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Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them, are

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Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they

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Speaker 2: have individualism? It's the patriarchy, ZEFFI bast start changing with

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Speaker 2: the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 1: I welcome to the Bechdel Cast. I am Illuminati, horny

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Speaker 1: overlord of the secret sex called Caitlyn Durante.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Caitlyn's friend Jamie, and welcome and welcome to

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Speaker 3: our sex party. You might notice our titties are out.

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Speaker 3: That's going to keep happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh. Welcome

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Speaker 3: to the Bechtel Cast. I'm Jamie, and this is our

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Speaker 3: show where we take a look at your favorite movies

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Speaker 3: using an intersexual feminist lens, which will be so fun today,

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Speaker 3: using the buck Still test as a jumping off point

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Speaker 3: for discussion. But Caitlin, what the fuck is that?

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. It's a media metric created by queer

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Speaker 4: cartoonist Alison Bechdel. Many versions of the test. The one

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Speaker 4: that we use requires that two characters of a marginalized

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Speaker 4: gender have names, they must speak to each other, and

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Speaker 4: their conversation must be about something other than a man.

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Speaker 4: So we'll just see about that for this movie, which

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Speaker 4: is Eyes Wide Shut a Christmas movie? A Christmas movie,

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Speaker 4: I really do.

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Speaker 3: I mean it is a Christmas movie. This, I you know,

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Speaker 3: not to be all twenty twelve about it, because I

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Speaker 3: feel like in twenty twelve people love to be like,

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Speaker 3: did you know Diehard is a Christmas movie? And it's

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Speaker 3: like calmed enough, you know, find a new struggle.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: In any case, Eyes Bideshut is canonically a Christmas movie.

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Speaker 3: I don't think the source material is.

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Speaker 4: But the source material takes place during Marty Gras.

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Speaker 3: Oh oh right, yes, so h no, but Stanley Kuprick

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Speaker 3: loves a twinkly little light excuse and so he's like, okay,

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Speaker 3: we got to get these tongs and it looks beautiful.

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Speaker 3: I'm so excited to talk about this movie. So let's

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Speaker 3: just get into it. Let's get our guests in here

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Speaker 3: for crying out loud.

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Speaker 4: Yes, let's He is a comedian host of the podcast Upgood.

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Speaker 4: You remember him from our episode on The Little Mermaid.

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Speaker 4: It's Honey Pluton.

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Speaker 5: Hello, I'm so happy to be back.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back.

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Speaker 6: I know I feel like The Little Mermaid to Eyes

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Speaker 6: White Shut, Pipeline doesn't really exist.

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Speaker 5: So I am glad.

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Speaker 6: I mean maybe there's some similarities I guess within maybe

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Speaker 6: the curious misogyny of both movies perhaps, but that kind

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Speaker 6: of exists throughout media, you know.

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Speaker 5: Sure Incarnate, I.

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Speaker 3: Think you're you're innovating the space today. This pipeline will

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Speaker 3: exist after today. Yeah, so thanks for joining U tells

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Speaker 3: what your your relationship to this movie is.

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Speaker 6: I watched it for the first time last year, actually

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Speaker 6: because I think it was one of the only Kubrick

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Speaker 6: movies I had never seen, and I really was immediately enchanted.

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Speaker 6: Upon first viewing last year and then watching it again

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Speaker 6: over the past two days, I really just fell deeper

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Speaker 6: and deeper in lust with the movie.

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Speaker 5: To be honest, I.

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Speaker 6: Think it's just like it's so hot, it's so freaky.

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Speaker 6: I love Tom Cruise. It's such I want to know

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Speaker 6: if y'all were Tom Cruise heads. Do y'all like him?

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Speaker 4: Okay, we setting aside his not.

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Speaker 3: Ethically but performance wise yes of course.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, scientology, I mean it's so and like also thinking

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Speaker 6: about their relationship, like pop culturally, it's such a fun movie,

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Speaker 6: I know, I just thinking about the infamous picture of

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Speaker 6: Nicole Kidman divorce off.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, the picture. No, Oh my god, show

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Speaker 3: me pull it up. It's a famous picture of Nicole

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Speaker 3: Kitman walking out of her lawyer's office the day she

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Speaker 3: divorced Tom Cruise. And it's like the most raw joy

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Speaker 3: you've ever seen on a human faith.

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Speaker 6: It's like her hands are down at her side, palms open,

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Speaker 6: her chest like solar plexus is outstretched, and her face

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Speaker 6: is just that of like joy and relief, radiating a sigh.

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Speaker 3: And for some reason it's was taken from multiple angles.

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Speaker 4: But I bet every paparazzi in the world was just like,

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Speaker 4: outside ready for that.

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Speaker 3: Wait, Caitlyn, pull this up. It's so amazing.

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Speaker 5: I'm looking at it too. Oh, it's so wow. It's

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Speaker 5: so good.

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Speaker 3: I've wanted to get a framed photo of that for

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Speaker 3: my house for a while. Oh my god, that would

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Speaker 3: be a great Halloween costume.

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Speaker 6: I was just gonna say, yeah, it's really it's a

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Speaker 6: signature look.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, amazing. But yeah, despite Nicole Kidman hating being married

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Speaker 4: to him and his horrible personal life, I do tragically

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Speaker 4: love Tom Cruise movies.

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Speaker 3: He's got the juice.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, he's an amazing actor.

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Speaker 6: He really does have the risk and how much taller

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Speaker 6: is she than him?

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Speaker 3: I think Nicole Kidman's like five ten, five eleven, She's

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Speaker 3: pretty tall.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: I really love the movie magic that's present where they're

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Speaker 6: always at eye level to one another.

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Speaker 3: I know, I was like, I wonder at whose insistence

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Speaker 3: that was impossible to say, impossible.

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Speaker 5: To know there's no way to really get that answer.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, No, men are famously secure, so it's kind of

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Speaker 3: you know, yes, but yeah, I mean the performances in

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Speaker 3: this movie are I think, both great and weird as

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Speaker 3: a terrible weird. I can't wait to talk about this movie.

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Speaker 3: So you are a recent convert to the eyes wide

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Speaker 3: shut averse.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 6: And I watching it again over the past two days,

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Speaker 6: I was like, it just is and watching it again

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Speaker 6: knowing we were going to be discussing it obviously, I

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Speaker 6: was just kind of starting to like call the themes like,

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Speaker 6: I'm just really obsessed with how hell bent straight people

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Speaker 6: are on infidelity, and I don't know, you know, it's

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Speaker 6: like straight people are obsessed with cheating. It's just like

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Speaker 6: in this really unique way that obviously is so like

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Speaker 6: present within the movie, this like psycho sexual ringer of

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Speaker 6: infidelity and how that is like a tether to completely

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Speaker 6: unraveling your consciousness and your psyche.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Jamie, what's your relationship with the movie?

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Speaker 5: Uh?

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Speaker 3: Kind of complicated. I've seen this movie. I think this

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Speaker 3: was my third time seeing it. The first time I

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Speaker 3: saw it was in college and I was like, that

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Speaker 3: movie looks cool. I didn't really understand what was going on,

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Speaker 3: but sure, why not? Like I sort of but I

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Speaker 3: think this is a movie that really uh ages with you. Well,

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Speaker 3: I guess because each subsequent time I've seen it, I

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Speaker 3: feel like I've gotten a little bit more out of it.

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Speaker 3: And then this time, especially doing some research on the context,

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Speaker 3: I feel like I have a totally different feeling about it.

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Speaker 3: And I've come around to really appreciating this movie because

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, when I saw it, I also

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Speaker 3: went in Gina Bloom, guest of the show, did an

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Speaker 3: eesweed Shut themed comedy show I think, like last year,

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Speaker 3: and I know, so I rewatched it for Gina's show.

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Speaker 3: She had the robe. It was great. I'll see if

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Speaker 3: fucking dig up a picture of it please. That was

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Speaker 3: really fun. But yeah, I don't know. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: this viewing in particular, especially with the context of the

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Speaker 3: source material and really doing a close look. Like I

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Speaker 3: just I have like a whole new theory of how

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Speaker 3: I what the I think the internal logic of this

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Speaker 3: movie is. And yeah, I mean we'll talk about it,

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Speaker 3: but it's like I used to be like, what a

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Speaker 3: weird movie with stilted performances that are very it's like pretty,

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Speaker 3: you know, male gazy, and all of that is true,

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Speaker 3: but I feel like I understand sort of the intention

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Speaker 3: behind it. And we're like caught in this like Tom

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Speaker 3: Cruise fugue state because he's like and that every woman

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Speaker 3: like we're seeing the movie I think from like Bill's perspective,

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Speaker 3: and women are just bodies that are ciphers to him,

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Speaker 3: and so all we see his bodies and blank stares

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Speaker 3: from women, not because that's how women are viewed by Kubrick.

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Speaker 3: Not to say that he was perfect, but like I

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Speaker 3: don't think that that's the values of the movie. But

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Speaker 3: I think it's like we're just seeing him how he

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Speaker 3: sees women. So it's just vacant stares, robots, sexual propositions,

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Speaker 3: and everyone kind of looks like his wife, and everyone

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Speaker 3: kind of has a boyfriend that looks like slightly uglier

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Speaker 3: Tom Cruise and I just I don't know. I got

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Speaker 3: so much out of it this time, and I'm excited

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Speaker 3: to talk about it. What's your Street, Kaitlyn.

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Speaker 4: I had seen the movie for the first time in

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Speaker 4: the Great Caitlin Movie Binge of two thousand and five,

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Speaker 4: Never Forget, Never Forget, and I there's a lot I

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Speaker 4: didn't remember about it from that first viewing Alan Cumming

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Speaker 4: for example, for example, what a jump scare love it.

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Speaker 4: I was under the impression that a much larger chunk

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Speaker 4: of the movie took place at the like sex cult party,

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Speaker 4: because that's kind of the only thing I remembered about

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Speaker 4: the movie. So I just sort of assumed, oh, that

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Speaker 4: was like most of the.

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Speaker 3: Movie, it's mostly Tom Cruise walking around, walking away.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I do like this movie. I will say that

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Speaker 4: the pacing makes me furious. It's such a slow movie.

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Speaker 4: It is one hour longer than it needs to be.

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Speaker 4: I could re edit this movie to be a cool

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Speaker 4: one hundred minutes. But I do like the you know

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Speaker 4: intrigue that it builds, and you know, he goes to

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Speaker 4: the party and you're just like, oh my god. And

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Speaker 4: then I watched it again last year in a theater

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Speaker 4: one of these oh, theaters in La that just like

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Speaker 4: screens older movies. I went to one of those and

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Speaker 4: saw it and it was partially because so not to

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Speaker 4: brag here, but last year around this time, I went

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Speaker 4: to a few sex parties we wo we woo, and

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Speaker 4: anyone I told this to, which was a lot of people,

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Speaker 4: ninety nine percent of them, would be like, oh, like

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Speaker 4: an eyes wide shut was it like that? And the

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Speaker 4: sex parties I went to were nothing like that, But

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Speaker 4: that's like everyone's frame of reference.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, you weren't going to some like Illuminati descent of

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Speaker 6: the Worswazzi where you're like.

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Speaker 3: Right, what are there other I'm trying to think, are

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Speaker 3: there other like pop culture touchstones about sex parties or

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Speaker 3: is it really we just have been culturally conditioned to

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Speaker 3: think that every sex party is the Illuminati, realizing that

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Speaker 3: might just be what I thought.

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Speaker 6: It's like eyes wide shot are like epscen Island, right,

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Speaker 6: It's like that's all that we know, right.

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Speaker 4: Right, So these sex parties were nothing like either of

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Speaker 4: those things, and it was just like horny, shy people

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Speaker 4: going to a party and like trying to talk to

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Speaker 4: each other.

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Speaker 3: I love it, Yeah, And it sounded like you had

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Speaker 3: really good experiences there generally, Yeah, they were fine. I

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Speaker 3: almost went once and then bailed because that's my vibe.

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Speaker 4: It's a very interesting social experiment to go to a

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Speaker 4: sex party, especially if you're by yourself.

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Speaker 6: Did you have to answer a secret question like in

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Speaker 6: the movie?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they they gave me a series of passwords that

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Speaker 4: I had to know.

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Speaker 3: I want to be booked at a sex party. I'm

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Speaker 3: not like, I don't think I would thrive as a participant,

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Speaker 3: but if they have, for if you book local sex

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Speaker 3: parties and you're interested in maybe some light stand up comedy.

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Speaker 4: Right, So one of the ones I went to has

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Speaker 4: a focus on like performance, and most of the performances

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Speaker 4: were like sex someone. Yeah they were sexy someone doing

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Speaker 4: like pole dancing and things like that. But there was

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Speaker 4: one comic and I didn't even know that was an option,

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Speaker 4: or else I would have been.

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Speaker 6: Like interrupting the Gregorian chance with a tight five.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, just to just to make everyone

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Speaker 3: feel safe, that would be. Yeah, that's that's now on

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Speaker 3: my cursed gigs wish list.

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Speaker 5: It was.

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Speaker 4: It seemed like he had a good time, and then

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Speaker 4: I went to I went up to him afterwards, and

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Speaker 4: I was like, who books this anyway?

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Speaker 3: Look, I mean shows, shows are sparse in LA. Right now.

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Speaker 3: The show is a show, a show is a show,

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Speaker 3: a gug is a gig.

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Speaker 4: Stage time is stage time. Yep, that's true. So anyway, uh,

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Speaker 4: people kept being like, oh, why is Wide Shut? Right?

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Speaker 4: And then I was like, right, I need to rewatch

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Speaker 4: this movie. And that's what prompted me to go to

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Speaker 4: see at the theater. And then I watched it a

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Speaker 4: couple of times to prep for this. So you know,

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Speaker 4: it's now very top of mind and I have a

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Speaker 4: lot to say about it. Let's take a quick break

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Speaker 4: and then we'll come back to do the recap.

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Speaker 3: Let's do it and we're back.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So here is the recap of Eyes Wide Shut.

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Speaker 4: The first one second of the movie is Nicole Kidman

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Speaker 4: taking off her dress and showing her bare ass.

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Speaker 3: Yeah okay, look, by our metrics, not a strong start

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Speaker 3: from a horny emetric. Amazing start. Nicole Kidman is unbelievable

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Speaker 3: levels I've hot in this movie. This is not an

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Speaker 3: original observation at all, but oh my god, oh my god.

