Speaker 1: From the creator of The Bright Sessions, comes a new
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Speaker 1: practical tools to help you feel less busy and get
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Speaker 1: Radio app four wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Emilia
Speaker 1: on this podcast. I'm taking you on a search, a
Speaker 1: search for love, hard working Latina, but there were other
Speaker 1: reasons I felt like I couldn't always beat myself. My
Speaker 1: mom in prison. This crumbs my love story. It's a
Speaker 1: show about the things we set up for and the
Speaker 1: bits of ourselves that make us who we are. Listen
Speaker 1: to Crumbs on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm really devided. You
Speaker 1: probably know me from the UK version of the Office,
Speaker 1: or the Office as we call it in the UK. Hello,
Speaker 1: and welcome back to the Office Deep Dive. I am
Speaker 1: your host, Brian Baumgardner. Today you will get to listen
Speaker 1: to my conversation with the one and only one of
Speaker 1: my comedy heroes, Ricky Gervais. Ricky was the co creator
Speaker 1: of the British version of the Office along with Stephen Merchant,
Speaker 1: who we spoke to last week, and Ricky, in addition
Speaker 1: to creating the show, also played David Brent, the British
Speaker 1: counterpart and the inspiration for Michael Scott, who was somehow
Speaker 1: possibly even more cringe e than Michael was. I didn't
Speaker 1: think it was possible either, but only Ricky himself could
Speaker 1: pull that off. Now, obviously, Ricky is a very, very
Speaker 1: busy man, and when I interviewed him, he was doing
Speaker 1: a ton of press for another show he created called Afterlife,
Speaker 1: which I am obsessed with. That show. I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1: Everyone you should go and watch it if you haven't. Um,
Speaker 1: but Ricky was doing so many TV appearances at the
Speaker 1: time that when I spoke to him, he thought that
Speaker 1: this was another video interview, which it was not. So
Speaker 1: here I am, I'm lounging in, I'm in my sweatpants,
Speaker 1: and Key is looking sharp, he's looking camera ready, he's
Speaker 1: looking Gervais sexy is how I like to call it. Um,
Speaker 1: So just keep that image in your head as you listen. UM. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I am totally psyched that I got a chance to
Speaker 1: talk to him, and I so appreciate him making the
Speaker 1: time for us. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the
Speaker 1: incomparable Ricky Gervais. Bubble and Squeak. I love it. Bubble
Speaker 1: and Squeak on Bubble and Squeaker cookie every month, left
Speaker 1: over from the night before. UM, do you know what
Speaker 1: we're doing here? Isn't it a podcast about the history
Speaker 1: of the Uh? Yeah? So like the ten second version
Speaker 1: is basically the Office American version. Since two thousand seventeen,
Speaker 1: it's the number one streaming show in the world. It
Speaker 1: has over a hundred and thirty five billion minutes that
Speaker 1: have been stream stream in essentially two years and so
Speaker 1: what we're doing is going back and trying to figure
Speaker 1: out why this has happened. Um. Yeah, Well, I mean
Speaker 1: it's a testament to all the hard work, hard work
Speaker 1: that went into it, and the rioting and the action,
Speaker 1: the fact that it's about everyday people and about everything exactly.
Speaker 1: All right, I'm just going to start at the beginning
Speaker 1: and I'll ask you questions. So what were the what
Speaker 1: were the influences that had you And you know, Stephen
Speaker 1: talked to me a little bit about you know, how
Speaker 1: you guys got to know each other and you hired
Speaker 1: him as as your assistant the radio station. Well, what
Speaker 1: were some of the influences that you guys had. Well,
Speaker 1: it goes back before that, It goes back before that.
Speaker 1: I had David Frent as a character. Um, you know
Speaker 1: a few years before that. In fact, I worked in
Speaker 1: an office for like ten years, and obviously that's the
Speaker 1: biggest influence real life, being part of it of a
Speaker 1: working office, and you know, you start noticing that the
Speaker 1: fact that you're thrown together with random people and you
Speaker 1: have to get along. So, you know, that was one
Speaker 1: theme coupled with that. Throughout the nineties, I watched a
Speaker 1: lot of those docu soaps that were happening here where
Speaker 1: ordinary people got their fifteen minutes of fame. Um, there
Speaker 1: was one called Airline and airport and you know all that,
Speaker 1: you know, the hotel and sort of they'd make celebrities
Speaker 1: that are these normal people because they were just ordinary people.
Speaker 1: But they were funny and at work and and of
Speaker 1: course now fames a different beast. Now they'd get an
Speaker 1: agent and they try and get their own game show
Speaker 1: and make the most of it, and you know, but
Speaker 1: then it was sort of it was they were quite quaint.
Speaker 1: But I did notice that people had started to be
Speaker 1: obsessed with fame in the nineties, and of course that's
Speaker 1: just got worse and worse and worse until it sort
Speaker 1: of eats itself. So those were the those were the
Speaker 1: sort of big things, an ordinary person getting his one
Speaker 1: shot fame, wanting to be famous. You know, if you
Speaker 1: take away it was a fake documentary, it doesn't make
Speaker 1: much sense because you say, well, why is David Brent
Speaker 1: acting like that? Or he wants to be famous, he
Speaker 1: wants to be discovered, he wants to be loved, he
Speaker 1: needs to hug you know, So so it was a
Speaker 1: bit it was a we weren't spoofing the genre, but
Speaker 1: the fact that it was meant to be a documentary.
