WEBVTT - Luddism, part two. Ft. Andrew 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:10.160 Al Zone Media. Welcome back to happen Here. 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:12.840 I'm Andrew Sage and you can find my stuff on 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:14.520 my YouTube channel, Andrewism. 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:17.279 I'm joined once again by. 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:22.560 James getting no less a quid as we go, Behi, Andrew. 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:25.360 I'm excited to learn about what we're going to learn 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:25.880 about today. 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:29.680 Yes, we're picking up where we left off by tackling 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:34.239 the Luddites of today. In our previous episode, we unravel 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:37.400 the story of Luodites who sit against the encroaching forces 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.320 of the industrial revolution and more specifically the abuses of 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:44.920 workers by profit seeking capitalists. They were challenging the world 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:48.120 view of lazy fair capitalism with this increase in amalgamation 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:54.000 of power, resources, and wealth, rationalized by its emphasis on progress. Today, 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:56.160 it seems this history as we've repeating itself as we 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:59.720 face a similar struggle against technological changes that come. 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:01.520 About to the detriment of workers. 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.080 As some tech has been used by tech companies in 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:08.200 various industries to drive down wages and worsen conditions for 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:14.080 common workers, say, for example, technological unemployment. For the rights 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:17.240 who once resist the encroachment machines would find their concerns 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.360 reflected in a modern world as a technological advanced ones 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:22.920 often come with the cost of those whose jobs can 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:28.680 be automated away. For instance, in the manufacturing industry, robots 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:32.480 and automated assembly lines of streamline production lead into increased 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:36.520 efficiency and lower costs for companies, but these efficiencies often 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:40.560 meant the displacement of human workers, and such as in manufacturing, 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:46.040 the ripple effects extend to various sectors like customer service, transportation, 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:50.600 and data analysis, and so there's this fere of job 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:57.880 displacement looms large. However, technological unemployment, which is the belief 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:02.040 that as technology advances, human jobs are at risk, potentially 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:07.840 dating to widespread unemployment, has been described by some economists 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:11.519 as a fallacy. Back in the early days of the 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.959 Industrial Revolution, when the advance of mechanization began transform in 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:18.440 various industries and with workers fear and automation would render 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:22.160 them job less and devalue their labor, the people took 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:26.280 a stand, but as time passed, new industries and job 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:30.360 opportunities emerged to replace some of the old ones, ultimately 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:34.920 absorbing that workforce. Fast forward to the twentieth century and 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:38.760 the rise of computers and automation technology reignited concerns about 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:43.040 technological unemployment, but again, new jobs were created in new industries. 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:44.200 Today. 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:48.040 The debate continues as artificial intelligence, robotics, and automation advance 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:51.840 at an unprecedented pace, and it remains to be seen 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:54.640 what the long term consequences of those technologies may be. 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:58.240 My position has really always been that we should be 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:02.040 working less anyway, but instead people are obsessed with creating 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:05.280 new jobs, even when they're unnecessary. See you know, of 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:09.359 course David Graeber is supposed jobs. But you know, even 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:12.200 if the idea of mass unemployment due to tech is 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.680 not true, if we end up replacing the jobs that 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:17.880 are e raised with new jobs. Whatever the case may be, 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:24.559 tech is nevertheless quite capable of destroying livelihoods, creating unintended consequences, 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:28.240 and further concentrating power in the hands of fewer and 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:31.720 fewer people. For every tech advance, whether that makes a 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:35.560 job more fulfilling and enjoyable, there are also those who 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:38.480 make it more tea us and grinding. I mean, yes, 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.920 tech can free us from some tasks. You know, accountants 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:44.840 have digital spreadsheets to make their lives much easier. For example, 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.760 writing is way easier now that the personal computers is 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:54.560 more common. But while technological progress can produce prosperity, there's 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.440 really no guarantee that the prosperity. 0:03:56.920 --> 0:03:58.320 Will reach the workers. 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:01.960 In most cases, on the cut, it very clearly doesn't. 