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Speaker 5: Yeah no, she's a star for sure.

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Speaker 6: She's like alluring and aloof but still like with it

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Speaker 6: and sharp, you know, classic.

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Speaker 5: She's a bombshell for sure.

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Speaker 3: She's doing so much. Yeah, and I really like, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, like, I feel like I was able to

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Speaker 3: appreciate her performance so much more this time because she's

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Speaker 3: not even acting like a person. She's acting the way

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Speaker 3: her husband sees her. It's just like and it's her

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Speaker 3: husband and it's.

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Speaker 4: Her real life husband, and yeah, and she.

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Speaker 3: Secretly wants to divorce it.

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Speaker 5: Like, right, did they meet on set? Do you'll have

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Speaker 5: that info?

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Speaker 4: Not this set?

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Speaker 3: No, they'd been married for almost ten years. Yeah, they got.

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Speaker 5: Were married for that long.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they were married. If I'm remembering correctly, they were

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Speaker 3: married from nineteen ninety to two thousand and one. So

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Speaker 3: this was like so scary, I know, I like, I mean,

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Speaker 3: she really earned that fist.

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Speaker 5: Yes that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they were married for over ten years and they

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Speaker 3: met on the side of a different movie I don't

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Speaker 3: remember wh okay.

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Speaker 4: But also this movie started shooting in nineteen ninety six

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Speaker 4: and it famously lasted, so it was like it has

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Speaker 4: a Guinness Book of World Records record for like the

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Speaker 4: longest consecutive shoot of a movie.

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Speaker 3: Or at least an American movie, Stanley Kuper It loves

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Speaker 3: to take his time psychologically torture his cast and crew.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 6: And then I like to Caitlyn say that the movie

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Speaker 6: was too long. I love a short movie, but I

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Speaker 6: think because this movie is literally about time Cruise being

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Speaker 6: a cock and like unable to get his nut. It's

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Speaker 6: like it's like two and a half hours of him edging,

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Speaker 6: like he's unable to ever true.

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Speaker 5: I'm like, so I was right.

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Speaker 6: I was down to be part of the plotting because

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Speaker 6: it really felt like gooning at a certain point, like

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Speaker 6: it was edging.

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Speaker 3: I was, yeah, I was like, there's a really good

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Speaker 3: video essay about this movie by one of my favorite

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Speaker 3: YouTuber's Broid Channel, who did a great sort of round

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Speaker 3: up of like the history of this production, and yeah,

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Speaker 3: part of it was, like, I mean, it definitely was

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Speaker 3: speculated that the length of this shoot and the intensity

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Speaker 3: of their scenes together did contribute to like the end

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Speaker 3: of Cruise and Kidman that like it was just it

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Speaker 3: was a lot, but also that like, like speaking to

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Speaker 3: your point, honey, that Stanley Kubrick a lot of like

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Speaker 3: crew members were like he was really enjoying clucking Tom

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Speaker 3: Cruise to the nth degree and like stuff that I

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Speaker 3: don't I wouldn't know or remember, but like once she

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Speaker 3: said it, I was like, oh, yeah, Like there was

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Speaker 3: a lot of speculation around Tom Cruise's sexuality at that time,

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Speaker 3: which Kubrick makes sure to explicitly add like and if

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Speaker 3: you know, you know, reference of him, you know, being

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Speaker 3: like being harassed by a bunch.

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Speaker 5: Of all the apps were I was like, right, like that, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: that makes sense to me.

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Speaker 6: That was like more like a pop cultural like top down,

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Speaker 6: let's include this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it felt like he was sort of I mean,

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Speaker 3: and it's kind of hard to be like, oh, it

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Speaker 3: feels so bad for Tom Cruise, but it was like

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Speaker 3: that was pretty harsh because that was changed from the source.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we'll talk about it, but like the source

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Speaker 3: material was changed. It was an anti symmitic group of

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Speaker 3: men in the source material, but Kubrick changes it so

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Speaker 3: that they're throwing homophobic slurs at a wasp, so it

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Speaker 3: seems more like pushed at Tom Cruise specifically, or that's

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Speaker 3: what people speculated at the time.

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Speaker 5: Got it.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So that's the.

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Speaker 3: Second one of the movie.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's after the first second of seeing Nicole Kyman's ass.

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Speaker 4: So this is Alice. She and her husband. Her husband

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Speaker 4: and husband, doctor Bill Harford played by Tom Cruise, and

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Speaker 4: their seven year old daughter Helena, live in a very

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Speaker 4: nice and large home in New York City. Ever heard

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Speaker 4: of it?

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Speaker 3: Poor Helena left in the damn dust this.

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Speaker 4: So Bill and Alice go to this big, fancy Christmas

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Speaker 4: party and are greeted by the host, Victor Ziegler played

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Speaker 4: by Sidney Pollock. At the party, Bill recognizes the piano

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Speaker 4: player Nick Nightingale, played by sometimes actor, sometimes director of

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Speaker 4: tar Todd Field.

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Speaker 5: Oh interesting, Wiles, I know, I didn't.

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Speaker 3: I didn't connect that until until afterwards.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. And he tells Bill that he'll be playing at

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Speaker 4: this club downtown for the next two weeks and that

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Speaker 4: Bill should stop by sometimes so that they can catch up. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 4: Alice is approached by a man named Sanders Savost who

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Speaker 4: comes on very strongly and hornile. They dance a bit.

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Speaker 4: On the other side of the room, Bill is flirting

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Speaker 4: with two young women, these beautiful models.

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Speaker 3: Badly, I might add, which is like another like Kober

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Speaker 3: Cucking Cruise moment where it's like flirt but do a

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Speaker 3: horrible job.

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Speaker 4: But it doesn't stop them from being horny for him,

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Speaker 4: and they're kind of throwing themselves at him, but he's

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Speaker 4: interrupted when the host, Victor Ziegler, summons Bill to tend

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Speaker 4: to a woman named Mandy who has just overdosed on

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Speaker 4: a combination of heroin and cocaine, and doctor Bill saves

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Speaker 4: her life and Victor is like, don't tell anyone about

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00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:38,159
Speaker 4: this wink. Now downstairs, Alice is still dancing with that

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Speaker 4: guy and it's again very horny.

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Speaker 6: Her drunk acting, and this part was by what some

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Speaker 6: of my favorite scenes in the whole movie, where she's like,

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Speaker 6: she's like, so it's kind of like klanapin Baby, where

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Speaker 6: she's kind of like Marilyn Monroe, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 6: and really taking her time, like it was so so fab.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she's so good.

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Speaker 4: But she seems to kind of come to her senses

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Speaker 4: and she realizes that she needs to find her husband

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Speaker 4: and go home. So we cut to Alice naked again.

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Speaker 4: She and Bill are back at home and they're kissing

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Speaker 4: on the lips. The next day, the two of them

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Speaker 4: are going about their lives, Bill at work seeing patients,

377
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Speaker 4: Alice at home with their daughter, and then that night

378
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Speaker 4: Alice and Bill are in bed together doing marijuana. No,

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Speaker 4: I know, no, and Alice asks him if he had

380
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Speaker 4: sex with those two hot women he was talking to

381
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Speaker 4: at the party, and he's like, what, No, were they hot?

382
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:51,359
Speaker 4: I didn't even notice anyway, What about the man you

383
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Speaker 4: were dancing with? And Alice is like, yeah, he wanted

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Speaker 4: to fuck me. And then they have a whole conversation

385
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Speaker 4: argument about how men and women approach sex differently, and

386
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Speaker 4: Bill is being very prescriptive and presumptuous about gender roles,

387
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Speaker 4: basically saying women don't think about sex constantly the way

388
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Speaker 4: men do, and Alice is like, oh, really, well, how

389
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,640
Speaker 4: about that time that I saw a naval officer when

390
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Speaker 4: we went on vacation and how I fantasized about ruining

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Speaker 4: my wife to be with him for one night. And

392
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Speaker 4: she's like, yeah, I was prepared to like throw everything

393
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Speaker 4: I had away, my my husband, my family, my daughter

394
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Speaker 4: just to be with this guy who I didn't.

395
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Speaker 3: Even meet again. Helena found dead. Na Ditch like justice

396
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Speaker 3: for Helena.

397
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Speaker 5: Literally, she's like, what's for dinner? Though I'm so hungry.

398
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Speaker 5: She's like.

399
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Speaker 3: Exactly, Helena's raising herself. Yes, that I mean, And oh god,

400
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,399
Speaker 3: that seems so good and yeah, this like I don't know,

401
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 3: I'm sure that there's like commentary to this too that

402
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,639
Speaker 3: you know, like doctor Bill is the primary medical care

403
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 3: for so many women, and he's like thirty seven and

404
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 3: just learned that women can be horny, like right for

405
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 3: not their husband and this I feel like that that moment,

406
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 3: like his brain is broken. And then my theory is

407
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 3: the rest of the movie is kind of like a

408
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 3: dream that he has. I don't believe that's my hot

409
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 3: digg is I don't believe most of the movie actually happens.

410
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 4: Okay.

411
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 6: Also in that scene too where they're arguing Nicole Kimman's

412
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 6: character like she's the only one who's even able to

413
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Speaker 6: tell the truth.

414
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 5: Like he's so like there's like a filter.

415
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Speaker 6: Between what he thinks he can acquire for himself with

416
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 6: his sexuality and what he feels confident and able to

417
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 6: say it. He's just like this, like liar, he he's

418
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 6: unable to like sacrament anything because he doesn't actually know

419
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Speaker 6: what he wants and he can't put that to words.

420
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Speaker 3: Yeah, feels so tom Cruise coded, Like it's so well cast. Yeah,

421
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 3: like it's wild, especially like watching it more carefully to

422
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 3: get ready for this, the like effortlessness that he lives

423
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 3: with or like takes advantage of his own station power

424
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 3: how he's perceived. He's like, you have to talk.

425
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Speaker 5: I'm a doctor with his doctor card. I'm a doctor

426
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 5: like they're cops. No, literally, I'm like, are you like this?

427
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 5: SVU was so funny doctor.

428
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 4: Clashing his like medical ID card as if he's like

429
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 4: an FBI agent, being like, here's my credential.

430
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 5: Literally, men in black.

431
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 3: It's so so great.

432
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 4: Bill is listening to this story that Alice is telling

433
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 4: about how she fantasized about having an affair with this

434
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 4: stranger basically, and Bill does not like this story, and

435
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 4: he thinks about it for the rest of the movie.

436
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 4: But then he gets a phone call that a patient

437
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 4: of his, a man named Lou, had just passed away,

438
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 4: so Bill goes to pay his respects. He's imagining the

439
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 4: naval officer having sex with his wife on the way,

440
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 4: and then when Bill gets there, Lou's daughter Marion is sad,

441
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 4: of course, but she also kisses Bill and tells him

442
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 4: that she loves him, and he's like, we barely know

443
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 4: each other. But this like reinforces what Alice had just

444
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 4: told him. As far as like if you men only

445
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 4: knew how women are horny too, right, and this.

446
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 3: Is another moment, and then I hopefully there was like,

447
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 3: fans of this movie, you are gonna be like Jamie

448
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 3: is a dumb ass. But I really do like I

449
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 3: was getting fully pilled as I was watching it this

450
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 3: time where she's acting irrationally right, her hair is styled

451
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 3: to look like Nicole Kidman's, and then her husband to

452
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 3: be shows up and he right his style. He kind

453
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 3: of like Tom Cruise completely, So I think he's just

454
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 3: like projecting mirror images everywhere he goes, and like once

455
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 3: she says it, every woman acts irrationally horny towards him,

456
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 3: And like, I just think that that conversation with Alice

457
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 3: breaks his brain and then the rest of his of

458
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 3: the movie is like him having this weird protracted dream

459
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 3: trying to process and like failing to process that information.

460
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, I like that theory.

461
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 6: I like that too, And it just shows the like

462
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 6: lack of totality that he sees any women as where

463
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 6: it's like my wife is, you know, the mother and

464
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 6: my children. It's kind of this like virginize Mary, and

465
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 6: then you're you just kind of like like you're saying

466
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 6: project that onto every other woman that you see, because

467
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 6: you only understand women as a role that they inherently

468
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 6: already negotiate with you.

469
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 3: Yeah. And it's like his own insecurity too, because it's

470
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 3: like he's lying and almost cheating on her so many times.

471
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 3: But he never closes too, which I found was interesting.

472
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 5: He's a he can't close.

473
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 3: He is he can't close, but he's somehow irrationally presented

474
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 3: with infinite opportunities. Like I'm just like, this isn't really

475
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 3: I don't know, I kind of I'm like, is this

476
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 3: my favorite movie?

477
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 4: Now?

478
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 3: I don't know.

479
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 5: It's good? It's good?

480
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay. So he leaves the home of this patient

481
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 4: of his who has just passed away, and a sex

482
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 4: worker named Domino played by Vanessa Shaw of hocus Pocus fame.

483
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 3: Oh what a what a career?

484
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:44,239
Speaker 4: Right? She approaches him and he goes home with her,

485
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 4: but decides not to go through having sex with her

486
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 4: because he gets a call from Alice asking when he'll

487
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 4: be home.

488
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 5: So a woman's intuition.

489
00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, So he leaves Domino's place and goes to the

490
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 4: jazz club where his friend Nick Nightingale had mentioned he

491
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 4: was playing, and Nick tells Bill about this other gig

492
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 4: he's playing later that night. It doesn't start until two am.

493
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 4: He won't know the address until like an hour before

494
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 4: he has to play blindfolded, so it's all very secretive,

495
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 4: although Nick says he did get a sneak peek last

496
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,959
Speaker 4: time and the women at this party were so hot.

497
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 6: I think there's a fun moment in that scene too,

498
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 6: where like a lot of this movie is Tom Cruise

499
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 6: being really naive, and I think it's like I've been

500
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 6: trying to like parse out what that is and like

501
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 6: why this character has such like an intense naivete Where

502
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 6: like in that scene where where Nick's.

503
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 5: Like, I'm blindfolded, He's like, what.

504
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 6: You're playing blindfolded, where it's like he goes for two

505
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 6: and a half hours, he's just being like defiled and

506
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 6: defiled and defiled, and it's like unable to meet the

507
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 6: like libid in that of the world. For some reason,

508
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 6: he like can't quite find the dance of this like

509
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 6: defamatory nature of society that he's been so repressed towards

510
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 6: because he's been like a man who's a doctor with

511
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 6: a wife and a daughter.

