WEBVTT - Ep. 60: The Deathwind - Lewis Wetzel

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<v Speaker 1>In that time. In those years, people were dying by

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<v Speaker 1>the thousands. Death was just everywhere. Every family was touched

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<v Speaker 1>directly by death. On this episode of the Bargarase podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>will be looking into the life of a man whose

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<v Speaker 1>legacy is wrought with conflict. To Americans who lived in

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<v Speaker 1>the Ohio River Valley, he was a folk hero, but

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<v Speaker 1>to the Native Americans he hated and murdered in cold blood.

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<v Speaker 1>He was known as the Death Wind. I went to

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<v Speaker 1>the Ohio Valley to interview outdoor writer and author Chip

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<v Speaker 1>Gross to learn about the life of Lewis Wetsel. This dark,

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<v Speaker 1>deep dive comes at the request of one Steve Rannella

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<v Speaker 1>of Meat Eater, who is also a guest on this episode,

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<v Speaker 1>and we'll talk about Wetsell's life and the brutality of

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<v Speaker 1>the American Frontier. Lastly, in an effort to understand the

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<v Speaker 1>mind frame of Wetzel, I'll interview mental health professional Zack

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<v Speaker 1>Knucom to learn if our boy Wetzel was truly a sociopath,

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<v Speaker 1>a serial killer, or where his action simply the result

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<v Speaker 1>of a life lived in a war zone. And yep,

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<v Speaker 1>Zack's my brother. I doubt you're gonna want to miss

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<v Speaker 1>this one, and hey, I know a lot of you

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<v Speaker 1>folks let your young kids listen to Bargaras, which I

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely love, but I'll warn you in this episode we

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<v Speaker 1>talked about some pretty gruesome and graphic stuff. There was

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<v Speaker 1>no guilt in his mind, there was no regret. It

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<v Speaker 1>was just I've got to do this, and it continued

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<v Speaker 1>doing it basically until until the day he died. My

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<v Speaker 1>name is Clay Nukem, and this is the Bear Grease Podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search for insight

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<v Speaker 1>and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the story of

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<v Speaker 1>Americans who lived their lives close to the land, presented

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<v Speaker 1>by f HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and

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<v Speaker 1>fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as the

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<v Speaker 1>places we explore. Well. In one of the stories that

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<v Speaker 1>I've written about him, I say, if he were alive today,

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<v Speaker 1>he would be labeled a serial killer, and he really would.

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<v Speaker 1>But he hated Indians. He wasn't killing white people, but

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<v Speaker 1>he was killing Indians. He would kill hostile Indians. He

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<v Speaker 1>would kill you know, not hostile Indians. He just just

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<v Speaker 1>hated them. And where I think this came from is

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<v Speaker 1>when he was younger. When he was just thirteen years old,

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<v Speaker 1>he and his brother, who was eleven, were taken captive

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<v Speaker 1>by Wyandots. He later that night he had his brother

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<v Speaker 1>escaped got back home. But he made a vow to

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<v Speaker 1>himself when he was a kid that he would kill

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<v Speaker 1>Indians anytime he could. And then later in life one

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<v Speaker 1>of his older brothers is killed by Indians. His father

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<v Speaker 1>is killed by Indians. So he had a real vendetta there.

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<v Speaker 1>The Shawnees called him long Knife, the Hurons called him destroyer,

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<v Speaker 1>and the Delawares called him death Wind. The death Wind

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<v Speaker 1>coming moving fast, crawls to him, and he's been a

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<v Speaker 1>looking for the men to burning kill. And when he's coming,

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<v Speaker 1>you can fill the death of chill. And he won't

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<v Speaker 1>stop blowing to his peace and then not his pal.

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<v Speaker 1>In the days of the Sender, we struck to survive

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<v Speaker 1>so that the hunger and me but stay. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>a man with a gun, he's stung too. To the people,

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<v Speaker 1>he was out of the wind. The cultural impact of

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<v Speaker 1>a frontiersman can often be gauged by if they have

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<v Speaker 1>a musical ballad written about them. This is one from

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<v Speaker 1>a band called the back Roads called the Ballad of

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<v Speaker 1>Lewis Wetzel. I love these old songs, and how about

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<v Speaker 1>those backup singers, And I'll give you a digital fifth

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<v Speaker 1>month if you've ever heard this one before. Louis Wetzel

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<v Speaker 1>is a controversial figure, and it's interesting to read about him,

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<v Speaker 1>hear him sung about, and see him honored, and then

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<v Speaker 1>go back into his life to try to make sense

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<v Speaker 1>of it. Many Americans in his time viewed him as

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<v Speaker 1>a hero, but to somebody was a criminal, a murderer,

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<v Speaker 1>a madman. But the confusion isn't surprising. The time period

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<v Speaker 1>when the American frontier was being pushed into the middle

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<v Speaker 1>ground what is now Ohio, Kentucky and Tennessee, heroes and

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<v Speaker 1>mad men could easily be confused because of overlapping traits.

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<v Speaker 1>Westel was by profession and Indian scout or Indian hunter,

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<v Speaker 1>and he became known as the most effective Euro American

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<v Speaker 1>single combat fighter potentially ever. He was believed to have

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<v Speaker 1>killed in one on one tussles as many as a

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<v Speaker 1>hundred Indians in his short forty five year life. He

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<v Speaker 1>claimed to put a bit of silver in his bullet

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<v Speaker 1>to protect him from Indians. Some of his killing was

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<v Speaker 1>done on the clock, and some of it was done

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<v Speaker 1>with a recreational flair. He took scalps with pleasure, but

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<v Speaker 1>in doing so protected his people, elevating him to a

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<v Speaker 1>folk hero. There's a county and a wildlife management area

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<v Speaker 1>named after him in West Virginia, along with multiple businesses, parks,

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<v Speaker 1>and springs that still carries aim to this day. Born

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<v Speaker 1>in seventeen sixty three, Lewis Wetzel and his family did

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<v Speaker 1>some fighting in the Revolutionary War. It's also believed that

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<v Speaker 1>Lewis Wetsell served as a scout on the Lewis and

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<v Speaker 1>Clark expedition in eighteen o four. He served multiple prison

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<v Speaker 1>sentences and escaped once in a coffin. The Feller had

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<v Speaker 1>quite the resume. If you've been following bargaries, you know

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<v Speaker 1>that I'm prone to tell stories with crescendos of redemption.

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<v Speaker 1>This one doesn't have one. It swoops low, arcing towards darkness.

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<v Speaker 1>But lucky for us, darkness creates a context for light

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<v Speaker 1>to be seen, and I think by looking at the

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<v Speaker 1>roughest examples of a time period, it puts into context

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<v Speaker 1>others that we've learned about, like Boone, who compared to

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<v Speaker 1>Wetsel was the Billy Graham of the middle Ground. He

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<v Speaker 1>was a Saint. Chip Gross, the first voice you heard

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<v Speaker 1>on this podcast, has laid the founder sations of what

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<v Speaker 1>built Louis Wetzel. As a kid who was taken captive

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<v Speaker 1>by Indians and later his father and brother were killed

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<v Speaker 1>in a riverside bush whack. Louis made a vow that

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<v Speaker 1>he'd kill every Indian he ever saw as long as

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<v Speaker 1>he lived, and he proved to be a man of

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<v Speaker 1>his word. If you recall on the Mediator podcast, Steve

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<v Speaker 1>Ornella made a public petition to get me to tell

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<v Speaker 1>the story of Louis Wetzel, which I agreed to do

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<v Speaker 1>as long as he agreed to take to heart some

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<v Speaker 1>friendly advice on how to blow a crow. Call here's Steve.

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<v Speaker 1>Steve RONNELLA, how did you get connected and interested in

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<v Speaker 1>the Wetzel brothers. I'll answer that, but first I want

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<v Speaker 1>to thank you for doing this because I want to

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<v Speaker 1>learn more. I want to learn more about the Wetsels.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm fascinated by him. Even though I didn't know about

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<v Speaker 1>him that long ago, I became aware of him in

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<v Speaker 1>this way. I was interviewing a Daniel Boone historian and

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<v Speaker 1>in this we were talking about how Daniel Boone and

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<v Speaker 1>was this this very noble, ethical individual somewhat of opportunistically

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<v Speaker 1>pacifist when he could be. He was a pacifist when

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<v Speaker 1>he could be right. He was a friend of the

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<v Speaker 1>Native Americans when he could be sometimes went out of

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<v Speaker 1>his way to be that way. Talked remorsefully about taking

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<v Speaker 1>an Indian's life unnecessarily right. This historian ted Franklin Blue

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<v Speaker 1>then made a comment to me about some real bad

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<v Speaker 1>dudes and mentions the Wetzel Brothers. I didn't know who

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<v Speaker 1>they were, but a body of mine then text me,

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<v Speaker 1>how they do you not know about the wet Cels.

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<v Speaker 1>The Indians called him the death Wind, And that's when

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<v Speaker 1>I decided to start lobbying you to do a thing

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<v Speaker 1>about the wets You'll hear us throughout this referring to

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<v Speaker 1>the Wetzel Brothers. But the most famous Wetzel, and the

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<v Speaker 1>one we're talking about the most is gonna be Lewis Wetzel.

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<v Speaker 1>Lewis was born on a section of the Wilderness Road

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<v Speaker 1>in West Virginia in seventeen sixty three, wrapped in a

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<v Speaker 1>union jack flagged his father and mother were on their

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<v Speaker 1>way to homestead on Big Wheeling Creek in the panhandle

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<v Speaker 1>of West Virginia, fourteen miles from the Ohio River. It

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<v Speaker 1>seems your life is usually more exciting if you're from

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<v Speaker 1>the pan handle of a state. Nine states have panhandles.

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<v Speaker 1>That's not relevant. His father was considered by many to

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<v Speaker 1>be reckless or maybe just naive because of how far

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<v Speaker 1>he settled from permanent white settlements. He was way back

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<v Speaker 1>on the very edge of the frontier, and it was

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<v Speaker 1>a time of great instability and constant guerrilla warfare between

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<v Speaker 1>whites and Native Americans. The wet Cels ended up having

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<v Speaker 1>seven children, and they had seven peaceful years before Wyan

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<v Speaker 1>Dots burned their cabin and captured Lewis AND's younger brother, Jacob.

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<v Speaker 1>Four of seven Wetzel children would be captured by Indians

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<v Speaker 1>at one point in their life, and a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>them got captured more than once. That's an incredible stat

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<v Speaker 1>Here's the story of Louis's beginning, and you begin to

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<v Speaker 1>see the inklings of the young Louis's uncanny ability to

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<v Speaker 1>navigate backwoods life. So in seventeen seventy six, he and

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<v Speaker 1>his younger brother, Jacob, who was eleven were kidnapped by

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<v Speaker 1>Native Americans. They're working corn and the boys had seen

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<v Speaker 1>a black bear. They had reported seeing a black bear

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<v Speaker 1>around the cornfields, and Louis thought the black bear looked funny,

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<v Speaker 1>and so he goes back and tells his dad Martin.

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<v Speaker 1>The older brother says, saw bear, and Louis goes, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think it was a bear. I think it was

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<v Speaker 1>an Indian in a bear skin. And it kind of

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<v Speaker 1>red flagged the family. Well, sure enough, that night they

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<v Speaker 1>hear something and they're kind of on red alert and

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<v Speaker 1>they look outside and they see an Indian coming up

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<v Speaker 1>to him, and the dad shoots and kills the Indian.

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<v Speaker 1>This isn't when he gets kidnapped, Well, it's connected to that.

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<v Speaker 1>That brings retribution from the other Native Americans. Within a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of weeks or a couple of days, he and

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<v Speaker 1>his brother Wetstle thirteen, Jacob Levin are kidnapped, straight up,

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<v Speaker 1>kidnapped by and that's when he got shot. He was

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<v Speaker 1>in a cornfield and a bullet grazed his chest. He

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<v Speaker 1>gets caught and they stay in captivity for two days

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<v Speaker 1>before he makes a pretty daring escape and and he

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<v Speaker 1>showed a lot of intuition inside of situations with Native Americans,

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<v Speaker 1>even from when he was young. Like they had him

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<v Speaker 1>tethered with like leather straps, and they had him tethered

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<v Speaker 1>up at night, he and the brother together and they

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<v Speaker 1>started moaning about the straps being too tight. The guys

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<v Speaker 1>come over and loosen their straps. Long story short, they

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<v Speaker 1>escape after the guys are all asleep. This it sounds

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<v Speaker 1>like five or six guys. It's a detail about this

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<v Speaker 1>escape that that starts really speaking to his sort of

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<v Speaker 1>coolness and also just kind of the person he was

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<v Speaker 1>where the Indians had taken his father's rifle and here

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<v Speaker 1>he is like at any second, as far as he knows,

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<v Speaker 1>he's gonna get tom a hawker or taken and has

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<v Speaker 1>the has the run a gauntlet. You could get killed

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<v Speaker 1>doing that, Like this guy has no idea. He gets away,

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<v Speaker 1>but they don't want to leave without recovering their old

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<v Speaker 1>man's gun. And there's like a detail too that the

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<v Speaker 1>Indians had moccasins that they were drying by the fire,

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<v Speaker 1>but they shrunk up. The boys couldn't get the moccasins

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<v Speaker 1>on their feet and had to go down to the

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<v Speaker 1>creek stole the moccasins, but then had to go down

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<v Speaker 1>to the creek and soak those buckskin, not moccasins, in

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<v Speaker 1>order to get him stretched out enough to pull him

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<v Speaker 1>over to their feet and then take off right. So

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<v Speaker 1>rather running off free, running off barefoot without the old

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<v Speaker 1>man's gun, they get free, get their old man's gun,

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<v Speaker 1>get some footwear, and then take off well. And the

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<v Speaker 1>story was he had to go back, so they they

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<v Speaker 1>escaped and actually left the camp and in they realized

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<v Speaker 1>they didn't have shoes. This is a version Almontel's. They

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have shoes, they didn't have the gun, and they

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<v Speaker 1>go and he and Wetzel sneaks back into the camp

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<v Speaker 1>and gets the stuff and comes back out, which is risky.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, like the guy was laying on something,

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<v Speaker 1>you have to kind of get it off under his head.

