast, but

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Speaker 2: this announcement made me deeply happy. I don't want to

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Speaker 2: be super clear that nobody at iHeart asked me to

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Speaker 2: do an episode about this initiative. I just personally really

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Speaker 2: like it because I think that standing up for human

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Speaker 2: creativity is so important, especially right now. My producer Mike

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Speaker 2: and I actually talked about this announcement when it first

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Speaker 2: came out. Is not going to try to replace us

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Speaker 2: with robots?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 2: And when people ask me, aren't you worried about AI

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Speaker 2: taking your job as a podcaster, Honestly, I think that

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Speaker 2: the more AI garbage that's out there and flooding the space,

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Speaker 2: the more of a premium there is going to be

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Speaker 2: on actual human connection and actual human art and content.

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Speaker 2: And so I I am like, oh that can only

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Speaker 2: bode well for people, for for for humans who are

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Speaker 2: still invested and interested in telling actual human stories through

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Speaker 2: human voices. And so yeah, thank you for everyone listening

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Speaker 2: for continuing to be part of like the human revolution.

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Speaker 2: We are putting putting a flag in the a flag

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Speaker 2: in the ground for the human the human podcasters. So

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Speaker 2: this is what you've really given me. A great segue

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Speaker 2: intes sort of why I wanted to talk to you

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Speaker 2: on the show is the I heard announcement about guaranteed humans.

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Speaker 2: So listeners may be hearing the this is this podcast

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Speaker 2: is guaranteed human before the show, which they know I

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Speaker 2: am a guaranteed human. You know, I feel as we've

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Speaker 2: been having these conversations about AI AI generated content, this

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Speaker 2: is really to me. I heart doubling down on human creators.

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Speaker 2: Right if if more and more of our content because

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Speaker 2: AI generated, I think it's a risk of exactly what

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Speaker 2: you just described happening, where all the content kind of

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Speaker 2: sounds the same. You can sort of it out because

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Speaker 2: it's all sort of the same. By doubling down on

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Speaker 2: human creators, human voices perspectives, people who like have a

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Speaker 2: meaningful connection to the reason why they want to tell

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Speaker 2: you something. You know, I think it's really I guess

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Speaker 2: it just feels like a very exciting moment in podcasting.

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Speaker 2: The reason why I'm drawn to this medium is that

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Speaker 2: I'm a nerd. I want to hear other nerds nerd

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Speaker 2: out on something. I want to hear someone obsess over

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Speaker 2: something and be like damn that, but actually, like, who

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Speaker 2: knew this topic was so interesting? You get that from humans?

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, exactly. And that was beyond this being a

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Speaker 1: thing that we felt like was the right business decision.

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Speaker 1: It's also overwhelmingly what audiences are looking for when you

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Speaker 1: think about the medium, especially in audio, of podcasting, of radio.

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Speaker 1: Why people listen to podcasts and the nature and the

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Speaker 1: experience of listening will just stick with podcasts Sometimes that

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Speaker 1: we're you know, intimacy is overused a little bit just

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Speaker 1: in terms of explaining that, you know, experience of listening

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Speaker 1: to a podcast, But it's really true, like it is

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Speaker 1: when you're listening to podcasts, unlike when you're watching a

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Speaker 1: TV show, Unlike when you're consuming many other forms of content,

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Speaker 1: you're usually on your own. You're usually you know, exercising, cooking, doing,

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Speaker 1: you know, in a commute, whatever it may be and

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Speaker 1: it's just you and the podcast host or host, and

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Speaker 1: that's an incredibly intimate experience. And we people talk about

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Speaker 1: the parasocial relationships that occur between a listener and their

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Speaker 1: favorite podcaster or radio host, and so that's really why

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Speaker 1: people listen. We find that time and again, you know,

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Speaker 1: you can have great guest after great guest after great guests,

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Speaker 1: but if the host isn't right, the listeners won't come back.

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Speaker 1: And so they're here for the host. And so as

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Speaker 1: we started exploring the tools available to us now and

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Speaker 1: the tools that are emerging within AI technology, we saw

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Speaker 1: a lot of promise just in terms of, oh, here

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Speaker 1: are ways that may make production easier. Here are things

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Speaker 1: that may make some part of our process a bit easier.

