1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not supported by a postal carrying primate. Instead, 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: it's supported by the generous donations of our listeners on Patreon. 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 1: Visit patreon dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't you never know stories 5 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: of things we simply don't know the answer to why. 6 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: They're Welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Joe, 7 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:40,959 Speaker 1: joined as always by Devon and Steve, and this week 8 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about another kind of an international mystery, 9 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: wouldn't you say more than kind of? Yeah, it's definitely 10 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: an international mystery for us. I guess I mean either 11 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: are people in this world that No, that's not it's 12 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: still it's still crosses country lines no matter which way 13 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: you slice it. Hey, it's international, yeah they do. Yuh, 14 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: all right, this is it's got lots of murder intrigue. 15 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: You guys are gonna love it. And we're gonna talk 16 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: about the death of Alexander Litvinenko. First off, I want 17 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: to give a shout out to Rosie who suggested this mystery. 18 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: Thanks Rosie. Um. And so let's talk about Alexander Lipmandienko. 19 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 1: He was a journalist at the time of his death 20 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: living in the UK. But before being a journalist, he 21 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: was an FSB officer. That's a good question. The FSB 22 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: stands for Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation. That 23 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: doesn't sound ominous. Yeah, they're the successor to the the KGB. 24 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: And what did the KGB stand for? Oh, Christ, I 25 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: don't remember, you don't remember. It's been a while, But 26 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: reportedly the FSB is is not quite as brutal as 27 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: a KGB. Not quite, but they're not quite boy scouts. Yeah, 28 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: Litvinenko was still with the FSB, and he and several 29 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: other FSB officers publicly accused some of their higher ups 30 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: in the organization of ordering the assassination of Rospirezovsky, who 31 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: was a Russian tycoon. You've heard of those those famous oligarchs, 32 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: you know, the one the ones who wound up owning 33 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: everything in the nineties and they're super rich and stuff. Yeah, 34 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: he was unlike most of the other oligarchs, he didn't 35 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: have any allies with the Russian government. He was actually 36 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: kind of opposed to Yeltson and Boris Yeltson, who was 37 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: in charge in the late nineties. Still, this is pretty 38 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: Vladimir putin. That's interesting. Yeah, it's just yeah, that's always 39 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: interesting to me when somebody who like is in power 40 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 1: for a reason is like, but you know, screw those 41 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: guys that are the reason I'm in power, to make 42 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: it easier for me. Well, yeah, but he benefited from 43 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: the situation. They weren't directly the reason he was in 44 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: power as much as some other Yeah. Yeah. Oh but anyway, 45 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: that back to Bezovsky. Uh, the assassination wasn't carried out, 46 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: at least not at the time, though he did die 47 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: in thirteen. He decided to move to Britain for health reasons, 48 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: meaning he didn't want to get murdered. A lot of 49 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,679 Speaker 1: people were getting murdered in Russian around this time. A 50 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: lot of people left the Untry at this time too, 51 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: for that very same reason. Yeah. But in thirteen he 52 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: was living, he was living in the UK. He was 53 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: found dead in his home and there's somewhat suspicious circumstances, 54 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: and he was he hanged himself in his bathroom. It 55 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: kind of looked like a suicide anyway, and but he 56 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: might actually have killed himself because his life had really 57 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: taken a turn for the worst. He had been through 58 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 1: a series of lawsuits, lost a huge amount of wealth, 59 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: and so he'd gone from being mega rich to broke. 60 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: He had also it was known that he was having 61 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: depression issues. Yeah, he had much you know, a great 62 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: amount of time prior to that. Yeah. Yeah, so he 63 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: had depression issues anyway, and now he really had something 64 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: to be depressed about. Yeah, he was selling his possessions, 65 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: I understand, just to pay his legal bills. The corner 66 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: at the time still refused to rule the death of 67 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: suicide because, you know, because of who his enemies were. 68 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: So even though physically the physical evidence kind of looked 69 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: like suicide and he'd had a motive, but still, and 70 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: so it's still an open case because they ruled it unknown. 71 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: Is that right? Yeah? They did. I don't. So this 72 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: is one of those things that I just don't get 73 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: because you know, it's just going to fuel the fires. 74 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: Is I wish they would come up with a different term, 75 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: which is death by this but with questions? Does that 76 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: make sense? Yeah? I mean, you know, they could just 77 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: say probably suicide, but I wouldn't guarantee. Yeah, there's no 78 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: opinion put in there. I guess there's a problem. It's 79 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: a box that gets ticked as to the cause of death. Yeah, 80 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,559 Speaker 1: I think that the official terminology is open verdict, right, Yeah, 81 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: I know, I guess that makes sense. Yeah, but you 82 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: don't really want your corner's edit poral izing. No. But 83 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: but the problem is is that it then what was 84 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 1: the term that you just used again, Joe, Yes, open 85 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: verdict means that people always construe that as unknown and 86 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: all these things always get pushed into these cases. I mean, 87 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: we're not talking about Berezovsky at all here in the 88 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: grander scheme of the story. It's just one of those 89 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,799 Speaker 1: things that I notice about this, this corner, this process, 90 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: the British corner always bothers me. Yeah, but Berezovsky is 91 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: a bit of a footnote though. Yeah. But yeah, well okay, 92 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: if you're a British coroner and you're listening, I mean, 93 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: clean up your act all right or right? Associating email. Yeah, 94 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: back to Alexander Litvinenko, Well, they were doing the episode 95 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: about Yeah, that guy a little sidetrack there, So obviously 96 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: he didn't stay with the FSB. I mean, after you 97 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: accuse your employer government that kind of stuff here, Yeah, 98 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: are numbered. Yeah, he he became a journalist instead and 99 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: was critical of the government. He left Russia in the 100 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: year two thousand with his family and was living in 101 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: exile in the UK, working as a journalist. He wrote 102 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: a couple of books. The one called Blowing Up Russia 103 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: and the other one was Lubyanka Criminal Group, and they 104 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: were critical. You know a lot of a lot of 105 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: people have said that the Russian government eventually devolved into 106 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: into a gangster government. That's kind of a well known thing, yea, 107 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: through the decades. Yeah, yeah, before the fall of the 108 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: Soviet and they were a gangster government really, and uh, 109 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 1: you know those ours they were kind of a gangster 110 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 1: government and today they are so I don't know. I 111 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: was just keeping my mouth shut because I like being alive, 112 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: Mr Putin. That's a good point. Yeah, I like you, Ladimir. 