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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Max,

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Speaker 1: and today we're talking crisis proofing your finances with Michelle Singletary. Yeah, Joel.

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Speaker 1: Michelle Singletary is an award winning personal finance columnist for

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Speaker 1: The Washington Post. She's also a frequent contributor to NPR

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Speaker 1: and She She regularly appears on CNN and has also

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Speaker 1: appeared on NBC's Today Show. On CBS is The Early

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Speaker 1: Show as well. And Michelle She She's written multiple books

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Speaker 1: on personal finance, and her latest book, What to Do

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Speaker 1: with Your Money When Crisis Hits, was just published last month.

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Speaker 1: Not only is it an incredible resource for folks who

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Speaker 1: find themselves in difficult times right now, but it's also

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Speaker 1: just chock full of practical money advice, uh that you

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Speaker 1: know that we believe everyone should be incorporating into their lives.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of the financial advice that your grandma would

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Speaker 1: approve of, right is that We're excited to get to

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Speaker 1: talk to Michelle Singletary today and learn more about our books.

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Speaker 1: So Michelle, thank you for joining us today. Oh, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for having me. Michelle. We are so

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Speaker 1: glad to have you. You are a personal finance icon,

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Speaker 1: I would say this, don't that sounds so old? No, No,

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Speaker 1: it's just because you've been doing it so well for

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Speaker 1: long enough, and you're not You're not old. You've got

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Speaker 1: plenty of years left in year to like establish that

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Speaker 1: personal finance yon status even more. But but hey, so Michelle,

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Speaker 1: the first question we ask anyone who comes on the show.

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Speaker 1: Matt and I we like craft beer something we're into,

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Speaker 1: and we drink a craft beer on most episodes. But

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Speaker 1: for us, it's something that we're willing to splurge on

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Speaker 1: in the here and now while we're also trying to

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Speaker 1: do a really good job of saving and investing for

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Speaker 1: the future. So, yeah, do you have something like that

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Speaker 1: that a splurge or craft beer equivalent? Okay, so this

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Speaker 1: is not going to go over, but my hobby is

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Speaker 1: saving money. So if you ask, like my husband and

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Speaker 1: my kids what I splurg on, they would just roll there.

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Speaker 1: I think probably multiple Scrabble dictionaries maybe the only thing.

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Speaker 1: I just don't have a lot of things that I

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Speaker 1: really want to be honest, I know it's terrible, but

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Speaker 1: I just think multiple scrabble dictionaries that's the I mean

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Speaker 1: to me, that sounds excravagant, like I would never buy that.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, you know, I think I get it. I

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Speaker 1: have a mini one and a big one, but I

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Speaker 1: M I just don't. You know, it's so interesting you

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Speaker 1: ask that, because when it comes time for holidays or

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Speaker 1: Christmas or my birthday or anniversary, my kids and my

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Speaker 1: husband like, go, what do you want? And I just

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Speaker 1: can't think of anything because I just I'm so comfortable

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Speaker 1: in my skin, and I'm comfortable with the things that

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Speaker 1: I do for people as enjoyment. And I know I

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Speaker 1: don't want it to sound so pious, but when you

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Speaker 1: don't come from a lot and you just spend your

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Speaker 1: whole life trying to create financial security, when you get secured,

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Speaker 1: that's sort of the gift itself. And I just I

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Speaker 1: don't want any jewelry or clothes, or a certain kind

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Speaker 1: of car, or even craft beer. I don't really drink,

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Speaker 1: but if I did, it would be craft beer. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I just don't want for anything that's awesome. I

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Speaker 1: think that that says a lot about who you are

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Speaker 1: as a person. And I mean, and I picked up

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Speaker 1: on something there too. You mentioned how just your ability

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Speaker 1: to help others, And I think oftentimes when you are

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Speaker 1: comfortable when you are in a position of just where

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Speaker 1: your finances are solid like that, oftentimes you can look

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Speaker 1: to other people and find ways to enrich their lives.

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Speaker 1: That's certainly something that you've done over the years. You've

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Speaker 1: been writing just great money content now for the Washington

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Speaker 1: was for years. You know, can you tell some of

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Speaker 1: like the early Michelle singletary story, what got you interested

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Speaker 1: in money in the first place, and then you know

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Speaker 1: what spurred you on to actually write about it? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I was. I came to live with my grandmother,

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Speaker 1: who we called Big Bama, when I was four, and

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Speaker 1: there were five of us who ended up she took in,

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Speaker 1: so my older sister who was eight, I was four.

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Speaker 1: As I said, I had a sister who was three,

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Speaker 1: and grand brothers who were just under two, and so, um,

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Speaker 1: we came to live with my grandmother. And my grandfather,

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Speaker 1: although a good guy, just had you know, he had

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Speaker 1: a drinking problem, so he didn't always come home. He

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Speaker 1: didn't always come home with his money, and so my

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Speaker 1: grandmother had to make do caring for us with the

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Speaker 1: money that she earned as a nursing assistant in a hospital.

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Speaker 1: And my grandmother also didn't take the welfare cash payments

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Speaker 1: because she was just so proud and she didn't want

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Speaker 1: them in the house and telling her what she couldn't

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Speaker 1: couldn't have, and so just her salary she raised us.

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Speaker 1: And I just I learned at her feet. I mean,

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Speaker 1: my grandmother if she held a penny Lincoln with screens

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Speaker 1: and she and the thing that I learned from her

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Speaker 1: is that she never apologized for what she couldn't buy us.

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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes when you grow up poor and your

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Speaker 1: parents can give you, they just feel always so sorry

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Speaker 1: about that, and you pick up on that as a child.

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Speaker 1: She never felt sorry that she couldn't buy his brand

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Speaker 1: name sneakers, or we didn't have a lot of clothes

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Speaker 1: and things like that, because she just said, listen, this

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Speaker 1: is all I can afford and we you need to

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Speaker 1: be satisfied with that, and I need to be satisfied

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Speaker 1: with that. And that's what I picked up for my grandmother.

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Speaker 1: So now fast forward, I'm working for the Baltimore Evening

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Speaker 1: Sun covering you know, comps and county government, and the

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Speaker 1: business editor, who's a female, uh woman, came up to me.

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Speaker 1: Uh it was a Patricia Fanning. Um. She said, you

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Speaker 1: know listen, I'm trying to rebuild the business section, and

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Speaker 1: I want young people, I want blocks, I want women. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, she just wanted to create a diverse staff

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Speaker 1: because back in the day, the Business section was all about,

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Speaker 1: you know, just business and investing, and it was just's

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Speaker 1: just be clear, it was just white guys, right, older

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Speaker 1: white guys, and oftentimes it was people towards the end

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Speaker 1: of their career. That's it was a comfortable place. You

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Speaker 1: didn't have to work weekend, you didn't have to work holidays,

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Speaker 1: and so it was kind of a place you when

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Speaker 1: you did good work, but you would kind of on

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Speaker 1: your way out to be tied. And when she asked me,

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Speaker 1: I thought trying to tell me something. She said, no, no, dear,

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Speaker 1: And so I went to work for the Business section.

