1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Sanny and Samantha. 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 2: Welcome to steph wan Ever Told your production of iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 3: So, if you are a listener, you may have noticed 4 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 3: we've been talking a lot about religion lately. Yes, and 5 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 3: we have more to go. We have a lot more 6 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 3: to go. But one of the things we talked about 7 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 3: recently in those episodes was around purity culture. And you 8 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 3: mentioned in there that you know, we had talked about 9 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 3: it before, but there was just so much more to 10 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 3: it than we got to go into in those episodes 11 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 3: where we did talk about it. So we thought we 12 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 3: would bring we would bring those episodes back where we 13 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 3: talked about it and especially around myths around virginity and 14 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 3: why can be so damaging and have been so damaging. 15 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 3: So in that spirit, here is part one of the 16 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 3: two parter we did on the midst of Virginity. 17 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 2: Please enjoy. 18 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 3: Hey, this is Andy and Samantha and welcome to Stefan 19 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 3: Never Told your production of iHeartRadio. 20 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: So at the beginning of this episode, we're going to 21 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: go ahead and put in this trigger warning. We are 22 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: going to be mentioning sexual abuse, assault and religious trauma. 23 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: So justin FYI and as you probably can tell from 24 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: the title we are going into the world of purity 25 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: in virginity, So there you go. We're not going to 26 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: be too explicit, but there are some things where I 27 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: think it could get sensitive, you. 28 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 3: Know, yes, and peek behind the podcast curtains, depending on 29 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 3: how much Samantha and I have to say. On top 30 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 3: of foot we researched. This could be a two partner. 31 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 2: We don't know. A surprise. 32 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: It's a surprise for all it is, all right, Well, Annie, 33 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: I do have a question for you, and I don't 34 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: think we've ever talked about this. Uh huh, Hey, did 35 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: your parents ever talk to you about the birds and 36 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: the bees? 37 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 3: They attempted to. So what happened was I was in 38 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 3: eighth grade and my dad at this time he was 39 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 3: the one who used to pick me up because he 40 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 3: worked near me and he was a college professor so oftentimes, 41 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 3: like his schedule lined up so it was easy for 42 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 3: him to pick me up. And this resulted in some 43 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 3: you know, really awkward father daughter but like it shouldn't 44 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 3: be awkward, but it was awkward of like me having 45 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 3: to buy pads and stuff, so he knew like that 46 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 3: was going on. I was really young when my first period, 47 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 3: but we were stuck in traffic because it's a small 48 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 3: town but all the roads get packed around school time, 49 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 3: and he just brought it up out of nowhere of like, so, 50 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 3: do you know what sex is? And I said yes, 51 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 3: And there was a like really prolonged, protracted, awkward boss 52 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 3: and he said okay, good, and that was the end 53 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 3: of it. So essentially I was a little annoyed when 54 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 3: this happened because I was like, of course I already 55 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 3: know about this. You're way too late to be giving 56 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 3: me this talk. But I did have questions and I 57 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 3: honestly didn't really know. I knew like what I've heard 58 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 3: from friends and when I looked up in the encyclopedia, 59 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 3: but it felt so like uncool and extremely awkward to 60 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 3: tell my dad like, yeah, I am fifteen and I 61 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 3: wouldn't like to. 62 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: Learn more about sex. 63 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 3: So and he was equally like, he did not follow 64 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 3: up after I said I know what it is. 65 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 2: That was the end. That was the attempted talk. Yes, okay. 66 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: And during that time, did you have any moment of 67 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: what he talked about your responsibility as the girl? 68 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 3: No, it was literally just the tense, very tense, awkward 69 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 3: I'm glad you know about it. I remember having a 70 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 3: teetering moment where it felt like he was on the 71 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 3: verge of asking have you had sex right, or like 72 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 3: going into it, and he didn't pursue it, but I did. 73 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,679 Speaker 3: I had like this nervous anticipation of he was going 74 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 3: to ask, and if he had, I don't know what 75 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 3: I would have done right, because I might have I 76 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 3: might have lied. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. It's interesting. 77 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: Well, there's a whole other level to that, but yeah, 78 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: did you ever talk to your mom about it? 79 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,799 Speaker 3: I didn't talk to my mom about it. I asked 80 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 3: her about other kind of related things, I guess, and 81 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 3: I would ask her like, how do you meet people? 82 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 3: It seems like they're doing it in a bar? And 83 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 3: she was like, oh, no, not that, but not really yeah. 84 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. So for myself, I did have a moment 85 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,799 Speaker 1: where my mother came and approached me, but it wasn't 86 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: necessarily about sex as much as you kind of just 87 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: get our history about herself and her and my dad 88 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 1: have always been together, and they've been together happily since 89 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 1: a very young age, and like because they were so 90 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 1: not like they were a permanent fixture in my life 91 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: that they were the couple, no other couple. They didn't 92 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 1: really date anybody else. It was just them. They got married, 93 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: they've been together. They would not know what to do 94 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: with out each other type of level. So some of 95 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: the things that we talk about, she had a lot 96 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: of shame factor on herself, which I was kind of like. 97 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: It was like, I wasn't super shocked, but I. 98 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: Was like, you know, that's not okay. 99 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 1: Everything's worked out, it's beautiful, your marriage is beautiful. I 100 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: don't understand what's happening. But it was a weird like 101 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: connotation of you know, we did it this way. You 102 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: don't have to do it this way, but this is 103 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: what this looks like and being in love is beautiful. 