1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of The Giants Little Podcast, brought 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: to you by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants, 3 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: coming to you from the Hackensack Marina Hill Podcast Udio. 4 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: Keep getting better. The Giants Avenue head coach John Harbaugh 5 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: will be the giants next head coach in twenty twenty 6 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: six and moving forward, and no one has been more 7 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: on top of this story. His official title is Calmness 8 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: for the Athletic but now I think it has to 9 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: be NFL Insider Reporter Sleuth. That's a long time New 10 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: York based sports reporter, Ian O'Connor. 11 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 2: Ian. 12 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: Good to see my friend, and this has been a 13 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: heck of a week for you, buddy, John. 14 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:35,959 Speaker 2: Thanks great to be with you. Thanks for that introduction. 15 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: Yet Collins get a bad rap for not really being reporters, 16 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 2: But I was always a reporter before I was a 17 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 2: column I know you are tried not to forget that, 18 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 2: so it applied here. But as obviously a great, great 19 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 2: uh situation here for the New York Giants to hire. 20 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 2: At the time of the hiring, I think he's the 21 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 2: most accomplished person to ever get this job. The Giants says, 22 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: you know, I've never hired a Super Bowl winning coach, 23 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 2: and so this is a monumental moment for the franchise. 24 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's funny. I wrote the same thing, 25 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: you know for the website, and I think Dan Reeves 26 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: is probably the second closest right having made it the 27 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: three Super Bowls, but no one else had ever won one. 28 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: So I'm with you. And look, this might sound like 29 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: this simplest question with the easiest answer, but maybe you 30 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: have something a little bit more. Why was John Harbaugh 31 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: such an obvious target for the Giants to go all 32 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: in on the way they did? 33 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: They say John, I think the Giants would have felt 34 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 2: the same way about Mike Tomlin, except Tomlin was not 35 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: going to make himself available to coach in twenty twenty six. 36 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 2: And I think the Giants did more homework on Harbaugh 37 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 2: because they had maybe some intel on that. But if 38 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 2: it was just a guess that Harbaugh would be the 39 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 2: most likely AFC North Titan to be available, they were right. 40 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 2: And so they did work on John before he was fired. 41 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 2: And John was aware that it was possible he'd be 42 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 2: let go. I know when he walked into the building 43 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 2: in Baltimore that day, he thought he would be retained 44 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: for a nineteenth season. Obviously he wasn't. But before that day, 45 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 2: he had looked at some of the possible openings out 46 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 2: there around the league, and he had the Giants at 47 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 2: the top of his list even before Joe Shane made 48 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: that first phone call. So the Giants had Harbor at 49 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: the top of their list. John had the Giants at 50 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 2: the top of his list. So it was a good marriage. 51 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 2: From the start. It looked like a perfect match. And 52 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 2: obviously we'll see how it plays out going forward. 53 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so let's go here. You talked about that, 54 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: I'll use the quote full core press that the Giants 55 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: put on to get Harbaugh, and you talked about how 56 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: they've kind of done walk on him before he was 57 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 1: even let go. You wrote about this extensively. Ian take 58 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: us to the process of how the Giants attack this 59 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: with every part of their organization, from ownership down to 60 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: try to land John Harbaugh. 61 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 2: Obviously, John, I can't really speak to what the Titans 62 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 2: and the Falcons and other organizations were doing because I 63 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 2: don't really cover them on a regular basis. The Giant 64 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 2: and so as a commist, I've been around the organization 65 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 2: for a long time and I think they did more 66 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: work on this one than any search for any candidate 67 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 2: I've ever seen. And again it started before Harba was fired. 68 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 2: And I think that's important because as soon as he 69 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 2: was fired, the Giants pounced. Joe Shay was making calls, 70 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: repeated calls to Brian Harlan, John's agent. I want to say, 71 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 2: in the first couple hours, Shane must have called him 72 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 2: three times, and it was it was go time right away. 73 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 2: And I think that made an impress I know it 74 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: made an impression on Harbaugh and his camp, and they 75 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 2: made it clear that they wanted him more than anybody 76 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 2: else by a lot. And I did talk to Harbaugh 77 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 2: after he was fired, and he wanted the Giants. It 78 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 2: was clear in my vocal. In fact, when I was 79 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 2: talking to him, and this was two days after he 80 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: was fired, he said we. He said, I think we 81 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: can win some games next year. He wasn't looking to 82 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 2: build with the Giants in twenty six. He looked at 83 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 2: the roster, he liked Art a lot, and he said, 84 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: I think with the players comic back from injuries, we 85 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: can win games next year. I'm not looking to rebuild. 