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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, and

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Speaker 1: Chuck's here, and Jerry's here, and Dates here. It's here,

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Speaker 1: it everybody, and it's time to munch and chow down

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Speaker 1: on the short stuff. About pickles, well, the greatest things

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Speaker 1: ever invented.

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Speaker 2: We've talked about this before. I know it makes me weird.

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Speaker 2: I don't like pickles.

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Speaker 1: Does it make you weird? I just feel sad for you.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think most people love pickles. I have

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Speaker 2: found some support in my family, my brother's son, my

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Speaker 2: nephew are Noah nephew. I was about to call my

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Speaker 2: cousin because now he's a grown adult, it feels weird

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Speaker 2: to call my nephew. But yeah, Noah is married now

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Speaker 2: to his great wife Ellie, and they are having a baby.

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Speaker 2: And Ellie hates pickles just like me. Wow, And Ellie.

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Speaker 1: Like there's a stereotype of pregnant people wanting pickles and

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Speaker 1: ice cream.

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Speaker 2: That's true. I actually I should check back with her

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Speaker 2: to see how that's going. And also Ellie is equally

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Speaker 2: annoyed as I am with this other fact, which is

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Speaker 2: pickles are so ubiquitous on like a sandwich platter or

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Speaker 2: a burger platter or whatever that they don't even tell

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Speaker 2: you on the menu that they're gonna throw a big

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Speaker 2: stinky pickle spear on your plate to let that juice

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Speaker 2: infect like six of your French fries that you then

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Speaker 2: can't eat pickles. I tell people at restaurants, it's like

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Speaker 2: they're pickles, yeah, but they're on the side. I was like, please,

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Speaker 2: do not even include them on my plate because that

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Speaker 2: juice will infect either part of my hamburger bun or

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Speaker 2: like five or six French fries. And then I was like, cheese, dude,

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Speaker 2: get a life.

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Speaker 1: And they say, you want me to hold the pickles,

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Speaker 1: and you say, I want you to take the pickles

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Speaker 1: and hold them between your knees.

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Speaker 2: Oh great reference.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about pickles, chuck, not just how much

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Speaker 1: you dislike them or how much I love them, but

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Speaker 1: where they came from in the first place.

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Speaker 2: That's right. They have been around for a very very

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Speaker 2: long long time. Twenty thirty BCE is when people started

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Speaker 2: transporting cucumbers across Mesopotamia. And that is like, as we've

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Speaker 2: learned over the years, like a lot of foods that

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Speaker 2: we have now are variations on other foods that receive

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Speaker 2: that variation because they were trying to preserve it or

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Speaker 2: transport it somewhere else.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, those cucumbers, So it's in dispute. Our friends at

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Speaker 1: Mental Floss pointed out that it's possible that what they

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Speaker 1: were talking about were snake melons that later people transcribed

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Speaker 1: or translated into cucumber, but that it wasn't actually cucumber.

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Speaker 1: So we're not exactly sure when cucumbers hit the scene,

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Speaker 1: but they did come out of the Mesopotamian area the

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Speaker 1: Middle East. We do know that they probably hit Europe

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Speaker 1: in the early medieval era, and we know that pickles

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Speaker 1: came before cucumbers. People were pickling things as far back

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Speaker 1: as nine thousand years ago, according to ancient texts from China.

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Speaker 1: They just weren't pickling cucumbers. They're pickling fish, they're pickling

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Speaker 1: pigs heads, they were pickling the heads of their enemy,

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Speaker 1: anything you could pickle. They were pickling their livers, yes, definitely,

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Speaker 1: but they just weren't pickling cucumbers yet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's generally what we're talking about here, to

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Speaker 2: be clear, is the we know you can pickle all

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Speaker 2: kinds of things, but you know, the old pickle that's

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Speaker 2: on the plate that ruins the French fries. It either

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Speaker 2: came from the Dutch word peckle p e k e

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Speaker 2: l or the German perkle p o umlaut. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: that's not an umloud. I wonder if that's a mistake.

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Speaker 1: Pukel. It's gotta be puckle with an umlaut.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's a it's a little what do you

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Speaker 2: call that accent in French?

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Speaker 1: I think somebody fat fingered that one.

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Speaker 2: I think so, because I've never seen that in German.

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Speaker 2: So I'm gonna say it's supposed to be an umlaut

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Speaker 2: p o k e l, which means salt or brine.