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Speaker 1: And then because of my work for the Evening Sun,

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Speaker 1: I got noticed by the Post. They offered me a position.

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Speaker 1: I took it. And as I'm I'm very baltimorean, so

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Speaker 1: very down the earth, and I go to Washington News

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Speaker 1: or and where people are having these power lunches and

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Speaker 1: I'm bringing my bag lunch to work, eating at my desk,

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Speaker 1: and you were like, you want to go out to lunch.

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Speaker 1: It was like, you people are insane all this money

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Speaker 1: that y'all spending or eating and things. And I would

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Speaker 1: just talk a lot about saving and the things that

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Speaker 1: my grandmother taught me. And these people are looking at

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Speaker 1: me like where did they get this country bumpkin? And

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Speaker 1: then my business editor said, you know, you tell all

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Speaker 1: these stories about your grandmother and how you got you

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Speaker 1: were raised and money issues, you how to just write

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Speaker 1: a column about that. We've never had anything like that

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Speaker 1: in the business section, just a personal finance column about

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Speaker 1: what it's like to be raised, you know, African American

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Speaker 1: in Baltimore, any city. And I wrote that first column.

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Speaker 1: It was called Big Mama's Savings Grace I'll Never Forget.

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Speaker 1: And at that time, you know, we weren't into like

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Speaker 1: instant messaging and email, so people were actually sent letters.

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Speaker 1: They've got so many bags of letters that it was

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Speaker 1: just unheard of that somebody in the business section was

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Speaker 1: getting all these letters from all across the country. People

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Speaker 1: had picked up the column from different sites, and um,

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Speaker 1: they were just like, oh my gosh, you're writing for me.

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Speaker 1: And they understood that that I was a black female,

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Speaker 1: but they were like, yeah, I had a grandmother like that,

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Speaker 1: and she was Jewish or I had you know, a

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Speaker 1: pop up like that, and it just that's sort of

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Speaker 1: how I got into this space of personal finance, just

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Speaker 1: by living among my peers. The things that my grandmother

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Speaker 1: taught me about many. Wow, your grandma sounds like such

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Speaker 1: an incredible woman, And yeah, can you share maybe like

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Speaker 1: some of the I love what what you mentioned when

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Speaker 1: you're talking about like to not be ashamed of the

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Speaker 1: fact that you can't spend money on certain things. What

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Speaker 1: else did she teach you that you still live by

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Speaker 1: today or that it's still just incredibly important principles for you? Well,

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Speaker 1: oh so much. It's just like, um well, the one

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Speaker 1: thing she taught me that I have lived by. So

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Speaker 1: my grandmother taught me that the moment you get your

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Speaker 1: first paycheck, I don't care what is the what is

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Speaker 1: thought if you get it in cash or a paycheck,

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Speaker 1: you put aside a certain percentage of that check or

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Speaker 1: that you know to post every single time you get

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Speaker 1: a check. And I started working on it's about fourteen.

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Speaker 1: I was a mentor tutor, um so some other children. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and so from that very first check, she taught me

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Speaker 1: how to put somebody aside, whether it be ten percent

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Speaker 1: or twenty She's like, even if it's just the dollar,

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Speaker 1: every piece of money that crosses your palm, you shave

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Speaker 1: off her peace for saving. And so when I graduated

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Speaker 1: from University of Maryland College Park, and I went to

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Speaker 1: work full time for The Evening Sun. My first day,

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Speaker 1: I covered this huge fire in downtown Baltimore, and it

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Speaker 1: was just like you know, I was reading the midst

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Speaker 1: of it, and my story made the front page, of course,

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Speaker 1: and I called my grandmother and I said, oh my,

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Speaker 1: but my mom, I'm on the front page of the

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Speaker 1: Evening Sun. She says to me, did you go up

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Speaker 1: to hr and make sure that she took part of

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Speaker 1: your paycheck and put it in the credit union? I

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Speaker 1: said no, did I tell you all to click? And

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Speaker 1: I said that this woman hang up with me. I thought, okay,

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Speaker 1: it was must have been an accident. So I called

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Speaker 1: her right back. I said all the phone was got disconnected,

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Speaker 1: and I started to tell her about my big story,

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Speaker 1: and she says, did you go make sure that a

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Speaker 1: part of your paycheck has put away in the bank.

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Speaker 1: I said, now I had time to do that. Click up,

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Speaker 1: I said, I So I left my desk at that

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Speaker 1: moment that my big day, and I went up to

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Speaker 1: HR and I made sure that a portion of my

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Speaker 1: paycheck was put away. Then I went back to the

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Speaker 1: newsroom and I called her. She asked the same question.

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Speaker 1: I said, I sure did. Now. She said, now tell

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Speaker 1: me about that story. And I've lived by that everything

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Speaker 1: I get. If it's a book of ants, it's whatever

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Speaker 1: I put money aside right away. Always, I don't splurge

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Speaker 1: at all. And that was the key part of what

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Speaker 1: she taught me. And then I think secondary in my

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Speaker 1: my grandmother just always talked about not giving in to

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Speaker 1: peer pressure as a child, as a teenager, as a

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Speaker 1: young adult, as a you know, working professional. You just

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Speaker 1: do what you can afford and don't worry about what

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Speaker 1: anybody else says, and not just live my life like that.

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Speaker 1: You know, I work at the Washington Post. I've been

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Speaker 1: on you know, big news programs. I've been you know,

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Speaker 1: when when Oprah had her television show, and I remember

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Speaker 1: when I was going to be on the Oprah Show.

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Speaker 1: My nephew was like, oh, you're a big time now.

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Speaker 1: And that time I was driving some used car. He said,

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Speaker 1: you need to get a new car because this is

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Speaker 1: your life now, and I was just like, nope, just

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Speaker 1: driving this old car. In fact, I didn't even get

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Speaker 1: my hair done for open show. I was the same

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Speaker 1: outfit I had in one of my car in my closet.

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Speaker 1: Because I said, Oprah hasn't something anything that I woren before.

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Speaker 1: I did not make a big deal about it at all.

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Speaker 1: And that's just that's something that I learned from my grandmother.

