WEBVTT - What's Behind the Anti-Syrian Violence in Turkey? 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:05.439 Al Zone Media. 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:09.360 All Right, hello, welcome to the podcast it could happen here. 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:14.520 Podcasts for Me and Cheren talk about vegetables or terrible things, 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:17.600 depending on the week. It's me, it's uine and today 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:20.920 it's a terrible thing. It's not a vegetable or a 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:23.880 sa animal. How are you, Cherene, how are you doing? 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:27.000 I'm good. That's honestly a great premise just for a 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.920 show in general, Like we talk about either food or 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:31.720 something terrible. 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:34.920 Yeah, like and you never know, you know, just yeah, 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:36.760 it's just in your playlist. And then is it a 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:38.600 fucking artichoke? Is it genocide? 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:39.440 You don't know? 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:40.480 You have to find out. 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:42.720 Yeah, the only way is by listening. 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:45.640 Yeah, but hi, I'm good, Thanks for having me. 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:47.520 Good. I'm glad to hear it, Shreen. 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:50.600 So, what I wanted to talk about today is what 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:52.479 is happening in Turkey? 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:54.800 Why are they like this? What is going on? 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:59.440 Specifically? I want to talk about some of these attacks 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.640 on Syria and refugees in Turkey. The people may have seen, 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:06.039 they may not have seen. I see them in my timeline, 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:08.640 but maybe that's because of the people I follow. I 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:13.959 think to start off with to understand what's happening in Turkey. 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.319 You have to understand the relations between Turkey and Syria. 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.560 Since the Civil War began in Syria, which is more 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:24.160 than a decade ago now, thirteen odd years ago. So 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:27.720 from the start of the war, Turkey has backed Antio 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.200 sad factions, right, so those are the rebels in Syria. 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:32.520 This is a big change. 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:35.720 In two thousand and eight, A Sadden Herd again's family 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:36.880 went on holiday together. 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:38.520 Really yeah. 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:41.040 Yeah, they went into a southern Turkey and a little 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:42.280 little beach holiday together. 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:43.959 Disturbing. 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:47.680 Yeah, yeah, what a time. Yeah, just to do to 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:49.320 racking by the beach. 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:52.240 But unfortunately they're no longer holiday and together. They might 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:55.160 be holding again soon as we'll see. 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:56.440 Yeah, that's what it sounds like. 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:01.960 Yeah, they are becoming tight again, and again referenced their 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:06.200 family holiday in his most recent comments on really yeah, 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:08.400 it's like our relations have been familial. 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:09.399 I like that at all. 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:13.160 Yeah, yeah, you know what'd be going on holiday with 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:16.040 Marshal Lasad just as a moral principle. 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:18.919 I think it's just crazy to be because you're right 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:22.639 they I feel like we're very open about supporting the 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:26.960 anti Assad forces and so to be like suddenly, why 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.120 can't we have diplomatic friendliness, Like, come on, it's just 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:31.919 like the weirdest plot to us to. 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:33.920 Be Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:36.880 comes from anti migrant sentiment in Turkey, which I want 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:40.120 to get into. I think it's so like we are 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:44.040 witnessing this global crackdown on migration, on refugees. We see 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:46.600 it in Europe, we see it here at southern border, 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.760 we see it here in Turkey, We're seeing it in 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:51.119 North Africa. We're seeing it all over. 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:53.799 So this is hasn't always been the case. 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:56.000 At the start of the war, Turkey thrope and it's 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:59.919 bordereds to to Syrian refugees, right, They built camps to houses. 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.919 They were strong backers of the revolution. They spent forty 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:08.280 million dollars carrying to their refugees. The Nationally Intelligence Organization, 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:11.880 the MIT, actually trained parts of the FSA, the Free 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:15.679 Syrian Army, and then later they brought together the s NA. 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:19.560 There will be many acronyms, right, like every civil war 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:21.880 loves a three letter acronym, and the Syrian war is 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:22.400 no different. 