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Speaker 1: Al Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: All Right, hello, welcome to the podcast it could happen here.

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Speaker 2: Podcasts for Me and Cheren talk about vegetables or terrible things,

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Speaker 2: depending on the week. It's me, it's uine and today

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Speaker 2: it's a terrible thing. It's not a vegetable or a

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Speaker 2: sa animal. How are you, Cherene, how are you doing?

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Speaker 3: I'm good. That's honestly a great premise just for a

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Speaker 3: show in general, Like we talk about either food or

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Speaker 3: something terrible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like and you never know, you know, just yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's just in your playlist. And then is it a

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Speaker 2: fucking artichoke? Is it genocide?

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Speaker 4: You don't know?

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Speaker 3: You have to find out.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the only way is by listening.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but hi, I'm good, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 4: Good. I'm glad to hear it, Shreen.

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Speaker 2: So, what I wanted to talk about today is what

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Speaker 2: is happening in Turkey?

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Speaker 4: Why are they like this? What is going on?

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Speaker 2: Specifically? I want to talk about some of these attacks

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Speaker 2: on Syria and refugees in Turkey. The people may have seen,

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Speaker 2: they may not have seen. I see them in my timeline,

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Speaker 2: but maybe that's because of the people I follow. I

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Speaker 2: think to start off with to understand what's happening in Turkey.

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Speaker 2: You have to understand the relations between Turkey and Syria.

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Speaker 2: Since the Civil War began in Syria, which is more

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Speaker 2: than a decade ago now, thirteen odd years ago. So

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Speaker 2: from the start of the war, Turkey has backed Antio

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Speaker 2: sad factions, right, so those are the rebels in Syria.

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Speaker 4: This is a big change.

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Speaker 2: In two thousand and eight, A Sadden Herd again's family

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Speaker 2: went on holiday together.

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Speaker 4: Really yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they went into a southern Turkey and a little

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Speaker 2: little beach holiday together.

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Speaker 5: Disturbing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, what a time. Yeah, just to do to

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Speaker 2: racking by the beach.

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Speaker 4: But unfortunately they're no longer holiday and together. They might

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Speaker 4: be holding again soon as we'll see.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what it sounds like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they are becoming tight again, and again referenced their

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Speaker 2: family holiday in his most recent comments on really yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's like our relations have been familial.

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Speaker 4: I like that at all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know what'd be going on holiday with

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Speaker 2: Marshal Lasad just as a moral principle.

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Speaker 3: I think it's just crazy to be because you're right

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Speaker 3: they I feel like we're very open about supporting the

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Speaker 3: anti Assad forces and so to be like suddenly, why

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Speaker 3: can't we have diplomatic friendliness, Like, come on, it's just

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Speaker 3: like the weirdest plot to us to.

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Speaker 2: Be Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it

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Speaker 2: comes from anti migrant sentiment in Turkey, which I want

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Speaker 2: to get into. I think it's so like we are

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Speaker 2: witnessing this global crackdown on migration, on refugees. We see

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Speaker 2: it in Europe, we see it here at southern border,

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Speaker 2: we see it here in Turkey, We're seeing it in

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Speaker 2: North Africa. We're seeing it all over.

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Speaker 4: So this is hasn't always been the case.

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Speaker 2: At the start of the war, Turkey thrope and it's

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Speaker 2: bordereds to to Syrian refugees, right, They built camps to houses.

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Speaker 2: They were strong backers of the revolution. They spent forty

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Speaker 2: million dollars carrying to their refugees. The Nationally Intelligence Organization,

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Speaker 2: the MIT, actually trained parts of the FSA, the Free

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Speaker 2: Syrian Army, and then later they brought together the s NA.

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Speaker 2: There will be many acronyms, right, like every civil war

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Speaker 2: loves a three letter acronym, and the Syrian war is

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Speaker 2: no different.

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Speaker 3: But they were really open, they were really public about

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Speaker 3: being like we welcomed the refugees. I remember that was like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, as a Syrian, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: that's nice.

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Speaker 4: It was nice, nice thing to do.

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Speaker 3: Like I mean, like at the time, no one gave

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Speaker 3: a shit for the most part, so to have like

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Speaker 3: a country out loud be like we welcome the refugees,

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Speaker 3: come over here will help. And now they have the

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Speaker 3: largest population of Syrian refugees like in the world. I

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Speaker 3: don't know if you're gonna mention this coming up, but

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Speaker 3: I feel like the only thing that changed, not the

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Speaker 3: only thing, one of the only things. The main thing

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Speaker 3: that changed is that no one in Turkey thought it

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Speaker 3: would last as long.

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Speaker 4: Yeah no, yeah, absolutely not.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll get into that because the nature of their

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Speaker 2: legal residence there is very temporary. Yeah, okay. So Turkey

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Speaker 2: has used the SNA as Syrian National Army Right, which

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Speaker 2: is it's more explicitly Turkish backed faction, as a directly

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Speaker 2: linked proxy force. They've used it in their operations against

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Speaker 2: the STF. So the Syrian Democratic Forces another acronym for you,

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Speaker 2: the organization which includes the yepige right, their YPG. The

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Speaker 2: YPG the other elements of the military forces of the

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Speaker 2: autonomous areas North and East Syria, sometimes called Rishaba. They

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Speaker 2: have also used the SNA outside of Syria, right in Azerbaijan,

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Speaker 2: Libya and Nizia, like just as a private military right

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Speaker 2: as a mercenary army more or less, and you'll you'll

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Speaker 2: hear them refer to sometimes as mercenaries, certainly like when

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Speaker 2: they're being used outside of Syria, it's hard to argue

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Speaker 2: that they're not, and other times, like when they're being

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Speaker 2: used in Syria. A lot of these folks were previously

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Speaker 2: parts of other groups that have kind of been repackaged

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Speaker 2: and bundled up together by Turkey, and there are still

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Speaker 2: many factions within these like broadly speaking Turkish supported Arab

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Speaker 2: rebel forces in Syria. There are some Kurdish groups as well,

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Speaker 2: but not so many, and there are some Turkic groups

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Speaker 2: that are not Arab. So these property forces are really

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Speaker 2: vital to the Turkey strategy in Syria. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: get a sense of how numerous the redirected or re

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Speaker 2: recruited jahades were from other groups, so I reached out

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Speaker 2: to Zagros Hiwa. People are not familiar with Zagros. He

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Speaker 2: is a spokesperson of the Kurdistan Communities Union's Foreign Relations Commission.