512
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 3: Right, it's oh, God, he's a Bill is a mystery.

513
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 3: Yeah not when I not when I'm eager to see solved.

514
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 5: Defense. I don't care because I don't care about him at.

515
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 3: All, right, right, like this is whatever's going on with

516
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 3: him is none of my business. I just like, best

517
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 3: of luck to Helena. At least their family is rich

518
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 3: enough that she'll be able to afford therapy later.

519
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 6: Yes, she'll have a wonderful Lakhanian psychoanalyst who she'll pretend

520
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 6: to be her father or something.

521
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 3: That has to be Oh god, someone had to have

522
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 3: done that sketch at some point, like if your parents

523
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 3: were the eyes wide shot parents.

524
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 5: I love that. I love that.

525
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 4: Oh that's great.

526
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 5: Okay.

527
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 4: So Nick is telling Bill all about this secret party,

528
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 4: and Bill is very intrigued, especially after Nick receives a

529
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 4: phone call with the password for the party, which is Fidelio.

530
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. I thought it was going to be Apple. I

531
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 3: thought it was going to be the Da Vinci code.

532
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 4: Not quite the Da Vinci code.

533
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 3: No Da Vinci code has.

534
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 5: It's really like Pee Wee's Playhouse, Like the word of

535
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 5: the day is Fidelio.

536
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 4: So Bill begs Nick to let him join, and Nick

537
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 4: is reluctant, and he says that Bill couldn't even get

538
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 4: in the party with the clothes he's wearing because everyone

539
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 4: is always costumed and masked. So Bill goes to a

540
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,959
Speaker 4: costume shop, even though it's like nearly two am at

541
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 4: this point, but he convinces the owner, mister Millich, to

542
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 4: let him in.

543
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 3: This guy.

544
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 4: And this is when Bill starts flashing his medical ID

545
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 4: card around everywhere. He'll do it like three more times.

546
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 3: You need to give me a sex costume.

547
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 5: I'm after, all right, it's an emergency.

548
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 4: It's a medical emergency. I need to go to a

549
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 4: sex party on.

550
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 3: Long Island as a notorious chiefs Gate. I was just

551
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 3: keeping a tap, like I was trying to do that.

552
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 5: He was spent.

553
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 3: I did the math. So much money in nineteen ninety

554
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 3: nine money he's spent like seven hundred dollars or something like.

555
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 4: I think that it's closer to nine hundred dollars.

556
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 5: And that what like two days just in the one

557
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 5: night wow.

558
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 4: Because he pays one hundred and fifty dollars to Domino.

559
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 4: He pays one hundred and fifty dollars for the costume rental,

560
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 4: plus an additional two hundred dollars over the rental price,

561
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 4: plus twenty five dollars for the mask that he loses,

562
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 4: the eighty dollars for the taxi to the party, plus

563
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 4: one hundred dollars over the meter, plus whatever the meter

564
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 4: costs while the driver waits for him, which is probably

565
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 4: another like seventy five eighty bucks, plus presumably another eighty

566
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 4: dollars to take him back to the city.

567
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 5: He's gonna write it off. He's gonna write it off.

568
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 3: Research research, Yeah right, yeah, as researching bodies. I'm a doctor, exactly,

569
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 3: researching boobs.

570
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 5: I'm a doctor.

571
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 4: And that doesn't even include the beer he bought at

572
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 4: the jazz club or the taxi to the costume shop.

573
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 4: So when you do all that math, I think it's

574
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 4: around nine hundred dollars that he spent that one night.

575
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 3: Must be nice.

576
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, that would have really put me back. Yeah, that

577
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 5: would put me back. That could be That would be

578
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 5: a lot hard.

579
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 3: I'd be upset, especially if you spent it doing just

580
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 3: thinking about cheating on your wife and you.

581
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 5: Didn't even get laid. You spent nine hundred dollars you

582
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 5: didn't even get laid, babe.

583
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 3: Oh many such cases, I'm sure.

584
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 4: Right, okay. So Bill rents a tuxedo, a cloak with

585
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 4: a hood, and a Venetian mask. There's also a part

586
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 4: here which we'll just get to later in the discussion

587
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 4: where mister Millich discovers his teenage question mark daughter played

588
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 4: by Lee Sobieski, with two older men, and we will

589
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 4: address this, but I'm just going to kind of breeze

590
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 4: past it here. So Bill heads to this party, still

591
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 4: imagining the naval officer railing his wife. The party ends

592
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 4: up being in a mansion somewhere secluded.

593
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 5: You said Long Island, definitely, definitely.

594
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 4: He gives the password Fidelio and is admitted. Wearing his

595
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 4: cloak and mask. He enters and sees what is clearly

596
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 4: some secret society. There are dozens of others in masks

597
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 4: and black cloaks. There's a leader in a red cloak

598
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 4: doing some ritual with a group of masked women who

599
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 4: disrobe and then choose a partner who they go off

600
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 4: with for sex. And one of the women who has

601
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 4: this big feathery mask chooses Bill, but it becomes clear

602
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 4: that she only approached him to warn him that he

603
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 4: doesn't belong there. He's in grave danger and he must leave. Immediately.

604
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 4: It is not clear how she knows this, and it

605
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 4: might just be because Bill is dreaming this whole thing,

606
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 4: but she seems to know that he doesn't belong there,

607
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 4: so she warns him to leave, but someone else comes

608
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 4: and pulls her aside, so Bill continues exploring. He goes

609
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 4: into the other rooms of the house where several people

610
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 4: are having sex others are watching. He's like a wooga

611
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 4: and then the woman with the big feathery mask comes

612
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 4: back and reiterates the danger that he and possibly she

613
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 4: are in. Then a masked man approaches Bill and brings

614
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 4: him to the main room, where surprise, everyone is staring

615
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 4: at him, and the leader in the red cloak kind

616
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 4: of puts Bill on trial, knowing that he wasn't invited

617
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 4: and he's not supposed to be there.

618
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 3: So that doesn't happen at the party's Caitlin, it doesn't happen.

619
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, you don't walk into her room and suddenly all

620
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,919
Speaker 4: eyes are on you and they're like, you don't belong here.

621
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, uniquely ridiculed.

622
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 3: I love that that happens if you're like Cinderella or

623
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 3: Tom Cruise, an eyes wide shut where all all of

624
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 3: a sudden, yeah.

625
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 4: So they make him take off his mask, revealing his identity,

626
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 4: and just then the feather mask woman says, stop, let

627
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 4: him go take me instead. I'm stop.

628
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 5: Stop.

629
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 4: She says, I'm ready to redeem him, and it's implied

630
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 4: that she he is sacrificing her life to let Bill live.

631
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 4: So they let Bill go free, but warn him not

632
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 4: to tell anyone what he has seen or try to

633
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 4: investigate anything or else he and his family will suffer

634
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 4: dire consequences. So Bill returns home and he comes into

635
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 4: the bedroom where Alice is laughing in her sleep, and

636
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 4: he wakes her up, and she proceeds to tell him

637
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 4: about a dream she was having where long story short,

638
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 4: she was having sex with the naval officer and then

639
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 4: a bunch of other men in front of Bill in

640
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 4: the dream. And he does not like this either.

641
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 3: I'll be it now, listen. I'm pro I'm Alice till

642
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 3: I die. But I was like, what I have shared

643
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 3: that whole dream with him?

644
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 6: I would have waited until coffee the next morning, at

645
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 6: least I would have done it over continental breakfast, maybe

646
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 6: some grapefruit with some brown shoes.

647
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 5: That's a morning conversation. That's not nighttime I would need to.

648
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would be like, let me just process that,

649
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 3: let me process that.

650
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

651
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 5: Right.

652
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 4: So cut to the next day and Bill he's running

653
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 4: some errands, including going to try to talk to Nick Nightingale,

654
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 4: and he finds the hotel where he's staying. Alan Cumming

655
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 4: is at the front desk telling Bill that Nick has

656
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 4: already checked out and two big scary men were with

657
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 4: him and it seemed like they were threatening him. And

658
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 4: then Bill goes to return the costume that he had rented,

659
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 4: although he forgot the mask somewhere. There's more to this

660
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 4: leey Sobieski subplot that again we'll revisit later. And then

661
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 4: Bill goes to the mansion where the party took place,

662
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 4: or at least he's at the front gate, where someone

663
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 4: brings him an envelope with his name on it, inside

664
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 4: of which is a letter telling him to stop his inquiries.

665
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 4: And this is his second and final warning.

666
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 3: It occurred to me, I mean, it's just it's because

667
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 3: Halloween was two weeks ago. But like the note, another

668
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 3: good Halloween cost him just to dress up as the

669
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 3: note that Tom Cruz to see that.

670
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 5: Would be really good.

671
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 6: It can be a couple's costume where it's that note

672
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 6: and then the other note that is in the Jersey

673
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 6: Shore that is, yes, the Jersey Shore note would also.

674
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 5: Be really, wait, what's that?

675
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 3: Oh it's I can't repeat that can't be repeated in full.

676
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 6: But it's a note that I'm pretty sure. Snooky writes

677
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 6: to Sammy, saying that she's been cheated on by Ronnie. Yes,

678
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 6: oh yes, and it's read aloud equally dramatically, Caitlyn.

679
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 3: It used to be like hung as a banner at

680
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 3: the iHeartRadio offices in La We had a banner of

681
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 3: it hanging up.

682
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 4: If I saw it, I didn't register that that's what

683
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 4: it was.

684
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they eventually took it down. It's some

685
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 3: pretty fucked up stuff. But I did see someone dressed

686
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 3: up as the note that Carrie Bradshaw gets, the post

687
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 3: it note, the post it breakup note. It's like, sorry,

688
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 3: I can't so many notes.

689
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 6: A note of men being disappointing. Yes, yes, it can

690
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 6: start with like magna karta and it's kind of.

691
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 3: Declaration of it dependent I mean, yes, anyway, the note iconic.

692
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 4: Okay, So Bill returns home, Alice is helping their daughter

693
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,760
Speaker 4: with math homework famously, and I think the only scene

694
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 4: that passes the Bechdel test. But all Bill can think

695
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 4: about is the dream Alice told him about all the

696
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 4: men she was fucking. So he leaves again and pays

697
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 4: a visit to Domino. She's not home, but her roommate

698
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 4: Sally is, who invites him in, and she's like very

699
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 4: close to him and being flirty. The vibe is horny,

700
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 4: but then she reveals that Domino just got some blood

701
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 4: test results back and they were HIV positive, So the

702
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 4: mood shifts and he's like, oh, I'm sorry to hear that,

703
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 4: and he leaves notices a man is following him, so

704
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 4: he like ducks into a restaurant where he reads a

705
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 4: newspaper clipping that a beauty queen named Amanda was admitted

706
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 4: to the hospital after a drug overdose. So Bill goes

707
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 4: to the hospital. He's still flashing his medical ID card everywhere.

708
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 3: I'm like, can that get you into the more?

709
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 4: Like, I mean, of anything that would make the most

710
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 4: sense to me? Why he shows a diner staff member.

711
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 5: Funny, but I feel like he.

712
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 3: Was just trying to like class intimidate her there to

713
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 3: be like I'm more important than you. You have to

714
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 3: do what I say, I feel like he's really really

715
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 3: sly with taking advantage of people he feels are less

716
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 3: important than him.

717
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 4: Right, because he does the same thing to Alan Cumming

718
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 4: at the front desk with the hotel.

719
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 3: And Alan Coming's being such a little weirdo and I

720
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 3: love it. He's like, I guess something weird happened, but

721
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 3: I don't know. You're like, what is this trickster? What

722
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 3: is this trickster persona?

723
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,479
Speaker 4: I read that Alan Cumming auditioned for this role six

724
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,399
Speaker 4: times before they cast him.

725
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 6: I also love King because he's doing like an American accent,

726
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 6: which I think is so funny. But it's like, I

727
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 6: feel like his lilt is really present as he's getting

728
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 6: more kind of like curious in the way that he's

729
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 6: discussing everything.

730
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 5: Yeah.

731
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 6: No, it's it's very much like Twink who has been

732
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 6: up since the night before.

733
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, like, that's what's happening.

734
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 3: My boyfriend works the night shift at a hotel and

735
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 3: I made him watch the scene with me. I'm like,

736
00:40:55,680 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 3: so it's like that, right, and that happens. He's like, yes, site,

737
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 3: that is how I behave and that is the job.

738
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 5: That is the job.

739
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 4: Okay. So Bill goes to the hospital and discovers that

740
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 4: this woman, Amanda, who was admitted for the drug overdose,

741
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 4: died earlier that day, and he sees her body in

742
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 4: the morgue and he suspects it's the same woman at

743
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 4: the sex cult party who had warned him and offered

744
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 4: to redeem him. Then he gets a call from Victor Ziegler,

745
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 4: the host of the party that happens at the beginning

746
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 4: of the movie. He invites Bill over to tell him

747
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 4: that he knows what happened the night before at the

748
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 4: Horny Illuminati party because Victor was there.

749
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 3: He's like, come over, I have some plot to share

750
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 3: with you.

751
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Victor Ziegler is like, you've got the wrong

752
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 4: idea about what's going on. No one's dead. It was

753
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 4: all stage to scare you into staying quiet about what

754
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 4: you've seen. And Bill is like, well, what about the

755
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 4: dead woman I just saw at.

756
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 3: The morgue who seems to be Mandy from the beginning

757
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 3: of the story.

758
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 4: Okay, see, I think to me, that's a different woman. Yeah,

759
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 4: I feel like they did not have the same face.

760
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 5: I agree.

761
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, okay, interesting because I sort of assumed this

762
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 3: was the first time, but that I was like Amanda Man,

763
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 3: I'm like, is it the same person? Weird that they

764
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 3: would give her such a similar name in that.

765
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 4: Well, Ziegler says like, that is the same woman, and she.

766
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 3: I guess I shouldn't have believed him.

767
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 4: Right, So he's trying to play it off as like, oh,

768
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,720
Speaker 4: you know she has addiction issues. You know that because

769
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,839
Speaker 4: you saw her overdosed at my party and it had

770
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 4: nothing to do with her sacrificing herself for you at

771
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 4: the cult party. But I think he's lying because that

772
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 4: they have the same hair color. But I don't think

773
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 4: that's the same woman.