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Speaker 2: And they use to be in the Victorian In Victorian England,

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Speaker 2: you know, pickles was something that you ate if you

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Speaker 2: had a lot of money, and they also served them.

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Speaker 2: They would pickle them in the house and then serve

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Speaker 2: them or store them rather and what's called the pickle

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Speaker 2: cast or c a sto r, which is they would

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Speaker 2: just kind of keep it as a centerpiece on the table.

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Speaker 2: And if you look up like an antique pickle cast or,

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Speaker 2: they're they're cool, they're beautiful. I don't know if you

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Speaker 2: saw any pictures I did. They look like sort of.

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Speaker 1: Like a.

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Speaker 2: Like a like a an oil lamp, almost like a

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Speaker 2: really ornate oil lamp.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what. I likened it too. It occurred

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Speaker 1: to me remember those old straw holders, glass cylinder straw holders.

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Speaker 1: You'd pull the top and all the straws came up

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Speaker 1: with it and you just pull one out. Yeah, that cylinder.

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Speaker 1: It reminded me of that. But you would have pickles

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Speaker 1: instead of straws.

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Speaker 2: And with and with like a handle, like an oil

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Speaker 2: lamp handle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: All the ones I saw had handles at least, right.

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Speaker 1: And you said that the pickle caster was associated with wealth,

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Speaker 1: and definitely was. But I saw on a site called

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Speaker 1: Back to the Past Collectibles they posted about pickle casters

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Speaker 1: and the way they said it. Pickles themselves were typically

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Speaker 1: associated with rural areas. So if you were an urban,

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Speaker 1: wealthy person and you had a pickle caster, you're saying,

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Speaker 1: I love pickles. Obviously I'm not making them myself, but

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Speaker 1: I have staff and servants that are making it for me.

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Speaker 1: Check out all of my pickles. That's how rich I am.

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Speaker 1: So it's weird that it was a country thing but

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Speaker 1: in the city it was a wealth kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that fancy cast or display had

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Speaker 2: a lot to do with that, definitely. But yeah, for

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Speaker 2: sure rule because you know people that farmed their own

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Speaker 2: stuff and canned and preserve their own things and still

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Speaker 2: do that kind of stuff. And you know, I've told

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Speaker 2: stories about my mom dragging me to the cannery when

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Speaker 2: I was a kid. Of course, that's the people that

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Speaker 2: are doing it themselves exactly.

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Speaker 1: You know who loved to pickle back then, the word.

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Speaker 2: R as far as commercial pickles that you can buy,

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Speaker 2: like when they became a little more ubiquitous and affordable HJ.

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Speaker 2: Hines What I was about to say, canned up, but

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Speaker 2: they were probably jarred originally. In eighteen sixty is the

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Speaker 2: first sort of widely available commercial pickled product. Yeah, And

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Speaker 2: in eighteen ninety three there was this giveaway of a

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Speaker 2: little pickle pendant at the World's Fair that year that

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Speaker 2: was apparently so popular it has gone down in history

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Speaker 2: as like one of the most popular marketing plays ever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I read about it in Atlas Obscura and they

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Speaker 1: said that the Hines booth was hidden on like the

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Speaker 1: second floor somewhere, and so Hines started giving out flyers

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Speaker 1: saying come get your your free memento. And it was

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Speaker 1: just such a hit. Everybody wanted a free pickle for

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Speaker 1: some reason, not even a real pickle, a little plastic pickle,

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Speaker 1: said Hines, a hunt that they were wor that the

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Speaker 1: floor was going to give because so many people just

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Speaker 1: swamped that place for so long. So yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: a really big deal. It put Hines on the map

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Speaker 1: like it as a household word.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we said plastic at that thing had to be metal, right.

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Speaker 1: No, it was a I can't remember what they called it,

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Speaker 1: but it was like a proto plastic. Oh wow, crumbly,

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Speaker 1: weird looking. It looked like it was whittled from wood.

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Speaker 1: Not a pretty pickle at all. But Rubell had to

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Speaker 1: have it and they'd attach it to like their watch

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Speaker 1: chain or something like that and be like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: this is my Hindz pickle chotchkey that I got at

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Speaker 1: the eighteen ninety three World's Fair.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a great time for a break. Okay, right,

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Speaker 2: we'll be right back with a chotchkey joke. All right,

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Speaker 2: as promise we're back, and I promise you a chochke joke.