86 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 2: And he said we, never making it a note of 87 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: that in which I noted in a column in The 88 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 2: Athletic and so yeah, the whole idea of being the 89 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 2: head coach. And he called them the New York Football Giants. 90 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: He got it. He pictured himself in that jacket, in 91 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: that cap, leading that team out of the tunnel. It 92 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 2: was very appealing to him. The history of the franchise, 93 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 2: the historical standing that the New York Giants have in 94 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 2: the history of the National Football League, all of that 95 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 2: stuff he got. Let me say this four years ago. 96 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 2: I was talking to him when the job was last open, 97 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 2: and I said, do you think your brother would have 98 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 2: interest in that job? Jim? And he said, the New 99 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 2: York Football Giants. Are you kidding me? Like he was like, 100 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 2: who wouldn't have interest in being the head coach of 101 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 2: the Giants? So he got it. He underst fans what 102 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 2: the Giants mean to the NFL and what the Giants 103 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: mean to New York. 104 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: And I think the other part of this too, when 105 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: you go through the reasons why John Harbaugh wanted the Giants, 106 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: a lot of it had to do I think with 107 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: the respect that people in NFL circles have for Giants 108 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: ownership and kind of how they went about this. Can 109 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: you just take us through that a little bit, hear 110 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: Ian and how Giants ownership played a role in getting 111 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: this done and why they made it appealing for John Harbaugh. 112 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 2: I'm not sure that Harbaugh had a much contact with 113 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 2: Steve Tish, but through the Competition Committee John Mara's role there. 114 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 2: I think Harbaugh had dealt with John Marra a number 115 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 2: of times on issues in the league and really came 116 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 2: away impressed with how he carried himself. And as we 117 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: all know, John Mara has respected a figure in the 118 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 2: NFL as anyone, and he is someone who in a 119 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 2: situation like this where you're looking at a top candidate 120 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 2: for a head coach, opening is a big asset for 121 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 2: the Giants because of the respect that John Mahra has 122 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 2: around the league and around sports in general. So that 123 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 2: really was a positive factor here in favor of getting 124 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 2: this deal done. It was Harba didn't have to be 125 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 2: it didn't have to be explained to him what John 126 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 2: Mara meant to the leade eg and how he was viewed, 127 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: because that's the way Harbaugh saw him, and that was 128 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 2: something that was a real asset for the Giants and 129 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 2: getting this deal done. 130 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: You know, and Ian you reported this, it was exclusive 131 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: to you. I believe that you know, Chris, John's younger brother, 132 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: John obviously dealing with some health issues right now. We're 133 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: all praying for his recovery and for him to get better, 134 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: but Chris had to kind of step in and do 135 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 1: a little bit extra with this correct And I think 136 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: Giant fans, and I'm sure you see it on social 137 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: media and you hear from Giant fans, they have a 138 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: certain impression of Chris Mahra, But I think people don't 139 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: realize that in leaked circles he's viewed a little bit 140 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: differently than maybe fans of New One. 141 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 2: Yeah. I always respected the fact that Chris went outside 142 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 2: the organization to run his own scouting service years ago 143 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 2: to be a GM of the New Jersey Arena League team, 144 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 2: the Gladiators, and then when he came back, he didn't 145 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: get the GM job that went to Jerry Reese, And 146 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,679 Speaker 2: so he's been in the background to some degree over 147 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 2: the last number of years. But now he's back in 148 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 2: the spotlight because of the pursuit of Harbaugh and how 149 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 2: he did go to his home Sunday before everything got started. 150 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 2: Really and that first visit that Harbaugh had with a 151 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 2: team official of that magnitude with any of the organizations 152 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 2: that were interested in him, that really made a difference. 153 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 2: Chris Maras sort of he laid out a plan of 154 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: how the organization was really going to support John as 155 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 2: the head coach. And it was a really good meeting. 156 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 2: They had lunch, and I've been at Harbaugh's house. It's 157 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 2: a very nice house, sort of off a country road 158 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 2: in suburban Baltimore. And I think that was a difference 159 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 2: maker in this process in a very big way for 160 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 2: the New York Giants. Tuddle up, get in here. 161 00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: If you're lined up here, you gotta go over the 162 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: middle with at the score great. 163 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 2: How do we make that happen? I don't know, Bud Citizen, 164 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 2: does it makes sense of your money with citizens official 165 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 2: Bank of ELI Manning? 166 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: What was that pitchy? And I'm not sure how many 167 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: details you have in terms of what that organizational support 168 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: would look like and why that pledge and what was 169 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: involved in it made the job so appealing for John Harbaugh. 