113 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: You're very sexy. Yeah, when you ride shirtless on that bear, 114 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 1: just what I was thinking of. Yeah, we're we're hunting salmon. Yeah, 115 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: back to Alexander. In November two thousand six, Litvinenko became 116 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: suddenly ill in London and he was taken to a 117 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: hospital where it was discovered that he had polonium to 118 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: ten in his bloodstream. It sounds like a made up word, Yeah, 119 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: but apparently it's a real deal. But it's a very 120 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: rare radioactive isotope, which you're not gonna like, you know, 121 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: finding your average drug store. Lit Vinenko was hospitalized for 122 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: three weeks a little more or less, and then died 123 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: of radiation poisoning. Not a pleasant way to go, No, 124 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 1: I can't imagine you. So, so here are theories, and 125 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: there's basically three possible ones unless you guys have other ones. 126 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: But yeah, it was an accident, um, Litvinenko was playing 127 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: around with a little polonium and maybe he accidentally inhaled 128 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: some or got him on You got the polonium slinky? 129 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying, Yeah, something like that. So 130 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: there's the accident. You guys have any thoughts on that? 131 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: And it seems a bit unlikely. Yeah, it could have 132 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: been suicide. He got his hands on some polonium and 133 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: ingested it on purpose because Miss Mother Russia is so 134 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: bad polonium candy. Yeah, I don't know where he got 135 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: a drug story. I guess there's another possibility, which is 136 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: murder boys deliberate poisoning by by the third party. Um. 137 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: And there's a little bit of support for the theory 138 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: because several of Litvineko's associates had been murdered quite a few, yeah, 139 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: quite a few. Uh. And police interviews in the hospital, 140 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: Livineko said that he had met with two former KGB 141 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: agents on the morning of November one, two thousand and six, 142 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: which is the same day that he became ill. Quite 143 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: a coincidence there, And it turns out investigations prove it 144 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: showed that one of the agents, whose name was Dmitry Coughton, 145 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: had used a house in the car in Hamburg, Germany, 146 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: which was where he was before he went over to 147 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: London to meet with Litvinenko, and traces of polonium were 148 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: found in both that house and the car. So that's 149 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: kind of incriminating. And of course late Vineko had been 150 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: accusing Vladimir Putin and various heinous crimes, which we'll talk 151 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: about it a little bit. And so there was not 152 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: one of might saying, of course, Laddie had nothing to 153 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: do with this. Nothing. Yeah, nothing, again, I'm just going 154 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: to say mom on this, okay. So okay, So the 155 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: murder theory looks like to be the strongest, right according 156 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: to the British government. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and yeah, and 157 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: obviously it's caused a little bit of a cooling of 158 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: relations between Britain and Russia. They were kind of you 159 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: know anyway. Yeah, but but this, this story is actually 160 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: part of a bigger story which you guys may have 161 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: heard of. And I'm going to talk about the Russian 162 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 1: apartment bombings. Yeah, okay, yeah, in the early nineties when 163 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union fell eventually, of course, as you all know, 164 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: Borisieltson became President of the Russian Federation after Gorby Yeah yeah, 165 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: and then uh and he was re elected in nineteen 166 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: but by nine he was pretty unpopular. And we'll go 167 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,479 Speaker 1: on to the reasons for that a little later. But 168 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: but it was Boris in charge in nine and then 169 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: in August nineteen nine, Yeltson fired his prime minister and 170 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: his entire cabinet, by the way, and and then he 171 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: appointed a fairly unknown guy named Vladimir Putin to replace 172 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: his to replace his prime minister. And again Putin was 173 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: pretty unknown at the time. He was a former KGB officer. 174 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: Of course, we all know that, uh. Jelson also let 175 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: up be known that he preferred Vladimir to be his 176 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: successor as president. Of course, you know, I'm not sure, 177 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: how many how likely it was to happen at that 178 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: moment because Yeltson wasn't polling all that well at that 179 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: I'm right at that moment. So before we get too 180 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: far into because I know that people who are familiar 181 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: with some of the history will will know this. Gorbachoff 182 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: was the one who came up with para striker correct glastmost. Yeah, 183 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: that that whole economic theory and stuff like that was 184 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: just like open, like more open than he opened the market, right, 185 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: which didn't do good things for them at all. Well, yeah, 186 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: it was mostly out of yelts In his his economic reforms, 187 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: he talked about quote economic shock therapy and all that stuff. Yeah, 188 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 1: he he was going to fix what Gorby had messed up. Well, 189 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: I mean that the whole, the whole situation had been 190 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: messed up for years. I mean, planned economies never do well, 191 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: you know, I mean it was it was the problems 192 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: is that the state was propping up failing businesses because 193 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: no business could fail in the perfect state. But I 194 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 1: was I was trying to remember who did what. So 195 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: that's so that's the order that it went from. I 196 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: think that I think Garbage pretty much continued the planning, uh, 197 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: the planned economy, and and it was Elson who wanted 198 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: to privatize everything. Well, no, not exactly. So it was 199 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: because we were talking about Pere strike as that was 200 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: where Gorbachev was trying to allow the free market economy 201 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 1: to happen. A little bit simple, simplified version is that 202 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: the state still controlled everything, but you could now sell 203 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: to the market at a different price than what you 204 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: sold to the state. The state got the right price, 205 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: the good cheap price, but you could sell it at 206 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: whatever you wanted. But of course then people started getting 207 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: greedy and it started causing inflation, and everything got out 208 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: of hand. And then that's when Gorbachev obviously was super 209 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: up popular when inflation was through the roof and the 210 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: it's the ruble. Yeah, the ruble was, you know, worth nothing, 211 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: so then not quite, but that's that's a different country. 