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Speaker 2: If you're not familiar with the Kurdistan Communities Union, it's

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Speaker 2: the umbrella organization for the several democratic confederalist political parties North, South,

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Speaker 2: East and West Kurdistan which are inspired by the ideology

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Speaker 2: of Abdullah Asient. So we're going to hear more from

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Speaker 2: Zagoros next week. I have a number of questions about

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Speaker 2: the ongoing Turkish bombing there in the in the Kandil

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Speaker 2: Mountains in the in the north of the kur Stan

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Speaker 2: a thonomous region of Iraq. But we're going to drop

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Speaker 2: a little quote here where he talks about the interactions

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Speaker 2: at the SDF and the EPIGAY and the other other

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Speaker 2: units right hPG have had with the Turkish Army's Arab

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Speaker 2: Syrian elements. When you hear Zagros here talking about DASH,

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Speaker 2: what he's talking about is the so called Islamic State,

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Speaker 2: the Islamic State of Iraq and the levant Right. It's

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Speaker 2: just the Arabic acronym of the same organization. So if

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Speaker 2: you went aware that's what he's talking about.

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Speaker 1: The invading Turkish Army is that many jihadists have been

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Speaker 1: incorporated into the Turkish Army. They are acting as units

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Speaker 1: with the Turkish or separate units with the Turkish Army.

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Speaker 1: They have been embedded with the with natal second largest army.

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Speaker 1: I can say these Jajadists are ex DAJH members, x

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Speaker 1: Nostra Front members, x Alkaider members. They are from many nationalities,

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Speaker 1: according to p K officials Patriotic Union of Kdistan officials,

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Speaker 1: they say that they have learned the names of three

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Speaker 1: hundreds of these DATJ members in the Turkish Army ranks.

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Speaker 4: So also.

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Speaker 1: Underground Kdistan Freedom guerrillas themselves have observations about the inclusion

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Speaker 1: of jihadist members in the ranks of the Turkish Army

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Speaker 1: and many of the close range classes blanket point classes

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Speaker 1: with the Turkish Army. Kurdistan Freedom Guerrillas here some of

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Speaker 1: the soldiers speaking Arabic, shouting yearning in Arabic.

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Speaker 2: To understand further what's going on in Turkey, I think

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Speaker 2: you need to understand the phenomenon of Turkish ultra nationalism

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Speaker 2: and social Darwinism. This is not just endemic in Turkey,

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Speaker 2: but also in European countries with a large Turkish diaspora.

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Speaker 2: The most extreme and concerning example of this is a

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Speaker 2: group called the Gray Wolves. The gray Wolves are the

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Speaker 2: militant street wing of the Nationalist Movement Party in Turkey,

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Speaker 2: and they've been involved in political violence there since the

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixties, with their primary target being curved Greeks, Alavis, Arabs, Christians,

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Speaker 2: Jews and Armenians. These are all minority ethnic groups.

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Speaker 4: I guess.

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Speaker 2: To understand this further, you have to be able to

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Speaker 2: differentiate between race, state, and nation. Right, which is getting

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Speaker 2: into things that I lecture about. But the idea of

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Speaker 2: a race is like affective biological link, right, This isn't

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Speaker 2: born out necessarily, but the idea of a shared biology.

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Speaker 2: The idea of a nation. A nation is an imagined community, right,

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Speaker 2: which which are can have many races. It could have

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Speaker 2: a state aligned to it or not. Right, So the

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Speaker 2: Turkish nation doesn't necessarily align with the Turkish date. There

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Speaker 2: are like other groups within the Turkish state. You have

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Speaker 2: Turkish citizenship, but do not see themselves as nationally or

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Speaker 2: ethnically Turkish. For what the gray Wolves believe is the

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Speaker 2: superiority of a Turkish race, and they strive for a

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Speaker 2: monoethnic Sunni Islamic Turkish nation. They are pan Turkic organizations,

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Speaker 2: so they want to join together all the Turkic peoples

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Speaker 2: in one kind of renewed Turkish empire. Right after clap

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Speaker 2: to the Soviet Union, they called for this revived empire

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Speaker 2: that would unite Turkic people. They like many of these

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Speaker 2: extremely right wing violent organizations have their roots in anti

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Speaker 2: communism right in the Cold War, and specifically and something

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Speaker 2: called Operation Gladio, which was a sort of anti communist

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Speaker 2: guerrilla training supported by the CIA and other groups. They

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Speaker 2: began as government condoned and a sort of sort of

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Speaker 2: deniable government force to use against the left right. I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to be able, like I can't detil everythink

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Speaker 2: the Gray Wolves are down and this isn't what that

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Speaker 2: episode it's about. I do want to explain one incident.

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Speaker 2: It's maybe one of the most heenous things that they're

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Speaker 2: known for, and it's called the Marush massacre.

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Speaker 4: Are you familiar with this? Sharene, No, I'm not. Actually Okay,

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Speaker 4: a little little history for you.

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Speaker 2: So in December nineteen seventy eight in Karaman Mirash Karaman

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Speaker 2: Marash in Mirash you'll hear those two terms used both right,

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Speaker 2: like Karaman I think means hero in Turkish. There was

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Speaker 2: a battle there in the early part of twentieth century.

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Speaker 2: I think it was in the First World War, and

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Speaker 2: so they added like hero to the start of the town.

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Speaker 2: But Alavi people don't tend to use that when they

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Speaker 2: talk about the massacre because it seems a little weird

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Speaker 2: to be like a great town where this horrible massare occurred.

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Speaker 2: So you're here both it's mrs, but s has a

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Speaker 2: little diacritical mark, so it's ah noise. The massacre starts

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Speaker 2: in seven, nineteen seventy eight, when an anti Soviet movie

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Speaker 2: is being shown in a movie theater in town and

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Speaker 2: someone through as a bomb in to the theater. Right

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Speaker 2: Communist brouts were blamed for this. It's a little unclear

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Speaker 2: if it really was them or someone who who wanted

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Speaker 2: to start some drama by pretending to be them, if

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Speaker 2: that makes sense, right. So many Alavis Alaviz are a

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Speaker 2: group of Kurd Are you familiar?

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Speaker 3: And Sharen, I was actually just trying to hy myself

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Speaker 3: because I'm really not familiar with this sect because I

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Speaker 3: know it's completely separate from Sunni Islam, is Shia Islam.

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Speaker 3: Is it more like Sufiism? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's

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Speaker 3: what I thought.

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Speaker 2: They're like a twelve Sufiist with thinncrectic elements from like

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Speaker 2: uh like veneration of nature, and they have this sort

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Speaker 2: of idea of sainthood. Right, I probably used a lot

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Speaker 2: of words that people aren't super familiar with. So can

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Speaker 2: you explain to Sufism and then Sunni and Shia maybe.