104 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: And I will say like they definitely encourage the whole 105 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: way till you're married thing, but it wasn't pushed. It 106 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: was also, I think a little beyond them because the 107 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: expectation was everybody's human and everybody's gonna sin, not necessarily 108 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: just make mistakes, but sin, and it isn't to them. 109 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 1: It was sin, but it wasn't unforgivable, if that makes sense. 110 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: And again, as you the audience, you're the listeners, you 111 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 1: probably already know and can tell as it was in 112 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: the subject. It's in the heading, so you kind of 113 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: already know what you're jumping into. Yesterday's episode, we are 114 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: jumping into the wormhole of the ideology, myths and even 115 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: the history and origination of virginity and purity. And y'all, 116 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: oh god, what a spiral it was. Is there are 117 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 1: so many books, of course, and there's a lot of 118 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: conversation that's been happening that needs to happen, and there's 119 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: still a lot of opposing views. I think this is 120 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: probably one of those things that would split my family 121 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: in half, Like the conversations would go back and forth, 122 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: like we make jokes about things. And again, my parents 123 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: and my family are not necessarily stickler sticklers, but the 124 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: whole idea of morality, purity, virginity, it's a serious thing. 125 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 2: It's a serious. 126 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: Concept for my family, who is very, very very religious. 127 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: But there's no shunning. I would say that as much 128 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: as they would love to say everybody's perfect in this family, 129 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: they would never dismiss or like send someone off because 130 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: they disagreed. So I will say that, but yeah, it's 131 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: a really divisive issue. 132 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and again it's another one of those things, 133 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 3: and we're going to talk about some of our own 134 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 3: personal experiences and thoughts around it as we go. 135 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 2: But that I have learned. 136 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 3: Is not a big deal in every culture or in 137 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 3: every society. And that was kind of a shock to 138 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 3: me because in my growing up in the US in 139 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 3: the South, with yeah, I would see things like you 140 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,239 Speaker 3: were describing with my really Christian friends with their parents 141 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 3: being like, you can't have sex before marriage and all 142 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 3: that stuff, and being asked to go to like purity ceremonies. 143 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 3: So I had that with me, and I thought it was, 144 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 3: you know, just a big deal across the board around 145 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 3: the world, and I. 146 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,119 Speaker 2: Learned that's not quite the case. 147 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 3: Yes, so virginity and here, yes, we are talking about 148 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 3: the whole heteronormative concept of male and female penis and 149 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 3: vagina intercourse, which, yes, is why this whole concept is 150 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 3: misleading and problematic, or at least one of the things 151 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 3: that makes it problematic and misleading. So just to put 152 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 3: that right at the top, that is what we're talking about. 153 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 3: So let's start, in typical spinty fashion with some definition. 154 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 3: Virginity as defined by Miriam Webster, the quality or state 155 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 3: of being a virgin, especially maidenhood or the unmarried life celibacy. 156 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 3: And for bonus points here maidenhood is defined as the quality, state, 157 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 3: or time of being a maiden or an unmarried girl 158 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 3: or woman. 159 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: So yes, already we can see the uh sexist leadings 160 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: of where this word came from. Another definition of virginity 161 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: can also be described as the state of never having 162 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: engaged in sexual intercourse. Again, very heteronormative and very such 163 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: gender type of conversation here, or can be characterized as a. 164 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 2: State of purity, And here purity means. 165 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: A physical chastity, going back to virginity, so it's like 166 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:47,119 Speaker 1: a back and forth. Obviously these terms seemed to go cyclical. 167 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: Just go ahead with that. 168 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 3: There, Yes, And I was just reminded as you were 169 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 3: going through that I had friends named chastity. 170 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: Yes, that was a punchline in a recent episode of 171 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: a Parks and Wreck that I just watched. 172 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 3: Oh, I've forgotten about that one. And while we're here, 173 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 3: we might as well go through some of the slang 174 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 3: that is used for those who have had sex for 175 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 3: the first time, such as popping your cherry, cherry poppin' devirginized, whole, punch, 176 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,959 Speaker 3: the V card, broke, the vandsop plowed, losing your religion, 177 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 3: Papa Luck, devirginization, swiping the V card, and so many more. 178 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 2: A lot of them don't make much sense. 179 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 3: A lot of the ones I just went through I've 180 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 3: never heard, and I'm kind of confused. 181 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: But all right, well, the worst is very long, and 182 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: some of them didn't quite make sense, and I think 183 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: that's because of my naivety. 184 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 2: I'm gonna leave it there. 185 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: The website that I use is quite long as in fact, 186 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: it's also censored, so it's blurred. You have to click 187 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: approvals to get to see all of them. Wow, And 188 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: the ones that were blurred didn't make sense as to 189 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: why it was blurred. So I'm like, oh, I definitely 190 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: don't understand what. 191 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 2: Me And then you have to debate, like is this 192 00:10:58,600 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 2: worth looking it up? 193 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: Yeah? Like this is already bad, and yeah, I think 194 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: you listeners already know our search engines are going to 195 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: be crazy and people are gonna be like, what's wrong 196 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: with you? 197 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 2: What kind of devian are you? 198 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: But there was so many, and of course a lot 199 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: of them also had connotations of like losing something, everything 200 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: being virgin, So whether you're your first kiss, then you 201 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: got you know, you're a virgin to kissing the type 202 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: of thing. So that had those words as well, So 203 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: I was like, that's not what we're looking for. But yeah, 204 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: right that, uh, that rabbit hole was fun. Yeah, I'm 205 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:35,599 Speaker 1: sure and confusing. 