170 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 2: I think that the Giants would give him the resources 171 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 2: he needed to win and personnel influence which he had 172 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,719 Speaker 2: earned through his eighteen years of winning in Baltimore, that 173 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 2: that would be there and not be an issue, and 174 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 2: that's certainly his salary concerns. He didn't have any salary concerns, 175 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 2: but if he did, the Giants would take care of 176 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 2: those infrastructure. Just organizational support, the collaborative nature of the building, 177 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 2: I think was a selling point that Chris put forth 178 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 2: and just a pleasant day and it was informal, but 179 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 2: that that really was a factor here because no organization 180 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 2: had somebody from ownership or management in John Harbaugh's house 181 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 2: at that point, and it just started things off in 182 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 2: a very positive direction for the Giants. I think. I'm 183 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 2: not saying that John Harbaugh isn't the coach of the 184 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 2: New York Giants at that meeting, doesn't happen, but the Giants. 185 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 2: It just showed you, John, how much out in front 186 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 2: of everybody else the Giants were because the Falcons didn't 187 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 2: have somebody in Harbaugh's house, the Titans didn't, the Dolphins didn't, 188 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 2: and the Browns didn't. The Giants did, and they ended 189 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 2: up with the head coach. 190 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: You mentioned the collaborative nature of the organization, how that 191 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: was appealing to John Harbaugh, and you mentioned how Joe Shane, 192 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: very early in this process, was on the phone with 193 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: Harbaugh's agent trying to get it to him. As soon 194 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: as he was let go. He had conversations with Harbor directly. 195 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: What was it about Joe Shane, his approach and the 196 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: way he works with people that made him appealing as 197 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: someone that John Harball would want to work with going forward. 198 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: And what of the role did Joe Shane play in 199 00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: trying to get this done. 200 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 2: I know, after his very first conversation with Joe Shane, 201 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 2: Harbaugh told me he liked him and felt he could 202 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 2: work with him. And I don't think he knew him 203 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 2: or knew a whole lot about him. And obviously the 204 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 2: record is what it is the last three years, so 205 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 2: there are questions about that. But I know that Harba 206 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 2: looked at the roster and some of the pieces that 207 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 2: Shane had acquired and liked them, and liked those pieces 208 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 2: and thought he could win games. And I just think 209 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 2: getting to know Joe Shane and the fact that Joe 210 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 2: was on the Steve Tish private jet that went down 211 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 2: to Baltimore to pick up John Harbaugh and just to 212 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 2: spend another hour and a half with him two hours, 213 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 2: even though Harbaugh was going to be nine hours with 214 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 2: the Giants later that day. That showed something to the coach. 215 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 2: And so I just think it was getting to know 216 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 2: each other. And I'm sure that Joe Shane also assured 217 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 2: John and that, Hey, don't worry, we're going to work together. 218 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 2: You're going to have some influence over the roster. You've 219 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 2: earned that. And and listen, the Giants, whatever they're paying 220 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 2: John Harbaugh, let's say it's in the neighborhood of twenty million. 221 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 2: That's what I believe it to be. It wouldn't make 222 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 2: any sense to bring Harba into this organization after eighteen 223 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 2: years of winning one hundred and eighty regular season games, 224 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 2: thirteen playoff victories, eight on the row, which is an 225 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 2: NFL record, and say, you have no say over who's 226 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 2: going to pee on your team. So I think and listen, 227 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 2: John Harbot has had good partnerships with his GMS Ozzie Newsom, 228 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 2: one of the best to ever do it, Eric Tacosta 229 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 2: one of the best in the league. He likes being 230 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 2: a part of partnerships that produce winning teams, and I 231 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 2: think he sees the potential for that with Joshane. 232 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, you had a specific question right where if John 233 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: Harbaugh wants to draft one player at five and Joshane 234 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: maybe prefers another, they had enough conversations with ownership, Joe Shane, 235 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: and the whole management group that, look, if that happens, 236 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: we have enough of a collaborative process where this will 237 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: be worked out and everyone's going to be happy. 238 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 2: We saw it in play, as you know, John, with 239 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 2: the Jackson Dart drafting, and appeared that Brian Dable was 240 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 2: more in favor of it than Joe Shane. And Joe 241 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 2: Shane has taken some hits for that. And I don't 242 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 2: know how you look at it, but I've been covering 243 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 2: sports in this market for forty years. I always if 244 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 2: the GM makes the move and acquires the player, I 245 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 2: don't care who liked him more, who didn't. You made 246 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 2: the move. He's your player. Now. You get the credit 247 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 2: if it works out, and you get the blame if 248 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 2: it doesn't. So far, Jackson Dart looks like a guy 249 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 2: who's going to work out in a pretty big way. 250 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 2: So let's assume that Brian Dable wanted him more than 251 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 2: Joe Shane did, but Joe listened to his head coach 252 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 2: and said, Okay, you want that player, he's your quarterback, 253 