Speaker 1: You know, it's fifty of the show before you start
Speaker 1: writing the sitcom, and um, so how much how much
Speaker 1: of the comedy comes from it being a documentary. Well,
Speaker 1: you've got to believe this is a real person who
Speaker 1: wants to be famous. So you've got to really believe that.
Speaker 1: Um you're eavesdropping almost you're you're looking on someone's life.
Speaker 1: Because if you start thinking about you know, it's it's written,
Speaker 1: anything can happen. So you have to try and make
Speaker 1: the ordinary extraordinary. And once you realize that David Frn
Speaker 1: just wants to be discovered and become famous and needs
Speaker 1: a hug, it all seems to make sense really, And
Speaker 1: from a personal point of view, I wanted it to
Speaker 1: be a more about body language, not just acting and
Speaker 1: saying the lines. I wanted it to be you know,
Speaker 1: people notice things like I hated it in the drama
Speaker 1: or comedy where someone would hang up the phone and
Speaker 1: then talk to themselves, you know, like go mm hm,
Speaker 1: he doesn't usually call on a Tuesday. They have to
Speaker 1: find a way of showing someone was worried or lying,
Speaker 1: and you know you do that by the guy sort
Speaker 1: of not looking at you and then flicking his eyes
Speaker 1: at the camera, or you know, you had to somehow
Speaker 1: act like you would if you were being filmed and
Speaker 1: being caught out. And so there was there was lots
Speaker 1: of reminders that this was a fake documentary, because otherwise
Speaker 1: it just wasn't that special or interesting. If that, there'd
Speaker 1: be no reason to be making, you know, a sitcom
Speaker 1: where these people were acting like that, unless it was
Speaker 1: because one of them sort of wanting to be discovered
Speaker 1: and famous. So it really was about you know, TV
Speaker 1: in itself. It was about people, the beginning of this
Speaker 1: new narcicism, this beginning of people doing anything, you know,
Speaker 1: living their life like an open wound, just doing anything.
Speaker 1: And and that was the beginning of bad behavior being rewarded.
Speaker 1: You know, as soon as we people thought, well I
Speaker 1: made it. I made an absolute proud of myself on television.
Speaker 1: But they've invited me on a new program to talk
Speaker 1: about it. You know, it's okay. And then people started
Speaker 1: with people that would break the law and then write
Speaker 1: a book, you know, So that was the ninth is
Speaker 1: I saw that a lot. But apart from that, it was.
Speaker 1: It was still about people. It was still about people
Speaker 1: being randomly thrown together and getting along, you know, and
Speaker 1: and conflict. But the fact that it was a fact
Speaker 1: documentary and one person in particular wanted to come out
Speaker 1: of this famous because he was looking for something. He
Speaker 1: was searching for something, you know, that was a very
Speaker 1: very big part of it. Yeah, it's interesting you talk
Speaker 1: about behavior, right, and that so much of the comedy
Speaker 1: comes from that. Greg Daniels shared with me that he
Speaker 1: would send his writers down to the set to just
Speaker 1: observe the actors because you can't write people's behavior, you
Speaker 1: can't write their body posture, you can't write that stuff.
Speaker 1: And so to really observe, for the writers on the
Speaker 1: American Office, to actually observe are the actors and the
Speaker 1: characters in their setting, because so much of the humor
Speaker 1: came from that. Yeah, and that's because obviously, in real life,
Speaker 1: so much communication is non verbal. You know, just someone being,
Speaker 1: as I said, someone lying, they don't look at you.
Speaker 1: They touched their face. They when they're nervous, they touched
Speaker 1: their own head. You know. Brent kept fiddling with his tie.
Speaker 1: He wasn't quite comfortable being in charge the way he
Speaker 1: convulsed and giggled to show that he wanted to be
Speaker 1: one of the gangs. And you know, you're you're right
Speaker 1: that if we hadn't shot a little pilot showing the character,
Speaker 1: it was like a couple of years before we did
Speaker 1: the actual thing. I went back to the office I
Speaker 1: used to work in, and I had like friends who
Speaker 1: still worked there, but we used as extras, so it
Speaker 1: looked very hyper real. But they also like to see
Speaker 1: what I meant if I have said, oh, this is
Speaker 1: a character. He's quite boring, really and quite desperate to
Speaker 1: be loved. He doesn't say anything funny. He screws up
Speaker 1: jokes in that and when he makes a joke, no
Speaker 1: one laughs. And then he touched his tie and looked
Speaker 1: at the camera. They think, what is this? You know,
Speaker 1: it just doesn't jump off the page. It was it
Speaker 1: was a performance piece. Initially it was it was about
Speaker 1: behavior and about a man who was doing stuff to
Speaker 1: be loved and famous, and deep down he wanted to
Speaker 1: be popular and he thought being famous would that would
Speaker 1: be a short cut to it. And you know, he
Speaker 1: he threw everything. You know, he wanted to be a
Speaker 1: philosopher and a teacher, he wanted to be cool, he
Speaker 1: wanted to be sexy, he wanted to be funny, he
Speaker 1: wanted to be all those things that he wasn't quite.
Speaker 1: And that is comedy. It's most basic, particularly in sitcom.