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:06.240 In fact, many of the benefits of the industrial revolution 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.800 were really not felt by the workers until decades later, 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:14.080 after many of them have been you know, crushed or 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:17.560 poisoned or killed or you know, died in a factory 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:21.120 fire or whatever they shut down when protesting, you know, 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:23.279 like that, they didn't see the benefits until much later on. 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:26.640 You know, it's not like, you know, these things introduced 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:31.880 and boom, everybody benefits. I mean even now, not everybody 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:36.440 in the world is benefiting from you know, the computer age. 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:40.719 There are still many people, like for example, in the Congo, 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:46.920 who are endurance, slavery and staves like conditions in order 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:50.159 to you know, procure the materials necessary for the computer 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:54.320 age totally, and yet they're not seeing those benefits and 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.680 arranged we're seeing when they'll see the benefits that many 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.440 of us enjoy in various parts of the world, and 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:05.479 particularly that there was enjoy in the global North in 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:10.359 our relentless pursuit of progress and technological advancement as defined 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:15.240 by capitalism, we also end up losing our nature, our community, 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:20.119 and in many cases are craftsmanship. I mean remember John Booth, 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:22.800 the one who had said can you keep a secret? 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.920 Or so can I? He has other words? 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:27.960 You know that the new machinery might be man's chief 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.960 blessing himself his curse if society were differently constituted. 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:33.400 That's where I have to. 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:37.440 Bring in the one and only the ls I've spoken 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:41.000 about him before, of course, the Austrian philosopher, the theologia 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:42.679 and the sort of everything. 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:47.599 Guy Ivan Ilich. Oh, yeah, fun times, fun times. Yeah. 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.320 He was a thinker ahead of his time. You know, 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:52.839 it's really strange in some of his positions, I think, 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:59.080 but a lot of his concepts resonate today in various movements. 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:04.200 One of the foundational concepts in the modern movement of 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:09.520 the growth is the concept of conviviality, which was redefined 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:16.120 and introduced in the context of our Tools in Ilish's 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:21.320 book Tools of Conviviality. Eligio's vision, as explored by the book, 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:25.160 is one in which technology serves humanity, not to plant it, 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:31.000 where convivial tools empower individuals and communities, fostering creativity and 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:34.000 autonomy while preventing the concentration of power in the hands 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:39.920 of the few. According to il conviviality is individual freedom 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:44.880 realized in personal interdependence. It's basically the ability of individuals 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:49.320 to interact and to interact creatively and autonomously with others 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:52.960 and the environment to satisfy their individual and collective needs. 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.520 Convivial tools are those which are robust and durable, preserve 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:01.719 or enhance ecosystems, level unequal power relationships, and give each 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.719 person who uses them the greatest opportunity to enrich the 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.800 environment with the fruits of their vision. And a convivial 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.360 society is one in which tools, which, according to ilag 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:16.800 includes physical hardware, productive institutions, and productive systems. So tools 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:23.880 will be factories, hospitals, schools, farms, all of those things 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:26.520 are being included in his definition of tools, and a 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.040 convivial society is one of which those tools operate on 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:33.120 the humans scale and save the people instead of rulers. 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.720 The idea of convivial tools really challenges us to view 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:51.120 technologies and means to enhance our lives rather than displace 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:54.400 our livelihoods. It's a call to harness innovation for the 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:58.840 bettering of society instead of the perpetuation of radical monopolies, 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:02.920 which I spoke about in a previous it can happen 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:07.679 here episode. I think a Lodites like John Booth would 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:12.800 have certainly appreciated that message, yea, and to the rights 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:17.360 of today certainly do because yeah, I'm not the first 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.040 nor the only person to see lessons to be learned 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:24.000 from the la Lite movement. The concept of a Neolodite 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.720 movement has been embraced by a variety of folks who 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:30.200 may or may not understand what the original Latite movement 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:33.440 was about. Like, you know, you have these primitivists who 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.080 embrace the Neolotte cause because I think it means hate 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:39.160 and technology, and you have the anarchists and the trade 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:42.360 unionists and the environmentalists. We're looking more at the label, 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.920 organized and roots of the original Latite movement, and of 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:49.920 course even see echoes of you know, Ogloodite action in 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:52.599 the vandalism against self driving cars. 