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Speaker 1: And now move the sticks with Daniel, Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.

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Speaker 2: What's up, everybody? Welcome to move the sticks? DJ and

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Speaker 2: Buck with you? Buck? What's going on?

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Speaker 1: Man? Man? Not too much? DJ like, uh, we're the

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Speaker 1: fun part of the process. And I can tell you.

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Speaker 1: I know you don't really look at the mentions, but

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Speaker 1: the comments on X and Twitter, you're horrible mock drafts.

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Speaker 1: What are you doing? What are you thinking about? YadA YadA,

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Speaker 1: yada's yeah, it's so funny. Oh, you've been evaluated by people.

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Speaker 1: They say your mock drafts are great. Great. Scouting is

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Speaker 1: not about mock drafting. It's a part of it, but

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Speaker 1: it's those things. I think the thing that I love

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Speaker 1: about this part of it is kind of like the

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Speaker 1: arc that we have when it comes to players. First

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Speaker 1: we love them, then we hate them, then we love

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Speaker 1: them again. And it's trying to make sure that the

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Speaker 1: guys that you were convicted on in January you maintain

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Speaker 1: that conviction that you don't fade during this time of year,

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Speaker 1: when there's no ball being played, no new additional games.

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Speaker 1: Did you still feel good about those guys that you

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Speaker 1: fell in love with? Unless you have character meddle concerns

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Speaker 1: that began to impact the evaluation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's a good reminder for some folks out there.

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Speaker 2: If you start to see some movement down, there's a

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Speaker 2: decent chance it might not just be football stuff because

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Speaker 2: other stuff involved there, So that can that can impact it.

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Speaker 2: I always, I've always struggled to deal with that because, look,

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Speaker 2: I don't have all the information firsthand because I'm not

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Speaker 2: getting to see the you know, the reports and and

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Speaker 2: hear from the doctors and those things. But you get

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Speaker 2: to corroborated a couple of different spots, and I always try,

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Speaker 2: and you know, I would always kind of reserve some

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Speaker 2: spots on my list if like, hey, I acknowledge I

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Speaker 2: like this guy as a player. I'm not just gonna

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Speaker 2: pun them. He's not just going to disappear entirely for

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Speaker 2: my list, but I gotta I gotta move them a

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Speaker 2: little bit, just based off some medical or there's some

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Speaker 2: really tough character stuff that pops in, like you just

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Speaker 2: you can't you can't keep them where you had them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and there was there things that play in the room.

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Speaker 1: We've been in the room where we've seen some of

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Speaker 1: our favorite guys something to pop up, because once we

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Speaker 1: get into April, there's the week where we have the

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Speaker 1: security guy comes in and that's when everyone are kind

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Speaker 1: of biting in THEIL is like, oh not my guy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they got my guy. And Dennis, how much do wedging him?

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Speaker 1: Is he completely off the board? We put him on

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Speaker 1: the backboard, he's in time out? Or is there a

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Speaker 1: value where we can save him and he we won't

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Speaker 1: think about him until day three. If he's on the

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Speaker 1: board day three, a well, throw a fly at him

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Speaker 1: because the risk is worth the reward. And those things

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Speaker 1: and then the medical stuff, you know, like people have

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Speaker 1: spent the off season talking about Max Crosby and the

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Speaker 1: failed physical in Baltimore, But those things pop up also

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Speaker 1: in the draft process. What may be a reject on

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Speaker 1: one board may not be a reject on another board,

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Speaker 1: and so all those things have to factor into those

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Speaker 1: final lists and things that you see.

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Speaker 2: I'll give you an example. I don't need to say

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Speaker 2: the name, but there's a player from last year's draft

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Speaker 2: that was a really really good player on tape and

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Speaker 2: there was some character stuff that was floating around on him.