Speaker 1: A sitcom is about an average guy or gal and
Speaker 1: an average person who's trying to do something they're not
Speaker 1: equipped to do. And that's what we're laughing at the
Speaker 1: blind Spot. So I just made David friend so about
Speaker 1: the blind Spot. But it was so it was so
Speaker 1: obvious and cringe e what we were trying to say
Speaker 1: with this man. He was delusional, and that in itself
Speaker 1: was about people who wanted to be famous. Because in
Speaker 1: the nineties there were people, as I said, there were
Speaker 1: these people that in you know, quaint docu soaps, just
Speaker 1: getting on with their lives and being discovered and having
Speaker 1: their fifteen minutes and that was it. But then all
Speaker 1: this talent shows started and how many times have you
Speaker 1: seen people on the talent show crying, going, please, I
Speaker 1: just want this, vote for me, I just want this.
Speaker 1: We want to go, well, what's that got to do
Speaker 1: with me? Why you what? What's that got to do
Speaker 1: with us? What? What a we care? Whether you want
Speaker 1: to be famous just because you want it, Well, what
Speaker 1: are you going to do for it? What? What have you?
Speaker 1: Whatever have you put in? You know? And then it
Speaker 1: wasn't even talent shows. Then it was just people and
Speaker 1: be and famous for being famous and doing anything to
Speaker 1: be famous, you know, or being a housewife, I said,
Speaker 1: being a housewife, right, like suddenly being a housewife Beverly
Speaker 1: Hills or whatever, like yeah, it's yeah, exactly, but but
Speaker 1: just just people, you know. And then it got to
Speaker 1: be that the producers are in on it. People would say,
Speaker 1: let me go in big Brother, and I promise our
Speaker 1: cause trouble, start a fight to take my clothes off,
Speaker 1: and the producers said, okay, you're in. It was these
Speaker 1: It was honestly, it was these contrived things people. You know,
Speaker 1: you watch shows like The Apprentice, and these people they
Speaker 1: say anything to get on with the blessing of the
Speaker 1: producer that wants to see conflict. You know, I'll go
Speaker 1: in there, I'll put the cat among the pigeons. I'm
Speaker 1: a man who will steamroller anyone who gets in my way.
Speaker 1: I say what I think, I ruf all feathers, and
Speaker 1: the producers are going, well, great, let's do it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's let's and and suddenly there was there was this
Speaker 1: culture of misbehavior media that was being rewarded. But I
Speaker 1: think that it was just the start of it. When
Speaker 1: I came with David Brent, it was just you know,
Speaker 1: and as I say, he was mainly before television, before docusents,
Speaker 1: he was mainly just a Frankenstein of those guys you
Speaker 1: meet growing up. You know, your elders who should know better,
Speaker 1: your teachers who sometimes embarrass themselves, your first boss who
Speaker 1: was an idiot, and it's it's someone behaving when they
Speaker 1: should know better. And that's why it was important that
Speaker 1: he was the boss, really because if he weren't the boss,
Speaker 1: he could be an idiot. And sometimes sitcoms made the difference,
Speaker 1: you know, the mistake of they they got that right
Speaker 1: and then they went on holiday, and on holiday it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter so much because people can behave badly on holiday.
Speaker 1: So you need that restriction, you need that authority that
Speaker 1: he's undermining. You know, it has to be someone who
Speaker 1: shouldn't be behaving like this because they should be a
Speaker 1: role model and they shouldn't know better. So all those
Speaker 1: things were put in the mix, and the big theme
Speaker 1: of it as well. Was uh men as boys and
Speaker 1: women has grown ups because there was also a PC
Speaker 1: culture that I saw come in where people were taught
Speaker 1: what to say and do, but they didn't really mean it.
Speaker 1: So guys like him, they knew that they couldn't be
Speaker 1: sexist upstairs because they're you know, they're get in trouble
Speaker 1: with HR And they talked a good talk and they
Speaker 1: talked about sexism, misogyny and racism, but deep down they
Speaker 1: hadn't changed and they could get away with that in
Speaker 1: the warehouse. So Brent was caught between two worlds because
Speaker 1: he wanted to be loved by everyone. He wanted to
Speaker 1: be a lad downstairs with the warehouse, but then he
Speaker 1: had to behave properly in front of his boss. It
Speaker 1: was a man who was caught. He was caught between
Speaker 1: two worlds. He wanted to say terrible things, but the
Speaker 1: camera was rolling. He wanted to be one of the guys,
Speaker 1: but his boss was watching. So this was a man
Speaker 1: who wasn't comfortable with himself because he wasn't being honest
Speaker 1: with himself. He wasn't being honest because he didn't he
Speaker 1: just wanted a hand out of business cards that said
Speaker 1: great bloke just laugh at my jokes. But life isn't
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Speaker 1: kind and Asia. This is the professor. We're here on
Speaker 1: Eating Wall Broke, and today I'm gonna break down my
Speaker 1: meal that got me through a time when I was broken.
Speaker 1: Listen to Eating Wall Broke on the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: on Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Did
Speaker 1: you know that on the day Dr King was shot,
Speaker 1: the old black security detail normally assigned to him was
Speaker 1: called off. They're the ones who would not allow him
Speaker 1: to stay at any hotel with balconies. That security union
Speaker 1: was reassigned. I was a man there who just bawn
Speaker 1: in and I was track. Did you know that on
Speaker 1: the day Dr King was shot, two black firemen stationed
Speaker 1: across the street and one black police detective who was
Speaker 1: surveiling King. We're all taken off the job. What was
Speaker 1: the emergency that caused? Usually moved another fire sun? Did
Speaker 1: you ever asked what this was all about? And then
Speaker 1: this is the MLK tapes. The first episodes are available now.