206 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 3: I remember that was the thing too when you were 207 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 3: in high school and you would like, because there's all 208 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 3: those things with cherries on them, righted towards young girls, 209 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 3: and you would be like, somehow that became almost like 210 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 3: an invitation, right, so you I wouldn't. 211 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: Wear anything with cherries on it. 212 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like this, I didn't know. I don't 213 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: think anything with fruit Like it was just weird to 214 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: me to wear any patterns with fruit on it anyway, 215 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: So I didn't, but it was not a thing that 216 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: was in my head. Of course, we did the whole 217 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 1: like tying the stem the cherry stem with your tongue, yeah, 218 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: and that was supposed to be sexual somehow. Everything was 219 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 1: sexual at that point if you're a teenager. So also 220 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: we are going to talk about the hymen throughout. We're 221 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 1: not necessarily looking at it through all of our conversation obviously, 222 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: but it is a topic that we do want to address, 223 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: and go ahead and put that term here, and let's 224 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: go ahead and define it. Which hymen is the thin 225 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: membrane that surrounds the opening of the vagina, and just 226 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: for reference, it comes in all different shapes and it's 227 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: different for every person and some people don't even have it. 228 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: One statistic actually showed that it was one in one 229 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: thousand women who didn't have one at all and never 230 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: did have one. I would say those numbers are definitely 231 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: just an estimation says you can't tell sometimes. 232 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:57,959 Speaker 3: So yeah, oh gosh, that was another like miss about that, 233 00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 3: which I know we're going to get into. But you know, 234 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 3: if you right, you bit too hard, or if you masturbate, 235 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 3: then you basically have, in quotes, the lost year of virginity. 236 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: Right, And that was a concern. I believe that I 237 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: asked my mom. 238 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 3: That I was worried about it, and then now looking 239 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 3: back and I'm like, I. 240 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 2: Was worried about it. Yeah. 241 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: Let's talk about some origins. The term first and foremost 242 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: virginity or version actually came into play into the English 243 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: language in the thirteenth century, and that was derived from 244 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: the French word virgin, which was derived from the Latin virgo, which, 245 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: according to the New World Encyclopedia dot com, was composed 246 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: of ver meaning man or husband and y'all, my Latin's 247 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 1: not good, So don't get at me, because when I 248 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: was listening to it, it just sounded like mumbles and genre 249 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: meaning created for. 250 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 2: And by the way, apparently. 251 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: Genre already had kind of a double meaning on it, 252 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: which meant a female in nuptial subjection to a male. 253 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: So when you put those together, yes, as we said 254 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: in the Merriam Webster definition, this is very heavily leaning 255 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: and putting on top of women in general and female 256 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: in general. 257 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 3: Right, but that is only the English introduction, and yes, 258 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 3: yes it is very sexist. But the value of virginity 259 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 3: as a concept has existed for a while now. In 260 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 3: seventh century BCE, we have the Vestal Virgins, which was 261 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 3: a part of a Roman religion that kept virgins as 262 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 3: priestesses who tended the cult of Vesta, or the Goddess 263 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 3: of the hearth. They were chosen between the ages of 264 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 3: six to ten by the chief priest and served for 265 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 3: thirty years. I was time they had to remain virgins 266 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 3: throughout if they did not follow the rules and attend 267 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 3: to their duties. They would be punished by beating, and 268 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 3: if they gave up their chastity, they would be buried 269 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 3: alive because apparently you can't spill bestal blood, which being 270 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 3: buried alive. 271 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: Is far worse. 272 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 2: Not fine, That sounds so terrible. 273 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 3: But if they follow the rules, they lived a pretty 274 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 3: privileged life, more so than any other women who may 275 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 3: have been married or even single. They were able to 276 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 3: have and handle their own property, and they didn't have 277 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 3: to follow the rules of their fathers or men. I 278 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 3: guess not this priest guy aside, but right. 279 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: Well, there was a chief Yeah, the chief priest was 280 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: in charge of them alone. But when they were released, 281 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: they were fraid to do what they wanted to do, 282 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: right and including they could get married if they want to, 283 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: but they didn't have. 284 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 2: To, which sounds okay to me. 285 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: And of course, there are so many legends and myths 286 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: of sacrificing virgins to appease God's whether it's to calm storms, 287 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: so they would throw virgins to the sea to calm 288 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: that storm and hoping that they could survive and go 289 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: through their passage or to avoid disasters. So you know, 290 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: you've heard them many times where virgins were cast into 291 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: volcanoes or you know, sacrifice at places in order to 292 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: get good harvests, and that has been around for a while. 293 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: There was another religion where they went ahead and buried 294 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: virgins to protect theirs in their area and their community 295 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: from disasters. So it was preemptive. There's that, and of 296 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: course we have also the biblical references such as the 297 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: miracle of the virgin birth Virgin Mary, who is idealized 298 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, including being obviously Protestantism and 299 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: Catholicism both clean to the Virgin Mary. But again we 300 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: also have the whole like the virgin daughters as bries, 301 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: giving away the prize of it all, the offering of 302 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 1: the youngest the virgin two kings as gifts. We've seen 303 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: that in biblical references. And within that also is the 304 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: whore versus the virgin, who is the godly and who 305 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: is the unclean, and how that goes, And we've seen 306 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: that dichotomy within biblical references. So let's keep exploring this 307 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: legend of virgidity. 