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Speaker 3: So maybe you're familiar with the two different main sects

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Speaker 3: of Islam, which are Sunni and Shira. The main difference

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Speaker 3: between the two, if you want to really boil it down,

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Speaker 3: is who they believe the successor should have been to

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Speaker 3: the prophet Muhamma. The shi has believe that his cousin

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Speaker 3: and his son in law Ali should have been the successor,

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Speaker 3: versus the Sunnis don't believe he needed a successor at all,

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Speaker 3: and it was more just like passing down his teachings.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of history behind that, and there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of drama and violence, but that's like the most

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Speaker 3: simple way to put it, and it kind of grew

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Speaker 3: from there. The Sufism sect, on the other hand, is

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Speaker 3: a little different. It's described as a contemplative school of

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Speaker 3: Islam that aims to develop an individual's consciousness of God

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Speaker 3: through chanting, recitation, of litanies, music and physical movement. Maybe

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Speaker 3: you know or you've seen the Sufi like whirling dervishes.

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Speaker 3: It's basically a form of like physical active meditation for them.

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Speaker 3: So it definitely differs from both Sunni and Sushia Islam.

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Speaker 3: It's more in a way spiritual. Is that is that

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Speaker 3: a decent summary?

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Speaker 4: Not me? Yeah, I think I think you've done a

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Speaker 4: great job.

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Speaker 2: And Sufi's are like broadly Sunni, I guess, and Alavites

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Speaker 2: are like there are twelves and seven is which is

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Speaker 2: like to do with the amount of people you think

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Speaker 2: are the the imam's successes to Ali, which we don't

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Speaker 2: need to go into I don't think a very great depth,

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Speaker 2: but I guess Alavites would would fall into the twelve

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Speaker 2: A camp in not traditional twelve Shia.

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Speaker 3: That's what the V you're saying, the V al yes.

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Speaker 4: As opposed to Ala whites, right, another.

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Speaker 3: Ship al whites is very different? Yeah, yes, Like I

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Speaker 3: feel like it's very confusing because they sound so similar.

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Speaker 3: But Ala Whites they're they're considered disbelievers by the classical

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Speaker 3: like Sunni and Shia theologies, they're their own separate group.

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Speaker 3: It's like a religious sect that like kind of splintered

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Speaker 3: off from early Shiahism in the ninth century.

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Speaker 2: And they are the sector which the Asad family yes

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Speaker 2: belongs and many other military families in Bathistsiria belonged, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: When the bar this party like led by half, said

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Speaker 3: Bashar's dad, when he took power, the Alo Whites in

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Speaker 3: the military sect or the Alo white sect in the

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Speaker 3: military were really supportive of that regime. And I feel

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Speaker 3: like it's a big reason why he gained popularity and

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Speaker 3: was able to like overthrow the government.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Okay, So that's how little breakdown of Islam.

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Speaker 2: I know, it's good.

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Speaker 3: There's just so much like like little details that I

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Speaker 3: know I will miss, and it's just it's so much

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Speaker 3: more complicated. But yeah, there's just many sects that stem

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Speaker 3: all from the one religious book of the Quran, and

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Speaker 3: then shit happens. I don't know what else is.

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Speaker 2: Well, maybe we'll explain it in another day for people

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Speaker 2: they do think, like I went to school at a

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Speaker 2: very woke time in the United Kingdom's history, you could

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Speaker 2: do Islam as your like religious studies. Wait really yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's because Tony Blair in the Woknesse that's crazy. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I know, it's cool. It's really good.

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Speaker 4: I lent, well, so what did what did I miss?

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Speaker 4: You tell me?

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Speaker 2: No, I'm not, I'm not. I'm not here to fucking no,

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Speaker 2: I'm serious. I am absolutely not here to tell you

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Speaker 2: what you go right round. I think you did an

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Speaker 2: excellent job. Shia comes from like the party of Ali, right,

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Speaker 2: That's what the word means.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's the main reason why Sufism is

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Speaker 3: more associated with Sunni Islam. F I'm being honest, because

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Speaker 3: that's like the main tenet of being Shia is that

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Speaker 3: you believe that Ali was the successor, and so I

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Speaker 3: think anything that is not that usually is more under

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Speaker 3: the Sunni umbrella.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think sometimes you'll see it like as a

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Speaker 2: third like Sufism is the own thing. Yeah, Germany, like

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Speaker 2: more Muslims in the world are Sunni than Shiah. I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to do a thing that people do where

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Speaker 2: they go around naming the governments which are one or another,

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Speaker 2: and like, I don't think that's very useful. So let's

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Speaker 2: go back to nineteen seventy eight in Mirash. Right, these Alavis,

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Speaker 2: for reasons that we have just explained, are perceived A

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Speaker 2: they are Curdie right, so they're not Turkic, and B

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Speaker 2: they are perceived to be heretical by people with the

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Speaker 2: more conventional Sunni Islam, or some people, I should say so.

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Speaker 2: The day after this bomb, guys of a left wing

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Speaker 2: cafe in town is bombed and two leftist teachers are

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Speaker 2: murdered on their way home from school. Later, at their

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Speaker 2: funeral it's attacked by a mob of Turkish nationalists. Right

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Speaker 2: later that week, exes start appearing on the doors of

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Speaker 2: the Alavi homes in this area of town, which is

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Speaker 2: predominantly Alavi right. They made announcements to the mosques saying

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Speaker 2: that communists and Alavis are burning your mosques. You should

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Speaker 2: attack them and kill them well. And on the twenty

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Speaker 2: thirty December, crowd stoked buying comprised of the Gray Wolves

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Speaker 2: rampaid through all the neighborhoods. Children, women and men were

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Speaker 2: murdered in their homes and their bodies were thrown in

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Speaker 2: the street. Women were raped and injured, people removed from

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Speaker 2: the hospital beds and murdered children were burned alive in

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Speaker 2: the furnaces of their own home homes. Estimates of the

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Speaker 2: amount of people who were murdered vary from like one

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Speaker 2: hundred and eleven, which is the official government number, to

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Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty, which is sort in the British

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Speaker 2: Alabi society. Five hundred and fifty something houses were burned

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Speaker 2: to destroy nearly three hundred businesses were looted.

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Speaker 4: Writer as is Tunk, my oppointing st I got that wrong.