212 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: I think that was Germany in the twenties something like that. 213 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: But no, and then after that, that's when Yelson Um 214 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: came in and he changed some of it. He still 215 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: allowed some of the privatization, but they were still controlling 216 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: the markets, but you had to go through the actual 217 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 1: government first to get those contracts. To go through and 218 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: that's how a lot of the bribery and these all 219 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: of our situations came about. Yeah, essentially, and Yelson wanted 220 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: to privatize it essentially, you know, in the end, but 221 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: he still kept control within the governm. Yeah. But and 222 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: his plan to do so was to sell off the state, 223 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: all the state owned enterprises, which was a vast, vast 224 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: amount of wealth. And and so he he just had 225 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: every Russian citizen was given a voucher and I can't 226 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: remember how much it was so that they could buy 227 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: stock and these now privatized companies. But because of it, 228 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: because of inflation, and because of just the end of 229 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union, a lot of people lost their pensions 230 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: and we're flat broke. Almost everybody that was an ordinary 231 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: system sold their vouchers for pennies on the dollar, and 232 00:12:58,040 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: that's how and so they wound up all in the 233 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: hands of these quote unquote oligarchs but owning everything. And 234 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: this is why Yelson was so unpopular by the end 235 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: of nine nine, Yeah, because the economy is just in 236 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: the toilet, well it is, and all these people who 237 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: have basically grabbed all the wealth need time to the 238 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: economies and the toilet. The GDP dropped, and yeah, nobody 239 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: had any money. Everybody was flat broken, unemployed, and and yeah, 240 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: Yelson was not popular. Uh so that's that's the situation. 241 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: And so that's when he then brings putin in. Yeah, 242 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: so it pointed it was i think his third prime 243 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: minister in a pretty brief amount of time. And then 244 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: just right after that September. A month later, September, September four, 245 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 1: a very very large bomb went up in an apartment 246 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: building in the city of I'm probably pronouncing this wrong. 247 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: It's like boy boyen asks and this is the former 248 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: sub yet Unix. So the bill. You've seen those pictures 249 00:13:54,760 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: of those enormous concrete block apartments literally a block, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, 250 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: So that whole thing that blowed up, and a lot 251 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: of people were killed and was surprisingly nobody took credit 252 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: for the explosion, and certainly did seem to be an accident. 253 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: It looked like a deliberate bombing. And then four days later, 254 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: in September nine, another apartment block was blown up, this 255 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: time in Moscow, and then another one blew up in September. 256 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: On September sixteenth, department building the city of Volgadonsk was 257 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: bombed and you know, all two d ninety three people 258 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: were killed and more than thousand were wounded and or 259 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: maimed in these four separate bombings. Yeah, yeah, and everybody, 260 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: everybody in Russia was scared. It was like, you know, 261 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: terror on a mass scale, and nobody, no didn't knew 262 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: who it was that was doing it. And then on 263 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: September fourteenth, another bomb was found and diffused in Moscow. 264 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: Apparently a couple more were found around this time, but 265 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: I'm uncertain as to the exact dates. And then on 266 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: September twenty two, another large bomb was found in the 267 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: basement of an apartment block in the city of Ryazon. 268 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: It was defused before he could go off. And in 269 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: this case, there were witnesses who actually saw the guys 270 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: who likely were likely planted the bomb, And I'm not 271 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: sure if they saw them actually you know, bringing it 272 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: in or running away, or if they were to the 273 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: justice the guys that came by and rented the basement 274 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: space or maybe all three, because it's most of these guys, 275 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: most of these spaces they did cut people came in 276 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: and rented space and then trucked in all the all 277 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: the materials for the bombs and put them all together 278 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: and then and then left. But in this case they 279 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: had some faces, they had descriptions, and very so, very 280 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: shortly every vertical surface in the cnity of Rhizon was 281 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: covered with wanted posters with drawings of these guys. Uh. 282 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: But still the motive for the bombings was unclear until 283 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: the FSB and the Russian government said that there was 284 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: what is quote unquote a Chechen trail unquote uh, and 285 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: the bombings were almost certainly the work of Chechen terrorists 286 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: or Daggers standi terrorists. I mean, it's a very complicated 287 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: situation over there, um, you know, and chach Chestily has 288 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: kind of like at least about half the step of 289 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: churches is almost an anarchy, and there's all sorts of 290 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: guerrilla group running around, and there's and there's people from 291 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: Dagistan are operating in Chechnia. People from Chechen are operating 292 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: in Dagistan. And so for a quick bit of geographic 293 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: reference for people who may not know where Chechenia is, 294 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: because I didn't. I mean, I've known the name of 295 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: the country, but it never really logged in my brain 296 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: where the heck it was. It's about a thousand miles 297 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: directly north of Iran. It's in that neck of the woods. 298 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: So just to kind of give you an idea, I mean, 299 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: when it's a country that the Russian Federation is going 300 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: to war with, I expected to be in the far 301 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: north reach just for some reason. So that's why it's 302 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: on the southern flag. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is 303 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: um and there's there There's been more than one Chechen 304 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: war between them, and so this is the second one. Yeah, 305 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: it is. This is right about. This is what kind 306 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: of set off the Second Chechen War. And remember Vladimir Putin, 307 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: he now the prime minister. He gave a really tough 308 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: sounding speech at a press conference and any order of 309 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: the air, bad thing of grossny Chechena and that was 310 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: the beginning of the Second Chechen War. And of course 311 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: that was actually ordered by Yeltsen, but but Putin was 312 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: the one who actually gave the order. Did he look 313 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: like the hero? Yeah, he's defending the Russian people from terrorists. Yeah, 314 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: it's much like a certain man in this country a 315 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 1: decade or so ago did. Yeah, it's like you know, 316 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: Putin is still doing to this day. Yeah. Suddenly, Vladimir 317 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: Putin was a star it's popular, they want hugely. And 318 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 1: I didn't mention this before, but there was a presidential 319 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: election schedule for the very next year, two thousand. Then 320 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: when Boris Elton saw that Putin was writing so high 321 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 1: the polls, and Putin, the course was his buddy, he 322 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: decided he was at the time polling about two percent 323 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: approval ratings, which is basically none. Yeah, so he was. 324 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: He decided to abdicate in favor of Putin, So he 325 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: resigned at the end of December. December thirty one, Putin 326 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: took over as president and I guess what, he's still there. 327 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 1: He did swap. He did swap with the prime minister 328 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: for one short term before he came back in his 329 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 1: president again. And I assume that arrangement's going to go 330 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 1: on indefinitely. This is a dumb question. Is he's not elected? Yeah? 331 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 1: Do people run against him? Uh? Well, on paper, yeah 332 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: they do. I mean no, they do have sort of 333 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: real elections, you know. I guess there's there's all kinds 334 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,719 Speaker 1: of accusations of tampering. I mean it was I think 335 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: it was in the Ish range where he had an 336 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: election where he was trailing massively in the polls and 337 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: then one by some huge margin. I mean, so there's 338 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: all kinds of accusations of funny business. But the thing 339 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 1: is is that this this second Chechen War has begun 340 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: just before the election, and because he's now the star, 341 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: he just totally takes it massively. Yeah, which which works 342 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 1: out well for us see how him, But more on 343 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 1: that later. Um, well it works out pretty good for 344 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: Putin too. Yeah. So there you have at the mysterious 345 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: Russian apartment bombings of and there's several theories out there 346 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 1: as to who did it why. First theory the CIA. 347 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: This theory does not have a lot of support. There's 348 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: only one guy who's put it out there, and he 349 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: was actually sort of accused of being one of the 350 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: many organized the transportation of explosives to Moscow for those bombings. 351 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: His name was Adam Dukeshev. He actually doesn't cite any evidence. 352 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: So this theory that doesn't really have legs. You know, what, 353 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 1: do you guys think it's pretty convenient something? Yeah, I 354 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: don't know. We haven't blamed them in a while, Yeah 355 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: why not? Yeah? Okay, Um, so we'll put that theor 356 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: to bed. The next one is, and this is a 357 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: favorite with the Russian government, which is Chechen warlords or 358 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: rather actually say Degas Danny warlords who are based in Chechenia. 359 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: Just about a month before the bombings, the Chechen based 360 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: group called the Islamic International Brigade invaded the Soviet Republican 361 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: Dagistan in support of Dagistan separatists. A quick note here 362 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: for everybody is Chechnia is an Islamic nation. Yeah, and 363 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: not everybody knows that, but that's their their religion is. 364 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: That's where this is going. That's what a lot of 365 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 1: Wahabi Islam they're actually which is the brand, the brand 366 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 1: that's promoted by Saudi Arabia. So it's a pretty it's 367 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: a pretty what's the word I'm thinking of large, Well, 368 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: it's it's a widespread religion, widespread. But it's also a 369 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 1: very a very strict sort of interpretation of Islam. You know, 370 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: it's not like, you know, it's not like the kind 371 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: of the interpretation of Islam that you see and say Indonesia, 372 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: you know, where people are a lot we're more relaxed 373 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: about things, and it's like it's a kind of harsh 374 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: interpretation of it. It's also just societal Yeah, yeah, okay, 375 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: but that too Dagistan and Chechnia. The Russian army of 376 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: course put this incursion down hard and they up going 377 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: into tech you also doing a little bombing, and of 378 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: course people were killed, lots of things were broken. Uh 379 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 1: And reportedly one of the late one of the leaders 380 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: of the i B that's the International the Islamic International Brigade, 381 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: whose name was Iban al Khattab, vowed vengeance against Russia, saying, quote, 382 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: the Mujahadeen if Dagistan are going to carry out the 383 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: presals in various places in Russia unquote. But then two 384 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: weeks later he walked that back. I'll have to have 385 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: denied that his people carried out the bombings. He said 386 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: that he was fighting the Russian army and not women 387 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: and children, and so you know, he's made conflicting statements here, 388 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: but he denies, he denies that they had involvement with it. 389 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 1: And and I'm kind of generally speaking, when terrorists carry 390 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: out an operation like this, they're they're very happy to 391 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: take credit for it. Yeah, even sometimes when they didn't 392 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: actually do it benefits them, they'll say, oh, no, we 393 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: did it, we did it. I Mean, I feel like 394 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 1: we hear that a lot on the radio or in 395 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 1: these days where you know, they'll say there was this bombing, 396 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: and you know, these five have said that we did it, 397 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: and they you know, are vaguely maybe connected in one 398 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 1: way or another, but you know, it's kind of like 399 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 1: everyone's claiming it and it's like okay, you know, it's 400 