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:24.560 But they were really open, they were really public about 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:29.080 being like we welcomed the refugees. I remember that was like, 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.160 I don't know, as a Syrian, I was like, oh, 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:34.760 that's nice. 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:37.520 It was nice, nice thing to do. 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:39.839 Like I mean, like at the time, no one gave 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:41.600 a shit for the most part, so to have like 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:44.600 a country out loud be like we welcome the refugees, 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:48.600 come over here will help. And now they have the 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:52.360 largest population of Syrian refugees like in the world. I 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:54.760 don't know if you're gonna mention this coming up, but 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:57.480 I feel like the only thing that changed, not the 0:03:57.480 --> 0:03:59.080 only thing, one of the only things. The main thing 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.240 that changed is that no one in Turkey thought it 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:02.119 would last as long. 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:03.960 Yeah no, yeah, absolutely not. 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:04.480 Yeah. 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:06.880 Yeah, we'll get into that because the nature of their 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:11.160 legal residence there is very temporary. Yeah, okay. So Turkey 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:13.720 has used the SNA as Syrian National Army Right, which 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:17.400 is it's more explicitly Turkish backed faction, as a directly 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.359 linked proxy force. They've used it in their operations against 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:24.760 the STF. So the Syrian Democratic Forces another acronym for you, 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:28.880 the organization which includes the yepige right, their YPG. The 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:33.360 YPG the other elements of the military forces of the 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:37.760 autonomous areas North and East Syria, sometimes called Rishaba. They 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:41.520 have also used the SNA outside of Syria, right in Azerbaijan, 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:45.240 Libya and Nizia, like just as a private military right 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:47.880 as a mercenary army more or less, and you'll you'll 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:51.360 hear them refer to sometimes as mercenaries, certainly like when 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:53.159 they're being used outside of Syria, it's hard to argue 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:56.000 that they're not, and other times, like when they're being 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:58.600 used in Syria. A lot of these folks were previously 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:01.159 parts of other groups that have kind of been repackaged 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:04.039 and bundled up together by Turkey, and there are still 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:09.960 many factions within these like broadly speaking Turkish supported Arab 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:13.159 rebel forces in Syria. There are some Kurdish groups as well, 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.280 but not so many, and there are some Turkic groups 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.960 that are not Arab. So these property forces are really 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.160 vital to the Turkey strategy in Syria. I wanted to 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:26.160 get a sense of how numerous the redirected or re 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:28.920 recruited jahades were from other groups, so I reached out 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:33.000 to Zagros Hiwa. People are not familiar with Zagros. He 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:37.400 is a spokesperson of the Kurdistan Communities Union's Foreign Relations Commission. 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.240 If you're not familiar with the Kurdistan Communities Union, it's 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:44.800 the umbrella organization for the several democratic confederalist political parties North, South, 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.279 East and West Kurdistan which are inspired by the ideology 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:50.600 of Abdullah Asient. So we're going to hear more from 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:53.760 Zagoros next week. I have a number of questions about 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:57.159 the ongoing Turkish bombing there in the in the Kandil 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.240 Mountains in the in the north of the kur Stan 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.400 a thonomous region of Iraq. But we're going to drop 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.800 a little quote here where he talks about the interactions 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:08.000 at the SDF and the EPIGAY and the other other 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:11.880 units right hPG have had with the Turkish Army's Arab 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:17.640 Syrian elements. When you hear Zagros here talking about DASH, 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:20.200 what he's talking about is the so called Islamic State, 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:23.039 the Islamic State of Iraq and the levant Right. It's 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:26.640 just the Arabic acronym of the same organization. So if 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:28.200 you went aware that's what he's talking about. 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:34.360 The invading Turkish Army is that many jihadists have been 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:41.080 incorporated into the Turkish Army. They are acting as units 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:46.080 with the Turkish or separate units with the Turkish Army. 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:50.840 They have been embedded with the with natal second largest army. 