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Speaker 1: That's that's awesome. I mean, so, yeah, you mentioned peer

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Speaker 1: pressure even from your nephew. You know he's trying to

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Speaker 1: pressure you and car. But you know, you've been in

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Speaker 1: the space for a while now, Like, what are some

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Speaker 1: of the different changes you've seen over the years, either

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Speaker 1: in the personal finance space or you know, even just

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Speaker 1: in our culture today. You know that you feel it

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Speaker 1: has made it harder to convince others to make smart

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Speaker 1: moves with their money, right, Like, obviously peer pressure has

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Speaker 1: been around for forever, but do you feel like that

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Speaker 1: you've seen certain aspects of our life just kind of

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Speaker 1: ramp up in the in the recent years. I think

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Speaker 1: with the advot of social media, uh, you can see

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Speaker 1: more of what people are doing twenty four seven, So

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Speaker 1: you know, We always had the television shows of rich

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Speaker 1: and famous shows and things like that that kind of

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Speaker 1: press you in commercials. But now you have it not

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Speaker 1: just on our television, but now we have it every

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Speaker 1: time we look at our phone, you know, every time

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Speaker 1: we sign onto work. You know, you have ads falling

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Speaker 1: you across platforms, and so there's more of a barrage

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Speaker 1: of what you have isn't good enough that you need

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Speaker 1: to update and look at this thing, look at these

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Speaker 1: cool people. Um, you have influencers who um or paid

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Speaker 1: to wear certain things and do certain things that make

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Speaker 1: you feel like you're missing out, even with Facebook and

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Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram. UM. One thing that struck me with

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Speaker 1: my children because obviously my husband I have raised them

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Speaker 1: similarly to how we were raised and how my grandmother

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Speaker 1: raised me. My children, first of all, we we forbid

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Speaker 1: them to have social media when they were young, but

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Speaker 1: they decided on their own, um, when they got older

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Speaker 1: and they could get it, that they wouldn't do it.

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Speaker 1: And my oldest said to me, Mom, I really don't

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Speaker 1: want to be on Facebook because all people ever do

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Speaker 1: is post about stuff they're doing, like they're bragging. And

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Speaker 1: that just always made me feel bad that I couldn't

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Speaker 1: do something that they were doing, and I didn't want

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Speaker 1: that coming into my spirit. And so my children on

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Speaker 1: their own decided that they didn't want to be on

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Speaker 1: those platforms constantly being sort of one up by friends

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Speaker 1: and all the things that they do, because that's really

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Speaker 1: what most people are really doing and kind of just bragging,

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Speaker 1: look at my life, look at where I'm going. And

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Speaker 1: I think that has put extra pressure on folks to

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Speaker 1: um do some things with their money in their life

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Speaker 1: that they're not ready for. You know, I'm a big

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Speaker 1: component of a home ownership, but because of all these

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Speaker 1: things that you see, you should have a home, You

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Speaker 1: should have a home, and people jump out there sooner

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Speaker 1: than they're ready, or they have to take vacations when

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Speaker 1: they really need to be paying off their credit card debt.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know, I don't necessarily blame them because

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Speaker 1: they there is a masterful machine out there to get

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Speaker 1: you to feel unsatisfied with what you have. I think

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Speaker 1: I think you're spot on. I think we all feel

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Speaker 1: that to a certain degree. And I think social media

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Speaker 1: is one of the biggest culprits, and the Internet certainly

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Speaker 1: can help us feel connected in some ways. But there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of downsides to our constant connecting this

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Speaker 1: to Michelle, Before we dive into more about your new book,

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Speaker 1: What to Do with Your Money When Crisis hits, let's

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Speaker 1: touch on another crisis that some people find themselves in.

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Speaker 1: I was just like really kind of struck by um

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Speaker 1: reading about your work helping inmates, that that's just like

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Speaker 1: really important work, because I would imagine life is just

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Speaker 1: so difficult for men and women once they get released

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Speaker 1: from jails. Like, what's your work look like when yeah,

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Speaker 1: in that capacity? Yes. So I have a financial ministry

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Speaker 1: at my church and we meet once a month for

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Speaker 1: a couple of hours actually about three hours to be HONESTUM,

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Speaker 1: where I teach classes about personal finance, and it's part

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Speaker 1: of that my my church requires every ministry to have

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Speaker 1: an outreach, and I would have done it anyway, but

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Speaker 1: we chose to prison outreach. So my husband and I visit.

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Speaker 1: We actually when we could, UM pre pandemic, we would

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Speaker 1: go to correctional institutions and teach our classes and a

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Speaker 1: re entry program. So the programs that are set up

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Speaker 1: to help people who are about to be released from prison. UM,

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Speaker 1: how to you know, handle work? How to handle, you know,

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Speaker 1: personal crisis that happened. And then we do the financial component.

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Speaker 1: So we teach a series of classes to them. Um,

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Speaker 1: so both men and women, about how do you get

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Speaker 1: rid of a sense of entitlement, how do you make

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Speaker 1: better financial decisions? We teach class on credit, how to

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Speaker 1: rebuild your credit. Um, we teach a class on loving money. Like,

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Speaker 1: you've been in prison for ten years and you've had

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Speaker 1: you had kids before going in, and there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of pressure for once you get out to make up

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Speaker 1: for that time by buying people stuff and and doing

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Speaker 1: things that they can't afford just yet. Uh and so uh,

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Speaker 1: it's it's such a rewarding work. Um. I just I

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Speaker 1: can't even express how wonderful it is to go into

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Speaker 1: the institutions. And I know people are thinking, but didn't

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Speaker 1: they do a lot of bad stuff? Yeah, they did,

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Speaker 1: and they're paying the price for that and they're gonna

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Speaker 1: come out. And we want to make sure that when

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Speaker 1: they come out there as they are as whole as possible,

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Speaker 1: because if we don't have programs like this, if we

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Speaker 1: don't allow them to take classes and have some things

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Speaker 1: inside the institutions, then how are they are going to

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Speaker 1: rejoin society in a way that will be a contributor

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Speaker 1: to us. Otherwise they're gonna go back to doing the

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Speaker 1: things they did to get in prison in the first place.

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Speaker 1: And so this is a throwaway population. People don't want

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Speaker 1: to help them. They don't think that they deserve help,

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Speaker 1: but they are going to get out and and we

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Speaker 1: have to help them because they are. When we help them,

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Speaker 1: we help ourselves. And so when people criticize you know,

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Speaker 1: programs for for prisoners or you know, um uh, people

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Speaker 1: who are formally inconcerated, they're not sort of thinking, well, okay, altruistically,

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Speaker 1: but how about we just think if we don't help them,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna be criminals again. And that doesn't help you.

