WEBVTT - Fab 5 Freddy Talks Evolution Of Hip-Hop, Relationship With Basquiat, Blondie’s 'Rapture' + More 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:00.760 Morning. 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:04.120 Everybody's the ej Envy, Charlamagne the God. We are the 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:06.440 Breakfast Club. You got a special guest in the building, 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:09.039 a legend when it comes to this hip hop thing. Man, 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:12.600 ladies and gentlemen, Fab five Freddy welcome, brother hey man. 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:14.319 Pleasure to be here, man, what's happening. 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:16.400 Pleasure to have you, brother man. 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:17.600 Thanks so much. Man. 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:18.720 First of all, how are you. 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:20.680 I'm wonderful. Thank you for asking. 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:23.640 Yeah, and you know, we just celebrated fifty years of 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:24.079 hip hop. 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:24.800 Incredible. 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:26.560 What does that mean to Fab five Freddy? 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:26.920 Wow? 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:29.400 Man? Like I said, it's been I tell you, it's 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.159 been incredible just going through the motions. But at that 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:37.320 Yankee Stadium gig, the vibe in there amongst the people, 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:41.600 the energy, that enthusiasm that like grown folks you know 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:44.040 that lived through it, been through it hurt, all these 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.040 hits having an incredible time. And then when the axe 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:49.800 was on, I'm looking way up all around and people 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:53.480 up in the highest points of Yankee Stadium rocking the house. 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:57.320 So that hit me like, wow, this people really feel this. 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:01.360 It's just hard to articulate how how much it resonated 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.920 for the community that made this all happen, and to 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:07.840 be in the Bronx like it was just it all 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:08.560 came together for me. 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:10.440 Did you ever think that hip hop would take it 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:12.160 this farr to quote the lady, I know, I loved 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:12.600 that call. 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:14.840 Not at all, Not at all. 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:17.320 I mean, I mean I was clearly thinking of, like 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.600 you know, in terms of the moves I made, having 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:23.920 some control over the narrative, you know, being that being 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:27.600 aware that people that look like us in previous generations 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:30.600 of our culture didn't have that ability to host the 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:33.840 shows that you know, you know, the footprint that you 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:36.480 guys have and the things that others like us in 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:39.520 media and do these things. So that was like a 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:44.000 super significant thing that I thought about from beginning. But 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.840 to see it come to this point globally the most 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:51.640 listened to form of music around the world, still, it's 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:53.120 just astonishing. 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:55.400 Let's let's go back for people that don't know who 0:01:55.520 --> 0:02:00.680 Fab five Freddy is. You started off as a graffiti artist, right, yeah, 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:02.640 So let's let's start from the beginning how you got 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.240 into this thing called hip hop and what you created 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:07.960 Because you started off as a graffiti artist, right, and 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:10.520 I'm sure you were tagging trains back in the day 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:11.280 because that was the thing to do. 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:13.280 The trains, that was the thing to do, the trains, 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:16.440 the walls, the buses, right anywhere. It was an audacious 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:19.280 thing to do when when I think back, so many 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:22.480 New York teenagers back then in the seventies just felt 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.000 like it was okay to put your name anywhere you 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:27.919 felt it needed to be. And then the competition of 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:33.040 that developed into a real, you know, refined and defined 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.519 form of expression, ways of using them spray cans that 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:40.120 nobody ever envision anywhere, Like you know, spray cans is 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:41.840 just just you know, the pain and the old piece 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:45.560 or whatever right around the house. Now we've created, you know, 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:48.800 a way to make murals that kind of tell stories 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:52.280 about who we are and what we you know, where 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:54.040 we are and what we want to be and do 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:56.079 and all those things. It was like a fantasy, you know, 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:57.919 kind of like rap was that too. I'm going to 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:00.560 invent myself and talk about all these things I want 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.320 to do, And in graph as it began to really flower, 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.959 it was like, you know, I'm a superhero and my 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:09.320 name is Big and you know, all those things kind 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:13.280 of took off in ways that and then you know, 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:16.120 early on I got something clicked in my head that, 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.000 you know, looking at pop art and what you know. 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:21.320 I used to go to museums a lot as a 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:23.600 kid and looked at what Andy Warholl and these pop 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:25.160 artists were doing, and I was like, wait a minute, 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:28.200 they're inspired by the same things that we were as 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:33.239 graffiti artists, like like looking at popular culture names, comic 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:38.520 book logos, you know. And then and that kind of 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:41.400 made me want to be a visual artist like those 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:45.200 guys were. And then that began a journey that I 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:49.800 kind of helped lead, taking graffiti art into galleries, turning 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:51.360 it into something called street. 