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:54.919 I can say these Jajadists are ex DAJH members, x 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:59.920 Nostra Front members, x Alkaider members. They are from many nationalities, 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:05.800 according to p K officials Patriotic Union of Kdistan officials, 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.760 they say that they have learned the names of three 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:15.720 hundreds of these DATJ members in the Turkish Army ranks. 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:18.320 So also. 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:26.640 Underground Kdistan Freedom guerrillas themselves have observations about the inclusion 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:33.760 of jihadist members in the ranks of the Turkish Army 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:39.920 and many of the close range classes blanket point classes 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:45.800 with the Turkish Army. Kurdistan Freedom Guerrillas here some of 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:52.520 the soldiers speaking Arabic, shouting yearning in Arabic. 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:57.040 To understand further what's going on in Turkey, I think 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:01.160 you need to understand the phenomenon of Turkish ultra nationalism 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.880 and social Darwinism. This is not just endemic in Turkey, 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.760 but also in European countries with a large Turkish diaspora. 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.280 The most extreme and concerning example of this is a 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:14.320 group called the Gray Wolves. The gray Wolves are the 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:17.360 militant street wing of the Nationalist Movement Party in Turkey, 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:19.880 and they've been involved in political violence there since the 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:26.080 nineteen sixties, with their primary target being curved Greeks, Alavis, Arabs, Christians, 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:30.440 Jews and Armenians. These are all minority ethnic groups. 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:30.880 I guess. 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:33.680 To understand this further, you have to be able to 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:39.319 differentiate between race, state, and nation. Right, which is getting 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:41.720 into things that I lecture about. But the idea of 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:46.120 a race is like affective biological link, right, This isn't 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:49.880 born out necessarily, but the idea of a shared biology. 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:54.400 The idea of a nation. A nation is an imagined community, right, 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.400 which which are can have many races. It could have 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:00.800 a state aligned to it or not. Right, So the 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:04.720 Turkish nation doesn't necessarily align with the Turkish date. There 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:06.880 are like other groups within the Turkish state. You have 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.720 Turkish citizenship, but do not see themselves as nationally or 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:15.120 ethnically Turkish. For what the gray Wolves believe is the 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.560 superiority of a Turkish race, and they strive for a 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:23.800 monoethnic Sunni Islamic Turkish nation. They are pan Turkic organizations, 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.960 so they want to join together all the Turkic peoples 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:30.880 in one kind of renewed Turkish empire. Right after clap 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:34.040 to the Soviet Union, they called for this revived empire 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:38.240 that would unite Turkic people. They like many of these 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:41.439 extremely right wing violent organizations have their roots in anti 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.640 communism right in the Cold War, and specifically and something 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:48.280 called Operation Gladio, which was a sort of anti communist 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:52.960 guerrilla training supported by the CIA and other groups. They 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:57.520 began as government condoned and a sort of sort of 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:01.240 deniable government force to use against the left right. I'm 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:03.319 not going to be able, like I can't detil everythink 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:04.760 the Gray Wolves are down and this isn't what that 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.480 episode it's about. I do want to explain one incident. 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:11.320 It's maybe one of the most heenous things that they're 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:13.360 known for, and it's called the Marush massacre. 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:17.120 Are you familiar with this? Sharene, No, I'm not. Actually Okay, 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:18.800 a little little history for you. 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:22.560 So in December nineteen seventy eight in Karaman Mirash Karaman 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:26.080 Marash in Mirash you'll hear those two terms used both right, 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:28.839 like Karaman I think means hero in Turkish. There was 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:32.280 a battle there in the early part of twentieth century. 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:34.040 I think it was in the First World War, and 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:36.559 so they added like hero to the start of the town. 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.040 But Alavi people don't tend to use that when they 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.280 talk about the massacre because it seems a little weird 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:46.679 to be like a great town where this horrible massare occurred. 