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Speaker 1: Um but I want to help them because I if

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Speaker 1: you hear a lot of their backstories, right, they come

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Speaker 1: from broken homes. They come from homes where they were

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Speaker 1: abused and you know, single family homes where there wasn't

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Speaker 1: enough money. And so those who are in there for

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Speaker 1: drugs selling often resorted to that to put food on

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Speaker 1: the table for their siblings. That doesn't excuse their behavior,

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Speaker 1: but it does explain it. And when you listen to

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Speaker 1: them and you work with them. It's very well warning

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Speaker 1: to know that you can change somebody's life and the trajectory,

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Speaker 1: and when you help them, you help their family and

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Speaker 1: their children, and you can break the legacy um that

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Speaker 1: has created that has been created in a lot of

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Speaker 1: their families. And so it is one of the proudest

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Speaker 1: things that I do that I just I feel like

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Speaker 1: it's just it's really good work. And when you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe we can't help a hundred percent of them, but

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Speaker 1: even if we just helped ten percent, that's a huge difference.

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Speaker 1: These are people to who made really bad choices, but

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Speaker 1: we still have to help them. Well, Michelle, we're glad

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Speaker 1: to hear that you're doing that. You're obviously providing hope

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Speaker 1: for those you know, those inmates who you're working with,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, you've also provided a lot of

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Speaker 1: hope for folks with your your new book, What to

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Speaker 1: Do with Your Money When Crisis Hits, And we're actually

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Speaker 1: going to dive into that. We're gonna talk about that

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Speaker 1: right after this break. Alright, we're back from the break.

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Speaker 1: We're talking with Michelle Singletary, one of the greatest personal

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Speaker 1: finance writers of all times. She definitely on the mount

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Speaker 1: Rushmore of Personal Finance, and Michelle, you just recently published

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Speaker 1: your new book, What to Do with Your Money When

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Speaker 1: Crisis Hits. Obviously, COVID produced a health crisis that led

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Speaker 1: to an economic and then a personal finance crisis for

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Speaker 1: so many folks. Like was was that that primary motivation

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Speaker 1: behind writing this book? It was so I wrote the

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Speaker 1: book with the idea that I didn't want to just

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Speaker 1: discuss the current crisis, the pandemic. Um. It's horrible. It

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Speaker 1: just caused such economic dismay for so many people. You know,

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Speaker 1: millions of people lost their jobs um in addition to

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Speaker 1: dealing with health issues, and that there's a cost to that.

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Speaker 1: But I wanted to just remind people that this crisis

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Speaker 1: will pass and there'll be another one, and I just

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Speaker 1: need you to be prepared for that next one. But

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Speaker 1: not out of fear, right, because I was thinking about

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Speaker 1: how do I explain this book so that people don't

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Speaker 1: get scared because you use the word crisis and already

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Speaker 1: your you know, anxiety levels go up, right. But I

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Speaker 1: thought about it in a sense of the people who

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Speaker 1: work in fire stations, the men and women who fight fires.

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Speaker 1: They have all their equipment ready at a moment's notice, right,

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Speaker 1: the hoses, the trucks, everything is positioned for when they

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Speaker 1: get that call for the fire, so they can be

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Speaker 1: in that truck and on the street and a moment's notice.

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Speaker 1: They hope that there will never be another fire. It

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Speaker 1: would not be prudent for them not to prepare for

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Speaker 1: that next fire. That's what this book is, Right, you

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Speaker 1: don't want it to happen. You just really hope it doesn't.

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Speaker 1: But you know that there's gonna be another financial fire.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you'll get a little scorched, or maybe things will

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Speaker 1: burn down in terms of you've lost your job, but

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Speaker 1: you've got to position yourself. And just like those firefighters,

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Speaker 1: sometimes they contain that fire and sometimes it's too overwhelming

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Speaker 1: and doesn't that is that exactly what happens in people's lives,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't matter because they're still prepared no matter what.

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Speaker 1: And that's what this book is. It helps you to prepare,

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Speaker 1: not out of fear, but that you need to plan.

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Speaker 1: So that means that as you're going through this crisis,

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Speaker 1: and that's the first part of the book, it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't have a job, what do I have to pay?

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Speaker 1: And then as part of the book is like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I've come through this crisis. What do I need to

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Speaker 1: do to make to to make up for mistakes that

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Speaker 1: I made before that that last crisis? Can I do

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Speaker 1: some things to put myself in a better position? And

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Speaker 1: there are some things that you can do. And even

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Speaker 1: if you say, like a crazy person, which is what

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Speaker 1: I do, you still might not have enough. But she'll

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Speaker 1: still be able to weather that storm a little bit longer.

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Speaker 1: And that's kind of the focus of this book, that's right. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: let's le let's kind of talk about some of that

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Speaker 1: crisis section the show that you've got in your book.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's it's it can be hard, I think

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Speaker 1: for folks to know which obligation is to prioritize when

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Speaker 1: they're in that state of dire need, right, And so

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Speaker 1: you actually have a sort of a triage list that

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Speaker 1: you run through in the book, and so let's let's

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Speaker 1: talk about that, which which bills are important and then

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Speaker 1: which ones do you think should fall by the wayside

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Speaker 1: when those hard times hit. Yeah, I'd like to start

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Speaker 1: by even just explaining what triage means, just assuming that

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Speaker 1: everybody knows that, and so I not the idea um

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Speaker 1: from when you visit an emergency room, right and it's

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Speaker 1: not show you broke your ankle, and you're there and

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Speaker 1: you're waiting and you're like, oh my gosh, when are

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Speaker 1: they going to ever see me? And then someone comes

428
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: in and they take them right back and you're just like,

429
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I was here, what is wrong with

430
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 1: you all? But you don't know that that person is

431
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 1: having a heart attack? And so they when you have

432
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: a crowded emergency room or not a lot of staff,

433
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 1: they have to triasge the patients who are the most critical.

434
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 1: Let's handle them first. Does that mean that you are

435
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: not important or that we shouldn't get to you, But

436
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: we can't get to you right now. And that's how

437
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: you have to think of your bills when you've had

438
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 1: a disruption in your income or you've been laid off

439
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,640
Speaker 1: of furloughed um, and so you have to look at

440
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: the things that are the most necessary for you, food

441
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: on the table, roof over your head, covering utilities, you know,

442
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 1: paying that car note if you need that car to

443
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: go look for a job, and other bills need to

444
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: just be forgotten for right now. Now. I say that

445
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 1: saying I'm not saying that those bills should not be paid,

446
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: but the reality is, if you've lost your job and

447
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: you only have two hundred dollars, I don't need you

448
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 1: to pay that credit card bill. I need you to

449
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: put food on your table. And you have to be

450
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: okay with that. Because what happens often is and we

451
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 1: drill it. You guys do it, I do it. We

452
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 1: drill into everybody's head. Pay your bills one time, do

453
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,439
Speaker 1: whatever you can cut costs, you know, cover that stuff,

454
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 1: get going, get going, and so that when a crisis happens,

455
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: people try to pay a little bit on everything because

456
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: they don't want to be that person that's reckless. But

457
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 1: this is not being reckless. This is being a realist. Right.