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Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, through survey after survey,

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Speaker 1: whether it's ones we've done with listeners, whether it's third

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Speaker 1: party surveys that have been done, you see more than

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Speaker 1: ninety percent of listeners are saying, I want to make

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Speaker 1: sure that the person I'm listening to are the people

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Speaker 1: that I'm listening to are real people. I want to

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Speaker 1: have that connection. I have no interest in listening to

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Speaker 1: something that is not just created by AI but voiced

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Speaker 1: by AI, and so it was sort of a no

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Speaker 1: brainer for us. Now, I'll say when we rolled this out,

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Speaker 1: we didn't really know what the the reception would be.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we didn't think it would be negative, but

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Speaker 1: we didn't really know exactly how people would respond. And

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Speaker 1: to your point, now, when you listen to an iHeart

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Speaker 1: podcast or a lot you know on radio as well,

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Speaker 1: you'll hear this is an iHeart podcast Guaranteed Human. And

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Speaker 1: we just started doing that a couple weeks ago. And

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Speaker 1: I know we communicated about this, but the number of

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Speaker 1: listeners that we heard from almost immediately was pretty overwhelming

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Speaker 1: in a very positive way. And the other thing that

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Speaker 1: we started seeing was creators like yourself also reaching out

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Speaker 1: and across the board and saying this is incredible. How

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Speaker 1: can I do more to get this message out? And

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Speaker 1: so now what we're starting to roll out across our shows.

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Speaker 1: We have a big roster of shows, so it'll take

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Speaker 1: some time to do this is having each of the

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Speaker 1: creators actually be the ones to voice that tagline, that

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Speaker 1: messaging of guaranteed Human. And so now you know, pretty

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Speaker 1: soon here when you're listening to Jay Shetty Handler stuff,

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Speaker 1: you should know, and you know, I'm hoping there are

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Speaker 1: no girls on the internet. You'll actually hear the talent

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Speaker 1: themselves saying that, and it's a pretty cool experience. I

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Speaker 1: just heard the sample of it the other day from Chelsea,

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Speaker 1: and you understand how important these voices are. You hear

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Speaker 1: this is an iHeart podcast, and then you hear Chelsea's

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Speaker 1: voice say guarantee human and that's meaningful to know, like

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Speaker 1: this is her, this is the listener that relationship so

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Speaker 1: weirdly in a moment like this that sort of generates

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Speaker 1: so much fear, understandable fear on the part of consumers, listeners, viewers.

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Speaker 1: It actually has given us a second to take a

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Speaker 1: step back and say, what is it that really brings

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Speaker 1: people to these shows? And gives us a reminder and

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Speaker 1: a way to say, this is this is a very

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Speaker 1: special relationship we've created, don't screw this up. And so

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Speaker 1: it's I think there's actually been a great moment and

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Speaker 1: it's sort of a rallying moment through all of this.

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Speaker 2: If you listen to this podcast, you probably already know

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Speaker 2: that when it comes to AI and technology and media,

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Speaker 2: we are not often talking about anything even remotely happy

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Speaker 2: usually it's quite the opposite, in fact, but when I

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Speaker 2: Heart announced this, listeners were actually really responding. Even in

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Speaker 2: the corners of the internet where I hang out, where

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Speaker 2: we're usually just tearing AI use apart. It was something

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Speaker 2: we could be kind of cheerful about. I think when

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Speaker 2: I emailed you, I had three different people reach out

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Speaker 2: to me about it, and now it's gone up to five.

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Speaker 2: And this have not been out for very long. And Yeah,

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Speaker 2: even so, like one of my favorite iHeart podcasts is

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Speaker 2: Better Offline, there was a whole thread these are so

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Speaker 2: ed has really built a community of like people who

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Speaker 2: are like I would say, like skeptical, right, like I

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Speaker 2: would almost use the word like lovingly, like haters. These

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Speaker 2: are people who are like I have a lot of

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Speaker 2: criticisms and I'm going to waste them. The thread about

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Speaker 2: Guaranteed Human it was like positive comment after positive comment,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, Wow, I spend a lot of

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Speaker 2: time in this subreddit. I've never seen such an overwhelming

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Speaker 2: positive response to something. Yeah, and I just think that people, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: in a time where I think it just waiting through

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Speaker 2: content and digital content and it just has gotten so fraught.

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Speaker 2: It's just nice to have that that understanding that hey,

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Speaker 2: you're listening to a real person who is a real voice.