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:50.360 So you're here both it's mrs, but s has a 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:54.520 little diacritical mark, so it's ah noise. The massacre starts 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:57.160 in seven, nineteen seventy eight, when an anti Soviet movie 0:10:57.559 --> 0:10:59.560 is being shown in a movie theater in town and 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:01.680 someone through as a bomb in to the theater. Right 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:04.640 Communist brouts were blamed for this. It's a little unclear 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.199 if it really was them or someone who who wanted 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:10.360 to start some drama by pretending to be them, if 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:14.160 that makes sense, right. So many Alavis Alaviz are a 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:15.520 group of Kurd Are you familiar? 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:19.319 And Sharen, I was actually just trying to hy myself 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:22.400 because I'm really not familiar with this sect because I 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:25.720 know it's completely separate from Sunni Islam, is Shia Islam. 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:28.760 Is it more like Sufiism? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:29.280 what I thought. 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:34.880 They're like a twelve Sufiist with thinncrectic elements from like 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.400 uh like veneration of nature, and they have this sort 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:40.160 of idea of sainthood. Right, I probably used a lot 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.040 of words that people aren't super familiar with. So can 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:46.360 you explain to Sufism and then Sunni and Shia maybe. 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:49.320 So maybe you're familiar with the two different main sects 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.360 of Islam, which are Sunni and Shira. The main difference 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:54.800 between the two, if you want to really boil it down, 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:59.040 is who they believe the successor should have been to 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:05.120 the prophet Muhamma. The shi has believe that his cousin 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.720 and his son in law Ali should have been the successor, 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:11.000 versus the Sunnis don't believe he needed a successor at all, 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:13.800 and it was more just like passing down his teachings. 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:15.920 There's a lot of history behind that, and there's a 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:19.680 lot of drama and violence, but that's like the most 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:21.440 simple way to put it, and it kind of grew 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:26.480 from there. The Sufism sect, on the other hand, is 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:30.000 a little different. It's described as a contemplative school of 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:33.600 Islam that aims to develop an individual's consciousness of God 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:38.439 through chanting, recitation, of litanies, music and physical movement. Maybe 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:42.880 you know or you've seen the Sufi like whirling dervishes. 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.080 It's basically a form of like physical active meditation for them. 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:50.480 So it definitely differs from both Sunni and Sushia Islam. 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.240 It's more in a way spiritual. Is that is that 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:54.040 a decent summary? 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.320 Not me? Yeah, I think I think you've done a 0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:57.720 great job. 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:02.439 And Sufi's are like broadly Sunni, I guess, and Alavites 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:06.200 are like there are twelves and seven is which is 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:08.080 like to do with the amount of people you think 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:11.400 are the the imam's successes to Ali, which we don't 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:13.360 need to go into I don't think a very great depth, 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.600 but I guess Alavites would would fall into the twelve 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.720 A camp in not traditional twelve Shia. 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.160 That's what the V you're saying, the V al yes. 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.360 As opposed to Ala whites, right, another. 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:28.839 Ship al whites is very different? Yeah, yes, Like I 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:31.200 feel like it's very confusing because they sound so similar. 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:36.360 But Ala Whites they're they're considered disbelievers by the classical 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:41.240 like Sunni and Shia theologies, they're their own separate group. 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:44.480 It's like a religious sect that like kind of splintered 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:48.360 off from early Shiahism in the ninth century. 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.320 And they are the sector which the Asad family yes 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:57.199 belongs and many other military families in Bathistsiria belonged, right. 0:13:57.800 --> 0:13:58.479 Yeah. 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:02.600 When the bar this party like led by half, said 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:06.480 Bashar's dad, when he took power, the Alo Whites in 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:08.839 the military sect or the Alo white sect in the 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:12.000 military were really supportive of that regime. And I feel 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:14.280 like it's a big reason why he gained popularity and 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:18.120 was able to like overthrow the government. 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.640 Yeah yeah, Okay, So that's how little breakdown of Islam. 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:24.640 I know, it's good. 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:27.960 There's just so much like like little details that I 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:30.800 know I will miss, and it's just it's so much 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:35.640 more complicated. But yeah, there's just many sects that stem 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:39.080 all from the one religious book of the Quran, and 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:42.320 then shit happens. I don't know what else is. 