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: one thing to say, um, yeah, we're gonna we're gonna 401 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: get back at you Russia with everything we have, and 402 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,719 Speaker 1: then to like see this horror that isn't you know 403 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 1: that was kind of an attack on civilians and you know, 404 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: women and children, and you know, to say like, no, 405 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: we know, we didn't. That's not us though, like yeah, 406 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: we want to get back at you, Russia, but we 407 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: want to get back at you within like the rules 408 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: of the Geneva Code or rules of warfare or whatever, 409 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: within reason. I just don't think. I can't. I can't 410 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: imagine that they would have done this and then not 411 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: taking credit for it. Well they had. It was interesting 412 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: the this this kind of has some relevance to our 413 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: our next theory, which is that they did it with 414 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: kind of gear that they didn't necessarily have access to, uh, 415 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 1: certain explosives well, like like hd X and a certain 416 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: time or that standard Soviet arm Russian army issue. Yeah, 417 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: you know the thing I mean, I I have a 418 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: lot of qualms with the activities that go on in 419 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,919 Speaker 1: in Czechnia under the UH the rule of the Russian Federation. 420 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: I mean, because the Islamic religion gets blamed for a 421 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 1: lot of stuff and is always deemed as the terror group, 422 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: when in fact it's religion, and all religions are full 423 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: of good people and bad people. And so I really 424 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: I I this this whole it's going to be the 425 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: chech of warlords. Things bothers me because I feel bad 426 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: for what is probably a primarily a group of normal, 427 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: nice people just getting this huge labels slapped on him 428 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 1: by Putin, who's dancing the victory dance, going look at me. 429 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: I found the bad people that you didn't know we're here, 430 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: and I'm taking them out. Yeah, And certainly there's a 431 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: lot of there's a lot of people who aren't terrorists 432 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: who just happened to be living in a village that 433 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: is going to get bombed out of it. It's kind 434 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,959 Speaker 1: of sad for them, not unlike you know a lot 435 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: of other places in the Mid East, for instance. Yeah, yeah, 436 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: I mean it's a fearmongering. I mean, this, this whole 437 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: we're going to go to war against these people because 438 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: they're terrible, is fearmongering that we see in a lot 439 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: of political organizations in this day and age, unfortunately, and 440 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: Islam is always the finger, the one that the finger is. Yeah, 441 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: but it changes every year, Yeah, I mean it really does. 442 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:30,360 Speaker 1: And it's but you mentioned that, um that the there 443 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: was some kind of equipment that was like a debt 444 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 1: issue Russian army. Okay, so that's that's the bomb that 445 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: they diffused in Rhison. So maybe what's the next the 446 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: Russian government? Maybe Jeff fuel doesn't melt steel beams, of 447 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: course it does. What are you saying? Yeah, the an 448 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: American journalist. I saw this guy online giving a talk. 449 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys have seen that. David 450 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,159 Speaker 1: Satder Yes, s A T. T. E. R. Yeah, he 451 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time living in Russia, speaks Russian 452 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 1: and has been covering Russia for a long time. He 453 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 1: traveled to Reason years after the incident and spoke to 454 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: a lot of residents and also to the police, and 455 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: believe it or not, nobody there that he talked to 456 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: believes that Chechen terrorists or Dagistani terrorists or anybody planted 457 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: the bombs. Well, but there's also I mean, there's the 458 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,719 Speaker 1: stuff about the guy who was ideed and on the 459 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: posters and it was yeah, and so the building superintendent 460 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: who rented him the space, yeah he uh, he described 461 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: him and they did a police get to the guy 462 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: and everything, and the guy had presented I d s 463 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 1: if I recall correctly, and then he was hauled in 464 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: by the FSB and they and they basically said, no, 465 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 1: you saw this guy and and so yeah, it was all. 466 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: That was all. And that guy was he was a karachi, yeah, 467 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: something like that. He wasn't one of those very there's 468 00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: so many there's a huge patchwork of ethnicities in that 469 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: part the world. So essentially, yeah, so there is that. Uh. 470 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: And of course I talked to you about about Yelson 471 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: and his distinct lack of popularity, and since elections were 472 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: coming up, Boris and his entourage were legitimately scared of 473 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: what was going to happen to them if he gave 474 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: up power. Uh So, a lot of people were expecting 475 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: that Yeltson would find some excuse to declare martial law. 476 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: And postponed the elections or canceled the elections. And it 477 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: seems like that that was his only option unless he 478 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: can install somebody in the presidency who was an ally 479 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: who would protect him. So that was it. Otherwise warts 480 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: Yeltson would they probably have been murdered or imprisoned or 481 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,400 Speaker 1: god knows what. That's how unpopular it was. I mean 482 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: in America and in the West, Yeltson's actually got high 483 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 1: approval ratings. But really the guy was so corrupt that 484 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: he was just immensely unpopular. And I was going to 485 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 1: ask you to explain what it is because you've you've 486 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: said several times he was corrupt and that you were 487 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: gonna explain it's tell me what is it that he 488 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 1: did that makes you say that he was that corrupt. Well, 489 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: I think corrupt is kind of endemic there. But I 490 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: think one of the most one of the things is 491 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: that is all our buddies who managed to come into 492 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 1: possession of just about all the wealth in Russia where 493 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 1: his pals, you know. I think that's that's one thing 494 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: that people really were a little upset back. Okay, So 495 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 1: it was it was known direct associates of his were 496 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: suddenly very rich people. Yeah, and you know Yelton wasn't 497 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: the only corrupt guy in Russia. No, that's that's just 498 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:33,400 Speaker 1: systemic to that entire governance. Yeah, and I'm understanding there's 499 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 1: no corruption here in America. We are perfect America, America. Well, 500 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: back to the city of Rhizon, Remember that's where the 501 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: bomb was found that didn't go off, that was diffused. 