WEBVTT - Top Legal Ethics Stories And Cybersecurity Concerns 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:07.680 This is Bloomberg Law. Some complicated international law issues here. 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:11.760 What kind of docket is Chief Justice Roberts facing interviews 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.960 with prominent attorneys and Bloomberg legal experts. Joining me is 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:18.759 Bloomberg New Supreme Court reporter Greg Store, Neil Devon's professor 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:21.880 at William and Mary Law School, and analysis of important 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:25.680 legal issues cases and headlock. She's this essentially the fifth 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:29.120 Circuit haunting. He has presided over a so called hot 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:32.519 bench at the Supreme Court. Bloomberg Law with June Grosso 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:40.640 from Bloomberg Radio. Welcome to Bloomberg Law and Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:43.680 I'm Joe Short's living for June Grosso, coming up on 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.360 the show Green Fraud. Why there will be such a focus? 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.600 In two will also cover the fate of the jail 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:55.120 where Jeffrey Epstein hanged himself, plus combating cybersecurity in the 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:59.680 new year. But first we begin with legal ethics sanctions 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:03.440 for Rudy Giuliani and other attorneys over dismissed election fraud 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:07.200 lawsuits aimed at keeping Donald Trump in office. Topped Bloomberg's 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:11.920 legal ethics headlines for one. Bloomberg Industry Group reporter Melissa 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:14.800 Helen wrote the list. We went through her findings and 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:18.160 looked back on the biggest legal stories in one. When 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:22.800 it comes to ethics, let's start with the election lawsuits. 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.559 Why was that the number one choice? It's an item 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:30.720 that everyone can really associate with, not just attorneys. You know, 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:34.480 we all took part in the election, and the aftermath 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:38.800 was covered widely by the news media. The legal aspect 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:44.280 of it is that attorneys can't file frivolous lawsuits, and 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.760 Giuliani and some of the other attorneys who filed these 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:51.440 lawsuits were found to have filed false in the saving 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:54.040 statements with the course, they didn't back up their seats 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:59.440 with facts, and they were therefore sanctioned and not lightly. 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.320 This one is, as a reporter, really interested me, Melissa. 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:07.720 It has to do with judicial disclosures following a Wall 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:11.280 Street Journal report. Tell us what that report found and 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:16.920 what's happened since. Sure, the report found that one thirty 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:19.800 one judges heard cases in which they are family members 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:23.680 helped stack in companies that were involved in the cases 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:29.560 those judges oversaw. So the House earlier this month voted 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:33.720 on the Courthouse Ethics and Transparency Act um. I think 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:39.560 what really important about this is that if judges appear biased, 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:42.480 our confidence in the rule of law is affected. And 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.480 if we don't have faith in the jendas can carry 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:49.639 out their duties ethically and responsibly, then the judiciary has 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.160 a problem. Melissa Hailin's our guests. We're talking about the 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:56.160 top ethics coverage stories of one that the one you 0:02:56.200 --> 0:03:00.280 have here again was somewhat new to me. Uh, mental 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:04.680 health disparity as it relates to female attorneys. Talk to 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:07.080 me a little bit about what that is, sure, and 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:10.399 you know I've written a bit on mental health. It's 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:15.200 very important in the legal profession because lawyers experienced alcohol 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:20.440 use disorders at star higher rates than other professionals. Also, 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:24.639 they have more significant mental health distress. Now, this particular 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:29.760 study was was very surprising because it showed that women 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:33.720 are suffering more than men. I believe the findings. UM 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:37.240 cited that one third of the women screened versus one 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:41.000 fourth of the men reported high risk drinking. I think 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:46.360 there's a global problem right now. Everyone's been suffering these 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:50.040 past two years from mental health distress through the pandemic. 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:54.160 But so I think this story really is pertinent to everyone, 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:58.040 not just attorneys. This next one caught my attention, and 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:00.720 I find it fascinating because as it's you know, what 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.840 was brought on by remote work in the pandemic, This 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:09.400 whole issue of lawyers working from jurisdictions where they aren't licensed, 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:13.640 that's a fascinating question. In general, In the past, attorneys 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:17.080 were not allowed to work where they weren't licensed. Right now, 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:21.760 anyone can work from anywhere and there's there's really no penalty, 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:26.320 but lawyers could be held ethically liable for doing that. However, 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:32.240 since the pandemic, a number of jurisdictions enacted either legislation 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:37.520 or past advice ethics opinions, including I think New Jersey, 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:41.440 the Columbia, Florida, and Pennsylvania, saying it's okay for attorneys 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:44.160 to work where they live, even if they're not barred there, 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:46.479 as long as they didn't hold themselves out to be 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:50.160 able to practice the law of that jurisdiction. So, for instance, 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:53.480 in New York, UM, a lot of attorneys work in 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:55.720 a bar to New York but live in New Jersey. 