Speaker 1: Listen on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember the this
Speaker 1: time you met Ben Silverman? Yes, I do. I was
Speaker 1: walking down the street in London. I think I was
Speaker 1: going to see my agent, and the phone rang um
Speaker 1: and he said, Hi, it's Ben Silverman. You don't know me.
Speaker 1: I wanna I want to remake the Office for America.
Speaker 1: And I went okay, all right. He said can we
Speaker 1: meet up? He said I'm in town. I went right.
Speaker 1: He said where are you? I'll come to you. I've
Speaker 1: juve the cab. I went okay, and I looked up
Speaker 1: and I said, right, I'm right outside Starbucks in ward
Speaker 1: Or Street and he went, wait there, I'll be there
Speaker 1: in fifteen minutes and he jumped in a cab. He
Speaker 1: got I've never met anyone like him. He came and
Speaker 1: found me because obviously he knew what he looked like
Speaker 1: because he'd watched the Office. And he talked to me
Speaker 1: and I said, well, listen, let me introduce you to
Speaker 1: my agent to get the ball rolling. And I took
Speaker 1: him in to see Duncan Hayes as my UK still
Speaker 1: is my Okay agent, and that's and that was the
Speaker 1: beginning of it. And then I can't remember all the
Speaker 1: details or all the phone calls, but I think the
Speaker 1: next big step was we sort of auditions show runners
Speaker 1: and we saw some amazing ones from my favorite programs
Speaker 1: of all time. We we chose Greg. And I think
Speaker 1: we chose Greg not just because of his body's work,
Speaker 1: which was as good as anyone's, and he was a
Speaker 1: nice chat but I think I think it was because
Speaker 1: he was the only one that brought up that he
Speaker 1: thought it was a love story. That was very important
Speaker 1: to me. That the love story. So you know, I
Speaker 1: didn't want to say I never thought of it was,
Speaker 1: you know, just the sitcom. You know, you traditionally sitcoms were,
Speaker 1: as I say, an ordinary guy getting into Caper's and
Speaker 1: then you num back at square one and there wasn't
Speaker 1: there wasn't really romance. But you know, we stole that
Speaker 1: from America because you know, and movies, because you know,
Speaker 1: there was always a love interest in movies and a
Speaker 1: lot of Americans shows have more romance and love interests
Speaker 1: than than ours. That was usually about a grumpy, middle
Speaker 1: aged man, so we we like that. And then I
Speaker 1: can't remember what all of this this was in, but
Speaker 1: I think it was the Golden Globes where we won
Speaker 1: for the office and I won Best Comedy Actor. I
Speaker 1: think that was the same week. So we went to
Speaker 1: Ben Silverman's office, and I don't know before and after,
Speaker 1: but then Ben and Greg came to London that I
Speaker 1: think that was nearer the time when we were very
Speaker 1: getting very close to actually start in production, and we
Speaker 1: worked out the translation what was slow in America, you know,
Speaker 1: what was the equivalent of this, and what was the
Speaker 1: equivalent of that, and do we have this and what
Speaker 1: we almost did like a blueprint to you know, just
Speaker 1: americanizing stuff, and then we started. Then we started auditions
Speaker 1: and and that was it. I do remember at one point,
Speaker 1: I think before or auditions, or when we were thinking
Speaker 1: of looking for you know, the David Brent and I
Speaker 1: think Ben Silverman called me and said, why don't you plane?
Speaker 1: And I said, well, what were the point of that?
Speaker 1: I did my best. Now I want to rest. Now
Speaker 1: I want some I want some other schmack to do
Speaker 1: a two episodes. But mainly my really, apart from the
Speaker 1: fact that I was lazy and I was terrified of
Speaker 1: being working hard for seven years, I said, no, this
Speaker 1: should be this should be made by Americans for Americans.
Speaker 1: And I was flattered that they even let us being
Speaker 1: involved as we were. But you know, it really took
Speaker 1: off when they started making in their own show. Is
Speaker 1: the first episode was basically a remake, but then it
Speaker 1: just got further and further away, and you know, by
Speaker 1: the end, it yeah, it was it was his own show.
Speaker 1: And I remember that people were scared because The Office
Speaker 1: was such a media darling, you know, to a few Americans,
Speaker 1: even its peak. I remember the Office in America, the
Speaker 1: our version. I remember it was the biggest show on
Speaker 1: BBC America and it had something like one point one million, right,
Speaker 1: and Ben Dieldon was saying, listen, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: people that haven't seen this, that won't be prejudiced. But
Speaker 1: of course, I remember he was worried about the press
Speaker 1: saying this is a you know this, we love the original, um,
Speaker 1: and he came up with a really good thing. When
Speaker 1: they were saying, why would you do a remake of
Speaker 1: this that the original was perfect, he said, well, why
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I wouldn't make a film of a shitty novel.
Speaker 1: I'd make a film of the best novel I could find.
Speaker 1: And I thought that was such a clever counter. But
Speaker 1: of course we want to remake of something that's really
Speaker 1: good at wine, we don't remake something that was terrible.
Speaker 1: And then soon, you know, people forgot that there was original.