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Speaker 2: So I started him out at twenty and I you know,

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Speaker 2: I thought he was better than twenty, you know, but

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Speaker 2: I was like, okay, I'll start him there, and then

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Speaker 2: it just kept getting more stuff as you're going through

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Speaker 2: the process. So I ended up being like my thirty

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Speaker 2: third guy on there because I just I wanted him

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Speaker 2: outside of my first round, my top thirty two players.

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Speaker 2: I just didn't feel there was enough. There was enough

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Speaker 2: there to be uncomfortable with it. And it's it's proven

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Speaker 2: to Oh, I know, I know what it is an

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Speaker 2: issue to be an.

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Speaker 1: And I know what it is and that's really really hard, right,

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Speaker 1: So because there are guys and you're trying to play

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Speaker 1: this game and we talk about the ticking time bomb

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Speaker 1: sometimes with character, and there's some places where they've been

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Speaker 1: able to handle character guys better than other places, Like

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Speaker 1: they have an environment, they have a culture that kind

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Speaker 1: of works. But it's really really hard DJ, because I've

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Speaker 1: always been taught like, whatever flaw these guys have coming

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Speaker 1: into the league, it only gets worse with money. You

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Speaker 1: give them more money and more free time. Whatever the

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Speaker 1: issues are, potentially they grow, they're magnified because you have

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Speaker 1: more access to get involved in and even more issues

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Speaker 1: with it. So you have to like, as a decision make.

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Speaker 1: You have to have either a hard line stance like, hey,

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Speaker 1: well you know what, we're just not going to deal.

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Speaker 1: And we may miss out on some players, but we're

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Speaker 1: just not going to deal because that's just not who

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Speaker 1: we are. And a lot of times that comes from

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Speaker 1: ownership down setting what we believe in the parameters in

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Speaker 1: terms of what kind of players we would take and

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Speaker 1: what can we absolutely would not take under any circumstance.

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Speaker 2: And I know there's probably some people watching the listener

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Speaker 2: right now that go, how come you didn't say this?

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, look, I don't trade in that man,

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Speaker 2: Like that's my personal choice. Once I made this move

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Speaker 2: over to the media, we have information guys, we have

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Speaker 2: reporters that is there that's in their lane, that's not

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Speaker 2: in my lane. So I might move a guy down by.

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Speaker 2: I'll never trash a kid's character. I'll never ever do

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Speaker 2: that on air ever. But what I you know, I

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Speaker 2: would couch it and I'll kind of just put it

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Speaker 2: in a universal bucket. If we're in the draft and

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Speaker 2: it's like, how come this guy hasn't gone? And I

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Speaker 2: might and I might use one of two phrases, Oh

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Speaker 2: there's some off the field stuff, yep. And then that's

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Speaker 2: all I'm saying, or I might say. The other thing

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Speaker 2: I might say is, well, you know there's some maturity

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Speaker 2: issues there, but like I'm not going to get into

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Speaker 2: this incident happened with this and this and this and this,

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Speaker 2: Like that's a that's a reporter's job. I'm not gonna

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Speaker 2: I'm not gonna do that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, like the funny part on those

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Speaker 1: things and whatever is trying to figure out why try

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Speaker 1: to steer clear is like, man, we hear so much

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Speaker 1: stuff at this time of year. DJ some for my

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Speaker 1: buddies in the business where we feel like the intel

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Speaker 1: is really solid. Other times it's like from people on

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Speaker 1: the periphery, but it's trying to siminate what's real and

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Speaker 1: what's not. So I tend to steer clear of it

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Speaker 1: because I don't want to say something that turns out

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Speaker 1: to be erroneous but it impacts the player. But we

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Speaker 1: all know that when we talk about character, there are

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Speaker 1: two forms. There's football character. People talk about your work ethic,

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Speaker 1: what you do in the building, what you do with

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Speaker 1: your teammates and those things, and then there's moral character,

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Speaker 1: things that happen off the field, how you are, how

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Speaker 1: you engage your lifestyle, all those other things, and those

