Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keane. Along
Speaker 1: with Jonathan Ferroll and Lisa A. Brawmowitz. Daily we bring
Speaker 1: you insight from the best and economics, finance, investment, and
Speaker 1: international relations. To find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple podcast, SoundCloud,
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com, and of course on the Bloomberg terminal.
Speaker 1: Kinneth throwing Off joins us to say he's economics and
Speaker 1: public policy professor at Harvard barely describes his public service
Speaker 1: to the nation, and of course many years is the
Speaker 1: chief economist at the I M. If there's been a
Speaker 1: few books that people have been forced to read, is well,
Speaker 1: I want to go ken to one of the great
Speaker 1: algebraic books, the giant Wendy Carlin of the University College
Speaker 1: of London, with their effort on the three equation I
Speaker 1: S L system. We have just had a natural disaster.
Speaker 1: We have had a massive COVID fiscal impulse. What does
Speaker 1: your world say of how we extract ourselves from a
Speaker 1: massive increase in the fiscal a massive increase in debt? Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: I mean I think a lot of policy of the
Speaker 1: path a couple of decades and Frankly, a lot of
Speaker 1: the academic thinking and literature was predicated on we'd never
Speaker 1: have a war, we never have a big supply shock,
Speaker 1: interest rates would never go up and guess what, oh,
Speaker 1: and there'll never be inflation. And it's happening, and we
Speaker 1: you know, we have to make adjustments that people haven't
Speaker 1: seen for a long time. And I think it's going
Speaker 1: to be much harder than it was in the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 1: The political environments changed, the economy has changes. You said,
Speaker 1: there's much more depth. The stock market's really high. People
Speaker 1: are very worried about inequality. It's going to be a
Speaker 1: heavy lift to try to treat this like a classic
Speaker 1: Kansy and demand shock because of all the news. So
Speaker 1: Ken I have to turn to Upsaled rogueoff in your
Speaker 1: excellence at i m F. Following on from Rudy dorn Bush,
Speaker 1: David fulkers Landau speaks of a dollar stronger he nailed
Speaker 1: out along with others, and here we are. How do
Speaker 1: you actually weaken the dollar? Well, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: the dominance of the dollar in trade and transactions would
Speaker 1: be there, whether the euro, you know, they're they're one
Speaker 1: fifty dollars per euro or the opposite. I mean that
Speaker 1: that's that's a given. But you know, right now, there's
Speaker 1: this concern that no matter how troubled the US is,
Speaker 1: there are other countries that are in worse shape. So
Speaker 1: it's actually, you know, uh, gonna take a chance. I
Speaker 1: I think a lot of countries are having to react
Speaker 1: because inflation goes up when the dollar strengthens. Paradoxically, we
Speaker 1: don't get that much benefit in the United States from
Speaker 1: the stronger dollar because so much of trade as priced
Speaker 1: in dollars. But the rest of the world has to react. Well,
Speaker 1: let's talk about different parts of the world than can
Speaker 1: that may be hit by a stronger dollar more substantially.
Speaker 1: Are we own the verge of a currency crisis in
Speaker 1: any emerging markets? Well, currencies have certainly fallen. I don't know,
Speaker 1: you know exactly, I'd say currency crisis, were at risk
Speaker 1: of certainly debt crisis and places like Turkey and some
Speaker 1: of the lower income, middle income emerging markets. My co
Speaker 1: author and colleague Carmen Reinhardt at the World Banks warning
Speaker 1: that there may be banking crisis and all of that,
Speaker 1: of course may lead to currency crisis, and in principle,
Speaker 1: the movement of the currencies cushioning and preventing things from
Speaker 1: you know, falling apart. But it's very stressful. I mean
Speaker 1: having your currency fall and having inflation go up and
Speaker 1: having to raise interest rates. So the position you're quite right, Kaylee.