Speaker 1: Some people don't even know there's an original. To most
Speaker 1: Americans that they have no idea that this is a remake,
Speaker 1: and they don't care. And you know, and I imagine
Speaker 1: most people who love the American Office they prefer it
Speaker 1: to the British version. So and which is a great
Speaker 1: position to be in for me. I remember once it
Speaker 1: was after syndication and someone someone on Twitter sent me
Speaker 1: a tweet that said, the American version of the Office
Speaker 1: is so much bigger and better than yours. How does
Speaker 1: that make you feel? And I sent back, fucking exactly.
Speaker 1: I don't think you had any problem with the success
Speaker 1: of the American version of The Office. No, I was,
Speaker 1: you know, but I remember also early days it was
Speaker 1: an okay start. It was a new sitcom. I mean
Speaker 1: it was our network TV, so it was already audacious.
Speaker 1: It was pretty out there. Yeah, and the readings were
Speaker 1: not good. It was it was a bit spiky and different,
Speaker 1: and I think it struggled, and I think we've got
Speaker 1: They deferred people's wages too, so it could keep going,
Speaker 1: and and you know, people really pulled together to try
Speaker 1: and get this going. And then I think that there
Speaker 1: was two big breaks, as I remember, one was they
Speaker 1: discovered that it was watched by the right demographic for advertising,
Speaker 1: and even though it was only getting a few millions,
Speaker 1: I think it was the highest percentage of people earning
Speaker 1: over a hundred thousand dollars. I think it was second
Speaker 1: to Will and Grace, And so advertisers loved it, and
Speaker 1: so the channel loved it. So there was all that
Speaker 1: behind the scenes things going on. And then Steve Carrell
Speaker 1: became a huge film star, so it took off. It
Speaker 1: just and then it grew and grew and grew and
Speaker 1: got bigger and bigger, and it's still getting bigger and bigger.
Speaker 1: It's remarkable. Remarkable. Yeah. One of my favorite Emmy moments
Speaker 1: of all time was the bit you did with Steve Correll.
Speaker 1: What do you think about the fact that he never
Speaker 1: won an Emmy? Didn't he never How many did he
Speaker 1: get nominated for? He must have got nominated every year.
Speaker 1: He probably got six or seven, but he never won. Wow? Wow,
Speaker 1: Oh in your face, Steve Carrell? Um, Wow, So was
Speaker 1: I up against him? Then? When I won, I won
Speaker 1: an Emmy firm My Performance and extras, and I wasn't
Speaker 1: there and so and that's the one where John Stewart
Speaker 1: gave it to Steve. Also one of them is my
Speaker 1: fault that he didn't win. Now I feel bad. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was funny, that bit. I just I bumped into
Speaker 1: him on the red carpet and said, I've got an
Speaker 1: idea if you could, Um, I'm going to come and
Speaker 1: get my Amie back and you've stolen it. And he
Speaker 1: just went, do whatever you want and he just played
Speaker 1: it so so dead talents and so great and it
Speaker 1: was just lovely when he bent down and gave it
Speaker 1: back to me. He's great, I think. I you know,
Speaker 1: I have said this many times an interview, never to
Speaker 1: his face. I always wind him up in public. Obviously
Speaker 1: that's my job. But he's such a brilliant, hard working, conscientious,
Speaker 1: it's just a lovely man who is great. He's so versatile.
Speaker 1: And then we got to see him that he was
Speaker 1: a dramatic actor after all this was over. I mean,
Speaker 1: we really we really lucked out when we got Steve
Speaker 1: Garral for being our sitcom, didn't wed. Yeah, he's one
Speaker 1: of the best. Yeah, because you know he can be
Speaker 1: you know, he can be snide and rude and unaware
Speaker 1: and somehow you still have that feeling where you you
Speaker 1: just want to love him. I know, I know it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's some he's remarkable, but I still beat him at
Speaker 1: the end. Is let's not forget that o. The Gangster
Speaker 1: Chronicles podcast is a weekly conversation that revolves around the
Speaker 1: underworld and criminals and entertainers to victims, crime and law enforcement.
Speaker 1: We cover all facets of the game. Gangster Chronicles podcast
Speaker 1: doesn't glorify promotilstit activities. We just discussed the ramifications and
Speaker 1: repercussions of these activities, because, after all, if you played
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Speaker 1: Heart Radios number one for podcasts, but don't take our
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Speaker 1: Heart Radio app or wherever you get your podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Emilia on this podcast. I'm taking you on a search,
Speaker 1: a search for love. Four hard working Latina seeks cool,
Speaker 1: down to earth guy. It's hard out there for a
Speaker 1: girl to find Mr Wright. I have to meet a
Speaker 1: lot of Mr Wrongs. He'd invite me over to have
Speaker 1: dinner with his family. I knew he didn't tell them
Speaker 1: that it was transgender. Dating as a trans woman can
Speaker 1: be complicated, but there were other reasons. I felt like
Speaker 1: I couldn't always beat myself. And he's asking me things
Speaker 1: about my family, like my mom's in prison, my grandmother
Speaker 1: was arrested for working with the Mexican drug cartel. This
Speaker 1: scrumbs my love story. It's a show about the things
Speaker 1: we set up for and the bits of ourselves that
Speaker 1: make us who we are. Listen to Crumbs as part
Speaker 1: of the Michael Duda podcast Network, available on the i
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: What's up, guys. I'm a Shop Bloud and I am
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Speaker 1: Black Effect podcast Network. I Heart Radio, app, Apple Podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Um were you pleased
Speaker 1: with how Greg Daniels after the show? I thought it
Speaker 1: was great. I just thought it was great, how dense
Speaker 1: it was, how fast everything one, how many plot lines,
Speaker 1: and how written it was. I mean, I know there was,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot more writers, but I just thought
Speaker 1: he held it together, and he kept the heart and
Speaker 1: he kept the love story. It was. It was as
Speaker 1: funny as anything needed to be. It looked great, and
Speaker 1: it just got better and better. And I was so
Speaker 1: proud of him and everyone, and you know, and and
Speaker 1: Steve Correll. And then it was a joy for me
Speaker 1: to pop up in a couple just for fun like
Speaker 1: I would have, like I would have in my favorite show.
