WEBVTT - Crisis-Proofing Your Finances with Michelle Singletary #373 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.120 Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Max, 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:26.960 and today we're talking crisis proofing your finances with Michelle Singletary. Yeah, Joel. 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:30.520 Michelle Singletary is an award winning personal finance columnist for 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:34.640 The Washington Post. She's also a frequent contributor to NPR 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.760 and She She regularly appears on CNN and has also 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:40.840 appeared on NBC's Today Show. On CBS is The Early 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:44.760 Show as well. And Michelle She She's written multiple books 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:47.440 on personal finance, and her latest book, What to Do 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:50.960 with Your Money When Crisis Hits, was just published last month. 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:54.000 Not only is it an incredible resource for folks who 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.360 find themselves in difficult times right now, but it's also 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:01.440 just chock full of practical money advice, uh that you 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:04.679 know that we believe everyone should be incorporating into their lives. 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:07.040 It's kind of the financial advice that your grandma would 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:09.520 approve of, right is that We're excited to get to 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:13.040 talk to Michelle Singletary today and learn more about our books. 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.960 So Michelle, thank you for joining us today. Oh, thank 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:18.640 you so much for having me. Michelle. We are so 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.720 glad to have you. You are a personal finance icon, 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:26.120 I would say this, don't that sounds so old? No, No, 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:28.679 it's just because you've been doing it so well for 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:30.920 long enough, and you're not You're not old. You've got 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:33.200 plenty of years left in year to like establish that 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:38.000 personal finance yon status even more. But but hey, so Michelle, 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:40.160 the first question we ask anyone who comes on the show. 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:42.679 Matt and I we like craft beer something we're into, 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:46.039 and we drink a craft beer on most episodes. But 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:49.040 for us, it's something that we're willing to splurge on 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:51.880 in the here and now while we're also trying to 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:54.639 do a really good job of saving and investing for 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:57.240 the future. So, yeah, do you have something like that 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:01.280 that a splurge or craft beer equivalent? Okay, so this 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:06.320 is not going to go over, but my hobby is 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:12.160 saving money. So if you ask, like my husband and 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.440 my kids what I splurg on, they would just roll there. 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:24.040 I think probably multiple Scrabble dictionaries maybe the only thing. 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:27.040 I just don't have a lot of things that I 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:31.560 really want to be honest, I know it's terrible, but 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:34.840 I just think multiple scrabble dictionaries that's the I mean 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.680 to me, that sounds excravagant, like I would never buy that. 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:42.400 So yeah, you know, I think I get it. I 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:45.440 have a mini one and a big one, but I 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:48.520 M I just don't. You know, it's so interesting you 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.920 ask that, because when it comes time for holidays or 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:55.359 Christmas or my birthday or anniversary, my kids and my 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:57.960 husband like, go, what do you want? And I just 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:02.399 can't think of anything because I just I'm so comfortable 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:06.320 in my skin, and I'm comfortable with the things that 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:09.520 I do for people as enjoyment. And I know I 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.360 don't want it to sound so pious, but when you 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:15.040 don't come from a lot and you just spend your 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:19.760 whole life trying to create financial security, when you get secured, 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:23.920 that's sort of the gift itself. And I just I 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:26.840 don't want any jewelry or clothes, or a certain kind 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:29.919 of car, or even craft beer. I don't really drink, 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:34.160 but if I did, it would be craft beer. Um. 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.760 And I just don't want for anything that's awesome. I 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:39.760 think that that says a lot about who you are 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:41.520 as a person. And I mean, and I picked up 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:43.640 on something there too. You mentioned how just your ability 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:46.200 to help others, And I think oftentimes when you are 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:48.920 comfortable when you are in a position of just where 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:52.520 your finances are solid like that, oftentimes you can look 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:54.760 to other people and find ways to enrich their lives. 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:56.960 That's certainly something that you've done over the years. You've 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:59.920 been writing just great money content now for the Washington 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.040 was for years. You know, can you tell some of 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:05.520 like the early Michelle singletary story, what got you interested 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:07.560 in money in the first place, and then you know 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:10.600 what spurred you on to actually write about it? Yeah, 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.720 so I was. I came to live with my grandmother, 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:16.719 who we called Big Bama, when I was four, and 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:20.360 there were five of us who ended up she took in, 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.919 so my older sister who was eight, I was four. 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.159 As I said, I had a sister who was three, 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:30.279 and grand brothers who were just under two, and so, um, 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:32.800 we came to live with my grandmother. And my grandfather, 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:35.200 although a good guy, just had you know, he had 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:37.640 a drinking problem, so he didn't always come home. He 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.320 didn't always come home with his money, and so my 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:44.039 grandmother had to make do caring for us with the 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:47.960 money that she earned as a nursing assistant in a hospital. 