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Speaker 1: things are factors and considerations for every team when they're

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Speaker 1: placing people on the board. There's certain things that our

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Speaker 1: no knows and every team has to make a decision

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Speaker 1: on whatether their non negotiables when it comes to character

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Speaker 1: concerns and that, and some seeds are more lenient, some

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Speaker 1: seeds are more strict because of where you fall. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, I've been in places where you you know, you

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Speaker 2: talk about, Okay, we can we can be the right

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Speaker 2: fit for this guy. We can rehabilitate his issues that

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Speaker 2: he's had, and we can help him, which I think

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Speaker 2: is is a noble thing. Everybody needs a second chance

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Speaker 2: in life, and I think that's that's a good thing.

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Speaker 2: But you got to know what you know, what the

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Speaker 2: tolerance level is, and then what.

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Speaker 1: The risk is.

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Speaker 2: And it's like, hey, this other player might be a

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Speaker 2: little bit lesser of a player, but it's close enough.

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Speaker 2: We're We're just not going to take that chance. And

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Speaker 2: I will say talking to more teams and literally some

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Speaker 2: of the better teams in the league, but there I've talked.

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Speaker 2: I was talking to coach the other day and it

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Speaker 2: was about a player, it's a good player in the

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Speaker 2: straft and he's like, now I didn't even watch him.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, you didn't watch this.

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Speaker 2: No, no, I get a list from the GM saying

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Speaker 2: just you're gonna hear these names, but these particular guys

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Speaker 2: not for us.

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Speaker 1: We'll let somebody else do that. And I think there's

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Speaker 1: something too that did you ill even say that? Like

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Speaker 1: even down to the high school level, Like you're beginning

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Speaker 1: to have to make these decisions on what kind of

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Speaker 1: kid do you want to coach? Who do you want

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Speaker 1: in the program? Like what character are you fine with?

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Speaker 1: What is completely unacceptable? And it might not even be

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Speaker 1: like more character where they're guys that run a fout

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Speaker 1: of the law, just maybe like who they are and

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Speaker 1: how they fit in the program. And I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of teams, the more confident you are on your

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Speaker 1: coach in your environment, the more boldly you stand on

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Speaker 1: those decisions about like, yeah, he's not for us, while

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Speaker 1: acknowledging he's a really good player, he just doesn't fit us,

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Speaker 1: and being okay with and being okay with it, I

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Speaker 1: think you have to have a compass. They guys you

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Speaker 1: when it comes to selecting players and character has to

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Speaker 1: be a big factor on it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. I think it's incredibly important. We always

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Speaker 2: say you're all more likely to miss on the person

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Speaker 2: than the player. You see the player most everybody sees

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Speaker 2: a lot of the same things there, But the person

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Speaker 2: there's a wide variety of what makes him tick and

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Speaker 2: what they're going to be like once you get them

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Speaker 2: into the building. A quick pause, Buck won't be right back,

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Speaker 2: all right, Buck, This was a quick topic. I want

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Speaker 2: to hit you out. I know we're kind of pressed

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Speaker 2: for time today. The airport situation is not great right now.

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Speaker 2: I know you're flying, it's we got to make sure. Look,

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Speaker 2: he doesn't get stuck. So a little quick episode. But

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Speaker 2: the thing I want to hit you on. Was thinking

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Speaker 2: about this the other day, but it was a lot

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Speaker 2: about the Ty Simpson discussion that was going on from

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Speaker 2: our friend Dan Orlovski, who's a great buddy, and I've

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Speaker 2: told you like, I was texting with him back and

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Speaker 2: forth for the last month about you know, quarterbacks, and

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Speaker 2: we've been going back. I knew he was he was

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Speaker 2: Ty Simpson over over Mendoza. So we've had a lot

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Speaker 2: of great discussions there. I wish, honestly that we could

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Speaker 2: just post the text message back and forth, because actually