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Speaker 2: I'll try my best, who's written a book about the massacre,

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Speaker 2: believes that the Alavis were killed for refusing to assimilate

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Speaker 2: to the Turkish language and culture, and he adds occurs

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Speaker 2: to not the only victims of the attack, progressive and

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Speaker 2: leftist Turks who had opposed the official policies of Ancro

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Speaker 2: Walls included. The trials for this massacre actually continued until

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety one. So it happened in nineteen seventy eight, Right,

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Speaker 2: it's a long time. A total of eight hundred and

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Speaker 2: four people were put on trial, which kind of shows

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Speaker 2: you the scale of the mob.

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Speaker 4: That you have.

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Speaker 3: Was it mostly the gray Wolves?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So it comes out of the MHP, which is

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Speaker 2: this Turkish nationalist party, and it's generally attributed to the

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Speaker 2: gray Wolves as like causality, Right, and when you get

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Speaker 2: these massive crowd violence things. It's not like everyone's a

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Speaker 2: card carrying member necessarily. You'll hear people say that they

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Speaker 2: consider there to be like state or organizational complicity beyond it.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't a spontaneous thing, right, and that that's an

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Speaker 2: allegation that's sometimes made. Twenty nine people were sentenced to

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Speaker 2: life in prison for this by nineteen ninety one.

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Speaker 3: Out of eight hundred and four or twenty nine percent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and all of them were released in nineteen ninety two. Okay,

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Speaker 2: it's part of an anti terrorism law. Now it's a

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Speaker 2: good time streams. You know who will not commute your

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Speaker 2: life sentence? Oh my god, they won't do it.

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Speaker 3: Well, whatever it is.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, all right, we're back.

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Speaker 4: We're moving on from massacres thankfully.

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Speaker 2: So we're talking about the Gray Wolves, right, that's where

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Speaker 2: they come from.

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Speaker 4: Today. The party that they were sort of founded.

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Speaker 2: By their m HP is allied with the Eerligan's Party

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Speaker 2: and they've continued their violence and particularly they've begun to

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Speaker 2: focus on Kurdish people. Right last year, groups of them

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Speaker 2: in the diaspora could be found in Belgium attacking kurd

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Speaker 2: So they found to be celebrating the Kurdish New Year

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Speaker 2: Right celebrating the year often with fire outside. It's pretty

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Speaker 2: fucking easy to see who's doing it right, and they

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Speaker 2: were attacked. You could see videos of this if you

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Speaker 2: scroll far enough back on my Twitter timeline you'll see

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Speaker 2: I've shared some of them. Twenty fifteen, they protested and

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Speaker 2: burned Chinese flags and attacked people who looked Asian, to

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Speaker 2: include Korean folks and folks who certainly were not Chinese,

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Speaker 2: in response to the Chinese government span on Turkic wigas

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Speaker 2: fasting during the month of Ramadan. They also opposed Russia

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Speaker 2: due to its collaboration with a SAD and its attacks

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Speaker 2: on Syrian Turkmen. Some Gray Wolves had gone over to

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Speaker 2: Syria to fight, and they're fighting against a SAD right

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Speaker 2: with Turkmen units. I guess perhaps their most fam famous

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Speaker 2: like incident in the war was in twenty fifteen when

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Speaker 2: they shut down a Russian plane was shut down and

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Speaker 2: the pirate parachute out and then they machine gunned him

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Speaker 2: while he was parachuting down. WHOA, Yeah, so they pretty

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Speaker 2: strongly opposed to the Russian support of the Assad rasion.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, there are one of the many reasons

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Speaker 3: why I really get frustrated with all these different sects

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Speaker 3: that are like anti Assad and I am also anti Sad.

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Speaker 3: But then they make it so complicated because they're terrible people,

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Speaker 3: and so it's not just the rebels and these citizens

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Speaker 3: of their own country trying to stand up against their government.

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Speaker 3: It becomes this larger political clusterfuck that gets hard to

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Speaker 3: keep track of. And I think that's why it's gone

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Speaker 3: on for this long. It's not simple. It's not just

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Speaker 3: like government versus people anymore. It's just too many elements.

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Speaker 2: Right that you have people fighting within their revolution and

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Speaker 2: the government constantly exploiting those divisions, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, as I said, the Wolves have significant support

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Speaker 2: in the Turkish Jasper and they represent the largest right

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Speaker 2: wing movement in Germany, which is pretty impressive when you

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Speaker 2: consider like Germany. Yeah, like Germany is not known for

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Speaker 2: not having much right wing Go ahead, Green, you're looking.

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Speaker 4: I can see there's a question inside you.

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Speaker 3: I'm just okay, because so the Gray Wolves believe in

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Speaker 3: the superiority of the Turkish race. Correct, that's correct, And

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Speaker 3: you're saying that they are also big in Germany. I

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Speaker 3: feel like Germany for a time also considered themselves to

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Speaker 3: be the.

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Speaker 2: True sine. There are some things that they share. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it does feel a little bit on the nose, doesn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah it does, Yeah, it does if it makes a difference.

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Speaker 2: In Austria, the gray wolf salute is banned. Oh whoa,

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Speaker 2: we're going to get into the gray wolf salute. Imagine

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Speaker 2: making a little wolf with your hands. Right, you're right,

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Speaker 2: that's they took that. That's like a shadow puppet. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 2: really fuck that up. That's not fair. Yeah no, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you're no longer you do. We're going to learn about

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Speaker 2: the solution. So far, I not familiar. Your big finger

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Speaker 2: and your little pinky finger up in the air. Your

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Speaker 2: other two fingers are touching your thumb.

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Speaker 3: It's almost like the six to six rocker sign, like yeah,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, it's not it's such a shadow puppet. I

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Speaker 3: feel like I've done that as a kid. That's not fair.

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Speaker 3: They can't take a shadow puppet. Whatever they've done.

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Speaker 4: Worse sharene's hard right youth that is coming out.

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Speaker 2: So if you weren't familiar with the Grabels before and

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Speaker 2: their salute, you might have become familiar with them this

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Speaker 2: week when a Turkish footballer received a two day band

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Speaker 2: for flashing the salute after scoring. When the team beat

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Speaker 2: Austria in Euro twenty twenty four, Turkish fans responded to

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Speaker 2: the band by giving the salute on mass at the quarterfinals.

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Speaker 2: So that was the next game, right, Yeah, yeah it was.

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Speaker 2: It was a scene. Like people have obviously drawn the

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Speaker 2: comparison to the previous German movement, which thought one race

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Speaker 2: was better than the other races, right, but seeing a

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Speaker 2: whole crowd of people doing that in the stadium is disturbing. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's concerning. They did it in a game in Germany,

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Speaker 2: so the salute's not banned in Germany. And then the

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Speaker 2: Turkish president Rep. Type herd Gun postponed his plans to

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Speaker 2: visit asba Jahan and attended the game after the suspension

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Speaker 2: to show his support for the team. Right. He defended

433
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 2: the player, saying he'd merely expressed his excitement after scoring.