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:45.880 Well, maybe we'll explain it in another day for people 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:47.840 they do think, like I went to school at a 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:50.360 very woke time in the United Kingdom's history, you could 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:54.600 do Islam as your like religious studies. Wait really yeah, yeah, 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:58.520 it's because Tony Blair in the Woknesse that's crazy. Yeah, 0:14:58.560 --> 0:14:59.600 I know, it's cool. It's really good. 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:02.640 I lent, well, so what did what did I miss? 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:03.400 You tell me? 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.920 No, I'm not, I'm not. I'm not here to fucking no, 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:11.400 I'm serious. I am absolutely not here to tell you 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:13.360 what you go right round. I think you did an 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:16.360 excellent job. Shia comes from like the party of Ali, right, 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:17.680 That's what the word means. 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:21.120 And I think that's the main reason why Sufism is 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.520 more associated with Sunni Islam. F I'm being honest, because 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.320 that's like the main tenet of being Shia is that 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.280 you believe that Ali was the successor, and so I 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.920 think anything that is not that usually is more under 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:32.800 the Sunni umbrella. 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:36.360 Yeah, I think sometimes you'll see it like as a 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.440 third like Sufism is the own thing. Yeah, Germany, like 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:42.560 more Muslims in the world are Sunni than Shiah. I'm 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:44.160 not going to do a thing that people do where 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:46.560 they go around naming the governments which are one or another, 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:50.680 and like, I don't think that's very useful. So let's 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:54.880 go back to nineteen seventy eight in Mirash. Right, these Alavis, 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:58.560 for reasons that we have just explained, are perceived A 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:02.280 they are Curdie right, so they're not Turkic, and B 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:06.880 they are perceived to be heretical by people with the 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:10.240 more conventional Sunni Islam, or some people, I should say so. 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:13.360 The day after this bomb, guys of a left wing 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:17.680 cafe in town is bombed and two leftist teachers are 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.560 murdered on their way home from school. Later, at their 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:24.840 funeral it's attacked by a mob of Turkish nationalists. Right 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:29.520 later that week, exes start appearing on the doors of 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:32.720 the Alavi homes in this area of town, which is 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:37.440 predominantly Alavi right. They made announcements to the mosques saying 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.200 that communists and Alavis are burning your mosques. You should 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.880 attack them and kill them well. And on the twenty 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.440 thirty December, crowd stoked buying comprised of the Gray Wolves 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.960 rampaid through all the neighborhoods. Children, women and men were 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:51.760 murdered in their homes and their bodies were thrown in 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:55.160 the street. Women were raped and injured, people removed from 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:58.800 the hospital beds and murdered children were burned alive in 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:02.160 the furnaces of their own home homes. Estimates of the 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:05.719 amount of people who were murdered vary from like one 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.359 hundred and eleven, which is the official government number, to 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:10.359 one hundred and fifty, which is sort in the British 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:14.600 Alabi society. Five hundred and fifty something houses were burned 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.359 to destroy nearly three hundred businesses were looted. 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:21.520 Writer as is Tunk, my oppointing st I got that wrong. 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:24.240 I'll try my best, who's written a book about the massacre, 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:29.320 believes that the Alavis were killed for refusing to assimilate 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.639 to the Turkish language and culture, and he adds occurs 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.040 to not the only victims of the attack, progressive and 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:37.600 leftist Turks who had opposed the official policies of Ancro 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:42.800 Walls included. The trials for this massacre actually continued until 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.720 nineteen ninety one. So it happened in nineteen seventy eight, Right, 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:48.760 it's a long time. A total of eight hundred and 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:50.879 four people were put on trial, which kind of shows 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.440 you the scale of the mob. 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:53.679 That you have. 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:56.080 Was it mostly the gray Wolves? 