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:53.120 Art, which is also like a global thing. 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:55.600 You know, probably heard of my homie Rest in Peace 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:59.280 Jean michel Boski io young brother out of Brooklyn, and 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:03.320 we met on that downtown scene. Had similar aspirations figure 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.880 out a way to be artists, Like Malcolm X said, 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:10.480 by any means necessarily, yeah, he used to Jean was tagging, 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:16.320 but he was putting up these like poetic phrases, quotes 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:19.800 that were not in any way like typical graffiti, but 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:21.440 it was a part of graffiti. 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:23.520 And nobody knew he was a young brother doing it. 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:26.640 Initially He started out doing something called same O, which 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:30.040 was sort of short for same O, you know what 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:30.360 I mean. 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.160 And then that developed and then we met and he 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:33.960 was on the scene. 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:35.320 He turned out to be a brother like he was 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.520 doing stuff around Soho in the village area. People didn't 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:40.600 know he was a brother, and we met at a 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:44.440 party writer as I'm kind of stepping on that downtown 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:47.280 art scene, and we both had similar aspirations to try 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:49.440 to figure this out, so we began to you know, 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:51.840 we kind of linked up and we're in the same circuit. 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.760 Blondie was somebody that we met pretty much at the 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:59.679 same time. I'm in their ear about this new culture, 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.159 and then they kind of took us under their wings, 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.440 so to speak, and brought out work some of the 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:07.000 first people to buy paintings. 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:08.880 For myself and Jean Michelle and then made. 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.160 You know, took some inspiration from them stories I told 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:14.360 them and made a record called Rapture Altho. 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:16.080 We Got to Stay Here for a Minute was the 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:17.239 first video on MTV. 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:19.800 That was one of the MTV's first videos, which I'm 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.160 featured in along with Jean Michelle. I tried to get 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:24.719 flash was supposed to have come to be the DJ 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:26.160 i'd met, because you know, it was working on the 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:28.520 first hip hop movie while Style of It in that 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:31.640 same time frame, early eighties. I said, Flash, come down 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:35.800 and be in this video. You know, to think that 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:38.280 there was no MTV at that time, so we did 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:40.840 music video was not a thing. But still I'm like, 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:44.240 they had this idea to create a music video. All 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:46.440 the people we hung out with were in the video. 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:50.680 Flash never showed up. So I said, Jean stand at 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.600 the turntables, and I try to tell Majean just stood 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:55.440 there with a grin on his face. So in the raption, 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.000 so as Debbie starts to rap in the first line 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.640 on this Fab five, Freddy told me everybody's fly. 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:05.520 She's saying it to Jean and then she you know, 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:06.440 the song goes on. 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:09.479 So that turned out to be one of MTV's first 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:14.039 videos when the channel launched, and close to ten years later, 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:17.520 they would they were kind of pressured into trying to, 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:20.480 you know, to do a show about rap music, and 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:22.200 I got the call YOMTV raps. 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:24.480 I want to hear more about Boski at but I 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:26.880 want to talk about Blondie too, because we had these 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:28.600 conversations about fifty years of hip hop, and when I'm 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:32.720 starting to realize is the role that Blondie played and 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.520 helping get helping get hip hop main screaming, we have 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:39.000 all these conversations about white allies. Now, she was one 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:40.960 back then because I saw something. I was watching the 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:45.640 Ladies First documentary and she put shot, uh, Funky is 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.800 the Funky Funky four plus Funky four plus one on CNL. 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:52.360 That's right, And that was me because I had been 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:55.680 in there are playing them old school hip hop party tapes, 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:58.120 breaking it all down, and so a lot of the 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.840 things that she's saying in the app with things that 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:06.480 I told her, you know, flashes, fast flashes, coolrefaid. You 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:10.000 told me everybody's fly on the early hip hop scene, 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.200 it was fly guys and fly girls. So I'm telling 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.640 her the slang, explaining how Flash was the fastest DJ 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.200 and how that was a big thing. And I was 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:21.280 amazed that they went out and made that record. I 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.080 knew they were feeling me. Her and her boyfriend at 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:28.000 the time, Chris Stein, that was the nucleus of Blondie. 