434
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 2: Germany was big mad about this. In their defense, they

435
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 2: summoned the Turkish ambassadors and foreign ministry to explain what

436
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 2: the fuck was going on? And it has resulted in

437
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 2: considerable amounts of violence across Europe. Right, we saw in Austria,

438
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 2: we saw in Germany, we saw in Belgium, where there

439
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 2: is a large Turkish and often a large Kurdish yeaspora. Right,

440
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 2: because of the tensions between these two groups, which the

441
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 2: football has increased, then we saw like street fighting between

442
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 2: these two groups in predominantly migrant neighborhoods. Right. But I

443
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 2: don't want it's episode to just be about the football

444
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 2: or the Turkish participation in the Syrian Civil War. I

445
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 2: want it to be about what's happening to Syrian refugees

446
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 2: in Turkey today. So many Turkish people have come to

447
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 2: resent the Syrian refugees who relocated there since the started

448
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 2: the war. Estimates range from three point one to three

449
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 2: point five. I've seen four million, evidently, Like they have

450
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 2: a land border, right, Turkey and Syria, So some of

451
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,159
Speaker 2: the people crossing will have come without being documented, whereas

452
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 2: others will have come in the more formal process and

453
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 2: be documented.

454
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 4: Right. So whatever, it's millions of refugees, I think that's

455
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 4: what matters.

456
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 2: They are largely baselessly and evidently baselessly in some cases

457
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 2: accused of causing the economic troubles and include low wages

458
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 2: and inflation. Inflation exceeded seventy five percent in Turkey in May.

459
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 2: They have also been blamed for the earthquake that happened,

460
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 2: if for every twenty twenty three, which I'm not quite

461
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 2: sure how like who or what the process exactly that

462
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 2: they're postulating is there.

463
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 3: That's crazy.

464
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you just clear things that people generally can't make.

465
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 2: Earthquakes happen, so across the political s and we've seen

466
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 2: support grow for sending these refugees home. In twenty sixteen,

467
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 2: Turkey began to accuse the SDF of ethnically cleansing Arab

468
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 2: areas in Syria, and the UN refuted these accusations. Right,

469
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 2: But in twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen, and in twenty nineteen,

470
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 2: with the explicit approval of President Trump, the Turkish military

471
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 2: and its proxies attacked the SDF and seized territory inside Syria. Right,

472
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 2: Operation Peace Spring and Olive Branch. In these areas, Turkey

473
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 2: has attempted to resettle Arab refugees.

474
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 4: Right.

475
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 2: This is why we can't understand anti Syrian sentiment in

476
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 2: Turkey without understanding Turkey's involvement in the Syrian civil war. Right,

477
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 2: it's trying to create what it calls a safe zone,

478
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 2: and in the safe zone, it's trying to take the

479
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,479
Speaker 2: refugees that It's people have decided they don't want and

480
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 2: relocate them back into a country which is at war.

481
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 2: Turkey has already resettled Syrian refugees in this safe zone,

482
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 2: but obviously some of them have been in Turkey for

483
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,439
Speaker 2: more than a decade. Their children have gone to school

484
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 2: in Turkey, they speak Turkish, they've learned a new language,

485
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 2: they've learned a new alphabet. Right, they have lives there.

486
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 2: So not all of them are just taking the chance to, Yeah,

487
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 2: let me get straight back to Aleppo. For very obvious reasons,

488
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 2: people don't want to go back. Since twenty eighteen, a

489
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 2: cost of living crisis in Turkey has been leveraged by

490
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 2: the right to stoke anti Syrian sentiment. Research found that

491
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,360
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, only twenty three percent of Turkey citizens

492
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 2: would accept a Syrian bride or groom into their family

493
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 2: or consider having a Syrian as a business partner, and

494
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 2: only thirty one percent would want to have the child

495
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 2: educated in a class with a Syrian in it.

496
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 4: That is, yeah, that.

497
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 3: Makes me so fucking mad.

498
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 2: One of the things I've come across with is doesn't

499
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 2: by any means apply to all Turkish people. I've met

500
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 2: some very cool Turkish people who I like very much

501
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 2: that people who are ultranationalists in Turkey. America has its

502
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 2: fair share of bigots, right, generally, they know that it's wrong.

503
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 2: They're like, say it with your whole chest of the

504
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 2: certainly the anti Syrian sentiment that I've heard expressed online

505
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 2: from Turkish people, it's not something that like it's considered shameful.

506
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 2: They'll just they'll just fucking say it, which is kind

507
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 2: of wild. No, it's scary, Like, yeah, it's very scary.

508
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 3: Like if you've raised your child and Turkey and that's

509
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 3: the only that's their first language essentially, or that's the

510
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 3: only thing they know, that's just one of the most

511
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 3: unsafe places for them to be there. Yeah, that's scary

512
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 3: and not fair.

513
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like I know, I've met lots of Kurdish

514
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 2: people who, like, you know, they come in and to

515
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 2: the United States right where I'm helping out the border,

516
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 2: and I'll greet them in Kurdish. And like I was

517
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 2: talking to a guy the other day and mc Curdish

518
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 2: is by no means great, but it took a little

519
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 2: class and can say some words and then also, a

520
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 2: dude walked around the market with me every morning in

521
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 2: Cambusloan and just pointed at vegetables and shouted. So I'm

522
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 2: pretty pretty good when it comes to like the eggplant spectrum.

523
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:01,479
Speaker 2: So I'll greet them in command and they will. They

524
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 2: only speak Turkish, right, Like, it's not that they could

525
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 2: just drop back. And I'm sure that's true for kids

526
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 2: who would have grown up speaking Arabic in Syria if

527
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 2: they went to school in Turkey. So that's a language, and.

528
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 3: It's also like not necessarily something they wanted to happen.

529
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 3: I think that's something that really frustrates me. It's like

530
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 3: Bashar started attacking as people and they needed somewhere to go.

531
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 3: Turkey welcome them. Yeah, And when you resettle and you

532
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,360
Speaker 3: make a home somewhere, it really feels like, especially now

533
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 3: in this world, like if you're a refugee, it feels

534
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 3: like you're always going to be kind of displaced in

535
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 3: one way or another. Heartbreaking.

536
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, best you're like temporary. Yeah.

537
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 2: After the earthquake in twenty twenty three, which folks will remember,

538
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 2: we did a little fundraiser for World Central Kitchen, Syrian

539
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 2: refugees were accused of fluting a lot on social media.