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 2: let's go get him, and he made the move to 254 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 2: trade up to get Jackson Dart. To me, that's a 255 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 2: positive for Joe Shane. That's not a negative. And if 256 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 2: you're John Harbu and I know he looked at it, 257 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 2: he's like, Okay, here was a situation where it looked 258 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 2: like Dabel wanted Dart more than Shane did. But guess what, 259 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 2: Joe Shane listened to his head coach and he made 260 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 2: the move and it worked out. So if he's going 261 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 2: to listen to Brian Dave, all chances are he's certainly 262 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 2: going to listen to John Harbaugh. A. 263 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: By the way, I'm with you. The idea that a 264 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,839 Speaker 1: GM would pick his quarterback of the future and as 265 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:12,719 Speaker 1: a player that he didn't like and straight up in 266 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: the first round of that player was always just ridiculous 267 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: to me, like that, that's not how the NFL works. 268 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: So I'm absolutely with you on that. You mentioned Jackson Darts. 269 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 1: Why don't we go there next? What makes him from 270 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: your conversations with John appealing as a guy that can 271 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: be his quarterback, which obviously is maybe the most important 272 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: position in all Sports. 273 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 2: Well, Harbaugh certainly used to having in recent years at 274 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,439 Speaker 2: dual threat quarterback who's very good, and Lamar Jackson arguably 275 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 2: became the best quarterback in the league as a two 276 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 2: time league MVP, with some postseason disappointments. So it's interesting 277 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 2: because John Harbor, though he doesn't have a quarterback's background, 278 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 2: he's won a Super Bowl with a pure pocket passer 279 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 2: and Joe Flacco, and then he developed a dual threat 280 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 2: quarterback into arguably the best player in the league. And 281 00:13:55,880 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 2: so he's had experience with all kinds of quarterbacks, different styles, 282 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 2: and but I think he his recent experience with Jackson 283 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 2: will help him with Dart, a guy who can beat 284 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 2: you with his legs and his arm. Of course, you 285 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 2: got to figure out, okay, when do we use those legs, 286 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 2: and we need to protect you so you can play 287 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 2: seventeen games, and that's something that John, with his experience 288 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 2: in the league, I think we'll be able to get 289 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 2: done with Jackson Dart. But liked his confidence, the way 290 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 2: he carries himself. Obviously, really all the tools are there. 291 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 2: You'll look at and how did this guy fall to 292 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 2: what twenty five in the draft? And hey, Aaron Rodgers 293 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 2: fell to twenty four. He became a first ballot of 294 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 2: Hall of Famer. It doesn't really matter where you're drafted. 295 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 2: Tom Brady one hundred and ninety ninth in the draft, 296 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 2: the greatest to ever do it. So so I think 297 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 2: I know he looked at the video. I don't know 298 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 2: one thing. I don't know, John. Maybe this is a 299 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 2: question I'll ask him at some point. Did he like 300 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 2: Dart better than cam Ward when he looked at both 301 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 2: on tape? I know he liked both of them. I'm 302 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 2: not sure if he gave Dart the edge, maybe Ward 303 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 2: the edge and just like the Giants job better. But 304 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 2: that's a question that needs to be asked at some point. 305 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 2: But he definitely thought he could win a lot of 306 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 2: games with Jackson Dart going forward, and that was a 307 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 2: big part of why he decided to take this job. 308 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: And that was another part of your story that you know, 309 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: this isn't a deal, and you mentioned it earlier in 310 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: the interview where he thinks this is a two or 311 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: three year project. Ian with this roster, he seems to 312 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: think that they can win games this year. You know, 313 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: maybe we're not talking super Bowl or anything like that, 314 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: but this can be a good competitive team that's competing 315 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: for a playoff spot this year. 316 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 2: And that's the way he looked at it again. Neighbors 317 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 2: coming back, skataboo coming back. I already have a left tackle. 318 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 2: I've got some running backs, some playmakers. I got a 319 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 2: quarterback who looks like he's going to be a really 320 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 2: good player in this league. I've got pass rushers. Obviously, 321 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 2: the Giants have some holes, and he recognized that looking 322 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 2: at the film of a four and thirteenth team, you're 323 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 2: going to see some things that need to failsle But 324 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 2: he had a long time scout he trusts look at 325 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 2: the Giants tape, look at their roster, the cap situation, 326 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 2: and got some positive reviews from that person. And John 327 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 2: himself what he saw. And he told me at one point, 328 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 2: after looking at the tape, I said, Hey, is there 329 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 2: anything that's concerning you? He said, well, yeah, obviously there's 330 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 2: some things, but he said, I can work on those things, 331 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 2: but there is a lot to be excited about. Those 332 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 2: were his exact words after looking at tape some tape 333 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 2: anyway of the twenty twenty five Giants. So he certainly 334 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 2: liked it enough, thought it had enough potential to take 335 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 2: this job, believing that twenty twenty six is not really 336 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 2: a rebuilding year. 337 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: A few more coming here for you and O'Connor. Excellent 338 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: comments for the athletic. No one's covered the giants hiring 339 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: of John Harbaugh better than him. Gihnts Little podcast brought 340 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: you by Citizens Official Bank of the Giants from game 341 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: day celebrations to your everyday financial needs. Big Blue Fans 342 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: get the most out of every moment with Citizens Learn 343 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: more citizens bank dot com slash Giants Aritian. You know 344 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: you talked about him getting good feedback from a scout. 