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:54.640 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:08:55.120 --> 0:09:00.360 The Neolodite movement is composed of activists, workers, scholars, and 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:04.040 social critics who stand against the predominant worldview that unbridled 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:08.560 technology represents progress, point ins key, then critiques, and in 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:12.320 some cases actual action against technologies and tech companies who 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:17.560 desecrate our planet and our society. Philosopher Lewis Mumford, who 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.840 had written the Myth of the Machine Pentagonic Power, reminds 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:25.520 us that technology encompasses more than just physical objects. It 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:29.240 also includes the techniques of operation and the social organizations 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:31.160 that make up particular technology work. 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:34.400 Technology reflects our worldview. 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:38.240 The forms of technology we embrace, whether they be machines, techniques, 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:42.160 or social structures, are seemply rooted in our perception of life, death, 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.640 human potential, and the relationships between humans and nature. 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:50.160 Our choice of technology, in many ways, mirrors. 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:53.439 Our outlook on the world. That outlook in the modern 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.520 world is shaped by a rather mechanistic approach to life, 0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:02.880 characterized by rational thinking, efficiency, delitarianism, scientific detachment, and a 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:06.920 belief in humanities, ownership and supremacy over nature. That's a yeah, 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:09.720 we're going to text like the military industrial complex, and 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:16.040 they weren't sprawl. Honestly, in a sense, the old ltites 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:20.720 kind of had it easy. Not I mean, obviously their 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:24.320 conditions were horrible. When I say they had it easy, 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:26.600 I mean it's in the sense that their machines could 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:28.480 be destroyed by their sledgehammers. 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.000 Right, yeah, yeah, what technology is a lot more ephemoral. 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:34.520 You know, it's in the cloud. 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:38.880 It's as nebulous as microplastics in the soil, the water, 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.480 and the breast milk. I mean, it's everywhere, and it's 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:43.560 integrated into everything. It's like, where do you even begin? 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:44.560 Yeah? 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:44.840 Wow. 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:51.120 In the book When Technology Wounds by Psychologists Childish Clendening 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:57.880 by psychologists Chellis Clendening, she studied technology survivors, people who 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:00.880 had suffered injury or illness in recent years after being 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:05.000 exposed to various toxic technologies in their homes and workplaces, 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:11.160 whether nuclear, radiation, pesticides, asbestos, both control devices, or drugs, 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:13.520 and covered how they had begun to question not only 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:18.000 the processes that maimed them, but the world that indifferently 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:22.040 forced those processes on them under the guise of progress. 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.640 Glendoning saw these victims as the basis of a new 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:30.240 bloodlight movement struggling against what has been called the Second 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:34.920 Industrial what has been called the Second Industrial Revolution. Alongside 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:39.360 thinkers like Lewis Mumford and Ivan Ilich, those survivors have 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:41.839 gone on to create groups such as Asbestos Victims of 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:46.760 America Aspartame, Victims of their Friends, Citizens Against Pesticide Misuse, 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:51.400 DALK and Shield Information Network des action In, National National 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:55.960 Association of Atomic Veterans, National Committee for Victims of Human Research, 0:11:56.320 --> 0:12:00.679 National Toxics Campaign, and the VDT Coalition, of course are 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:03.640 based in the US, and there are also actives groups 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:07.200 like earth First that could could have been classified under 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:11.199 the Neolotte cause and Earthful strategy was to stop environmental 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:12.280 intrusions by. 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:14.600 Any means available, legal and otherwise. 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:18.400 So they would be slashing engines, slashing tires, disabling engines, 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:22.920 blocking roads. Most famously, they would drilled spikes into trees 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:26.840 and wilderness forests to prevent them from being logged by chainsaws. 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:29.920 Yeah. 