502 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: That where the main the main ingredient in the bomb 503 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: was like rd X and there was a Russian Army 504 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: issue detonator on it. As there were pictures out there 505 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 1: that have been seen by people, and I also said 506 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: that there are sketches of the bombing suspects all over 507 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 1: town and say have been sealed up by police. In 508 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: the days after the apartment bomb had been discovered, a 509 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: telephone operator overheard a conversation between somebody in the city 510 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: and a phone number in Moscow, and the manner the 511 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: reason end of the line of saying, quote, the city 512 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: is sealed and were trapped. What should we do unquote? 513 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: And then the voice at the other had said, split 514 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: up and leave the city one by one, do what 515 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: you can unquote, And the polling operator went to the 516 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 1: police and reported this and gave them the phone number 517 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 1: in Moscow, and when Riason police called that number, it 518 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: turns out it was FSB headquarters. The guys who have 519 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: made the phone call didn't succeed in escaping. They were 520 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: arrested by the police and they turned out to all 521 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: have FSB identifications on them, So that doesn't look so good. 522 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: A little confusion there, and and how how are clarify 523 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: for me again? How were they tied back to the bombings? Well, 524 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: they were because they were the ones who witnesses it said, 525 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: had either rented rented space in the basement or we're 526 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: seeing trucking stuff and compartment building. Just wanted to make 527 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: sure I why yeah, yeah. But then the head of 528 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: the FSB stepped in and cleared things up. He called 529 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: a press conference and he announced that the bomb in 530 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: Rhason was a fake that have been placed there by 531 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: the FSB as quote a test of vigilance unquote. Yeah. 532 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: He congratulated the people of Rhaison for their vigilance, and 533 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: they even put on a little ceremony and gave the 534 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:34,959 Speaker 1: phone operator a new color TV as for her vigilance. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 535 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: the yeah. Even though not everybody buys into the accusation 536 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: that the FSB and the Russian government were involved in this. 537 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: I have to say that Yeltsen certainly did in need 538 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: some sort of provocation, you know, in order to either 539 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: have be able to declare martial law, canceled the election, 540 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: or two maybe go to war in chech d and 541 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: and you know, sort of change the equation and make 542 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: his his new president more popular so that he could 543 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: he can win, he could stay in that office and 544 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: protect Yeltsen after Yeltson left. That sounds this sounds really familiar. 545 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna use quotes when I say nine eleven 546 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: was an inside job. This this sounds like the same 547 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: kind of of I've got, I've got the boogeyman, I'm 548 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: going to find his trail. It's thinking, it's along those lines. 549 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: The only problem with eleven theories is that there's there's 550 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: a lot of them. There's not a shred of evidence. 551 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: But in this, in this case, there is evidence. You 552 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: think there is there is evidence, But I also the 553 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: FSB operated with such a level of impunity. Is the 554 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: word I want to use? Is that the right word? Yeah? Okay, 555 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: so it is the right word. Okay. They that they 556 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: didn't bother to do anything to hide what they were doing. 557 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: They just nobody's gonna stop us. Nobody's gonna do anything. 558 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: And they could have been doing something completely unrelated and 559 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: it got tight And do I think that. No, But 560 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: that's why I'm just well, you don't have to be 561 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: I mean, it is entirely possible. But the fact of 562 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: the matter is is they have been credibly accused in 563 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: the Russian government Vladimir Putins mad they have been accused 564 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: of being involved in in these bombings, and so things 565 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: have happened since then. Remember I mentioned David Sader, the 566 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: journalists who was living in Russi up until when he 567 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: was expelled by the government because he was saying nasty 568 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: things about them. Yeah, he was, and he was researching 569 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: some stuff like the apartment bombings that they weren't enthusiastic 570 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: about him researching. And he and several other journalists formed 571 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: a little committee when they agreed to work together, share 572 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: information and and to not let this story die. The 573 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: other journalists were named s Yshenkov. You I'm really murdering 574 00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: this on a on a Poblico show and Alexander Litvinenko 575 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: and so yeah, comes full circle does. Yeah, and uh, 576 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: of that committee of journalists, the only one that is 577 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: still alive is David Sader. Sergei and Anna were both 578 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: shot to death, um, and you aready was poisoned, um 579 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: with conventional poison. And I'm like, I'm like our guy, 580 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: Alexander Litvinenko, who wasn't It wasn't your ree poisoned with 581 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: some poison that was known to be used by the 582 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: KGB for years as a preferred method of poisoning. Yeah, okay, 583 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: so and so so that's that's why everybody ties it back, okay. Yeah, 584 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: and so you know, this is why I kind of 585 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: like the Russian government involvement theory, because, you know, if 586 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: these guys are just a bunch of crackpots just running 587 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: around saying nine eleven was an inside job, you know, 588 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: or the equivalent, what's the point of murdering them? But if, 589 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: on the other hand, nine four was an inside job, yeah, 590 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: nine four an inside job just doesn't roll off the tongue, 591 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: although in Russian maybe it does. Yeah. I don't think 592 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: anything rolls off the tongue in Russian, al right, But 593 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: so anyway, it could be anything could could be. So 594 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: wait wait, wait, wait, wait, slow down here, back up. 595 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: You've just dropped that, and then you're walking you just 596 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: might drop this. Yeah, okay. So we started out talking 597 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: about Litvinenko and the fact that he got poisoned with 598 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: a random bit of plutonium or polonium. Polonium that's made 599 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: up word you finish, okay, And and now you've tied 600 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: this all back to say that he's he actually was 601 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: murdered by the Russian Federation for his activities in trying 602 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: to expose things that were going on based on the 603 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 1: apartment bombings. Essentially. Yeah, I think that that. You know, 604 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: that's given that everybody that was pursuing this story either 605 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: wound up I mean, and that wasn't just these four. 606 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: There were other people who were investigating who wound up 607 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: getting arrested on bogus charges and locked up. I read 608 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: through a death list on some website and it's like 609 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: there's a dozen high name people. Yeah, it's not yet. 610 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,399 Speaker 1: And so it's not just these four either. There's tons 611 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: of people who are killed or locked up or whatever. 