345 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: It seems like he's gotten a lot of good feedback 346 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: from a lot of different people about the Giants. And 347 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: whenever you do want to take one of these jobs, 348 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: you're going to talk to a lot of people around 349 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: the league in and I you with some of this 350 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: reporting other people. Some of it that he had a 351 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: conversed with Eli Manning, that he reached out to Eli 352 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: through Peyton. I think Gary Myers had that one. I 353 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: fire recall correctly, he talked to Tom Coughlin. He even 354 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: had a conversation with Brian Dable and Ian This might 355 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: be the first time ever that I've heard of a 356 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: coach that was fired within the previously two months by 357 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: an organization. Get on a call with the guy that's 358 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 1: going to take his job and be like, no, you 359 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: should take this job. It's a great organization, it's an 360 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: awesome place to work. I'm not sure I've ever heard 361 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: of that before. 362 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 2: I'd beat either. And yeah, I think you're right John, 363 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 2: and listen, I Dables. Also he wants to be a 364 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 2: head coach again. So I think he's shown, hey, I'm 365 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 2: a reasonable person. I know what the record was. I 366 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 2: want owners to realize as I'm a team player and 367 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 2: if I can help, I'm going to help. And I 368 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 2: think it's a good idea to do it. So I 369 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 2: think he gave a very strong Scotter report on Dart 370 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 2: and on John Mara and Steve Tish. What he said 371 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 2: about Joe Shane, I don't know, to be honest with you, obviously, 372 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 2: Joe Shane fired him so and really actually John Aaron, 373 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 2: Steve Tiss fired him so, and he gave a positive 374 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 2: review on those gentlemen. So what he said about Joe say, 375 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,959 Speaker 2: And I don't know. But Harbaugh also understands that the 376 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 2: context there, it needs to be applied. And so John 377 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 2: did his research on everyone, on the owners, on Joe Shane, 378 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 2: on the players, on assistant coaches, and he really talked 379 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 2: to a lot of people. It wasn't just some of 380 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 2: the names we heard, like Eli Manning. He was talking 381 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 2: to a lot of people around the league about everybody 382 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 2: he was going to work with. But in his heart 383 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: from day one when he got fired, and listen, I 384 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 2: was doing a funny thing on X where I was 385 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 2: putting a golf leader board up much every other day 386 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 2: right the John Harbaugh invitation, I had the Giants in 387 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 2: the league every day, but I had the Falcons and 388 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 2: Titans like a shot behind. Honestly, I felt like the 389 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 2: Giants had a five shot league the whole time, because 390 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 2: in talking to him tech thing, it ever felt like 391 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 2: anybody else had a real chance. I hate to say 392 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 2: that because I don't want to tick off Falcons fans 393 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 2: and Titans fans, but I think he just wanted to 394 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 2: be the head coach in the New York Giants. 395 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: You know, I mentioned the conversation with Tom Coughlin. Should 396 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: Giant fans view this ian the same way they viewed 397 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: the Giants? Bringing Coughlin to kind of settle the organization 398 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: and just create an identity for the building and the team, 399 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 1: the same way Coughlin did when he came in to 400 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: replace Jim Fossil in two thousand and four. 401 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 2: Now I think it's listen, Darius Slayton said it. We 402 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 2: need a coffin asked person to come in here and 403 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 2: be this head coach. And it's still some discipline and accountability. 404 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 2: And I would say the Giants need Horrible even more 405 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 2: than they needed Coughlin, because back then the Giants have 406 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 2: gone to the super Bowl, what four years? But wear 407 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 2: that now You're right, the drought here fourteen year. There's 408 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,360 Speaker 2: really and a lot of losing in those fourteen years, 409 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 2: a couple of winning seasons, but it's it's been a 410 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 2: long time, and so I think this is again doing 411 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 2: this for four decades. I cannot remember a bigger hire 412 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 2: for the New York Giants in this one. I actually 413 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 2: think this is bigger than Coughlin and more important. And frankly, 414 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 2: Harbaugh's record is better than Coughlin's was in terms of 415 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 2: winning percentage and having the Super Bowl. Coughlin did a 416 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 2: great job in Jacksonville, but John's record is better and 417 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 2: so it's certainly arguable that he is the best coach 418 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 2: at the time of the hiring that the New York 419 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 2: Giants have ever hired. 