1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show Ridiculous Historians. We are on the 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: road this week, right uh road again? Yeah yeah right, 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: not necessarily right now, We're actually coming to you from 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: our traditional home bases. But by the time you hear this, 5 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: we will be in the wind. As they say, yes, 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: yes so uh so your pals here, super producer Max 7 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: Williams and Noel Brown and yours truly, we wanted to 8 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 1: share some of our favorite classic episodes this week. Remember, Noel, 9 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: you and I were both pretty astonished, I think, when 10 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: we learned that the United States used bat poop as 11 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: a reason to invade another country. It's it's what, I mean, 12 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: what other reason do you need? Man? There's there's hill, 13 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 1: there's hills in them their goals. Now that's not how 14 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: it goes. There's poop in them their hills. And it 15 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: turns out that wan bird poop also bat poop. You know, 16 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: the white stuff? Remember that was that was that voice? 17 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: No not boys? Was New Kids on the Block? Or 18 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: was it Milli Vanille, Milli Vanilli white? The right stuff, 19 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: the white stuff that comes out of bird's butts is 20 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: actually really really good for fertilizer and also for making explosives. 21 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: M and we were collectively stunned by this, along with 22 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 1: our pal good friend of the show, Casey pegram So nol, 23 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: you and I and Casey, we looked into what really happened. 24 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: How could you use guano as a pretext to invade 25 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: a sovereign land? And that's this episode that sure is 26 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: specifically you the United States that you were referring to, 27 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: and this is the thing that happens. So let's jump 28 00:01:55,520 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: right in. Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. It's 29 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: time for the show. Ladies and gentlemen, friends and neighbors. 30 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: I am Ben Bullin, and I am super proud of 31 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: both of us for not starting with a fart joke today. 32 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: Was that on the table. It's always on the table. 33 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: But so far we've managed to be our best selves, 34 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,119 Speaker 1: I think with the farthest we've ventured into that kind 35 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: of blue territory was unicorn farts, Angel Angel farts. You know, 36 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: there was that, and then there was also the episode 37 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: about scientist hiding under college kids beds. But that wasn't 38 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 1: our fault, No, no, that was that was a historic fact. 39 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: It's true. I'm Noel, by the way, and this is 40 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History. And here we are, here we are. So 41 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: you may be asking yourselves, Bennuel superproducer Casey Pegram, why 42 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: did you feel the need to point out that you 43 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: aren't starting with a fart joke. Well, because, Ben, we're 44 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: talking about poop poo today. We are, we are, and 45 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: we're not just talking about excrement. We're talking about a 46 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: very important sort of excrements, white gold, my man guano yep, 47 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: the island ingot known as bird poop Island or guano. 48 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: And we are also talking about geopolitics. We're talking about 49 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: the great game that all nations play. Yeah, what could 50 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: be better? Poopoo and geopolitics? Right? Aren't you glad you 51 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: tuned in today? So I would propose that we, as 52 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: the Mad Hatter said, start at the beginning. Ish, I 53 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: think that's the smart way to go about this, all right, 54 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: and then we'll probably go to the middle and sort 55 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: of a chronological way. I like it. Let's travel no 56 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: Old to the Pacific Remote Islands Marine National Monument. What 57 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: the heck is that? Yeah? So it's today three seventy 58 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: thousand square nautical miles of protected islands that stretch from 59 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: the wake Atoll, which is in the northwest to Jarvis 60 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: Island in the southeast, and it's basically a cluster of 61 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: small islands that is protected under the National Wildlife Refuge System. 62 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: And just to list them all off, there's Kingman Reef, 63 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: Palmyra Atoll, Howland Island, Baker Island, Jarvis Island and then 64 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: those are the ones under the National Wildlife Refuge System, 65 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 1: but they also include two others Johnston Atoll and Wake Island, 66 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: and these islands are home to tremendous levels of biodiversity. 