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<v Speaker 1>Almond didn't go into that that detail, but that was

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<v Speaker 1>the foundation, which would be the vowel that Lewis Wetzel

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<v Speaker 1>made as a young boy that he was gonna kill

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<v Speaker 1>every you know, Native American that he came in contact with,

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<v Speaker 1>and not in an Don't it sounds so weird to

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<v Speaker 1>seeing an organized fashion, not with the military, not in

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<v Speaker 1>support of like military campaigns, not in support of any

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<v Speaker 1>kind of strategy. It was just like in and of itself,

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<v Speaker 1>even to kill allies. Stuff that happens in a person's

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<v Speaker 1>childhood is always an important player in their life, whether

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<v Speaker 1>good or bad, were foreigned by our experiences, and I

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<v Speaker 1>do believe that we have a choice of how we

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<v Speaker 1>respond to the good and the bad. Later in the

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<v Speaker 1>podcast will hear from a mental health professional on this stuff.

0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.960
<v Speaker 1>Here's the account of the first time Louis killed a

0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:18.080
<v Speaker 1>Native American. As a matter of fact, he killed three

0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:22.280
<v Speaker 1>when Louis was sixteen years old, So this is three

0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:24.880
<v Speaker 1>years after he and his brother Jacob had been captured.

0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.320
<v Speaker 1>They went on a mission with a bunch of adults

0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.680
<v Speaker 1>to retrieve some stolen horses. So a group of Indians

0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.120
<v Speaker 1>that stole horses. His dad's horse was in the mix,

0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.080
<v Speaker 1>and so they go out. The guy's getting a little

0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:41.760
<v Speaker 1>shoot out with the Indians, and the adults retreat and

0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.280
<v Speaker 1>Wetzel goes back and it's like, what are y'all doing?

0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.000
<v Speaker 1>And they go, well, YadA, YadA, YadA, and he goes, well,

0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:52.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm going back in and he basically employed a tactic

0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.360
<v Speaker 1>that he used most of his life in certain situations,

0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:59.880
<v Speaker 1>and that tactic was they called it being treated when

0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:05.640
<v Speaker 1>in the Indians would retreat but hide and be waiting

0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.720
<v Speaker 1>for you. And basically he knew where these Indians were

0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.240
<v Speaker 1>hiding out, and he snuck in there, and he put

0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.280
<v Speaker 1>his hat on the end of his gun and leaned

0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:17.840
<v Speaker 1>it out from behind the tree. He knew that they

0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:21.920
<v Speaker 1>were watching him, and when they shot and hit his hat,

0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.760
<v Speaker 1>they thought they killed him, and so they exposed themselves.

0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.320
<v Speaker 1>And he had a loaded musket. So a one shot

0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:31.640
<v Speaker 1>musket was a real big deal back in those days,

0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:34.040
<v Speaker 1>because you pretty much had one shot and then you

0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:38.240
<v Speaker 1>had forty five seconds to two minutes of loading a gun,

0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:41.720
<v Speaker 1>depending on how fast you were. So they shot, they

0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.400
<v Speaker 1>thought they killed the guy, and then Wetzel lets him

0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.560
<v Speaker 1>get in close, steps out. It's two Indians, shoots one

0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.360
<v Speaker 1>in the chest and takes off running. And what they

0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:52.360
<v Speaker 1>didn't know, and what he became known for was he

0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:57.240
<v Speaker 1>could reload on the run. And he became famous throughout

0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:59.840
<v Speaker 1>that part of the world in the Native American tribes

0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.760
<v Speaker 1>for always having his gun loaded. But he could he

0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.400
<v Speaker 1>could load on the run, and so he runs and

0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:07.920
<v Speaker 1>the these guys already shot their bullet, and so he

0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.160
<v Speaker 1>takes after him, and then he runs for however long,

0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:12.560
<v Speaker 1>and then his turns with a loaded gun and shoots,

0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.040
<v Speaker 1>and the they've never seen anything like that. And so

0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.520
<v Speaker 1>he came back with all these grown men. It was like,

0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:21.160
<v Speaker 1>holy cow, who is this kid? Came back with scalps.

0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:29.040
<v Speaker 1>They they collected scalps like trophies. I don't want to

0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.920
<v Speaker 1>glaze over the act of scalping a dead enemy. I

0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.520
<v Speaker 1>think it's easy to go numb to the brutality of

0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:39.680
<v Speaker 1>the act. Maybe it's Hollywood books. I don't know, but

0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:44.360
<v Speaker 1>scalping started in Native American warfare, and then as Europeans

0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:48.280
<v Speaker 1>got involved, many took up the practice. Perhaps it was

0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:53.680
<v Speaker 1>unrestrained retribution, or maybe it was to communicate with their

0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:58.280
<v Speaker 1>enemies in a way that they could understand. Anyhow, the

0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.400
<v Speaker 1>sixteen year old Wetsel took three e scalps that day

0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:06.160
<v Speaker 1>by what would become known as Wessel Spring near St. Clair'sville, Ohio.

0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:10.600
<v Speaker 1>Lewis's success in guerrilla warfare was that he could load

0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:16.400
<v Speaker 1>his gun extremely quickly. Ship Gross is from the Ohio Valley.

0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:20.160
<v Speaker 1>He's retired. Game Warden authored multiple books and has had

0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:24.119
<v Speaker 1>over one thousand of his articles published about hunting shooting

0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:28.600
<v Speaker 1>in Frontiersman. Years ago he took an interest in Lewis Wetzel,

0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:32.720
<v Speaker 1>and here he'll give us a critical detail of how

0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:38.120
<v Speaker 1>he was able to reload so fast. Now Here, here's

0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.960
<v Speaker 1>another wilderness skill that he had, and not many other

0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.880
<v Speaker 1>frontiersman had it. Simon Kenton could do it. A few

0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.639
<v Speaker 1>others could do it, but reloading on the run, and

0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:49.600
<v Speaker 1>he was very very good at this. And what he

0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:51.840
<v Speaker 1>would do he was he would take two or three

0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:55.600
<v Speaker 1>lead bullets and actually put him in his mouth. Believe

0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.440
<v Speaker 1>it or not. Now this was before they knew much

0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.000
<v Speaker 1>about lead poisoning. I'm sure it. He didn't seem to care.

0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:04.239
<v Speaker 1>He would carry these extra bullets in his mouth and

0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:07.480
<v Speaker 1>that would help him reload much quicker on the run.

0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Some historians in the past have written that Lewis got

0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:14.760
<v Speaker 1>lead poisoning from all the mouth bullet stuff and it

0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:18.159
<v Speaker 1>turned him into a madman. Though that can't be healthy.

0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.199
<v Speaker 1>I don't think that's the only culprit to his obsession

0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:26.399
<v Speaker 1>with killing. Here's chip with more unloading a musket fast.

0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.320
<v Speaker 1>Once you're the firearm is empty, what you have to

0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:32.800
<v Speaker 1>do is you have to pour powder down the barrel

0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:35.760
<v Speaker 1>and then you step one. That step one. Step two

0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.000
<v Speaker 1>is then you have to take a bullet which was

0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:42.760
<v Speaker 1>a round ball, lead ball, and drive it down against

0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:45.600
<v Speaker 1>that powder with a ramrod. And then the last step

0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.520
<v Speaker 1>is to take a small amount of powder and put

0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.879
<v Speaker 1>it in the pan, the firing pan. That's not easy

0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:54.639
<v Speaker 1>to do, and then you have to hope that everything

0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:56.560
<v Speaker 1>is going to work when you pull a trigger, because

0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.240
<v Speaker 1>a lot of times a gun might fire called a

0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.320
<v Speaker 1>flash in the pain in, but the powder in the

0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:05.400
<v Speaker 1>barrel doesn't go off, and sometimes that did. That did

0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:07.439
<v Speaker 1>happen with him, And then you're down to hand to

0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:09.720
<v Speaker 1>hand combat, and he was good at that too. He

0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:13.240
<v Speaker 1>had all the wilderness skills. You know, it's interesting now

0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:16.240
<v Speaker 1>we're all used to firearms, and we're used to firearms

0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:20.560
<v Speaker 1>that shoot cartridges that are essentially fail proof. Just pull

0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:22.480
<v Speaker 1>the trigger and a gun goes off. That that's no

0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:26.040
<v Speaker 1>longer a question. But during this time period, a warrior's

0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:31.520
<v Speaker 1>world was dominated by this possibility that his gun wouldn't

0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:34.200
<v Speaker 1>go off when he absolutely needed it to. Number one,

0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:38.080
<v Speaker 1>and then number two, he was dominated by this limitation

0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:42.320
<v Speaker 1>of time. You get one shot, boomb and then you

0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.720
<v Speaker 1>have to go through a pretty detailed sequence of events

0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:49.040
<v Speaker 1>to get it loaded again. And so that was actually

0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.800
<v Speaker 1>a tactic of Wetzel in his fighting, was that he

0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:55.719
<v Speaker 1>could reload so quick that the Indians knew that if

0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.760
<v Speaker 1>a guy shot, there was a span of time when

0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.199
<v Speaker 1>he couldn't shoot again, and they would rush in. They

0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.400
<v Speaker 1>would they would draw the volley of their their enemies

0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.159
<v Speaker 1>and then they would say, Okay, now we've got a

0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:10.480
<v Speaker 1>minute before they can reload, and we're gonna go in

0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.160
<v Speaker 1>and take him hand to hand or whatever. And that's

0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:16.040
<v Speaker 1>where Louis Wetzel, I mean, that was his trick, was

0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:19.440
<v Speaker 1>that he he could I mean, it would be interesting

0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:23.000
<v Speaker 1>to actually have the data on it. I mean, could

0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:25.600
<v Speaker 1>he do it? Could he do it twice as quick?

0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:30.560
<v Speaker 1>Could he do it? Of the time? Louis being able

0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:34.119
<v Speaker 1>to reload his gun fast was probably his most valued skill.

0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:39.520
<v Speaker 1>I want to read you an excerpt from the book

0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:44.040
<v Speaker 1>The Life in Times of Lewis Wetzel by C. B. Almond.

0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:48.919
<v Speaker 1>This book was published in nineteen thirty one. At the

0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:52.399
<v Speaker 1>age of seventeen, Wetzel maybe said to have entered on

0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:56.840
<v Speaker 1>his life's work, that of hunting Indians the warfare with

0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:01.520
<v Speaker 1>the Reds was not restrained by proclamations or politicians. It

0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:05.160
<v Speaker 1>was a free fight. Anybody could enter and keep at

0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:08.119
<v Speaker 1>it as long as he liked. The rules were simple

0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:13.880
<v Speaker 1>and consisted of get his scalp. Wetstel was a stern, sober,

0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:18.399
<v Speaker 1>silent sort of person, never boasting of his exploits, but

0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:21.680
<v Speaker 1>pursuing his way with the tennacy, which made his name

0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:24.600
<v Speaker 1>as much feared by the foe as they were hated

0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:28.199
<v Speaker 1>by him. He shunned the company of other people and

0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.439
<v Speaker 1>was never so content as when roaming the forest like

0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:37.000
<v Speaker 1>a wild animal. Wetzel's picturesque appearance, joined with his growing

0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:41.680
<v Speaker 1>reputation for daring, added to his popularity with border folks.