Speaker 1: The position of emerging markets is really tough. And do
Speaker 1: rate hikes from central banks fix that or do you
Speaker 1: need direct intervention? Well, I think they're going to do
Speaker 1: a mix of both. Rate hikes help, but a lot
Speaker 1: of these countries don't really have the kind of you know,
Speaker 1: frictionless capital markets that we have certainly you know in
Speaker 1: the United States, and so they're able to intervene, but
Speaker 1: you can only do that for so long. The Asian
Speaker 1: countries have a fair amount of reserves, other countries have some,
Speaker 1: but you can't do that indefinitely. Okay. So I would
Speaker 1: like to move the conversation from fiat currencies to the
Speaker 1: realm of digital and cryptocurrencies. Can Tom was pointing out
Speaker 1: my required reading The Curse of Cash. You look at
Speaker 1: the future of currencies and digital currencies have a role
Speaker 1: to play, and I'm wondering how you differentiate the idea
Speaker 1: of CBDCs. You know, central bank digital currency is a
Speaker 1: potential digital dollar versus the broader kind of speculative assets
Speaker 1: that cryptocurrencies seem to be at the moment. Not a
Speaker 1: simple question. I mean, I think at the moment, if
Speaker 1: you think about the United States issuing the CBDC, you
Speaker 1: have to ask why they're doing it, because we have
Speaker 1: can accomplish a lot of the things the same way
Speaker 1: in the current system by making tweaks. Uh, if you
Speaker 1: did it too well, you've had a retail central bank
Speaker 1: digital currency, there'd be massive bits intermediation that we're probably
Speaker 1: not ready to handle. I think they're they're small central
Speaker 1: banks that want to issue a CBDC hoping they'll get
Speaker 1: some of the kind of business that crypto guts. But
Speaker 1: it's it's very different something that's going to be information
Speaker 1: that the central bank sees and cryptocurrencies where the general
Speaker 1: idea is to try to make it expensive to track you.
Speaker 1: I think central banks are way behind the curve and
Speaker 1: governments in general and regulating cryptocurrencies. They throw out the
Speaker 1: idea of having CBDCs to distract the conversation. But ken
Speaker 1: what's so important here, to your your very courageous book,
Speaker 1: the curse of cash is the why we both you
Speaker 1: and I are on the same page. We both agree
Speaker 1: where is regulation fine? What is the why of the delay?
Speaker 1: You know, I think it's it feels like the nine
Speaker 1: nineties in early two thousands to me when the financial
Speaker 1: system was inventing all these clever new financial engineering devices
Speaker 1: and saying, you know, catch me if you can, regulate me,
Speaker 1: if you can. And I hear very much the same
Speaker 1: things from the you know, young cryptocurrency pioneers, and there
Speaker 1: are a lot of ideas there, but they're wrong that
Speaker 1: they can't be regulated. But they're they're, you know, they're
Speaker 1: lobbying that. We we saw the Super Bowl with the
Speaker 1: ads cryptocurrency their states like Colorado in Florida, which seemed
Speaker 1: to want to be the next El Salvador. They're they're,
Speaker 1: you know, giving a lot away, a lot of money
Speaker 1: to try to control the regulation. They complain about the
Speaker 1: SEC so they're pushing back hard. Can One final question
Speaker 1: is Japanese yield curve control. Is that in the next
Speaker 1: edition of Apsfield rogue off? I mean, I I think
Speaker 1: it's not you know, it's something that works like in
Speaker 1: a zero interest rate environment, but it can come back
Speaker 1: to bite hard. And I think other central banks who
Speaker 1: have toyed with it backed off, and as interest rates rise,
Speaker 1: Japan will have its own problems. Professor, did you ever
Speaker 1: think that we have a central bank that would of
Speaker 1: the outstanding bonds let's say that j GP market. The
Speaker 1: limits to that, Ken, and you'll mind other limits to
Speaker 1: that well, I mean, in a way there are no
Speaker 1: limits to it, in the sense that central bank debt
Speaker 1: is owned by the government and so just a way
Speaker 1: of issuing short term government debt. But if interest rates
Speaker 1: rise and countries have very short term borrowing, including through
Speaker 1: the central bank, they've either got to allow inflation to
Speaker 1: go up or they've got to start unwinding a lot
Speaker 1: of that. And if global real rates rise, and I
Speaker 1: think they will continue to for a while, we're going
Speaker 1: to see a lot of pain there. Can We're looking
Speaker 1: to catch up with you, Ken Rogoff there the former
Speaker 1: I m F. Thank you for a chief Economists. Ken,
Speaker 1: Thank you sir as always right now and this is
Speaker 1: a joyful Bloomberg to welcome monthly Google Belly. He's Minister
Speaker 1: in the Presidency of South Africa, but far more in
Speaker 1: the turmoil of American political economics, the upset of developed
Speaker 1: central banks there is what is happening in emerging markets.