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:52.360 And my grandmother also didn't take the welfare cash payments 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.080 because she was just so proud and she didn't want 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:57.840 them in the house and telling her what she couldn't 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:01.640 couldn't have, and so just her salary she raised us. 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:05.960 And I just I learned at her feet. I mean, 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:09.960 my grandmother if she held a penny Lincoln with screens 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.520 and she and the thing that I learned from her 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:17.800 is that she never apologized for what she couldn't buy us. 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:19.920 You know, sometimes when you grow up poor and your 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:22.600 parents can give you, they just feel always so sorry 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.320 about that, and you pick up on that as a child. 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.440 She never felt sorry that she couldn't buy his brand 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:30.880 name sneakers, or we didn't have a lot of clothes 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.320 and things like that, because she just said, listen, this 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.839 is all I can afford and we you need to 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:38.159 be satisfied with that, and I need to be satisfied 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:40.320 with that. And that's what I picked up for my grandmother. 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:43.239 So now fast forward, I'm working for the Baltimore Evening 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:47.000 Sun covering you know, comps and county government, and the 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.599 business editor, who's a female, uh woman, came up to me. 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.719 Uh it was a Patricia Fanning. Um. She said, you 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:55.960 know listen, I'm trying to rebuild the business section, and 0:05:55.960 --> 0:06:00.000 I want young people, I want blocks, I want women. Um, 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:02.400 you know, she just wanted to create a diverse staff 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:06.320 because back in the day, the Business section was all about, 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.440 you know, just business and investing, and it was just's 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.000 just be clear, it was just white guys, right, older 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:15.160 white guys, and oftentimes it was people towards the end 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.960 of their career. That's it was a comfortable place. You 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:20.120 didn't have to work weekend, you didn't have to work holidays, 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:22.279 and so it was kind of a place you when 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:23.839 you did good work, but you would kind of on 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:26.400 your way out to be tied. And when she asked me, 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:31.560 I thought trying to tell me something. She said, no, no, dear, 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:33.960 And so I went to work for the Business section. 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:36.680 And then because of my work for the Evening Sun, 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:39.600 I got noticed by the Post. They offered me a position. 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:44.760 I took it. And as I'm I'm very baltimorean, so 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:47.680 very down the earth, and I go to Washington News 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:51.080 or and where people are having these power lunches and 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.719 I'm bringing my bag lunch to work, eating at my desk, 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:56.400 and you were like, you want to go out to lunch. 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:59.960 It was like, you people are insane all this money 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.279 that y'all spending or eating and things. And I would 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:05.240 just talk a lot about saving and the things that 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:08.000 my grandmother taught me. And these people are looking at 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:11.720 me like where did they get this country bumpkin? And 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:14.280 then my business editor said, you know, you tell all 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.760 these stories about your grandmother and how you got you 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:19.840 were raised and money issues, you how to just write 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:22.400 a column about that. We've never had anything like that 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:25.280 in the business section, just a personal finance column about 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:28.680 what it's like to be raised, you know, African American 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:32.440 in Baltimore, any city. And I wrote that first column. 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:36.440 It was called Big Mama's Savings Grace I'll Never Forget. 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:39.480 And at that time, you know, we weren't into like 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:43.200 instant messaging and email, so people were actually sent letters. 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:47.880 They've got so many bags of letters that it was 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.560 just unheard of that somebody in the business section was 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:53.360 getting all these letters from all across the country. People 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:57.400 had picked up the column from different sites, and um, 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:00.520 they were just like, oh my gosh, you're writing for me. 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.120 And they understood that that I was a black female, 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:06.160 but they were like, yeah, I had a grandmother like that, 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:08.160 and she was Jewish or I had you know, a 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:11.440 pop up like that, and it just that's sort of 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:15.040 how I got into this space of personal finance, just 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:20.240 by living among my peers. The things that my grandmother 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:24.520 taught me about many. Wow, your grandma sounds like such 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.840 an incredible woman, And yeah, can you share maybe like 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.440 some of the I love what what you mentioned when 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:32.600 you're talking about like to not be ashamed of the 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:34.600 fact that you can't spend money on certain things. What 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:37.480 else did she teach you that you still live by 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.800 today or that it's still just incredibly important principles for you? Well, 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.600 oh so much. It's just like, um well, the one 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:47.920 thing she taught me that I have lived by. So 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:50.600 my grandmother taught me that the moment you get your 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:53.719 first paycheck, I don't care what is the what is 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:55.520 thought if you get it in cash or a paycheck, 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:59.080 you put aside a certain percentage of that check or 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:02.960 that you know to post every single time you get 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:05.960 a check. And I started working on it's about fourteen. 