67 00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: This is also where we discovered some amazing sly silly 68 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: and doctors Susian bird names. Also side note, yes, we 69 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 1: are aware that the correct pronunciations doctor soyce, like the 70 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: ham fisted boobie, the sooty turn I made up ham 71 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: fisted boobie. I mean, the booby is real, but the 72 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: sooty turn is totally legit. And you know what, I 73 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: totally said, ham fisted boobie. I thought, sure, yeah, why not? Yes? 74 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: And is it anymore or less ridiculous than the rest 75 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: of them? Like the wandering tattler. I also have a 76 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: lovely laundry list of endangered or depleted species that do 77 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: quite well in the Pacific remote islands, and they include, 78 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: but are not limited to, the green and hawksbill turtle, 79 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: the pearl oyster, giant clams, reef sharks, coconut crabs, groupers, 80 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: hump head and Napoleon rasses. What's a rass? W r ass? 81 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: Don't know what that one is? And my personal favorite 82 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: the ever Doctor Susian bump head parrot fish. Bump head 83 00:05:55,640 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: parrot fish, yes of Doctors Susian fame. Also, typically, the 84 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: Palmyra atol and Kingman Reef have the highest coral diversity 85 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: levels of any other atoll or reef island in the 86 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: entire Central Pacific. Oh and ras is a type of 87 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: civet which is a really cute looking tiny mammal, A 88 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: civt civet a civet with a V like victory or vendetta. Interesting. Okay, 89 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: so it's we're saying that I think it's really important 90 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: for us to establish these are not just the homes 91 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: of some hilariously named birds, but for the purpose of 92 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: today's episode, we are very much focusing on those birds. 93 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: Because if you have a lot of birds in a 94 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 1: small area, what else do you have a lot of? 95 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: You got a lot of bird poop and bird poop 96 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: is the key ingredient of today's episode. Also, this reminds 97 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: me thanks to everybody who wrote to us and demystified 98 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: vinegar pie. Yeah yeah, we've moved on now to recipes 99 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: exclusively involving bird droppings and it's but it's not just 100 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: bird droppings for fun, because, as it turns out, these 101 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: piles of white poop were very important in the United 102 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: States establishment of imperialist laws. It turns out that if 103 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: you discover an island and you say, you know what, 104 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: I want this island to belong to the United States, 105 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: all you have to do is tell them, essentially that 106 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: you're going to mind bird poop on that island and 107 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: then give it to the US. There's poop in them hills. 108 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: And that's all because of the Guano Islands Act of 109 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty six, which says that if a US citizens 110 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: finds some bird dukie on any rock, island or key, 111 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: and that location isn't already under the control of another government, 112 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: you can consider it as quote appertaining to the United States. 113 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: Quite spurious and interesting legal term that we will dive 114 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: into a little later. Right. Yes, absolutely, the Guano Island 115 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: Act of eighteen fifty six is still on the books today. 116 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: It's forty eight US Code, Chapter eight, and specifically, we've 117 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: got the language here. Whenever any citizen of the United 118 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: States discovers a deposit of guando on any island, rock, 119 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: or key not within the lawful jurisdiction of any other government, 120 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 1: and not occupied by the citizens of any other government, 121 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: deep breath, and takes peaceful possession thereof, and occupies the 122 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: same such island rock work, he may, at the discretion 123 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: of the President, be considered as appertaining to the United States. 124 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 1: So it has to be a legit deserted islands. But 125 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: why do this, ben Why write such a convoluted and 126 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 1: seemingly silly sounding code that allows people to, you know, 127 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: basically squat on uninhabited islands and dig for pooh. That's 128 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: a great question. And it turns out that guano was 129 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: much more than just a fun thing at the time. 130 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: In the eighteen forties and even before, guano became a 131 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: very very powerful and precious commodity because it was a 132 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: source of saltpeter for gunpowder and was also a very 133 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: useful fertilizer. The US began importing guano in eighteen forty three, 134 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 1: and the UK was also importing it. By the early 135 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: eighteen fifties, US imports were more than or around I 136 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:48,599 Speaker 1: guess it's fair to say seven hundred and sixty thousand tons, 137 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: and one of the big sources of this came from 138 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: Peruvian seabirds, and farmers were claiming in the eighteen forties 139 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 1: that using this fertilizer could increase a crop yield threefold. Right, 140 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: because these small Peruvian islands had little rainfall, intense sunlight, 141 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: and ultimately the