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Speaker 2: it's interesting. But I've been I kind of came to

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Speaker 2: this realization the other day. And I don't know why,

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Speaker 2: I've never really thought about this. But we say we're evaluators,

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Speaker 2: right like it's evaluation. We're evaluators. And I don't know

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Speaker 2: why I've never really thought about the word value kind

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Speaker 2: of that's what that is. It's not it's not he's good,

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Speaker 2: he's bad, I like him, I hate him. It's where

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Speaker 2: is the value for this player? So I don't think

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Speaker 2: that like for in that in that case, I don't

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Speaker 2: think we see the quarterbacks like wildly differently. I think

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Speaker 2: I place more value on the good things with Mendoza

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Speaker 2: than than maybe Dan does. And then Dan places more

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Speaker 2: more value on a limited sample side with ty Simpson,

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Speaker 2: where I I mean that hurts his value, and that's

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Speaker 2: why I see that what he does, I value that

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Speaker 2: type that player as an early second round pick. That's

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Speaker 2: the value to me in my evaluation. That's where I

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Speaker 2: landed on that well.

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Speaker 1: And I think, as we have a bunch of guys

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Speaker 1: who are spiring scouts or guys who are scouts. I

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Speaker 1: think everyone should understand the grade that you give a

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Speaker 1: player is supposed to project how you expect him to

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Speaker 1: play in two to three years. So when we talk

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Speaker 1: about a first round grade, that is someone that we

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Speaker 1: view to be an immediate starter. They're ready to go

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Speaker 1: more plug and play than someone who's a second or

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Speaker 1: third round pick. They may be starters, but it may

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Speaker 1: take time. The Todd Simpson thing is interesting because we're

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Speaker 1: talking about a quarterback with the limited sample size fifteen starts. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we have some durability concerns and those things, and when

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Speaker 1: you put it all together, you're like, Okay, this is

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Speaker 1: what this player is. How long is it going to

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Speaker 1: take him to be ready to be the starter that

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Speaker 1: we want him to be, even though he may start early.

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Speaker 1: Are we talking about like it takes two three years

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Speaker 1: to get him? So the value that you're talking about

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Speaker 1: is due to the projection that we're trying to put

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Speaker 1: down the road in terms of what he needs to

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Speaker 1: get ready to be the player that everyone in the

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Speaker 1: building is going to want. And when the comparison that

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Speaker 1: keeps coming up, like Mendoza and Simpson, Mendoza being number

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Speaker 1: one overall compared to Simpson being top of the second

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Speaker 1: round some people saying bottom of the first round is

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Speaker 1: because the later in the first round are to the

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Speaker 1: good teams, and the good teams who don't have a

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Speaker 1: pressing need to thrust them into the lineup saying we

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Speaker 1: need you to be our franchise quarterback today. In time,

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Speaker 1: maybe Tod Simps can be all those things that people

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Speaker 1: want him to be. But if you're looking at the

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Speaker 1: body of work that he's put up so far, man,

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Speaker 1: it'd be hard pressed to say that this dude is

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Speaker 1: a lot to be a franchise quarterback given what he

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Speaker 1: did in fifteen games and the fall off at the

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Speaker 1: end of the season.

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Speaker 2: Now, I do think it is possible to say I

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Speaker 2: have Fernando Mendoza ranked over him, but I'd rather have

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Speaker 2: Ty Simpson say I can you tell me I can

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Speaker 2: get Ty Simpson? At thirty three we talked, I'd rather

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Speaker 2: have Yeah, that's what's in the room. So it would

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Speaker 2: be like, let me give you a great example. It

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Speaker 2: would be, Okay, guys, we have these needs. Let's say

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Speaker 2: we have quarterback. Let's go quarterback, wide receiver, corner. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So we would go rounds one, two, three, So the

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Speaker 2: quarterbacks would be it would be Mendoza in one. If

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Speaker 2: we have the first pick, it would be Simpson, and

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Speaker 2: two it would be let's say nus Meyer and three

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Speaker 2: and so okay, Well, then the wide receivers. You'd picked

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Speaker 2: the different levels of the receivers and you're trying to

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Speaker 2: build out the best package of that. But obviously quarterback

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Speaker 2: is going to be the most important thing. So I

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Speaker 2: would be of the camp of I'd rather have Mendoza

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Speaker 2: in the bucket. First, give me him in the quarterback pool,

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Speaker 2: and then we'll take what's left from the wide receiver.