458
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: You only have so much money, and so you have

459
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 1: to treat off your bills, and you can't let those

460
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 1: less critical bills make you put them ahead of other things.

461
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: So if you got a limited amount, talk to your landlord.

462
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 1: Pay what you can, but you gotta you gotta feed

463
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: your kids tonight, and that's what you focus on. And later,

464
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 1: when you get employed again and back on your feet,

465
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,719
Speaker 1: I can I can help you build your credit back up.

466
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 1: I can tell you how to do that. It doesn't

467
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: take as long as you think it does. Uh, let's

468
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,199
Speaker 1: just focus on the emergency stuff right now. Yeah. One

469
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: of the things you talk really well about in your

470
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: book too, is what it looks like to turn to

471
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: friends or family for money. That can get really, really tricky. So, like,

472
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: let's say you are in a hard financial spot, Like

473
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: how do you navigate asking other people to help you out?

474
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: You just have to ask them, you know. Oftentimes the

475
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 1: first thing you want to do is like, can you

476
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,439
Speaker 1: can you give me a loan, because you feel like

477
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: people will be more receptive to that than the idea

478
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: that you're going to give them their money back. But

479
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: if you've lost your job and you've had some disruption

480
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: in your income and you've just fallen financially, you don't

481
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 1: really know when you can pay that loan back, and

482
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: and making promises that you can't keep is what ruins

483
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: that relationship. So I'd rather you say, listen, you know,

484
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: I lost my job, we had this huge pandemic. I

485
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: don't know when I can pay you back. So rather

486
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 1: than ask for own and set up a situation where

487
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: you're gonna be expecting something back that I'm not sure

488
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 1: when I can pay. If you can't afford it, can

489
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 1: you give me a financial gift to help me out

490
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: right now? Could you pay my utility bill for a

491
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 1: month or two for me, if that's possible. I need

492
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 1: help with my rent this month. If you cover it

493
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: this month, I think I can get enough to pay

494
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: it next month. Um My kids need some things for

495
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: the summer for summer camp. Do you think you could

496
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: help me pay for summer camp? And it? These are

497
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: hard conversations because we are very proud people and you

498
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: don't want to ask that way, but I think that's

499
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: the best way. And if you're on the receiving and

500
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: of that, because many of your listeners will be on

501
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: the receiving end, I need you to open up your

502
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: wallet if you can't afford it, I need you to

503
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: give out of your extra So don't give somebody your

504
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 1: rent money. But I need you to hear them and

505
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: if they even if they ask for a loan, you say,

506
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: no way giving you this money when my husband and

507
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,719
Speaker 1: I don't lend money to anyone. So and we also

508
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: look around for people who need help even though they

509
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: are too proud to ask. This happened to us um

510
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: a relative I lost her job in the food service industry,

511
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: and she was talking to another relative. She would never

512
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: tell us, and so we heard the story and I

513
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: called her up and I asked her how much of

514
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: her it was. And I called her rental office and

515
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: we arranged to pay her rent for a couple of months.

516
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: And she said, oh, thank you. She's so grateful. She's like,

517
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pay you back, and I stopped her right there.

518
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: I said, absolutely not. You will not pay us back.

519
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: This is a gift and you do not ever have

520
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 1: to think about it again. We don't bring it up

521
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: to her, We don't mention it nothing. This was something

522
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 1: we did for her, and never when we expect it back.

523
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: And you know, those people in your lives who could

524
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 1: need help. Maybe it was maybe your very restaurant and

525
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: you go to and you know the staff is only

526
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 1: working halftime, and there's a waitress or there's somebody who

527
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: you talk to all the time. You know, it's just hey,

528
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: how you doing, how's it going? Is are you getting

529
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: two hours? And they go no, well, you know, and

530
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: then when you leave that tip, you leave enough that

531
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: you know can help pay their Yeah, that's ridiculously cool.

532
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 1: And I mean, yeah, I just I love your attitude

533
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: towards that too, because it puts somebody in a position

534
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: where yeah, they're they're far more comfortable taking that money,

535
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: and it's and you're saving that relationship when somewhereas that

536
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: obligation can cause someone to avoid maybe interacting with you, like, um,

537
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: if you if you owe the loan there, you've put

538
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: them at ease, which is really cool, right, Yeah, And Michelle,

539
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: another situation too, if someone has lost their job, they

540
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: might be tempted to draw on some like say some

541
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: retirement funds. Uh. And so we would love to hear

542
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: your thoughts, you know, on taking money, say out of

543
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: a four one k, taking some money out of a

544
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: roth ira a for for some of those difficult financial time. Yeah,

545
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: it should be the last resort, but it is a

546
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: pot that you might have to tap. And I think

547
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: it would be arrogant for those of us who didn't

548
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: lose their jobs, who have out of court savings, it's

549
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: say absolutely, don't ever touch that money. Well, the reality

550
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: is it's either touch that money or you can't pay

551
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: your It's either touch that money or you can't put

552
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: food on the table. I'm okay with you touching that money.

553
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: It's not ideal, but if you have to, and then

554
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: if you do, don't take out more than you need,

555
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: so you can take it out over time as the

556
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: need arises. So if if you've been laid off and

557
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: you're not sure, you know, take out off for it,

558
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: like maybe two months, but not like six months. And

559
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: if obviously if you're under fifty nine and a half

560
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: when you take out the money, this is gonna be

561
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: so hard for people. At least, please make sure you

562
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: put aside the tax obligation for that money. So if

563
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: you're under fifty nine and half, there's a temper cent

564
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: early primacy um and then obviously you have to pay

565
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: income tax on that money. So you want to get

566
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: some advice from the plan administrator and they can give

567
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: you some guidelines about how much you probably need to

568
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: set aside. And then you really really need to set

569
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: that money aside. I don't want you to be in

570
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: trouble with the I R S when it comes time

571
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: to pay that money back. Yeah, that would be really

572
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: really bad situation, like you're putting yourself in another crisis.

573
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: Then essentially, when when that hits and Michelle, in your book,

574
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: there's so much good just like regular personal finance information too,

575
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: And we want to get to kind of some questions

576
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: that we have for you on that, including like one

577
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: thing about discounts making us dumb. Those are my favorite

578
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: lines in the book. We'll talk about that right after

579
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: this break. Al Right, we are back and we're talking

580
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: with Michelle Singletary. We're talking about crisis proofing your finances

581
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: and Michelle, you know, managing our money. Well, that's one

582
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: of the steps that we can take to avoid getting

583
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: into a fine actual crisis to begin with, right. Uh.

584
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: And budgets they're an important tool. Uh. And you say

585
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: in your book that if you like being broke, then

586
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: don't budget. Uh. But uh yeah, so it's just really important.