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:10.680 I was a mentor tutor, um so some other children. Uh, 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.120 and so from that very first check, she taught me 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:16.280 how to put somebody aside, whether it be ten percent 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:18.720 or twenty She's like, even if it's just the dollar, 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:23.240 every piece of money that crosses your palm, you shave 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:27.520 off her peace for saving. And so when I graduated 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:30.160 from University of Maryland College Park, and I went to 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.360 work full time for The Evening Sun. My first day, 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.680 I covered this huge fire in downtown Baltimore, and it 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.160 was just like you know, I was reading the midst 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.120 of it, and my story made the front page, of course, 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.199 and I called my grandmother and I said, oh my, 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:47.360 but my mom, I'm on the front page of the 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:51.600 Evening Sun. She says to me, did you go up 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:55.120 to hr and make sure that she took part of 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:57.480 your paycheck and put it in the credit union? I 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:00.720 said no, did I tell you all to click? And 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.960 I said that this woman hang up with me. I thought, okay, 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:05.880 it was must have been an accident. So I called 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:08.559 her right back. I said all the phone was got disconnected, 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:10.720 and I started to tell her about my big story, 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:14.760 and she says, did you go make sure that a 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:17.400 part of your paycheck has put away in the bank. 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:19.839 I said, now I had time to do that. Click up, 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:26.640 I said, I So I left my desk at that 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:30.000 moment that my big day, and I went up to 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:33.280 HR and I made sure that a portion of my 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.240 paycheck was put away. Then I went back to the 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:39.520 newsroom and I called her. She asked the same question. 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:41.640 I said, I sure did. Now. She said, now tell 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:47.079 me about that story. And I've lived by that everything 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.000 I get. If it's a book of ants, it's whatever 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:53.800 I put money aside right away. Always, I don't splurge 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:57.000 at all. And that was the key part of what 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:00.520 she taught me. And then I think secondary in my 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.400 my grandmother just always talked about not giving in to 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.640 peer pressure as a child, as a teenager, as a 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:10.640 young adult, as a you know, working professional. You just 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:13.080 do what you can afford and don't worry about what 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:16.800 anybody else says, and not just live my life like that. 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:18.839 You know, I work at the Washington Post. I've been 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:21.320 on you know, big news programs. I've been you know, 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:24.920 when when Oprah had her television show, and I remember 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:26.880 when I was going to be on the Oprah Show. 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:29.440 My nephew was like, oh, you're a big time now. 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:32.240 And that time I was driving some used car. He said, 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:34.079 you need to get a new car because this is 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:37.160 your life now, and I was just like, nope, just 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:39.520 driving this old car. In fact, I didn't even get 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:41.880 my hair done for open show. I was the same 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:43.880 outfit I had in one of my car in my closet. 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.520 Because I said, Oprah hasn't something anything that I woren before. 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:50.520 I did not make a big deal about it at all. 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:53.800 And that's just that's something that I learned from my grandmother. 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.439 That's that's awesome. I mean, so, yeah, you mentioned peer 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:58.280 pressure even from your nephew. You know he's trying to 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:03.000 pressure you and car. But you know, you've been in 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:04.680 the space for a while now, Like, what are some 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.000 of the different changes you've seen over the years, either 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:08.760 in the personal finance space or you know, even just 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:10.959 in our culture today. You know that you feel it 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.319 has made it harder to convince others to make smart 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:15.840 moves with their money, right, Like, obviously peer pressure has 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:17.960 been around for forever, but do you feel like that 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:21.560 you've seen certain aspects of our life just kind of 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.079 ramp up in the in the recent years. I think 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:29.240 with the advot of social media, uh, you can see 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:33.840 more of what people are doing twenty four seven, So 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.439 you know, We always had the television shows of rich 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:39.240 and famous shows and things like that that kind of 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.960 press you in commercials. But now you have it not 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.120 just on our television, but now we have it every 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.360 time we look at our phone, you know, every time 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.440 we sign onto work. You know, you have ads falling 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:54.599 you across platforms, and so there's more of a barrage 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.920 of what you have isn't good enough that you need 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.920 to update and look at this thing, look at these 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:06.199 cool people. Um, you have influencers who um or paid 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:09.640 to wear certain things and do certain things that make 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:13.760 you feel like you're missing out, even with Facebook and 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:17.240 Twitter and Instagram. UM. One thing that struck me with 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:20.120 my children because obviously my husband I have raised them 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:23.079 similarly to how we were raised and how my grandmother 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:26.680 raised me. My children, first of all, we we forbid 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.160 them to have social media when they were young, but 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:32.679 they decided on their own, um, when they got older 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:34.600 and they could get it, that they wouldn't do it. 