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Speaker 2: And when I was in Mexico City. We went to

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Speaker 2: the Leon Trotzky's house as part of the fried Calo

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Speaker 2: Casa Azul tour.

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Speaker 1: I have a feeling I know where this is going.

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Speaker 2: You know right where it's going, because my friend Tommy

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Speaker 2: and the gifts in the gift shop said look at

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Speaker 2: all these Trotzky chochkeys, and that became a fun thing

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Speaker 2: that we said all weekend. Oh, I bet We said

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Speaker 2: that a lot, and we said one more margarita a lot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I bet so.

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Speaker 2: Pickles. H. J. Hines in eighteen sixty did his thing.

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Speaker 2: Klausen came around ten years later in eighteen seventy, Mount

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Speaker 2: Olive in nineteen twenty six, and the old stork with

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Speaker 2: the lastic pickle is the relative newcomer on the block

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Speaker 2: didn't start until nineteen forty two.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the stork who spoke like Graucho Marx. For some

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Speaker 1: weird reason, it's.

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Speaker 2: Because Groucho Marx was the hottest thing going back then.

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Speaker 1: I guess. So if you do, if you want to

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Speaker 1: make pickles, I've made pickles before, and I love making pickles.

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Speaker 1: It's like one of the like most verger things you

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Speaker 1: can do in your kitchen. No matter where you are,

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Speaker 1: and it's very very easy, depending on what kind of

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Speaker 1: pickle you want to make.

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Speaker 2: What are you doing.

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Speaker 1: I'm making salt brine pickles, which is called lacto fermenting,

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Speaker 1: because what you're doing is creating a brine that actually

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Speaker 1: encourages the growth of beneficial probiotic bacteria and they go

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Speaker 1: to town eating the sugars in the cucumbers and thus

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Speaker 1: preserving it, but at the same time putting out lactic acid,

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Speaker 1: which prevents like dangerous bacteria from growing in your pickle brine.

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Speaker 1: As long as your pickles are under the surface of

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Speaker 1: the brine, and they make little glass discs to weigh

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Speaker 1: them down, it's really neat. Then you can it's basically

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Speaker 1: put the thing in the fridge and leave it for

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Speaker 1: I think a few weeks, thirty days I think was

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Speaker 1: the was the minimum, and pull them out and you

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Speaker 1: have these strange tasting pickles. They don't taste like the

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Speaker 1: pickles you're normally used to because it's it's a different

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Speaker 1: way to make them than the stuff you buy off

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Speaker 1: the shelf at the grocery store.

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Speaker 2: All right, So that's the salt.

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Speaker 1: Brine, Yes, salt brine or lactose fermented.

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Speaker 2: All right, You've also got your classic dill. You're gonna

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Speaker 2: use white vinegar for those. And then all of these,

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Speaker 2: generally except for your salt brining method, have some kind

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Speaker 2: of vinegar, usually white vinegar. And then the spices are

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Speaker 2: where that particular variety of pickle get gets its flavor.

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Speaker 2: So in the case of a dill, you're gonna have

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Speaker 2: mustard seed, You're gonna have a dill obviously, hopefully some

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Speaker 2: fresh and some dried dill, that white vinegar, some white sugar,

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Speaker 2: salt obviously, and I think that's it, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can get really creative with pickles. You

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Speaker 1: can make them hot, you can make them garlic, you

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Speaker 1: can add whatever you want. But the basically the split

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Speaker 1: between different types of pickles whether you use a vinegar

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Speaker 1: brian or a salt brine, and the vinegar brine doesn't

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Speaker 1: allow for beneficial bacteria to grow, so it's not a

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Speaker 1: probiotic like lacto fermented pickles or kimchi or sauer kraut,

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Speaker 1: those are all salt brine. But the vinegar brian pickles

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Speaker 1: still have health benefits. They found that it actually reduces

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Speaker 1: or steadies your blood sugar and it can last for

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Speaker 1: a while. It's not just like you're eating the pickle

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Speaker 1: and your blood sugar's okay, and then you finish the

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Speaker 1: pickle and it goes crazy. It has like a lasting

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Speaker 1: effect from vinegar. So no matter what kind of pickles

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Speaker 1: you're eating, you're getting some kind of benefit from it.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, you also get your bread and butter pickle.