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:59.120 So now it's okay for them to be working from 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:01.520 home in New Jersey as long as they're only practicing 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:04.119 New York law. If that's where they're barred. It really 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:08.839 reflects kind of a general shift in thinking about, you know, 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:12.080 the legal professions, which really based on what clients and 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:15.400 the consumers wants. It's fine for them where you know, 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:17.200 it doesn't matter where their attorney is, as long as 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:21.240 they're doing competent, diligent work. Melissa Helen as Augusta. She 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:23.760 is a reporter with the Bloomberg Industry Group. Final question 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.719 has to do with the big headlines of the year. Uh, 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.640 this one has to do with the Varsity Blues case. 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:35.360 What is the ethical question there? The ethical question really was, 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:42.640 I suppose honesty. Um. Gordon Kaplan, he's a former had 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:49.120 Wilkie far he was found to have engaged in misconduct 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:53.679 when he paid seventy five dollars for his daughter to 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:58.000 help gain admission into college. And I think, you know, 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:00.679 I'm not sure whether he was the only only involved. 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:04.279 There were celebrities. I think, you know, actors Lori Laughlin 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:06.880 who are also involved and spent some time in jail. 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:13.280 And Um, I think with Kaplan, what was significant was 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:16.520 although he was suspended, he wasn't dis barred. I believe 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:21.320 a number of attorneys thought maybe this was it was 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:23.520 possible he would be this barred, but he did show. 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.240 I remember reading the opinion remorse a lot of remorse 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:29.320 for his actions, and it was believable. And this is 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:35.080 a big thing in um and lawyer um discipline remorse 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:38.839 and if you're if you're if the judges can believe 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.080 that you feel bad about what you did, it's possible 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:45.320 that your sanction will be a lessons. Melissa haman reporter 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:47.720 with the Bloomberg Industry Group, appreciate you taking time and 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.960 joining us on Bloomberg Law. Thank you for having me joke. 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:55.160 There were a number of ransomware attacks in one and 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:57.960 there's expected to be no shortage of them in two. 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.240 Businesses will be grappling at them. Is they raise all 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:04.880 sorts of legal issues. Veronica Glick is a partner at 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:07.360 Mayor Brown's Washington, d C. Office and a member of 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:11.560 the firm's national security and cybersecurity and data privacy practices. 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.720 She joined me to discuss the growing threat. What does 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:17.120 it look like to be attacked? And I guess if 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:19.360 we broke it down by time, you know, the first hour, 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:22.880 the first seventy two hours, the first week. Ransomware is 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:25.320 a type of malware that locks up systems for the 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:29.160 purpose of extortion. Handling these kind of incidents is very complicated. 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:33.520 You're often managing a range of legal, technical, and reputational 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:37.600 considerations on a very short time frame. One common misunderstanding 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:40.560 is that in this first few hours you know what's 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:42.840 going on, what data has been impacted, and maybe sharing 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:46.480 that information with with regulators or consumers. That's actually quite rare. 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:50.160 So in those first few hours, generally you're mobilizing your 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:53.760 team and just making sure that you have very basic 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:56.520 understanding of the facts and that your communications are secure. 0:07:56.840 --> 0:08:00.320 Within those first seventy two hours, you're still really just 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.240 trying to get your arms around the fact. Some jurisdictions 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.720 have a very quick timeline for notifications, so g DPR 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.640 is a well known example of that. Some companies will 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.960 be having those initial heads up communications with regulators, and 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:15.880 there's some contractual notifications as well to have a quick 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:18.760 turn and then again within that first seventy two hours, 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:21.520 there it may make sense to communicate with law enforcement 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:26.800 and have other certain external communications. But particular challenge with 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:31.760 ransomware is depending on the deadline that the ransomware actors provided. 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.240 At this point, already you may have to have a 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.080 decision on the strategy around a gage with a threat 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.840 actor and whether you're going to be communicating with them 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:42.319 at this point. Veronica Glick is our guest. She's a 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:44.520 partner at Mayor Brown's Wanting to d C office. She 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.360 also serves on a pro bono basis as Deputy Chief 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:51.040 Council for Cybersecurity and National Security to the US Cyberspace 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:54.960 Silarium Commission, bipartisan commission established by Congress to develop a 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:58.439 comprehensive strategy to defend the US from significant attacks and 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:01.840 cyber space. Tell us about this commission and the work 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.400 being done there. So it's been very inspiring to see 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:08.200 a collaborative by partisan process in action that we've seen 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:11.360 with the Hilarium Commission. It's truly impressive how many of 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:14.800 the Commission's recommendations have moved forward into law or or 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:17.960 making those steps. For those interested in this topic, I 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.239 highly recommend taking a look at the report and subsequent 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.360 white papers that the Commission has put forward. What are 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:28.719 your thoughts about reporting requirements and or regulations? I mean, 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:31.719 because so often, as we all know, when there is 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:35.319 a ransomware attack, most times very few people ever learn 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.120 about it right, and I think we can expect to 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:42.320 see in addition to hyper cyber standards, increased cyber reporting 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:46.800 and increased information sharing, there's the increased effort and attention. 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:49.600 As you mentioned, ransomware has really ramped up, and there's 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:53.240 attention to that issue now on reporting. Even though mandatory 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:55.400 reporting requirements didn't make it into the n d a 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.199 A this year, there appears to be by partisan support. 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.360 So I think it's reasonable to expect that some requirements 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.360 will be developed and those will most likely first apply 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:08.280 to critical infrastructure in industries. Let's say with you know, 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.360 the meat supplier JBS or the colonial pipeline, if we 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:15.520 had some reporting requirements or regulations, what would have happened 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:17.880 or could have happened or should have happened. There are 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:21.760 right now some reporting requirements that apply depending on what 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.400 sector you're in. This is not something completely new, it's 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:27.880 more of an increasing trend. And practically speaking, what this 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:32.120 means is going towards that very quick coordination that's required 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:35.720 when a ransomware attack happens, so at the very outset 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:39.920 when you're trying to gather information. In fact, whatever sector 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.839 you're in should be aware of which agencies you should 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:45.640 be reporting to if you meet that notification requirement. So 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.400 it's important to be aware of the notification requirements trigger 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.440 and who your point of contact would be at that agency. Okay, 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:55.400 let's say we have ten ransomware attacks. How many of 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:59.599 those ten are an employee clicking on an email or 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:01.520 an attack meant they shouldn't click on, and how many 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:04.840 our back end intrusions in practice, I think it's actually 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.360 very hard to tell because a lot of its relies 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:11.360 and self reporting. But from what we've seen a lot 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.319 of the guidance coming out of cybersecurity firm and also 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:17.640 from the government, So for example, to stop ransomware websites 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:22.320 provides guidance. You'll see a combination of focus on some 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:26.080 of those key steps and multifacro authentications, patching systems, but 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:29.600 also employees clicking on phishing emails. Depends how you look 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:31.640 at the numbers. It can vary based on the size 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:34.360 of your business and the industry that you're in. However 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.880 you look at it, fishing still appears to be quite 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:42.040 a significant percentage of the initial intrusion points. As we 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:45.320 look at two. Have we learned from the lessons of 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:49.480 the past or not going forward. I think we continue 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.559 to see ransomare attacks are increasing, but there's also an 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:55.760 increased domestic and global effort to try to reduce this threat. 0:11:56.200 --> 0:12:00.480 That includes global law enforcement coordination, efforts to build stronger 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:05.000 cyber resilience, and also improved information staring. Veronica Glick, partner 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.680 at Mayor Brown in Washington, d C's office. We appreciate 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:10.880 you joining us today on Bloomberg Law. Thank you very much. 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.520 That's it for this edition of the Bloomberg Law Show. 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:16.200 Remember you can always get the latest legal news on 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:21.000 our Bloomberg Law podcast. You can find them on Apple podcast, Spotify, 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:27.280 and on www dot Bloomberg dot com slash podcast Slash Law, 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.280 and remember to tune into The Bloomberg Law Show every 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.880 night at ten pm Wall Street Time. The show is 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:36.199 produced by Eric Mallow for Bloomberg Radio. I'm Joe Shortsleeve. 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.320 Thank you for listening, and remember to tune into the 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:44.959 next edition of Bloomberg Law right here on Bloomberg Radio.