perfect, perfect perfect conditions to allow this 142 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 1: guano to dry out in form deposits that could then 143 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: be mined like any other natural resource. Right, Yes, so 144 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: we have a guano boom, actually a guano mania, as 145 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: some people were coining it. At historian by the name 146 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: of Richard Wines called it a perfect mania because of 147 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: guano's potency as a fertilizer. In eighteen fifty it was 148 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,319 Speaker 1: seventy six dollars a pound or one hundred and sixty 149 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: seven dollars a kilogram, which is, according to an article 150 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: from Dan Vergano in National Geographic, a quarter of the 151 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: price of actual gold. And I wasn't joking at the 152 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: top when I said white gold, I mean this was 153 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 1: a very valuable material that was quite sought after because 154 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: it was before the invention of synthetic fertilizers, which were 155 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: made of ammonia, and that didn't happen until the early 156 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: twentieth century, right, so the time Now you can find 157 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: a really great interview with Columbia law professor Christina Duffy 158 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: Burnett where she provides some historical context to this and 159 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: talks about the genuine crisis, the mania the boom, because 160 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: this wasn't sort of a a useless or cosmetic boom 161 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: like beanie babies. No, it turned out the fertilizer was 162 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: actually really good, or rather the guano made for a 163 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: bang up fertilizer because it was very rich in both 164 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: phosphorus and nitrogen. It led to a very strange market. 165 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: There were guano counterfeiters, totally fake guano flooding the market, 166 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: which makes me think somebody's going, dad, why won't you 167 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: tell me what you do for a living. It's like 168 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: the quiet son, get me more of this off white paint. 169 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: I don't know what what do you cut guano with? Yeah, like, 170 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: I don't know, baby laxative, Right, did they did they 171 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,719 Speaker 1: have that at the time. No, no, No, it's unclear, Ben, 172 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:03,319 Speaker 1: It's clear. The history is murky in that department. Different episode, 173 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: right for another day. But what we do find is 174 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: that this led to pretty intense diplomatic disputes. From the 175 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: piece that you quoted earlier, Knell courtesy of Richard Wines, 176 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: the United States did find itself in some pretty corporate 177 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: America would call healthy conversations absolutely, which in the real 178 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: world is a euphemism for intense arguments. Because this all 179 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: came to a tipping point Malcolm Gladwell style, when people 180 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 1: began fighting over a Caribbean island called Aves. It's an isolated, 181 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,839 Speaker 1: uninhabited dot at the time, about three hundred and fifty 182 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: miles off the coast of Venezuela. In eighteen fifty four, 183 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: Americans landed on this island and they wanted to claim 184 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: it as US territory. They erected get this, a liberty 185 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: poll on the island to make things official, like a 186 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: barber pole, and they called it a liberty pole. But 187 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: when they left and returned with guano mining gear, they 188 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: found the employees of a British firm already there with 189 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: the gear mining that sweet sweet guanna. Did they have 190 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: a scrap? Well, at first they divided it up between them, 191 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: and somebody said, all right, we you know, we were 192 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: here first, but there's enough bird poop for everyone. And 193 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: the British said, very well, tally ho whatever you know 194 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 1: slang they chose to use at that time, and they thought, 195 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: pip pip, there we go, and they thought that they 196 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: would you live in peace and harmony. However, Venezuela considered 197 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: the island to be Venezuelan territory, and they were not 198 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: impressed by this liberty pole. They were not impressed by 199 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: this guanna. They were not impressed that the British and 200 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: the Americans were getting along. So then the scrap took place. Yes, yes, yes, 201 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: a Venezuelan warship came several months later and kicked everybody out, 202 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 1: and then there was a dispute that lasted for decades. 