308 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 3: Yes, but I do want to point out that when 309 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 3: we were talking about this, Samantha was like, yes, the 310 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 3: virgin Mary and I was like our Shamisee Skywalker from 311 00:16:58,280 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 3: Star Wars. 312 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I went biblical as she went Star Wars. 313 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 4: So true. 314 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 3: So the culture of virginity has had a lot of 315 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 3: build up. When we talk about it today, there's a 316 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 3: lot of emphasis placed on who is valued. Like just 317 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 3: going through the examples just then you can see that 318 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 3: value placed on people and what is their value. When 319 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,199 Speaker 3: talking about this value of virginity, the majority of the 320 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 3: time we are linking this to women and linking it 321 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 3: to women's values. Female virginity is often tied to honor, 322 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 3: not only within the individual, but sometimes to family honor 323 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 3: and family shame. 324 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 1: Right, And we're not getting too deep into the cultural 325 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: references because it is it is international when it comes 326 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 1: to the concept of virginity, morality, purity, and the value 327 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: of women based on that. But yeah, it is a 328 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: note to know that it is shown differently in whether 329 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: it's having autonomy with your body, autonomy and being able 330 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: to choose your husband's or your family's future or how 331 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: you want to do that. So that's something of note too, 332 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: But we're not really getting into that in this episode. 333 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 3: Yes, but we are getting into purity culture, which is 334 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 3: something that is often intermixed, are interchangeable with this whole 335 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 3: idea of virginity and its value. 336 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 2: We are going to talk about that a bit more later. 337 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 3: Yes, when we talk about virginity, we usually are placing 338 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 3: the emphasis on women, but there is a similar parallel 339 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 3: for men. Both are steeped with toxic masculinity. We recently 340 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 3: talked about this on a Happy Hour, though the results 341 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 3: are different. While we place a value in overall extreme 342 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 3: opinion on women whether we call a virgin pure, are 343 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 3: those who are no longer virgins whores or sluts. Men 344 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 3: are seen as weak and not a man if they 345 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 3: remain virgins. Men become the basis of the joke if 346 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 3: they're virgins, stuff like forty year old virgin nerds. That 347 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 3: doxicity also pushes into the idea of the more sex, 348 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 3: the bigger the man, or the more madly he is 349 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 3: as compared to women. For women, the bigger the sluts, 350 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 3: the more sex that she's had, which also goes into 351 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 3: the lines of this dangerous idea that men are sexual 352 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 3: and therefore not responsible for their actions thinking with their 353 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 3: dicks for example. Again, this is a very dangerous line 354 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,199 Speaker 3: of thought that allows for men to not take responsibility 355 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 3: for their actions and again lays that responsibility on women, 356 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 3: whether it's the idea that women may be. 357 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 2: Tempting a man or owes them sex or both. 358 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, and it's a whole thing. 359 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 3: We know this. 360 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: We've talked about the level of toxicity rape culture and 361 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: what that brings out, and yeah, we can't deny that 362 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,679 Speaker 1: this purity culture, this virginity culture, this absolute culture and 363 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: basis and ideology has lent evidence to why this is 364 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: so toxic and has like amplified rape culture because of that, 365 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: and it's beyond dangerous and we should not we should 366 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: always recognize that. I think that needs to be pointed 367 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: out every time we talk about it. Yeah, because it 368 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: is something that has put all women and I mean 369 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,439 Speaker 1: honestly all people in danger. 370 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think, like we're talking about kind of 371 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 3: extremes here. But I think also it's frustrating because and 372 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 3: this is very oversimplified generalization, but a lot of men 373 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 3: that I know get angry at women for being like 374 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 3: cold or closed off or playing hard to get whatever, 375 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 3: because they have this idea that they are either owed 376 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 3: sex or they need to have sex so that they're mainly, 377 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 3: but women are being told, well, you have sex, there'res slut, 378 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 3: and there's your value, and so it's like it doesn't 379 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 3: even they're not compatible, they're not so if Again, it's 380 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,439 Speaker 3: such like a tricky thing to define, because I do 381 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 3: think for some women maybe you would like to say, 382 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 3: have more sex or. 383 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 2: Not play this game. 384 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 3: It's like hard to get but it doesn't feel safe 385 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 3: or you feel like you will be judged for it. 386 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 3: So it's just really frustrating because even on like a 387 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 3: basic level, I feel like we're coming from in the 388 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,479 Speaker 3: very heteronormative but like very different scripts or ideas of 389 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 3: what is going to impact us or make us look 390 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 3: good or bad or write things like that. 391 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: Right, and it's very dangerous. Yes, But before we actually 392 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 1: come back to all that, because we are going to 393 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: talk about this again when we talk about purity cultures, 394 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: especially in Western civilization, we're going to talk up about 395 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: some of the old school thoughts. One of some not 396 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 1: so old school thoughts but started old school and it 397 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: still remains and it's kind of scary. But one of 398 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: the conversations that we've had through all throughout history, part 399 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: of the myths of virginity is the virgin cures. So 400 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: throughout history there continued to be a myth that traveled 401 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: throughout the world of the idea that virgins could actually 402 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: cure sdis The practice was first noted in Europe in 403 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: the sixteenth century, but gained prominence in the nineteenth century 404 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: Victorian England. And by the way, that's just again just noted, 405 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: So it probably existed way before then, and we just 406 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: don't know all of the we don't have all of 407 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: those records. But it was also practiced in the US 408 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: at the same time as it was being practiced in 409 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 1: Victorian England, so it's not that far off. Many believe 410 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 1: by having sex with a virgin they could be cured 411 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 1: of sdis like syphilists and god Rhea, instead of realizing 412 00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: they're spreading it. Unfortunately, the continued mythology of this type 413 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: of cure isn't just historical, but was practiced within the 414 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: last twenty years. It was noted that in the early 415 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: two thousands it was still being practiced as a cure 416 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: for AIDS. According to UNICEBS, the culture based gender roles 417 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 1: that prize in a sense of ignorance in girls and 418 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: promoted this idea that men are sexually beings and have 419 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 1: only perpetuated this type of myths that this is a 420 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: cure and all you need to do is find a virgin, 421 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: and not surprisingly, this practice caused a huge rise in 422 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: sexual violence and a continued rape of asault of young 423 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,479 Speaker 1: girls and even infants in affected areas. There was a 424 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: huge conversation about why this was occurring within the nineteenth 425 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: century when it was happening in England and in New York, 426 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: they were buying young children to get this practice, and 427 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 1: it wasn't discouraged until a little while later, even though yeah, 428 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 1: it's horrifying. But again, this kind of also is that 429 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: conversation that we don't really get into, and we really 430 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 1: do need to get to, probably be a part three 431 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,719 Speaker 1: of this episode, honestly, about what value of a virgin 432 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: is when it comes to marginalized communities and how little 433 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: they are looked upon in general anyway. So that kind 434 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: of whole ideology that purity can only happen with white, 435 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: heteronormative women, just white women in general, and that everybody 436 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: else was already impure because they're not right. So that's 437 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: that whole other and then class has everything to do 438 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 1: with that as well. So there's that whole level of conversation. 439 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: But because of that, in this type of gender based 440 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: roles and this prize that this innocence can cure me, 441 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 1: I can take that upon myself, which we've seen that 442 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 1: as other ways. When we were talking about possible serial 443 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,719 Speaker 1: killer who bathed in virgin's blood, right, there is that 444 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: conversation of this is that myth that has perpetuated really 445 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: really dangerous and violent reactions. 446 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 2: Yes, and then there's virgin disease. 447 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 3: There was a time when apparently people believed that there 448 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 3: was a specific disease that could only infect virgins, known 449 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 3: as the disease of virgins in the sixteenth century. Treat 450 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 3: This particular disease, which had vague symptoms of quote feeling faint, breathlessness, 451 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 3: odd eating habits, were all attributed to the idea that 452 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 3: they were infected because the blood within a person's body 453 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 3: couldn't leave the body, and the cure blood letting, which 454 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 3: is a go to at that time, but the better 455 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 3: and more permanent solution was having sex, preferably married sex. 456 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 3: According to the research at the time, quote sex would 457 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 3: open up the body and move the retained blood around, 458 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,959 Speaker 3: and though by this time the idea that the hymen 459 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 3: could be a tell of whether a woman was a 460 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 3: virgin or not was dismissed. It was said that a 461 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 3: virgin having sex would allow for the blood to go 462 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 3: through quote internal mouths that would lead the blood to 463 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 3: go into the womb. And it seemed some believed it 464 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 3: wasn't necessarily that it was a disease of virgins, but 465 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 3: a disease for those who hadn't had children yet, or 466 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 3: at least could get it again if they did bear 467 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 3: children at some point. 468 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: Right, So this whole disease thing was such a weird context, 469 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 1: and it became problematic because that meant when a girl 470 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,439 Speaker 1: started her period, she tried to get married immediately so 471 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: as to not have this disease. And everybody was like, 472 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 1: oh wait, although of course, looking back now younger brides 473 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: were more accepted, but still kind of like, wait, wait, 474 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: maybe we should calm down. And then some other symptoms 475 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: of the disease of virgins, as they called it, included 476 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: your skin turning and an unattractive hue quote unquote perhaps 477 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: greenish or very pale, And apparently the sickness was actually 478 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 1: also called green sickness because of that. But there's also 479 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: a conversation that it could have been called green sickness 480 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 1: because at that point in time, being green means that 481 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: you were a virgin as well, so you weren't quite 482 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: ripe yet. But yeah, it is a whole context, and 483 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 1: it seems about the eighteenth century people would joe about 484 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: this disease, so they've kind of got to the point 485 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: they're like, this is of course, I have a feeling 486 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: this is like a telltale, like the blue Balls telltale 487 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: of what today. But there was a ballad about this 488 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 1: disease called the Infield Common which talks about a lusty 489 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: gallant who helps us save support virgin by helping to 490 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: quote ease her and fully please her. 491 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:21,199 Speaker 2: Wow. 492 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I thought that was interesting and they needed 493 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: to be a part of our discussion. 494 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, virgin disease, okay. And then there is virgin testing. 495 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 3: I bet a lot of you have heard about this, 496 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 3: with the value of virginity impurity being placed as this 497 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 3: like really high commodity. Virginity testing is not a new thing, 498 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 3: but it does still exist. In twenty nineteen, Wrappertei went 499 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 3: on a podcast ragging about how he takes his teenage 500 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 3: daughter to her gynecological appointment every birthday to make sure 501 00:27:58,640 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 3: she is still a virgin. 