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.880 And my oldest said to me, Mom, I really don't 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.520 want to be on Facebook because all people ever do 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:44.040 is post about stuff they're doing, like they're bragging. And 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:46.640 that just always made me feel bad that I couldn't 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.240 do something that they were doing, and I didn't want 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:52.959 that coming into my spirit. And so my children on 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.600 their own decided that they didn't want to be on 0:13:55.640 --> 0:14:00.520 those platforms constantly being sort of one up by friends 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:02.600 and all the things that they do, because that's really 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.080 what most people are really doing and kind of just bragging, 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.520 look at my life, look at where I'm going. And 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:11.240 I think that has put extra pressure on folks to 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:13.920 um do some things with their money in their life 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.360 that they're not ready for. You know, I'm a big 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.360 component of a home ownership, but because of all these 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:21.600 things that you see, you should have a home, You 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.960 should have a home, and people jump out there sooner 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.680 than they're ready, or they have to take vacations when 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:30.960 they really need to be paying off their credit card debt. 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:35.680 And I don't know, I don't necessarily blame them because 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:40.200 they there is a masterful machine out there to get 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:45.240 you to feel unsatisfied with what you have. I think 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.520 I think you're spot on. I think we all feel 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:49.640 that to a certain degree. And I think social media 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.440 is one of the biggest culprits, and the Internet certainly 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:54.680 can help us feel connected in some ways. But there 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.400 are a lot of downsides to our constant connecting this 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:01.240 to Michelle, Before we dive into more about your new book, 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.200 What to Do with Your Money When Crisis hits, let's 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:07.040 touch on another crisis that some people find themselves in. 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.200 I was just like really kind of struck by um 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:14.080 reading about your work helping inmates, that that's just like 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.320 really important work, because I would imagine life is just 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:19.560 so difficult for men and women once they get released 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:22.800 from jails. Like, what's your work look like when yeah, 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:26.680 in that capacity? Yes. So I have a financial ministry 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:28.920 at my church and we meet once a month for 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:32.920 a couple of hours actually about three hours to be HONESTUM, 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:36.880 where I teach classes about personal finance, and it's part 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.000 of that my my church requires every ministry to have 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.120 an outreach, and I would have done it anyway, but 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:46.880 we chose to prison outreach. So my husband and I visit. 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:51.120 We actually when we could, UM pre pandemic, we would 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:55.440 go to correctional institutions and teach our classes and a 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:59.080 re entry program. So the programs that are set up 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:02.880 to help people who are about to be released from prison. UM, 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.880 how to you know, handle work? How to handle, you know, 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:09.960 personal crisis that happened. And then we do the financial component. 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.280 So we teach a series of classes to them. Um, 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:16.320 so both men and women, about how do you get 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:18.480 rid of a sense of entitlement, how do you make 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:21.920 better financial decisions? We teach class on credit, how to 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:26.200 rebuild your credit. Um, we teach a class on loving money. Like, 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:28.440 you've been in prison for ten years and you've had 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:30.600 you had kids before going in, and there's a lot 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:33.440 of pressure for once you get out to make up 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:36.600 for that time by buying people stuff and and doing 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.880 things that they can't afford just yet. Uh and so uh, 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:46.040 it's it's such a rewarding work. Um. I just I 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:50.320 can't even express how wonderful it is to go into 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.480 the institutions. And I know people are thinking, but didn't 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:55.960 they do a lot of bad stuff? Yeah, they did, 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.120 and they're paying the price for that and they're gonna 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:01.800 come out. And we want to make sure that when 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.959 they come out there as they are as whole as possible, 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:08.040 because if we don't have programs like this, if we 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.760 don't allow them to take classes and have some things 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:15.920 inside the institutions, then how are they are going to 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:21.119 rejoin society in a way that will be a contributor 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.119 to us. Otherwise they're gonna go back to doing the 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:27.159 things they did to get in prison in the first place. 