774
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 3: But also she's like completely blue even though she died

775
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 3: at three forty five. Today she's like she looks like

776
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 3: she's been smurf.

777
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 4: Cry of she's more dead and she has a different

778
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 4: face than the other woman.

779
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 3: So who knows? Who knows?

780
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know, Bill doesn't really know what to believe,

781
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 4: and everything is very suspicious. But he returns home and

782
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 4: the mask that he had rented and misplaced is in

783
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 4: the bed next to a sleeping Alice. Apparently she had

784
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 4: found the mask and was going to ask him about it,

785
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 4: and so he bursts into tears and he's like, I'll

786
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 4: tell you everything. Cut to Bill having told her everything.

787
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 3: I kind of liked that we didn't need to watch that. Well,

788
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 3: I guess we saw it.

789
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like the movie's already long enough.

790
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:54,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know that's true.

791
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 4: So she's very upset. They're both crying, and then they

792
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 4: have to take their daughter Christmas shopping that day. So

793
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 4: while they're like roaming around the toy store, Bill and

794
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 4: Alice have a conversation about their future, if they're going

795
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 4: to stay together or split up, and they're speaking so

796
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 4: cryptically that I'm not really sure what they decide. But

797
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 4: the conversation ends with Alice saying I do love you

798
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 4: and there's one thing we need to do as soon

799
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 4: as possible. And Bill is like, ah what and Alice says.

800
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,839
Speaker 5: Fuck blackout the end.

801
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 3: I forgot that's how it ended. And I was like,

802
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 3: I he got me, he got me.

803
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 5: Yeah.

804
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:42,399
Speaker 6: No, Kubrick's last movie ever ending with fuck is so good,

805
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 6: like that iconic.

806
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 3: As a famously not fucky guy.

807
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 5: Yes, it's just fuck. Oh yeah, So that's the great recap.

808
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, thank you so much. That's the movie.

809
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 4: Let's take a quick break and we'll come back to.

810
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 3: This US and we're back baby, with everyone's permission. I

811
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,879
Speaker 3: want to start with the source material for this, which

812
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,240
Speaker 3: I did not know very much about, but the title

813
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 3: of it does support my theory because it's based on

814
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 3: novella called trom Novelle by Arthur Schnitzler, which translates to

815
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 3: dream story. But I think, I mean, there are the

816
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 3: eyeswey shut does like follow the story pretty closely. The

817
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 3: original story is set in Vienna during Marty Gral like

818
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 3: you said earlier, Caitlin. Obviously it's switched to be in

819
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 3: New York around Christmas. I think that the character of

820
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 3: Victor Ziegler is added, but other than that, it follows

821
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,720
Speaker 3: the beats of the story, just adjusting for time period

822
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 3: and location.

823
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 4: Right.

824
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 3: But the thing that is worth mentioning that I don't

825
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 3: feel like, you know, qualified to like intelligently comment on,

826
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 3: but it is something that has been written about a lot,

827
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 3: is the fact that Arthur Schnitzler was a Jewish author.

828
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 3: Their original work was published in nineteen twenty six. I

829
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 3: don't think it is explicitly stated that the lead character

830
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 3: in Traub Novelle is Jewish, but it is heavily implied

831
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 3: it's a character named Friedolin, and in that exchange we

832
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,479
Speaker 3: were talking about earlier, that is changed in Eyeswide Shut

833
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 3: to be a group of like homophobic frat bros yelling

834
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 3: at Tom Cruise. Originally that's a group of like anti

835
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 3: Semitic men harassing freedom. And so it's like it's suggested

836
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 3: that he's Jewish, and like Schnitzler was like a you know,

837
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 3: would frequently write about Jewish characters, was an openly Jewish

838
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,800
Speaker 3: author to the point where his works were like banned

839
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 3: in Nazi Germany. Like he was persona non and was

840
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 3: a close friend of Freud, which also I feel like

841
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 3: explains a lot of the treat Yeah, I highly so

842
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 3: much of this information is coming from that broidational video.

843
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 3: She did like an incredible job of contextualizing that. But

844
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 3: just worth mentioning that. Stanley Kuprick is a Jewish director

845
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 3: who was in the sort of this weird Infinity War

846
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 3: with his co writer Frederick Raphael, who there's a lot

847
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 3: of funny clips because I think that they were both

848
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 3: kind of egomaniacs and like Kubrick wanted to change a

849
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 3: lot of Rafael's script. Raphael was also a Jewish writer

850
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 3: and wanted to retain the implied Judaism of the lead character,

851
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 3: but Kubrick was pretty adamant that it be removed and

852
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,800
Speaker 3: that this character be changed to be like a wasp,

853
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 3: which is obviously who we end up with. So there's

854
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 3: been a lot written by Jewish writers about like Stanley

855
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 3: kuprick relationship to his Jewishness. But I just think it's

856
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:08,760
Speaker 3: worth mentioning, and that the character that he adds, Victor Ziegler,

857
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 3: who is not a great guy, isn't the only character

858
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 3: who's implied to be Jewish in the story. So yeah,

859
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 3: I just wanted to start with that. I didn't know

860
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 3: this was an adaptation of anything.

861
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 5: But most of Kubrick's work is I believe too.

862
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I guess there's other I can't pull it

863
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 3: off the top of my head because I am not

864
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 3: a Kubrick completionist, but I guess this is not the

865
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 3: only example of Kubrick taking a Jewish character, or even

866
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 3: an implied Jewish character, and being like, I want to

867
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 3: change it. So you know, he was not like very

868
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 3: into talking about his personal life, so we'll never know,

869
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:50,320
Speaker 3: but it is worth mentioning and has come up a

870
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 3: lot because it caused a lot of friction within the

871
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,839
Speaker 3: writing team because I think Frederick Grafael was like, why

872
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:01,800
Speaker 3: the fuck not. Kubrick was like, now, so we'll never know.

873
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 3: But and then the only other really shift from the

874
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 3: source material is that Eyes Wide Shut does sort of

875
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 3: shift the perspective to follow Bill throughout where it's like,

876
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 3: the height of the dramatic action in the book is

877
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 3: the Alice is Albertina in the book whatever, but like

878
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 3: the height of the action is related to her. But

879
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 3: in the book they add in, you know, like another

880
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 3: sex party and his like return and all that. So

881
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 3: that's the source material. That's my little background.

882
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, very interesting context. I couldn't find anything to the

883
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 4: effect of why Kubrick chose to remove the elements of

884
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 4: Judaism from the source material. At first, I was like, oh, no,

885
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 4: is it because he's anti Semitic? And then I learned

886
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 4: that he came from a Jewish family but did not

887
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 4: practice like he decided did at some point in his

888
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,240
Speaker 4: life that he was not going to be a practicing

889
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 4: Jew and considered himself to be an atheist. So I

890
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 4: don't know if like that informed anything. I'm a yeah,

891
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 4: we don't know, but I don't know.

892
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 3: We'll never know why the change was made, but I

893
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 3: was kind of pleased to hear that the story translated

894
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 3: to dream story, and I was like, it's not really right,

895
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 3: it's all made up.

896
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 5: Well, if it is a dream, when when does he

897
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 5: wake up?

898
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 3: I don't know.

899
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 5: That's the word fuck the fat the fuck rouses him back.

900
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 5: He's like, finally I can fuck it's in two and

901
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 5: a half hours.

902
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 6: I know.

903
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've This really is like a grand odyssey of

904
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,879
Speaker 3: watching Tom Cruise not close edge.

905
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's an edge off, definitely really wild.

906
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 4: So that theory, which I like, and I feel like

907
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:55,800
Speaker 4: it makes a lot of sense. Applying that lens to it,

908
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 4: you're like, oh, yes, this tracks as far as the

909
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 4: way Bill perceives women and what he thinks about them,

910
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 4: as far as their role in society and their role

911
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 4: in his personal life and things like that. If you

912
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 4: remove that lens, you're like, oh, this is a movie

913
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 4: full of characters who are women who are not well developed.

914
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 4: Their functions in the story are to just behave bizarrely

915
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 4: around Tom Cruise's character, and so if you just look

916
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,359
Speaker 4: at it very face value through that lens, you're just like, oh, yeah,

917
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,479
Speaker 4: this is a movie that doesn't seem to respect women,

918
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 4: But when looking at it through the lens of oh no,

919
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:44,879
Speaker 4: this is how this particular character perceives women and prescribed

920
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 4: gender roles and all of that, then you're like, oh,

921
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:50,240
Speaker 4: actually this might be brilliant.

922
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:54,879
Speaker 6: The disembodiment of women is so on the nose where

923
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 6: it's like there's that one quick scene where he's at

924
00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 6: work and it's just like a topless woman and he

925
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 6: has like a stethoscope like in between her boobs. It's like,

926
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 6: we all know you don't actually have to get fully

927
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,239
Speaker 6: topless when someone's taking your heart beat with stetho scope, you.

928
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 5: Know what I mean. Like it's just so on the

929
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 5: nose that it does. It just is satirical, you know.

930
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 5: It's like it's such a chriacaterre.

931
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 6: It's so over the top where it's like women don't

932
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:19,799
Speaker 6: even have faces half the time when you're talking to them,

933
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 6: Like it's.

934
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 3: Just they all kind of look the same, like.

935
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 5: There's one type of body.

936
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:29,359
Speaker 3: It's all white, white, all white New York City.

937
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 5: Yes.

938
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,800
Speaker 3: And also for so much of the movie it's like

939
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 3: New York is empty. Yeah, Like that's the other thing

940
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,359
Speaker 3: that I was like this is not happening because there's

941
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 3: no one on the street of like Manhattan right in

942
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 3: the West Villae Saturday.

943
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 4: Night except for one man who's following him.

944
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, but yeah, I agree.

945
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:49,839
Speaker 3: It's like the way that I when we were watched,

946
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 3: when I saw that doctor scene where she's completely topless,

947
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 3: I'm like, I know, a fourteen year old boy saw

948
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:56,760
Speaker 3: this and was like, I'm going to be a doctor.

949
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,720
Speaker 5: Literally, I want to see so many boobs.

950
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, you're like, you're you're in. You're in for

951
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 3: a surprise, my friend. Not a sexy environment. But I

952
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 3: also I like, I wonder how intentional this was, but

953
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 3: it did, like I don't know, like having had a

954
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 3: lot of you know, like I know we've all had

955
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 3: our experiences with like doctors who are not like listening

956
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 3: to us, or like, you know, the fact that he

957
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 3: is the first line of defense, and it doesn't seem

958
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 3: like he's a bad doctor to be fair, Like anytime

959
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 3: there's like an opportunity, if there's like someone who needs

960
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 3: his help, he does do it. Like I think that's

961
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,360
Speaker 3: part of what's complicated about Bill is like he is

962
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 3: deeply misogynistic and like baffled by women but he's not

963
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 3: like necessarily a bad person.

964
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 5: He's just incredibly insecure. He's just so so so insecure because.

965
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 3: It seems like he's good at his job and he

966
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 3: does care about it and and like you know, and

967
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 3: even in the opening sequence when he like you know,

968
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 3: prioritizes like we have to take care of Mandy. I

969
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 3: was really struck by that, Like you know, when Ziegler

970
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 3: is like, Okay, can I get the fuck out of here?

971
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 3: And he's like, no, you have to stay here for

972
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 3: an hour and make sure that she gets home safe.

973
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 3: And like he is, you know, very professional about what

974
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 3: he does, but doing that all while having these like

975
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 3: base assumptions about how his patients see the world. You're like, oh,

976
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 3: that's a lot of doctors.

977
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 4: Yes, I had a doctor who not a man. It

978
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,320
Speaker 4: was a doctor who's a woman because women can uphold

979
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 4: the patriarchy to But when I told her that, like

980
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 4: my libido was disappearing, She's like, well, do you have

981
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 4: a partner? And I said no, And she said, well

982
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 4: then how do you know that you don't have a libido? Yeah? Oh,

983
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 4: I was like what do you mean? And how can

984
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 4: you be a doctor and also think that like what.

985
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 5: Where did you come from?

986
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 4: It's still the most shocking thing it has ever happened

987
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 4: to be in a doctor's office at least, and.

988
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 5: I'm like, is she a nun like? Were you at

989
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:06,720
Speaker 5: a nunnery? I'm so confused.

990
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 4: No, it was just a regular ass doctor's office. But

991
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:11,840
Speaker 4: it was truly I had, Yeah.

992
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 3: We talked to I think I brought this up on

993
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 3: the show recently, but I had, like, I found like

994
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 3: a lump in my breast a couple of months ago

995
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 3: that thankfully was nothing, but I went to have it

996
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 3: tested and then I went back to my primary care

997
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 3: and she was like, you know, you should try being

998
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,280
Speaker 3: happier because sometimes depression causes breast lumps.

999
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 4: And I was like, no, you can't see advice.

1000
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 5: No, Well I'm good on that, thank you so much.

1001
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 3: So there are many examples of doctor we're saying is

1002
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 3: women shouldn't be doctors. That's like Caitlin and I are

1003
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 3: trying to be.

1004
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 5: Or also women shouldn't go to the doctor.

1005
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 4: Don't go.

1006
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 5: You're not safe either way, don't go, don't become one.

1007
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:50,919
Speaker 3: Take your chances, take your chances.

1008
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 4: So, yes, Bill seems to be a decent doctor for

1009
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 4: all intents and purposes, but he does have all of

1010
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 4: these assumptions about women that he is not considering from

1011
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 4: a like medical or scientific point of view. He's just like, oh, well,

1012
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 4: I've just always heard that, because I mean, the whole

1013
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:18,360
Speaker 4: movie happens because he's made assumptions about his wife because

1014
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,400
Speaker 4: of her gender. And then when he learns that Alice

1015
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 4: has sexual desires for other people throughout their marriage, which

1016
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 4: is a like normal and human thing, which we know

1017
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 4: because he also does it and knows all the time, right.

1018
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,280
Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, that really is the catalyst for the entire movie,

1019
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 6: is that she's like once ahead a sex dream during

1020
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 6: fleet week and he's like, well, I'm going to enter

1021
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 6: a secret society now and I'm gonna kill my h

1022
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 6: how dare you do that? And then during that fight

1023
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 6: he's like, I don't get jealous, and then it's like

1024
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 6: this jealousy fueled like underworldean event that like procures after.