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Speaker 2: You know that whatever trust that you that you would

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Speaker 2: place in the voice of another human, you can place

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Speaker 2: that trust here. And that's Yeah, there's just something about

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Speaker 2: the medium of audio that I think that's that is

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Speaker 2: the currency, like that is why we do it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I completely agree. I love that you bring up

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Speaker 1: Ed because you know what he's done is and I

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Speaker 1: think you're right sort of like the playful haters. That's

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Speaker 1: such a great way to put it, because I don't

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Speaker 1: think they're out there to try to hurt anybody, but

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Speaker 1: I think they are out there to really force us

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Speaker 1: to think about the things that we're doing as a

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Speaker 1: society and in the world of technology. And so it's

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Speaker 1: it's and I love of having that show in our

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Speaker 1: network and his team and our network because they push

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Speaker 1: us to think about these things as well. You know,

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Speaker 1: any company, any you know, group of developers, anyone trying

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Speaker 1: to build a thing that doesn't have some checkpoints here

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Speaker 1: and there is probably not going to be the best

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Speaker 1: version of itself. And so I love that you know,

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Speaker 1: the work that you're doing, the work that Ed's doing

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Speaker 1: to really cause us to stop every once in a

435
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: while and think through these things and also to acknowledge,

436
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 1: you know, the world of AI and the technology there

437
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: will be life changing, can be game changing for this

438
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: world if we do it right. And I think there

439
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 1: are moments like this that really do cause us to

440
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 1: step back and say, Okay, yes, we have access to

441
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: these tools, why do we want to use these tools? Like,

442
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 1: what is our real goal here? What are we actually

443
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 1: trying to achieve? And hopefully if it's in the service

444
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,400
Speaker 1: of making lives better, making the world better, that will

445
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 1: channel the way that we use these tools rather than

446
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: just saying the whole goal is just to make everything

447
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: for companies cheaper and faster and all of that, because

448
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,719
Speaker 1: then you just end up in a world that's making

449
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 1: really bad stuff. And so I hope that this is

450
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 1: just one example of many, many, many, many, many things

451
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 1: happening across the corporate world the tech world that I

452
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: hope causes to step back and really ask those questions

453
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 1: before we continue to dive too much deeper into all

454
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: of this.

455
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 2: Yes, and I don't know if this is something that

456
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 2: you can speak to or not, but iHeart is really

457
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 2: you know, we're a major player we're like leading the way,

458
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 2: and I can't imagine that iHeart would have made a

459
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 2: decision like this if they did not think it was

460
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 2: also going to be like good for business. And I

461
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 2: just something about like all of the like warm fuzzy

462
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 2: stuff that gets my head tingling as a creator that

463
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 2: you said, I totally agree with, but also affirming human

464
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 2: creators in this moment can be.

465
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: Good for business too.

466
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 2: More after a quick break, let's get right back into it.

467
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 2: I have a whole talk that I give about the

468
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 2: importance of centering humans and creative work. I've delivered it

469
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 2: to many different audiences over the last few years, and

470
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 2: usually folks will assume that I'm going to affirm all

471
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 2: the warm, fuzzy, squishy reasons for why it's important to

472
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 2: amplify humans and creative work. That creativity is all about

473
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 2: humans connecting with other humans, and that is all true.

474
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 2: I do feel that way, but it's not just about feelings.

475
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 2: There is solid data demonstrating that business types should also

476
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 2: want to center humans and creative work because doing so

477
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 2: is good for business.

478
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that's the I mean, that's the whole point.

479
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: And you have these opportunities and I think they happen

480
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: way more than people want to, or sometimes that when

481
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 1: you really can find the intersection of what is it

482
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: that people actually want, what is it that actually can

483
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: provide a very positive service for people and be the

484
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 1: thing that's very good for business. This is definitely one

485
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: of those cases. You know, if the overwhelming majority of

486
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: people were like, I really want AI content for some reason,

487
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: then that would be a conversation we would have and

488
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 1: a thing that we would explore. But it's just not

489
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: And it's actually been kind of fun to see. And

490
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: I have two teenage kids, it's actually really fun to

491
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 1: see that generation that I think five years ago it

492
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: would have been easy to assume, Oh, these are all

493
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 1: kids that just were born with and have grown up

494
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 1: with an incredible amount of technology at their fingertips. All

495
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: they're going to want to see and hear is AI content.

496
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 1: They're the most vocally opposed to all things AI. From

497
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: our experience is what I could see. My kids very

498
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 1: actively seek thing that they know are one hundred percent

499
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 1: human and are up in arms when they see something

500
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: that they feels sort of not just cheating the system.

501
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 1: I don't mean that those that aren't ever using AI

502
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: tools to sort of make the things that they do

503
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: easier to do. But whether it's the creation of art,

504
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: whether it's the creation of music, whether it's you know,

505
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: whatever it may be, knowing that these are things really

506
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: created by people is important to this younger generation, which

507
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: I find to be encouraging for sure.