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Speaker 2: That's the one out of any pickle that sounds the

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Speaker 2: most appetizing to me, even though I think the name

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Speaker 2: of this episode will be pickles. Colon how to ruin

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Speaker 2: a good cucumber?

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Speaker 1: Because I love a cukee oh, I feel the exact opposite.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, get that disgusting thing out of my face

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Speaker 1: and listen.

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Speaker 2: What you don't like cucumbers? No, man, I love a cuke.

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Speaker 1: No. It's like, how can something be tasteless and taste

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Speaker 1: disgusting at the same time. It's a mystery. Wow, I

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Speaker 1: can't stand cucumbers. Maybe a cucumber of water if it's

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Speaker 1: got lemon or basil or something in it, but they

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Speaker 1: better not be actual cucumbers floating around in it.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, yeah, all right, you ever try it with

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Speaker 2: just a little pinch of sea salt.

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Speaker 1: Yes, they're gross.

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Speaker 2: You don't like them in a salad.

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Speaker 1: I don't like cucumbers at all.

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Speaker 2: That is remarkable, unless.

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Speaker 1: Again, if they're pickled, I love them.

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Speaker 2: You hate cucumbers and love pickles. I love cucumbers and

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Speaker 2: hate pickles.

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Speaker 1: We are yining yang for nothing, chuck, Well, maybe.

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Speaker 2: That's why we work. So the bread and buck bucker.

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Speaker 2: The bread and butter is the white vinegar, salt, white sugar.

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Speaker 2: I think more white sugar than the dill. And then

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Speaker 2: you've got some celery seed, some turmeric, some garlic, some onion,

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Speaker 2: and some red chili flakes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's loads of sugar and bread and butter. Because

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Speaker 1: the two flavor profiles are sweet and tangy. It's a

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Speaker 1: strange combination. But if you're in the mood for it,

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Speaker 1: a good bread and butter pickle is pretty good.

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Speaker 2: And apparently the tradition ruining your sandwich platter or even

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Speaker 2: worse when they if they wrap up a pickle and

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Speaker 2: a sandwich wrapper to go like beside the sandwich, unforgivable.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about, you know, if

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Speaker 1: you like, just like I know what you're saying. I

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Speaker 1: don't understand how it's unforgivable. It makes no sense because

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Speaker 1: pickles are so great.

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Speaker 2: That started in New York delis, specifically Jewish delis. Jewish

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Speaker 2: immigrants started in the nineteen thirties offering dill pickles as

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Speaker 2: a palate cleanser. Yeah, because that acid helps contrast with that.

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Speaker 2: You know, maybe that fatty meat sandwich you're eating and

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Speaker 2: it's got a nice little crunch to it. I do

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Speaker 2: like a crunch. But that's why I look cucumbers. They crunch.

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Speaker 2: I didn't think pickles. I thought they were less crunchy

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Speaker 2: because they're soaked in garbage.

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Speaker 1: No, that's the wrong count. You're so if you have

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Speaker 1: non crunchy pickles and you're buying them off the shelf,

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Speaker 1: they were baked or they were cooked essentially boiled in

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Speaker 1: a water bath. That doesn't actually boil, but it kills

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Speaker 1: off any beneficial bacteria that might have been in it

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Speaker 1: because it kills it with temperature, and it also makes

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Speaker 1: the pickles themselves flimsy. If you have lacto fermented salt

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Speaker 1: Brian pickles, there's your crunchy pickle. And those can be

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Speaker 1: done with little enough salt that you get what's called

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Speaker 1: a half sour, and it tastes much more like a

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Speaker 1: cucumber than a normal pickle does. So I think you

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Speaker 1: should try a half sour.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, still pickle, you know what, I'm gonna try one

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Speaker 2: because do those have vinegar at all?

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Speaker 1: No? They're salt brine as far as I know.

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Speaker 2: All right, maybe I should try that because the vinegar.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm on record is the vinegar is part

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Speaker 2: of the problem. I don't like a lot of like

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Speaker 2: white vinegars. Yeah, and like apple cider vinegar is pretty rough.

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Speaker 2: I do like balsamic vinegars and things like that. It's

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Speaker 2: very specific. I'm You're very complex and I'm picky.

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Speaker 1: Is that it?

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Speaker 2: And that's it? And I just want to good Lord,

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Speaker 2: get real at the end.

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Speaker 1: Is that how we're going to end the episode?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Chuck is needy and picky.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, then short stuff is out.

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