1025
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, he is so emasculated that he tries to join

1026
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 4: a secret sex cult about it. He cannot handle.

1027
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:08,239
Speaker 3: Try and fails. I've actually failed to join it. Like

1028
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:11,760
Speaker 3: he is turned out of the Illuminati. They're like, sorry,

1029
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 3: you can't hang.

1030
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 5: You have weird vibes. It's like you have weird vibes.

1031
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 3: No, And I mean even his again, I wonder how

1032
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 3: intentional it was, but like even his fantasizing about her

1033
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 3: cheating on him, it feels like weirdly juvenile. Like it's like, yeah,

1034
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 3: you know, he's imagining her like basically having wild sex

1035
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 3: with a guy in a like navy eye party outfit.

1036
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 3: Like it just feels very like his conception of sex is.

1037
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 5: So high school.

1038
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, like so yeah, so naive and so very blue.

1039
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, the flashbacks are very blue, and yeah, it's like

1040
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 4: this very muscular, handsome fit man that she's having sex with.

1041
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 4: And I read that Koup like directed those scenes to

1042
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 4: be like as pornographic as possible. And I hope that

1043
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 4: there was like an intimacy coordinator and that Nicole Kidman

1044
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 4: and the man and you know, everyone involved felt comfortable.

1045
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 3: But I was able to find this was I was like,

1046
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 3: of course they didn't ask her, but that Tom Cruise

1047
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 3: was not allowed to go to those filming sessions. Yeah,

1048
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:25,480
Speaker 3: but it wasn't clear if that was Kubrick cucking him

1049
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 3: again or if Nicole Kidman didn't want him there, both

1050
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 3: of which are possible.

1051
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 5: Oh that's so interesting, but like, of course.

1052
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 4: No one asked her, right right, right right. People speculate

1053
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 4: that Kubrick like wanted to stir up drama on the

1054
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 4: set to like make the performances more realistic.

1055
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 5: He's so messy.

1056
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 6: I'm like, okay, he is a def okay, defaut. That's

1057
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 6: very like Andy Cohen of him. He's like, I'm gonna

1058
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 6: stir the pot like you're, yeah, the Real Housewives of

1059
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 6: Eyes wise shot.

1060
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 5: He's like the pot.

1061
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 3: I kind of love that. He's like, Okay, I've got

1062
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 3: I've got eighteen months to live. What can I get done?

1063
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 5: Like he's like, can I get two of the most

1064
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 5: famous people on earth to get divorced?

1065
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 3: I won't be around to experience like your last wish.

1066
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 5: It's so traumatic.

1067
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 3: That's so that's diabah god. I kind of am like

1068
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 3: if I knew, because I also confuse it because this

1069
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 3: is his last movie, but like unclear if he knew

1070
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 3: he didn't have much time to live while he was

1071
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 3: making it, but if he did, fan theory, he's like,

1072
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 3: as my last act, I'm gonna make two famous people divorce.

1073
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 6: Like I also was on his Wikipedia before this, and

1074
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 6: I read in his personal life section that he was

1075
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 6: infamously distrustful of doctors. Really, oh yes, so maybe that

1076
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 6: is present and this conversation as well. He's like, I

1077
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 6: got to cock the doctor for my last movie.

1078
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 3: Oh also, and uh, because Katelyne, I know you were

1079
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 3: talking about this before we started recording. But this this

1080
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 3: was like this was kind of like Kubrick's Megalopolis kind

1081
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 3: of like this was a story that he had the

1082
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 3: rights to for like thirty years. He envisioned it in

1083
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 3: all of these different ways with different actors. Like there

1084
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 3: was a point where he was gonna have Woody Allen

1085
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 3: in it. Glad he didn't. Oh interesting, there was a

1086
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 3: point where it was going to be more of like

1087
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 3: a comedy with Steve Martin, Tom Hanks, Bill Murray, Dustin Hoffman,

1088
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 3: Warren Batty, Albert Brooks, Alan Alda, Sam Shepherd. Like he

1089
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 3: had like fifty different conceptions of what.

1090
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 4: This Alec Baldwin and Kim Basinger because he was like

1091
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 4: really interested in having a real life married couple play

1092
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 4: the married couple. Yeah, but then he finally, I mean,

1093
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 4: in the nick of time, he did it.

1094
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 3: But it was it was interesting too, because I mean

1095
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's interesting to kind of speculate, like

1096
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 3: what drew him to this story so strongly, And I

1097
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:54,080
Speaker 3: guess also his his wife, whose name is Christiane Harlan.

1098
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 3: She sort of was like, he wanted to adapt this

1099
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 3: in I think the seventies, and she was like, it's

1100
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 3: a little too early into our marriage to like be

1101
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 3: making something like that for my comfort level. And He's like, Okay,

1102
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 3: i'll wait, I'll wait, I'll wait. And so it was

1103
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 3: like sort of in deference to her, because she was

1104
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 3: like worried about how it would reflect on their marriage

1105
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 3: as they were raising kids together, and so there were

1106
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 3: all these reasons he waited, but it seems like it

1107
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 3: came together the way it should have.

1108
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:24,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, so he had to wait along too. So he

1109
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 5: was also getting cocked by his own movie.

1110
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 4: He was true edging himself.

1111
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, big time. Absolutely.

1112
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 4: He also apparently considered this movie to be his greatest

1113
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 4: contribution to the art of cinema. Oh wow, And I'm like,

1114
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 4: I mean, it's a good movie, but I'm like, you

1115
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 4: made like two thousand and one and Doctor Strange Love

1116
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 4: and stuff, but sure, this maybe is the best of them.

1117
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 3: He's i mean, good for him.

1118
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 5: That.

1119
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 3: I mean, I imagine having a body of work that

1120
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 3: strong that you're like Oswood shut and it's kind of

1121
01:01:57,400 --> 01:01:59,120
Speaker 3: mid tier, like because.

1122
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 4: It's so good. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. I just I

1123
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 4: find the character fascinating as far as like his perception

1124
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 4: of gender and sex and how men and women are different.

1125
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 4: I feel like we had a similar conversation about the

1126
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 4: Inception episode where it's hard to evaluate the characters who

1127
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 4: are women in that movie, and specifically mal the marrying

1128
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 4: Courtyard character, because it's like Leonardo DiCaprio's characters projection of

1129
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 4: his wife rather than who she actually is, And so

1130
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 4: a lot of that is also arguably present in this movie.

1131
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 3: That's the Christopher Nolan cheat code. He's like, you never

1132
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 3: need to learn how to write a woman.

1133
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 7: Character's not real, She's a projection, right, So I think

1134
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 7: there's a strong argument to be made that that's how

1135
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 7: to read this movie.

1136
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 4: That when we see Alice, she is mostly a kind

1137
01:02:56,280 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 4: of like fever dream projection of what bills.

1138
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 5: And she's also like always in bed. She's like literally like.

1139
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 3: In bed, in bed, crying, wearing the same outfit.

1140
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, she's just asleep or crying.

1141
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, even the way like the way. That's such a

1142
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 3: good point. Like the way she's costumed is either it's

1143
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 3: very Madonna horror Like it's either she is like in

1144
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 3: bed crying in a sheer top, which she looks great in,

1145
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 3: or she's like wearing her glasses and a turtleleg and

1146
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 3: she's being a mother and a wife. Like there's just

1147
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 3: I really feel like he's just totally unable to see

1148
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 3: her as either a sex object or a like quote

1149
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 3: unquote woman doing what woman does. And yeah, again expanding

1150
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 3: on this theory, I feel like we see the real

1151
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 3: her at the very beginning of the movie, but the

1152
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 3: second they have that argument, he just like his brain

1153
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 3: breaks because we see her. I mean it's like, you know,

1154
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 3: she's Nicole kidman. She looks great no matter what. But

1155
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:55,200
Speaker 3: it does feel like it's very specific. It's hard in

1156
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:57,560
Speaker 3: one direction or hard in the other. Yeah.

1157
01:03:57,560 --> 01:03:59,280
Speaker 5: I think that's true because.

1158
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 3: I don't know about y'all, but I'm not sleeping in

1159
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:04,280
Speaker 3: a sheer top like I'm sleeping in a large T shirt. Yeah.

1160
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 5: Cozy, it's good to be cozy.

1161
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially if I've been married for ten years. Right, Yeah,

1162
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 3: you're not catching me dead in a sheer top. I'm

1163
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:12,240
Speaker 3: so sorry.

1164
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 6: But yeah, on that first scene where she's dancing with

1165
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 6: that older guy who's trying to sleep with her, like

1166
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 6: she's really dynamic, Like you're watching a woman negotiate her morality,

1167
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 6: her values, her ethics, like in real time, like both

1168
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 6: as they reflect as her as a wife, but also

1169
01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 6: like her as a sexual being as well.

1170
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 5: But it really is. Yeah, when Jamie's saying, I guess

1171
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 5: maybe it is.

1172
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:40,080
Speaker 6: A dream, even though I don't want it to be

1173
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 6: a dream, is that once she snaps and she's the

1174
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 6: only one in that argument that is honest about her desires,

1175
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 6: then she just kind of becomes sleeping beauty and she's just.

1176
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 5: Kind of like relegated to the bed, the bedroom, right.

1177
01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:57,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, And if we see her at the beginning, we

1178
01:04:57,960 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 3: see her like on the toilet, we see her just

1179
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 3: like seeming more normal than she does for the rest

1180
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 3: of the movie.

1181
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 5: Totally.

1182
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, during that scene where she's dancing with that man

1183
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 4: at the party and you know he's being he's coming

1184
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 4: on very strong, but she seems into it. She's receptive

1185
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 4: to it.

1186
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 3: They're vibing, Yeah, they're vibing.

1187
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 4: And she tells him like, oh, I'm actually looking for

1188
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 4: a job. I used to run an art gallery in Soho,

1189
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 4: and he's like, oh, you like art, Let's talk about

1190
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 4: art and da da da, and so like, I could

1191
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 4: see why she would take an interest in him, and

1192
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:35,440
Speaker 4: she does seem to consider like going upstairs with him,

1193
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 4: and maybe that would lead to sex. We're not sure.

1194
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 4: But then you know, she's like, oh, right, I'm married

1195
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:42,000
Speaker 4: to Tom Cruise.

1196
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 3: I better go well, especially, it's like if you could,

1197
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 3: I haven't even thought of that, but like if you're

1198
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 3: considering like he, you know, we never see Bill ask

1199
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 3: her about how she's feeling about work, Like, he clearly

1200
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 3: has no interest in her having a career, and so

1201
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 3: it's like, of course you would be kind of I mean,

1202
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 3: especially if you're like kind of fucked up, and it's

1203
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:07,720
Speaker 3: like a hot old guy, you know, like someone who

1204
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:10,440
Speaker 3: asks you about yourself. Of course you're gonna be interested

1205
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:11,840
Speaker 3: in that person, right, And.

1206
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 6: Then out of the corner of her eye, she's watching him,

1207
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 6: like Tom Cruise laugh with those models.

1208
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 5: You know, he's like, haa so gregarious.

1209
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 3: It's like my cuck husband, I've got to get out

1210
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 3: of here.

1211
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly right.

1212
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:27,440
Speaker 4: And then just to kind of like walk through the

1213
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 4: beats of the conversation that like is the catalyst that

1214
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:36,720
Speaker 4: gets him to have this this meltdown, fever dream kind

1215
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 4: of thing, you know, where she says, yeah, that guy

1216
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 4: wanted sex, and she was perfectly honest about it, again,

1217
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 4: because she's able to be honest with him about her

1218
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 4: feelings and about like, you know, uncomfortable truths or kind

1219
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:56,120
Speaker 4: of taboo things that you're quote unquote not supposed to acknowledge,

1220
01:06:56,600 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 4: such as how even when you're in a committed anogamous relationship,

1221
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:06,560
Speaker 4: many people still have sexual desires for other people. And again,

1222
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 4: that's a perfectly normal part of the human experience. And

1223
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 4: Alice is able to be honest about these things and

1224
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 4: Bill is not, because he's like, I'm never jealous. Meanwhile,

1225
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 4: the rest of the movie is him being so jealous

1226
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 4: and jealous, right, but anyway, so she's like, yeah, he

1227
01:07:25,400 --> 01:07:28,520
Speaker 4: wanted to have sex with me, and Bill's like, yeah,

1228
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 4: men are like that, not me though, I'm the exception.

1229
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:35,120
Speaker 4: I wasn't even flirting with those two beautiful models because

1230
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 4: I'm married to you. And she's like, okay, so you

1231
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:41,640
Speaker 4: did want to have sex with them, and you just

1232
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 4: wouldn't fuck them out of consideration for me, like, what's

1233
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 4: what are you saying?

1234
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:50,000
Speaker 3: Well, she's like trying to have a conversation with them,

1235
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:52,920
Speaker 3: She's trying to get him to like it seems like

1236
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:55,960
Speaker 3: she would be happier if he just admitted that and

1237
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 3: they could talk about it openly, but like he's just

1238
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 3: too closed off for sure.

1239
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:03,640
Speaker 6: She had her copy of Like Polly Secure like right

1240
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:06,800
Speaker 6: behind her back, was about to bust it out, but

1241
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 6: then the conversation didn't go well, so she buried it.

1242
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:11,800
Speaker 4: This is a couple that probably should just, I don't know,

1243
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 4: try polyamory and see.

1244
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:16,599
Speaker 5: Oh to a swingers party, put your keys in a bowl,

1245
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:18,400
Speaker 5: figure something out, and they.

1246
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 3: Literally did, and like I just write, I yeah, And

1247
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:24,120
Speaker 3: I think, Caitlin, you said this earlier. I was like,

1248
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 3: in my mind, for some reason, there was another sex

1249
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:30,880
Speaker 3: party and she went back, and so I kind of

1250
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 3: like I was like, oh, no, she never gets to

1251
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:37,880
Speaker 3: do fucking anything, And I think that, like it's interesting

1252
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:39,479
Speaker 3: that I don't know. My memory was that, oh, she

1253
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 3: must do something wrong at some point. She never does

1254
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:45,559
Speaker 3: anything wrong. She has a sex dream. That is all

1255
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:46,320
Speaker 3: she does.

1256
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:50,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, She tells him about different sexual desires she

1257
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:55,040
Speaker 4: has or dreams, which again normal human thing for someone

1258
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:59,160
Speaker 4: who is a sexual being, right, And she also conveys like,

1259
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 4: I have never acted on this, Like I'm not acting

1260
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 4: on these desires. I'm just having them the way a

1261
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:09,080
Speaker 4: sexual person has sexual desires for people.