587
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:14,959
Speaker 1: Something that stood out to us though you don't give

588
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: a whole lot of credence to the different budgeting apps,

589
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: you know, like going with the latest new software or

590
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: this new program. Why is that? Can you explain that

591
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: son to our listeners? You know, people are always asking me, Okay,

592
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: so what apps should I use to manage my money?

593
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: And I just got I don't know, pens on paper

594
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: that's what I use, and I get it people want

595
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: that cool tool and they are cool, right. I you know,

596
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: I have a couple that I just use out of

597
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: fun um. But here's the thing. This is why I

598
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: tell people all the time, it is not that app

599
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: that is going to make you manage your money better.

600
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: By the time people want to use an app, they

601
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: have become motivated to get their financial life together. And

602
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: and this is an example that I use, like, and

603
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people out there are gonna

604
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: be in this position. So you buy that treadmill or

605
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: the exercise bike because you ride it every day, exactly right,

606
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: And what doesn't end up happening to be a close hanger? Right,

607
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: And so that that treadmill and that bike can absolutely

608
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: help you get in shape. But if you don't have

609
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: the motivation to use it, it's nothing but a clothes hanger.

610
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: And that's what the budget apps are, right. And so

611
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: you would need to first most importantly, say I want

612
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: to have control over my money. And then once you

613
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: say that, it doesn't matter what app you use. Like

614
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: I said, I'm sitting talking to you right now, and

615
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: in front of me is a little red notebook that

616
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: I got at the dollar store, and I write down

617
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: my financial stuff and things of financial stuff I have

618
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: to do, Like right now, I've got to move some

619
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: money into a fund um and my my self account.

620
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: And I wrote down, okay, call the company. And I'm

621
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: not using no apps. I'm not on the Excel, I'm

622
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: not on anything. I'm not saying I don't use those

623
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: tools and not or north should you if you line

624
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: one that you like. But that is not what makes

625
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,239
Speaker 1: you a good money manager. It is it starts with

626
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: your mind and your mind set. That is the tool

627
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: that will help bring you prosperity. Those other things are bonus.

628
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: They're helpful. Um. And so I don't really care what

629
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 1: you use, right because you see all these ads and

630
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: this is like grant. These things have slice bread. It

631
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: is for the people who are already motivated. But the

632
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: people that I work with, you're not. Let me put

633
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: it this way. You're not broke because you don't use

634
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: a cool app. Ye, You're broke because you're not budgeting

635
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: in general. It's all right. So let's get to one

636
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: of my favorite lines in the whole book. It just

637
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: stuck out to me. He said, discounts make us dumb.

638
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: What do you mean by that? Because I like a

639
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: deal from time to time, Michell, I'm not gonna lie.

640
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that I don't. I like I use

641
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: coupons too. Um. But one of my favorite books called

642
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: Dollars and Cents. I love this book and I actually

643
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: reference it to it in my book, um, and it

644
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: was talks about behavioral economics and how we are so

645
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: concentrating on a discount that we don't realize that they

646
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: make us dumb, that they use the lore of a

647
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: discount to get you to spend and spend more than

648
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: you intend to spend. Let me give an example. So

649
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: you go into the store. You're only gonna go get

650
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 1: one pair of shoes. Your kid needs a pair of sneakers.

651
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: They only need one pair of sneakers. They only got

652
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: one pair of fee. And you go to the store

653
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: and that says, well, if you buy this pair, you

654
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: can get this pair for half off. And you're thinking

655
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: that's a deal, but is it. You only went in

656
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: it to get one pair of shoes. Now you have spent,

657
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: even at what might be considered fifty off, more money

658
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: than you intended to go into that store. And that

659
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: makes you, I hate to say it, dumb, right because

660
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: they are using you, and you know darn well that

661
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: they have priced both those shoes still account for that discount,

662
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 1: you know. And then we concentrate on that so much

663
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: that we you know, um, like the reward call credit

664
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: card reward cards, people like just they're so proud of

665
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 1: all those award points that they've accumulated. Now, how exactly

666
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: did you accumulate those award points? You spend money on

667
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: a credit card, right, You've got to spend a certain

668
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: amount of many right, um. And and study show that

669
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: when you use plastic, you tend to spend more than

670
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: you use cash. So they've built all of that into

671
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: all of these things that you think and you're getting

672
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: a discount on. And so it doesn't mean that you

673
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: shouldn't take advantage of discounts, but just understand that that

674
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: there is a method to their madness to get you

675
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: to overspend. That's right. Yeah, they're playing chess while you're

676
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 1: playing checkers. You're looking at that deal, but they've already

677
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: two moves ahead of you, two in three moves ahead,

678
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 1: if you're right, you know what I mean? Even grosser

679
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 1: store keepons people clipping, and you know, and you're buying

680
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: all this stuff, and you know any of those keepons

681
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: if you know you have to buy more to get

682
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 1: that fifty cents off, or they had ten four dollar

683
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: or ten for ten dollars, but you only need one can.

684
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 1: So you in your head you're thinking, I gotta buy

685
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,439
Speaker 1: those ten to get that discount, but you don't right um.

686
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: And sometimes I even have to stop myself. It's like,

687
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: go three cans for X, and I said, well, I'm

688
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,359
Speaker 1: making a stew for example, but I really don't need

689
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: those extra two cans right now. And if you really

690
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 1: look at says and then they do divide it up

691
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: by that three, so you're not over paying if you

692
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 1: buy just a one um. And so you just have

693
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: to continually talk yourself to do I really need this

694
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: um even if it's less money. I'm still spending money

695
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: on something that I never intended to spend it on.

696
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, So, Michelle, let's let's talk about a

697
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: relationship to with debt. You wrote an article at one

698
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,439
Speaker 1: point that was titled if you're in debt, you don't

699
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: deserve a vacation. Readers didn't really like that one. I'm

700
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: sure you have to push back on that one. But

701
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: your thoughts on debts. You know, ass treating yourself when

702
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 1: you've still got some debt lingering in your life. Yeah,

703
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: that I knew I was being provocative. I did not

704
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 1: know that they were gonna put a hit. Oh my goodness,

705
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 1: you would have thought I'd slapped somebody's baby. I mean,

706
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,720
Speaker 1: and I was trying to be provocative. I'm not gonna

707
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: lie I was, because what happens is I hear people

708
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: say all the time when I deserve this, and I

709
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: work hard, and I deserve this, And I'm sure you

710
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: do work hard, but you don't deserve to be in

711
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,919
Speaker 1: debt and you don't deserve that vacation that you can't

712
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: afford when you've got credit card debt that you need

713
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 1: to pay off. Or people will say, I say for

714
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: my wedding, but you have ten thousand dollars in credit

715
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: card debt. So that doesn't sort of mesh with me.