502 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 2: Obviously, that did not. 503 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 3: Go over well for him, and many were very vocal 504 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 3: about their disgust and even concerned for his daughter, who 505 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 3: didn't make any comments at the time. 506 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 2: Seemed to like a lot of the messages that were. 507 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 3: Disapproving of his words in the ways he was treating 508 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 3: his daughter. And also on your birthday. 509 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: Right, so probably announced this after the fact that it 510 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: was her eighteenth birthday, which is even freaking worse. 511 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that feels that feels like a fairy 512 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 3: tale you would read when you're a kid, and then 513 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 3: as you get an adult, you're like, this is messed up. 514 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: Right, right, And of course since then there's been these 515 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: allegations towards him and his wife, who was I believe 516 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: the mother of the eighteen year old I can't remember, 517 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: of a lot of sexual misconduct on themselves, And I'm like, huh, 518 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: that's about right. 519 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, that surprising, And yeah, this virsion testing is not uncommon. 520 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 3: In fact, the UN documented that at least twenty countries 521 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 3: around the world were stillcticing virginity tests, including the US 522 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 3: and twenty nineteen. 523 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: Right, so, when Full of Project, a nonprofit that reports 524 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: on global issues impacting women, and Marie Claire conducted an 525 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: investigation in twenty nineteen. They found that several countries, including 526 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: the US, were still getting requests for virginity tests to 527 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: be completed on girls. These tests included the two finger 528 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: tests that would examine the person's vagina to see if 529 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: their hymen was still intact, and also instrumental with a 530 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: speculum to actually observe and test to make sure that 531 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: they still had it intact. The many who spoke of 532 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: about these tests talked about how traumatic the overall experience was, 533 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: as well as how damaging it was for them later 534 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: on in life. One woman who was interview stated she 535 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: felt it was rape by instrument and how she has 536 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: been in therapy working on how to cope with the 537 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: effects of the test. In our interview, she details her 538 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: constant fear of not being loved or being judged or 539 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: abused by the mother who forced her to have this 540 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,719 Speaker 1: test after finding out that she had a uni attract infection, 541 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: which made her mother suspect that she'd lost her virginity 542 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: quote unquote, and though the doctor stated that she was 543 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: in fact still a virgin. She learned from then on 544 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: that her virginity was her purity, was her value, and 545 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: she stated it taught her to lie and keep quiet 546 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: even after being molested and later raped, because she felt 547 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: she was damaged and it was her faults as she 548 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: was no longer pure. So that overall trauma that this 549 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: woman experienced just from going back through that test was 550 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: enough to shut her down. 551 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and she is not the only one. 552 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 3: There have been many anonymous groups and social platforms that 553 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 3: have been sought out by a lot of women seeking 554 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 3: support and for people to share their experiences, and many 555 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 3: of these stories included things of our emotions of being 556 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 3: terrified and ashamed and being held down by parents while 557 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 3: a male gynecologist violated them. Yeah sounds extremely traumatic and 558 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 3: all of this needless suffering for an ill conceived myth 559 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 3: created in the fifteen hundreds by a man. But the 560 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 3: sad truth is, although research has shown that these tests 561 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 3: are not true indicators of whether a person with a 562 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 3: vagina is a virgin or not, and as doctor Jennifer 563 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 3: Gunther stated, anybody who perpetuates the idea that virginity has 564 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,719 Speaker 3: anything biological to do with it is incorrect and they 565 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 3: should be toulsol virginity is a patriarchal social construct, so 566 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 3: keep medicine out of it. But yeah, it's still present today. 567 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 3: The WHO and the UN have called for a banning 568 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 3: of the practice, and legislation has even been presented in California, 569 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 3: New York to ban it. None of that has been successful. 570 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 3: People still are pushing for it, but no results yet. 571 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, and honestly, people are still requesting as of 572 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: it was factual, even though again and again and again 573 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: people are disproving that this is even a thing. People 574 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: are not listening, and yeah, are putting young girls through 575 00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: this horrible, horrible experience, it seems. 576 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that reminds me of I believe. 577 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 3: I told the story before of the first time I 578 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 3: went to the gynecologist and I was old, I was pregnant. 579 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 3: I was like nope, and they're like, yep, and apparently 580 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 3: the tests had come back positive. I had to take 581 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 3: another test it came back positive. But that fear of 582 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 3: that moment of like, because you believe, right, if a 583 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 3: doctor's doing a medicine like you think, well then it's 584 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 3: one true or not or whatever result they arrive at 585 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 3: is the correct. But it's in my mind totally possible 586 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 3: that someone who had never had sex might for some reason. 587 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 2: The doctor will be like, yes, you have, and what 588 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 2: can you do to prove them? 589 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 3: And it shouldn't even matter, like it's it's so upsetting 590 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 3: because it but for people who are getting this tests 591 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 3: are making others get this test, and it does and 592 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 3: it's just frustrating that it could be wrong and what 593 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 3: can you do to prove otherwise. 