0:21:42.320 --> 0:21:46.679
<v Speaker 1>Five ft ten inches tall, unusually strong and well developed

0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:50.679
<v Speaker 1>in arms and shoulders, slight and active of limb, with

0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:55.760
<v Speaker 1>piercing black eyes, scowling brow, and black hair, which, when

0:21:55.840 --> 0:21:59.720
<v Speaker 1>combed out, hung to his knees. This ranger was the

0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.600
<v Speaker 1>ject of much approval on part of the young ladies

0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:07.480
<v Speaker 1>at the settlement. Graceful, morose, fascinating, and blind to their charms,

0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:13.119
<v Speaker 1>the dashing youth doubtless reeked considerable havoc among the feminine

0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:17.400
<v Speaker 1>hearts not recorded by tradition or listed in printed tales

0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:21.040
<v Speaker 1>of the Frontier. His true love was the long trail

0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:27.239
<v Speaker 1>and the thrill of the encounter. End of quote. The

0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:30.680
<v Speaker 1>intel that we have about Wetzel is sparse, and many

0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:35.080
<v Speaker 1>authors have published contradicting stories. There are three main books

0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:39.000
<v Speaker 1>about Wetzel that I found. One is CB Almond's book

0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:41.560
<v Speaker 1>The Life and Times of Louis Wetzel, which I thought

0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:45.600
<v Speaker 1>was pretty good. Another by Robert Myers, published in eighteen ninety,

0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:49.399
<v Speaker 1>was called Lewis Wetzel, which honestly I didn't think was

0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:52.600
<v Speaker 1>that well written, sorry man. And the latest was in

0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:57.080
<v Speaker 1>nine called That Dark and Bloody River by the famed

0:22:57.160 --> 0:23:01.119
<v Speaker 1>author Alan Eckhart. It's not all out Wetzel, but he

0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:05.280
<v Speaker 1>talks about the Wetzel brothers. Lastly, the author who's attributed

0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:09.080
<v Speaker 1>with making Lewis's nickname the Death Wind famous was a

0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:12.920
<v Speaker 1>novelist named Zane Gray, which in his book The Spirit

0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:17.680
<v Speaker 1>of the Border used the nickname because Gray's novels, which

0:23:17.680 --> 0:23:21.639
<v Speaker 1>were fiction, used the Wetsel brothers as characters, which is

0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:26.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of confusing, so it's not a clear where the

0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:30.040
<v Speaker 1>nickname came from. But a poem called the Ballad of

0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:33.560
<v Speaker 1>Lewis Wetzel, written by Glenn Baker, gave me the only

0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:37.520
<v Speaker 1>true citation of the Death Wind that I could find.

0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:42.240
<v Speaker 1>Chip is a native Ohioan and he has studied Wetzell

0:23:42.280 --> 0:23:45.960
<v Speaker 1>a lot. And here's him describing what he knows about

0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:51.800
<v Speaker 1>the nickname the Death Wind. And the death Wind name

0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:55.840
<v Speaker 1>was kind of interesting because where that comes from is

0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:58.679
<v Speaker 1>you probably know, if you take a muzzle loading rifle

0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:00.880
<v Speaker 1>and you blow over the into the barrel, you get

0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:04.600
<v Speaker 1>kind of a hollow sound, like blowing over a bottle,

0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:07.479
<v Speaker 1>you know, empty bottle, that type of thing. And he

0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:10.040
<v Speaker 1>would he would use that to mess with the Indians

0:24:10.400 --> 0:24:12.760
<v Speaker 1>if he got up to a group of Indians, maybe

0:24:12.760 --> 0:24:16.440
<v Speaker 1>an Indian camp, and there was too many for them

0:24:16.520 --> 0:24:19.399
<v Speaker 1>for him to take on. He would get within hearing

0:24:19.440 --> 0:24:21.880
<v Speaker 1>distance and he would blow across the top of that

0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:25.480
<v Speaker 1>muzzle to let him know I'm here, you know, and

0:24:25.520 --> 0:24:27.679
<v Speaker 1>I may be coming for you tonight, and me may

0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:29.840
<v Speaker 1>the next night and maybe down the road, you know,

0:24:29.960 --> 0:24:33.359
<v Speaker 1>two or three months. And so that's where death Wind comes.

0:24:34.160 --> 0:24:37.800
<v Speaker 1>And another part he grew his hair very long. He

0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:40.719
<v Speaker 1>was a big man. Crew his hair which was totally

0:24:40.760 --> 0:24:43.399
<v Speaker 1>black as long as he could, which was knee length,

0:24:44.119 --> 0:24:47.320
<v Speaker 1>and he was basically taunting the Indians, come take it

0:24:47.440 --> 0:24:52.760
<v Speaker 1>from me if he can, and none ever did. It's

0:24:52.800 --> 0:24:57.359
<v Speaker 1>striking to imagine a buckskin frontiersman with cold black hair

0:24:57.520 --> 0:25:01.280
<v Speaker 1>down to his calves, and apparently he wore his hair

0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:05.560
<v Speaker 1>this long until his death. Glenn Baker's poem agrees with

0:25:05.680 --> 0:25:08.920
<v Speaker 1>chips version of what death wind means. But I've heard

0:25:09.000 --> 0:25:12.840
<v Speaker 1>three possible sources of the nickname. Number one being blowing

0:25:12.960 --> 0:25:16.560
<v Speaker 1>over the end of a muzzle to intimidate Indians. Number two,

0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:20.439
<v Speaker 1>someone inferred that he had a trademark screamed that he

0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:24.200
<v Speaker 1>made when he killed an Indian, and the escape ees

0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:28.080
<v Speaker 1>said it was like a death wind. Lastly, some have

0:25:28.119 --> 0:25:31.640
<v Speaker 1>thought it just meant he swept quietly through the woods,

0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:36.840
<v Speaker 1>dealing out death like a death wind. Here's Steve on

0:25:37.040 --> 0:25:41.760
<v Speaker 1>Lewis's start as an Indian scout. At age seventeen, he

0:25:41.840 --> 0:25:45.600
<v Speaker 1>became a full time Indian scout. It was like an employment.

0:25:45.800 --> 0:25:48.119
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how he gets the settlements would have

0:25:48.280 --> 0:25:52.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, you hear him described as militia, and then

0:25:52.280 --> 0:25:56.080
<v Speaker 1>there was so you had like these informal militias. Then

0:25:56.119 --> 0:25:59.680
<v Speaker 1>you had rangers which were more tightly like like Samuel

0:25:59.680 --> 0:26:03.400
<v Speaker 1>Bray who was a contemporary at Lewis wetzel Um who

0:26:03.720 --> 0:26:07.960
<v Speaker 1>was under employ of the army, like underemployee with the army,

0:26:08.000 --> 0:26:10.840
<v Speaker 1>but ran a group of frontiersmen who were known as rangers.

0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:13.960
<v Speaker 1>But these were guys who were just on the lookout

0:26:14.320 --> 0:26:17.600
<v Speaker 1>for raiding parties. And the thing they might do is

0:26:17.640 --> 0:26:21.159
<v Speaker 1>they might just travel the north shore or the south

0:26:21.240 --> 0:26:26.160
<v Speaker 1>shore of the Ohio and pick up tracks going one way,

0:26:26.400 --> 0:26:28.720
<v Speaker 1>follow those tracks to see if they had stolen anything,

0:26:29.240 --> 0:26:34.560
<v Speaker 1>intercept tracks of Indians that were coming south, and alert villages,

0:26:34.880 --> 0:26:39.040
<v Speaker 1>alert settlements of what's coming. If there was were kidnappings

0:26:39.720 --> 0:26:43.000
<v Speaker 1>or burning of buildings, they might get on the trail

0:26:43.160 --> 0:26:46.919
<v Speaker 1>and follow to go get retribution. And at any given

0:26:46.960 --> 0:26:51.720
<v Speaker 1>time there were any any small collection of these groups

0:26:51.720 --> 0:26:55.640
<v Speaker 1>out doing like the scouting or these groups, these frontiers

0:26:55.800 --> 0:26:58.879
<v Speaker 1>might also ally themselves with the military, and when the

0:26:58.920 --> 0:27:01.800
<v Speaker 1>military is going to do like a formal campaign, they're

0:27:01.840 --> 0:27:05.119
<v Speaker 1>out ahead to find where they're camped to make sure

0:27:05.160 --> 0:27:08.320
<v Speaker 1>they don't fall into ambushes. Um saying, like like a

0:27:08.640 --> 0:27:12.919
<v Speaker 1>in Vietnam, the long range reconnaissance patrollers, they were just

0:27:13.119 --> 0:27:18.560
<v Speaker 1>out in the jungle, listening, looking, gathering intelligence. When you

0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:23.000
<v Speaker 1>understand that too, it helps understand why these guys. You

0:27:23.040 --> 0:27:24.919
<v Speaker 1>give some context for why they were doing what they

0:27:24.920 --> 0:27:28.320
<v Speaker 1>were doing, and why that these guys would be potential

0:27:28.640 --> 0:27:32.800
<v Speaker 1>folk heroes, not even folk heroes, like just legitimate cultural heroes,

0:27:33.240 --> 0:27:37.080
<v Speaker 1>because they were the ones that were protecting quote unquote

0:27:37.880 --> 0:27:44.159
<v Speaker 1>the first line of defense and also delivered. Imagine you're

0:27:44.240 --> 0:27:47.480
<v Speaker 1>a Euro American, you're a white setter at this time,

0:27:48.400 --> 0:27:51.679
<v Speaker 1>your child's abducted, and someone delivers your child back to you.

0:27:52.440 --> 0:27:55.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's one of the things that made Boon famous.

0:27:55.400 --> 0:27:59.920
<v Speaker 1>It's the most kind of like iconic hero tales what's

0:28:00.200 --> 0:28:03.760
<v Speaker 1>never looked back after becoming an Indian scout. Here will

0:28:03.840 --> 0:28:06.240
<v Speaker 1>learn some of his exploits that made him a folk

0:28:06.320 --> 0:28:11.720
<v Speaker 1>hero of the region amongst the whites. Wetzel, there's two

0:28:12.000 --> 0:28:16.399
<v Speaker 1>times that he was documented on having saved somebody's wife,

0:28:17.160 --> 0:28:19.200
<v Speaker 1>and it was the same story. Both times, He's out

0:28:19.520 --> 0:28:22.479
<v Speaker 1>hunting with somebody or traveling with a man and the

0:28:22.520 --> 0:28:25.800
<v Speaker 1>woman was back home, you know, with a family. Two

0:28:25.880 --> 0:28:30.240
<v Speaker 1>different times he went back with the guy and found

0:28:30.280 --> 0:28:34.359
<v Speaker 1>the cabin burned and the family gone. And usually the

0:28:35.040 --> 0:28:39.080
<v Speaker 1>usually the women were spared, and the children also painting

0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:42.000
<v Speaker 1>an idea for just the brutality of the era. The

0:28:42.360 --> 0:28:45.600
<v Speaker 1>first guy, his last name was Touch. He was hunting

0:28:45.600 --> 0:28:48.720
<v Speaker 1>with his a young guy, and I don't even think

0:28:48.720 --> 0:28:51.840
<v Speaker 1>they had kids. But there was an extended family there

0:28:51.880 --> 0:28:55.680
<v Speaker 1>with some men and the man's new wife. And they

0:28:55.920 --> 0:28:58.200
<v Speaker 1>they they're going to have dinner, you know. I mean,

0:28:58.240 --> 0:29:01.920
<v Speaker 1>they're like coming home. And they get there and they

0:29:01.960 --> 0:29:05.200
<v Speaker 1>see smoke, and they come and they find the dead

0:29:05.280 --> 0:29:09.680
<v Speaker 1>bodies of all the men scattered about, and the hogs

0:29:09.840 --> 0:29:13.520
<v Speaker 1>had gotten loose their their tame hogs and had eaten

0:29:13.560 --> 0:29:18.040
<v Speaker 1>the bodies, like had just mangled the bodies. And then

0:29:18.080 --> 0:29:20.840
<v Speaker 1>but the woman is missing, and Lewis wets I mean

0:29:20.840 --> 0:29:23.800
<v Speaker 1>it sounds like a movie, you know, Louis Wetstell finds

0:29:23.880 --> 0:29:28.280
<v Speaker 1>the tracks of a size six woman shoe going off

0:29:28.320 --> 0:29:31.360
<v Speaker 1>with the moccasins, you know, and so they know that

0:29:31.480 --> 0:29:34.320
<v Speaker 1>she's alive. And so it takes them two days, but

0:29:34.400 --> 0:29:38.160
<v Speaker 1>they catch them and kill the Indians and save the lady.

0:29:38.680 --> 0:29:47.480
<v Speaker 1>And I mean that was a common story. It's hard

0:29:47.520 --> 0:29:50.240
<v Speaker 1>for us to put ourselves into the shoes of people

0:29:50.320 --> 0:29:54.440
<v Speaker 1>who lived in an era with such brutality. Here Chip

0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:57.720
<v Speaker 1>will tell us the story, showing us that Louis's killing

0:29:57.800 --> 0:30:02.040
<v Speaker 1>of Indians was motivated by far more than it being

0:30:02.200 --> 0:30:07.760
<v Speaker 1>his employment. He was cold blooded. There was a time

0:30:07.800 --> 0:30:11.680
<v Speaker 1>he was living in the Marietta area, which Mariette is

0:30:11.680 --> 0:30:13.600
<v Speaker 1>a town right on the Ohio River. It's the oldest

0:30:13.640 --> 0:30:15.640
<v Speaker 1>town in Ohio. I think it's the oldest town in

0:30:15.640 --> 0:30:20.080
<v Speaker 1>the Northwest Territory. At one point, the people there were

0:30:20.120 --> 0:30:23.160
<v Speaker 1>getting tired of the Indian wars and so forth, and

0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:27.040
<v Speaker 1>they decided, we have to try and settle this, you know,

0:30:27.120 --> 0:30:31.000
<v Speaker 1>make a treaty or do something. So they got ahold

0:30:31.160 --> 0:30:34.320
<v Speaker 1>of a bunch of tribes and they said, let's get together.