716
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 1: And so I like to joke that if that was

717
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 1: a person, I'd slap it. I hate that. I hate

718
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: that it limits your choices. And so what I was

719
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: trying to tell people is that you can have a

720
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: vacation when I'll spending money, um that you don't have

721
00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: that you need to put towards reducing your debt. And

722
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: this goes back to you know, when we talked about

723
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 1: the things that my grandmother taught me about being satisfied

724
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: where I am, and so we have in this country

725
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: talk told people that a proper vacation is that you've

726
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: got to go somewhere, you gotta spend money, you gotta

727
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 1: do this, when in fact a vacation really ought to

728
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: be I just need time away from work. I need

729
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: to just be peaceful. I could walk through my neighborhood,

730
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 1: I could sit on my porche. I could you know,

731
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: call friends. I could spend time playing games with my family. Um,

732
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: the most important thing you need to do is to

733
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: get your finances together so that when the next crisis hits,

734
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: you can weather that storm. And so if you have

735
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: a lot of credit card debt, I'd rather you spend

736
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,399
Speaker 1: that time taking that money that you would have used

737
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: on a paid vacation and bring that debt down. And

738
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 1: I know that it might mean that you don't take

739
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 1: a vacation for a couple of years, but it's only

740
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: for a season, uh, And that during that time that

741
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: you get rid of that debt. By the time you

742
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: do have the money, need the cash, to freedom to

743
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: take the vacation. It will be a sweet time because

744
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: you don't come back to that debt. How how much

745
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: nicer to take that vacation knowing that you actually have

746
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: the money in the bank to pay for it. Right,

747
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And at what point

748
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: in the book, Michelle, you say debt is debt and

749
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: you don't distinguish really between good debt and bad debt.

750
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: So I find that interesting because there's definitely you know,

751
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: some people, especially Matt and I is real estate investors.

752
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: We have a slightly different take on debt where mom

753
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: and popularistate investors, not noth these like big time guys

754
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,240
Speaker 1: with hundreds of units or anything like that. But debt

755
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: debt is different in the real estate space, I think

756
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: um at times. So yeah, well, what's your take on debt?

757
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: When you say debt is debt, do you distinguish in

758
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: any way between certain kinds of debt that maybe makes

759
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: sense for individuals at a certain point in their life,

760
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: or or not at all? You know, I love you guys, right,

761
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: talk about you're welcome, You're welcome to throw us under

762
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: the bus. Too if you want. So here's here's my

763
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: strategy about talking about debt. First of all, it is

764
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,399
Speaker 1: there is no such thing as good that and bad dad,

765
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: because we're scribing adjectives to something that nobody likes. I mean,

766
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 1: you you use that to get some things that you want,

767
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 1: like a home, but you don't like it. You don't

768
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: feel good about it. You know, when you write that check,

769
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: you are not skipping through the bed to the mailbox

770
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: going I love that I have to pay this interest

771
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: on this money. Isn't this glorious? No? You know. And

772
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: on the other side, you know, bad dad. What is that?

773
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: It's still just debt. And what I try to get

774
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: people to think about it in a sense of debt

775
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: limits your choices, particularly doing a crisis. Let's just look

776
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: at the pandemic and landlords for example. And so I

777
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 1: tell you I talked to a landlord from North Carolina,

778
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: sweet guy. I did a column on it, and he

779
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: has multiple properties, you know, small um, you know, not

780
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: some big conglomerate. But he said that I told myself

781
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,879
Speaker 1: that I wanted property and that I was gonna make

782
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: extra payments so that I could pay the properties off

783
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: as quick as possible, so that in the times of trouble,

784
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: I don't have to press my tenants because they're all

785
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,439
Speaker 1: good people. He chooses his tenants wisely, and he said,

786
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: when they are at their lowest, I don't want to

787
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: be that landlord that says, give me my money or

788
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: get out. And he was able to give his tenants

789
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: breathing room at the height of the pandemic because he

790
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 1: didn't have loans on those properties, and lots of landlords

791
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,760
Speaker 1: had properties that they need every dollar of that rent

792
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,280
Speaker 1: or they're gonna go under pretty quickly. And and that's

793
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: that's not a wise use of debt. So I just

794
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 1: try to get people to get out of debt so

795
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: that that when that next crisis happens, and it will,

796
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:59,399
Speaker 1: you as a landlord, could be more magnanimous to your

797
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: tenants because you don't have to worry about the mortgage

798
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: you have to pay. Now, that's not to say that

799
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: you you know, you may not be there yet, but

800
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: I hope that you you strive to be there so

801
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: that you don't have all that financial pressure. You have

802
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: breathing room, so that you can be humane during a

803
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 1: time that was inhumane. Man, Michelle, your generosity of spirit.

804
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: It just comes through um in in this conversation. It's

805
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: been an absolute pleasure to chat with you. So much

806
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: wisdom and and just so much humor. So thank you

807
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Like where where can our

808
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: listeners find out more about you and uh in your

809
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: new book? Well, first of all, I love you. Follow

810
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: me on Twitter. It's at singletary. M That's the platform

811
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: I like the most. Sign up for the Washington Post

812
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 1: and get my columns and newsletter. I have a weekly

813
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: personal finance newsletter. Of course, there's a book where you

814
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 1: can get it all major bookstores, independent bookstores and hey, listen,

815
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: if you can't afford the book, get it from the

816
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 1: library to right completely okay, don't tell my publisher, but

817
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: I'm completely okay with that, right. I'd rather you have

818
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,439
Speaker 1: the knowledge to worry about the fact that you can't

819
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: buy the book. Yes, I love that, Michelle. This has

820
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: been a joy talking with you today. We appreciate you

821
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: just yeah, giving us some of your time. This has

822
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 1: been a lot of fun. Thanks again, thank you for

823
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: having me all Right, Matt, what a great conversation with Michelle.

824
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: Super awesome human being and just like super knowledgeable when

825
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 1: it comes to personal finances. Also, I can't wait till

826
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,919
Speaker 1: they actually get that mount rushmore personal finance up because

827
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: she's definitely gonna be and we'll deserve to. Well, there's yeah,

828
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: and there's a difference to between being you would you

829
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 1: said iconic, right, you want to be iconic. You don't

830
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: want to be like a legend, because when you're a legend,

831
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 1: that that means you know your your your best years

832
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: are behind you. She's not a legend, she's iconic. She

833
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: is she'll be a legend thirty years from now. She's

834
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,280
Speaker 1: at the top of her game right now though, exactly.