540
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 2: Turkish Twitter had trending slogans like immigrants should be deported,

541
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 2: just straight up saying it. Syrian refugees were kicked out

542
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 2: of like tent camps and left homeless. They faced verbal abuse,

543
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 2: we're trying to access services. Separate shelters were set up

544
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 2: for Syrian refugees, like literally, like they couldn't be together, right,

545
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 2: Resentment simmered amongst the groups. Yeah, I read some NGO reports.

546
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: One of the things they say is that like women

547
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 2: who were refugees, especially women who run their own preferred

548
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: not to drink water because they didn't want to go

549
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 2: to the bathroom, like they were afraid and they wanted

550
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 2: to stay in their tents, and like, well, yeah, that's

551
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 2: something I've seen in other settings too, but like it,

552
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 2: it's obviously that's a pretty fuck situation to be in, right, Yeah,

553
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 2: in a hard place and you're choosing to dehydrate yourself.

554
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: NDOS later reported that refugees did not receive mobile container

555
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 2: homes until displaced Turkish residents received them, and that refugee

556
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 2: women in particular experience violence in these container camps, right,

557
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 2: So that's when they're they're dropping like chipping containers for

558
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 2: people to live in because all the houses fell down

559
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 2: because of the earthquake. Many Turkish refugees have a sort

560
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: of temporary protected status, so that temporary protected status only

561
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 2: allows them to live in the prob is that they

562
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 2: arrived in, and many of those provinces are obviously border provinces. Right. Initially,

563
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 2: many folks had come Syrian folks that come to Turkey

564
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 2: hoping that they could then continue right. Turkey kind of

565
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 2: bridges between Asia and Europe, right, so they had hoped

566
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 2: that they could go through Turkey right from east to

567
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 2: west and then and then continue into the European Union

568
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 2: preps and you live there. But that didn't work, right,

569
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 2: Many of them found themselves stuck in Turkey and not

570
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 2: even able to leave the province that they lived in.

571
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 2: After the earthquake, Turkey lifted those those restrictions on movement,

572
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: and you saw tons of Syrian folks traveling around Turkey

573
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 2: and being like, whoa like is Stumbul? How cool is

574
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 2: this like having lived there for ten years? Right, but

575
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 2: they couldn't leave their province before. For this generation of

576
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 2: Syrian some of them, like I was reading some of

577
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 2: their like social media. Like some folks I think meaningfully

578
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 2: became felt more Turkish when they were able to access

579
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 2: so things. But other folks they went back to Syria

580
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: to visit family, they were briefly allowed to do that.

581
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 2: They weren't allowed to do that before. But it also

582
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 2: broadened there was against them, I think it's fair to say.

583
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 2: And in the twenty twenty three presidential election, there wasn't

584
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 2: really an option that wasn't hostile to refugees. At Agam

585
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 2: was probably the least hostile, but still hostile. Neither did

586
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 2: the TURKEYEU deals to prevent further migration westward help right,

587
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 2: So all of this just continues to turn up the temperature.

588
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 2: Between January and December twenty twenty three, over fifty seven

589
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 2: thousand Syrians were deported. According to Human Rights Watch, these

590
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 2: deportations took place with the authorities quote pressuring the border

591
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 2: authorities to list the majority of border crossings as returnees

592
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 2: or voluntary. Turkey's voluntary returns are often coerced returns to

593
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 2: quote unquote safe zones that are pits of danger and despair.

594
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 2: That's quote from Adam Coogle, who's a Deputy Mid East

595
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: North Africa director at Human Rights Watch.

596
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 4: It's weak.

597
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty bleak, right, Like, oh, look, we're going

598
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: to volunteer you to go back to Aleppo or a

599
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 2: free I strean. Do you know who'll not force you

600
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 2: to return to a country that is well decade long

601
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 2: sivil to be best surprised, I'm not gonna lie. Yeah,

602
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 2: that's what I strike to dou Shrine. Just when you

603
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 2: think it couldn't get any worse, to hit you with

604
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 2: a terrible ad pivot. We're back and I want to

605
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 2: talk about the most recent outburst of tension. There have

606
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 2: been outburst of attension outbursts of violence against Syrian refugees

607
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 2: before in Turkey twenty twenty one springs to mind, but

608
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 2: recently this all came to a head in early July

609
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 2: when a Syrian man was accused of molesting his seven

610
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 2: year old cousin in a public toilet in central Turkey,

611
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 2: which is a pretty fuck thing to do. The guy

612
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 2: was arrested, the young girl was taken into protective custody

613
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: I think, along with her mother. But it didn't stop

614
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 2: violence exploding then the town would has happened that night,

615
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: cars were destroyed Syrian shops to attack and homes were

616
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 2: set on fire. The next night, the violence spread in

617
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 2: the border city of Gaziantep, which has like a twenty

618
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 2: five percent Syrian population. A man was stabbed. I've seen

619
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 2: the videos of like teenage boys, like I don't know

620
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: if they're dead or unconscious, but they're certainly not capable

621
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: of responding, and mobs of people are stamping on them,

622
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 2: kicking them, and it's pretty horrible stuff.

623
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, the videos I've seen of the the riots and

624
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 3: the moms are really terrifying.

625
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it's petrifying to think of like a mob

626
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 2: of people coming for you because of who you are,

627
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 2: where your parents came from, with nothing you can do

628
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 2: to defend yourself. Right. Turkey's Interior minister said that four

629
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy four arrests have been made, and Urdigan

630
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 2: did condemn the violence, but also blamed the opposition rhetoric,

631
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 2: which like the opposition to him, Yes, the opposite to him. Yeah,

632
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 2: when he himself has said it is they're going to

633
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: try and send a million more people back to Syria.

634
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 5: Right.

635
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 2: Unsurprisingly, several nights of these programs have led to anti

636
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 2: Turkish sentiment in areas of Syria that are controlled by

637
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 2: Turkey and its proxy forces. Right. Indeed, there's very proxy

638
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 2: forces in some cases turned on their Turkish backers, and

639
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: you could see on social media again, I shared some

640
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 2: of them, numerous videos last week of SNA, so that

641
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 2: Syrian National Army fighters firing on Turkish positions, tearing down

642
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 2: and burning Turkish flags, and even like mobs attacking Turkish

643
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 2: civilians in a Frien, right, which is one of the

644
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 2: cities that Turkey captured from the SDF. You can see

645
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 2: another Turkish occupied areas too. Demonstrators tried to storm the

646
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 2: headquarters or Turkish backed administration. SNA fighters withdrew from their

647
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 2: frontline positions to set up roadblocks and tack Turkish spaces.