Speaker 1: I did a Simpson, I did a Family Guy, I
Speaker 1: did Sesame Street, and this was like this show, but
Speaker 1: I you know, you forget that it came from an
Speaker 1: idea you had ten years before, but it was this monster.
Speaker 1: And I felt flattered that they invited me to do
Speaker 1: a cameo in it. So that's how good it was
Speaker 1: that I felt flat out that I was invited to
Speaker 1: be in this show. That's how good I thought it was. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's that's crazy. I just watched last night. I had
Speaker 1: somebody sent me those two clips and you and Steve
Speaker 1: at the elevator banks doing your Chinese impression, and you know,
Speaker 1: I mean that was completely ad libbed, but but we
Speaker 1: just bumped into and I just thought, because it was
Speaker 1: the time when people were thinking of you know, I
Speaker 1: think it was already out there that Steve was leaving,
Speaker 1: wasn't it. And so I dropped in this little false
Speaker 1: thing for the bands where I said, any jobs going
Speaker 1: And I just thought that was a buddy little tease that.
Speaker 1: I mean, your show started with the idea of redundancy, right,
Speaker 1: and then in the American version, it really went on
Speaker 1: unlike anything that was happening in American television, like dealing
Speaker 1: with serious issues like race, homosexuality, healthcare, you know, et cetera.
Speaker 1: And as we talked about before, like that that unpec
Speaker 1: or the the woke culture as they call it now,
Speaker 1: well exactly. But you know, the thing is that again
Speaker 1: it's important that people know that the difference between the
Speaker 1: subjects of a joke and the actual target and the
Speaker 1: target was actually people pretending to be all those good
Speaker 1: things but not quite getting it right. We were taking
Speaker 1: the stab of this this false notion of just pretending
Speaker 1: to have like equality and fairness but not really. And
Speaker 1: you know, we did it to a certain extent in
Speaker 1: our version, and certainly David Frent, you know, was was
Speaker 1: fascinated with with difference, and he was had that terrible
Speaker 1: white class ancht about anyone thinking he was sexist or racist,
Speaker 1: and so he overcompensated. He was basically a good person,
Speaker 1: but he overcompensated. He panicks around different you know, around
Speaker 1: disability or color or anything like that. So that was
Speaker 1: funny because and we're we're laughing. We're laughing at that
Speaker 1: white ant. That's what we're laughing at. And of course
Speaker 1: people getting it wrong. You know, he's funny because he's
Speaker 1: getting it wrong. He's trying to do the right thing,
Speaker 1: but he's not a quick he's not a quick to
Speaker 1: do it. Yes. Yeah, one thing someone told me recently,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure you're aware of this. You know, American
Speaker 1: television was basically every show was set up with a
Speaker 1: love story. Right here are the lovers. It's you know,
Speaker 1: a will they won't they or a married couple, and
Speaker 1: then you have kind of the wacky boss or the
Speaker 1: wacky uncle who comes in for you know, ninety seconds
Speaker 1: of the show, may people laugh, and then he goes
Speaker 1: away again. But what your show did was you inverted
Speaker 1: it right. You made the wacky boss the central figure
Speaker 1: of the show, which meant you had to care about him,
Speaker 1: because before who cares what the wacky boss or the
Speaker 1: wacky uncle is thinking. But you put him central, and
Speaker 1: you put the love story in the corner, but you
Speaker 1: make that just as important. But it makes people want
Speaker 1: to lean in and and watch. That's exactly right. I
Speaker 1: said once that people tune in for David Brent, but
Speaker 1: they stayed with Tim and Dawn because there's a will
Speaker 1: they won't. You've got to stick around. You've got to
Speaker 1: see the result with that. It is something you want,
Speaker 1: and that's an emotional connection which is stronger than just gags.
Speaker 1: And I see it in all forms of comedy. I
Speaker 1: see it in stand up. You know, you you can't
Speaker 1: go and see someone who just hous a hundred killer
Speaker 1: jokes and they're great, but after about fifty you're looking
Speaker 1: at your watch and there's no reason to stay and
Speaker 1: you could pause, and you could, you know, but someone
Speaker 1: shambles out and they tell you a story about the
Speaker 1: terrible day they've had, and you're related. You can't leave.
Speaker 1: You want to know what happened. And I think that's
Speaker 1: what the love Story did, because we wanted to see
Speaker 1: if they got together, and I tried it a certain
Speaker 1: amount with them, you know, brength development, because I think
Speaker 1: people eventually wanted him to be happy, because I like
Speaker 1: the fact that people thought it was just awful with
Speaker 1: no redeeming features. But then you see that he's wounded too,
Speaker 1: and he's looking for love, and he's not a bad person.