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:30.400 I would they would invite me to come hang out 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:32.600 with them and we would just talk on pop culture. 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:35.320 Chris Stine. He was from Brooklyn. He loved the graffiti 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:36.920 on the train. So when I said, hey, I'm one 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:38.840 of those guys, oh man, I love that stuff. And 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.120 then I began to share my ideas trying to figure 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:43.120 out a way to be a visual artist, trying to 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.240 make it happen. It was actually them that took that. 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:51.160 The first time I met mister Andy Walholl was through them, 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:52.960 and then we you know, me and Andy and I 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:55.520 became friends. He was a supporter of what we were doing. 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.280 And yeah, they made that record and it went number 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:02.600 one across the country and many countries around the world. 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.640 And I don't I don't describe it as hip hop, 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:09.160 but it was the first time people heard rapping in 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:11.840 a context. And then also what she was, what she 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:15.880 graciously did was shout me out and mentioned other things 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.360 in the scene that I told her later. When Flash 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:21.320 did this record, the Adventures of Grand Master Flasher on 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.120 the Wheels of Steel, where he literally made a record 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:27.440 an example of what he would do live, just masterfully 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:28.960 cut up a series of records. 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:30.120 It started with. 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:35.520 Using that using that rapture song where you hear that thing, 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:37.120 and then he cuts it into a whole bunch of 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:39.959 different other songs are cut. 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.240 In, which is how do you think people like Blondie 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.000 avoided the label of culture vulture back then? 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:47.120 You know what I mean, that's a good question, But 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.360 that word culture volta as a concept didn't exist, and 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.680 I think it was I mean, if you had really 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:56.960 dived into hip hop, which wasn't that big of an 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:59.120 audience outside of New York. 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:01.480 Most people did know what the hell she was doing. 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:03.120 They just were big Blondie fans. 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:07.920 She sang as the record opened in her lovely voice 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.880 and then broke into this rap and was pretty decent 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:12.959 at it, you know, all things considered. 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:14.120 It's not like I sat there. 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:15.680 With her and tried to teach her how to rap. 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:18.319 She had rhythm and just said, I'm going to make 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:20.480 a record. Fat. I've been in her ear a lot, 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:22.640 and this record was a reflection at It was such 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.280 a gracious thing because it turned out to be a 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:27.880 calling card for me. Nobody really knew who I was. 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:30.520 I hadn't been on TV then, you know. And then 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:34.079 when MTV happened and they decided to try it out immediately, 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.200 it had the highest ratings any show had had at 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.600 that time. Then people began to figure out, wait a minute, 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:42.800 that's the guy that Blondie. 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.040 Mentioned, let's go back to your TV raps. So your 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:45.800 on TV raps. 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:48.120 They flipped this channel and they create this hip hop 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:50.319 show called Your MTV Raps. Right, I'm sure at the 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:54.080 time it was kind of like a stab against Ralph 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:55.360 McDaniel's Video Music Box. 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:56.480 No, not at all. 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.160 No, Ralph was definitely I was a fan of Ralph's 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:04.680 show from the beginning in it. But they were resistant 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.240 what MTV was trying to do. It's interesting that you 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.439 you guys are now, you know, have this big position 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:15.679 doing radio. The guys like you, well, you know, the 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:19.920 thing was radio was pretty segregated, and in the American charts, 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:22.640 I mean, England was different. That's why I referenced America 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:26.920 pop pretty much meant white essentially, So no matter what 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:29.199 kind of record you made, if you could, you know, 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:32.560 make a record that was popping all the descriptive ways, 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:34.920 the people doing it were black, they would most often 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:37.079 off end up on the R and B or the 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:40.959 soul chart or the dance chart. And so MTV was 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:44.280 set up to try to mirror that a visual form 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:47.000 of what of what American radio stations were and so 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:49.960 when black acts got big, they were like, why am 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:52.280 I not getting any love on there? And so, with 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:55.280 the exception of a little line of Richie, a Little Prince, 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.160 there was very little black music to be seen. And 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:05.000 then I think it was Michael Jackson's label, Columbia's CBS 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:08.200 if I'm not mistaken, Epic, whichever one of those really 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:10.440 pressured them and they said, listen, we're going to pull 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:14.920 all out other acts, which included Bruce Springsteen off of MTV. 