648
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 2: Dozens of people stayed to sit in the Al Hayya

649
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 2: Square in Afrene. Again, these are not tensions have popped

650
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 2: up overnight, right. This didn't just happened because mobs in

651
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 2: Turkey attacked Syrian refugees. But this was kind of a

652
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 2: cork popping, if you like. And one of the things

653
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 2: that has caused tensions to increase in recent weeks is

654
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 2: this sort of detent.

655
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 4: Between Asad and Turkey.

656
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 2: Right, So, in response to these protests, Turkey shut off

657
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,760
Speaker 2: the internet, closed border crossings, and it sent more troops

658
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 2: into the area. Masses of people were arrested and people

659
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 2: were charged with things like desecrating national symbols of Turkey,

660
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 2: which like again that this is not in Turkey, right,

661
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 2: this is in Syria. Yeah, but in an area occupied

662
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: by Turkey.

663
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 3: I think anytime a government or an occupying power like

664
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 3: shuts off Internet, that is terrifying to me. Yeah, because

665
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 3: you know, they're trying to do something they don't want

666
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 3: you to see.

667
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, totally.

668
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 2: Fortunately, it's twenty twenty four and like there's only so

669
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: far that they can go. Like I've seen lots of

670
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 2: videos from those protests, but yeah, they're trying to stop

671
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 2: people organizing. They're trying to stop them and the world seeing.

672
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 3: It's more so the act that that power like choosing

673
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,760
Speaker 3: to do that is so purposeful, like a choice.

674
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, Like, yeah, everyone knows what you're going for there.

675
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 4: Yeah. On the fifth of July, detainees who arrested dr

676
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 4: in protests in northern Aleppo, including a child, were forced

677
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 4: to film themselves with a Turkey flag behind them and

678
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 4: apologized to the Turkish government and people for burning the

679
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 4: Turkish flag. One of the videos obtained by the Syrian

680
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 4: Observatory for Human Rights showed a child under pressure admitting

681
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 4: to quote burning the Turkeys flag and apologizing to the

682
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 4: Turkish people before kissing the flags. Yeah.

683
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 2: Again, when people kiss the flags on TV, it's not

684
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 2: a great sign. I did see videos of some of

685
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,240
Speaker 2: the SNA who appear to have captured some Turkish soldiers

686
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 2: making them kiss their flag as well, like the Syrian

687
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 2: Revolution flag. So I want to talk about these Turkish

688
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,439
Speaker 2: safe zones, right, so called safe zones, I guess they're

689
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 2: anything but safe. They've been seized through military incursions and

690
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 2: their rife with corruption in human rights abuses, both by

691
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 2: Turkish back forces and Tokish forces directly. And you'll be

692
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 2: familiar with some of this stuff from what Israel does

693
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 2: in Palestine, specifically the destruction and theft of ancient olive orchids.

694
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 2: You can see it like listed on the Syrian Observatory

695
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 2: for Human Rights if you go to like they organize

696
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 2: the areas by the name of the Turkish mission, so

697
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 2: like Operation Peace Spring Area or Euphrates Shield or Operation

698
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 2: Olive Branch is a real fucking on the nose name,

699
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 2: and you can see like ten olive trees were cut

700
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 2: down and sold for firewood, or like people reselling homes

701
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 2: that were sees from civilians.

702
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 4: Right.

703
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 3: Wow.

704
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 2: And I've spoken to people who have left a free

705
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 2: in my time in KURDISTWN and Syrian Kurdistan and in

706
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 2: the United States, and I've spoken to people who were

707
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 2: there as part of the SDF and fly backwards, and

708
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 2: like a lot of them have confirmed the same stuff, right,

709
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 2: destruction and property theft of homes and houses, and then

710
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 2: there's evidence of extortion. There's evidence of corruption in these

711
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 2: areas today, right, sexual violence, even torture. So it's pretty bad.

712
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 2: There are a ton of links that will be on

713
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 2: our sources page if you want to read more. I

714
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 2: don't want to sort of traumatize you all on your

715
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 2: way to work here. I'll just traumatize Serene. Yeah, you're working,

716
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 2: it's another day at work.

717
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a normal day.

718
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 2: Most of the protests seem to have died down now,

719
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 2: but the situation doesn't really seem to have become any

720
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 2: more stable. In Turkey, just like many other countries, politicians

721
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 2: have rented a right response to an economic crisis and

722
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 2: blame refugees for problems caused by capitalism. Reports of abuse

723
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 2: of Syrian refugees caught crossing the border of Rife, and

724
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 2: some of their data appears to be leaked in the

725
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 2: last few days. I can't confirm this, but I've seen

726
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 2: this from a few places right that data from a

727
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 2: registry of refugees has been leaked, which would obviously be

728
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 2: very concerning. Like if we look at things like the

729
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 2: Marash massacre, we look at like the totality of this

730
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,720
Speaker 2: sentiment and the people doing it. Tensions in the turkeysh

731
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 2: occupied areas of Syria remain high, with people there strongly

732
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 2: opposed to the Turkish oppression, seizure and sale of their

733
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 2: landed homes, and the potential of at a time between

734
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 2: the two countries. This week, Agan said, we will extend

735
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 2: our invitation to a sad With this invitation, we want

736
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 2: to restore Turkey Syria relations to the same level as

737
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 2: in the past. Our invitation may be extended at any time.

738
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 2: That's a readout of an interview by Turkish media that's

739
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 2: obviously translated.

740
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 4: That's so vague.

741
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 3: It's like, at what point in the past.

742
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, look, I think it's the correct

743
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 2: number of relations to have with the side is non yeah,

744
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 2: and so any more than that is bad. There are

745
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 2: also reports that Turkey is going to open crossings between

746
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 2: the territory it is controlling and regime territory. Right.

747
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 4: There are protests about that isaw in a Leppo.

748
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 2: Syria has said that normalization can only happen after Turkey

749
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,240
Speaker 2: agrees to pull out the troops that it has. Turkey

750
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 2: is opposed to this because it doesn't want the SDF,

751
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 2: which it believes to be an extension of the he KK,

752
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 2: which it considers to be a terrorist group, to have

753
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 2: territory along its border, right, And the FDF still does

754
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 2: already have territory long its border, right, Like Cami Shlow

755
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 2: where I was, you can go on top of a

756
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 2: torp building and look across the border. But that does

757
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 2: seem to be kind of a red line for Turkey.

758
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 2: So I don't know where that leaves us, But.

759
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, that does seem something that they would never want

760
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 3: to do. So but shar really called their bluff there.