1262
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:12,519
Speaker 5: And then he blames the pot. Yeah, okay, these pots.

1263
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:19,040
Speaker 4: Most hilarious line, classic pot, classic pot, classic pots, always

1264
01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:23,439
Speaker 4: making people so aggressive, and then yeah, she says, like,

1265
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:28,599
Speaker 4: what about you when you're with your patients touching their

1266
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:29,559
Speaker 4: breasts like.

1267
01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 5: And he's like, no, no, no, I don't think like

1268
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:34,040
Speaker 5: he's he's so offended.

1269
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, we've seen him.

1270
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:37,479
Speaker 3: He's like, I do make all of my patients take

1271
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:40,840
Speaker 3: their tops off, right so I can hear their heart beat.

1272
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:44,479
Speaker 3: I'm waiting for them to ask why, but they just happen.

1273
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:48,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, And then she's like, well, what about those

1274
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:51,680
Speaker 4: women in your office looking at the handsome doctor And

1275
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:54,960
Speaker 4: he says women don't think like that, and she's like, oh,

1276
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:59,120
Speaker 4: so you think that women only care about security and commitment,

1277
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:01,280
Speaker 4: and then this is and she launches into the story

1278
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:04,680
Speaker 4: about the naval officer, and so it's just yeah, him

1279
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:09,040
Speaker 4: like making all of these very prescriptive assumptions about his

1280
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:11,559
Speaker 4: partner because he just is like, yeah, this is how

1281
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:13,840
Speaker 4: women are, and then she sets them straight.

1282
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:17,720
Speaker 3: If you men only knew you're like And I.

1283
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:21,680
Speaker 6: Think that's also like part of the Kuckoning, where like

1284
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 6: he's at this sex party and I feel like he's

1285
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:27,360
Speaker 6: unable to close because it's the first time in his

1286
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 6: life that he's understanding women having sexual autonomy.

1287
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 5: He's like, oh, all.

1288
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 6: These women came here alone without their husbands, perhaps, like

1289
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:41,880
Speaker 6: they're here on their own volition. Because it's like interesting

1290
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 6: too to think about his the relationship of like sex

1291
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:48,639
Speaker 6: work in the movie too, where it's like these women's

1292
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:53,880
Speaker 6: sexual autonomies are negotiated as part of their career, where

1293
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 6: like a man is soliciting them, so that's why they

1294
01:10:56,880 --> 01:10:59,000
Speaker 6: want to have sex. But then at the sex party,

1295
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 6: it's like, I don't believe it's implied that these women

1296
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:04,600
Speaker 6: are sex workers. So it's like, oh, like they're like

1297
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:08,080
Speaker 6: they just want to be here, right, Like a man

1298
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 6: didn't ask them to be here.

1299
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:14,240
Speaker 3: Right, Like he can't conceive a woman having sex for

1300
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:15,479
Speaker 3: pleasure at all.

1301
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 5: Right, all totally yeah, I mean.

1302
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:20,000
Speaker 3: His interactions with women.

1303
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:20,639
Speaker 5: I agree.

1304
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:23,280
Speaker 3: It's like it's either like if if you're just looking

1305
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:26,000
Speaker 3: at the movie, like, these are women in this world?

1306
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:28,920
Speaker 3: It makes no sense. I feel like weirdly, the leely

1307
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:32,920
Speaker 3: Sobieski character I found very kind of like clarifying, Yeah,

1308
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:38,599
Speaker 3: because her character acts so irrationally, especially in her second appearance. Yeah,

1309
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:41,120
Speaker 3: we're in the first one. I really wasn't sure. So

1310
01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:45,439
Speaker 3: she's for listeners. She's the daughter of the costume shop owner.

1311
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:49,240
Speaker 3: He finds her with two older men and like, you know,

1312
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:53,720
Speaker 3: basically threatens to have the two men arrested. But she

1313
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:56,479
Speaker 3: like she hides behind Tom Cruise and she's like, hey,

1314
01:11:56,960 --> 01:11:59,600
Speaker 3: I'm such a little scamp. And you're like, okay, that

1315
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:03,519
Speaker 3: could happen in the but it still feels very I

1316
01:12:03,560 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 3: don't know, like conception of a woman versus a person

1317
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:08,880
Speaker 3: who has reason to be afraid of her father.

1318
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 5: Right.

1319
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:11,760
Speaker 3: But then when we see her the second time, I

1320
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:15,599
Speaker 3: was like, this cannot be real because she says nothing.

1321
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:20,679
Speaker 3: She just stares vacantly ahead basically, and the costume shop

1322
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 3: owner is like, oh, by the way, I am now

1323
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:28,840
Speaker 3: my daughter's pimp, and so if you're interested in having

1324
01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:32,519
Speaker 3: sex with my possibly underage daughter, just let me know.

1325
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:36,040
Speaker 3: And she's just staring vacantly ahead. I was like, I

1326
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:39,400
Speaker 3: just I do believe. I mean, Stanley Kuprick is not

1327
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:42,680
Speaker 3: great at writing women characters. Again, maybe this is his

1328
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 3: cheat code, but like it's just so hard to buy

1329
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:48,479
Speaker 3: into that we're supposed to take that scene at face

1330
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:50,599
Speaker 3: value for me for sure.

1331
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:54,439
Speaker 4: Right, I was not sure what to make of these

1332
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:58,000
Speaker 4: beats that involve this character. And I was like, Okay, well,

1333
01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 4: it seems like it's common terry on how people will

1334
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:07,439
Speaker 4: abandon their principles for a large sum of money. Because

1335
01:13:07,439 --> 01:13:10,800
Speaker 4: it's implied that this guy Milleg the costume shop owner,

1336
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:14,559
Speaker 4: comes to an agreement with these two older men who

1337
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:17,160
Speaker 4: he had found his daughter with, and that they were like,

1338
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:21,080
Speaker 4: will pay you to not call the cops or you know,

1339
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:26,360
Speaker 4: we'll give you all this money, and that's what changes

1340
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:27,240
Speaker 4: that dynamic.

1341
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:29,560
Speaker 5: And I think it's implied to that he's kind of

1342
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:32,360
Speaker 5: like a sleeze bag, valueless guy.

1343
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:32,760
Speaker 3: You know.

1344
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:35,000
Speaker 6: It's like for sure he was able to be like

1345
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 6: bought in to Tom coming in after hours, like you know,

1346
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:39,759
Speaker 6: he's like a sleazy guy.

1347
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 4: Right, And so it's like, oh, well, this guy just

1348
01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:47,200
Speaker 4: you know, for the right price, he'll like literally sell

1349
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:50,640
Speaker 4: out his daughter. And I mean, we see things like

1350
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 4: this happening all the time in the real world, that

1351
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 4: people are corrupted by greed and wealth. But what didn't

1352
01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 4: work for me is like first glance is like, well, then,

1353
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:06,920
Speaker 4: like why is the lely Sobieski character seemingly a gleeful

1354
01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:11,040
Speaker 4: participant in this scenario? Like that doesn't track at all.

1355
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:15,040
Speaker 4: But if it's through the lens of like how Bill's

1356
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:20,679
Speaker 4: very warped perception of women is informing why she's behaving

1357
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:23,880
Speaker 4: that way, then it tries. And we've seen him shell

1358
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:26,680
Speaker 4: out a ton of money, right, I think it was

1359
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:29,800
Speaker 4: very intentional for him to constantly being like, I'll pay

1360
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 4: you two hundred dollars over the rental price, I'll pay

1361
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 4: you one hundred dollars over the fare for the taxi.

1362
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:40,000
Speaker 4: Like he's he has money to throw around and he

1363
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:42,760
Speaker 4: knows he can use it to manipulate people into doing

1364
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:46,479
Speaker 4: what he wants, and he does not hesitate to do so.

1365
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:49,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, class is really interesting in the movie where I

1366
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:53,120
Speaker 6: definitely do think that this is like a movie about

1367
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:56,280
Speaker 6: the bourgeoisie. It's like, these are wealthy people with lots

1368
01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:59,360
Speaker 6: of time and lots of resources, and they're a little bored,

1369
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:05,680
Speaker 6: and their boredom allows them the extra time people to

1370
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:07,280
Speaker 6: get up to no good, you know what I mean,

1371
01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:09,000
Speaker 6: where it's like I kind of like got that too

1372
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:11,679
Speaker 6: in the Alan Cumming scene where he's like a working

1373
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:17,800
Speaker 6: person and he's like really like loving the juiciness of

1374
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 6: what these rich people in the hotel that he's doing

1375
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:21,680
Speaker 6: is getting up too, and he said he's having so

1376
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:24,880
Speaker 6: much fun kind of like recounting what he saw, and

1377
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:27,080
Speaker 6: even that with like the waitress and even that with

1378
01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:29,599
Speaker 6: the sex worker. It's like all of these more working

1379
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:32,559
Speaker 6: class people are just avenues to me to like get

1380
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:36,320
Speaker 6: information or get what I want. And they're sexual too,

1381
01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:39,960
Speaker 6: but they're of less value obviously, right.

1382
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 3: I was sort of wondering that with like, because I

1383
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:44,800
Speaker 3: don't do we ever find out what Victor Ziegler does

1384
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:46,120
Speaker 3: for a living?

1385
01:15:46,439 --> 01:15:49,439
Speaker 4: I don't think so, I don't know, Okay, we just

1386
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:50,719
Speaker 4: know that he's very wealthy.

1387
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:54,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I also almost wondered if, like I mean,

1388
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:57,479
Speaker 3: it definitely seems like even though like doctor Bill he's

1389
01:15:57,520 --> 01:16:00,200
Speaker 3: like weird, I don't know, he's just weird. He's Tom

1390
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:03,639
Speaker 3: Cruisey's weird. He's weird, but it does feel like part

1391
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:06,519
Speaker 3: of what's tied into his insecurity is like he's rich

1392
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:10,040
Speaker 3: and successful, but not as rich and successful. He's still

1393
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:14,360
Speaker 3: technically working for others. But even though he is in

1394
01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 3: a different class, he still interfaces with people at the diner.

1395
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:21,360
Speaker 3: His connection to the sex party is someone who works

1396
01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:24,280
Speaker 3: for the sex party. So it's like, true, he's not

1397
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:30,040
Speaker 3: invited or necessarily like openly welcomed by like the highest

1398
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:32,519
Speaker 3: echelon that it seems like he probably aspires to be

1399
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:35,840
Speaker 3: a part of, right, you know, he's he's instead sort

1400
01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:38,640
Speaker 3: of like reveling in his power over people who have

1401
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:42,680
Speaker 3: less money than him, as opposed to like you never

1402
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:46,639
Speaker 3: really get the feeling that he is fully accepted by

1403
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:51,880
Speaker 3: the like one percent one percent until he's causing them problems.

1404
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:54,439
Speaker 3: But even then, like Victor Zegler's calling him over at

1405
01:16:54,479 --> 01:16:56,840
Speaker 3: the end to be like you shouldn't have been there,

1406
01:16:56,920 --> 01:16:57,920
Speaker 3: you don't belong there.

1407
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 5: It's another layer of a masculization for sure.

1408
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:05,840
Speaker 4: I have to imagine that's why the change was made

1409
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:09,040
Speaker 4: for from the source material to have that group of

1410
01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:14,600
Speaker 4: like agromen. Yeah, call Bill a homophobic slur because that

1411
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:18,600
Speaker 4: just emasculates him even further and then excuse me. And

1412
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:21,040
Speaker 4: then when he comes back home after the party, after

1413
01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:25,960
Speaker 4: like the sex party. That's when Alice describes the dream

1414
01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:30,640
Speaker 4: where she was like, yeah, we were naked together. I

1415
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:34,120
Speaker 4: was scared you left. I felt so much better after

1416
01:17:34,240 --> 01:17:37,920
Speaker 4: you left. And then that sexy naval officer came out

1417
01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:39,720
Speaker 4: of the woods and we started having sex and it

1418
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:42,719
Speaker 4: was awesome. It turned into this orgy where I fucked

1419
01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:44,960
Speaker 4: so many people. I don't even know how many men,

1420
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:47,479
Speaker 4: but I was with so many. And then I love

1421
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:53,160
Speaker 4: her performance. She's like, I'm sorry, hah, Like that's so good, right,

1422
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:55,960
Speaker 4: And then she describes in her dream like seeing him

1423
01:17:56,160 --> 01:17:59,519
Speaker 4: and laughing at him and like wanting to humiliate him.

1424
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:02,719
Speaker 3: It's even worse in the source material. In the source material,

1425
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:05,400
Speaker 3: while she's fucking other guys, he's crucified.

1426
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:11,200
Speaker 5: No, I love that's so good.

1427
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:15,240
Speaker 6: Well yeah, it's like even though he's a doctor and

1428
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:17,840
Speaker 6: he's wealthy and has a beautiful wife, it's like the

1429
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:22,360
Speaker 6: ego wants more. It's like when everything the only way

1430
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:24,320
Speaker 6: that you're able to define your worth is by what

1431
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:27,680
Speaker 6: you believe you've achieved and like acquired, and he's like

1432
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:30,519
Speaker 6: my wife, I like acquired her, Like that's my property,

1433
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:31,720
Speaker 6: Like that's an investment.

1434
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:35,439
Speaker 5: And my understanding as a man. And when you realize that,

1435
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:40,320
Speaker 5: when he realizes that she has desires and dreams outside

1436
01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:43,599
Speaker 5: of him, he's like, wait, why is my thing thinking

1437
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:46,839
Speaker 5: about anything else besides me? I'm about to freak the fuck.

1438
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:50,200
Speaker 3: Out, Like no validation is going to be enough for him,

1439
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:54,320
Speaker 3: like no validation from anybody unless he is And I wonder,

1440
01:18:54,600 --> 01:18:57,400
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know if in the source material,

1441
01:18:57,439 --> 01:18:59,320
Speaker 3: like he they have a daughter or son. I know

1442
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:01,719
Speaker 3: they have a kid, but it feels kind of also

1443
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:04,479
Speaker 3: intentional that he has a young daughter and has no

1444
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:08,800
Speaker 3: interest in her whatsoever, right, like another thing to have

1445
01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:10,000
Speaker 3: around the house, and.