594 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: But we saw as this woman who talked about what 595 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: she went with her mom, who was already abusive. This 596 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: is exactly the type of conversation that he's to be happening, Like, 597 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: you are not protecting that child, and typically they're supposed 598 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: to have some privacy to protect them from things like this. 599 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: And I remember specifically, I had a friend of mine 600 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: who had been raped and she went in and when 601 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: getting all these tests done, I think she's tested positive 602 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: for an SDI and they told her and I think 603 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: she was like I won't say she was pretty young, 604 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: but she was fifteen sixteen, and her dad was present 605 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: with her, and he started calling her a slut and 606 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: started screaming at her, and I think he actually slapped 607 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: her too. But things like that where it's problematic and 608 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: trauma on top of a trauma. And I've seen that 609 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: with kids that I've worked with who have been molested, 610 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: and then they're calling her a slut, and I'm like. 611 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 2: What what? 612 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: Because again this whole level of purity and disgust and 613 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: blaming young girls for this, and again, this is that 614 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: toxicity that we talked about the beginning and why this 615 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: is so concerning, and there's so many lies that people 616 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: perpetuate in the sake of purity and speaking of myths 617 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: and needless myths of virginity and purity. As I researched 618 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: through all the different questions and theories of why people 619 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: value women who are virgins, because I just could not understand. 620 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: I was all into a recent whole of one man 621 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,919 Speaker 1: asking why it scenes he was only interested in women 622 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,240 Speaker 1: who were virgins, and yeah, let's go ahead and add 623 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,319 Speaker 1: the caveat here that they are speaking about the heteronormative 624 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: definition of virgin vaginal penetration from venus. So he's like untouched, 625 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 1: but who knows, because yeah, he seems like the the 626 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: loophole kind of guy, uh, in which he adds a 627 00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: link to telugeny. 628 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 3: Yes, and if you're curious what telegany is. The definition, 629 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 3: according to Marian Webster, is the supposed carrying over of 630 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 3: the influence of a sire to the offspring of subsequent 631 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:20,280 Speaker 3: matings of the dam with other males. In other words, 632 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 3: the sperms of past partners will affect the fetus and 633 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 3: inherent traits that are not of their biological father. 634 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 2: Akaa. 635 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 3: Paternity can be shared by multiple partners. Yes, I actually 636 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 3: have heard of this, now that I know what definition. 637 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:40,879 Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing. Everybody knows what it is without 638 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: the actual word, so or yeah, the theory rather and the. 639 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 2: Ideas behind it. 640 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, yeah, this kind of goes 641 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: into when we talk about the purity culture, the whole 642 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: passing around of the lollipop that you share everyone's germs, 643 00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: right right, right, that's same concept. 644 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and it kind of reminds me of oh gosh, 645 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 3: it's a theory of like why monogamy happened at all, 646 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,760 Speaker 3: And that's one of the theories is basically like men 647 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 3: were very paranoid that they could be tricked into raising 648 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 3: someone else's child, right, and so they wanted it to 649 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 3: be like you've only been with me therefore, I know 650 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 3: this is my child. And that's a very big oversimplification, 651 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 3: right right, I remember reading about that. So, yeah, this 652 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 3: idea originated all the way back with Aristotle, and it 653 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,239 Speaker 3: was a part of Greek mythology and the reason for 654 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 3: the half god theseus who had. 655 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 2: A mortal father and an immortal father. 656 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,320 Speaker 3: And though the theory was dismissed in the early twentieth century, 657 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,399 Speaker 3: apparently it's still floating around today as to why being 658 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 3: pure and virginal is so important for a man to 659 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 3: pick his chosen partner, Because, of course, yes, it's all 660 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,320 Speaker 3: about them choosing the perfect vessel to sire their offspring 661 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 3: or offsprings. 662 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: But yeah, obviously this is the most ridiculous thing I've 663 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: heard in a long time, because you would think this 664 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,479 Speaker 1: would be common sense, but then you start thinking about 665 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,280 Speaker 1: flat earthers and Hugh conspiracy. He said, you're like, okay, 666 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:18,359 Speaker 1: never mind, never mind. But of course that brings us 667 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: back to so how do we remain pure? 668 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 2: Then? 669 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: How do we remain virginal? And if we if we 670 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: made a mistake, which you know happens, how do we 671 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:28,839 Speaker 1: come back to that? 672 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 2: How do we regain our purity? 673 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: And it's not surprising that there's so many articles and 674 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: books that advise on how to remain pure, a virgin, 675 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: or to be repurified revirginated, of course, whether it's procedures 676 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: like horminoplasty, which is the cosmetic repair, restoration or reconstruction 677 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,320 Speaker 1: of a hymen, which is also be referred to as revirginization, 678 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: which you said, and by the way, yes, this isn't 679 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: a sex in the City episode any This is in 680 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:59,720 Speaker 1: the city because they talk about going back and becoming 681 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: re virgin. Charlotte is very concerned that part of the 682 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 1: reason that she's not married is because she has given 683 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 1: it away too many times, as they put it, and 684 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 1: so therefore that there are things that you can become reviginized, 685 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: and for her that meant just not having sex agin 686 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 1: but of course they did talk about that there was 687 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: an option for surgery as well, because you know, they 688 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: all talk about the options. 689 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 2: They didn't do it. 690 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: They didn't do it, but they did talk about it. 691 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,280 Speaker 1: And of course we have the legend of chastity belts 692 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 1: or now church is teaching how to remain or ask 693 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: to be pure, and there's quite a few options in 694 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: trying to live up to the myth of purity, and yes, 695 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 1: a lot of self help books, a lot of prayer groups, 696 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: and a few surgeries. Horminoplasty or reviginization surgery is an 697 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,360 Speaker 1: option that allows for women to restitch a himen. 698 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 2: So the procedure. 