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:58.639 Yeah, So it comes out of the MHP, which is 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:01.959 this Turkish nationalist party, and it's generally attributed to the 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:05.320 gray Wolves as like causality, Right, and when you get 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.040 these massive crowd violence things. It's not like everyone's a 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:11.800 card carrying member necessarily. You'll hear people say that they 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:15.640 consider there to be like state or organizational complicity beyond it. 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.199 It wasn't a spontaneous thing, right, and that that's an 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:22.119 allegation that's sometimes made. Twenty nine people were sentenced to 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:25.119 life in prison for this by nineteen ninety one. 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:27.200 Out of eight hundred and four or twenty nine percent. 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:30.080 Yeah, and all of them were released in nineteen ninety two. Okay, 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:32.960 it's part of an anti terrorism law. Now it's a 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:35.400 good time streams. You know who will not commute your 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:41.120 life sentence? Oh my god, they won't do it. 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:42.359 Well, whatever it is. 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:54.280 Yeah, all right, we're back. 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:57.560 We're moving on from massacres thankfully. 0:18:57.760 --> 0:18:59.840 So we're talking about the Gray Wolves, right, that's where 0:18:59.880 --> 0:19:00.720 they come from. 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.800 Today. The party that they were sort of founded. 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:06.800 By their m HP is allied with the Eerligan's Party 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:10.000 and they've continued their violence and particularly they've begun to 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.840 focus on Kurdish people. Right last year, groups of them 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:16.040 in the diaspora could be found in Belgium attacking kurd 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.320 So they found to be celebrating the Kurdish New Year 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:22.000 Right celebrating the year often with fire outside. It's pretty 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.560 fucking easy to see who's doing it right, and they 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.119 were attacked. You could see videos of this if you 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:29.040 scroll far enough back on my Twitter timeline you'll see 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:32.399 I've shared some of them. Twenty fifteen, they protested and 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:36.159 burned Chinese flags and attacked people who looked Asian, to 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.240 include Korean folks and folks who certainly were not Chinese, 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:43.360 in response to the Chinese government span on Turkic wigas 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:47.199 fasting during the month of Ramadan. They also opposed Russia 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:49.639 due to its collaboration with a SAD and its attacks 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:53.080 on Syrian Turkmen. Some Gray Wolves had gone over to 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:55.959 Syria to fight, and they're fighting against a SAD right 0:19:56.200 --> 0:20:00.320 with Turkmen units. I guess perhaps their most fam famous 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:03.760 like incident in the war was in twenty fifteen when 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:08.240 they shut down a Russian plane was shut down and 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.879 the pirate parachute out and then they machine gunned him 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:15.399 while he was parachuting down. WHOA, Yeah, so they pretty 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.080 strongly opposed to the Russian support of the Assad rasion. 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:20.439 Yeah, I mean, there are one of the many reasons 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:23.159 why I really get frustrated with all these different sects 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:26.880 that are like anti Assad and I am also anti Sad. 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:30.159 But then they make it so complicated because they're terrible people, 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:32.960 and so it's not just the rebels and these citizens 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:37.160 of their own country trying to stand up against their government. 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:42.639 It becomes this larger political clusterfuck that gets hard to 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:44.840 keep track of. And I think that's why it's gone 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:47.359 on for this long. It's not simple. It's not just 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:52.720 like government versus people anymore. It's just too many elements. 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:56.280 Right that you have people fighting within their revolution and 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:59.000 the government constantly exploiting those divisions, right. 0:20:59.320 --> 0:20:59.840 Yeah. 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:02.960 So yeah, as I said, the Wolves have significant support 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:04.879 in the Turkish Jasper and they represent the largest right 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:07.040 wing movement in Germany, which is pretty impressive when you 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:12.000 consider like Germany. Yeah, like Germany is not known for 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:14.720 not having much right wing Go ahead, Green, you're looking. 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:16.520 I can see there's a question inside you. 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:19.800 I'm just okay, because so the Gray Wolves believe in 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:23.800 the superiority of the Turkish race. Correct, that's correct, And 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:28.080 you're saying that they are also big in Germany. I 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:32.600 feel like Germany for a time also considered themselves to 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:33.800 be the. 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:39.920 True sine. There are some things that they share. Yeah, 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:42.160