1446
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:12,640
Speaker 5: Doesn't the daughter look doesn't a cool kitmen too? Like

1447
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:17,000
Speaker 5: same hair color ye strawberry blonde? Yeah?

1448
01:19:17,240 --> 01:19:19,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, And even though I mean I want to say, like,

1449
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:23,360
Speaker 3: you know, it does seem like Alice is a good

1450
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:26,720
Speaker 3: and thoughtful parent, but it's like if we're seeing her

1451
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:30,639
Speaker 3: through Bill's eyes, we see what Alice is doing almost never,

1452
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:33,600
Speaker 3: like we get no insight into what her life is

1453
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:36,400
Speaker 3: like except that she isn't working right now and she's

1454
01:19:36,439 --> 01:19:38,640
Speaker 3: a stay at home mom, and we see her do that.

1455
01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:41,840
Speaker 3: We see her cooking, we see her helping Helena with

1456
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:45,760
Speaker 3: her homework. We see her enjoying being a parent, but

1457
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:49,240
Speaker 3: we get no insight into her outside of that. And

1458
01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:52,080
Speaker 3: it's just like, I don't know this. I have no

1459
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:53,720
Speaker 3: idea how we're going to rate this, because it's like,

1460
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:55,519
Speaker 3: I think this movie has so much to say about

1461
01:19:55,600 --> 01:20:00,160
Speaker 3: like masculinity and insecurity, but also by design, and it

1462
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:02,360
Speaker 3: has nothing to say about women because it's about a

1463
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:05,679
Speaker 3: man who doesn't understand women at all.

1464
01:20:06,160 --> 01:20:08,840
Speaker 5: Total people know, Yeah, for sure, right.

1465
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:11,920
Speaker 4: I also wasn't sure what to make of the part

1466
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:18,160
Speaker 4: where Domino. Yeah, So Bill pays a second visit to Domino.

1467
01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:20,680
Speaker 4: And also this is right after he has made a

1468
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:24,640
Speaker 4: phone call to Marion, the woman whose father had just

1469
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:28,160
Speaker 4: passed away, and presumably he's thinking, oh, she was throwing

1470
01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:32,439
Speaker 4: herself at me, and my wife keeps emasculating me, so

1471
01:20:32,640 --> 01:20:36,760
Speaker 4: that gives me license to cheat on her and try

1472
01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:40,160
Speaker 4: to have sex with whoever has showed any interest in me.

1473
01:20:41,000 --> 01:20:46,040
Speaker 4: And so he calls her home. Her fiance answers, so

1474
01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:49,479
Speaker 4: he hangs up, realizing, oh, that's probably not a viable

1475
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:52,240
Speaker 4: option actually, So then he goes back to Domino's.

1476
01:20:52,400 --> 01:20:57,000
Speaker 5: He's trying every angle. It's like his roster is on zero.

1477
01:20:58,120 --> 01:21:00,280
Speaker 5: He's like, it's about to be coughing season, and like

1478
01:21:00,479 --> 01:21:01,920
Speaker 5: I have there's no one around.

1479
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:07,800
Speaker 3: Miserable he's so he's so desperate. It's like, go, I

1480
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:10,240
Speaker 3: refuse to talk to my wife, right.

1481
01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:13,360
Speaker 5: Exactly, it's so pathetic, right, But.

1482
01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:16,960
Speaker 4: Anyway, so he goes to Domino's and her roommate Sally

1483
01:21:17,439 --> 01:21:21,120
Speaker 4: is there, and he's also trying to have sex with her.

1484
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:25,200
Speaker 4: It seems like she's receptive to it as well. Again,

1485
01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:29,080
Speaker 4: probably because this is a projection of his and not

1486
01:21:29,280 --> 01:21:31,600
Speaker 4: what's actually really happening.

1487
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:33,680
Speaker 3: Right, because yeah, who would like come on to you

1488
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:37,040
Speaker 3: by being like, by the way, my dearest friend is

1489
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:38,840
Speaker 3: something horrible. It's just happened to her, like.

1490
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:43,600
Speaker 4: Right, Well, the dynamic changes after that, but prior to that,

1491
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:48,000
Speaker 4: she lets a perfect stranger into her home, stands like

1492
01:21:48,160 --> 01:21:49,400
Speaker 4: one inch away from him.

1493
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:53,240
Speaker 3: And also she knows this this information about Domino the

1494
01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:55,519
Speaker 3: whole time, Like why would you behave that way?

1495
01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:55,920
Speaker 5: Right?

1496
01:21:56,080 --> 01:21:57,720
Speaker 6: That's how he behaves when he has to tell his

1497
01:21:58,040 --> 01:21:59,760
Speaker 6: patients that they're like terminally ill.

1498
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:04,519
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, yeah, right, that news, babe.

1499
01:22:06,080 --> 01:22:08,920
Speaker 4: But I guess my question is, like why is that

1500
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:12,080
Speaker 4: detail in the movie? And I was like Okay, is

1501
01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:16,240
Speaker 4: it that like the movie has an anti sex worker

1502
01:22:16,360 --> 01:22:19,640
Speaker 4: prejudice where it's like trying to offer some sort of

1503
01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:24,800
Speaker 4: cautionary tale of like don't cheat on your wife, especially

1504
01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:28,040
Speaker 4: not with a sex worker, because then you'll end up

1505
01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:31,960
Speaker 4: with a disease or what exactly.

1506
01:22:33,000 --> 01:22:37,799
Speaker 6: My take on it is actually further in the Cockinging,

1507
01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:41,280
Speaker 6: which is like it's Kubrick showing at ever it's like

1508
01:22:41,479 --> 01:22:44,680
Speaker 6: he's he's he's getting caught from like a like a

1509
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:48,320
Speaker 6: societal perspective where it's like you're not like rich enough,

1510
01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:50,960
Speaker 6: and then like you're getting caught from like an interpersonal

1511
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:53,040
Speaker 6: perspective where it's like you don't have enough game you

1512
01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:54,960
Speaker 6: understand your wife, and then then now you're getting caught

1513
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:57,760
Speaker 6: from like a cultural perspective where it's like, oh, there's

1514
01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:01,400
Speaker 6: actually like a bigger conversation that you're not even like

1515
01:23:01,600 --> 01:23:06,200
Speaker 6: aware of that could also impede you having sex.

1516
01:23:06,360 --> 01:23:09,439
Speaker 3: Maybe I was curious about that, yeah, because I was

1517
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:13,640
Speaker 3: looking into like if there was a version of that

1518
01:23:14,040 --> 01:23:18,200
Speaker 3: in dream Story, but it doesn't in the book. It

1519
01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:21,360
Speaker 3: just says he looks for her name's Mitzi in the book,

1520
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:24,040
Speaker 3: but he can't find her. So that was like an

1521
01:23:24,080 --> 01:23:26,720
Speaker 3: intentionally added, right, I couldn't make other tales of it.

1522
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:29,000
Speaker 3: I think, honey, what you're saying makes a lot of sense.

1523
01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:32,360
Speaker 5: Because Kubrick doesn't really like he's not like a cautious

1524
01:23:33,040 --> 01:23:36,040
Speaker 5: man like he's it's kind of like fuck caution and

1525
01:23:36,120 --> 01:23:36,800
Speaker 5: you know what I mean.

1526
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:41,280
Speaker 3: No, this is the guy who whiffed Lolita at unprecedented levels.

1527
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:45,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, exactly, So I don't know.

1528
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:47,880
Speaker 6: I thought that scene was curious too and why that

1529
01:23:48,040 --> 01:23:52,720
Speaker 6: detail would be relevant, But I guess my take on

1530
01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:59,000
Speaker 6: it was part of Tom Cruise's character's narcissism where he's like, oh,

1531
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:00,920
Speaker 6: something else is getting in the way of my nut

1532
01:24:01,080 --> 01:24:03,400
Speaker 6: and it's aids right.

1533
01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:05,519
Speaker 3: And then he's like polite about it, but then gets

1534
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:07,320
Speaker 3: the fuck out of there. It doesn't offer it any

1535
01:24:07,439 --> 01:24:10,040
Speaker 3: further help or anything like totally yeah.

1536
01:24:10,040 --> 01:24:12,400
Speaker 5: And I mean maybe it's also like part of him

1537
01:24:12,439 --> 01:24:18,439
Speaker 5: being like a medical professional or something I don't know, right, Well.

1538
01:24:18,320 --> 01:24:20,639
Speaker 4: The same way that he doesn't do anything to try

1539
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:24,840
Speaker 4: to help the lely Sobiesky character, who yes, like he's

1540
01:24:24,920 --> 01:24:27,360
Speaker 4: just like, oh weird, the dynamic is shifted.

1541
01:24:27,479 --> 01:24:30,040
Speaker 5: It's like a concubine tea and he's like gotta go.

1542
01:24:30,360 --> 01:24:34,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, and he's like, well, sorry about the mask, I've

1543
01:24:34,160 --> 01:24:36,360
Speaker 4: lost it by what right?

1544
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:40,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, It's like he a man, I'm like, is this

1545
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:46,120
Speaker 3: Vivie so amazing? Where it's like he he always behaves politely,

1546
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:48,720
Speaker 3: but that doesn't mean that he's doing the right thing.

1547
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:50,720
Speaker 3: He's almost never doing the right thing right.

1548
01:24:51,200 --> 01:24:52,840
Speaker 6: Well, he only does at the very beginning where it's

1549
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:56,840
Speaker 6: like his willingness to help the model Amanda or Mandy

1550
01:24:57,200 --> 01:25:00,880
Speaker 6: Mandy Mandy, where it's like he he was so willing

1551
01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:03,760
Speaker 6: to like meet and be the real medical professional, but

1552
01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:06,360
Speaker 6: as as the time is going on where he has

1553
01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:09,320
Speaker 6: yet to get laid, he's like, I'm kind of need

1554
01:25:09,400 --> 01:25:11,320
Speaker 6: to get out of here and go sorry.

1555
01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:14,240
Speaker 3: Right, And even like it's it's implied that oh, what's

1556
01:25:14,240 --> 01:25:18,160
Speaker 3: her name, Marion, the daughter of the patient who dies,

1557
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:23,719
Speaker 3: It's implied like he's again very polite in extracting himself

1558
01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:27,760
Speaker 3: from that situation in the moment, but then it's clear

1559
01:25:27,880 --> 01:25:30,760
Speaker 3: he doesn't actually care because when he feels insecure and

1560
01:25:30,880 --> 01:25:33,760
Speaker 3: on his heels, he calls her and so it's like

1561
01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:37,040
Speaker 3: he is not above any of this. He just can't

1562
01:25:37,280 --> 01:25:43,439
Speaker 3: close to save his fucking life, Like I don't know,

1563
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:48,360
Speaker 3: curious a curious little movie. I wanted to mention that,

1564
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:52,920
Speaker 3: because this movie is so much about tumultuous straight marriage,

1565
01:25:54,200 --> 01:25:57,200
Speaker 3: that many of the paintings, most of the paintings in

1566
01:25:57,360 --> 01:26:01,919
Speaker 3: the Harford Household were painted by Stanley Kubrick's wife, Christian.

1567
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:03,840
Speaker 3: She was like an accomplished painter.

1568
01:26:04,080 --> 01:26:05,480
Speaker 5: Oh fascinating.

1569
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:12,200
Speaker 4: Also, that set is a recreation of Stanley Kupbrig's and his.

1570
01:26:12,360 --> 01:26:16,760
Speaker 5: Wife's real home, the apartment or the sex party.

1571
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:17,479
Speaker 4: No, the apartment.

1572
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 5: Oh, I got it. Oh my god, he's so messy.

1573
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:22,040
Speaker 5: I'm like, bro.

1574
01:26:22,800 --> 01:26:25,760
Speaker 3: Good for Christian being like, we've got to wait until

1575
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:29,640
Speaker 3: you're basically dead to do this, because I'm not carrying this.

1576
01:26:30,280 --> 01:26:31,480
Speaker 5: I'm not carrying.

1577
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:36,439
Speaker 4: Because he died, I believe, of a heart attack six

1578
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:39,599
Speaker 4: days after showing the final cut of Eyes Wed Shut

1579
01:26:39,680 --> 01:26:40,679
Speaker 4: to Warner Brothers.

1580
01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:46,799
Speaker 6: I also like to think about what Tom's character thinks

1581
01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:53,080
Speaker 6: he would gain spiritually existentially from infidelity and from closing,

1582
01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:57,400
Speaker 6: where it's like this like immense desperation that carries the

1583
01:26:57,640 --> 01:27:01,560
Speaker 6: entire movie that's exclusively inspired by his wife having a

1584
01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:05,040
Speaker 6: dream once, It's like it's kind of it kind of

1585
01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:09,240
Speaker 6: seems like he was never even considering what a different

1586
01:27:09,280 --> 01:27:12,280
Speaker 6: libin in all reality for him would even offer him

1587
01:27:12,360 --> 01:27:15,040
Speaker 6: outside of it being like conquest that comes from being

1588
01:27:15,120 --> 01:27:17,559
Speaker 6: like emasculated. It's like, what's like, what do you think

1589
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:21,680
Speaker 6: you would even get spiritually, like personally from doing this.

1590
01:27:22,280 --> 01:27:25,680
Speaker 4: It's all about male fragility. Ever heard of it?

1591
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:28,800
Speaker 3: Yeah? Exactly, And I think a lot of Kuprick's work

1592
01:27:28,880 --> 01:27:30,920
Speaker 3: is about that. The more I was thinking about like

1593
01:27:31,120 --> 01:27:35,679
Speaker 3: zooming out on what his filmography seems to be about.

1594
01:27:35,960 --> 01:27:38,920
Speaker 3: And again it's like, not that he's making an intelligent

1595
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:42,120
Speaker 3: comment on women at really any point. I can't think

1596
01:27:42,160 --> 01:27:44,200
Speaker 3: of an example where he is, but it does seem

1597
01:27:44,320 --> 01:27:48,000
Speaker 3: like he has an eye for like very fragile men

1598
01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:49,840
Speaker 3: lashing out, I.

1599
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:52,400
Speaker 5: Mean and ruining their lives essentially.

1600
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:55,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, the shining for us?

1601
01:27:56,280 --> 01:27:58,040
Speaker 5: Yeah right, if you will.