Speaker 1: We look at a prison today of South Africa through
Speaker 1: the experienced eyes of off Mr Ramaposs trusted advisers. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us at Bloomberg today. I
Speaker 1: need to go to the reality that our work, our
Speaker 1: medical work on COVID came out of the Johns Hopkins
Speaker 1: University and this was very much on South Africa. You
Speaker 1: have lived COVID. You replace a senior official who at
Speaker 1: age sixty two died of COVID. How immediate is COVID
Speaker 1: to South Africa and what is the COVID illness look
Speaker 1: like for South Africa in the next six months. We
Speaker 1: we thank you very much for the opportunity and your viewership.
Speaker 1: Uh so far so good. The last time I look,
Speaker 1: we seem to have everything tabling auto going down. I
Speaker 1: guess that's the reason we lifted restrictions totally in as
Speaker 1: far as COVID disconcern and encourage people to actually keep
Speaker 1: on staying or let on the communicability diseases in the
Speaker 1: old traditional way. Although I've just had this morning, which
Speaker 1: is during the day in South Africa that we seem
Speaker 1: to have found a new sub variant and it is
Speaker 1: something that we're going to look up to. But so far,
Speaker 1: so good to only recovered cost post pandemic um dealing
Speaker 1: with the economy which is even weaker than it was
Speaker 1: before pandemic, although we can say with confidence that the
Speaker 1: recent indicators have demonstrated that we are actually on the
Speaker 1: border of leveling up with the pre pandemic situation. From
Speaker 1: where you said, and with your nursing experience, when you
Speaker 1: walk in a room, you're the boss and the Roman COVID,
Speaker 1: I can see that with your nursing experience, is China
Speaker 1: getting it right or is the western world as the
Speaker 1: United States getting of it right. Um. We we've been
Speaker 1: more focused to what we're doing at home and as
Speaker 1: far as I'm concerned South Africans, they responded very positively
Speaker 1: with regard to staying more let than before COVID knowing
Speaker 1: that epitomergical diseases always um a phenomenon to stay what
Speaker 1: it about access toward a cleaner water. Kidding on Washington's
Speaker 1: because the issue of virus is an issue that is
Speaker 1: not predictable longer. Going far away, A boat went around
Speaker 1: the bottom of South Africa and it was a five
Speaker 1: thousand mile truct to Sri Lanka. Now the images of
Speaker 1: Sri Lanka collapsing are tangible. You have a South African
Speaker 1: random disarray like many other emerging markets. How immediate is
Speaker 1: the the food, the inflation, the economic unrest in South Africa?
Speaker 1: Is it's something you're focused on urgently or can you
Speaker 1: manage these challenges forward? Well? Uh, social economic situation in
Speaker 1: our country continues to be a huge threat west now
Speaker 1: with the global environment in particular big economies like United
Speaker 1: States having high inflation which has got a potential spill over.
Speaker 1: But what encourages us is that the focus of South
Speaker 1: Afghanta's Bank give us a data in projection of about
Speaker 1: UM five point four point nine, four five point seven,
Speaker 1: five point zero, four point nine, five point seven and
Speaker 1: four point seven at the third year. In other words,
Speaker 1: everything is within the range in as far as the
Speaker 1: focus of inflation is consent. Nothing is about six as
Speaker 1: oranges between three and rticore and six. And of course
Speaker 1: the the treasure is oh projection outlook gave us two
Speaker 1: point one growth this year, which is expected to averach
Speaker 1: at one point eight depending on consumer expetition. And so
Speaker 1: it is a day to remember Nelson Mandela. You will
Speaker 1: travel from Bloomberg down to the United Nations to attend
Speaker 1: UH different events there in honor of Mr Mandela. He
Speaker 1: was his anti corruption is any of us have ever seen?
Speaker 1: You have an African continent driven by different levels of corruption.