761
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, which is which is kind of

762
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 2: funny given that he's not exactly in a strong position

763
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 2: to negotiate. No, but maybe Turkey has given up on

764
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 2: the revolution in Syria and it just wants to join

765
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 2: with us AT and as long as they can both

766
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 2: say fuck the Kurds, and that's enough for both of them, right,

767
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 2: But like if they can both get together on a

768
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 2: state level and be like, fuck these cords, and therefore,

769
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 2: I guess the cost of that would be sending these

770
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 2: refugees home for Turkey, which is I guess not considered

771
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 2: to be a cost by some of them. And that's

772
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 2: millions of people, right, millions of people who, like in

773
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 2: some cases, people are worried about having a citizenship removed,

774
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 2: like they went there to be safe, and of course

775
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 2: it's a violation of international law, and of course that

776
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 2: doesn't matter because international law is as real as unicorns.

777
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 2: But it leaves millions of people in limbo.

778
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 4: Right.

779
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 2: Urdigan said he's promised to send another million refugees back,

780
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,959
Speaker 2: but that's not possible without the cooperation of the regime. Really,

781
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 2: I guess he could just pump them all into like

782
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 2: a free or whatever. But he's founding people into a

783
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 2: situation where people are already actively opposed to the Turkish

784
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 2: occupation there. Right, if he pulls out his troops. He's

785
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,240
Speaker 2: going to have to accept that there will be Kurdish

786
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 2: forces on his border, which he hates. So it's a

787
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 2: question of, like what value does he assigned the safety

788
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 2: of these three million refugees, And it doesn't seem to

789
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 2: be very high. And like every time when we talk

790
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 2: about migration, that people are leaving terrible things, right, that

791
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 2: that's why people tend to end up as refugees. But

792
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: there's never been a I don't think a more pronounced

793
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 2: global crackdown than I've seen right now. It's not like

794
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 2: these Syrian refugees they can't leave their province, right. I've

795
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 2: spoken to hundreds of people who have left Turkey in

796
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 2: the last six months year. It's very hard, it's very expensive,

797
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 2: and lots of the people who have fled from Turkey

798
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 2: only went there for a few months, right, and then

799
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 2: kept moving. Every country has made it harder than it

800
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 2: ever was to immigrate. Like even you know that we

801
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,240
Speaker 2: talk about the Syrian refugee crisis in twenty fourteen, twenty sixteen,

802
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 2: unleashing three million people, right that they need a safe

803
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 2: place to go. If you try and force them back

804
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,720
Speaker 2: to Syria, it's either going to be an absolutely terrible

805
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 2: humanitarian disaster, or we're going to have more refugees entering

806
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 2: the refugee system at a time when governments all around

807
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 2: the world are indifferent at best to the survival of refugees, right,

808
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 2: including the fucking bioding government in this country.

809
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's uh, it's pretty big.

810
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, but uh, that fucking sucks, dreams.

811
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 2: It does fucking Suckan I will be back in two

812
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:14,760
Speaker 2: weeks to talk to you about what Turkey is doing

813
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 2: in the Kurdistan Autonomous Region of a rock where they

814
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 2: are bombing Curtis Dan freedom gorillas. They're setting up roadblocks

815
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 2: and again like making massive incursions into another country. So

816
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 2: that'd be great. We can you can all look forward

817
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 2: to that over the weekend. Yeah, I guess I guarantee

818
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 2: that there are refugees, probably refugees from Turkey or Syria

819
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,320
Speaker 2: in the town where you live, or in the nearest

820
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 2: big town to where you live, and you can do

821
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: something nice for them this weekend if you want to.

822
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 3: Especially if you live somewhere where it's hot as shit,

823
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 3: you can I don't know, help out drop off water

824
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 3: somewhere or something.

825
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, and I've just been talking to Kurdish refugees

826
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 2: who are in like the Northeast, you know, I spoke

827
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 2: to some They're not Kurdish or Turkish, but to some

828
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 2: refugees are in Scranton, famous for Joe Biden always talking

829
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 2: about it, but yeah, there are folks everywhere who need

830
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 2: your help.

831
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 4: You can make a difference.

832
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 2: I guess the fucking government isn't going to Joe Biden

833
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 2: isn't going to Kamala Harris isn't going to either, and

834
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,879
Speaker 2: neither is fucking Hillary Clinton. I'm damn sure of that.

835
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 2: So it is only you, and that doesn't need to

836
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 2: make you desperate. You can do something. I spoke to

837
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 2: so many, Like another of our podcast listeners was at

838
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 2: the border on Monday and I met them and they

839
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 2: were lovely and we drive around it and help people

840
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 2: and like, you just need to take that yourself.

841
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:39,359
Speaker 4: Then, like you can do something. But the first step is.

842
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 2: You know, lugging off Twitter and getting out there and

843
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 2: like I promise you, you will feel less hopeless if

844
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 2: you start helping. Even though it's only one person, it

845
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 2: makes a difference.

846
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is something that James did tell me that

847
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 3: I think about is because I get really overwhelmed with

848
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 3: the idea of how many people need help in this world.

849
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 3: And I'm just like a big softy and I really

850
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 3: just overwhelms me, like what can I what can me

851
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 3: little me do to help anything?

852
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 4: But Dreams is right.

853
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 3: If you change even one person's life, that's one person's

854
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 3: whole life. That's a big deal. And so I think

855
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,479
Speaker 3: it has to start there. And if there are many

856
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 3: more of you doing the same thing, then that's how

857
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 3: actual change happens. Because yeah, our government is useless. But yeah,

858
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 3: listen to Dames Dreams is wise and British.

859
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 2: Please, I listen to it because I'm British, because that

860
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 2: will lead you down some dark paths in terms of

861
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 2: gender ideology.

862
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 3: I mean maybe I meant that you sound wise.

863
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:37,320
Speaker 5: Because you're British.

864
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's what I got get for me.

865
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 2: But just be nice to people and they take by

866
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,879
Speaker 2: someone fucking lunch this weekend if you have the money,

867
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 2: If not, make them lunch, you know, make some rice.

868
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 2: It's cheap, And yeah, you can make a difference. No

869
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 2: one fucking else will. If you want to talk about

870
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 2: being a leftist, that's great, But like, I have so

871
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 2: much more respect for people who want to do stuff,

872
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 2: so to do stuff, and the rest will sort itself out.

873
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 2: Like you don't have to argue with people about the

874
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:05,280
Speaker 2: miniture of ideology. It doesn't matter, Like helping people matters.

875
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:06,720
Speaker 2: Making the world better matters.

876
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 4: Do that. It's Friday.

877
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 2: Hopefully you can use your weekend to do something nice

878
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 2: for someone