699 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:51,959 Speaker 1: If you don't want to know about this, go ahead 700 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: and skip ten seconds in The procedure is an outpatient 701 00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: procedure which is simply cutting away of any torn skin 702 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:03,439 Speaker 1: on the edges quote edges of the hymen gently, after 703 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: which the remaining tissue is stitched together, leaving a small opening. 704 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: According to one health center that offers this procedure here 705 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 1: in Georgia, it takes approximately six weeks to fully heal. Now, 706 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,760 Speaker 1: I think it's a long time to me, but apparently 707 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 1: like you could go back to work to a couple 708 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 1: of days afterwards, but you can't lift anything heavy, you 709 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: can't do anything strenuous. I'm assuming you can't have sex 710 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: the entire time. But yeah, that is the actual procedure, 711 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 1: And that sounded really painful to me, because any kindecological 712 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,360 Speaker 1: appointment is really uncomfortable anyway. 713 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 2: But I'm like, oh my god, what are you doing. 714 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 1: They do use a numbing stuff on it, but they 715 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: don't put you under or anything. 716 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, and there are so many other options for what 717 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,959 Speaker 3: is considered vaginal juvenation, and we could easily talk about 718 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 3: those in another episode, including vaginoplasty. 719 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,320 Speaker 2: And labia plasty, which. 720 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 3: We had we've talked about briefly in other episod but yeah, 721 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 3: we're not gonna get in depths in this one. And 722 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 3: of course there are different reasons someone may want the surgery, 723 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,320 Speaker 3: but we can't ignore the overall reason this is offered 724 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 3: and how some women feel they have no other options 725 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 3: but going down this fairly expensive road. There are different 726 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,400 Speaker 3: stories of women talking about wanting to be able to 727 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 3: give their husbands or future husbands the security of thinking 728 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,120 Speaker 3: they are the only sexual partners they have been with 729 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 3: and that they are still worthy of their love. There 730 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 3: are also some who went down this route out of 731 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,719 Speaker 3: fear or trauma. Many of the sites advertising these services 732 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 3: state that in the case of some rape victims quote, 733 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 3: this surgical procedure may help to feel empowered or feel 734 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 3: mentally peaceful. And again, yeah, not to reiterate, this is 735 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,760 Speaker 3: not scientifically proven at all, and we couldn't find research 736 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,399 Speaker 3: to verify this assumption. But yeah, wanted to put out 737 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 3: there this mere myth of the hymen and its correlation 738 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,760 Speaker 3: has effect on many industries as an effect on many 739 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,920 Speaker 3: and industries do get this and they realize they can 740 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 3: make money off of it. 741 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 1: Right, so they want to be able to give that 742 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: option out. Again, if that is something that happens to 743 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,879 Speaker 1: help someone, then that's wonderful. There's nothing wrong in doing 744 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 1: what you need to recover from trauma. But again, I 745 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 1: really I couldn't when I was looking things up. It 746 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,879 Speaker 1: was mainly about women in shame or women in fear 747 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 1: being rejected more so than doing it for themselves. 748 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 2: So yeah, like truly empowering. 749 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, but again not our choice to make. 750 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:40,920 Speaker 1: People can do what they want. But we're not going 751 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,239 Speaker 1: to sit here and say. 752 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:43,320 Speaker 2: There aren't issues. 753 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and again we're not going to talk too much 754 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,279 Speaker 1: about it in this episode because I know Any is 755 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 1: preparing an episode, so there's a Monday many I believe 756 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 1: items like chastity belt has been a part of the 757 00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 1: myths of purity as well, though it seems the origination 758 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: may have been a bad joke. The idea of an 759 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,400 Speaker 1: ironclad locked undergarment has been around since the Middle Ages 760 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 1: and in the Late Middle Ages, the subject of chastity 761 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: belts was a popular one for satirists, including paintings of 762 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,640 Speaker 1: women wearing nothing but a chastity belt bidding her husband 763 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: a farewell while her lover he is waiting in the 764 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 1: corner with a key for him to leave. So I 765 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:25,040 Speaker 1: thought that was kind of funny. 766 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,239 Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, this is a huge joke. 767 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,440 Speaker 3: Yeap. The actual creation may have come from the Gothic 768 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,880 Speaker 3: Revival and was most likely made for museums and curiosity 769 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 3: shows the tales of torture during the Dark Ages and 770 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:44,440 Speaker 3: most likely around not for use but largely anecdotal or 771 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:45,880 Speaker 3: in burlsk fiction. 772 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 2: Yes you'll learn more soon, listeners. 773 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 3: And speaking of learning more, it turns out that, yes, 774 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,719 Speaker 3: we had a lot to say, and we still have 775 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:57,719 Speaker 3: a lot more to say about virginity. 776 00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,799 Speaker 2: But I think we're going to have to make it 777 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:00,520 Speaker 2: aso parter. 778 00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:01,359 Speaker 1: I think you're right. 779 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, we've been riding the roller coaster and here we are. 780 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 3: So this is the end of part one on our 781 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,480 Speaker 3: look in to virginity. In our next episode we're going 782 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:12,480 Speaker 3: to cover some. 783 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:14,959 Speaker 2: Christian ideologies around it. 784 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,759 Speaker 3: Other things like that, So you'll have to check it 785 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:22,399 Speaker 3: out to learn more. Yes, it's like a Sminty cliffhanger. 786 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 3: In the meantime, if you would like to get in 787 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,800 Speaker 3: contact with us, you can, and we would love to 788 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,360 Speaker 3: hear from you. Our email is Stuffania mom Stuff at 789 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,560 Speaker 3: iheartmia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at 790 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,719 Speaker 3: mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at stuff I've Never 791 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,240 Speaker 3: Told You. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina, 792 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,440 Speaker 3: thank you, and thanks to you for listening Stuff I 793 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,360 Speaker 3: Never Told You production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 794 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,160 Speaker 3: is it the iHeart Radio app? App a podcast or 795 00:43:47,160 --> 00:44:07,240 Speaker 3: where you listen to favorite shows