203 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: Even though long story short, it turned out that the 204 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: guano on this island was kind of well, I was 205 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: going to say crappy as a manure, but maybe a 206 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: better word would be substandard. So a little more time passes, 207 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: and obviously this is not a sustainable model, right, So 208 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: the US farmers start really pushing the farm lobby to 209 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: pressure Congress to get in the mix and pass some 210 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: kind of legal ease that would allow for basically what 211 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: we're talking about, claiming these uninhabited islands that potentially could 212 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: be sites for guano deposits under what ultimately became the 213 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: Guano Islands Act. And we've read portions of that, and 214 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: I just want to read one more little snippet because 215 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: I think it's pretty instructive. The discoverer shall, as soon 216 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: as practical, give notice, verified by affidavit, to the Department 217 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: of State, of such disgus very occupation and possession, describing 218 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: the island Rock or Key, and the latitude and longitude thereof, 219 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: as near as maybe, and showing that such possession was 220 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: taken in the name of the United States, and shall 221 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: furnish satisfactory evidence to the State Department that such island 222 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: Rock or Key was not the time the discovery thereof, 223 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: or of the taking, possession and occupation thereof by the claimants, 224 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: in the possession or occupation of any other government or 225 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: of the citizens of any other government before the same 226 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: shall be considered as appertaining to the United States, appertaining 227 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: do you want to get into appertaining? Okay, so, yes, 228 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:40,119 Speaker 1: a good. I keep going back to this excellent interview 229 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: in Cabinet Magazine. Appertaining just the strict definition is to 230 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: relate to to concern, to be appropriate or applicable. And 231 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: in this interview titled Islands in the Law with again 232 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: with Christina Duffy Burnett of Columbia University of Columbia University 233 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: aim absolutely right, there's this concept. Okay, what is It's 234 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: not It's almost like a friends with benefits thing. I've 235 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: been thinking about this for a while. It's it's all 236 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: of the girlfriend and boyfriend, but the fun times, but 237 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: really none of the obligation protections, right right. So in 238 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: this interview, and you can read this in full online, folks, 239 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: Cabinet Magazine asked Professor Burnett, what does appertaining mean legally speaking? 240 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: And the professor says, that's the beauty of it. Nothing, 241 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: or rather, no one had any idea. It was a 242 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: vague way of saying, it's like ours pretty much kind 243 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: of sort of, And there was no previous usage of 244 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: appertaining in this context. Anywhere anywhere capital a anywhere italicized 245 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: underline highlighted anywhere. There was nothing in English about this. 246 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: It originated in property law as a way of talking 247 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: about stuff that came attached to something else. So like 248 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: you would you buy property on an estate and there 249 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,199 Speaker 1: would be language in there about the waters appertaining to 250 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 1: the estate, you know, a little pond or a creek, 251 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: or the railway sidings that appertained to a railway. It 252 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: basically means we got DIBs. Yeah. Yeah, So it's a 253 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: way of taking place as possessions while being careful not 254 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: to call them territories, because if there's a territory that 255 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: the US owns legally, there are obligations that come along 256 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: with that and constitutional entanglements. So it's a way of 257 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: taking places without taking responsibility for them in a federal sense. Yeah. 258 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: The final section of the Code is even entitled Right 259 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: to Abandon Islands. Nothing in this chapter contained shall be 260 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: construed as obliging the United States to retain possession of 261 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: the islands, rocks, or keys after the guanos shall have 262 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: been removed from the same So we swoop in, we 263 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 1: take the poop, and then we're out right. It's like 264 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 1: a heist. It's like a very very slow heist. It's 265 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: very slow heist. There's not a montage for it yet. 266 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: So you know, this whole thing, this collection of islands 267 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: that we talked about at the top of the show, 268 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: including the Palmyra Atoll in total, referred to as the 269 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: Remote Islands Marine National Monument. The way we secured those 270 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: in the first place was as a direct result of 271 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: this Guano Act. But turns out there wasn't a whole 272 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: lot of guano in these islands. Yes, as a country, 273 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: the United States was so desperate to get a hold 274 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: of that sweet, sweet guano that they started just going 275 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: for places that they thought might have it because they were, 276 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: you know, tiny islands that were not inhabited by humans. 