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Speaker 2: He is saying, I think, and I'm goingtning want to

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Speaker 2: put words in this my but I like Mendoza, but

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Speaker 2: I would rather have another. Give me, you know, the

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Speaker 2: premiere pass rusher in the draft, and then I could

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Speaker 2: get I'd rather have Ty Simpson's value, yes, where he

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Speaker 2: is in the second round. So I mean, this is

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Speaker 2: really what goes on. And people, I know, Dan got

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Speaker 2: a lot of grief, and I'm like, look, you you

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Speaker 2: would be shocked if you were in draft rooms, you

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Speaker 2: would think that there might be the player with the

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Speaker 2: most universal you know, No, you never have. There's never

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Speaker 2: grades the same all the way across the room. Again,

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Speaker 2: people in there that have different grades. And sometimes in

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Speaker 2: history I remember players being in there and we all

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Speaker 2: kind of roll our eyes, like the old scout in

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Speaker 2: the rooms crazy, and then five years down the road

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Speaker 2: were like, well he actually he was the right one.

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Speaker 1: And I think everyone has to understand that in a

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Speaker 1: draft room, you want to have diverse opinions. You want

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Speaker 1: to have debate because you want to make sure that

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Speaker 1: you don't have any blind spots. If everyone is in

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Speaker 1: agreement all the time, we're not really evaluating. Everyone is

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Speaker 1: really going along to get along. And what we need

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Speaker 1: to be able to do is have respectful debate, come

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Speaker 1: with opinions that are researched and thought out, and give

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Speaker 1: us an opportunity to look at it. So if you

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Speaker 1: told me that hey you're Mendoza fan, say I was

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Speaker 1: a Simpson fan. My job is to present a case

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Speaker 1: for Todds Simpson and to be like, hey, here are

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Speaker 1: the facts, here's what I see, here's why I'm big

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Speaker 1: on him, and then we'll go back and forth or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and then ultimately we'll make a collective decision, and we

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Speaker 1: make that decision. We do it as a team and

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Speaker 1: we move forward. But if we're not able to debate,

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Speaker 1: if we're not able to have different viewpoints on guys

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Speaker 1: that we could sit side by side and look at

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Speaker 1: and have a different take, then what are we doing.

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Speaker 1: It's a scouting thing. It's a science to it. But look, man,

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Speaker 1: it's unpredictable. It's an inodeck science and some things work

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Speaker 1: and something's don't. But we should be able to look

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Speaker 1: at it from different viewpoints.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like the refiner's fire man, Like, you've got

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Speaker 2: to be able to test the testing your metal a

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Speaker 2: little bit here, and if you if you believe in

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Speaker 2: a player, you should be able to You should be

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Speaker 2: able to defend against somebody. You know, you should give us,

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Speaker 2: hold your ground and defend.

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Speaker 1: It, and you should be able to stand on it

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Speaker 1: and be okay and be like, we'll see and I'll

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Speaker 1: say that. This is the other part when it comes

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Speaker 1: to this business scouting. You also have to be okay

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Speaker 1: when saying, hey man, I missed on that, I'm wrong,

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Speaker 1: like whatever that is, because I always find it funny

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Speaker 1: like you said such and such, Okay, I was wrong.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 1: That's that's part of the thing we talk about in

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Speaker 1: the first round, how hard it is to nail the

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Speaker 1: pigs of about fifty percent, Like if you're lucky in

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Speaker 1: the first round and it goes down each round, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to get it right all the time.