0:30:34.480 --> 0:30:37.880
<v Speaker 1>Let's let's have a piece of about three months. And

0:30:38.000 --> 0:30:41.320
<v Speaker 1>the tribes agreed, and they camped about two miles north

0:30:41.320 --> 0:30:43.840
<v Speaker 1>of the river and would walk back and forth to

0:30:43.920 --> 0:30:46.520
<v Speaker 1>Marietta for meetings and that kind of thing. Well, there

0:30:46.600 --> 0:30:50.560
<v Speaker 1>was one Seneca chief who always walked by himself, which

0:30:50.600 --> 0:30:53.080
<v Speaker 1>was not good. Guess who was living there and noticed

0:30:53.120 --> 0:30:56.640
<v Speaker 1>this Lewis. And Lewis knew that these were, you know,

0:30:56.720 --> 0:30:59.680
<v Speaker 1>not hostile Indians at this time, but he didn't care.

0:31:00.440 --> 0:31:04.080
<v Speaker 1>So at one one day he lays for this chief,

0:31:04.840 --> 0:31:08.240
<v Speaker 1>and as soon as he got within you know, fifty yards,

0:31:08.320 --> 0:31:11.440
<v Speaker 1>he steps out from cover, didn't say anything, just pulls

0:31:11.480 --> 0:31:14.280
<v Speaker 1>his rifle up and shoots and hits him in the chest.

0:31:14.720 --> 0:31:17.520
<v Speaker 1>Of course, the chief goes down, he runs up, he

0:31:17.640 --> 0:31:22.120
<v Speaker 1>scouts him, runs off, and everybody knows who this guy.

0:31:22.200 --> 0:31:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Had long black hair, he had a particular colored hat,

0:31:25.440 --> 0:31:29.000
<v Speaker 1>blah blah blah. So they go grab Lewis. They put

0:31:29.080 --> 0:31:31.959
<v Speaker 1>him on trial and they bluntly asked him, Lewis, did

0:31:32.000 --> 0:31:34.880
<v Speaker 1>you did you kill this Indian? Yes? I did, and

0:31:34.960 --> 0:31:38.040
<v Speaker 1>he he wasn't didn't feel guilty about it, no remorse,

0:31:38.120 --> 0:31:42.400
<v Speaker 1>no nothing. So the judgment was, well, you're you're going

0:31:42.440 --> 0:31:47.400
<v Speaker 1>to hang for this. What I haven't told you yet

0:31:47.600 --> 0:31:50.320
<v Speaker 1>is that this wasn't the first time that Lewis killed

0:31:50.440 --> 0:31:56.400
<v Speaker 1>an emissary of peace. In Lewis Tomahawk, the Delaware chief

0:31:56.400 --> 0:32:00.160
<v Speaker 1>that was involved in peace talks, but the war, combined

0:32:00.200 --> 0:32:04.320
<v Speaker 1>with weak Backwoods justice, meant that nothing was done to Lewis.

0:32:05.000 --> 0:32:08.360
<v Speaker 1>The murder Chip told us about took place in Sight nine,

0:32:08.640 --> 0:32:11.880
<v Speaker 1>and Lewis was sentenced to hang for the murder of

0:32:11.920 --> 0:32:16.360
<v Speaker 1>the Seneca chief to Gunta. However, he broke out of

0:32:16.480 --> 0:32:21.160
<v Speaker 1>jail two consecutive times and was recaptured, but was ultimately

0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:25.320
<v Speaker 1>released and functionally acquitted of the murder when the famous

0:32:25.360 --> 0:32:30.720
<v Speaker 1>backwoodsman Simon Kenton brought a large gang of Ruffians to

0:32:30.800 --> 0:32:34.840
<v Speaker 1>the jail and demanded Wetsel be left free. Are they

0:32:34.960 --> 0:32:39.400
<v Speaker 1>taken by force? So they let him go. Kenton coming

0:32:39.440 --> 0:32:44.160
<v Speaker 1>to Wessel's aid shows the favorable reputation that he had

0:32:44.200 --> 0:32:47.640
<v Speaker 1>in the region. This wouldn't be the last time that

0:32:47.800 --> 0:32:52.120
<v Speaker 1>Wetzel ended up in jail though. Here's Chip with more

0:32:52.240 --> 0:32:57.160
<v Speaker 1>insight into Wetzel's tactics for killing that showed his brutality

0:32:57.440 --> 0:33:01.400
<v Speaker 1>and the mind frame he had. And this is interesting too.

0:33:01.520 --> 0:33:05.840
<v Speaker 1>I think Lewis was at times just over the edge.

0:33:05.760 --> 0:33:09.840
<v Speaker 1>You can be courageous, but you can also be stupid sometimes.

0:33:09.880 --> 0:33:11.720
<v Speaker 1>And he got to the point where he didn't care

0:33:11.960 --> 0:33:14.680
<v Speaker 1>if he was outnumbered two or three to one. He'd

0:33:14.720 --> 0:33:17.520
<v Speaker 1>figure out a way to kill those Indians. And there's

0:33:17.560 --> 0:33:21.280
<v Speaker 1>several times where he was tracking Indians and might come

0:33:21.320 --> 0:33:24.040
<v Speaker 1>across a group of just two or three. So he

0:33:24.080 --> 0:33:27.000
<v Speaker 1>figured out that instead of just charging in the camp,

0:33:27.560 --> 0:33:29.480
<v Speaker 1>just let him go to sleep. You're going they're going

0:33:29.560 --> 0:33:31.920
<v Speaker 1>to go to sleep sooner or later. And there's several

0:33:31.960 --> 0:33:35.960
<v Speaker 1>times this story is told. But after they were asleep,

0:33:36.360 --> 0:33:39.480
<v Speaker 1>he would slip in there with knife in one hand

0:33:39.520 --> 0:33:42.600
<v Speaker 1>and tomahawk and the other and drive the knife into

0:33:42.640 --> 0:33:45.560
<v Speaker 1>the heart of one, tomahawk the other and if the

0:33:45.600 --> 0:33:48.200
<v Speaker 1>third one heard something and jumped up, he'd get the

0:33:48.240 --> 0:33:50.840
<v Speaker 1>same thing and he would kill all three. I mean,

0:33:50.920 --> 0:33:54.440
<v Speaker 1>he was that obsessed with with killing Indians, and he

0:33:54.520 --> 0:33:57.640
<v Speaker 1>was that good at it. Uh, it's scary to talk about.

0:33:57.720 --> 0:34:01.160
<v Speaker 1>He was very much a warrior, you know, he really was.

0:34:01.840 --> 0:34:04.760
<v Speaker 1>And uh. And again there was no there was no

0:34:04.800 --> 0:34:07.320
<v Speaker 1>guilt in his mind, there was no regret. It was

0:34:07.400 --> 0:34:10.319
<v Speaker 1>just I've got to do this. And he continued doing

0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:13.600
<v Speaker 1>it basically until until the day he died. I heard

0:34:13.640 --> 0:34:17.239
<v Speaker 1>them mention and and this put it into context for me,

0:34:17.719 --> 0:34:20.799
<v Speaker 1>is that he viewed killing an Indian no different than

0:34:21.280 --> 0:34:24.400
<v Speaker 1>he viewed killing a bear, which is a kind of

0:34:24.400 --> 0:34:28.439
<v Speaker 1>a wild thought. The cultures were so different that they

0:34:28.680 --> 0:34:30.600
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people back at that time, What's Will

0:34:30.640 --> 0:34:33.800
<v Speaker 1>probably included, did not think of Indians as human beings.

0:34:34.320 --> 0:34:36.120
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how you can do that, and we

0:34:36.320 --> 0:34:39.880
<v Speaker 1>certainly today aren't there. But there was a time in

0:34:39.960 --> 0:34:43.040
<v Speaker 1>history when people thought that that they're not humans. They're

0:34:43.040 --> 0:34:45.600
<v Speaker 1>like us, but they're not humans, so we can we

0:34:45.640 --> 0:34:48.160
<v Speaker 1>can go ahead and kill them. Yeah, and it's it's

0:34:48.200 --> 0:34:52.360
<v Speaker 1>hard for us in to put our mind there. Well really,

0:34:52.480 --> 0:34:55.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's a trend inside of human nature. And

0:34:55.239 --> 0:34:57.880
<v Speaker 1>it makes it easier to kill your enemy if you

0:34:57.920 --> 0:35:01.719
<v Speaker 1>think they're not human. That's part of this archeological aspect

0:35:01.719 --> 0:35:04.680
<v Speaker 1>of it. If that person is not a person and

0:35:04.760 --> 0:35:07.719
<v Speaker 1>they're a bear, that's a lot easier. Yeahs almost like

0:35:07.760 --> 0:35:11.560
<v Speaker 1>a coping mechanism for guilt. And you build that into

0:35:11.560 --> 0:35:14.319
<v Speaker 1>your culture, and your dad tells you that, and his

0:35:14.440 --> 0:35:17.080
<v Speaker 1>dad told him that, And it's time you're young, you're

0:35:17.120 --> 0:35:20.640
<v Speaker 1>taught that, you know, and then the more you do it,

0:35:21.320 --> 0:35:26.000
<v Speaker 1>the less you're bothered by it. The human story is

0:35:26.040 --> 0:35:30.280
<v Speaker 1>wrought with tragedy, and in North America, the de humanization

0:35:30.440 --> 0:35:34.120
<v Speaker 1>of indigenous people is one that happened here, but to

0:35:34.200 --> 0:35:39.040
<v Speaker 1>be historically accurate, many Native American ideologies didn't believe the

0:35:39.120 --> 0:35:43.280
<v Speaker 1>white man to be fully human either. The Shawnees believed

0:35:43.320 --> 0:35:46.640
<v Speaker 1>that whites were of a lesser order and were created

0:35:46.680 --> 0:35:49.719
<v Speaker 1>by an inferior god to the one that made them,

0:35:50.320 --> 0:35:54.680
<v Speaker 1>and in turn, they were often extremely brutal towards the

0:35:54.680 --> 0:35:59.320
<v Speaker 1>white interlopers who invaded and took over their ancestral lands.

0:36:00.080 --> 0:36:03.719
<v Speaker 1>Was a bloody and wild time period. I think this

0:36:03.760 --> 0:36:05.960
<v Speaker 1>would be a good time to talk briefly about some

0:36:06.000 --> 0:36:08.400
<v Speaker 1>of the other Wetzel brothers, because you're gonna need to

0:36:08.480 --> 0:36:12.200
<v Speaker 1>just know they were there. Louis's older brother, Martin, was

0:36:12.280 --> 0:36:16.399
<v Speaker 1>the second most notorious of the brothers. He once executed

0:36:16.440 --> 0:36:21.200
<v Speaker 1>sixteen Native captives with his tomahawk, and he once snuck

0:36:21.280 --> 0:36:24.920
<v Speaker 1>up behind an Indian in the midst of a peace

0:36:25.000 --> 0:36:30.200
<v Speaker 1>negotiation and literally split his skull with a tomahawk. Martin

0:36:30.280 --> 0:36:33.400
<v Speaker 1>was once captured by Native Americans and was their captive

0:36:33.440 --> 0:36:36.600
<v Speaker 1>for over a year, and by deceit he gained their

0:36:36.680 --> 0:36:41.560
<v Speaker 1>trust and then escaped after murdering one by one the

0:36:41.600 --> 0:36:46.480
<v Speaker 1>three Indians he was hunting. With John Wetzel Jr. Another brother,

0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:51.520
<v Speaker 1>He once infiltrated an Indian village by dressing like an Indian.

0:36:51.920 --> 0:36:56.200
<v Speaker 1>He stayed undercover for several days before he murdered two

0:36:56.239 --> 0:37:00.920
<v Speaker 1>Indians outside the village and later complained about only bringing

0:37:00.960 --> 0:37:06.120
<v Speaker 1>home two scalps. All the Wetzel brothers were involved in

0:37:06.239 --> 0:37:09.959
<v Speaker 1>this war and in murder and Indians. Now, let's talk

0:37:10.000 --> 0:37:13.880
<v Speaker 1>about a critical moment in the Wetzel Brothers young adult life.

