1 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law. Some complicated international law issues here. 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: What kind of docket is Chief Justice Roberts facing interviews 3 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: with prominent attorneys and Bloomberg legal experts. Joining me is 4 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: Bloomberg New Supreme Court reporter Greg Store, Neil Devon's professor 5 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: at William and Mary Law School, and analysis of important 6 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: legal issues cases and headlock. She's this essentially the fifth 7 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: Circuit haunting. He has presided over a so called hot 8 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: bench at the Supreme Court. Bloomberg Law with June Grosso 9 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: from Bloomberg Radio. Welcome to Bloomberg Law and Bloomberg Radio. 10 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: I'm Joe Short's living for June Grosso, coming up on 11 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: the show Green Fraud. Why there will be such a focus? 12 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: In two will also cover the fate of the jail 13 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: where Jeffrey Epstein hanged himself, plus combating cybersecurity in the 14 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: new year. But first we begin with legal ethics sanctions 15 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: for Rudy Giuliani and other attorneys over dismissed election fraud 16 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: lawsuits aimed at keeping Donald Trump in office. Topped Bloomberg's 17 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: legal ethics headlines for one. Bloomberg Industry Group reporter Melissa 18 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: Helen wrote the list. We went through her findings and 19 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: looked back on the biggest legal stories in one. When 20 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: it comes to ethics, let's start with the election lawsuits. 21 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,559 Speaker 1: Why was that the number one choice? It's an item 22 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: that everyone can really associate with, not just attorneys. You know, 23 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: we all took part in the election, and the aftermath 24 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: was covered widely by the news media. The legal aspect 25 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: of it is that attorneys can't file frivolous lawsuits, and 26 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: Giuliani and some of the other attorneys who filed these 27 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: lawsuits were found to have filed false in the saving 28 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: statements with the course, they didn't back up their seats 29 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: with facts, and they were therefore sanctioned and not lightly. 30 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: This one is, as a reporter, really interested me, Melissa. 31 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: It has to do with judicial disclosures following a Wall 32 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: Street Journal report. Tell us what that report found and 33 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: what's happened since. Sure, the report found that one thirty 34 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: one judges heard cases in which they are family members 35 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: helped stack in companies that were involved in the cases 36 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: those judges oversaw. So the House earlier this month voted 37 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: on the Courthouse Ethics and Transparency Act um. I think 38 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: what really important about this is that if judges appear biased, 39 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: our confidence in the rule of law is affected. And 40 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: if we don't have faith in the jendas can carry 41 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: out their duties ethically and responsibly, then the judiciary has 42 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: a problem. Melissa Hailin's our guests. We're talking about the 43 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: top ethics coverage stories of one that the one you 44 00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: have here again was somewhat new to me. Uh, mental 45 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: health disparity as it relates to female attorneys. Talk to 46 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: me a little bit about what that is, sure, and 47 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,399 Speaker 1: you know I've written a bit on mental health. It's 48 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: very important in the legal profession because lawyers experienced alcohol 49 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: use disorders at star higher rates than other professionals. Also, 50 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: they have more significant mental health distress. Now, this particular 51 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: study was was very surprising because it showed that women 52 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: are suffering more than men. I believe the findings. UM 53 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: cited that one third of the women screened versus one 54 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: fourth of the men reported high risk drinking. I think 55 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: there's a global problem right now. Everyone's been suffering these 56 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: past two years from mental health distress through the pandemic. 57 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: But so I think this story really is pertinent to everyone, 58 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: not just attorneys. This next one caught my attention, and 59 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: I find it fascinating because as it's you know, what 60 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: was brought on by remote work in the pandemic, This 61 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: whole issue of lawyers working from jurisdictions where they aren't licensed, 62 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: that's a fascinating question. In general, In the past, attorneys 63 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: were not allowed to work where they weren't licensed. Right now, 64 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: anyone can work from anywhere and there's there's really no penalty, 65 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: but lawyers could be held ethically liable for doing that. However, 66 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: since the pandemic, a number of jurisdictions enacted either legislation 67 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: or past advice ethics opinions, including I think New Jersey, 68 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: the Columbia, Florida, and Pennsylvania, saying it's okay for attorneys 69 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: to work where they live, even if they're not barred there, 70 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: as long as they didn't hold themselves out to be 71 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 1: able to practice the law of that jurisdiction. So, for instance, 72 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 1: in New York, UM, a lot of attorneys work in 73 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: a bar to New York but live in New Jersey. 74 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: So now it's okay for them to be working from 75 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: home in New Jersey as long as they're only practicing 76 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,119 Speaker 1: New York law. If that's where they're barred. It really 77 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: reflects kind of a general shift in thinking about, you know, 78 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: the legal professions, which really based on what clients and 79 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: the consumers wants. It's fine for them where you know, 80 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter where their attorney is, as long as 81 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: they're doing competent, diligent work. Melissa Helen as Augusta. She 82 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: is a reporter with the Bloomberg Industry Group. Final question 83 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 1: has to do with the big headlines of the year. Uh, 84 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: this one has to do with the Varsity Blues case. 85 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: What is the ethical question there? The ethical question really was, 86 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: I suppose honesty. Um. Gordon Kaplan, he's a former had 87 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: Wilkie far he was found to have engaged in misconduct 88 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:53,679 Speaker 1: when he paid seventy five dollars for his daughter to 89 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: help gain admission into college. And I think, you know, 90 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,679 Speaker 1: I'm not sure whether he was the only only involved. 91 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: There were celebrities. I think, you know, actors Lori Laughlin 92 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: who are also involved and spent some time in jail. 93 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: And Um, I think with Kaplan, what was significant was 94 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: although he was suspended, he wasn't dis barred. I believe 95 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: a number of attorneys thought maybe this was it was 96 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: possible he would be this barred, but he did show. 97 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: I remember reading the opinion remorse a lot of remorse 98 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: for his actions, and it was believable. And this is 99 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: a big thing in um and lawyer um discipline remorse 100 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 1: and if you're if you're if the judges can believe 101 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: that you feel bad about what you did, it's possible 102 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: that your sanction will be a lessons. Melissa haman reporter 103 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 1: with the Bloomberg Industry Group, appreciate you taking time and 104 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: joining us on Bloomberg Law. Thank you for having me joke. 105 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: There were a number of ransomware attacks in one and 106 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: there's expected to be no shortage of them in two. 107 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: Businesses will be grappling at them. Is they raise all 108 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: sorts of legal issues. Veronica Glick is a partner at 109 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: Mayor Brown's Washington, d C. Office and a member of 110 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: the firm's national security and cybersecurity and data privacy practices. 111 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: She joined me to discuss the growing threat. What does 112 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: it look like to be attacked? And I guess if 113 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: we broke it down by time, you know, the first hour, 114 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: the first seventy two hours, the first week. Ransomware is 115 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: a type of malware that locks up systems for the 116 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: purpose of extortion. Handling these kind of incidents is very complicated. 117 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: You're often managing a range of legal, technical, and reputational 118 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: considerations on a very short time frame. One common misunderstanding 119 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: is that in this first few hours you know what's 120 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: going on, what data has been impacted, and maybe sharing 121 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: that information with with regulators or consumers. That's actually quite rare. 122 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: So in those first few hours, generally you're mobilizing your 123 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: team and just making sure that you have very basic 124 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: understanding of the facts and that your communications are secure. 125 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: Within those first seventy two hours, you're still really just 126 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: trying to get your arms around the fact. Some jurisdictions 127 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: have a very quick timeline for notifications, so g DPR 128 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: is a well known example of that. Some companies will 129 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: be having those initial heads up communications with regulators, and 130 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: there's some contractual notifications as well to have a quick 131 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: turn and then again within that first seventy two hours, 132 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: there it may make sense to communicate with law enforcement 133 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: and have other certain external communications. But particular challenge with 134 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: ransomware is depending on the deadline that the ransomware actors provided. 135 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: At this point, already you may have to have a 136 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: decision on the strategy around a gage with a threat 137 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: actor and whether you're going to be communicating with them 138 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 1: at this point. Veronica Glick is our guest. She's a 139 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: partner at Mayor Brown's Wanting to d C office. She 140 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: also serves on a pro bono basis as Deputy Chief 141 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: Council for Cybersecurity and National Security to the US Cyberspace 142 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: Silarium Commission, bipartisan commission established by Congress to develop a 143 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 1: comprehensive strategy to defend the US from significant attacks and 144 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: cyber space. Tell us about this commission and the work 145 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: being done there. So it's been very inspiring to see 146 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: a collaborative by partisan process in action that we've seen 147 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: with the Hilarium Commission. It's truly impressive how many of 148 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: the Commission's recommendations have moved forward into law or or 149 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 1: making those steps. For those interested in this topic, I 150 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,239 Speaker 1: highly recommend taking a look at the report and subsequent 151 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: white papers that the Commission has put forward. What are 152 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,719 Speaker 1: your thoughts about reporting requirements and or regulations? I mean, 153 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,719 Speaker 1: because so often, as we all know, when there is 154 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 1: a ransomware attack, most times very few people ever learn 155 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: about it right, and I think we can expect to 156 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: see in addition to hyper cyber standards, increased cyber reporting 157 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: and increased information sharing, there's the increased effort and attention. 158 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: As you mentioned, ransomware has really ramped up, and there's 159 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: attention to that issue now on reporting. Even though mandatory 160 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: reporting requirements didn't make it into the n d a 161 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 1: A this year, there appears to be by partisan support. 162 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: So I think it's reasonable to expect that some requirements 163 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: will be developed and those will most likely first apply 164 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: to critical infrastructure in industries. Let's say with you know, 165 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: the meat supplier JBS or the colonial pipeline, if we 166 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: had some reporting requirements or regulations, what would have happened 167 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: or could have happened or should have happened. There are 168 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: right now some reporting requirements that apply depending on what 169 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: sector you're in. This is not something completely new, it's 170 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: more of an increasing trend. And practically speaking, what this 171 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: means is going towards that very quick coordination that's required 172 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: when a ransomware attack happens, so at the very outset 173 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: when you're trying to gather information. In fact, whatever sector 174 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 1: you're in should be aware of which agencies you should 175 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: be reporting to if you meet that notification requirement. So 176 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: it's important to be aware of the notification requirements trigger 177 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: and who your point of contact would be at that agency. Okay, 178 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: let's say we have ten ransomware attacks. How many of 179 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,599 Speaker 1: those ten are an employee clicking on an email or 180 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: an attack meant they shouldn't click on, and how many 181 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: our back end intrusions in practice, I think it's actually 182 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: very hard to tell because a lot of its relies 183 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: and self reporting. But from what we've seen a lot 184 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 1: of the guidance coming out of cybersecurity firm and also 185 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: from the government, So for example, to stop ransomware websites 186 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: provides guidance. You'll see a combination of focus on some 187 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: of those key steps and multifacro authentications, patching systems, but 188 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: also employees clicking on phishing emails. Depends how you look 189 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: at the numbers. It can vary based on the size 190 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: of your business and the industry that you're in. However 191 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: you look at it, fishing still appears to be quite 192 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: a significant percentage of the initial intrusion points. As we 193 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: look at two. Have we learned from the lessons of 194 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: the past or not going forward. I think we continue 195 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: to see ransomare attacks are increasing, but there's also an 196 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: increased domestic and global effort to try to reduce this threat. 197 00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: That includes global law enforcement coordination, efforts to build stronger 198 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: cyber resilience, and also improved information staring. Veronica Glick, partner 199 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: at Mayor Brown in Washington, d C's office. We appreciate 200 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: you joining us today on Bloomberg Law. Thank you very much. 201 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: That's it for this edition of the Bloomberg Law Show. 202 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: Remember you can always get the latest legal news on 203 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: our Bloomberg Law podcast. You can find them on Apple podcast, Spotify, 204 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: and on www dot Bloomberg dot com slash podcast Slash Law, 205 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: and remember to tune into The Bloomberg Law Show every 206 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: night at ten pm Wall Street Time. The show is 207 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 1: produced by Eric Mallow for Bloomberg Radio. I'm Joe Shortsleeve. 208 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening, and remember to tune into the 209 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:44,959 Speaker 1: next edition of Bloomberg Law right here on Bloomberg Radio.