420 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: You know, you know, I think you're uniquely qualified to 421 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 1: answer this question. I'm not sure there's another reporter on 422 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,199 Speaker 1: this planet that has as close of a relationship with 423 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:44,239 Speaker 1: the Giants organization and the Horror and John Harbaugh as you. 424 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: So I'm going to ask you this, Why do you 425 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: think the person and coach John Harbaugh is and the 426 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: organization that the Giants are match. Why does it fit? 427 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: Why do you think this is going to work? The 428 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: appreciation for the history of the league and their play 429 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: centate John wants to be an historical figure. The Giants 430 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: are already a major part of the league's history, and I 431 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: think they just have that feeling and that desire to 432 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 1: make more history. And I do think, though he did 433 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: not say this, but I certainly got the mistake sense 434 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: that John Harbaugh understood that being the coach of the 435 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: Giants and the New York Giants is different. If you 436 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: win a championship, it's different than winning one would say 437 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: the Arizona Cards. It just this, And so the. 438 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 2: Titans and the Falcons had interesting things about them, but 439 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,959 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, there's something different about 440 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 2: the Giants job and understanding. If he wins the second ring, 441 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 2: first off, he'd be the first guy to ever do that, 442 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 2: to win Super Bowls to two different franchises, So what 443 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 2: does that do for your legacy? And also when you 444 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 2: do it in New York. We all know Mark Messier 445 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 2: won five Stanley Cups in Edmonton. The one everyone talks 446 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 2: about is the one he wanted New York in nineteen 447 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 2: ninety four. So Hardball has an understanding of all of that. 448 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 2: And the Giants needed a CEO leader. They needed a 449 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,959 Speaker 2: disciplinarian with instant credibility. The moment he walks into that 450 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 2: locker room, Abdul Carter and everyone else will respect John Harbaugh. 451 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 2: So that is exactly what they needed. And John understood 452 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 2: that if you want to know how to manage two 453 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,479 Speaker 2: minutes of crunch time football, I'm your man. But if 454 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 2: you're wondering about a long term financial. 455 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 1: Plan, you should talk to citizens. 456 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 2: Hey, I can also talk long care. I'd like to 457 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 2: learn about Amillia routine. Yes, I knew I could help 458 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 2: make sense of your money with citizens. 459 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: I think was twenty sixteen. You had the great article 460 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: about the harbor and under competition and stuff like that. 461 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 2: If I remember correctly, I think was right ten years ago. 462 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: So it was terrific stories. You have a really good 463 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,199 Speaker 1: feel about everything he's about for giant fans that you 464 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: know Ravens from the AFC. You seem a national TV 465 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: but you're not follow him on every day. What are 466 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: the tenants some of the core principles that you were 467 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: going to see in a John Harbaugh led team that 468 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: John fans will look forward to. 469 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 2: Its unbelievably competitive. Obviously the Harbaughugh family, that's how they are. 470 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 2: When I went to his home ten years ago, we 471 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 2: started out by shooting baskets. He had this nice basketball 472 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 2: court and I was making a lot of shots, and 473 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 2: he was missing a lot of shots, and I could 474 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 2: tell he was getting he was getting angry, and I'm 475 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,199 Speaker 2: going to start this three hour interview with him in 476 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,719 Speaker 2: a bad mood. So I started intentionally missing some shots 477 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 2: and I told him that later he claimed I was lying. 478 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 2: So anyway, before we started the interview, he needed to 479 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 2: win something, so he took me upstairs to the He 480 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 2: had this shuffle board table with a scoreboard, and he 481 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 2: absolutely obliterated me. It was like ninety eight to two, 482 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 2: it felt like, and he kept running up the score 483 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 2: on the score. But I'm like John Bronnyart some point, 484 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 2: you don't need to keep score. You're winning fifteen to nothing. 485 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,479 Speaker 2: So anyway, that just gives you a sense of his 486 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 2: the way he approaches life and competition. But I think physicality, discipline, 487 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 2: attention to detail, and the belief that you can accomplish 488 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 2: great things because he beat his brother in a Super 489 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 2: Bowl and so he wants to get back to the mountaintop. 490 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 2: There have been seasons where it looked like the Ravens 491 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 2: were ready to win that second Super Bowl and he 492 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 2: never got it done. And I think he's really chasing that. 493 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 2: He does not want to retire with one ring. He 494 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 2: does not, and again to do it with two different 495 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 2: franchises obviously would make history, and I think he's prepared 496 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 2: to do that. 497 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 1: And I think he's a pretty flexible coach. And you 498 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: just look at how he went from Joe Flaccot to 499 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson, Right, could you have more polar opposite quarterbacks 500 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: than those two guys with their skill sets. He's had 501 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: to go through a bunch of different assistants and coordinators. 