0:37:15.080 --> 0:37:19.080
<v Speaker 1>The biggest marker and understanding who Lewis Wetzel was and

0:37:19.120 --> 0:37:21.040
<v Speaker 1>all the Wetzel brothers and why they did what they

0:37:21.080 --> 0:37:24.600
<v Speaker 1>did was when their father was killed. And it was

0:37:24.800 --> 0:37:29.520
<v Speaker 1>in seven and it was Louis, his brother Martin, his

0:37:29.640 --> 0:37:33.200
<v Speaker 1>brother George, and his dad. So four Wetzel's father and

0:37:33.239 --> 0:37:36.279
<v Speaker 1>three sons. They're in a canoe on the Ohio River

0:37:36.520 --> 0:37:39.640
<v Speaker 1>or some type of boat on the Ohio River, and

0:37:39.880 --> 0:37:43.480
<v Speaker 1>they get ambushed from the bank for no apparent reason

0:37:43.760 --> 0:37:49.120
<v Speaker 1>and essentially kill John wetzl Sr. And George Wetzel. And

0:37:49.160 --> 0:37:51.480
<v Speaker 1>so the two that are alive are Martin and Lewis,

0:37:51.840 --> 0:37:54.480
<v Speaker 1>and they survive in kind of a wild story of

0:37:54.960 --> 0:37:57.920
<v Speaker 1>jumping in the water and being on the back side

0:37:57.920 --> 0:38:02.279
<v Speaker 1>of the boat. And they go and make retribution for

0:38:02.320 --> 0:38:05.600
<v Speaker 1>their father and kill a couple of the Indians that

0:38:05.680 --> 0:38:08.640
<v Speaker 1>were a part of this. And they say that that

0:38:08.840 --> 0:38:13.759
<v Speaker 1>was that was the thing that solidified his vow. So

0:38:13.840 --> 0:38:16.759
<v Speaker 1>he's made this vow when he was a young boy,

0:38:16.800 --> 0:38:19.400
<v Speaker 1>after being captured when he's thirteen, he becomes a scout

0:38:19.440 --> 0:38:23.040
<v Speaker 1>when he's seventeen and then at twenty three, his dad

0:38:23.160 --> 0:38:26.080
<v Speaker 1>and brother get killed in front of him. They bury

0:38:26.160 --> 0:38:28.000
<v Speaker 1>him in a shallow grave on the banks of the

0:38:28.000 --> 0:38:32.799
<v Speaker 1>Ohio River and Hickory bark coffins, so that that that

0:38:32.920 --> 0:38:36.600
<v Speaker 1>like solidified the next twenty years of his life. Before

0:38:36.600 --> 0:38:39.000
<v Speaker 1>he died of of he was just gonna kill everybody

0:38:39.040 --> 0:38:42.480
<v Speaker 1>that he could find. This is a great place to

0:38:42.560 --> 0:38:45.720
<v Speaker 1>try to venture into the mind of Lewis Wetzel. Zach

0:38:45.840 --> 0:38:49.280
<v Speaker 1>Nukem is a clinical social worker, but he has also

0:38:49.400 --> 0:38:53.200
<v Speaker 1>served as the clinical director of a psychiatric hospital. He

0:38:53.360 --> 0:38:56.160
<v Speaker 1>spent his career in the mental health field, and I

0:38:56.239 --> 0:38:59.440
<v Speaker 1>wanted to get some clarity on the possible conditions of

0:38:59.560 --> 0:39:05.000
<v Speaker 1>somebody with a resume like Wetzel. And yep, Zack is

0:39:05.080 --> 0:39:09.360
<v Speaker 1>my brother, older brother. You know, as you described for

0:39:09.440 --> 0:39:11.919
<v Speaker 1>me Wetzel, in his life, a couple of things pop

0:39:11.920 --> 0:39:14.240
<v Speaker 1>out that would that I would want to explore deeper.

0:39:14.440 --> 0:39:17.800
<v Speaker 1>One would be his the initial childhood trauma that he experienced.

0:39:17.920 --> 0:39:20.319
<v Speaker 1>You've got to go there. To me as a as

0:39:20.320 --> 0:39:23.040
<v Speaker 1>a clinician, I'm gonna you know, PTSD is something that's

0:39:23.040 --> 0:39:25.960
<v Speaker 1>going to be strong on my radar. Honestly, with trauma

0:39:26.040 --> 0:39:28.600
<v Speaker 1>like that it would be hard for me to believe

0:39:28.640 --> 0:39:30.799
<v Speaker 1>that there's not PTSD there, right, Sure, I mean that's

0:39:30.840 --> 0:39:36.080
<v Speaker 1>pretty you know, post traumatic post traumatic stress disorder from

0:39:36.120 --> 0:39:40.480
<v Speaker 1>as a child being distressed by confrontation with these Indians

0:39:40.480 --> 0:39:43.560
<v Speaker 1>being kidnapped. Yep. Absolutely, it just grew through his life

0:39:43.600 --> 0:39:46.720
<v Speaker 1>probably yep. So you've got that trauma right there, which

0:39:47.080 --> 0:39:49.640
<v Speaker 1>changes a man, right, that changes a human being. And

0:39:49.640 --> 0:39:52.399
<v Speaker 1>then as you described to me the environment he lived in,

0:39:52.800 --> 0:39:55.640
<v Speaker 1>which my understanding, I mean he was basically that was

0:39:55.719 --> 0:39:59.000
<v Speaker 1>his profession, was to kill Native Americans. And so as

0:39:59.040 --> 0:40:01.000
<v Speaker 1>you described that to me, the first thing that comes

0:40:01.000 --> 0:40:02.840
<v Speaker 1>to my mind is, I mean, that's not that's not

0:40:02.920 --> 0:40:04.640
<v Speaker 1>an environment in any of us, at least in the

0:40:04.719 --> 0:40:07.279
<v Speaker 1>US live in today for the most part. I mean,

0:40:07.280 --> 0:40:09.080
<v Speaker 1>that's a war zone. What you're describing to me as

0:40:09.120 --> 0:40:12.080
<v Speaker 1>a war zone. And so you know, so if you're

0:40:12.360 --> 0:40:16.520
<v Speaker 1>assessing anisocial personality disorder or or is somebody a sociopath,

0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:19.080
<v Speaker 1>you know it is a soldier a sociopath for doing

0:40:19.120 --> 0:40:21.719
<v Speaker 1>what he does in on the battlefield. Right, So those

0:40:21.719 --> 0:40:23.440
<v Speaker 1>are things you're gonna have to take into account. So

0:40:23.440 --> 0:40:28.600
<v Speaker 1>the context matters, The context matters, The context matters, that's

0:40:28.640 --> 0:40:31.680
<v Speaker 1>good to know. I asked Zack if he would be

0:40:31.719 --> 0:40:36.000
<v Speaker 1>able to diagnose Wetzel, and here's what he said after

0:40:36.360 --> 0:40:39.759
<v Speaker 1>he almost slapped me. So it would be unethical. It

0:40:39.840 --> 0:40:42.080
<v Speaker 1>is unethical for me to diagnose someone who's not in

0:40:42.120 --> 0:40:45.000
<v Speaker 1>front of me, that I'm not actively assessing. So when

0:40:45.000 --> 0:40:48.280
<v Speaker 1>people ask me these things, Hey, this character from the past,

0:40:48.400 --> 0:40:50.239
<v Speaker 1>or this that and the other or there, you know,

0:40:50.280 --> 0:40:52.120
<v Speaker 1>it happens to me all the time, like, hey, my

0:40:52.160 --> 0:40:55.840
<v Speaker 1>brother is doing these things, or my boyfriend or my girlfriend,

0:40:55.880 --> 0:40:58.520
<v Speaker 1>are they a psychopath? Right? I can kind of look

0:40:58.520 --> 0:41:00.920
<v Speaker 1>at things, little story worries, and they're all kind of

0:41:00.960 --> 0:41:03.880
<v Speaker 1>anecdotal right at this point in time, and I can say, hey,

0:41:03.920 --> 0:41:05.480
<v Speaker 1>you know what, if they were coming into my office

0:41:05.480 --> 0:41:08.239
<v Speaker 1>and I had this information, I can say, you know what,

0:41:08.280 --> 0:41:12.000
<v Speaker 1>these are things I'd be looking for. Okay, man, Okay.

0:41:12.040 --> 0:41:14.920
<v Speaker 1>So it's unethical to go back and diagnose someone that

0:41:14.960 --> 0:41:17.839
<v Speaker 1>you can't actually speak with. That is good to know.

0:41:18.600 --> 0:41:23.080
<v Speaker 1>So now let's learn about sociopaths psychopaths and how both

0:41:23.080 --> 0:41:27.800
<v Speaker 1>of these fall under the category of anti social personality

0:41:27.840 --> 0:41:31.520
<v Speaker 1>disorder and people throw around like you just throughout the

0:41:31.840 --> 0:41:35.640
<v Speaker 1>like sociopath sociopath is not an official diagnosis. It's a

0:41:35.920 --> 0:41:39.400
<v Speaker 1>just kind of a term to describe a set of behaviors, right,

0:41:39.719 --> 0:41:43.200
<v Speaker 1>and so sociopath and psychopath fall into under the category

0:41:43.239 --> 0:41:46.799
<v Speaker 1>most of the time of antisocial personality disorder. So what

0:41:47.000 --> 0:41:50.120
<v Speaker 1>is the sociopath? So, if you're looking at sociopath versus psychopath,

0:41:50.160 --> 0:41:51.600
<v Speaker 1>which is kind of the easiest way to see them,

0:41:52.120 --> 0:41:55.440
<v Speaker 1>sociopath would be somebody who you know, they lack empathy

0:41:55.480 --> 0:42:00.239
<v Speaker 1>for others. Generally speaking, the sociopath is aggressive, Like there's

0:42:00.239 --> 0:42:02.200
<v Speaker 1>a lot a lot of anger outbursts, there's a lot

0:42:02.239 --> 0:42:07.240
<v Speaker 1>of aggression. The sociopath, they can be uh, demonstrative and

0:42:07.040 --> 0:42:10.200
<v Speaker 1>and and people explosive. But also, like what I'm trying

0:42:10.239 --> 0:42:12.520
<v Speaker 1>to get at is people can you know, enjoy their

0:42:12.520 --> 0:42:14.759
<v Speaker 1>company to a certain degree because they're they're wild and

0:42:14.760 --> 0:42:18.400
<v Speaker 1>crazy and fun. Okay, so they could be like almost

0:42:18.680 --> 0:42:22.279
<v Speaker 1>normal people in some social settings. Yeah, Now the psychopath

0:42:22.360 --> 0:42:25.040
<v Speaker 1>more the contrast of that would be the psychopath would

0:42:25.080 --> 0:42:28.960
<v Speaker 1>again not have the the emotional connection to people, not

0:42:29.000 --> 0:42:32.359
<v Speaker 1>really feel empathy, but generally speaking, would be able to

0:42:32.400 --> 0:42:35.720
<v Speaker 1>discern I'm gonna laugh and smile to manipulate this person,

0:42:35.880 --> 0:42:38.960
<v Speaker 1>but really they're not laughing and inside that's a psychopath,

0:42:39.000 --> 0:42:42.759
<v Speaker 1>have very clinical, very very unfeeling. So do you think

0:42:42.760 --> 0:42:46.319
<v Speaker 1>a guy that would have killed this many humans, he

0:42:46.360 --> 0:42:50.920
<v Speaker 1>could fall under a category of a sociopath. Yeah, okay,

0:42:50.960 --> 0:42:55.520
<v Speaker 1>so somebody like Wetzel could be considered a sociopath. But

0:42:55.640 --> 0:42:59.040
<v Speaker 1>this is the main source of the problem, this antisocial

0:42:59.160 --> 0:43:04.040
<v Speaker 1>personality disorder. We need to learn what this is, alright,

0:43:04.080 --> 0:43:06.880
<v Speaker 1>So and that social personality disorder. And this is straight

0:43:06.920 --> 0:43:09.640
<v Speaker 1>from the ds M five, which is the diagnostic manual.

0:43:09.840 --> 0:43:13.160
<v Speaker 1>This is straight from the textbook. This is textbook. So

0:43:13.239 --> 0:43:15.920
<v Speaker 1>somebody from them to meet that criteria, they have to

0:43:15.960 --> 0:43:19.000
<v Speaker 1>meet three or more of the following. Okay, Failure to

0:43:19.040 --> 0:43:22.600
<v Speaker 1>conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors, as

0:43:22.640 --> 0:43:26.280
<v Speaker 1>indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest,

0:43:27.360 --> 0:43:31.520
<v Speaker 1>so check. Check. Deceitfulness as indicated by repeated lying, use

0:43:31.560 --> 0:43:35.040
<v Speaker 1>of aliases or conning others for personal profit or pleasure.

0:43:35.160 --> 0:43:37.600
<v Speaker 1>I would say, check, would you okay, you know him

0:43:37.600 --> 0:43:42.000
<v Speaker 1>more than me? Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead. Man,

0:43:42.040 --> 0:43:45.160
<v Speaker 1>I might fit into that one, see that one. At

0:43:45.200 --> 0:43:47.480
<v Speaker 1>least based on the story. Those those three things, No,

0:43:47.600 --> 0:43:49.880
<v Speaker 1>there's more. There's a list of seven here. That will go.