277 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: So logically, right, if there were no large mammals on 278 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: most of these islands, then birds would be free to 279 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: fly and poop as they will. But you need a 280 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: little more than that. Still, it didn't stop us because 281 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: counting those five islands, there were about seventy islands seven 282 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 1: zero islands claimed based on this law. And back to 283 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: that fantastic article with Professor Burnett, she describes this time 284 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:31,479 Speaker 1: as being rampant with wildcatters and roughneckers who were just 285 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: plopping down on these islands and throwing up their freedom 286 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: polls and going to town. And you know there would 287 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: be some kind of shifty elements in all of this 288 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,199 Speaker 1: because it was kind of the wild West. I mean, 289 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: there is a provision in the Guano Act that says, 290 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 1: you know, laws broken while on these islands follow the 291 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: same laws as governed the high seas. If you're on 292 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: like a merchant vessel, for example, and you're on the 293 00:19:55,520 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 1: high season international waters, you still are held accountable to 294 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,719 Speaker 1: American laws, such as the case here. But even still, 295 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: it's sort of like that episode we did on Antarctica 296 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: where you're so isolated and like out of the view 297 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: of the eyes of the law of your home country 298 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,199 Speaker 1: that who knows what could happen. I want to dig 299 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:16,959 Speaker 1: a little deeper and see if there were any crazy 300 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: guano related murders. Oh man, there are. There are so 301 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 1: many strange anecdotes about life on remote islands. I do 302 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: want to recommend, by the way, one of my favorite 303 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: books for anybody interested in reading anecdotes about remote islands. 304 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: It's The Atlas of Remote Islands by an author named 305 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: Judith Schlansky. And oh, I can't say enough about it, 306 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: but there are a couple of guano anecdotes in there, 307 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: if I recall correctly, and Nol is absolutely accurate in 308 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 1: that description, because there were freelancers who wanted to be despots, 309 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: you know, and say like, I'm the King of bird poop. Guano, 310 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: by the way, can also describe bat poop, but in 311 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: the case of the Guano Act, it's more specifically talking 312 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 1: about birds. There were also legitimate pirate types, you know, 313 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: cowboys with ships, Professor Burnett calls them. And one of 314 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: the tricky things about this is that the process for 315 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: acquiring new territory in the history of the United States, 316 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: it's never really been a straightforward process, and often you 317 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: will see that there were differences in the kind of 318 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: territory or land acquired, like is it incorporated unincorporated? What 319 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: does that even mean? Right? So, this Act actually was 320 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 1: introduced in eighteen fifty six by William Henry Seward, who 321 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: was a senator at the time, and you may know 322 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: him as actually the person who bought Alaska when he 323 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: was the Secretary of State during the Andrew Johnson administration, 324 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: famously referred to as Seward's folly. Why because people thought 325 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 1: it was a bad idea oh, that makes sense. But 326 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: as it turns out, despite what this act could potentially 327 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,719 Speaker 1: have done for US farmers, there was a lot of 328 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: controversy surrounding it, and it specifically was about the language. 329 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: And in the original version the term that was used 330 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: were territory and sovereignty and things like that. But people 331 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: had issues with this because it was much more specifically 332 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: imperialist and that was felt a little too English perhaps, 333 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: and I think people that kind of freaked people out 334 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: a little bit. So that stuff kind of got the acts, 335 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: and that's where that appertain word came in, that very 336 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 1: legally just vague term that, according to Professor Burnett, pretty 337 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: much means absolutely nothing. But this whole idea of claiming 338 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: islands really set the tone for US imperialism abroad, and 339 00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: that's where the terms incorporated and unincorporate rated territories originated. 