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Speaker 1: But what you want to do is do the best

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Speaker 1: that you can with the research that you got and

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Speaker 1: roll with it.

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Speaker 2: It's also like when you're deciding to go for it

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Speaker 2: on fourth down, you know, I'm going a little bit

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Speaker 2: more here in this in this scenario of hey, I'm

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Speaker 2: going with the odds like these are the odds when

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Speaker 2: you're looking at the profiles here, like this is the odds.

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Speaker 2: So I'm gonna if I end up being wrong, I

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Speaker 2: know I had the odds of my favor didn't go

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Speaker 2: my way, but I feel like I feel more confident

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Speaker 2: in that decision making knowing that I've got the odds

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Speaker 2: in my favorite, Whereas there's also times where I see

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Speaker 2: the odds. But man, my gut is strong on this one.

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Speaker 2: I have a firm belief. So but you have to

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Speaker 2: acknowledge it. You have to acknowledge hey, man, like there's

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Speaker 2: this is this is this is not this is this

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Speaker 2: is not an odds on favorite here, but I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: go with my gut, trust my gut, and I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: take this other path.

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Speaker 1: DJ. There's a reason why we have prototypes. There is

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Speaker 1: the reason why we have all that data from all

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Speaker 1: these years about what plays in the league, the size,

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Speaker 1: the numbers, and people love to pick that apart, like

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Speaker 1: why do you can'vin Man, The league says over time,

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Speaker 1: over the history of the league, these are the guys

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Speaker 1: that play in the league for a long time. I'm

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Speaker 1: more likely to go with what the league has said,

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Speaker 1: what has been studied in research, as opposed to trying

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Speaker 1: to be a hero and go on my own and say,

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Speaker 1: oh no, no, this dude is specially it may work, but

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Speaker 1: just think about how odd like the odds of those

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Speaker 1: things working out. Sometimes you better serve to kind of

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Speaker 1: play it safe and be a little more conservative.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that just kind of is what it is there, man.

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Speaker 2: But it's it's a good discussion. And I think, hey,

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Speaker 2: when once we lose debate and discussion, what are we doing?

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Speaker 2: And that's last thing I'll just say, all of this stuff,

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Speaker 2: all of the debate. I texted this to our lobs

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Speaker 2: guest said, Dude, if we were going if we were

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Speaker 2: in high school together. And you're a Phillies fan. I'm

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Speaker 2: a Padres fan. You're making your case for the Phillies.

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Speaker 2: I'm making my case for the Potter's. At the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, guess what it's supposed.

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Speaker 1: To be fun.

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Speaker 2: That's what we're doing. Yeah, somebody's dying here. Nobody's dying here.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's seriously, it's not that serious.

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Speaker 2: As the kids say. It's not that deep.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's Look, we should be able to debate,

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Speaker 1: like that's a part of it. And I'm be honest

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Speaker 1: with you, DJ, Like I used to be in rooms

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Speaker 1: and we used to talk about like, hey mean, I

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Speaker 1: think I'm a throganade today. Let's just make sure like

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Speaker 1: we have someone who can play Devil's advocate, just to

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Speaker 1: make sure that we are truly convicted and what we say.

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Speaker 1: You should be able to fully state your opinion, support it,

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Speaker 1: and when someone challenges you, if you can defend it,

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Speaker 1: it makes you feel even that much better about why

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Speaker 1: you're on the player that you're on in terms of

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Speaker 1: believing in him and why he's gonna.

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Speaker 2: Have success in this league. Yeah, no doubt. All right,

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Speaker 2: Well that's gonna do it. For us appreciate you guys.

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Speaker 2: On a litt abbreviated episode, we're getting Buck to the

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Speaker 2: airport and we'll be back next week with some fresh

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Speaker 2: episodes and move this stay