Speaker 1: What can your government do to make South Africa be
Speaker 1: much more away from corruption and much more towards the
Speaker 1: practice of legal legal affairs? UH. This is one area
Speaker 1: we as is with especially in memory of his commitment
Speaker 1: to clean government, to prosperous humanity, to human coesion. We
Speaker 1: we've demonstrated in particular when this president took over in
Speaker 1: take into account we were actually confronted with state capture
Speaker 1: for no less than ten years. When this president took
Speaker 1: over in twenty eight. In the immediate thing he attended
Speaker 1: to us to look at the prosecutorial institution is a baroner.
Speaker 1: It's it's improving, it's not yet where we want it
Speaker 1: to be. That's why we are amassing energy within the
Speaker 1: public and the private sector, trying to work with the
Speaker 1: private sector to a muscile sources so that we improved
Speaker 1: the secual caps. And the other issue is that Zondo Commission,
Speaker 1: which has been dealing with the state capture this president,
Speaker 1: what is unprecedented. Did not did not edit it, just
Speaker 1: through it in the website as it plans to put
Speaker 1: together an im Mondly, we're out of time for one
Speaker 1: reason only your entourage is over there with a sign
Speaker 1: up saying shut up. He has to go to the
Speaker 1: United Nations. Thank you so much minister for joining today.
Speaker 1: Mondy Google the belly with us from the Nation of
Speaker 1: South Africa. The read of the weekend, the read of
Speaker 1: your life, wherever you live. It's simple. Laura raym Nails
Speaker 1: at Chief US Economist a F Investments, Thank you, Laura.
Speaker 1: You wrote up where I went, which is the stickiness
Speaker 1: of rent. We all know this huge uproar in New
Speaker 1: York City about it. Williamsburg is a small enclave out
Speaker 1: to the east of Manhattan, and there there was an
Speaker 1: apartment listed for a cheap thirty five dollars. And when
Speaker 1: in a frenzy at four four thousand fifty, how do
Speaker 1: we bring down rents in America? So this is one
Speaker 1: of the ironies of this fate Hi cycle. The SAT
Speaker 1: is actually through raising rates, disincentivizing home builders in an
Speaker 1: environment where we have a shortage of housing supply. So
Speaker 1: I think it's very likely over the next year we
Speaker 1: continue to see rent putting upward pressure on inflation, and
Speaker 1: we know we're going to get into the data. This
Speaker 1: week is gonna be focused on housing. Clearly, housing sales
Speaker 1: are going to be continue to moderate. But this is
Speaker 1: one of the I think inconsistencies of the Fed's rate
Speaker 1: hikes activity with their goals, and one of the ways
Speaker 1: in which they're kind of facing a different inflation demon
Speaker 1: than they are used to coming from. This writes some
Speaker 1: important questions, and condescent And on Twitter has asked this
Speaker 1: question too. What is the optimal way of using realized
Speaker 1: inflation data to make a forward looking monetary policy decision?
Speaker 1: You know, to me, we are focusing so much on
Speaker 1: this monthly University of Michigan number, which in reality is
Speaker 1: um so sensitive to gasoline prices, and so I think
Speaker 1: we're really made too much of it when it went up,
Speaker 1: We're making too much of it when it comes down.
Speaker 1: The market indicators are more contained when it comes to
Speaker 1: inflation expectations, but when we look at inflation right now
Speaker 1: over the next year, a bottom up approach is really bad,
Speaker 1: you know. Not the Philip cur dynamics that drive inflation
Speaker 1: over the long run, but really taking it apart, and
Speaker 1: when you do that, you do not have durable good deflation,
Speaker 1: you do not have energy price deflation. It is virtually
Speaker 1: impossible to craft the story where inflation comes neatly back
Speaker 1: down to two percent. So much have to go right
Speaker 1: to get inflation to behave well, okay, Well, one of
Speaker 1: those factors obviously is going to be the Federals are
Speaker 1: hiking rates trying to bring in demand, Laura, and and
Speaker 1: this the question really surrounds how much the economy and
Speaker 1: the American consumer in particular, is going to be able
Speaker 1: to tolerate. And if you ask big banks CEOs, they're
Speaker 1: looking fine. We're just hearing from the CFO Bank of
Speaker 1: America Alistair Borthwick saying the U S consumer spending levels
Speaker 1: remain high. They delivered the highest quarter ever for spending
Speaker 1: in the second quarter. They sound quite optimistic. How optimistic
Speaker 1: are you on the U S consumer? You know, I
Speaker 1: described the the U. S consumer as resilient, and I
Speaker 1: think there's better foundation for growth going forward for I
Speaker 1: think the household, you know, looking at what's driving household spending,
Speaker 1: a lot of those components are still there. But when
Speaker 1: you back out inflation, it's clearly crowding out other discretionary spending.