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.679 But you know, while all these movements and organizations are 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:34.960 happening in the Western world, it really wasn't just the 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.680 Western world where this is happening. A positive undercurrent of 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:42.480 the right spirit has surged where indigenous peoples have led 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:46.080 the charges against the incursions of industrialism. Quncities are mainly 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:49.640 resisting the machines and projects from dustrialization, but also pushing 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:53.840 back against its cultural impact. Peasants and farmers staunchally rejecting 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:57.800 participation in the various development initiatives imposed upon them by 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:01.440 compliant governments, often in the inence, often under the influence 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:04.680 of entities like the World Bank or the US State Department. 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:09.120 For example, during the early nineteen eighties, some farmers in 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:12.120 Mali took a stand against the construction of dams and 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:15.079 dykes for a rice growing program that they wanted no 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:19.000 part of. Other communities elsewhere have rallied to hold dam 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.600 projects that threatened to submerge their ancestral lands, and some 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.800 of them successful, as seen of the villagers who protested 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.840 the Narmada Dam in India in the early nineteen nineties, 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:32.920 and others have faced more daunting challenges, like the people 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:36.199 of eastern Java who protested against the Neper Irrigation Dam 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.160 and faced deadly consequences at the hands of Indonesian security 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:46.680 forces in nineteen ninety three. Intergous tribes have also organized 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:50.240 to combat deforestation and road building projects that encroached upon 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:54.040 their territories. The Chipco tree huggan movement in India during 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:57.600 the nineteen seventies and eighties famously succeeded in stopping government 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:01.280 clear cutting efforts and similar projects of echoed across the globe, 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:05.240 from Malaysia to Australia, Brazil to Costa Rica, Solomon Islands, 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:10.040 Indonesia and beyond. Traditional fishermen in many regions, such as 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:13.920 the Indians of continent, Malaysia, Indonesia, and multiple ports along 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:17.040 the Pacific coast of South America including Ecuador and Columbia, 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:20.120 have also taken action against industrial fish and fleets encroaching 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:23.840 on their waters and jeopardizing their livelihoods. In some cases, 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:27.760 these protests may have involved the destruction of machinery, but sabotage, 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:29.520 you know, is not unheard of, like in the case 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.040 of a high tech chemical plant in Thailand in nineteen 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:37.200 eighty six. The driving force behind these actions really mirrors 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:40.040 to ethos you know, as they share this full und 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:42.600 desire to preserve the traditional ways of life and livelihood 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:46.080 in the face of industrial capitalisms relentless pull towards a 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:50.160 wage and market system. And then, of course, outside these 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:54.400 movers and shakers, these underground activists, there are also you know, 0:14:54.440 --> 0:15:01.160 the philosophical lirites. Like the aforementioned illage. The Neola spectrum 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:05.840 is more diverse and intriguing than one might imagine. While 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:09.040 it may not have crystallized into a more formal movement 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.760 with clear representatives, as is expected of movements these days, 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:16.480 it unites a wide array of individuals to share common 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:20.880 awakening from the allure of unchecked technology and resist various 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:26.760 aspects of the industrial monoculture. Perhaps in the connections between 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.920 these separate groups strengthen we'd see a greater recognition of 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:34.800 the interconnected challenges in this grand tapestry of all evolving world. 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:37.680 But the thing is to address the challenges posed by 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:41.320 these technologies. It's not enough to merely regulate or eliminate 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:45.520 in visual items like pesticides or nuclear weapons. What's required 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:48.480 as a profound shift in our thinking about humanity and 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:52.200 in our relationship to life itself. We need to craft 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:56.040 a new worldview that paves the way for a different 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:58.960 way of interacting with our world, our technologies, and our 0:15:58.960 --> 0:15:59.920 fellow human beings. 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:02.800 We need to reconsider a. 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:04.760 Place in the ground scheme of things and to imagine 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:08.520 a world where harmony and balance take precedence of a 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:14.440 domination and control. In Notes toward a Neulart Manifesto written 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:18.560 in nineteen ninety also by Cheldish, Clendoning, The author outlines 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:22.400 three core principles and four prescriptions that could drive the 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:26.240 Neulrite movement. In terms of principles, firstly, and I suppose 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:31.760 most essentially to addressing the misconception, Neulorites are not anti technology. 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:36.560 Actually says technology is intrinsic to human creativity and culture. 