0:43:50.840 --> 0:43:52.680
<v Speaker 1>He's got to have at least oh, he's got to

0:43:52.680 --> 0:43:56.239
<v Speaker 1>have at least three, at least three of the sew.

0:43:56.320 --> 0:43:58.439
<v Speaker 1>We can't diagnose him because that wouldn't be Yeah, yeah,

0:43:58.480 --> 0:44:00.040
<v Speaker 1>we're not gonna do it. But this is like a

0:44:00.000 --> 0:44:04.360
<v Speaker 1>good guideline. Irritability and aggressiveness as indicated by repeated physical

0:44:04.400 --> 0:44:08.600
<v Speaker 1>fights or assaults chick. See okay, I mean he compulsed,

0:44:08.680 --> 0:44:12.960
<v Speaker 1>he killed people just constantly. Yeah, but in the context

0:44:13.000 --> 0:44:16.480
<v Speaker 1>of war. Yeah, so then reckless disregard for safety of

0:44:16.520 --> 0:44:21.600
<v Speaker 1>self or others. Check. Consistent irresponsibility is indicated by repeated

0:44:21.600 --> 0:44:31.360
<v Speaker 1>failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations. Check. Counterfeiting. Uh.

0:44:31.600 --> 0:44:35.360
<v Speaker 1>Lack of remorse as indicative by being indifferent to or

0:44:35.480 --> 0:44:38.759
<v Speaker 1>rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, they're stolen from another. Oh wow,

0:44:38.880 --> 0:44:44.359
<v Speaker 1>triple check. So based on those criteria, those seven, well,

0:44:44.600 --> 0:44:50.560
<v Speaker 1>he for sure had six. This is a diagnosis. But

0:44:50.719 --> 0:44:54.000
<v Speaker 1>these are the things Zach would be looking into if

0:44:54.080 --> 0:44:58.200
<v Speaker 1>Louis Wetzel came into his office. So as we move forward,

0:44:58.520 --> 0:45:02.000
<v Speaker 1>the definition of a serious killer is simply someone who

0:45:02.040 --> 0:45:06.400
<v Speaker 1>has murdered more than one person. Here are Zack's final

0:45:06.440 --> 0:45:09.719
<v Speaker 1>thoughts from everything I'm hearing in our conversation. If you

0:45:09.840 --> 0:45:12.319
<v Speaker 1>very potentially have the labeling of a serial killer, you

0:45:12.440 --> 0:45:15.720
<v Speaker 1>very potentially have the labeling of a sociopath or somebody

0:45:15.760 --> 0:45:19.400
<v Speaker 1>with antisocial personality disorder, uh, and you highly likely have

0:45:19.520 --> 0:45:23.279
<v Speaker 1>some post traumatic stress disorder. We're going to learn that

0:45:23.320 --> 0:45:26.760
<v Speaker 1>Wetzeld got into some serious trouble with some counterfeit money

0:45:26.880 --> 0:45:30.040
<v Speaker 1>later in his life. But I think this general checklist

0:45:30.160 --> 0:45:32.400
<v Speaker 1>is pointing us in the right directions we try to

0:45:32.480 --> 0:45:37.120
<v Speaker 1>understand it. What I learned about this antisocial personality disorder

0:45:37.440 --> 0:45:40.960
<v Speaker 1>is that it's very serious and that really less than

0:45:41.040 --> 0:45:44.080
<v Speaker 1>five percent of the population could be diagnosed with it.

0:45:44.440 --> 0:45:46.520
<v Speaker 1>And it doesn't mean that you don't like being in

0:45:46.600 --> 0:45:49.560
<v Speaker 1>public or don't like talking to people. It actually doesn't

0:45:49.600 --> 0:45:52.680
<v Speaker 1>mean that at all. It means that a person wouldn't

0:45:52.719 --> 0:45:56.800
<v Speaker 1>comply with the very basic premises of society, and a

0:45:56.920 --> 0:46:00.319
<v Speaker 1>high percentage of people in prison have this this order.

0:46:00.840 --> 0:46:03.440
<v Speaker 1>But let's get back into Wenzel's life and look at

0:46:03.480 --> 0:46:06.279
<v Speaker 1>the only thing we have, which are the stories that

0:46:06.320 --> 0:46:10.000
<v Speaker 1>are recorded about him. We're gonna tell two stories of

0:46:10.160 --> 0:46:15.040
<v Speaker 1>cold blooded bushwhacken murder that had to do with turkey hunting.

0:46:15.600 --> 0:46:21.080
<v Speaker 1>But first Steve will discuss the hazy nature of human storytelling.

0:46:22.160 --> 0:46:24.279
<v Speaker 1>You know, when you're talking about how stories get a

0:46:24.280 --> 0:46:26.799
<v Speaker 1>little messed up in the telling. Yeah, I have a

0:46:26.840 --> 0:46:29.680
<v Speaker 1>friend who tells me a great story that involves him. Okay,

0:46:29.719 --> 0:46:33.080
<v Speaker 1>so my buddy Ronnie tells me a story about Ronnie.

0:46:33.440 --> 0:46:37.760
<v Speaker 1>I then tell my friend a story that happened to Ronnie.

0:46:38.480 --> 0:46:41.800
<v Speaker 1>A couple of years goes by. My friend is talking

0:46:41.840 --> 0:46:46.480
<v Speaker 1>to Ronnie, telling Ronnie a story that happened to me.

0:46:47.160 --> 0:46:50.760
<v Speaker 1>Towards the end of the story, Ronnie says, wait a minute,

0:46:50.920 --> 0:46:55.600
<v Speaker 1>that didn't happen to Steve. That's my story. Yeah, I

0:46:55.719 --> 0:46:59.800
<v Speaker 1>bring that up where there's a there's like this apocryphal

0:47:00.400 --> 0:47:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Wetzell's story about a Native American who is hunting whites

0:47:06.680 --> 0:47:11.799
<v Speaker 1>by mimicking the sound of a wild turkey gobbling and

0:47:11.960 --> 0:47:16.239
<v Speaker 1>lures and and kills too. Who are He's targeting people

0:47:16.280 --> 0:47:19.480
<v Speaker 1>who are out hunting turkeys in the spring. He gobbles

0:47:19.800 --> 0:47:23.200
<v Speaker 1>when they come slipping in, he kills them. Lewis Wetzel

0:47:23.239 --> 0:47:27.560
<v Speaker 1>gets wind of this, sneaks into the area where he

0:47:27.600 --> 0:47:31.600
<v Speaker 1>knows this individual is hanging out, throws a rock to

0:47:31.719 --> 0:47:36.800
<v Speaker 1>make a noise. The individual who's masquerading as a turkey

0:47:36.840 --> 0:47:41.240
<v Speaker 1>reveals himself to see what the noise was, and Wetzel

0:47:41.600 --> 0:47:46.319
<v Speaker 1>out smarts the guy who's out smarting everything, and they

0:47:46.320 --> 0:47:49.239
<v Speaker 1>call that guy the gobbler Indian. And it's like, did

0:47:49.280 --> 0:47:51.680
<v Speaker 1>that really happen? You know what I mean? It's like

0:47:51.800 --> 0:47:55.560
<v Speaker 1>so crazy, but also so it's like a perfect story.

0:47:55.800 --> 0:47:59.640
<v Speaker 1>Alman tells that story, and he staked out where he

0:47:59.680 --> 0:48:01.920
<v Speaker 1>believes this Indian was. He got up in a bluff,

0:48:01.920 --> 0:48:04.480
<v Speaker 1>and there's actually a photo in this book of a

0:48:04.560 --> 0:48:07.719
<v Speaker 1>bluff that is believed to be where he shot the

0:48:07.719 --> 0:48:10.319
<v Speaker 1>Indian from. And so it's like a place that they

0:48:10.320 --> 0:48:12.640
<v Speaker 1>think it happened, but it winds up being it's like,

0:48:12.760 --> 0:48:15.960
<v Speaker 1>how many adventures is one guy get to have? Yeah?

0:48:16.920 --> 0:48:18.840
<v Speaker 1>Well that and that's where it just starts to stack

0:48:18.960 --> 0:48:22.480
<v Speaker 1>up thick, because listen to this one, Steve. So somehow

0:48:22.520 --> 0:48:26.239
<v Speaker 1>they knew that there was some Native Americans hunting over

0:48:26.280 --> 0:48:29.160
<v Speaker 1>in this area and that they were keyed in on turkeys.

0:48:29.920 --> 0:48:33.560
<v Speaker 1>Louis Wetzel had killed the turkey the day before, cuts

0:48:33.560 --> 0:48:37.320
<v Speaker 1>off its foot, it's wingbone, and puts it in his pouch,

0:48:37.400 --> 0:48:40.640
<v Speaker 1>it said, and whether he was using that to turkey

0:48:40.680 --> 0:48:42.239
<v Speaker 1>hunt because he was a good hunter too. I mean

0:48:42.280 --> 0:48:44.640
<v Speaker 1>he was making a living hunting essentially, I mean just

0:48:44.719 --> 0:48:46.319
<v Speaker 1>for his own food. And you know when he was

0:48:46.360 --> 0:48:49.719
<v Speaker 1>in the frontier at least, and but he knows that

0:48:49.800 --> 0:48:52.480
<v Speaker 1>there's guys around, and what he does is he takes

0:48:52.520 --> 0:48:55.000
<v Speaker 1>the track. I'm pretty sure Lyman Draper is the one

0:48:55.040 --> 0:48:58.200
<v Speaker 1>that recorded this, so it would have been like third hand,

0:48:59.200 --> 0:49:01.959
<v Speaker 1>Like Louis, it's a told a guy and that guy

0:49:02.200 --> 0:49:05.319
<v Speaker 1>told Draper, so you know, it's about as good as

0:49:05.320 --> 0:49:09.160
<v Speaker 1>we can get. And Louis said that he made turkey

0:49:09.200 --> 0:49:12.440
<v Speaker 1>tracks in the snow bank, so he didn't leave his tracks.

0:49:12.880 --> 0:49:15.479
<v Speaker 1>He left turkey tracks and went up on the hill,

0:49:15.719 --> 0:49:19.279
<v Speaker 1>staked out a hundred yards away in a clearing, and

0:49:19.600 --> 0:49:23.400
<v Speaker 1>he made the sound of a fly up a turkey

0:49:23.440 --> 0:49:29.319
<v Speaker 1>flying up to roost by slapping the wing strategy used

0:49:29.360 --> 0:49:32.279
<v Speaker 1>by a modern but you use the wing to make

0:49:32.320 --> 0:49:35.759
<v Speaker 1>the fly down. But the difference between us and them,

0:49:36.239 --> 0:49:38.279
<v Speaker 1>we hunt him in the daylight, and they would hunt

0:49:38.320 --> 0:49:41.799
<v Speaker 1>him oftentimes sometimes in the dark. Well, he made this

0:49:42.040 --> 0:49:45.280
<v Speaker 1>the loud sound of a turkey flying up to roost,

0:49:45.480 --> 0:49:47.440
<v Speaker 1>and then he had a wingbone call. And I mean

0:49:47.800 --> 0:49:53.120
<v Speaker 1>the guy the Native American appears and starts tracking those tracks,

0:49:53.160 --> 0:49:55.560
<v Speaker 1>and he shoots him, kills him dead. I mean, so

0:49:56.560 --> 0:49:59.719
<v Speaker 1>it's wild. You know, these stories, I think you have

0:49:59.800 --> 0:50:02.359
<v Speaker 1>to can with a grain of salt, but you know

0:50:02.520 --> 0:50:05.360
<v Speaker 1>they come from I mean, that may be just the

0:50:05.360 --> 0:50:07.640
<v Speaker 1>way it happened, but it also might have been a

0:50:08.160 --> 0:50:11.239
<v Speaker 1>fraction of the truth as well. What we know is

0:50:11.280 --> 0:50:15.840
<v Speaker 1>that in that time, in those years, people were dying.

0:50:16.160 --> 0:50:22.360
<v Speaker 1>By the thousands. Death was just everywhere. Every family was

0:50:22.440 --> 0:50:27.720
<v Speaker 1>touched directly by death. You could not get through years

0:50:28.400 --> 0:50:32.439
<v Speaker 1>without seeing dead people laying around. You couldn't get through

0:50:32.480 --> 0:50:37.160
<v Speaker 1>life without seeing mutilated corpses. You couldn't. Yeah, so was

0:50:37.280 --> 0:50:39.880
<v Speaker 1>every one of these little murder incidents or whatever he said, like,

0:50:40.000 --> 0:50:42.080
<v Speaker 1>is it? Like, I don't know. But what we do

0:50:42.200 --> 0:50:45.800
<v Speaker 1>know there was a lot of people killing a lot

0:50:46.200 --> 0:50:49.400
<v Speaker 1>of people during those years and that part of the country.