Speaker 1: So again a place where inflation in and of itself
Speaker 1: is hannibalizing other demands. When you are looking at the
Speaker 1: retail stones number, it's solid that you back up the
Speaker 1: inflation impact. Real consumption is slowing, it's not in negative territory,
Speaker 1: it's not contracting, and that speaks to the resilience of
Speaker 1: the consumer because look at our economy versus a lot
Speaker 1: of the rest of the developed world. We're still in
Speaker 1: better I think, you know, standing we're still have better
Speaker 1: economic activities does not mean the fin needs to do more.
Speaker 1: I think they're there. I think they need to go
Speaker 1: fast to neutral, get there, and then they need to
Speaker 1: become more data dependent. They need to give these rain
Speaker 1: heights time to work on the economy and not be
Speaker 1: so reliant on the models that are really constructed for
Speaker 1: you know, prior episodes where we don't have inflation coming
Speaker 1: from the disruption and supply chain, from all of the
Speaker 1: unique pandemic driven inflationary factors. So I wouldn't be a
Speaker 1: favor of fas to neutral even a little bit beyond
Speaker 1: get us the three percent and then take a minute
Speaker 1: and see it would have the data respond and realize
Speaker 1: that we're just in a very different environment. I don't
Speaker 1: think there's enough acknowledgement on that from the FED. A
Speaker 1: great Laura, thank you Laura. In the of FS investments,
Speaker 1: I agree, we're in a very different environment. This is
Speaker 1: a joy right now and arguably after Ken Rogoff, after
Speaker 1: the senior officer from South African others, I'm sorry, this
Speaker 1: is the most important interview of the day. Marco Peppick
Speaker 1: is chief strategist a clock Tower Group and what he
Speaker 1: does is absolutely unique is folding geopolitical strategy which is
Speaker 1: his wheelhouse and water bonds gonna do? What are equity's
Speaker 1: gonna do? And the distinctive feature of this is he
Speaker 1: has called bottom in June for the equity market. How
Speaker 1: do you get from a synthesis of geopolitics and frankly
Speaker 1: central bank analysis to buy equities? Now? Well, I think
Speaker 1: the most important thing Tom is what's going to happen
Speaker 1: to oil prices. We had j Polo who told us
Speaker 1: on June fifteenth that he is focusing on headline inflation
Speaker 1: UM as opposed to core, which we have all thought
Speaker 1: was the key monetary policy instrument. And so what's important
Speaker 1: now is whether oil prices have more upside or downside,
Speaker 1: And in my view, there's more downside, and there's going
Speaker 1: to be a flip correlation between equities and oil. This
Speaker 1: is too important, Ed Morris very much. And the Marco
Speaker 1: Pappa camp says, here's the geo politics. There's a tendency
Speaker 1: here to lower oil prices. Ninety on Brent clear, hundred
Speaker 1: on Brent clearly says that. The other crew says they'll
Speaker 1: be em demand that will keep oil sustained. Will that
Speaker 1: e M demand not be there? Yeah, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: And I actually think the biggest red herring right now
Speaker 1: for investors is zero COVID policy in China. Everybody thinks
Speaker 1: once it's over, there's going to be this lift up
Speaker 1: in Chinese demand, and I'm worried that that's full's gold.
Speaker 1: They are having structural secular problems. They're pushing on a
Speaker 1: string households, and a private sector in China is experiencing
Speaker 1: what we did in two thousand and so I don't
Speaker 1: think there'll be significant liftoff in e M demand. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm just paying attention to headlines that are coming out
Speaker 1: of Reuters right now, we're all paying attention to nord
Speaker 1: Stream one and whether or not that's going to reopen fully.
Speaker 1: On Thursday, Reuters now reporting that the own V expects
Speaker 1: work on nord Stream one to be completed and says
Speaker 1: deliveries will resume after we're completed. If gas is continuing
Speaker 1: to float to Europe and prices come down as you
Speaker 1: are indicating, Marco, what does that mean for the Euro Well,
Speaker 1: I mean huge liftoff, right. I think about it this way.