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:18.000 If you don't play Michael Jackson. I think that specifically 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:21.560 was Billy Jean, and then they played it. The numbers 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:23.880 went through the roof and then came Thriller and everything 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:26.599 like that, so that really they had to realize that 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:29.400 this time to change up that attitude. And then there 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:32.760 with two young white guys at MTV, Peter Doughty and 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:36.920 then Ted Demi Rest in Peace. Peter I've known on 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:38.040 the downtown scene. 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:38.719 He knew things. 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:42.240 I was moves I was making with Blondie and hip 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:46.199 hop's first film, Wild Style, and so he was in 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:49.880 their ear. Like records were selling like Crazy Run dmcll. 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.160 Some of those first early hip hop records were going crazy, 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:55.959 no marketing, no promo, and so they said, okay, we're 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.280 going to try try this out, and they tried it. 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:00.599 Keep them and also I'd like to make There was 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.840 a European version called The Yo Show that a female 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:08.240 named Sophie Bromley, a frenchwoman North African French woman who 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.199 was really cool, had hosted for a short period of 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:14.880 time only on MTV Europe. And then they decided that's 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:16.839 so that's where the Yo came from. There was a 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.640 Yo and then they said, okay, well we're gonna call 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:20.679 it Yo MTV. 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:21.800 Raps and it went. 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:24.880 And they called you first. You were the first. 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:27.800 Yeah, because I knew Peter and they saw the moves 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:28.280 I was making. 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:31.520 They saw the Rapture video, they saw the film Wild Style, 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:34.120 which you know I produced it all original music. 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:35.840 For, and then you know, one of the lead characters. 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:37.960 So I had a bit of a presence and they 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:41.040 you know, made this argument and they said, let's give 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:44.160 it a try. And the ratings were crazy from the jump, 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:48.360 and so I held down the Saturday slot. They'd asked 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:50.959 me about a year or two into it. They wanted 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:52.719 to get a daily version of the show, and I 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.040 didn't want to over expose myself. 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.760 Plus, I'm I'm directing music videos at the time. 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:01.000 The first video I did was my philosophy Carros one, 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:03.360 Carross one, and then a whole string of videos. 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:05.240 So I wanted to stay in my land. I didn't 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:06.839 want people to be like, oh man, I'm tired of 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:08.439 seeing him him on the screen. 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:10.720 You know whatever, Like a lot of those other VJs 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:14.160 would be on there for hours introducing all these you know, Duran, 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.360 Duran and whatever else, and then they luckily found ed 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:19.160 Love and Doctor Dre. 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:21.160 How long were you working at Young TV raps before 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:23.240 they brought in at Love and Dre? 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:25.719 It was about it because it was close to two 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:27.520 years the first two. 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:31.720 If I'm not mistaken, and you wasn't you wasn't upset 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:35.680 with leaving or you wanted to leave or was it well? 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.839 When it ended about six or seven years in which 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.800 was incredible run, it was kind of sad that it 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:43.560 came to an end. 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:45.360 But I realized, like, you know. 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:50.000 Those acts that debuted on your TV raps were so pivotal, 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.600 they were so defining of the culture. Like the first 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:59.319 time people saw you know, Tupac Nwa, you know, Luke 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:01.440 and then my go to these areas. 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:04.560 Where were you invented that everybody that's doing these these 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.120 these shows now where they go to where people are 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:10.160 that's absolutely fab far Freddy, fab far Freddy invented on 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:11.880 location conversation. 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.040 Yeah, and that was motivated by the way MTV had 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:17.240 been set up. The VJs would be in a room. 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:19.760 They would have all these crooky images going on in 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:23.600 the background, kind of a crazy you know, just mash 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.160 up of visuals and they'd be on for two, three, 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:29.400 four hours at a time, and it was like, I mean, 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:31.160 they're like, man, I just want to see this video, 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.120 you know, you know, slame dude on the screen. 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:37.360 What's going on? So I just was all about lessons more. 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:38.320 It was a thing for me. 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.520 And yeah, so it was, it was, it was. 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:42.680 It was a beautiful run. 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:44.600 I know, we're gonna be all over the place because 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:46.440 you just got such a great hit, so many gems 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.160 like and I know you said you didn't see hip 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:51.200 hop going as far, but as far as hip hop 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:52.800 becoming mainstream, you played a big. 