Speaker 1: He's just been doubt a bad hand, and you know
Speaker 1: he made the mistake. He thought things like being on
Speaker 1: Telly would making feel better, and you know, he thought
Speaker 1: that popularity was as good as respect. It's just been
Speaker 1: lied to, really by television. And I think people saw
Speaker 1: that in the end, and they saw that actually he
Speaker 1: wasn't he wasn't that bad a bloke. He was all right,
Speaker 1: And everyone's wounded, everyone's looking for love, everyone needs a hug,
Speaker 1: And I'm glad that eventually people thought of him fondly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's crazy. This is just occurring to me now,
Speaker 1: So maybe this is a stupid idea, but you know,
Speaker 1: you talk about him just wanting fame and being you know,
Speaker 1: in the family of say a Big Big Brother contestant.
Speaker 1: But in a way, David Brent actually had more reality
Speaker 1: right than than a real person on one of those shows,
Speaker 1: because you eventually got to see the inside of David Brent,
Speaker 1: and those guys on Big Brother you don't ever see
Speaker 1: the inside, no you don't. And also what happened with
Speaker 1: something like Big Brother is it started off like a
Speaker 1: quite a good social experiment where no one really knew
Speaker 1: how they were going to come across, not even the producers,
Speaker 1: and there was real drama. Then they started contriving it.
Speaker 1: Then they started putting in, As I said, people who
Speaker 1: were think they were already at their lowest there they
Speaker 1: had nothing to lose, they had no dignity to lose,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't even particularly interesting. You know, when a
Speaker 1: load of feral people are happy to run around and
Speaker 1: fight each other and take their clothes off, you think, well,
Speaker 1: what are we watching this for? Where's the conflict? They're
Speaker 1: happy with that? There's no just see what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: there's no there's no human interest story because it's like
Speaker 1: they don't care about themselves. They know what's happening. They've
Speaker 1: gone in there to get fIF demons to pay cash
Speaker 1: in on it, sell their story to the paper, and
Speaker 1: buy a house, and good luck to them. But I
Speaker 1: don't know why that it was no longer entertaining because
Speaker 1: it wasn't real. It's strangely reality, as you said, reality
Speaker 1: TV became less real than than a well scripted drama
Speaker 1: about reality, and so you know, that's what happened. I
Speaker 1: think over that time, what are you most proud of
Speaker 1: the legacy of the office? Oh, that's so difficult. That's
Speaker 1: so difficult to say. I'd say it was the first
Speaker 1: time I tried my harvest anything. I'm very proud of that.
Speaker 1: And I got addicted to that. I was sort of
Speaker 1: this guy that would cruise around and I did well
Speaker 1: at school because I was smart, and it was almost
Speaker 1: like I wore it like a badge of hon and
Speaker 1: I didn't need to try hard. And I realized that
Speaker 1: that's not a good attitude. And then, you know, and
Speaker 1: then I tried to become a pop star and failed miserably.
Speaker 1: And my mistake was wanting to be a pop star,
Speaker 1: and I should have wanted to be a songwriter. And
Speaker 1: so when I came to this later in life, I thought,
Speaker 1: I want to be a writer, director. I want to
Speaker 1: be famous for something. If if fame, if I'm going
Speaker 1: to be an actor and be famous, I'd better be
Speaker 1: famous for something. I better do something I'm proud of.
Speaker 1: And right in the Office, I knew at the time,
Speaker 1: and I knew in retrospect that that was the first
Speaker 1: time I had really tried my harvest at anything, and
Speaker 1: it was a great feeling. And I don't think you
Speaker 1: can have success without hard work. You know, if you
Speaker 1: didn't work hard, it loses a bit of its success.
Speaker 1: So that's what I'm proud is sold trying my harvest. Well,
Speaker 1: it's uh, I mean, you know, look at everybody who
Speaker 1: was involved in the American version owes everything to you,
Speaker 1: you know, working your hardest on something. Um, I'll just
Speaker 1: ask you one more thing that that at the end
Speaker 1: of the American Office, it ends to talking head by
Speaker 1: the character of Pam, and she is talking about you know,
Speaker 1: she thought it was weird that people who work in
Speaker 1: a paper company would be the subject of a documentary,
Speaker 1: like why would anyone want to watch us. But she said,
Speaker 1: you know, in retrospect, she feels like that they were
Speaker 1: a really good subject for documentary because there's there's beauty
Speaker 1: and ordinary things, and isn't that kind of isn't that
Speaker 1: kind of the point? And that was what Greg's perspective was,
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. I've always been fascinated with trying to
Speaker 1: make the ordinary extraordinary, just trying to take a tiny
Speaker 1: little story that you wouldn't think anyone's interested in, and
Speaker 1: and making people interested in it. And I remember when
Speaker 1: I was at school, I used to write and my
Speaker 1: teachers say, yeah, it's a bit melodramatic. And I realized
Speaker 1: that I was taking it from Telly and films, and
Speaker 1: and he kept going a bit more dramatic, right, And
Speaker 1: this really annoyed me. So I decided to try and
Speaker 1: do the most boring story I could, right just to
Speaker 1: annoy my teacher. I was like thirteen, And so what
Speaker 1: I did was my mom used to look after this
Speaker 1: old lady who lived near us, and when I was born,
Speaker 1: i'd go around. I'd watched my mom sort of make
Speaker 1: a tea and clean up and that, and it was
Speaker 1: boring for a kid. And I thought, I know what
Speaker 1: I do. I'll write about that right this feature a
Speaker 1: lesson and I remember the just writing exactly what was happening.