Speaker 1: During the euro Area crisis, which was a moment when
Speaker 1: we literally we're wondering whether the asset under question would
Speaker 1: even exist, the euro never came to parody. So I
Speaker 1: think there's been really sort of pricing in of the
Speaker 1: apocalyptic scenario. The TTF contract, if you look at the
Speaker 1: December two thousand contract, is up something like hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty percent this year. Does a natural gas hub over
Speaker 1: during Europe? So when you think about what's going on
Speaker 1: in Europe, I think the worst case scenarios price stain.
Speaker 1: But the problem for Russia is that while they're playing
Speaker 1: this game of chicken with Europe, se of their total
Speaker 1: and demand for natural gas is Europe and they don't
Speaker 1: have a way to alternate that demand. Their their transmission
Speaker 1: mechanism for natural gas our pipe planes, they're nailed to
Speaker 1: the ground. Okay, where else in the market other than
Speaker 1: the era would need to reprice to consider that, because
Speaker 1: the narrative seems to be that Europe is going into
Speaker 1: a recession. The gas issue may make it worse, but
Speaker 1: we're already there. Well, you know, markets discount the future
Speaker 1: six to twelve months ahead of time. I mean, at
Speaker 1: least that's what we all think. So I would say
Speaker 1: that when the economist puts in their cover, you know,
Speaker 1: the bear chasing a little red riding hood through the pipelines,
Speaker 1: as you probably have seen this week, I think it's
Speaker 1: fully priced. The worst case scenario for Wall Street watching
Speaker 1: this morning, and I mean global Wall Street. You speak
Speaker 1: about you've written about the nonlinearities of Putin and what
Speaker 1: we see in the war in Ukraine. Now we have
Speaker 1: some experience in a war you polarize, a stalemate or
Speaker 1: Moscow wins. Updated on that, well, I think that what's
Speaker 1: very important for investors to understand is that they're not
Speaker 1: looking at an engineering problem. So we don't know exactly
Speaker 1: how the war ends, but you know what other war
Speaker 1: didn't end, the Korean War. It's literally still going on.
Speaker 1: It's sixty nine years later. So all the market needs
Speaker 1: is a stalemate, and all it needs is a signal
Speaker 1: that Russia is satiated with Dombas, because after that market
Speaker 1: is going to discount future you know, worst case, what
Speaker 1: does the DMZ look like in the new Ukrainian Russian border.
Speaker 1: I think that you'll have a line of control between
Speaker 1: Ukrainian and Russian forces. And while Ukraine will continue to
Speaker 1: be armed by the West, it's much more different. It's
Speaker 1: a different situation to try to have an offensive operation
Speaker 1: against in trench Russian troops, which means that you have
Speaker 1: a frozen conflict for um, you know, for the rest
Speaker 1: of the decade. Now, what's important about that is not Russia,
Speaker 1: it's not Ukraine, it's not even the US. It's politics
Speaker 1: in Europe. And one of the things that I've emphasized
Speaker 1: is that politics in Europe are going to change. If
Speaker 1: this war gets bogged down in Dombas, If Kiev, Kharkiev, Shernikiv,
Speaker 1: these big cities are not in newspapers anymore, European policy
Speaker 1: makers will will lose the nerve and so you will
Speaker 1: see a toning down of tensions between Russia and Europe. Okay,
Speaker 1: So if it's a toning down to tensions, is it
Speaker 1: also a fraying of the really solid alliance that we
Speaker 1: have seen take shape in a real way in the
Speaker 1: response to the war in Ukraine. You know, I always
Speaker 1: thought that the sort of a transatlantic alliance, this idea
Speaker 1: that you know, we've we've rebuilt the alliances in the West. Um,
Speaker 1: that was always sort of a spur of the moment.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, US has much higher
Speaker 1: risk tolerance to conflict in Europe because ultimately the backlashes
Speaker 1: is happening in Europe. Europeans have much lower risk tolerance
Speaker 1: to that. And so yes, I do think that there's
Speaker 1: going to be a fraying on the alliance between Europe
Speaker 1: and the US. Market will be a stranger wonderful to see.
Speaker 1: Here with clock Tower today, Marco Paprick joins us here
Speaker 1: this is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Thanks for listening. Join
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