0:50:51.680 --> 0:50:54.640
<v Speaker 1>Think about being in the spring Turkey woods here in

0:50:54.680 --> 0:50:58.480
<v Speaker 1>a gobble and trying to decide if somebody's trying to

0:50:58.719 --> 0:51:03.880
<v Speaker 1>lure you into kill you. That is next level. Here's

0:51:03.880 --> 0:51:07.360
<v Speaker 1>the suite of stories that continued to paint a picture

0:51:07.640 --> 0:51:12.040
<v Speaker 1>of Wetzel's wild life. There's a story of once of

0:51:12.120 --> 0:51:15.600
<v Speaker 1>him escaping from Indians swimming. He swimming the Ohio River

0:51:15.680 --> 0:51:19.200
<v Speaker 1>a lot. You know, Whelan, West Virginia was right on

0:51:19.239 --> 0:51:21.760
<v Speaker 1>the edge of the Ohio River and then the Ohio

0:51:21.840 --> 0:51:23.879
<v Speaker 1>Territory was where a bunch of the stuff was going down.

0:51:24.360 --> 0:51:27.520
<v Speaker 1>Multiple times he swam the Ohio River in bad conditions

0:51:27.520 --> 0:51:30.200
<v Speaker 1>and once he and a buddy escaped. They had one horse.

0:51:30.680 --> 0:51:33.319
<v Speaker 1>They the buddy takes the horse for whatever reason, I

0:51:33.320 --> 0:51:35.720
<v Speaker 1>guess he was riding it. The horse takes him across

0:51:35.719 --> 0:51:38.600
<v Speaker 1>the Ohio River swimming. Wetzel has to swim, and I

0:51:38.600 --> 0:51:41.320
<v Speaker 1>mean they're fleeing for their life. And he gets across.

0:51:41.360 --> 0:51:44.160
<v Speaker 1>It's in the dead of winter and he's dieing a

0:51:44.239 --> 0:51:48.320
<v Speaker 1>hypothermia and a story as they kill the horse, split

0:51:48.360 --> 0:51:51.480
<v Speaker 1>it down the middle, Wetzel crawls in the horse and

0:51:51.520 --> 0:51:55.640
<v Speaker 1>survives hypothermia inside the horse. That's kind of a throwback

0:51:55.680 --> 0:51:57.919
<v Speaker 1>to the old you know, you wonder where the guys

0:51:57.960 --> 0:52:00.479
<v Speaker 1>at Star Wars got that when they killed There's there's

0:52:00.560 --> 0:52:05.120
<v Speaker 1>there's accounts as well of hide hunters, buffalo hide hunters

0:52:05.160 --> 0:52:09.920
<v Speaker 1>surviving storms inside you know, inside the abdominal cavities of

0:52:09.960 --> 0:52:13.120
<v Speaker 1>buffalo they kill. They didn't get it from Star Wars. Well,

0:52:13.480 --> 0:52:17.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm saying the Star Wars got Star Wars Spielberg. He

0:52:18.320 --> 0:52:22.200
<v Speaker 1>got it from those boys. Okay, in my knowledge of Wetzel,

0:52:22.280 --> 0:52:26.080
<v Speaker 1>this was his most cold blooded move ever. So in

0:52:26.160 --> 0:52:31.360
<v Speaker 1>his adult life, Lewis was captured by Indians and he

0:52:31.360 --> 0:52:34.680
<v Speaker 1>he stayed with them for some period of time, and

0:52:35.040 --> 0:52:38.879
<v Speaker 1>they capture him and they know who he is. And interestingly,

0:52:38.920 --> 0:52:42.360
<v Speaker 1>inside of Native American culture, if they capture a great warrior,

0:52:42.440 --> 0:52:45.600
<v Speaker 1>even from the enemy, they treat him different, you know,

0:52:45.640 --> 0:52:47.279
<v Speaker 1>I mean, like you'd think with us, it might be

0:52:47.320 --> 0:52:49.960
<v Speaker 1>like kill him immediately, good, different always Because you know

0:52:50.000 --> 0:52:52.280
<v Speaker 1>the story of Jacob great House, him and his wife,

0:52:54.200 --> 0:52:56.959
<v Speaker 1>Jacob great House, the o're bad very much in the vein,

0:52:57.239 --> 0:53:00.280
<v Speaker 1>very much in the vein of Wetzel. Jacob Great Else

0:53:00.600 --> 0:53:03.600
<v Speaker 1>commit some atrocities, and when they caught him, they took

0:53:03.640 --> 0:53:07.319
<v Speaker 1>him and his wife and they opened their bellies right

0:53:07.360 --> 0:53:12.200
<v Speaker 1>above the pubic line, pulled out the lower intestine, tied

0:53:12.239 --> 0:53:14.759
<v Speaker 1>it to a sapling, and made him go round and

0:53:14.840 --> 0:53:18.239
<v Speaker 1>round in circles. The wife died pretty young, but they

0:53:18.239 --> 0:53:20.520
<v Speaker 1>say Jacob grey House went so far he pulled his

0:53:20.560 --> 0:53:24.560
<v Speaker 1>own stomach out before he died. Because he had done

0:53:24.600 --> 0:53:28.040
<v Speaker 1>some bad stuff, and he knew him and he paid

0:53:28.120 --> 0:53:31.359
<v Speaker 1>for the bad things he did. In his case is unprovoked.

0:53:31.480 --> 0:53:35.800
<v Speaker 1>Unprovoked killing of friendly people. Yeah, well, in the account

0:53:36.000 --> 0:53:38.080
<v Speaker 1>that is told by Wetzel, because he was the only

0:53:38.080 --> 0:53:41.160
<v Speaker 1>one there, they are trying to figure out what to

0:53:41.200 --> 0:53:44.400
<v Speaker 1>do with him, because they've got a real trophy on

0:53:44.440 --> 0:53:47.359
<v Speaker 1>their minds. This is a great warrior, and he can

0:53:47.400 --> 0:53:50.759
<v Speaker 1>hear him, and he can speak Delaware, and he can

0:53:50.800 --> 0:53:54.040
<v Speaker 1>speak multiple Native American languages fairly well, so he can

0:53:54.080 --> 0:53:56.200
<v Speaker 1>understand what they're saying. And they say, well, we're gonna

0:53:56.360 --> 0:53:58.400
<v Speaker 1>burn him at the state tomorrow. Pretty much, that's what

0:53:58.480 --> 0:54:01.800
<v Speaker 1>they decide. But there is a war chief that didn't

0:54:01.840 --> 0:54:06.000
<v Speaker 1>like that idea, and in the night came and turned

0:54:06.040 --> 0:54:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Wetzel loose, freed him and actually gave him a gun

0:54:11.680 --> 0:54:14.680
<v Speaker 1>and gave him a horse. And in his mind, a

0:54:14.719 --> 0:54:17.600
<v Speaker 1>great warrior, even if it was a warrior against his

0:54:17.640 --> 0:54:20.879
<v Speaker 1>own people, didn't deserve to die that way. What does

0:54:20.880 --> 0:54:27.880
<v Speaker 1>Wetzel do shoots the guy that's turned him loose. That's

0:54:28.000 --> 0:54:32.480
<v Speaker 1>cold blooded, brother. If you remember I mentioned that Louis

0:54:32.560 --> 0:54:36.640
<v Speaker 1>and his family participated in the Revolutionary War. Here's a

0:54:36.719 --> 0:54:40.480
<v Speaker 1>war story. This is an interesting story. This is a

0:54:40.520 --> 0:54:44.520
<v Speaker 1>revolutionary war story. Martin and Lewis are at Fort Bealer

0:54:44.600 --> 0:54:47.640
<v Speaker 1>in West Virginia. That they were in a log fort.

0:54:47.840 --> 0:54:51.319
<v Speaker 1>The fort was being attacked by Native Americans, which they

0:54:51.360 --> 0:54:55.080
<v Speaker 1>were on the side of the British, and so and

0:54:55.080 --> 0:54:57.520
<v Speaker 1>and there was they saw where some guys were digging

0:54:57.560 --> 0:55:01.279
<v Speaker 1>a tunnel under the wall. And Lewis is standing there

0:55:01.400 --> 0:55:03.919
<v Speaker 1>with his tomahawk and the first guy makes it under

0:55:03.960 --> 0:55:07.320
<v Speaker 1>the wall, tomahawks him in the head. They go ahead

0:55:07.320 --> 0:55:11.680
<v Speaker 1>and pull him through under the wall. Well, the Indian

0:55:11.800 --> 0:55:15.000
<v Speaker 1>behind that guy just sees his feet go under the wall.

0:55:15.320 --> 0:55:17.239
<v Speaker 1>And there's a war going on, so they can't hear

0:55:17.400 --> 0:55:20.440
<v Speaker 1>much and there's a thick wall there. Well, the second

0:55:20.480 --> 0:55:24.000
<v Speaker 1>Indian goes under the wall, comes up, there's Louis Wetsel

0:55:24.239 --> 0:55:29.120
<v Speaker 1>walk hits him, kills him. They kill six guys crawling

0:55:29.200 --> 0:55:32.359
<v Speaker 1>under the wall and just stacking the bodies before they

0:55:32.400 --> 0:55:34.719
<v Speaker 1>finally figured out what was You know, I don't know,

0:55:34.760 --> 0:55:39.160
<v Speaker 1>they quit coming under the wall. Isn't that wild brutal?

0:55:39.760 --> 0:55:42.200
<v Speaker 1>There are just too many stories to tell about Wessel,

0:55:42.400 --> 0:55:45.080
<v Speaker 1>but I can't take a swing and telling you about

0:55:45.160 --> 0:55:48.640
<v Speaker 1>his life without telling you about this one. He ended

0:55:48.719 --> 0:55:53.120
<v Speaker 1>up in Louisiana and got involved in this counterfeiting money scam.

0:55:53.239 --> 0:55:56.480
<v Speaker 1>Some say he got romantically involved with the Spanish officer's

0:55:56.560 --> 0:56:00.440
<v Speaker 1>wife and was framed. I would imagine the black locks

0:56:00.520 --> 0:56:02.640
<v Speaker 1>down to his calves would have been hard to look

0:56:02.640 --> 0:56:05.520
<v Speaker 1>away from him for some women. But that's neither here

0:56:05.600 --> 0:56:08.600
<v Speaker 1>nor there. But however it went down, he went to

0:56:08.680 --> 0:56:13.600
<v Speaker 1>prison twice for counterfeit money. However, just like the first

0:56:13.640 --> 0:56:16.880
<v Speaker 1>time he went to prison, he found a way to

0:56:17.000 --> 0:56:22.400
<v Speaker 1>get out. But the wild thing is is so the

0:56:22.480 --> 0:56:26.520
<v Speaker 1>second time that he escaped from confinement, and he was

0:56:26.560 --> 0:56:30.400
<v Speaker 1>in a real prison at this time, was he got

0:56:30.840 --> 0:56:34.759
<v Speaker 1>someone on the outside to bribe the head of the

0:56:34.800 --> 0:56:40.120
<v Speaker 1>prison paid him money, and Lewis Wetzel fakes being sick

0:56:40.840 --> 0:56:44.600
<v Speaker 1>and fakes his own death and they carry him out

0:56:44.640 --> 0:56:48.120
<v Speaker 1>in a coffin like Louis Wetzel's dead. I mean, the

0:56:48.160 --> 0:56:51.160
<v Speaker 1>prison is like Wetzell's dead. They're carrying him out in

0:56:51.160 --> 0:56:57.200
<v Speaker 1>the pine box they probably did, and then he gets

0:56:57.200 --> 0:57:01.160
<v Speaker 1>out and escapes, and it's just I mean, that's pretty bizarre.

0:57:01.280 --> 0:57:03.640
<v Speaker 1>But as far as I can tell, that is like

0:57:03.680 --> 0:57:07.960
<v Speaker 1>a fairly well documented thing that happened. Man the coffin

0:57:08.040 --> 0:57:13.960
<v Speaker 1>prison escape. That's classic. Man. If I'm ever wrongfully imprisoned,

0:57:14.120 --> 0:57:16.240
<v Speaker 1>and if i am, you guys will probably hear about it.

0:57:16.600 --> 0:57:20.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna remember this little stunt. With all the outlaw

0:57:20.120 --> 0:57:22.880
<v Speaker 1>and talk of late on this bargrease, I might need

0:57:22.920 --> 0:57:26.040
<v Speaker 1>to be thinking ahead. I still think Brent Reeves is

0:57:26.120 --> 0:57:29.440
<v Speaker 1>after me. But hey, we're all friends here and you

0:57:29.560 --> 0:57:31.520
<v Speaker 1>are the only ones who know about this, So y'all

0:57:31.520 --> 0:57:33.560
<v Speaker 1>be looking for me walking down the side of the road.