Speaker 1: And I handed it in and I've got it back
Speaker 1: and the teacher had given me an a and said
Speaker 1: much better. And I almost didn't get it. I did.
Speaker 1: I did y um, because I think he knew what
Speaker 1: I was doing, but he also knew what I was
Speaker 1: saying was the truth and that I I've done it
Speaker 1: from real life as opposed to a top show on Telly,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? And then I was
Speaker 1: dinna realize that ordinary life is the most fascinating thing
Speaker 1: we have. Everyone's life is fascinating to them and and
Speaker 1: if you look into it, it can be fascinating to
Speaker 1: everyone because it's it's unique and real and it happened
Speaker 1: and it was a life, and I think that's beautiful.
Speaker 1: And then you know, I've taken that on my new
Speaker 1: series After Life. It about the mundane things in life,
Speaker 1: you know, saving you there are distractions, and it's true.
Speaker 1: It's just true. Everyone thinks that you know what their
Speaker 1: their lives a bit boring and mundane, but it's not.
Speaker 1: It's it's fascinating. Well, I was not going to be
Speaker 1: overly nice to you until the very end. But your
Speaker 1: ability through all of your shows, obviously, and you as
Speaker 1: a person, your ability to find that humanity in people
Speaker 1: that you do not expect to be likable, is a
Speaker 1: great gift that you know you've given everyone. Blah blah.
Speaker 1: I don't want to sound too nice, but you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I love it. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: That's that is. That's lovely. Thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Yes, and good luck with afterlife.
Speaker 1: I cannot wait to watch it, and thank you man,
Speaker 1: and enjoy a drink on me tonight. I'm going to
Speaker 1: have one now. I'm sure some of the residuals that
Speaker 1: that we made it just just something that we pay,
Speaker 1: okay to there you nothing but the greatest champagne, full day,
Speaker 1: every day on top. All right, thanks mam, all right, cheers, alright,
Speaker 1: bye bye bye. That is a rap on Ricky Gervais. Ricky,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me. I hope it
Speaker 1: was worth your time, if for no other reason than
Speaker 1: to find out that Steve never won an Emmy. I'm
Speaker 1: very pleased that I could provide that level of joy
Speaker 1: for you to the rest of you as always. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for joining me, and don't forget to
Speaker 1: subscribe to The Office Deep Dive on your podcast app.
Speaker 1: Do your so that you and I can keep well
Speaker 1: diving deeper. I hope you have a great day and
Speaker 1: I will see you again next Yeah. The Office Deep
Speaker 1: Dive is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner,
Speaker 1: alongside our executive producer Langley. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer,
Speaker 1: our producer is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor is
Speaker 1: Diego Tapia. My main man in the booth is Alec Moore.
Speaker 1: Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by my great
Speaker 1: friend Creep Bratton, and the episode was mixed by Seth Olanski. Hi,
Speaker 1: my name is Cassi Zachary and I am April Callahan,
Speaker 1: and we are fashion historian Yeah, and co hosts and
Speaker 1: the creators of the podcast Dressed the History of Fashion,
Speaker 1: which is dedicated to investigating the significance of dress from
Speaker 1: throughout history and around the world. And we are so
Speaker 1: excited to bring you a brand new season celebrating groundbreaking
Speaker 1: fashion figures and explain the history of everything from courses
Speaker 1: to blue jeans dressed. The History of Fashion is available
Speaker 1: on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever else
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. New episodes trap every
Speaker 1: Tuesday and Thursday. I'm Colleen would joined me the host
Speaker 1: of Eating Wall Broke podcast While I eat a meal
Speaker 1: created by self made entrepreneurs, influencers, and celebrities over a
Speaker 1: meal they once eight when they were broke. Today I
Speaker 1: have the lovely aj Crimson, the official Princess of compon Asia,
Speaker 1: Kidding and Assia. This is the professor. We're here on
Speaker 1: Eating While Broke and today I'm gonna break down my
Speaker 1: meal that got me through a time when I was broken.
Speaker 1: Listen to Eating Wall Broke on the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: on Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hello, Hello, Hi,
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I want to come through the screen
Speaker 1: and hug you. Hey, everybody. Jessica's are here, also known
Speaker 1: as Vanessa Abrahams on Gossip Girl. I am so excited
Speaker 1: to share my new podcast with you guys. It's called
Speaker 1: XO XO and it's a walk down memory lane all
Speaker 1: about Gossip Girl. I'll chat with some of the cast, crew, fans,
Speaker 1: of the show, and I'm just so pumped for you
Speaker 1: guys to go on this journey with me. All Right.
Speaker 1: I made Westwick, I played Chuck Bass Is this Michelle Tractonberg,
Speaker 1: I'll never tell, Okay, I'm Taylor Mompson and I played
Speaker 1: Jenny Humphrey. Hi, I'm sbashion Stan and I played Carter Ason.
Speaker 1: That was one of the reasons I liked the character
Speaker 1: Jenny so much, is that she was very relatable. The
Speaker 1: whole thing was such a choice for me to do,
Speaker 1: and I was just so thankful that people responded the
Speaker 1: way they did to what we were doing. This really
Speaker 1: was just like wonderful. I like have like warm feelings inside.
Speaker 1: I'm giving you air hugs. Listen to XO so on
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts.