Speaker 1: Hi Katie, Hi Brian. Well, I'm a little sad today
Speaker 1: because you know, summer is my favorite season, and sadly
Speaker 1: it's drawing to an end, and I'm not ready to
Speaker 1: accept that. So I'm coming out to l A, to
Speaker 1: the land of Sunshine, California. Here I come. Are you
Speaker 1: coming to uh to visit me? Of course I plan
Speaker 1: to see while I'm in town, but also Ellie, my
Speaker 1: daughter who lives in Los Angeles. But the real reason
Speaker 1: I'm coming, as much as I love you and Ellie
Speaker 1: my daughter, is to support a cause that's very near
Speaker 1: and dear to my heart and one that I really
Speaker 1: haven't talked about that much on this podcast until today.
Speaker 1: That is That's right in this episode, ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 1: I hope you're going to be excited about this because
Speaker 1: it's something that I'm so passionate about. We'll be diving
Speaker 1: into cancer and cancer research. Many of you might remember
Speaker 1: or that I lost my extraordinary first husband, Jay Monahan,
Speaker 1: to colon cancer twenty years ago, if you can believe that,
Speaker 1: right before his forty second birthday. I was the co
Speaker 1: anchor of the Today Show and many viewers lived the
Speaker 1: experience almost along with me. And just a few years later,
Speaker 1: I lost my sister Emily two pancreatic cancer when she
Speaker 1: was fifty four in a rising star and politics uh
Speaker 1: to tremendous losses for me and my family and Jay's family.
Speaker 1: But what people might not realize, Katie, is that you
Speaker 1: actually turned those tragedies into something more positive because you
Speaker 1: co founded with eight other women this extraordinary organization called
Speaker 1: Stand Up to Cancer. And I was blown away to
Speaker 1: learn that you've raised nearly half a billion dollars since
Speaker 1: it was founded ten years ago. You know, I couldn't
Speaker 1: just rest on my laurels when it came to colin
Speaker 1: oscophees Brian. I felt that so many cans sers deserved
Speaker 1: our attention, and the ladies at Stand Up to Cancer
Speaker 1: and the entire organization, because after all, it does take
Speaker 1: a village, will not rest until more money is raised.
Speaker 1: And the day after this episode drops, I'll be in
Speaker 1: l A to mark the ten year anniversary of Stand
Speaker 1: Up to Cancer and the live telecast that we've been
Speaker 1: having every other year since its inceptions, So if you'd
Speaker 1: like to tune in, the telecast will be broadcast on
Speaker 1: seventy broadcast and cable networks as well as streaming platforms
Speaker 1: and online So honestly, if you're anywhere near a screen
Speaker 1: or even a phone, you are not going to be
Speaker 1: able to avoid this telecast on Friday Night, and just
Speaker 1: as an additional sweetener for people. In addition to these
Speaker 1: extraordinary stories an amazing sinus, the telecast is also going
Speaker 1: to feature a lot of star power, including the likes
Speaker 1: of Bradley Cooper and Reese Weatherspoon and ma Hershela Ali.
Speaker 1: I should probably explain, Brian to our listeners how Stand
Speaker 1: Up to Cancer puts the dollars it raises to work.
Speaker 1: Our goal is to really accelerate groundbreaking, promising cancer research
Speaker 1: and mandate we don't encourage, we require collaboration instead of competition.
Speaker 1: So we have set up dream teams of scientists who
Speaker 1: are focused on various cancers like pancreatic cancer or nanotechnology.
Speaker 1: Epigenetics have become quite the scientific researcher, right, Brian, and
Speaker 1: these dream teams are basically a scientific task force and
Speaker 1: the ideas to get them uh these top researchers from
Speaker 1: different institutions to work together so they can develop new
Speaker 1: approaches and new treatments for this terrible disease that claims
Speaker 1: far too many lives every single year. And later in
Speaker 1: the show, we're going to hear from a top oncologist
Speaker 1: who has contributed enormously to Stand Up to Cancers research efforts.
Speaker 1: He answers a lot of your questions and mind Katie
Speaker 1: about the future of cancer research, the most promising therapies, now,
Speaker 1: what you should do if you're diagnosed with cancer, etcetera, etcetera,
Speaker 1: And he will give us the big picture. Bill Nelson,
Speaker 1: I have a little crush on Bill. Don't tell him,
Speaker 1: by the way, Brian. But another person I have a
Speaker 1: little crush on is Matthew McConaughey. He's been such an
Speaker 1: important supporter of Stand Up to Cancer and we're so
Speaker 1: lucky to have so many celebrities stand with us. And
Speaker 1: that's because, what can I say, Brian, stars, they're just
Speaker 1: like us, they too have been affected by cancer. So
Speaker 1: I recently chatted with Matthew about why this work has
Speaker 1: become so important to him and how it's affected him personally.
Speaker 1: Tell me why you wanted to get involved with Stand
Speaker 1: Up to Cancer? Um, I think I was involved in
Speaker 1: Stand Up to Cancer actually before cancer affected people very
Speaker 1: close to me. So Lisa Boston asked me to be
Speaker 1: involved in two thousand fifteen with the whole campaign, and
Speaker 1: I said yes. And then shortly after that, I believe
Speaker 1: is when it actually cancer did affect some people in
Speaker 1: my near circumference, very very good friend of mine, one
Speaker 1: of my best friends of twenty years um got cancer,
Speaker 1: and then um someone in my family got it. And
Speaker 1: you know when it happened. Uh want it scary too?
Speaker 1: You want to go, well, I need. I want to
Speaker 1: get all the information I can. You know what experts
Speaker 1: can help me, can help. Then It's amazing how when
Speaker 1: a cancer diagnosis affects someone you know and love, or
Speaker 1: even yourself, it's you're suddenly immersed in this new world
Speaker 1: of terms and sort of science and drugs and alternative
Speaker 1: therapies and approaches. It can be so overwhelming, can it? Yes?
Speaker 1: And I think it's hard, especially if you're going through
Speaker 1: it you're self sometimes. I know, in the case of
Speaker 1: my husband, when he was diagnosed, as smart as he was,
Speaker 1: he didn't really want to know. He didn't want to
Speaker 1: see the research for the science and his statistics. He didn't,
Speaker 1: so you did, and then you helped shepherd and guide
Speaker 1: him from there. Okay, yes, And I think that's the case.
Speaker 1: I think some patients want to know and some patients don't.
Speaker 1: And did you feel like you needed to be that
Speaker 1: sort of explorer and you needed to really understand it
Speaker 1: so you could help the people you love? That That's
Speaker 1: exactly I felt like I was the one who needed
Speaker 1: to do the expiration. I was the one who needs
Speaker 1: to get the access to the expert, get the knowledge,
Speaker 1: gather it as much and fore and wide as I could,
Speaker 1: and then sit down and go over options, and go
Speaker 1: over practicalities, and go over long shots and go over repercussion.
Speaker 1: And you do this. This is you know, it goes
Speaker 1: to that question this makes in life? But there may
Speaker 1: be more pain than you have that question quality of
Speaker 1: life versus quantity Along the way and um, different questions arise,
Speaker 1: And I was I've been in a position where I
Speaker 1: was the hunter and gatherer of the information and went
Speaker 1: to stand up to cancer to find out so much
Speaker 1: of that information. And then, as you know, it's up
Speaker 1: to the individual has it. It's there there. It becomes
Speaker 1: down to that personal choice, which is, you know, not
Speaker 1: ours unless we're the unless we're the one to make,
Speaker 1: which is, what do you want to do, and there's
Speaker 1: many there's many signposts along the way. Here's where we are,
Speaker 1: here's the new here's a new evolution in the disease.
Speaker 1: What do you want to do, Here's what we can do,
Speaker 1: what would you like to do? In some cases, there's
Speaker 1: not a lot that can be done, and it's very
Speaker 1: difficult in this day and age when there's so many
Speaker 1: you know, medications and science has taken us so far
Speaker 1: that many of these cancers continue to be so vaccine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, look, there's obviously there's not a magic pill. Um,
Speaker 1: there's not that major break that says we've figured it out,
Speaker 1: we know how to cure all these many types of cancer. Um.
Speaker 1: And so that's frustrating, um, but it's a reality. And
Speaker 1: as you know, you gotta get on with the reality
Speaker 1: that we if we the people's shepherding and helping out
Speaker 1: those with cancer, if we get over the frustrated, it's
Speaker 1: no help to the to the to the to the
Speaker 1: victim or the one with cancer. So I just I
Speaker 1: just personally try to take a very practical approach and say,
Speaker 1: let me keep pounding on trying to do the homework.
Speaker 1: Let me personally talk to that their doctor along the
Speaker 1: way and get let me can give me the straight
Speaker 1: nuts emotionally along the way. What what are we really
Speaker 1: talking about? What's the you know what? Give me percentages?
Speaker 1: Where are we? And let's be real. And both of
Speaker 1: both the people that my friend and the family member
Speaker 1: that I worked wanted to know the straight stuff. One
Speaker 1: of them towards the end didn't want to know it anymore.
Speaker 1: So not I don't want to hear anymore. Just let
Speaker 1: me enjoy in my ignorance right now. I don't want
Speaker 1: to hear anymore the stats for me. The other one
Speaker 1: wanted to know the whole way, the whole way until
Speaker 1: until they actually ended up they did move on. I
Speaker 1: was gonna ask you about the outcome for both of
Speaker 1: these people. We'll both have moved on. They're no longer
Speaker 1: with us in this life on this earth. Um. Besides,
Speaker 1: as you know, with just the disease of cancer, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of personal want to needs that anyone on
Speaker 1: the way out once or doesn't want, um do they
Speaker 1: it was there are things incomplete in their life for
Speaker 1: their relationships that were incomplete that they just want to have.
Speaker 1: Let me just finish that off. Then there's the question
Speaker 1: of you know, how much pain do you want to
Speaker 1: go through? Is more time I'm worth more pain? Or no,
Speaker 1: I want to fight it till the end. I'll go
Speaker 1: through whatever pain because I may be able to break
Speaker 1: through it. How long did you keep fighting on that?
Speaker 1: How long do you go? You know what is too
Speaker 1: much pain? Let me, let let me, let me, let
Speaker 1: me fade out? UM. And then you know you're waiting
Speaker 1: every day and you think something else might come off
Speaker 1: and there is a new break through and the hey,
Speaker 1: we could try this, and then you try all you
Speaker 1: can and so many people have survived, Like I said,
Speaker 1: fifteen and a half million survivors running around living their
Speaker 1: life now UM. And I think less cases now in
Speaker 1: the United States, and it used to be UM. So
Speaker 1: you hope, you know that you're that the person you're
Speaker 1: shepherding is going to be one of those fifteen and
Speaker 1: a half million, or the next, the next one. UM.
Speaker 1: At the same time, I mean this, it's it's the
Speaker 1: son of a bitch man. This thing, it's a beast,
Speaker 1: and we don't have it last so yet. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's like I said at the beginning, and it's helpful
Speaker 1: to whoever as it and it's helpful to ever of
Speaker 1: us is helping do the homework and shepherd our love
Speaker 1: to one out to know that someplace like Stand Up
Speaker 1: to Cancer is a place. It's going to get you
Speaker 1: all the information you can get, so you don't have
Speaker 1: a black hole there once in case they do move on.
Speaker 1: Oh should I? Would I? And could I have? That's
Speaker 1: the way I felt with my husband. You know, I
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure I did everything I possibly could.
Speaker 1: So this was before Stand Up to Cancer even existed,
Speaker 1: but I was calling pharmaceutical companies in Israel. I was
Speaker 1: doing so much research and calling universities and organizations and
Speaker 1: hoping that we could manage his disease long enough that
Speaker 1: another thing, another breakthrough would occur. And I think that's
Speaker 1: how you operate when you're trying to help someone you
Speaker 1: love with you were operating like that. At the same
Speaker 1: time this, Your husband was like, I don't want to
Speaker 1: I don't want to know anymore. Don't tell me about it, kay,
Speaker 1: Do you do the do the homework for me? Let me?
Speaker 1: Was he saying, just tell me where to go, but
Speaker 1: I don't want to know all of them? He didn't
Speaker 1: really say it specifically, But I also shielded him from
Speaker 1: a lot, which now I have some regrets about because
Speaker 1: I think I didn't want to tell him how bad
Speaker 1: it was, because he was so advanced when he was diagnosed.
Speaker 1: You know, he had stage four calling cancer and he
Speaker 1: had tumors all over his liver and it was just
Speaker 1: so bleak that I made the choice of feeling that
Speaker 1: I didn't want to ruin whatever time he had left.
Speaker 1: But that really wasn't my decision to make, so now
Speaker 1: I feel bad about it. Maybe it was, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I know when you played ron Woodriff and Dallas Buyer's Club,
Speaker 1: the HIV positive person who told I was told you
Speaker 1: at thirty days, which was such an unbelievable, extraordinary performance.
Speaker 1: I know you won an Academy Award for that, but
Speaker 1: you actually channeled a little bit of int of yours
Speaker 1: who you saw dying of cancer. Oh yeah, yeah, yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: that would be a third that was that was pre
Speaker 1: two thousand and fifteen. Yes, indeed, it was a good
Speaker 1: friend of mine who slowly can't got the best of him.
Speaker 1: Um and he was one of those fighters. He was
Speaker 1: one of those you know, uh till the bitter in teeth,
Speaker 1: non growling streaming como gritting to youth, I'm going to
Speaker 1: make it, which is what he he gnawed at the situation,
Speaker 1: did not want to go gently into this good night
Speaker 1: going to fade out at all, um, And he didn't
Speaker 1: until his his body broke down enough where his willpower
Speaker 1: couldn't overcome it. But you used him in a way,
Speaker 1: the image of him to model a little bit from performance.
Speaker 1: I don't know how literal that would that was. It
Speaker 1: was just somebody, uh in my life and a friend
Speaker 1: who had come and he had always been a fighter
Speaker 1: when before he was sick, and then afterwards I just
Speaker 1: remember there's that he was. You know, he was like
Speaker 1: a like a coyote and he just like if if
Speaker 1: he was stuck, he was willing to no off his
Speaker 1: leg to get out of the trap. He was willing
Speaker 1: to do to do anything. And so he went pretty quickly,
Speaker 1: you know, like he I saw him very shortly before
Speaker 1: he moved on, and he still had as much fighting
Speaker 1: him as he did you know, eight months earlier. Um,
Speaker 1: But it was it was more his willpower to say no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not going, and if I do go, it's going
Speaker 1: to be on the last drop of of life that
Speaker 1: I have. Is there something about stand Up to Cancer
Speaker 1: and the way it's sort of operating and focusing on
Speaker 1: collaboration versus competition and really trying to change how cancer
Speaker 1: research is on that made you want to support this
Speaker 1: organization because there are a lot of groups doing great
Speaker 1: work when it comes to cancer. I mean, look all
Speaker 1: medicine and medicine should not, nor has ever invented to
Speaker 1: become a competition. And we know rightfully so that it's
Speaker 1: also a big business, which makes it a competition in places.
Speaker 1: Um Uh, you know it's it's like it's like teaching,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's like if you have
Speaker 1: a if you have a good idea, a good class,
Speaker 1: scale it out, share it for free. Come on, what's
Speaker 1: the end goal? Um? So the collaboration that Stand Up
Speaker 1: uses is how it ought to be. Um, I wouldn't be.
Speaker 1: You know, there are some people that, yes, compete, they
Speaker 1: still do some good work, but it shouldn't be a
Speaker 1: private club. You know that that somebody who's not in
Speaker 1: that club does not have access to the expertise that
Speaker 1: they could offer. So, you know, and we don't have it.
Speaker 1: It's not figured out yet, So we need a lot
Speaker 1: more collaboration. No one's got that, Like I said, no
Speaker 1: one's got the magic pill, you know, So let's go
Speaker 1: far and wide because all you know, all bets are
Speaker 1: still on the table for what's the best way and
Speaker 1: how to handle and diagnose and treat different type of
Speaker 1: cancers are For so long, research was siloed and people
Speaker 1: did not share their knowledge or test results or tissue samples.
Speaker 1: And the thought is, if we do collaborateive scientists share
Speaker 1: what they're doing, then if two heads are better than one,
Speaker 1: ten heads are better than two, and we can get
Speaker 1: treatments to patients in a much faster at a much
Speaker 1: faster rate. That's just common sense, you know. I know
Speaker 1: that your most famous line from your very first movie,
Speaker 1: which I rewatched days and dazed and confused. This morning
Speaker 1: we watched some clips. It's a good way to start today.
Speaker 1: You just got to keep living, man. Is that is
Speaker 1: that your message to people who are fighting cancer? Too? Sure?
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's a line that that is universal.
Speaker 1: You had a specific to everybody. They can imply to
Speaker 1: their own lives however they want to um. It was
Speaker 1: inspired because my father moved on and it was about
Speaker 1: how I was how I was dealing with my relationship
Speaker 1: with him, and he had just moved on. So that
Speaker 1: was five days into your shooting. That five days into
Speaker 1: shooting Day's Confuse was my first acting job. My father
Speaker 1: moved on and uh I went home for that weekend,
Speaker 1: spent the weekend. We had to wake and the whole
Speaker 1: family should get you back there to work. Um, nothing
Speaker 1: you can do here, go back to it. And I
Speaker 1: think it was like the first night we were back.
Speaker 1: It was seen on the football field and I had
Speaker 1: been obviously, you know, doing some soul searching with how
Speaker 1: to what it all meant. Physically was gone, but they
Speaker 1: just keep living. Came from well you still keep someone
Speaker 1: spirit alive even though maybe physically they're not here, not personally,
Speaker 1: you know. For me, just keep living. I applied to
Speaker 1: many parts of my life, and I think everyone can
Speaker 1: apply it in their own different way. It's just keep living. Mean,
Speaker 1: I want to like that friend of mine that's going,
Speaker 1: I want to live as long I want to live.
Speaker 1: I'll take quantity over quality. I don't care how much
Speaker 1: pain them in. I want to live longer. For some
Speaker 1: it is others that just keep living choice Maybe you
Speaker 1: know what enough of the pain right now. I'm I'm
Speaker 1: I'm I'm ready. I'm talking about quality of life. And
Speaker 1: I don't want to take the pain that I'm in
Speaker 1: right now for another however, many weeks, days, months. I
Speaker 1: don't want the quantity. I don't want more quantity. I'm
Speaker 1: good right now, And that's up to each individual to say.
Speaker 1: And it's also, as you know, it's it's a conversation
Speaker 1: that we need to have with our friends and loved
Speaker 1: ones before they're so sick, before they're in that much pain,
Speaker 1: to have it, you know, and at a time where
Speaker 1: there is lucid as possible as a society, we have
Speaker 1: such hard time talking about death. Yeah, and yet it's
Speaker 1: one of the things, one of the guarantees, you know.
Speaker 1: I wish we didn't have such a hard time talking
Speaker 1: about it. I think sometimes talking about it it feels
Speaker 1: like a concession to some people, you know, I've got
Speaker 1: to I've got a woman very close to me who
Speaker 1: who um beat three types of cancer and didn't tell
Speaker 1: didn't tell me she had it until her third one
Speaker 1: and never went to doctors, And what were you doing
Speaker 1: for what she was taking to aspirin? But her attitude
Speaker 1: and her mental makeup had so much to do where
Speaker 1: they're making it. Um, she was actually stayed in denial.
Speaker 1: So I think talking about death or even sometimes people
Speaker 1: going to see a doctor to concede and go I
Speaker 1: need to get some help can make sometimes make our
Speaker 1: our our our immune and innate reaction be like, oh
Speaker 1: now I've now I'm a victim. Now I'm now I'm
Speaker 1: conceding that death is out there, and I think something
Speaker 1: that feels on people feel weak about that. But um,
Speaker 1: I think it's good if we can talk about it
Speaker 1: up front as early as possible, because it's happening one
Speaker 1: day or another. It's happening. Well, as somebody involved with
Speaker 1: Stand Up to cancer, I can't tell you how much
Speaker 1: we appreciate your lending your name and celebrity to this
Speaker 1: because I think it inspires other people and makes them
Speaker 1: want to get involved. And if they see someone they
Speaker 1: admire and like kind of standing up for stand up,
Speaker 1: hopefully they'll follow suits. So thank you for doing that. Well,
Speaker 1: I've got a personal investment in it people in my
Speaker 1: own life. So who does that? You know? One and
Speaker 1: two men one in three women will be diagnosed in
Speaker 1: their lifetimes, So like it or not. There's very few
Speaker 1: people escape it, so thank you, thank you for doing it.
Speaker 1: My pleasure. That wraps things up with a one and
Speaker 1: only Matthew McConaughey, folks, and we're going to take a
Speaker 1: quick break and we'll be back with our second guest,
Speaker 1: Dr Bill Nelson, from the Sydney Kimmel Comprehensive Cancer Center
Speaker 1: at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore. We're back, you know, Brian.
Speaker 1: As much as I appreciate celebrities like Matthew McConaughey who
Speaker 1: lend their star support to this cause, some of the
Speaker 1: real heroes in this fight, I'm sure Matthew would agree,
Speaker 1: are the scientists and doctors and clinicians who are working
Speaker 1: day in and day out to find new ways to
Speaker 1: help patients fighting cancer. I disagree. No'm for our second
Speaker 1: and final chapter today, we're going to talk with one
Speaker 1: of these heroes, Dr Bill Nelson. As you mentioned, he's
Speaker 1: nationally recognized as a physician and scientist, and he specializes
Speaker 1: in treating and researching prostate cancer. In fact, he discovered
Speaker 1: the most common genome alteration in prostate cancer, which has
Speaker 1: led to more diagnostic tests for the disease. Talk about impressive.
Speaker 1: He's the director of the Sydney Kimmel Brands of Cancer
Speaker 1: Center at Johns Hopkins and he is also on the
Speaker 1: Stand Up to Cancer Scientific Advisory Committee. So in our
Speaker 1: conversation with Dr Nelson, we dig into his work fighting
Speaker 1: all kinds of cancer and we talked about why the
Speaker 1: approach of Stand Up to Cancer is so unique and
Speaker 1: has already yielded so many promising therapies. Bill, let's talk
Speaker 1: about the model of Stand Up to Cancer and from
Speaker 1: a scientist perspective, how is it different and why in
Speaker 1: your view is it a positive thing? Well, I think
Speaker 1: that the thing that attracted so much of the scientific
Speaker 1: and cancer research community initially was its ambition. These women
Speaker 1: had gotten together, as you know, and they wanted to
Speaker 1: do something bold, and they wanted to do something big.
Speaker 1: And their thought was that if everyone could come together
Speaker 1: in dream teams we called them, in which case you
Speaker 1: had everybody who could help on a particular cancer problem,
Speaker 1: they could focus on this problem, get considerable investment of
Speaker 1: resources over a short period of time, that they could
Speaker 1: make a huge difference quickly, Dr Nelson, Bill, if I
Speaker 1: might before stand Up to Cancer, what did the world
Speaker 1: of cancer research look like, why was there this need
Speaker 1: to create dream teams and collaborate. Well, you had very
Speaker 1: dedicated people trying to make an impact on the cancer field.
Speaker 1: They were very competitive, and some of that was good
Speaker 1: in trying to outsmart or be cleverer than cancer than
Speaker 1: one might compete with someone else working on the same
Speaker 1: type of thing. And he didn't share information, didn't share
Speaker 1: data until you delivered a publication into the medical literature.
Speaker 1: That often was months months after the discovery was made.
Speaker 1: And I think what became clear around the time stand
Speaker 1: Up to Cancer as people were starting to work together,
Speaker 1: not just to not compete with each other, but we
Speaker 1: were starting to bring together areas of deep expertise uh
Speaker 1: medical oncology, structural biology, chemistry, cell biology, engineering, all these things,
Speaker 1: bringing more all together to ask much more impactful questions
Speaker 1: about what cancer is and how it might be better treated.
Speaker 1: On one level, you were collaborating with different kinds of
Speaker 1: scientists and different kind of experts bringing their expertise together.
Speaker 1: But in terms of institutions and medical establishments and biotech firms,
Speaker 1: it was very very proprietary, wasn't it. Bill, Certainly in
Speaker 1: the biotechnology industries proprietary because they're trying to build a
Speaker 1: product to outcompete the next company. But there was a
Speaker 1: lot of that ongoing, I think at our nations in
Speaker 1: the world's leading cancer center, so they could say we're
Speaker 1: the place that discovered this important thing. So it was
Speaker 1: very political in a way, very much so yes, and
Speaker 1: politics are everywhere to see that, Brian, and so initial
Speaker 1: I know a lot of the scientists were a little
Speaker 1: bit nervous about this whole new paradigm, thinking we're not
Speaker 1: going to share our valuable research, our blood, sweat and tears.
Speaker 1: If we're at such and such a hospital or institution,
Speaker 1: we're not going to share it with the people, you
Speaker 1: know on the other side of the country. What was
Speaker 1: the reaction initially? Like, I think it had ripened a
Speaker 1: bit so that the idea was very timely, And I
Speaker 1: think you're right. I think innately, I think scientists were
Speaker 1: a little bit nervous. What am I gonna share? Well,
Speaker 1: I share a little bit, but not the most important
Speaker 1: part or what have you. I think what started to
Speaker 1: happen though, is that some of the collaborative kinds of
Speaker 1: research we're getting answers that weren't that people just weren't
Speaker 1: getting when they're working on their own late at night
Speaker 1: and you know, in a dark laboratory. And I think
Speaker 1: people saw that this should work, although I think they
Speaker 1: were a little nervous about taking it on. I think
Speaker 1: that's a fair view. And so basically, what stand up
Speaker 1: set is you're not getting our money unless you work together,
Speaker 1: unless you play nice. Well they did say that, and
Speaker 1: the other side was that, you know, it was very
Speaker 1: clear from the get go that the stand Up to
Speaker 1: Cancer enterprise reached the general public in very, very much
Speaker 1: broader and more important ways. And remember, all along we
Speaker 1: were concerned in all of cancer research that not enough
Speaker 1: of the cancer patients were participating in clinical trials and
Speaker 1: the like. And here was a magic kind of a
Speaker 1: time where cancer researchers were going to come together, but
Speaker 1: the entertainment industry and the TV news industry was going
Speaker 1: to come together and tell everybody the story of cancer.
Speaker 1: So those two things together it was faded to work.
Speaker 1: And it has worked incredibly well. So after the initial resistance,
Speaker 1: there was excitement. And I think my impression Bill is
Speaker 1: once the scientists started working together and collaborating and getting
Speaker 1: to know each other and sharing their results and tissue
Speaker 1: samples and all sorts of things. They felt incredibly energized
Speaker 1: by this, didn't they. Well, you've watched each year as
Speaker 1: we come to the Scientific Summit, and you watch the
Speaker 1: culture of how people interact the scientists, and I think
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. I can think of two scientists from
Speaker 1: my own field cancer up in genetics, Peter Jones and
Speaker 1: Steve Bale, and they're a leader of a dream team.
Speaker 1: These were arch rivals throughout most of my career in science.
Speaker 1: They vacation together now so they not only begin to
Speaker 1: see things together and how they might work together, but
Speaker 1: the whole culture of science, I think has changed. And
Speaker 1: you watched it year to year coming to the Scientific Summing.
Speaker 1: It's actually been a really moving thing to witness because
Speaker 1: I've always said, if two heads are better than one,
Speaker 1: ten heads are better than two, And why not pool
Speaker 1: your incredible science and hard work and intelligence intellect and
Speaker 1: just help patience instead of helping the scientists. Ego With
Speaker 1: all due respect, Bill, Yeah, no, at some point I
Speaker 1: hope that people leave some of their ego at the door.
Speaker 1: We want them to have enough of an ego to
Speaker 1: be bold enough to have a new idea and build
Speaker 1: that idea up into something important if it's the answer,
Speaker 1: but other than that, it's just in the way. I agree. So, Bill,
Speaker 1: I want to ask you a few questions about cancer
Speaker 1: that may seem very obvious to you into Katie, but
Speaker 1: to civilians like me, I think your expertise will be
Speaker 1: very helpful. So I keep hearing a lot about immunotherapy,
Speaker 1: and basically, here's what I know. Immunotherapy trains your body's
Speaker 1: immune system to attack the cancer, which it won't do
Speaker 1: on its own in many cases. Can you explain where
Speaker 1: immunotherapy is and why it's so important? Yeah, well, I
Speaker 1: think you You've got to beat on on the immune system.
Speaker 1: The immune system is remarkable. It's capable, generally of distinguishing
Speaker 1: threats of the body, whether they're bacteria or viruses or
Speaker 1: fungi or somebody's kidney that's been transplanted into you. They
Speaker 1: can distinguish that from the normal cells in the body.
Speaker 1: And I think for a long time scientists wondered whether
Speaker 1: the immune system could also see cancer cells as different
Speaker 1: from normal cells. I think at this point we're pretty
Speaker 1: well convinced that they absolutely can. So the question then became,
Speaker 1: if the immune system can see the cancer recognize that
Speaker 1: it's not normal. Why can't it mount an attack and
Speaker 1: destroy the cancer the way it would try and destroy,
Speaker 1: you know, bacteria or viruses or the like. And for
Speaker 1: some of them, it looks like the cancer is sneaky.
Speaker 1: It holds up what I think of as the talk
Speaker 1: to the hand response. The immune cell shows up and
Speaker 1: it holds it at bay. The importance of that is
Speaker 1: that that can be defeated with a new series of drugs.
Speaker 1: Are five of them now FDA approved called immune checkpoint
Speaker 1: in immercial six. I guess um that stops that response,
Speaker 1: unleashes the immune system, and for many people, the immune
Speaker 1: system can destroy the cancer. It looks like it can
Speaker 1: keep it at bay for a very long time. We're
Speaker 1: beginning to wonder whether these people are cured. Truly remarkable,
Speaker 1: It is so exciting, and cancer is such a wildly
Speaker 1: vicious opponent. And I think Brian, for so long, even
Speaker 1: if you turbo charge the immune system, the cancer cells
Speaker 1: or something something within the cells or outside the cells
Speaker 1: could figure out a way around it. Right to Bill's point,
Speaker 1: they would set up these blockades or his his metaphor
Speaker 1: the talk to the hand thing, but they can remove
Speaker 1: the blockades, turbo charge the immune system and let it
Speaker 1: do its job, and we're seeing some very exciting developments
Speaker 1: in this field of cancer research. When it comes to
Speaker 1: this really relatively new approach, which a lot of scientists
Speaker 1: used to mock. Actually right, well, I think the people
Speaker 1: who worked on immano therapy for a long time were
Speaker 1: it wasn't working very well, and I think that many
Speaker 1: of their colleagues reminded them that on occasion. But yeah,
Speaker 1: now this these new immane checkpoint inhibitors are are just stunning,
Speaker 1: and of course now the challenges. They work incredibly well
Speaker 1: for a fraction of the people with many different types
Speaker 1: of cancers that get treated, they don't work at all
Speaker 1: for some other folks, and we need to know why
Speaker 1: that's the case, because the what we assume is if
Speaker 1: we can figure out why, perhaps we can can energize
Speaker 1: the immune system and these people to work as effectively
Speaker 1: it does in the others. You also have to be
Speaker 1: careful Bill right about turbocharging the immune system too much,
Speaker 1: because if the immune system Brian I always I love
Speaker 1: to talk about this stuff and Brian doesn't know a
Speaker 1: lot about it, But if the immune system is too
Speaker 1: powerful that, of course, can can have some very adverse
Speaker 1: effects on the patient. The use of these immune checkpoint
Speaker 1: inhibitors does walk a tight rope of immunity a little bit,
Speaker 1: and when the immune system gets too repped up, as
Speaker 1: as Katie was saying, you get itis inflammation of in
Speaker 1: almost any organ you can name, whether it's colitis and
Speaker 1: the call and numinitis and the lungs. Those are some
Speaker 1: of the more catastrophic ones. And so what's happened as
Speaker 1: the physicians learned to use these drugs better and better
Speaker 1: and more and more safely, they're far more attuned to
Speaker 1: minor side effects. You know, a little bit of a
Speaker 1: cough means a lot when you're on one of these drugs,
Speaker 1: you get you evaluated very quickly. The thing that's exciting
Speaker 1: is it looks like you can slow down the autoimmune attack,
Speaker 1: the attack on the long or the colon or something
Speaker 1: reasonably effectively without undermining the effect on the cancer very much.
Speaker 1: And that's very promising. But that's how that that medicine
Speaker 1: of that field is shaping up for our listeners. Which
Speaker 1: are the cancers that are now most responsive to immunotherapies,
Speaker 1: and which are the ones that have been the most challenging. Well,
Speaker 1: there's three to to think a lot about one or melanomas,
Speaker 1: and melanoma's the response rates are the highest. That the
Speaker 1: fraction of people with melanoma that benefit from immune checkpoint
Speaker 1: inhibited treatment is the highest. UH non small cell lung cancer.
Speaker 1: We call it one of the kinds of lung cancers
Speaker 1: respond extremely well. And the other one are cancers that
Speaker 1: arise in the sting of an inherited deficiency in DNA
Speaker 1: mismatch APPARENTSIMES. That's a bunch of science gobbledegook to say
Speaker 1: there's an inherited syndrome where people develop cancers, often calling cancer,
Speaker 1: but some others as well, And the reason they do
Speaker 1: is that they get more and more acquired defects and genes.
Speaker 1: Acquired defects and genes underlie cancer generally, but they get
Speaker 1: many many of them, and the immune system can see
Speaker 1: these cancers far more easily, it appears, and so taking
Speaker 1: down this checkpoint barrier looks like it unleashes the immune system.
Speaker 1: After these types of cancers, and these sample many, many
Speaker 1: different kinds of cancer types. Not to be self serving,
Speaker 1: but stand up to cancer is raised close to half
Speaker 1: a billion. Yes, that's billion with a B, folks dollars,
Speaker 1: and much of that money goes to support scientific research
Speaker 1: and build It's a little different in terms of how
Speaker 1: you all and the Scientific Advisory Committee determine where that
Speaker 1: money goes. Can you explain that quickly for us? But
Speaker 1: we when we look for the dream teams, we have
Speaker 1: teams come together and and we help them even before
Speaker 1: they apply, and we say, don't leave anyone out who
Speaker 1: can be helpful. That's the secret to a great dream team.
Speaker 1: They'll then propose a series of bold ideas, will review
Speaker 1: what they have written, will give them some advice on
Speaker 1: improving it, will invite them to come give an oral
Speaker 1: presentation in front of a whole committee of scientists, try
Speaker 1: and pick the ones that we think we should go after.
Speaker 1: And then after the funding is awarded, the Scientific Oversight
Speaker 1: Group continues to watch over these dream teams. We sit
Speaker 1: with them every six months and hear their progress. We
Speaker 1: hear where they've gotten stuck. Um we help them um
Speaker 1: overcome obstacles. Early on, those obstacles were getting the culture
Speaker 1: right to work as a team. We had to do
Speaker 1: a lot of work there. That's not such an issue anymore.
Speaker 1: They tend to work pretty well as a team now,
Speaker 1: and then we bring back what they've learned report up
Speaker 1: to the the women who founded Stand Up to Cancer,
Speaker 1: so we can say this is where it's working, this
Speaker 1: is what's not working. And what you all do with
Speaker 1: that information is you use it to tell a story
Speaker 1: and go raise more funds. There's also a time frame,
Speaker 1: which I think is really important because patients are desperate
Speaker 1: and I think you know people are desperate to come
Speaker 1: up with better treatments, if not a cure, but at
Speaker 1: least treatments that can keep the cancer at bay. So
Speaker 1: you tell these scientists they have to really put their
Speaker 1: foot on the gas pedal. Right, The support is for
Speaker 1: three years. We want them to be in the clinic
Speaker 1: helping people. And if they're in the middle of a
Speaker 1: clinical trial and it's ongoing, the three year clock comes up,
Speaker 1: we'll continue that clinical trial, but we want them to,
Speaker 1: as you say, put the pedal to the metal, get
Speaker 1: the idea translated. We call it into a clinical trial
Speaker 1: so that people can benefit directly. Because time is of
Speaker 1: the essence for these cancer patients and their families. When
Speaker 1: you've heard those three words, you have cancer. Time means
Speaker 1: completly different, meaning so and and when people hear that
Speaker 1: you have cancer. I mean, this may seem like a
Speaker 1: simple question, but what are the best next steps? How
Speaker 1: do you figure out? You know, where can I get
Speaker 1: the right treatment? How can I afford the right treatment?
Speaker 1: Should I listen to this advice? Should I get a
Speaker 1: second opinion? Etcetera? How can I make sure that my
Speaker 1: treatment is benefiting from the breakthroughs that are happening with
Speaker 1: stand up to cancer? Well? I think I think anyone
Speaker 1: who's heard the words you have cancer as a diagnos
Speaker 1: with a diagnosis of cancer will work with their loved ones,
Speaker 1: They'll go seek medical help. I think the idea of
Speaker 1: getting a second opinion is just sound advice generally for
Speaker 1: anything anyone tells you. In medicine, one of the things
Speaker 1: that's really helpful is the where the clinical trials are.
Speaker 1: One thing about clinical research and cancer medicine is it's
Speaker 1: innately the state of the art or better. That's what
Speaker 1: you get with a clinical trial. You also get a
Speaker 1: number of people second guessing the physicians decisions. You have
Speaker 1: the process of doing clinical research, you have a number
Speaker 1: of people watching to make sure the correct medical decisions
Speaker 1: have made. So people like me believe the highest quality
Speaker 1: cancer care is associated with cancer clinical trials. So looking
Speaker 1: for are there opportunities to participate in clinical search? Are
Speaker 1: you a candidate to be part of a clinical trial?
Speaker 1: Is a good way to learn more about cancer and
Speaker 1: to start making your own decisions with the help of
Speaker 1: your physician. Getting back to how the research grants for
Speaker 1: are awarded, I know that one of our goals is
Speaker 1: to fund young researchers who have out of the box ideas,
Speaker 1: because that's important for a number of reasons. First of all,
Speaker 1: there's a serious brain drain, right A lot of scientists
Speaker 1: come here and then they leave the country because they
Speaker 1: want to get more financial support. So we want to
Speaker 1: really encourage young scientists to stay in this country. And secondarily,
Speaker 1: some of these ideas are too unconventional to be funded
Speaker 1: in more traditional ways. Correct, that's right. We have I
Speaker 1: think now forty six or maybe even fifty innovative research
Speaker 1: grant awardees that that's what we call these young researchers,
Speaker 1: and they're just they're just playing remarkable as as you know,
Speaker 1: the late Laura Ziskin had a particular place in her
Speaker 1: heart for this program. She got to know while she
Speaker 1: was alive, everyone who was in this program very personally
Speaker 1: would go to their posters at the summit, ask them
Speaker 1: exactly what they're up to. And this is the best
Speaker 1: that we have in the country who show up and
Speaker 1: apply for these things, and uh, if there are any
Speaker 1: reflection on what the world of cancer is gonna look
Speaker 1: like in a few years, we're going to be in
Speaker 1: good shape. They're incredibly talent a group of people. It's
Speaker 1: very exciting and incredibly gratifying to see them. Brian, I
Speaker 1: I think they're sort of like the Brian Goldsmiths of
Speaker 1: the science world. Oh my god, that's not true. I
Speaker 1: hope they're way better. I think of all the people
Speaker 1: with cancer I'm making Brian blush. Hey, Brian, let's talk
Speaker 1: a little to Bill about his background. What's a nice
Speaker 1: guy like you doing in a field like this. Give
Speaker 1: us a quick thumbnail sketch of your CV and why
Speaker 1: you decided to become a cancer scientist, and a damn
Speaker 1: good one at that, Bill, Thank you. I was not
Speaker 1: someone interested in a pre medical education. I went to
Speaker 1: college mostly to kick soccer balls and get an education.
Speaker 1: I thought i'd kick soccer balls for a couple of
Speaker 1: years and be a lawyer or something. I didn't have
Speaker 1: very definitive plans. I managed to find myself without a job,
Speaker 1: and uh I went to work for someone who brought
Speaker 1: his kids to soccer camps and stuff. And uh I
Speaker 1: had majored in chemistry and sort of quantum mechanics because
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting. Didn't take any biology to
Speaker 1: Yale College up the street from my safety school, Safety School,
Speaker 1: and uh I can remember this person, Joe McGuire was
Speaker 1: the person ran the lab, and he was doing a
Speaker 1: clinical research on the first uses of retinoids and children
Speaker 1: with scaling skin disorders. Called it the o C so
Speaker 1: they looked kind of funny. And the kids were, you know,
Speaker 1: twelve thirteen year olds, and uh same kind of kids
Speaker 1: would come to soccer camps and and I can remember
Speaker 1: scraping skin off of them to do stuff in the
Speaker 1: laboratory and and talking to them, and I was incredibly
Speaker 1: impressed with how much they knew about clinical research. They
Speaker 1: thought perhaps this new drug might help them, but it
Speaker 1: was more likely not because they've tried things before. But
Speaker 1: even if it didn't work, they were pretty convinced that
Speaker 1: the next set of children with the same disorders would
Speaker 1: be benefited. And I was very moved by that. And
Speaker 1: I can remember taking this one boy and his mom
Speaker 1: up to the laboratory, trying to show him what I
Speaker 1: was doing, giving my best lay explanation, and I looked
Speaker 1: at them at some point realized they had no earthly
Speaker 1: idea what I was talking about, but they cared deeply
Speaker 1: that this much activity was being expended on their behalf.
Speaker 1: And I remember at that point I said, sign me up.
Speaker 1: This is what I want to do. I want to
Speaker 1: do something that brings new treatments to people. And uh
Speaker 1: remember Joe said, well then you're gonna have to go
Speaker 1: to medical school, which I didn't have the right curriculum for,
Speaker 1: but Johns Hopkins took a risk on me. I ended
Speaker 1: up and I was never going to do anything other
Speaker 1: than cance. So I think it's the one where you
Speaker 1: can make the biggest difference by coming up with something new. Well,
Speaker 1: we're glad you did so, thank you. You're a leader
Speaker 1: in what's known as translational research. Can you translate that
Speaker 1: from me? Can you translate translational research? Yeah? No, So
Speaker 1: translational research is the the idea that you can make
Speaker 1: discoveries about biologic processes and the like, but to get
Speaker 1: them into a clinical setting, to translate them from science,
Speaker 1: if you will, to medicine. Um is what we think
Speaker 1: of as translational research. So we try and take the
Speaker 1: best ideas that arise out of how cells work, how
Speaker 1: tissues work, and turn them into new opportunities to build
Speaker 1: approaches to treatment, early detection, screening, prevention, and like you know,
Speaker 1: one of the other exciting things about I think the
Speaker 1: world of cancer research right now is I think you
Speaker 1: mentioned it earlier, this confluence or convergence of all these
Speaker 1: experts in different fields. And I think one of the
Speaker 1: most important game changers, it seems to me, and you
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, Bill, is data and how
Speaker 1: data is going to impact cancer research. Now, we hear
Speaker 1: that all the time, but can you explain in practical
Speaker 1: terms what data can do for you as a scientist
Speaker 1: and for patients everywhere? Well, there's all kinds of data
Speaker 1: that you could perhaps bring together to help people more
Speaker 1: and more in medicine. But think of cancer for a second, right,
Speaker 1: All cancers are disorders of acquired defects and genes, which
Speaker 1: means we're talking DNA like c S, I on the
Speaker 1: television show three billion basis of DNA. That's the code
Speaker 1: of DNA in every cell in the body. Think about this,
Speaker 1: Human beings are nine nine point nine percent identical at
Speaker 1: the DNA sequence level. And depending on who you're sitting
Speaker 1: next to, that may or may not be a scary
Speaker 1: thought was gonna say, But it does say there's a
Speaker 1: lot more in common between people then we might think politically.
Speaker 1: But that also means there's three million differences between any
Speaker 1: two individuals. We now have the ability to look at
Speaker 1: all the disorders, all the acquired defects in all the genes,
Speaker 1: three billions of bases at a time, huge numbers. And
Speaker 1: this starts to fill up computers, over taxes, microprocessors and
Speaker 1: the like. And that's just to think about one particular
Speaker 1: cancer case. What if we thought about all the breast cancer,
Speaker 1: can we classify it in a way that's perhaps different
Speaker 1: than before, which would say, this woman might not need
Speaker 1: chemotherapy after surgery something that's been in the news of it,
Speaker 1: or this woman might benefit from it, or this woman
Speaker 1: might benefit from trastuzumab percepttion, and this woman might not.
Speaker 1: As we're beginning to make these choices, we're using huge
Speaker 1: amounts of data computers in different ways, and then you're
Speaker 1: write data science itself is what this is becoming. So
Speaker 1: it's it's it's really the not only the collection of data,
Speaker 1: in other words, the information about all these individual cases,
Speaker 1: but how it is organized and how scientists can compare
Speaker 1: uh situations and outcomes and then come up with better recommendations.
Speaker 1: Is that the right to think of it? Absolutely, that's
Speaker 1: exactly right. And one of the challenges, of course is
Speaker 1: as there are electronic health records now throughout the country
Speaker 1: that most of us have somewhere, they have largely been launched,
Speaker 1: if you will, for building purposes, building in compliance, not
Speaker 1: to necessarily maintain the kind of information you'd love to
Speaker 1: use to see whether a treatment worked for everyone who've
Speaker 1: had this life experience and this DNA and put them
Speaker 1: all together. That's what's gonna happen. I think everyone's convinced.
Speaker 1: But it's been a little bit slower than we'd like
Speaker 1: to see. But when it does happen, how will it
Speaker 1: change the face of cancer research and treatment? Oh? I
Speaker 1: think it's going to change it immensely. I think once
Speaker 1: you realize that although we're all very similar we're all different. No,
Speaker 1: two cancers are going to be exactly the life because
Speaker 1: cancer is different in everyone's individual biology. That's right, And
Speaker 1: so we're gonna give the right treatment at the right
Speaker 1: time to the right person at the right does all
Speaker 1: that's going You're going to have the information at your
Speaker 1: fingertips to see sort of quantify, right, what treatment is
Speaker 1: the most efficacious. I always like to use word efficacious.
Speaker 1: I feel like it makes me sound smart. What do
Speaker 1: you think instead of effective? Yeah, it makes you sound
Speaker 1: a little flowering. Why do you scided to say efficactions
Speaker 1: versus effect? I don't know. I'm stuck on whether or
Speaker 1: not it works. You know, can I can? I kind
Speaker 1: of related to that, which is, artificial intelligence has become
Speaker 1: such a buzz phrase um in the world in general
Speaker 1: and in science and particular. How is AI going to
Speaker 1: change cancer research? Your treatment? Well, it is a perfect
Speaker 1: way to go with this big data type discussion, right, So,
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence particularly can seek and see patterns, and if
Speaker 1: the data are collected in a high quality quantitative way,
Speaker 1: as Katie was talking about, the better inputs are going
Speaker 1: to drive the better artificial intelligence algorithms and insights. So
Speaker 1: AI is basically just means it's like it can analyze
Speaker 1: the data and organize the data and interpret the data right,
Speaker 1: that's right, and it sees patterns. So I think the
Speaker 1: first place you're gonna see big hits from AI and
Speaker 1: medicine are in looking at images like mammograms or CT
Speaker 1: scans as they call them, And the other is in
Speaker 1: helping pathologists look at slides, and I think they'll see
Speaker 1: these patterns. I suspect in the end that the AI
Speaker 1: tool will be one that works with a doctor rather
Speaker 1: than replaces one. They'll drive the pathologists eyes to a
Speaker 1: particular part of the slide, saying in their artificial intelligence algorithm,
Speaker 1: this looks suspicious to us, of the pathologist will examine
Speaker 1: and says, yes, that's suspicious because it's a cancer, and
Speaker 1: you'll go And I think that's where you're gonna see
Speaker 1: the earliest hits. You're just gonna have many more tools
Speaker 1: in your tool kit to help patients. Which is so
Speaker 1: exciting is somebody who's husband died of calling cancer in
Speaker 1: this span and of nine months, a new sister died
Speaker 1: of pancreatic cancer in less than two years. You know
Speaker 1: the idea of that being available is so moving and
Speaker 1: heartening to me though. It's incredible, and that wasn't that
Speaker 1: long ago. And so the idea that things are moving
Speaker 1: now finally the way they need to be, faster and
Speaker 1: faster helping more and more people, that's what we all want.
Speaker 1: And you know, stand Up has funded a lot of
Speaker 1: breakthroughs and I just want to give you all a
Speaker 1: hat tip for that, um And and also it gives
Speaker 1: me great pride to know that we have helped facilitate
Speaker 1: some of these breakthroughs. Um. Can you just tick them
Speaker 1: off real quickly, Bill, Just in the last ten years
Speaker 1: have been incredible things that have happened as a result
Speaker 1: of Stand Up to Cancer and these dream teams. Five
Speaker 1: new cancer treatments approved by the Food and Drug Administration,
Speaker 1: which means they're out there and people with cancer can
Speaker 1: benefit from them. New targeted treatments for breast cancer and
Speaker 1: ovarian cancer. A new chemotherapy like drug for pancreatic cancer.
Speaker 1: New bionic T cells called car T cells for leukemia.
Speaker 1: When they work, they work so well they make people
Speaker 1: very sex So there's new strategies to how stop that
Speaker 1: particular side effect. All of this out there, all of
Speaker 1: this available today, uh. And ten years after standard to
Speaker 1: cancer started. Well, it's really exciting, but of course it's
Speaker 1: not enough. I can't tell you how many direct messages
Speaker 1: I get through Instagram or through other means with people
Speaker 1: just desperate bill for some kind of treatment, young people,
Speaker 1: old people, all ages. And of course we just lost
Speaker 1: to I think American heroes from cancer, John McCain from
Speaker 1: glioblastoma I think nine years to the day after Teddy
Speaker 1: Kennedy died of the same thing, and Aretha Franklin from
Speaker 1: pancreatic cancer. So what do you if you had a
Speaker 1: magic wand what would you like to see happen? Obviously
Speaker 1: we'd like to cure all cancers and make them history.
Speaker 1: But what do you see having in the future to
Speaker 1: help the people who, sadly and tragically are not being helped. Well,
Speaker 1: I think we do need to cure everyone with cancer,
Speaker 1: and I think we're going to slowly but surely get
Speaker 1: to there. And uh, and by that I don't mean
Speaker 1: too slowly. I think we're finally moving quickly enough that
Speaker 1: you're starting to see people benefit who historically you didn't
Speaker 1: think of as benefiting very much. But those two are
Speaker 1: ones that we just don't do well enough against brain tumors.
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, whether it's Bo Biden or John McCain
Speaker 1: or Teddy Kennedy or anybody who knows somebody with a
Speaker 1: malignant brain tumor, we just don't do well enough against
Speaker 1: that cancer. We need to work harder and get some
Speaker 1: new insights pancreatic cancer. It's just starting to get a
Speaker 1: little bit brighter, I think, but this is still a
Speaker 1: cancer that's growing in incidents in our country as some
Speaker 1: of other cancers are receding. So we're gonna have to
Speaker 1: struggle with some cancers that we're not doing very well with.
Speaker 1: Another more subtle channel into which I'm I'm hopeful about,
Speaker 1: is that you know, most cancers arise, like percent of
Speaker 1: them arising people over the age of sixty. The good
Speaker 1: news is that we have people aging into their sixties, seventies,
Speaker 1: I know, seventies and New twenty five or something. But
Speaker 1: we have people aging into their sixties and seventies and
Speaker 1: a much more healthy states. So of course we're going
Speaker 1: to treat their cancer. But by the same token, we're
Speaker 1: gonna want different kinds of cancer treatments, ones that they
Speaker 1: can take, that's a pill that they can still continue
Speaker 1: to work or or whatnot. And the that's starting to
Speaker 1: happen to the cancer treatments just aren't is difficult to
Speaker 1: get through as they once were. And Bill, you're you're
Speaker 1: the director of the Kimmel Cancer Center at Johns Hopkins.
Speaker 1: You study all aspects of cancer. And we've been talking
Speaker 1: a lot about research and treatment, but can we just
Speaker 1: talk for a second about prevention. What do we know
Speaker 1: about things that those of us who are lucky enough
Speaker 1: not to have had cancer, at least not to have
Speaker 1: had cancer yet, what can we do to prevent cancer
Speaker 1: in terms of you know, diet or lifestyle or anything
Speaker 1: like that. Well, there's some straight off the bat that
Speaker 1: people should just do. One is a vaccination against the
Speaker 1: human papalomavirus HPV. Vaccination. Everyone, boys, girls, everyone should be vaccinated.
Speaker 1: It stops at least three different kinds of cancers, and
Speaker 1: it definitely works, and people should get it done. Smoking
Speaker 1: cessation is one of the reasons lung cancer mortality has
Speaker 1: been declining. Immercifully, Smoking effects all cancers. Smoking affects many cancers.
Speaker 1: That's right, and there's no question we've got to stamp
Speaker 1: out smoking. Justice. It seems to be working better and
Speaker 1: better in this country. We see smoking pop up in
Speaker 1: other parts of the globe. This is going to be
Speaker 1: a global challenge. And a diet and exercise. Having a
Speaker 1: healthier diet, healthier weight, and exercise probably is a general
Speaker 1: preventative agent for many kinds of cancers, particularly those that
Speaker 1: are common in the Western world. And those three things
Speaker 1: people can just do on their own. They can get
Speaker 1: those things done. There are increasingly some strategies using early detection.
Speaker 1: Katie Kirk is shown us our own early detection strategies
Speaker 1: periodically on television. UM. But there's early detection kind of
Speaker 1: strategies and screening. And the other of course is there
Speaker 1: are some medicines out that help prevent breast cancer, and
Speaker 1: we need to discover more of those types of medicines
Speaker 1: that help prevent other cancers. Well, we talk about early detection,
Speaker 1: and now one of the exciting things that I've recently
Speaker 1: learned is on the horizon potentially very very early stages
Speaker 1: new ways of detecting cancer. I was at this Michael
Speaker 1: Milken Institute panel over the weekend and they were talking
Speaker 1: about potentially working on a breathalyzer for lung cancer and
Speaker 1: coaling cancer and it Please Whenever I say these things,
Speaker 1: I worry that people will say, oh, we'll wait to
Speaker 1: get screen when they come up with the breathalyzer. Do
Speaker 1: not wait, ladies and gentlemen. In fact, if you're forty
Speaker 1: five are over, the American Cancer Society just lower the
Speaker 1: age for a baseline screening colonoscopy or baseline screening for
Speaker 1: coaling can are tot so please please, please get screen.
Speaker 1: But it's it was so interesting to me. They were
Speaker 1: kind of comparing how dogs can sniff out like diabetes.
Speaker 1: Now it's so crazy, but so wild and cool too.
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think about that? Yes, I've
Speaker 1: heard a little bit about this from Jonathan Simon's at
Speaker 1: the Process Cancer Foundation works with Michael Milk, and he's
Speaker 1: my my roommates. I get to hear a lot about
Speaker 1: you guys. Must be really fun when you go out
Speaker 1: for a beer. Yeah, we're exactly not exciting even slightly
Speaker 1: like those two old guys in the Muppet television programs.
Speaker 1: But no, they can train dogs to sniff out of
Speaker 1: rioted diseases. These presumably are compounds, chemical compounds that are
Speaker 1: very volatile dogs have. I forget what it is fifty
Speaker 1: two a hundred times the number of odorant receptors in
Speaker 1: their nose as human, so they can smell things better.
Speaker 1: And I think the answer is what exactly are they smelling?
Speaker 1: If they can sniff out cancer and other diseases, and
Speaker 1: can we develop ways to measure them? And then the
Speaker 1: next question is, as that gets you any earlier or
Speaker 1: any more specific than colonoscopy or a DNA based test
Speaker 1: or something like that, do you think that cancer will
Speaker 1: one day soon? And if you could you even predict
Speaker 1: when be a be a disease of the past. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a great question. I think we'll be grappling with
Speaker 1: it for quite a while. And I think, uh, one
Speaker 1: of the reasons is that every time one cell divides
Speaker 1: to become two of those three billion base pairs, it
Speaker 1: makes a bunch of mistakes, thousands of them. Most of
Speaker 1: them get fixed, but about five to ten sneak through.
Speaker 1: And as long as that happens, then cancer will hopefully
Speaker 1: be a rare disease. But I think we'll still still
Speaker 1: likely have cancer to deal with. Well, we are going
Speaker 1: to be dropping this episode, as they say in the BIZ,
Speaker 1: one day before our fifth biennial stand up to cancer
Speaker 1: telecasts that's every two years, and I'm very excited. I'm
Speaker 1: going to be going out to l a Brian. I
Speaker 1: hope he'll come this year with your lovely bride, Claire,
Speaker 1: and and we have a lot of big, boldface names
Speaker 1: like me Herschela Ali from Moonlight and Kathy Bates who
Speaker 1: herself as a cancer survivor. Jennifer Garner, he's so cute.
Speaker 1: I'm actually excited to meet her. I guess I've met her,
Speaker 1: but I've seen her in a long time. Tony Hale,
Speaker 1: at Helms ken Jong, whose wife is a breast cancer survivor,
Speaker 1: Matthew McConaughey, Marley Mattlin who I love, Trevor Noah, we
Speaker 1: have Reese Witherspoon, Keith Irvin, David Spade, Brian Goldsmith, Katie Curic,
Speaker 1: Bill Nelson. Actually, one of my favorite moments in our
Speaker 1: past telecast, Briant, is when we brought all the scientists
Speaker 1: on stage, because truly, and you've heard me say this
Speaker 1: time and time again, but me, me, my listeners haven't
Speaker 1: Cancer researchers and scientists are my heroes. They are so
Speaker 1: extraordinarily dedicated and committed and super smart, scary, smart, and
Speaker 1: I feel like they don't get enough accolades in our
Speaker 1: current culture. So to be able to celebrate everything you
Speaker 1: all do is such a thrill for me, and I
Speaker 1: hope that we'll be able to celebrate you all this
Speaker 1: year as well. I'm sure we're going to be giving
Speaker 1: you a big round of applause. I don't think your
Speaker 1: band is playing Bill this year. And during our telecast,
Speaker 1: you do play in a in a band I do,
Speaker 1: and it's a it's a blast that no question tell
Speaker 1: us about that is that a cancer band. Actually the
Speaker 1: woman who fronts the band is a breast cancer survivor, actually,
Speaker 1: and uh, and we were able to help her and uh,
Speaker 1: and she's very public about her case, talks about it,
Speaker 1: and it's it's wonderful to see. There's a lot of uh.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's why so many musical artists contribute. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of people in the music business been very
Speaker 1: deeply touched by cancer and want to get back. It's
Speaker 1: really no surprise, Bill, when you consider that one in
Speaker 1: three Americans will be diagnosed with some kind of cancer
Speaker 1: during the course of their lifetime. Times that so many
Speaker 1: people want to participate in stand up to cancer. And
Speaker 1: I also want to say how grateful we are to
Speaker 1: all the people who are so generous with their their time, attention,
Speaker 1: and energy, and that they're willing to spend Friday night,
Speaker 1: uh talking about this disease. And this year we're going
Speaker 1: to be celebrating all the victories that we've seen. You know,
Speaker 1: sometimes this is such a heavy subject and it's so
Speaker 1: sad for so many people, but there are also so
Speaker 1: many survivors out there, and on this telecast, I think
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the hope that all this
Speaker 1: research is ushering in for so many families, and it's
Speaker 1: going to happen. It's it's happening more and more. One
Speaker 1: of the biggest groups growing in the United States now,
Speaker 1: our cancer survivors fourteen sixteen, eighteen million or whatever the
Speaker 1: last number I saw. It's great to see and I
Speaker 1: hope people will get involved. You know, when I lost
Speaker 1: my husband and also my sister, I found being proactive
Speaker 1: and carrying a out something bigger than yourself and wanting
Speaker 1: to help other people was so cathartic for me and
Speaker 1: in fact, John McCain I posted on my Instagram a
Speaker 1: quote by John McCain. He said, if you find faults
Speaker 1: with our country, make it a better one. And then
Speaker 1: he goes on to ways that you can do things,
Speaker 1: and he says, our country will be better and you
Speaker 1: will be happier because nothing brings greater happiness in life
Speaker 1: than to serve a cause greater than yourself. So when
Speaker 1: people ask me what can I do? I always say,
Speaker 1: do anything. Make a small contribution of five dollars, get
Speaker 1: your kids to have elimonade stand you know, maybe get
Speaker 1: involved in a local cancer charity that gives support to
Speaker 1: patients who need it, who need even a drive to
Speaker 1: the doctor to get their chemo treatments. There's so many
Speaker 1: things that you can do, and I think the feeling
Speaker 1: of powerlessness that is so overwhelming during a cancer diagnosis
Speaker 1: or a cancer experience can be really offset by doing
Speaker 1: something proactive. So for all of you listening out there
Speaker 1: who have been touched by cancer and affected by it
Speaker 1: or are dealing with it right now, UM, we would
Speaker 1: so welcome your involvement with Stand Up to Cancer, and
Speaker 1: you can go to our website and learn the myriad
Speaker 1: of ways that you can get involved. Can you tell
Speaker 1: him a little passionate about this? Well, as you know
Speaker 1: and you mentioned this. I think all the physicians and
Speaker 1: scientists that work on cancer are passionate as well and
Speaker 1: cannot be more thankful to you and the women who
Speaker 1: run Stand Up to Cancer that both raise funds for
Speaker 1: the combat this disease and then increase the awareness of
Speaker 1: it so that everybody does better. It's it's it's really something. Well.
Speaker 1: I always say it's going to be the first line
Speaker 1: in my obituary, but hopefully that won't be written anytime,
Speaker 1: reels Bill Nelson. I'm bad happy you note. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much, Bill again for everything you do, for coming
Speaker 1: here and being on our podcast. Brian, you want to say,
Speaker 1: by the Bill to Bill, really appreciate your taking the
Speaker 1: time and educating us about cancer and the future of cancer.
Speaker 1: And I'm more optimistic than I was before we had
Speaker 1: this conversation. Well, Suber, You're both are welcome and thank
Speaker 1: you for having me. That wraps things up for us
Speaker 1: for today. Everyone. If you'd like to learn more about
Speaker 1: Stand Up to Cancer, or get involved, or even make
Speaker 1: a small contribution, please head to stand Up to Cancer
Speaker 1: dot org. Every couple of years around this time I
Speaker 1: make a contribution. I'm really glad that I have and
Speaker 1: I'd encourage everyone to do the same. Whether it's five
Speaker 1: dollars or five thousand dollars, you should give whatever you
Speaker 1: can because I can't imagine a better cause. Thank you, Brian,
Speaker 1: and thanks as usual to our production team, Gianna Palmer,
Speaker 1: our producer, Nor Richie, our assistant producer, and Jared O'Connell,
Speaker 1: who mixes and engineers the show. And beth A mas
Speaker 1: is a rock star in her own right here here.
Speaker 1: Special thanks this week to Jon Asanti for his production help,
Speaker 1: as well as Andy Kristen's and Jordan Duffy for engineering.
Speaker 1: And a big thank you this week to Kathleen lab
Speaker 1: my friend and colleague since nineteen Excuse me, I am
Speaker 1: so sorry. Kathleen and I not only went to the
Speaker 1: University of Virginia together, but she is a huge and
Speaker 1: important force behind Stand Up to Cancer and I feel
Speaker 1: so honored to be able to work with her after
Speaker 1: all these years. As always, a big thank you to
Speaker 1: Mark Phillips for our theme music. Brian and I are
Speaker 1: the show's executive producers. For better or for worse, Remember
Speaker 1: we love hearing from you over at comments at correct
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. We'll take questions. Guest ideas and of
Speaker 1: course feedback. You can also leave us a message at
Speaker 1: nine two to four, four, six, three seven. I'm on
Speaker 1: social media a lot under Katie Kirk. By the way,
Speaker 1: just follow me on Instagram. I'm a story make and
Speaker 1: full and Brian sends Twitter missives from the handle at
Speaker 1: Goldsmith b And if you've listened this far and you
Speaker 1: like the if one of you out there is listening
Speaker 1: this far, God help you, please know that we'd also
Speaker 1: appreciate it if you'd rate and review us on Apple Podcast.
Speaker 1: It helps more people to find the show. And don't
Speaker 1: forget to subscribe as well as always, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for listening, and we'll talk to you next week.