612 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,919 Speaker 1: We're asking the wrong questions about the apartment bombings. Well, 613 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: and here's the thing about polonium is that it's it's 614 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 1: pretty obscure. Don't that a D and D character. But 615 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 1: the place that it's not so obscure is Russia. They 616 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: actually use it for like coatings, to like coat certain metals. 617 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: They know they don't use it, they use it in 618 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: the process of coding certain metals. I don't think, no, 619 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,359 Speaker 1: they don't quote it in this, but there's some don't 620 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 1: want some heat coating. You can use this alpha radiation 621 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: versus the gamma radiation. That's what makes polonium so like interesting, 622 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 1: is its alpha not gamma, And so you can use 623 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: the alpha radiation to more effectively coade things, or at 624 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: least you could anymore. But it's also used often as 625 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: an anti um static electricity things, so it it was put 626 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: on brushes and things like that. Almost everything you read, 627 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: at least you know on a cursory look of the Internet, 628 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: that I did for this particular substance. Yeah, for polonium 629 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: to ten. Almost all of the uses you say is 630 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,439 Speaker 1: they'll say, like in Russia they use it for this, 631 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: and in Russia they use it for that. In Russia 632 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 1: they use it for this, so it's not everywhere else 633 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: they do. So, I mean, it's not like it's just 634 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: floating around in the air in Russia. But of the 635 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: places that they use a Russia is the place they 636 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: use it. So they use it nuclear weapons too, don't they. Yeah, yeah, 637 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: they have yeah, yeah, And so yeah, there's there's reason 638 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: to believe that Livinenko was murdered by the Russians for 639 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 1: his part and covering that story. The apartment at the 640 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: Russia Department Buildings bombing, I think, I mean, it's I'm 641 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 1: on board. And the whole thing worked out well for 642 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: Yeltsin and for for Vladie, although Laddie I think is 643 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: pretty innocent, um, you know, just kidding. That's why he's 644 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,959 Speaker 1: sure list on a white horse running through the surf. 645 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: This is not the end of the story. Joe Steve 646 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: has something to say, some other made up story. You know, 647 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: you have completely overlooked a fourth theory. It could have 648 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: been anybody else in the Russian Federation. Well, no, here's 649 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: the thing is that Levinenko, when he was in the FSB, 650 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: he was in a anti uh it wasn't an anti corruption, 651 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,720 Speaker 1: was anti gang league basically. Yeah, And so he fought 652 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: gangs and he constantly screamed at everybody that everybody was 653 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: corrupt and this place is riddled with corruption, and you've 654 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: got to you've got to root it out, which is 655 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: part of the reason that he left the country, because 656 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: he pointed the finger at everybody. He then got to 657 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,400 Speaker 1: the UK, he wrote those two books, he constantly talked 658 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: to the papers, and if you look at the things 659 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 1: that he claims to the paper in the beginning, the 660 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: very small claims, they're they're they're believable claims. You know this, 661 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 1: this happens in the Russian Federation and when I was 662 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 1: at the FSB, this happened, which means this person is 663 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,280 Speaker 1: responsible for this. But those claims in those accusations, because 664 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 1: nobody ever checked him. The freaking Guardian just ran with it. 665 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: He realized he had a cash cow, and he kept 666 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: making He kept making bigger and bigger stories and accusations. 667 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: And he wasn't just pointing at Putin and Yelson. He 668 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: was pointing at all kinds of people all the time. 669 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 1: So it's entirely possible that he pissed somebody off that 670 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: wasn't even in the government. If indeed, there's all these 671 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: gangs running around, there's a jillion people that could have said, 672 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm done, And the only thing that 673 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: I want to finish on the is that it was 674 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: an FSB officer that is tied to have taken the 675 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: Polonium or the Paladin or whatever it's called colonium. Right, 676 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 1: he was KGB and I thought was he actually an 677 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 1: FSB employee. I don't know that I wind up working 678 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: for the OK or not. But the thing is is 679 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,839 Speaker 1: that because the FSB Russian Federation didn't have much money, 680 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: they were going everything was going down the tanks. You 681 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: were only supposed to work for the FSB, but it 682 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 1: was okay. They turned a blind eye to moonlighting, which 683 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 1: is what let Vinanko did for He was a bodyguard 684 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: for Boris thank you. I wasn't gonna be able to 685 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: say that name. So he worked for Bearzovsky when the 686 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: assassination threat came through. That one of the big ones. 687 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: So it's entirely possible that this guy that is IDD 688 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,720 Speaker 1: was moonlighting for somebody else and operated under their orders. 689 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: So there's there's an entire are another pool of suspects 690 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 1: and we haven't even taught it's no, it's possibly yeah, 691 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: but it's that this is just a coincidence that that 692 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: all these people in this committee got murdered, and but 693 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: it could be. I mean, there were there KGB floating around. 694 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,320 Speaker 1: Who were you there for? Higher and so it's entirely possible. 695 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 1: My only my only quival with that would be is 696 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: that is that they used polonium, which is kind of 697 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:24,320 Speaker 1: hard to get your hands on if you're not actually 698 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,280 Speaker 1: working for the Russian guys. Okay, Um, here's a theory. 