502 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: But when you're a great team, that's what people are 503 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: gonna poach your coaches, right. I feel like he's a 504 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: guy that's able to adjust to his players well and 505 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: bringing a staff that's able to extend his vision, even 506 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: if maybe their approaches aren't all the same, if you 507 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: know what I mean. 508 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 2: From the outside looking in, I think people would see 509 00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 2: Harby as a player's coach to some degree when he 510 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 2: had to establish his culture. When he first got the job, 511 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,479 Speaker 2: he had to take on some really established veterans ray Lewis, 512 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 2: ed Reed, Terrell Suggs. Those guys were set in their ways, 513 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 2: and I know, like Suggs and I believe it was 514 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 2: ray Lewis, they each had two lockers in the locker room, 515 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 2: and Harbaugh said to them, this isn't going to work. 516 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 2: This is a bad optic here. I know how great 517 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 2: you guys are, but everybody's going to have one locker. 518 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 2: And it took a while for Suggs to buy into 519 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 2: that later on. I know that was a bit of 520 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 2: a and also ed Reid, maybe one of the greats 521 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 2: of all time at his position. John and ed Reid 522 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 2: didn't really see eye to eye on some things, but 523 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 2: John wouldn't back down and eventually read conform to what 524 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 2: Harbaugh wanted. So he can impose his will on a 525 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 2: locker room. And at the same time we've seen him. 526 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 2: There's a great video about his conversation on the sideline 527 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 2: with Lamar Jackson where he's telling him, do you realize 528 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 2: like kids are around the country are going to be 529 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 2: wearing your jersey. You're changing the game. And I love you, 530 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 2: we love you. And so he's really good about putting 531 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 2: the kicker who misses the kick in Pittsburgh and he 532 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 2: goes up to him, puts his arm around. John Harbaugh 533 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 2: knows when to put his arm around guys that he 534 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 2: sometimes has to rip in practice or even during games. 535 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 2: He's very good at that. He coaches with humanity, and 536 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 2: I think that's important, particularly with his generational player. 537 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: And by the way, for fans that want more context 538 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: and everything he just talked about, you can find this 539 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: old autio. I think it's on ESPN dot com if 540 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 1: remember right Ian right where guys literally he's he's boarding 541 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: up Trell Suggs's second locker and Suggs tears the boards down. 542 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: He puts it back up. It's crazy because they were 543 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: all mad that they hired him instead of Rex Ryan, 544 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: so he had to like basically sell the defense on him. 545 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: You're not gonna have that thing here because there's nobody 546 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 1: with that type of history here Ian. But I think 547 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: it shows you and I think that's important for coaches. 548 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: Though we've been we were here, you know, following Joe Tory, 549 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: all the great coaches we've seen here in New York, 550 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: there are different ways to reach different players, and coaches 551 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: have to be able to almost individualize their approach to 552 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,239 Speaker 1: the seventy so guys that are in the locker room 553 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: once you get to the season, and that's what makes 554 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: it such a tough job. 555 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 2: Well, I think because he is adaptable and he has 556 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 2: he's basically seen it all in his eighteen years as 557 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 2: a head coach in Baltimore, and as you said, with 558 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 2: the different styles and quarterbacks and everything else, having different 559 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 2: coordinators and evolving with the times. And I think that 560 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 2: Harball has done a very good job of that. And 561 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 2: that's one thing that comes up from people who've asked 562 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 2: me about him, is they said, you know, he looks 563 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 2: a little different from Jim. Jim style now with the Chargers, 564 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 2: and then of course when he was at Michigan, and 565 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 2: that he coaches maybe with more humanity than his brother does, 566 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 2: and no knock on Jim Harball was obviously a great coach, 567 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 2: but I would agree with that. I think he's a 568 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 2: little more relatable to the young players, and so it'll 569 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 2: be interesting because as you know, there's so many different 570 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 2: personalities in a locker room. But he's really good at that, 571 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 2: and I think he's also he's a delegator, so his 572 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 2: coordinators are very Monkin coming in as the offensive coordinator 573 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 2: and assuming that's a done deal, and his defensive coordinator 574 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 2: is obviously going to be important because John does delegate 575 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 2: and he's more of a CEO overseer. But he's a 576 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 2: damn good one. And the Giants I believe are lucky 577 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 2: to have. 578 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: And you took me to my final question. The Giants obviously, 579 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: with the coordinators had to go through the Reney rual regulations, 580 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: They got to do a full interview process, all that 581 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 1: stuff with se who lands the jobs, and he's had 582 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: to go through a lot of different coordinators. As I mentioned, Ian, 583 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: when you're a great coach, your coordinators are gonna get 584 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 1: pucked right, they're gonna get head coaching jobs elsewhere. He's 585 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: had to deal with that, but he's done a fantastic 586 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: job in his time in Baltimore replacing those guys and 587 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: in a lot of times not even missing a beat 588 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: replacing one high level coach with another. Why do you 589 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: think he's been so good at finding such good assistant 590 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,479 Speaker 1: coaches and identifying up and comers that will step in 591 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: and do a good job. And what's important to him 592 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: when he fills out this coaching staff. The Giants have 593 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: a lot of assistants that are still in their contract 594 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: from the previous regime. I'm sure they'll have conversations. 