340 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: Incorporated territories means that they are on the road to 341 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 1: becoming a proper state, like we're going to make an 342 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: honest territory of you, and you know, tie the knot. 343 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: And it seems to me like a prerequisite for something 344 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: being considered in this light would be that it had 345 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: a decent amount of people already living there that we 346 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: could identify with. Oh right, yeah, we be in the 347 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,640 Speaker 1: US at the time. Okay, we should just say it. 348 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: They probably wanted a healthy population or a large population 349 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: of white people or people descended from European ancestry, right, 350 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: due to the prevalent racism at the time. What it 351 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: unincorporated mean though, Yeah, unincorporated was the fun one because 352 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:56,959 Speaker 1: that basically gave the US the leeway to say, you 353 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,199 Speaker 1: know what, we're as a part of the US, but 354 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: it's not of the US. It's not in the US. 355 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,719 Speaker 1: It's not a state. We don't claim it, but we 356 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: are going to occupy it in the same way we 357 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: would occupy like in Iraq, for example, where we stuck 358 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: around like we don't want to be here, but we've 359 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: got to be here to keep the peace. And sometimes 360 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 1: that gets complicated over time, right, but as language allows 361 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: for those cases. Yeah, and in this case it's it's 362 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: not a state, but we have to be here to 363 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 1: keep the bird poop piece. It's more of a state 364 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: of mind. It's more of a state of mind. Well 365 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: put so, one of the big questions now when the 366 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: present day would be is this still going on? Does 367 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: the United States still have things like this, and the 368 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: answer is yes, yes, it absolutely does. I mean things 369 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: like the bird poop lack. Yeah, that's still on the books. 370 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: And then there's also the Palmyra a toll and this 371 00:24:55,240 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: is almost south of the Hawaiian Islands, about third the 372 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: way between Hawaii and American Samoa. The nearest continent is 373 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 1: thirty four thousand miles away in the northeast, and it's well, 374 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: technically it's an archipelago, but they're pretty it's pretty sparsely populated, 375 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: caretaker biologist. And it has one of the distinctions of 376 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:28,199 Speaker 1: being a unique incorporated territory. And all that means is 377 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,640 Speaker 1: that it is not a state, nor is it part 378 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: of a state, but it is part of the United 379 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: States but doesn't. But I thought I thought the incorporated 380 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 1: was the one where we have the intention of making 381 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: you a state. Is that language probably shifted over time? 382 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: I know, the stuff can be somewhat malleable, right right, 383 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: And Burnett addresses this too and says, you know, there's 384 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: been a lot of controversy and discussion about what this 385 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: means legally speaking, and in some cases this is a 386 00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 1: very very divisive issue, and she points this out as 387 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: well that in the case of Palmyra, this sounds strange, right, 388 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: because didn't we just say that incorporated is meant to 389 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: imply that this area, whatever this piece of land is, 390 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: is on the way to statehood, to being the fifty 391 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 1: first state or something. Actually found somebody in a message 392 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: board just now putting it pretty well when saying that 393 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: it is considered an integral part of the United States 394 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: that in some way very much matters to our identity 395 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: and possibly commerce in any number of ways. But Palmyra 396 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: in particular is interesting because it was only just bought 397 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: by the Nature Conservancy in two thousand. It was bought 398 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 1: from the fullered Leo family and they actually had recently 399 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: turned down an offer to turn it into a nuclear 400 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: waste site and the casino. Oh sure if they mean 401 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: at the same time or those are two separate offers, 402 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 1: but that'd be interesting. But I'm kind of glad that 403 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: it ended up where where it's because it's beautiful. You 404 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: can look up pictures of it, and I think you 405 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: can visit it. Oh yeah, you can visit a lot 406 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: of these places. They're just so remote and in many 407 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: cases don't have too much of an infrastructure. But you know, 408 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 1: what I like about a nuclear waste casino combo. You're 409 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: gambling either way exactly. So here's another example of how 410 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: this applies to the present day. There is an island 411 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: called Navasa and its ownership is still disputed between the 412 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: US and Haiti. In one case, historically, workers on the 413 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 1: island rioted and killed five supervisors to protest horrendous working conditions, 414 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 1: you know, ultra high prices at a company store, which 415 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: we could talk about in a future episode, docked pay, 416 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 1: long hours, and federal juries. Convicted forty participants in the 417 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: crimes anywhere from murder to rioting through you were convicted 418 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: of murder, sentenced to die. And the problem is that 419 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: this case had really strong racial overtones. The managers were 420 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: all white, the workers were universally black people. The three 421 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: people convicted of death, George Key, Edward Smith, Henry Jones, 422 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: they appealed. They got all the way to the Supreme Court, 423 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: and they didn't dispute the facts of the case, like 424 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 1: the murder of the rioting all that, but they claimed 425 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: that the Guando Island Act was unconstitutional, it didn't jibe 426 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: with the international law standard of territorial acquisition, and Haiti 427 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: had not seeded possession of the island, and so the 428 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: court ruled against them, saying it was constitutional, but they 429 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: didn't state whether or not the island actually belonged to 430 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: the US, just that there was jurisdiction over it. So 431 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: they kind of again tabled and dodged this question, and 432 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: then more legal cases come up. In nineteen ninety seven, 433 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: the US versus Warren confirmed that Navasa has appertained to 434 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: the US since eighteen fifty seven and the country has 435 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: never given it up. So this is still real and 436 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: relevant stuff. And should you find yourself on a desert island, 437 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: check check for guando. Yeah. I wanted to end on 438 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: some advice. Did you know what ambergris is? Yeah, it's 439 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: from the bellies of Oh no, it's it's from Wales. 440 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: Yeah right. They poop it out it like I think 441 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,479 Speaker 1: it's like it's formed in their digestive track and they 442 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: poop it out and it's like really really, really valuable. 443 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: I think it's used to make a perfume refume stuff. 444 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: But if you find bird poop or ambergris on your 445 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: deserted island, give us a call. Let's let's talk. Well, 446 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: we'll do some business. I know a guy. You know, 447 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: I know, a guy who can move poop, and ambergris 448 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: you a guy an ambergris associated. We also do want 449 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: to point out another reason that this stuff matters is 450 00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: that guando mining can be tremendously damaging to an environment. 451 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: We always gotta handles it to downer. That's I know, 452 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: I just you know, raping and pillaging. Uh yeah. And 453 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: one big case of this would be, uh the island 454 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: of Naru, which is the world's smallest, most isolated public 455 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,239 Speaker 1: It's about eight square miles the entire place and as 456 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: as it turns out, neighboring island Zanado. Yeah yeah, yeah, 457 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: from the from the roller skating movie. Right, So so 458 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: the neighboring island of Xanadu. As we assure you this 459 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: is a completely slash, mostly true fact. Their primary export 460 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: is films about roller skating, and Naru's primary export for 461 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: a long time was guano. But we all know that 462 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: it is unsustainable to pin an entire nation's economy on 463 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: a single export. So should you find yourself in uh 464 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: in possession of a desert island, and you want to 465 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: call Noel and I for legal advice, we will gladly 466 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: inform you that we are not lawyers, but we'd love 467 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: to visit you. Hit us up at Ridiculous at HowStuffWorks 468 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: dot com. You can also find us on social media 469 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: via Facebook, Instagram. We've got a old Friendster page from 470 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: the early two thousands that's still kicking. We've got a 471 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: Ello yeah Ello Yeah, yeah, I had one of those. Uh, 472 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: and we do too, Ello dot ridiculous dot never mind. 473 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: Did you mess with Ello? Yeah? Yeah, briefly because it 474 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: was like the low the low maintenance social network. Yeah, 475 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: it was this low maintenance social network, and it turned 476 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: out that, uh, it became very low maintenance because no 477 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: one uses it. Well, that's not around anymore. We do 478 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: have Facebook, we have Instagram. We're still you know, dicking 479 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: around with our Pinterest board. We go back and forth, 480 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: you know, it's like, should we get a Pinterest board? 481 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: Should we just get a wee to board? Yeah? We 482 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: need some kind of board though in our social media entourage. Um. 483 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: But most importantly, we'll be back soon next week. Maybe 484 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: it's just one more day. I'm not sure where this 485 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: episode falls, but there will be more ridiculous history coming 486 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: your way, and we hope that you will join us there. 487 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: Casey could we have a little island music. For more 488 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 489 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.