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:39.320 But what they oppose are the kinds of technologies that 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:44.520 are at root destructive of human lives and communities. The 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:49.800 next principle two is that all technologies are political. Quote 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:54.440 a social critic Gerrymander rights in four argumented Elimination of Television, 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:56.960 a book I read some years ago, by the way 0:16:56.960 --> 0:17:01.080 that a Ferminian to revisit. But continuing the quote, technologies 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:03.440 are not neutral tools that can be used for good 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:06.600 or evil dependent on who uses them. They are entities 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.880 that have been consciously structured to reflect and serve specific, 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:14.680 powerful interests in specific historical situations. The technology is created 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.840 by mass technological society. Are those that serve the perpetuation 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:20.760 of mass technological society. They tend to be structured for 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:25.840 short term efficiency, ease of production, distribution, marketing and profit potential, 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.080 or for war making. As a result, they tend to 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:32.280 create rigid social systems and institutions that people do not 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:38.320 understand and cannot change or control. The last principle three 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:42.040 is that the personal view of technology is dangerously limited. 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:46.960 Glendening argues that the oftenhood message, but I couldn't live 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:49.879 without my mood processor. 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:52.560 Because of course she's right in this. You know, years 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:53.080 and yeares ago. 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.440 Yeah, yeah, you have my word automatic typewriter. 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:00.840 Yeah, but this oftenhod message that I couldn't live up 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:02.880 my word process. So, and I guess you could substitute 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:07.960 that for smartphone, not computer. That message denies the wider 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:12.119 consequences of widespread use of computers, for example, the toxic 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.600 contamination of workers and electronic plants, or the certifying of 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:19.000 corporate power through exclusive access to new information and databases. 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:25.400 As Manda points out, producers and disseminators of technologies tend 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:30.439 to introduce their creations and upbeat utopian terms. You know, 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:34.000 pesticides will increase yields to feed a hungry planet. Nuclear 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.600 energy will be too deep, too cheap to meter. 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:37.200 Et cetera. 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:39.399 And of course you know you have to throw in 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:45.280 that potshot had nuclear energy. It's very very twentieth century 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:51.120 coded text. Yeah, however, quote. Learning to critique technology demands 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:55.880 fully examining its sociological context, economic gratifications, and political meanings. 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.960 It involves asking not just what is gained for what 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:01.439 is lost and by who. It also looking at the 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:04.320 introduction of technologies from the perspective not only a few 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:07.040 in use, but of their impact on other living beings, 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:13.320 natural systems, and the environment. And then there's the neololide program, 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:15.760 which loses me a bit at some points, even where 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:19.320 I may agree with some of their principles, and you know, 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:22.240 you might say that's a sign of my propagandized mind 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:24.480 in our technological society. 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:27.119 But I'll leave you to be the judge of that. 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:33.640 Here's what Glendening explicitly proposes one, as I moved toward 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.480 dealing with the consequences of modern technologies and preventing further 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.240 destruction of life, the new Lolite movement should favor the 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:46.000 dismantling of nuclear technologies, chemical technologies, genetic engineering technologies, television, 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:52.640 electromagnetic technologies, and computer technologies, which, according to them, you know, 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.440 according to her Coales, disease and death create dangerous me 0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:59.919 to gens. In case of television functions, as a centralized 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:04.600 I'm controlling force, poisons. 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:05.760 The environment, all these different things. 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:07.440 And I mean I gets some of the justifications for 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:10.720 some of these technologies, right, Yeah, of course, disease, death, 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:16.320 you know, pollution, social issue is right, yeah, But I 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:18.320 at same time, I don't believe in through and I 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:20.119 was entire sciences and technologies. 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:21.600 Who will see like that? 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.560 You know, it feels like it feels like a very 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:27.520 myopic view being presented on some of these texts. 