508
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 2: Oh this has been my experience as well. And I

509
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 2: actually have a theory that we're going to see especially

510
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 2: younger people shifting more toward like because they value authenticity, right,

511
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 2: They really value like genuine connection. They can, let me

512
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 2: tell you, as a parent to teens, I'm sure you know,

513
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 2: they can sniff it out when somebody is not being

514
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 2: authentic and they will roast you. Yes, Yes, it has

515
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 2: been my experience with young people as well.

516
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And so that part is encouraging. So, you know,

517
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: it's gonna be really interesting to watch over the next

518
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: three or four years to see, you know, there was

519
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: just this mad rush over the past few years to

520
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: get these tools and things out in the world, and

521
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: I actually think there is a movement here to try

522
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: to help us slow that down a little bit and

523
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: just make sure we're really thinking through what are we

524
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: trying to do. And maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but

525
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: I actually think this is this is an encouraging moment

526
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: that we're seeing here and voices that are stepping up

527
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,719
Speaker 1: to say collectively, we want to make sure people are

528
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: at the root of all of this.

529
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 2: So definitely, you know, as we wrap up, I one

530
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 2: of my favorite things about both being a podcast creator

531
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 2: and a listener of podcasts is those moments in a

532
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 2: podcast where you could never plan it for it, you

533
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 2: could never write it in a I could never replicate it.

534
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 2: Things they're so dang human. Is this a thing that

535
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 2: you feel like, have you experienced moments like that on shows?

536
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 2: We were like, A, I could never do that, oh

537
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 2: one hundred percent.

538
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: And actually, I think part of what it is and

539
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to use the word flaw and imperfection, and

540
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: I don't even know if those are the right words,

541
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: but they're still part of what makes us human. It's

542
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: sort of like, when to back up a little bit,

543
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: when we used to listen to podcasts at the beginning,

544
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: and then editors came along and would try to clean

545
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: up things too much and remove the ums and ahs

546
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: and stutters and restarts and those kinds of things, and

547
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: then you realize that that started feeling less human to people.

548
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: So that was sort of the early version of what

549
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: this felt like. I think this is kind of the

550
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: same thing. It's those moments of slip ups. It's those

551
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: moments of again being human that cause us to connect

552
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: to somebody. If we just hopped on and we were

553
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: talking about this topic and it sounded like we were

554
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: reading from an encyclopedia, people may get their information dip

555
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: in and dip out, but there's no real connection to

556
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: the people there. So yeah, I completely agree. And then

557
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: when it comes to humor, I mean, frankly, this is

558
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: just going to be a very interesting experiment and evolution

559
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,239
Speaker 1: of AI, just to see what that looks like. But

560
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: as you and I both know, like at the heart

561
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: of humor is the element of surprise and weirdness and

562
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: things that throw people off in a way, even from

563
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: a minor to a more major scale of that, and

564
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: I think that's really hard for AI to replicate. And

565
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: the same thing with emotion, to know what it feels

566
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: like to be human, I think is very difficult to

567
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: replicate that. So I'm encouraged by what we're hearing. I

568
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: love that you're talking about this so much. I think

569
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: it's incredibly important for us to be regularly talking about this,

570
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: to do what we can to try to get it right.

571
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 2: You know, the reason I wanted to talk to you

572
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 2: and sort of highlight this decision is that, you know,

573
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 2: we talk about technology on this podcast and there is

574
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 2: certainly a lot to be bummed out about. And then

575
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: also the podcasting space and just medium were generally can

576
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 2: be tough. I'm often talking about things that are tough,

577
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 2: and so having an announcement that made me genuine happy

578
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 2: and proud to be with the network that gets it,

579
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, we should spotlight this. But I

580
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 2: guess my final question for you is like, given all that,

581
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 2: when you think of the future of tech and the

582
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 2: audio landscape, are you are you hopeful? Are you happy

583
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 2: about what's on the horizon? Are you hopeful about what

584
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 2: you think we'll see and hear next?

585
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: Yeah?