595 00:28:58,560 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 2: About those guys. 596 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: What should we force Harbaugh tries to build out this staff, which, 597 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, for a CEO head coach, can really 598 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: make or break your tenure with a team. 599 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 2: He's had success with that and that's very important. You've 600 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 2: seen organizations, including really the Jets, I've seen struggle with 601 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 2: assistant coaches and coordinators and that's really hurt them over 602 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 2: the years, and the Giants at times. But I think 603 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 2: that there are people around the league who really want 604 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 2: to work for John Harbaugh because of some of the 605 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 2: things we've said here, and I think that's a factor 606 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 2: that will help the Giants. Monken has done it at 607 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 2: a high level, so there's experience there. And I just 608 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 2: think people looking for people obviously really every day a 609 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 2: treat basically treats every day like it's Game seven of 610 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 2: the World Series. And that's John Harbaugh, and he wants 611 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 2: people like that. He usually is successful in recruiting those people, 612 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 2: and I suspect he'll do the same thing this time around. 613 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: And anything we missed, anything you think else that Giant 614 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: fan should know either about this search about John Harbaugh 615 00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,479 Speaker 1: and what's coming next to the Giants. 616 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 2: I just think the overall sense that he gets New York, 617 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 2: even though he's never worked in New York. He's a 618 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 2: guy who grew up in Toledo, Ohio and Arbor, Michigan. 619 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 2: But he really does seem to understand what this franchise 620 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 2: means to this city and of course what winning a 621 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 2: Super Bowl here would mean as opposed to really coaching 622 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 2: anywhere else. And so I think he gets it now. 623 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 2: The proof is in the pudding, right and we'll find out. 624 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 2: But he is looking next year to win games. He's 625 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 2: not looking to rebuild. He's sixty three years old. He 626 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 2: does want to coach probably another eight to ten years, 627 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 2: but he doesn't want to wait. He wants to And 628 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 2: I do know that he believes he can win games 629 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 2: in the NFCS because I was saying to a number 630 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 2: of people in and around his camp that the Atlanta 631 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 2: Falcons really give him the best chance to win the 632 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 2: division right away, because in eight and nineteen just won 633 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 2: that division. And he's not afraid of the NFC. He's 634 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 2: I know that for a fact. 635 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: A horrible not afraid of competition. Really shocked or we're 636 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: all shocked. But like even asking, he seems to really 637 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: handle the media well, like it seems to come pretty 638 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: natural to him. So I don't imagine there's gonna be 639 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: an issues here with him kind of working the New 640 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: York media. 641 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 2: I think it will be the same level of criticism 642 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 2: that he faced or critiquing in Baltimore. It just there's 643 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 2: more of us, that's all. And he has to get 644 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 2: years to that. Listen, nobody likes to be criticized, so 645 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 2: I'm sure there are times he's been irritated by some things, 646 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 2: particularly since he was winning so many games, But that'll 647 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 2: be a little bit of a culture change for him, 648 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 2: just the number of media members who are present every 649 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 2: day covering practice and covering games, and so it is 650 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 2: a little different, and I think there will be an 651 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 2: adjustment period. But he's a personable guy and because he 652 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 2: does win games, he certainly should be able to handle New. 653 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: York in tell the people where they can find all 654 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,959 Speaker 1: your tremendous work with the Fletic. 655 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 2: So I think is doing sports journalism right now better 656 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 2: than anybody else. And on ex that at Ian underscore 657 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 2: O'Connor apostrophe necessary. Ian, you're the best. 658 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: Uh, it's been great following you during this uh journey 659 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: to ledge John Harbaugh as a Giants Next Day coach. 660 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: We really appreciate the time. Thanks so much, and uh 661 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: we'll see you at the press conference, my friend, look 662 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: forward to it. 663 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 2: John. Thanks. 664 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: That's Ian O'Connor on the Johns Little Podcast, brought to 665 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: you by Citizen's Official Bank of the Giants. I'm John Shmulch. 666 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us everybody. We will see you 667 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: next time.