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:31.080 And so this is a throwaway population. People don't want 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.320 to help them. They don't think that they deserve help, 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.560 but they are going to get out and and we 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:41.160 have to help them because they are. When we help them, 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.879 we help ourselves. And so when people criticize you know, 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:49.520 programs for for prisoners or you know, um uh, people 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:56.480 who are formally inconcerated, they're not sort of thinking, well, okay, altruistically, 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.320 but how about we just think if we don't help them, 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:01.960 they're gonna be criminals again. And that doesn't help you. 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:05.720 Um but I want to help them because I if 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:09.120 you hear a lot of their backstories, right, they come 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.399 from broken homes. They come from homes where they were 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:15.280 abused and you know, single family homes where there wasn't 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:17.639 enough money. And so those who are in there for 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:21.560 drugs selling often resorted to that to put food on 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:25.320 the table for their siblings. That doesn't excuse their behavior, 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:28.440 but it does explain it. And when you listen to 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:32.320 them and you work with them. It's very well warning 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:36.560 to know that you can change somebody's life and the trajectory, 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:39.520 and when you help them, you help their family and 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:43.720 their children, and you can break the legacy um that 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:45.920 has created that has been created in a lot of 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.960 their families. And so it is one of the proudest 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:52.160 things that I do that I just I feel like 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:56.919 it's just it's really good work. And when you know, 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:59.800 maybe we can't help a hundred percent of them, but 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:04.000 even if we just helped ten percent, that's a huge difference. 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:08.919 These are people to who made really bad choices, but 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.320 we still have to help them. Well, Michelle, we're glad 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:14.520 to hear that you're doing that. You're obviously providing hope 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:16.920 for those you know, those inmates who you're working with, 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:19.399 and uh, you know, you've also provided a lot of 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:21.480 hope for folks with your your new book, What to 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:23.280 Do with Your Money When Crisis Hits, And we're actually 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:25.080 going to dive into that. We're gonna talk about that 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:36.120 right after this break. Alright, we're back from the break. 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:39.760 We're talking with Michelle Singletary, one of the greatest personal 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:41.720 finance writers of all times. She definitely on the mount 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:46.399 Rushmore of Personal Finance, and Michelle, you just recently published 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:48.440 your new book, What to Do with Your Money When 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:52.080 Crisis Hits. Obviously, COVID produced a health crisis that led 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:55.080 to an economic and then a personal finance crisis for 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:58.560 so many folks. Like was was that that primary motivation 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:02.159 behind writing this book? It was so I wrote the 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:05.160 book with the idea that I didn't want to just 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:10.440 discuss the current crisis, the pandemic. Um. It's horrible. It 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:15.919 just caused such economic dismay for so many people. You know, 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:19.399 millions of people lost their jobs um in addition to 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:22.640 dealing with health issues, and that there's a cost to that. 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:26.920 But I wanted to just remind people that this crisis 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:30.520 will pass and there'll be another one, and I just 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:33.840 need you to be prepared for that next one. But 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:37.359 not out of fear, right, because I was thinking about 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:39.600 how do I explain this book so that people don't 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:42.680 get scared because you use the word crisis and already 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:45.800 your you know, anxiety levels go up, right. But I 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.840 thought about it in a sense of the people who 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:52.960 work in fire stations, the men and women who fight fires. 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:57.480 They have all their equipment ready at a moment's notice, right, 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:01.800 the hoses, the trucks, everything is positioned for when they 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:04.280 get that call for the fire, so they can be 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:07.040 in that truck and on the street and a moment's notice. 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:10.439 They hope that there will never be another fire. It 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:13.199 would not be prudent for them not to prepare for 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:16.760 that next fire. That's what this book is, Right, you 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:20.200 don't want it to happen. You just really hope it doesn't. 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:23.439 But you know that there's gonna be another financial fire. 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:26.840 Maybe you'll get a little scorched, or maybe things will 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:29.679 burn down in terms of you've lost your job, but 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:33.200 you've got to position yourself. And just like those firefighters, 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:36.960 sometimes they contain that fire and sometimes it's too overwhelming 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:40.800 and doesn't that is that exactly what happens in people's lives, 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:46.040 but it doesn't matter because they're still prepared no matter what. 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.320 And that's what this book is. It helps you to prepare, 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:52.400 not out of fear, but that you need to plan. 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:55.600 So that means that as you're going through this crisis, 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:57.560 and that's the first part of the book, it's like, Okay, 0:21:57.600 --> 0:21:59.440