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:31.159 Yeah, I mean, I guess this was before really the 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:35.119 decentralization of some of the means of dissemination of information 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:38.480 that happened kind of later on with things like some 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.080 parts of the Internet. I don't want to say by 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:43.840 any means of the Internet is decentralized, but at least 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:47.159 the promise of that which we occasionally see deliver as well, right, 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:50.520 Like if you saw today that I was just watching 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:53.879 a video of the Yeppe Gay in Syria that the 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:58.760 people in Rajaba like talking about the importance of women 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:02.160 in the revolution in me and and like just occasionally 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:05.280 the internet or technology gives us the thing they were 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:10.080 supposed to give us, a disability to connect without barriers. Absolutely, 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:14.159 but yeah, like you said that that's the computer or 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:16.000 the cell phone and that was recorded on or whatever 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:20.360 happened because somebody somebody in the congo and in horrific 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:24.120 conditions and the DC had to dig out some rare 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:26.560 earth chemical and then got paid next to nothing and 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:31.480 their ancestral homeland was ruined by some rabid company that 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:33.720 makes billions of dollars and pays people like shit. 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:35.160 Yeah. 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:38.840 Yeah, So, I mean, I absolutely agree that the supply 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:43.520 side of a lot of these technologies need to change drastically. Yeah, 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:45.760 and also the you know, just the supply gene as 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:48.879 a whole, you know, from the raw materials to the 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:52.640 finished product and how it gets to us. I mean, 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:55.480 that might mean no more of certain technologies, or it 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:58.320 might mean a different approach, but it really remains to 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:02.679 be seen. We really haven't tried other approaches because you know, 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:15.840 we live under this capitalist hegemony. The next step in 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:20.000 the program to the New Rite movement should favor a 0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:23.280 search for new technological forms and the creation of technologies 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:27.200 by the people directly involved in their use, not by scientists, 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:31.200 engineers and entrepreneurs who gain financially from mass production and 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:33.800 distribution of the inventions. I don't know little about the 0:22:33.800 --> 0:22:37.680 context in which their technologies are used. I don't necessarily 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:40.199 believe in, you know, splitting it down the middle like that, 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:43.439 as if you know, scientists and engineers are not going 0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:45.000 to be the people that are directly involved in their use. 0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:47.639 And in some cases that's true. 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:50.800 But another case is, you know, you know, people who 0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:52.919 are using the pros sometimes the people who invented it. 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:54.879 Yeah, iterated on that to whatnot? 0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:58.480 Like when I think about before there were three D 0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:01.119 printing weapons in a revution in the amber, they were 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:04.000 three D printing press theses because land minds are so 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:07.800 common there, right, and so like for those people where 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:10.439 the engineer is a person whose brother or sister or 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:13.440 non binary sibling or what have you needs a leg, 0:23:13.960 --> 0:23:16.639 and so they have iterated or designed a leg, and 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:20.320 like that person is very much both like benefiting from 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:23.400 the end use and doing the engineering exactly. 0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:25.760 I get this is kind of like, you know, a 0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:28.080 screed against the Ivory tower types. 0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:31.200 But yes, I don't think that reflects on you know, 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:32.080 all of. 0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:36.639 The or even most of the scientists and engineers. A 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:40.479 lot of engineers on the ground, a lot of you know, 0:23:40.680 --> 0:23:44.000 barefoot scientists as the expression is. 0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:47.399 Yeah, yeah, Nick, when we talk about things like permaculture 0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:50.119 or the things we talked about before, like, some of 0:23:50.119 --> 0:23:52.560 that is a science too, right. We have a thesis 0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:54.679 and we test it and we prove it, and we 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:58.199 keep iterating on it like it's a hypothesis, I should say, Like, 0:23:59.119 --> 0:24:01.399 and that's certainly a sign which is rooted in a 0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:03.520 place and people and respect for the environment. 0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:08.840 Yeah, I mean the manifesto goes a little bit further 0:24:08.960 --> 0:24:12.159 on this particular point. You know, she's advocating for the 0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:14.600 creation of technologies that are of a scale and structure 0:24:14.640 --> 0:24:16.880 that makes them understandable to the people who use them 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:19.720 and are affected by them. She's advocating for the creation 0:24:19.760 --> 0:24:22.160 of technology is built with a high degree of flexibility, 0:24:22.520 --> 0:24:24.159 so that you do want to impose a rigid and 0:24:24.240 --> 0:24:27.320 iror woosibile imprint on their users. And she's advocating for 0:24:27.359 --> 0:24:30.479 the creation of technologies are foster independence from technological addiction 0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:35.080 and promise political freedom, economic justice, and ecological balance. 0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:38.880 They are I can't disagree, you know. 0:24:39.240 --> 0:24:40.960 Yeah, I know, I'm down with that. 0:24:41.680 --> 0:24:44.080