835
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 1: All right, So yeah, what was your big takeaway from

836
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: that conversation? Okay, well, so I've heard this before when

837
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: it comes to loaning money to friends or family to

838
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 1: to try not to actually lend them that money, and

839
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: if possible, just give them that money. Hopefully you are

840
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 1: in a financial position where things are solid in your life,

841
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: and by giving them that money, right, by gifting it,

842
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: there's a much better chance of you maintaining that relationship

843
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 1: right without things getting weird, without the dynamics suddenly shifting,

844
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 1: because all of a sudden, you know they're thinking that

845
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: you're about to ask them, They're like, hey, are you

846
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: able to pay back yet? So they're not coming over

847
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: for dinner. Even if you're not thinking that, uh they

848
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,879
Speaker 1: that might be on their mind. But then you might

849
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: be thinking things right because you might see them spend

850
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 1: some money, or you might hear them maybe going on

851
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 1: a small trip or something, and you're thinking to yourself,

852
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,240
Speaker 1: wait a minute, like you you still owe me money.

853
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: And so I've heard that you can't afford to go

854
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: to Tahiti. Yeah, oh of course not. Yeah, uh so

855
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 1: I've heard that before. But one of the things you

856
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 1: said that really stood out to me was to actively

857
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: look for individuals to help who you're pretty sure might

858
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: be hurting when it comes to their finances, right. I mean,

859
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: we've got a lot of relationships in our lives. We

860
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: know what folks are up to, we know uh, you know,

861
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: we're familiar with the different industries that have suffered recently,

862
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,879
Speaker 1: and it aside from pandemics and massive crises like this,

863
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: we need to still be aware of what it is

864
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: that individuals are going through on a personal level. And

865
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 1: so I just love that Michelle and her husband are

866
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 1: actively searching for individuals they can help. They've made this

867
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: a priority in their life as to you know, what

868
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: it is that they're doing with their money. And with

869
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: someone like Michelle who doesn't have a splurge, I mean

870
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 1: I would even venture to say that this is something

871
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: that might even be considered a splurge and admirable splurs yes,

872
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of folks would say, oh,

873
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I can't believe you do that. But

874
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: for her, in reality, that's something that is able to

875
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 1: bring her a lot of joy as well. Yeah, all right,

876
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: my big takeaway I will say from this conversation a

877
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: lot of good stuff. But when we talked about why

878
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: she wrote the book, COVID was certainly a part of that.

879
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 1: But you also never know when a crisis is going

880
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: to hit. And and one of the terms that she

881
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: used in the book that she didn't actually bring up

882
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: on this episode, but she said that you need to

883
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: manage your personal finances like you're in the middle of

884
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 1: a perpetual recession. And I'm like, that's exactly how I

885
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: approach my finances. It actually made me think of when

886
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: we talked to Morgan Household and he basically said invest

887
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: like an optimist, but save like a pessimist, and I

888
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: think that's the exact same approach, basically living like you're

889
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: in a perpetual recession or saving like your pessimistic about

890
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 1: the future. We should all be kind of taking that

891
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: route um with with our finances, investing like optimists, saving

892
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: like pessimists, not sure what the future holds, but making

893
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,800
Speaker 1: sure that we're prepared for the event of a potential crisis.

894
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: And you know what, they don't tell us ahead of

895
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: time that they're coming um there. They usually kind of

896
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 1: come out of nowhere. You know. COVID was definitely one

897
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: of those things that came out of nowhere. The recession

898
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 1: of two thousand eight, You know that that was something

899
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: that came out of nowhere. Most people weren't predicting that

900
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 1: it was gonna happen. I could point to so many

901
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: different crises that have happened over the years that people

902
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: were not predicting. And then there's just like the general

903
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: things that happened to individuals, you know, in everyday life too,

904
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 1: the crises of a family member getting sick, are you

905
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: getting sick? And they're just impossible to predict. And so

906
00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: you need to live life, manage your personal finances, like

907
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: you are in that perpetual recession, and if you do,

908
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: you will be prepared when the next crisis. I mean,

909
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 1: and you're saying not to be stressed the whole time, right,

910
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: because typically from an emotional standpoint, when you're in a crisis,

911
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: you feel the squeeze a little bit, like things aren't

912
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 1: going great and you want things to kind of go

913
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: back to normal. But it's about taking the actions to

914
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 1: make sure that you don't arrive to that point emotionally

915
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: when there truly is a crisis. So yeah, man, I'm

916
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: glad you you pointed that out. Uh. And actually, dude,

917
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: so I just said, squeeze when you're sort of a crisis.

918
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead, shift gears. Let's get back to the

919
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: beer that you and I enjoyed on this episode, which

920
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: was called Squeezebox. Uh. This is a beer by Urban Artifact,

921
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: and this was a strawberry Midwestern fruit tart that was

922
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 1: donated to the show by Sandra. Sandra, thank you so

923
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 1: much for sending this one hour away. Joel, what were

924
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 1: your thoughts on this one? Dude? This was awesome. This

925
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: is a tart, funky strawberry beer. It had kind of

926
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: like it was kind of thick, so I had some

927
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 1: milkshake type qualities to it. But I personally love a

928
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: beer that brings the funk, and this one brought a

929
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: lot of funk. It wasn't us straight up fruit too

930
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: sweet or anything like that. The funkiness plus the acidity

931
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: plus the fruit they bounced out really really well, man,

932
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 1: I really dug it. Yeah, well you mentioned milkshake. There's

933
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 1: actually some a good amount of vanilla bean in this

934
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 1: beer as well, so that probably adds to the certain

935
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: smoothness of it. Right, Let's see, that's what I was feeling.

936
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: My palette is that brilliant, so tuned in. So, dude,

937
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,439
Speaker 1: I wanted to point out one thing on the can here. Uh,

938
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 1: they tell you the acidity of the beer. I have

939
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 1: never seen a brewery that put the pH of the

940
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: beer on here. And so this one is a three

941
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 1: point four seven, which is so when when it comes

942
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 1: to acids and bases, like, the lower the number, the

943
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: higher it is in a cidity. Right, And so I'm

944
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: kind of a data I'm a I'm a numbers nerd,

945
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: and so for me to see that number on this can,

946
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: like it provides a frame of reference. And now any

947
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 1: other beer I have that actually does happen to have

948
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 1: the acidity level on there, I'm gonna know where it

949
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: stacks up against this one. I think that's really cool, man.

950
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 1: I've never seen that before, and I think more breweries

951
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: should be doing that. There you go. Yeah, I'm done

952
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 1: with more. The more info. It's interesting info, something I

953
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 1: never would have. Let's get scientific about it. Expected my

954
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 1: beer can. But that's really cool. And yeah, big thanks

955
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 1: to Sandra for sending us this beer. But that's gonna

956
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: do it for today's episode. If you want to know

957
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 1: where you can get Michelle's book, well, she mentioned the library,

958
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 1: but you can also buy it if you want. We'll

959
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: link to that one in our show notes up on

960
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,359
Speaker 1: our website at how to money dot com. That's right, man.

961
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 1: So that's gonna be it for this episode, Joel. Until

962
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: next time, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,