586
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: I know, I definitely am. I think, sort of back

587
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: to one of your earlier questions, what we always have

588
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: to grapple with and think through is how do we

589
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: make sure that those that are creating really good stuff

590
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: are able to get that in front of audiences. Sometimes

591
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: that's mass audiences, sometimes that's smaller audiences, but that really

592
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: want and need what they're hearing. That part of it,

593
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: that evolution is what I'm very interested in. How does

594
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: the world of search change to help audio content, you know,

595
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: as we've seen with whether it's websites or social or

596
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: other things. These are the challenges that I think we

597
00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: have to think through. You know, we have the very

598
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: fortunate iHeart of having the kind of megaphone that we do,

599
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: but I still want to be able to root for

600
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 1: the independent creator that's just doing it all alone and

601
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: has just started something in their garage and it's putting

602
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: it out in the world, to know that there is

603
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: a path to be able to get their show, their

604
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: content in front of other people. Those are the kinds

605
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: of questions I think as an industry we're going to

606
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: have to be asking is how do we improve all

607
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: methods of discovery to make sure people can find the

608
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: really good stuff out there? But you know, like any medium,

609
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: in any form of communication, there are ways to do it.

610
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: It will all evolve. I'm optimistic about it.

611
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 2: Ugh, it makes me so happy to hear.

612
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: This, you know. I think it's important to note that

613
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: this isn't just about podcast I mean this is about

614
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: all forms of art and expression that are out there.

615
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: Part of what I was really pleased to see. You know,

616
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: I have no decision making ability when it comes to

617
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: like the radio and music side of the business, but

618
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: our ends over on the radio and music side of

619
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: the business. Here at iHeart, we're also one hundred percent

620
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: aligned with this thinking. And so you're seeing more and

621
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: more music created that is not only AI created, but

622
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,919
Speaker 1: AI voiced as well. And from that you're even seeing

623
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: a few of these shows. You've seen headlines about shows

624
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 1: hitting the charts and the country music category or and

625
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: the hip hop category, and I love that. iHeart on

626
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: that side of the business as well, also made that

627
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: decision to say, look, if they want to create that, fine,

628
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: they should have the right to create that. We're not

629
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: here to play it, We're not here to surface it.

630
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: We're here to focus on those that are truly you know,

631
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: human voiced, human created and when we know that to

632
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: be the case. So I was pleased to see that

633
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: as well. And I think other medium, other companies, others

634
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 1: will join us in this effort, and I think that'll

635
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: be a very very good decision on all of their

636
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: parts when they do.

637
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 2: I could not agree more. I think it's really about

638
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 2: listening to your audiences and listening to what audiences are

639
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 2: that they want in there in their media. I absolutely

640
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 2: I could not agree more.

641
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I just want to say thank you for

642
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: talking about this, for giving me a chance to come

643
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: on and talk about it. But I appreciate the work

644
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: that you're doing, Bridget. We need more Bridget Todds in

645
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: the world. But thanks for doing what you're doing.

646
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for being here. Will where can folks

647
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:22,959
Speaker 2: keep in touch with you and your work?

648
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: Well, I hope you will check out. We don't necessarily

649
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: talk about AI and the work of what's happening in

650
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: the industry that much because we're sort of a nerdy

651
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: let's talk about the happy things across history and science

652
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: and other stuff. But to check out Part Time Genius,

653
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: but also to check out several other iHeart podcasts. It's

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Speaker 1: my favorite part of the job as we get to

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Speaker 1: think about shows across pretty much every category and podcasting

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Speaker 1: and it's just a lot of fun to do it.

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Speaker 2: The way that I describe Part Time Genius to folks

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Speaker 2: who have not heard it is that if you are

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Speaker 2: in a relationship where your partner goes to sleep and

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Speaker 2: you are awake on your phone being like, let's go

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Speaker 2: down our Wikipedia rabbit hole. It is the show for you,

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Speaker 2: Like like, if you're a good Wikipedia page to just

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Speaker 2: spend a couple hours on. Yea, this is the podcast

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Speaker 2: for you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. I appreciate that we try to be really

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Speaker 1: family friendly. It's definitely more sort of youthful orient and

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Speaker 1: in terms of the topics, a lot of our listenership

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00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: are actually, you know, teenagers and even some younger, but

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Speaker 1: we try to just take a very playful, nerdy style

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Speaker 1: to all the things we want to learn about.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for being here, Will.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Bridget, it was good to see you.

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Speaker 2: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech. I

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Speaker 2: just want to say hi. You can reach us at

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Speaker 2: Hello at tegodi dot com. You can also find transcripts

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Speaker 2: for today's episode at tengody dot com. There Are No

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Speaker 2: Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Toad.

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Speaker 2: It's a production of iHeartRadio, an Unboss creative. Jonathan Strickland

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Speaker 2: is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and

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Speaker 2: sound engineer. Michael Almato is our contributing producer. I'm Your

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00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 2: host Bridget Toad. If you want to up us, grow rate,

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Speaker 2: and review us on Apple podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 2: check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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Speaker 2: get your podcasts,