699 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: On that day that he met with the KGB people 700 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,880 Speaker 1: in the morning, former KGB whatever, Um, he had lunch 701 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:41,439 Speaker 1: with an Italian man? Was this who was a nuclear specialist? Yeah, 702 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,240 Speaker 1: I mean they had lunch together, So maybe the Italian 703 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 1: guy poisoned them, except the Italian dude didn't die, Soian 704 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:50,440 Speaker 1: I didn't have to ingest it, you just had to 705 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: administer it. Yeah, put in the guys. Yeah, and I 706 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 1: could have put it in his t's true. What what 707 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 1: motive did he have though? I mean, I guess somebody 708 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,240 Speaker 1: hate him to do It's somebody like the Russian government 709 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,520 Speaker 1: or any anybody else. I mean, it's just this is 710 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:12,439 Speaker 1: you've cracked it open. And I get where you've gone 711 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 1: with your train of thought. But and I get I 712 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:19,320 Speaker 1: understand where all these websites that we read are all pointed. 713 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,840 Speaker 1: They they say, well, look at this chain of deaths, 714 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,399 Speaker 1: and all of these people were working on this one 715 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 1: common story, But all of those people were also working 716 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 1: on other things, human rights violations in all these other areas, 717 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: stories about embezzlement and corruption in all these other areas. 718 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 1: You know, So that it's it's a web that this 719 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 1: just happens to be one of the correlations. And it 720 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,720 Speaker 1: may be that they were all murdered for different reasons 721 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: by different groups. And it's just as much as I 722 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 1: am choking on saying this, it is a coincidence. Um, 723 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 1: it's entirely possible. I doubt it, but you know, I 724 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 1: had to admit I'm not convinced, you know, but I 725 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: I have to say that they're my strongest suspects. When 726 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:07,560 Speaker 1: the list becomes as large as it is, I really 727 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 1: I struggle with it. I mean, I get that the 728 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: Russian government is not you know that, it's not as 729 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: if they have clean white gloves on and they've never 730 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 1: done a bad thing, and they've they've never committed an atrocity. 731 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,759 Speaker 1: We all know they have. I just sometimes when I 732 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 1: look at it, it's look at them, big brother is 733 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: bad and here's all these people who died and the 734 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,879 Speaker 1: state said they didn't like them, so the state must 735 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 1: have been responsible for their death. I get I get that. 736 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,239 Speaker 1: I mean, I just you know, I just think they're 737 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,239 Speaker 1: the logical suspects, that's all. I think. It's a bit 738 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: like the G. E. C. Marconi story that we talked 739 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: about recently. You know, yeah, that's it's a little, big 740 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 1: old chunk of people to die. And you know what 741 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 1: Steve is saying is true. However, as an American, I 742 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,960 Speaker 1: think I am obligated to say it was definitely the 743 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 1: Russian government. They are the big bad of this world, 744 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: and it Okay, that's how I feel, all right, O. Cool, 745 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,879 Speaker 1: So we agree right on? Won two powers activate. I'll 746 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,959 Speaker 1: be I'll be over there sobbing in the corner. Yeah, 747 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,839 Speaker 1: I'm used to it. I cry in public all the time. 748 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:25,520 Speaker 1: It's fine to not even at funerals, at weddings whatever. Alright, Well, 749 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 1: so you guys have any other thoughts or should we 750 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:32,040 Speaker 1: wind us down? I think you too think you've solved it. Okay, 751 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 1: yeah we did, we totally did. Uh. Well, let me 752 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 1: tell you a few fun facts here. You're probably wondering 753 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,879 Speaker 1: if we have a website what we do. It's called 754 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,440 Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways podcast dot com and you can you can 755 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 1: grab episodes off of there, listen to episodes. We don't 756 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,839 Speaker 1: allow comments anymore unfortunately, you know why. Uh. You can 757 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 1: also download and listen to us from iTunes. And if 758 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 1: you do that, subscribe and give us a rating and 759 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,759 Speaker 1: a review and preferably good rating review and you can 760 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 1: I'll stream us from like everywhere on Google Play also 761 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:09,440 Speaker 1: right um everywhere all those websites. Yeah, we're we have 762 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 1: all tiny presence in social media. We're on Facebook. We 763 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,919 Speaker 1: have a group and also a page, so join the group. 764 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,400 Speaker 1: And uh, we're on Twitter where we are thinking Sideways 765 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 1: without the gene and a sepread it thinking sideways what 766 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,880 Speaker 1: the g so fis out there? And you can you 767 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: can you know, participate in all kinds of discussions of stuff. 768 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,720 Speaker 1: And if you want to contact us, we have an email. 769 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,720 Speaker 1: Believe it or not. Yeah, we are that twenty one century. 770 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:37,840 Speaker 1: Uh it's Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. And 771 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 1: last of all, if you want to support the podcast, 772 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,759 Speaker 1: there's many ways to do it. Um, there's merchandise. We 773 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,799 Speaker 1: have shirts and mugs and stickers and and it's all 774 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,080 Speaker 1: available to Zazzle and Red bubble Um and you can 775 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,240 Speaker 1: see that in the right hand panel on our website 776 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 1: these links to that. Uh. We are also on PayPal, 777 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,480 Speaker 1: so if you want to donate to the podcast, you 778 00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,319 Speaker 1: can do a one time donation or the you want 779 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,880 Speaker 1: to give us like ongoing support, you can go to Patreon. 780 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,279 Speaker 1: That's p A t R E O N. You go 781 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 1: to patreon dot com slash Thinking Sideways And if you 782 00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,400 Speaker 1: pledge a certain amount, then that's every episode. If you 783 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,320 Speaker 1: pledge like a buck, then you know, we get a 784 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,879 Speaker 1: buck from you for every episode we drop. Yep. Yeah, 785 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 1: And so that's about it. None of that, None of 786 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:22,719 Speaker 1: that stuff is necessary, but if you feel like it, 787 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,600 Speaker 1: please do. All right, guys, any other thoughts here before 788 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 1: we go. I love Laddie Gladdie. I like Laddy too, 789 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,359 Speaker 1: and I think he's totally innocent. Yeah, I think he's 790 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,160 Speaker 1: the most beautiful, illustrious leader we've ever seen in this world. 791 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:40,040 Speaker 1: And m yeah, I just love his hairstyle. I'm emulating 792 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,839 Speaker 1: it right for years working on that that putin. Look, 793 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:45,800 Speaker 1: I just wish that was as handsome as he was. 794 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:52,719 Speaker 1: All right, well, please don't kill us to bed. Yeah,