0:57:35.320 --> 0:57:39.480
<v Speaker 1>Here's Chip with some deep thoughts. What do you make

0:57:39.600 --> 0:57:43.600
<v Speaker 1>of the idea that at the time he was a hero,

0:57:44.200 --> 0:57:47.280
<v Speaker 1>he was a hero of the frontier. But then now

0:57:47.440 --> 0:57:50.520
<v Speaker 1>we look back at him and we see that he

0:57:50.680 --> 0:57:55.680
<v Speaker 1>was essentially a serial killer, was killing Native Americans for sport.

0:57:56.600 --> 0:57:59.040
<v Speaker 1>How do we What do you make of that? Let

0:57:59.040 --> 0:58:02.040
<v Speaker 1>me say this, and it's very difficult for us now

0:58:02.560 --> 0:58:05.320
<v Speaker 1>in midern times to put ourselves back on the frontier.

0:58:05.720 --> 0:58:07.920
<v Speaker 1>And I make this statement in one of my stories.

0:58:08.040 --> 0:58:10.960
<v Speaker 1>I said, and again I said, if he were alive today,

0:58:10.960 --> 0:58:14.080
<v Speaker 1>he would be labeled a serial killer. But early pioneers

0:58:14.120 --> 0:58:16.160
<v Speaker 1>living in the Upper Ohio River Valley and the late

0:58:16.200 --> 0:58:19.919
<v Speaker 1>seventeen hundreds, he was considered an avenger because they were

0:58:20.000 --> 0:58:24.320
<v Speaker 1>losing family friends to Indians and they didn't know how

0:58:24.360 --> 0:58:27.040
<v Speaker 1>to stop it. The only way they could stop it

0:58:27.160 --> 0:58:29.720
<v Speaker 1>is moved back east. And that's what where they came from.

0:58:29.720 --> 0:58:32.000
<v Speaker 1>When they didn't want to do that. They wanted the

0:58:32.120 --> 0:58:35.000
<v Speaker 1>land that was here. They wanted to live here. And

0:58:35.080 --> 0:58:39.920
<v Speaker 1>so for those families, here's a guy out front that

0:58:40.440 --> 0:58:43.200
<v Speaker 1>is killing the people that are killing us. So that's

0:58:43.240 --> 0:58:44.800
<v Speaker 1>the way they looked at it. And it was a

0:58:44.840 --> 0:58:49.000
<v Speaker 1>time period of significant warfare and conflict constant, so it

0:58:49.120 --> 0:58:52.600
<v Speaker 1>wasn't It wasn't today to think of all these people

0:58:52.680 --> 0:58:55.720
<v Speaker 1>dying and houses being burned down, and I mean it

0:58:56.080 --> 0:58:59.640
<v Speaker 1>wet sold so many times told stories or there were

0:58:59.640 --> 0:59:04.040
<v Speaker 1>stories involved of his peers being their their houses being

0:59:04.040 --> 0:59:07.240
<v Speaker 1>burned down, their families being murdered, and I mean think

0:59:07.240 --> 0:59:10.120
<v Speaker 1>about that today, like if that happened one time in

0:59:10.160 --> 0:59:12.240
<v Speaker 1>my life, would be a big deal. Oh it would.

0:59:12.240 --> 0:59:15.360
<v Speaker 1>I'd write a book about it. But how traumatizing that

0:59:15.400 --> 0:59:19.439
<v Speaker 1>would be and how that would affect society, create instability,

0:59:19.600 --> 0:59:23.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean like internal personal crisis. You know, here we've

0:59:23.840 --> 0:59:26.880
<v Speaker 1>had our gas prices are you know, five dollars a gallon,

0:59:27.240 --> 0:59:30.520
<v Speaker 1>and people are nervous and getting crazy. Well, what if

0:59:30.560 --> 0:59:33.320
<v Speaker 1>there was a pretty good chance that your house at

0:59:33.360 --> 0:59:35.000
<v Speaker 1>some point in your life was going to be burned

0:59:35.000 --> 0:59:37.919
<v Speaker 1>down and a fair chance that your family might even

0:59:37.920 --> 0:59:42.360
<v Speaker 1>be murdered. Like what, who would you then look up to?

0:59:42.960 --> 0:59:45.920
<v Speaker 1>Who would you look to for security? And here's this

0:59:45.960 --> 0:59:49.960
<v Speaker 1>guy that is taken on the threat And so yeah,

0:59:49.960 --> 0:59:52.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm not justifying it. I'm just trying to make sense

0:59:52.680 --> 0:59:54.680
<v Speaker 1>of it. But you're right, if we were back in

0:59:54.760 --> 0:59:57.760
<v Speaker 1>those times, our heroes back then would be a lot

0:59:57.800 --> 1:00:01.560
<v Speaker 1>different than they are now. Our hero now are sports figures,

1:00:01.600 --> 1:00:03.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, people like that. That wouldn't have been the

1:00:03.920 --> 1:00:06.880
<v Speaker 1>case back then because those people were dealing with life

1:00:06.880 --> 1:00:09.080
<v Speaker 1>and death every day. I like what you said there,

1:00:09.120 --> 1:00:12.040
<v Speaker 1>that our heroes are sports figures today. Back then they

1:00:12.080 --> 1:00:15.360
<v Speaker 1>would have been the frontiers. We're always looking for heroes,

1:00:15.360 --> 1:00:21.480
<v Speaker 1>aren't We's human nature. Here's Steve with his final synopsis

1:00:21.520 --> 1:00:25.320
<v Speaker 1>of Wetzel and the time period he lived in. I

1:00:25.440 --> 1:00:28.760
<v Speaker 1>think I think about with Wetzel is informed by our

1:00:28.840 --> 1:00:34.919
<v Speaker 1>understanding now of what happens to veterans, first responders, law

1:00:35.040 --> 1:00:38.480
<v Speaker 1>enforcement individuals who are just subjected to these like really

1:00:39.080 --> 1:00:42.760
<v Speaker 1>traumatic experiences. Were now very versed in this idea of

1:00:42.760 --> 1:00:47.040
<v Speaker 1>of PTSD. Um. I know that my own father, from

1:00:47.080 --> 1:00:50.600
<v Speaker 1>his experiences in the war, suffered from PTSD. Right, I

1:00:50.640 --> 1:00:54.000
<v Speaker 1>think that some sort of future historians, some kind of

1:00:54.040 --> 1:01:00.520
<v Speaker 1>future like physician slash historian individual. Well, someday look get like,

1:01:01.360 --> 1:01:06.000
<v Speaker 1>how is all of that death and violence to what

1:01:06.080 --> 1:01:10.400
<v Speaker 1>extent was it scrambling the brain of all those people involved?

1:01:11.200 --> 1:01:14.440
<v Speaker 1>Do you know what I mean? If you now came

1:01:14.480 --> 1:01:18.360
<v Speaker 1>and said, if you're talking about a guy down the road, Oh,

1:01:18.480 --> 1:01:24.440
<v Speaker 1>he was shot, kidnapped and shot, escaped, watched his father die,

1:01:24.640 --> 1:01:29.040
<v Speaker 1>watched his brother die, lost all this family to all

1:01:29.080 --> 1:01:33.840
<v Speaker 1>this bloodshed, siblings were kidnapped, and then you learned that

1:01:33.880 --> 1:01:37.720
<v Speaker 1>he went on to be a mass murderer, a serial killer.

1:01:38.720 --> 1:01:40.160
<v Speaker 1>What would be the first thing that would come out

1:01:40.200 --> 1:01:45.480
<v Speaker 1>of your mouth? Figured, yeah, and and and it's it's

1:01:45.520 --> 1:01:48.240
<v Speaker 1>like when you if you grow up watching like westerns,

1:01:48.280 --> 1:01:50.120
<v Speaker 1>you know and I know you have and I haven't.

1:01:50.760 --> 1:01:56.400
<v Speaker 1>Warror movies with the heroes are celebrated for their indifference

1:01:56.440 --> 1:02:00.920
<v Speaker 1>to it. Right, you shoot the bad guy down and

1:02:00.960 --> 1:02:05.160
<v Speaker 1>go have a drink, play some cards. But there there

1:02:05.240 --> 1:02:08.160
<v Speaker 1>must have just been a lot of I don't like

1:02:08.200 --> 1:02:09.640
<v Speaker 1>to run around. You know, I'm not one of the

1:02:09.640 --> 1:02:12.560
<v Speaker 1>people that runs around like attributing everything around me to

1:02:12.680 --> 1:02:17.560
<v Speaker 1>some version of childhood trauma. But this isn't that. This

1:02:17.680 --> 1:02:26.480
<v Speaker 1>is dismembered hog eating tomahawks, bodies, man of relatives and

1:02:26.520 --> 1:02:30.400
<v Speaker 1>stuff on both sides of this. Let's call the war

1:02:31.360 --> 1:02:40.560
<v Speaker 1>just mass I mean, ruthless, inhumane atrocities, right, And it's like,

1:02:41.240 --> 1:02:45.280
<v Speaker 1>to what degree was all that just fueling itself? M Like,

1:02:45.360 --> 1:02:47.520
<v Speaker 1>to what degree where all these people or many of

1:02:47.560 --> 1:02:51.800
<v Speaker 1>these people just kind of, you know, suffering from these things,

1:02:52.080 --> 1:02:56.240
<v Speaker 1>Like it's unimaginable to us now, had to have scrambled

1:02:56.280 --> 1:02:59.080
<v Speaker 1>their brains out. They were tougher than us. But how

1:02:59.120 --> 1:03:02.680
<v Speaker 1>tough can you be? Man? Humans weren't supposed to live

1:03:02.720 --> 1:03:04.720
<v Speaker 1>that way. Well, that's the thing. That's that's the part

1:03:04.800 --> 1:03:12.680
<v Speaker 1>is I think about all the time. Lewis Wetzel, the

1:03:12.840 --> 1:03:17.560
<v Speaker 1>Death Wind himself ended up near Natchez, Mississippi, and died

1:03:17.800 --> 1:03:20.720
<v Speaker 1>at his cousin's house in eighteen o eight at the

1:03:20.760 --> 1:03:24.600
<v Speaker 1>age of forty five, probably from yellow fever. He was

1:03:24.720 --> 1:03:29.080
<v Speaker 1>buried in Mississippi, but in nineteen forty two, a hundred

1:03:29.120 --> 1:03:33.520
<v Speaker 1>and thirty four years after his death, they exhumed his

1:03:33.720 --> 1:03:37.800
<v Speaker 1>grave and moved his remains back to McCreary Cemetery in

1:03:37.880 --> 1:03:42.840
<v Speaker 1>Marshall County, West Virginia. That's a bold move. They claimed

1:03:43.040 --> 1:03:46.200
<v Speaker 1>his kathleenked hair was still visible and that there was

1:03:46.200 --> 1:03:50.160
<v Speaker 1>a musket lyne beside him in the coffin. This grave

1:03:50.360 --> 1:03:54.320
<v Speaker 1>movement was likely connected to the author saying Gray re

1:03:54.520 --> 1:03:58.280
<v Speaker 1>igniting an interest in the old frontiersman, and then a

1:03:58.320 --> 1:04:01.680
<v Speaker 1>bunch of these other guys right and about him. Man,

1:04:01.720 --> 1:04:04.760
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna have to start talking about some lighthearted stuff

1:04:04.800 --> 1:04:08.000
<v Speaker 1>on the Bear Grease podcast to pull ourselves out of

1:04:08.080 --> 1:04:11.200
<v Speaker 1>the dark ditch that we found ourselves in. As a

1:04:11.200 --> 1:04:14.680
<v Speaker 1>matter of fact, the next episode it's gonna be a

1:04:14.760 --> 1:04:18.520
<v Speaker 1>deep dive into the life of Mr Rogers. Or I

1:04:18.560 --> 1:04:22.200
<v Speaker 1>guess we could just move on and know that we've

1:04:22.240 --> 1:04:26.160
<v Speaker 1>all come from a dark and bloody past as full

1:04:26.160 --> 1:04:30.680
<v Speaker 1>of some wild stuff. The wild nature, physical hardship, and

1:04:30.760 --> 1:04:35.400
<v Speaker 1>brutality of the lives of those on the American Frontier

1:04:36.040 --> 1:04:40.480
<v Speaker 1>continue to put my life in modern times into perspective.

1:04:42.120 --> 1:04:45.440
<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much for listening to Bear Grease. I feel

1:04:45.480 --> 1:04:48.440
<v Speaker 1>like a giant monkey is off my back now that

1:04:48.520 --> 1:04:52.360
<v Speaker 1>Steve has his podcast on the death wind. Hey be

1:04:52.560 --> 1:04:55.280
<v Speaker 1>sure to check out the meat Eater dot com for

1:04:55.400 --> 1:05:00.120
<v Speaker 1>all kinds of hunting, camping and outdoor apparel stuff. You

1:05:00.120 --> 1:05:03.960
<v Speaker 1>could even get a super cool bear, grease or believer

1:05:04.080 --> 1:05:07.640
<v Speaker 1>hat there. And thanks again for listening and have a

1:05:07.680 --> 1:05:10.920
<v Speaker 1>great week. M