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:53.600 Role in that. 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:55.440 Like when I think of the movie Wild Style, like 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.040 what did that movie mean to you and hip hop 0:14:58.320 --> 0:14:59.320 at that at that time. 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.560 Yeah, well, you know, that was an idea that I 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:05.400 had had to try to create a better look for us. 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:08.200 A lot of times in the media when somebody was 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.680 a young Black or Latin person when they were seeing, 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.600 you know, some cool street person was almost always in 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:17.160 a negative context, and I wanted to try to do 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:21.560 something to change that narrative. Also as trying to be 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.160 a visual artist, which was the main thing I focused on, 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:27.640 but dabbling in other forms of creative expression. 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.240 I wanted to just put us all in a better 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:31.680 light and then show what we were doing. 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.160 So the idea that I had had for a wild 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.360 Style was to show a way to show the connection 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:41.040 between all these elements that are part of hip hop 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.000 now that didn't exist before. So the idea was to 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:46.600 make a film that showed the connection between this rapping, 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:51.160 this djang, the breakdancing, and the visual form of expression. 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:54.080 Graffidi and I hooked up with this cat Charlie Ahearn, 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.000 who was an underground filmmaker on the downtown scene in 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:00.360 New York. He had made a super low budget movie 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.720 about kung Fu that had caught my eye. When I 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:07.120 linked with him, I basically pitched this idea for the movie, 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:09.840 and he said, essentially, let's get busy. 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.000 So then we started researching. 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:15.160 Going to parties in the Bronx, going to the t Connection, 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:21.680 the Ecstasy Garage, meeting Busy Bee, Cold Crush, Fantastic, Funky 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:24.400 Four plus one more including shah Rock, and that was 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.240 how to jump back to the Blondie thing. When they 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:30.600 got the opportunity to host Saturday Night Saturday Night Live, 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:34.040 they also got to pick who the support act was 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:36.320 and they wanted to bring somebody hip hop on. 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:38.920 So we talked about flashing the Furious Five. 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:40.520 Of course they were big, but then I said, you know, 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:44.320 the Funky Four, similar to Blondie, has a female like 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:47.040 out front, and I thought it was a nice counterbalance. 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:48.760 Now what they talked about in the Ladies first Dog, 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:50.600 I don't know you've seen him, but like they break 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:52.720 that whole thing down, Like it was all because of 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:56.600 the shah Rock that Blondie wanted her to wanted them 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:57.680 to be the group correct. 0:16:57.760 --> 0:16:59.960 So that was me behind that and that was incredible. 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.440 I remember being at Saturday Night Live for the taping 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.040 of that, and it was a young brother that had 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:07.600 I didn't really get to kick it with him that 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:11.920 much that had just joined the Saturday Night crew, and 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:12.879 that was Eddie Murphy. 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:13.400 Wow. 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:15.760 Yeah, just started around and I remember seeing because it 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.040 was another brother that used to be on Eddie Saturday 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:18.879 Night Live in the beginning. 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:20.240 Garrett Morris was. 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:23.199 His name, absolutely, and then this young kat Eddie who 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:26.840 would later like blow up all over the place a 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:27.199 little bit. 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:30.520 It's so interesting because you know, I keep hearing you 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.000 talk about you wanted to make sure hip hop was 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:37.280 presented in the right way, right, So I wonder, like, 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:40.840 what are your thoughts on the genre of hip hop now? 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.359 Well, you know, hip hop has continually amazed me with 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:48.720 the different turns and the evolutions that have happened within it. 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:53.080 That's been the most fascinating thing for me. And some 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:55.600 of the things that I've hoped for have come to light. 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.200 Like I remember the very early days when it was 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.920 all pretty much throw your hands in the air waving 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:03.040 like you just don't careybody say, oh, it's pretty much 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:04.840 a party, uplifting kind of vibe. 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:05.920 And that was cool. 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:08.000 But then I said, man, if somebody can figure out 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:10.560 a way to say something that was socially relevant, I 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.760 knew that would elevate us, and that was the message 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:16.960 broken glass everywhere, you know, don't push me because I'm 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.600 close to the edge. Really articulated how a lot of 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.960 people were living in New York and other hoods, and 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:27.359 everybody got the memo that we can now throw our 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.520