1602
01:27:58,800 --> 01:28:07,000
Speaker 4: Right, because Bill is again so emasculated by his wife Alice,

1603
01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:11,880
Speaker 4: being a real person with real desires and real feelings,

1604
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:16,599
Speaker 4: and he can't He just simply cannot comprehend or handle

1605
01:28:16,680 --> 01:28:20,880
Speaker 4: it except to seek revenge. Basically, it seems like he's

1606
01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:26,120
Speaker 4: on this quest to, oh, well, if my wife had

1607
01:28:26,160 --> 01:28:29,920
Speaker 4: a dream about having sex with someone else, well it's

1608
01:28:30,040 --> 01:28:30,960
Speaker 4: payback time.

1609
01:28:31,200 --> 01:28:33,280
Speaker 5: It's like you don't have dreams, babe, Like what do

1610
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:36,559
Speaker 5: you do when you sleep? You just cut to black

1611
01:28:36,640 --> 01:28:37,760
Speaker 5: and wake up eight hours later.

1612
01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:42,439
Speaker 4: So again it's all about like the ownership he feels

1613
01:28:43,040 --> 01:28:48,560
Speaker 4: over her, and he can't handle this person who he

1614
01:28:48,960 --> 01:28:53,280
Speaker 4: deems as his property having any kind of autonomy or

1615
01:28:53,320 --> 01:28:57,120
Speaker 4: anything like that, and so he goes out looking for

1616
01:28:57,880 --> 01:28:58,880
Speaker 4: a revenge. Fuck.

1617
01:28:59,080 --> 01:29:01,120
Speaker 5: Basically, definitely, and.

1618
01:29:01,200 --> 01:29:04,000
Speaker 3: It's kind of I mean, it's like devastating from the

1619
01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:08,120
Speaker 3: Alice character's perspective, where she is like genuinely reaching out

1620
01:29:08,240 --> 01:29:11,479
Speaker 3: and trying to get her husband to be a little

1621
01:29:11,640 --> 01:29:15,280
Speaker 3: vulnerable with her and he will not. Budget Yes, it

1622
01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:17,519
Speaker 3: makes me sad for her too, because it feels like

1623
01:29:17,600 --> 01:29:19,960
Speaker 3: this marriage has taken a lot from her, a lot

1624
01:29:20,040 --> 01:29:23,040
Speaker 3: of things that she wants, like, you know, someone who

1625
01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:28,120
Speaker 3: is supportive of her career, like someone who can have

1626
01:29:28,240 --> 01:29:31,479
Speaker 3: an honest fucking conversation, like someone who respects her at

1627
01:29:31,479 --> 01:29:33,400
Speaker 3: a base level. It seems like she has none of.

1628
01:29:33,439 --> 01:29:36,160
Speaker 6: This right and I think that at the end of

1629
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:39,560
Speaker 6: the movie, I think she has the upper hand. Like

1630
01:29:39,800 --> 01:29:41,880
Speaker 6: I think by the end of the movie, she sees

1631
01:29:42,840 --> 01:29:48,839
Speaker 6: his insecurity is so whole and knows that her admitting

1632
01:29:49,600 --> 01:29:52,519
Speaker 6: her truth sent him on a spiral that he will

1633
01:29:52,600 --> 01:29:56,400
Speaker 6: never be able to recover from, and she knows that

1634
01:29:56,600 --> 01:30:00,440
Speaker 6: her sexuality actually fully holds the power in the releaseationship.

1635
01:30:00,640 --> 01:30:00,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1636
01:30:01,439 --> 01:30:04,080
Speaker 4: I was curious about that because like her being like, well,

1637
01:30:04,160 --> 01:30:07,680
Speaker 4: the way to address this marital issue we're having is

1638
01:30:07,800 --> 01:30:10,200
Speaker 4: Rosta's fox. I'm like, is that part of his dream

1639
01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:14,800
Speaker 4: still or is that just her kind of like understanding

1640
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:17,920
Speaker 4: that she now has some power in this situation. I'm

1641
01:30:17,960 --> 01:30:20,960
Speaker 4: not sure because when he tells her, like the next

1642
01:30:21,040 --> 01:30:24,880
Speaker 4: morning after he has told her about this whole you know,

1643
01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:29,680
Speaker 4: wild night he's had, she for the first time is

1644
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:33,200
Speaker 4: like seen without a full face of makeup. Yeah, And

1645
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:36,320
Speaker 4: like I'm like, oh, this seems like reality again. It

1646
01:30:36,400 --> 01:30:40,840
Speaker 4: doesn't seem like he's projecting or imagining or fantasizing or whatever.

1647
01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:43,880
Speaker 4: So is the rest of the movie from that point on,

1648
01:30:44,200 --> 01:30:46,559
Speaker 4: which is only like I don't know, five more minutes.

1649
01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:49,200
Speaker 4: Is that reality again?

1650
01:30:49,640 --> 01:30:51,920
Speaker 5: Or I thought it was reality again?

1651
01:30:52,200 --> 01:30:52,439
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1652
01:30:52,640 --> 01:30:55,880
Speaker 3: I did too, because it's like again, I'm like, maybe

1653
01:30:55,920 --> 01:30:59,200
Speaker 3: I'm overthinking it. But the store is crowded at the end.

1654
01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:02,360
Speaker 3: It seems like actually it's New York at Christmas, Like

1655
01:31:02,439 --> 01:31:05,320
Speaker 3: there's people where I feel like for all of the

1656
01:31:05,400 --> 01:31:09,799
Speaker 3: parts that feel very unreal, like there's no one around

1657
01:31:10,120 --> 01:31:13,160
Speaker 3: except the person that he's talking to or reacting to him.

1658
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:15,479
Speaker 3: But towards the end, it's like the lighting is more

1659
01:31:16,040 --> 01:31:20,680
Speaker 3: realistic and it's busy and I don't know, and.

1660
01:31:20,760 --> 01:31:23,679
Speaker 5: Once again, poor Helena, she's like, I want a Teddy Bear.

1661
01:31:23,800 --> 01:31:27,519
Speaker 6: And they're talking about the like libidinal exchange of like

1662
01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:29,360
Speaker 6: infinite regrets, and.

1663
01:31:30,320 --> 01:31:37,639
Speaker 3: They're like and they're like, Teddy Come, she's been through enough.

1664
01:31:38,040 --> 01:31:41,439
Speaker 3: They won't even teach her math, Like she's she's cooked.

1665
01:31:42,600 --> 01:31:44,720
Speaker 4: She should have been adding up all the cash that

1666
01:31:44,880 --> 01:31:47,439
Speaker 4: her dad was throwing around that night.

1667
01:31:47,880 --> 01:31:49,880
Speaker 3: The cook budget. It's built into the budget.

1668
01:31:53,280 --> 01:31:56,200
Speaker 4: Does anyone have anything else they'd like to chat about?

1669
01:31:56,680 --> 01:31:58,920
Speaker 5: I don't know. Let me look at my little notes.

1670
01:31:58,640 --> 01:31:59,200
Speaker 3: That I took.

1671
01:32:00,240 --> 01:32:04,679
Speaker 4: Apparently, in twenty nineteen, it was revealed that the voice

1672
01:32:04,760 --> 01:32:10,000
Speaker 4: of the mysterious masked woman at the party it was

1673
01:32:10,080 --> 01:32:13,640
Speaker 4: done in voiceover because the original actor apparently couldn't do

1674
01:32:13,760 --> 01:32:18,720
Speaker 4: a convincing enough American accent, so they had another non

1675
01:32:18,720 --> 01:32:21,120
Speaker 4: American do an American accent, but it had a Kate

1676
01:32:21,200 --> 01:32:23,360
Speaker 4: Blanchett Oh provide the voice.

1677
01:32:23,439 --> 01:32:25,840
Speaker 5: That's so cool, She's everywhere at once.

1678
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:29,160
Speaker 6: The only thing that I wrote down was I found

1679
01:32:29,160 --> 01:32:31,760
Speaker 6: that Tom's character was also extremely insecure, and he was

1680
01:32:31,800 --> 01:32:36,000
Speaker 6: talking to men too, where he like there's the series

1681
01:32:36,080 --> 01:32:38,880
Speaker 6: with Nick and they keep like slapping each other. It's like,

1682
01:32:39,400 --> 01:32:43,240
Speaker 6: so this like macho bravado that I was really touched

1683
01:32:43,400 --> 01:32:48,520
Speaker 6: by how insecure he was, even in his patriarchal conversations,

1684
01:32:48,600 --> 01:32:50,559
Speaker 6: where it's like you could tell he was always trying

1685
01:32:50,600 --> 01:32:53,879
Speaker 6: to like get above something, but he could never really find.

1686
01:32:53,720 --> 01:32:54,640
Speaker 5: His footing right.

1687
01:32:54,760 --> 01:32:58,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean even his approaching Nick above anyone else

1688
01:32:58,439 --> 01:33:00,320
Speaker 3: at that first party is like, oh, this is a

1689
01:33:00,439 --> 01:33:02,720
Speaker 3: former peer of mine who I now perceive to have

1690
01:33:02,920 --> 01:33:06,439
Speaker 3: less power than me. Let me go talk to him.

1691
01:33:06,479 --> 01:33:08,920
Speaker 3: So it's like, yeah, he's not comfortable talking to men

1692
01:33:09,080 --> 01:33:11,120
Speaker 3: he perceives to be more powerful than him.

1693
01:33:11,400 --> 01:33:14,599
Speaker 6: And it's like it's men who are revealing these secrets

1694
01:33:14,600 --> 01:33:17,080
Speaker 6: to him as well. It's like it's like this weird

1695
01:33:17,120 --> 01:33:20,240
Speaker 6: as hazing that's like fraternal hazing, that.

1696
01:33:20,360 --> 01:33:23,560
Speaker 5: He's always one step behind. M h. I'm like, you

1697
01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:25,599
Speaker 5: don't talk to your bros, dude, you don't know about

1698
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:26,960
Speaker 5: the secret society.

1699
01:33:26,800 --> 01:33:30,280
Speaker 3: Like come on, he's got no friends. We gotta get oh,

1700
01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:32,280
Speaker 3: he's got nothing going for him.

1701
01:33:32,320 --> 01:33:32,960
Speaker 5: It's really shit.

1702
01:33:33,080 --> 01:33:34,519
Speaker 3: We gotta get this guy some friends.

1703
01:33:34,600 --> 01:33:42,920
Speaker 4: Stat Another just production fun fact is that the way

1704
01:33:42,960 --> 01:33:45,880
Speaker 4: it was shot originally probably would have garnered a more

1705
01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:50,280
Speaker 4: like NC seventeen rating. So to ensure that it could

1706
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:53,280
Speaker 4: be released theatrically with an R rating in the US,

1707
01:33:54,520 --> 01:33:57,960
Speaker 4: Warner Brothers digitally altered several of the like very sexually

1708
01:33:58,000 --> 01:34:00,559
Speaker 4: explicit scenes. And I think I think it's that they

1709
01:34:01,320 --> 01:34:05,240
Speaker 4: put in like cgi cloaked figures in front of interesting

1710
01:34:05,280 --> 01:34:09,160
Speaker 4: people having sex to sort of like obscure the more

1711
01:34:09,280 --> 01:34:09,880
Speaker 4: graphics time.

1712
01:34:09,960 --> 01:34:13,120
Speaker 3: I also, this is a movie for how horny this

1713
01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:17,280
Speaker 3: movie is. I didn't see I just only saw women.

1714
01:34:17,439 --> 01:34:19,519
Speaker 3: Like I know that we've like sort of touched on this,

1715
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:23,799
Speaker 3: but like you only see like cis women's bodies shown

1716
01:34:24,080 --> 01:34:26,120
Speaker 3: and put it, which does feed into the theory that

1717
01:34:26,200 --> 01:34:28,320
Speaker 3: we're just seeing the world through Bill's eyes. But like

1718
01:34:29,000 --> 01:34:32,160
Speaker 3: anyone who is an assis woman, their body is obscured

1719
01:34:32,360 --> 01:34:33,200
Speaker 3: for the full movie.

1720
01:34:33,520 --> 01:34:35,640
Speaker 6: Yeah right, Oh, there was a I don't know if

1721
01:34:35,720 --> 01:34:39,559
Speaker 6: y'all caught this, but as he's leaving the party, there's

1722
01:34:39,720 --> 01:34:40,920
Speaker 6: gay couples too.

1723
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:43,960
Speaker 4: Oh I did see a glimpse of that.

1724
01:34:44,200 --> 01:34:47,120
Speaker 6: Yes, as he was leaving the party, it's like women

1725
01:34:47,240 --> 01:34:50,240
Speaker 6: in tuxedos with naked women, and then it's like men

1726
01:34:50,320 --> 01:34:52,439
Speaker 6: in tuxedos with naked men with masks on.

1727
01:34:52,800 --> 01:34:56,320
Speaker 5: For like what like ten seconds, I missed that. I

1728
01:34:56,360 --> 01:34:59,080
Speaker 5: was like, why not have some representation for sex party?

1729
01:34:59,360 --> 01:35:01,240
Speaker 3: And it's just walking past.

1730
01:35:01,400 --> 01:35:04,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, And he's like, I didn't get the download

1731
01:35:04,520 --> 01:35:06,519
Speaker 5: on that yet. He's like, I don't know about gay yet.

1732
01:35:06,720 --> 01:35:07,479
Speaker 3: We'll circle back.

1733
01:35:07,560 --> 01:35:09,400
Speaker 5: We'll circle back, yeah, exactly.

1734
01:35:10,840 --> 01:35:15,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, anything else from anybody, I don't think so. I

1735
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:19,839
Speaker 4: do believe the movie passes the Bechdel test. When Alice

1736
01:35:19,960 --> 01:35:23,559
Speaker 4: and her daughter Helena talk about math women in.

1737
01:35:23,560 --> 01:35:26,600
Speaker 5: STU, women in stad, we did it.

1738
01:35:26,800 --> 01:35:27,240
Speaker 2: We did it.

1739
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:28,240
Speaker 5: Yep, we did it.

1740
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:33,160
Speaker 4: But as far as our scale, the nipple scale, where

1741
01:35:33,280 --> 01:35:37,040
Speaker 4: we rate the movie from zero to five nipples based

1742
01:35:37,080 --> 01:35:42,240
Speaker 4: on examining the movie through an intersectional feminist lens, choosing

1743
01:35:42,320 --> 01:35:46,560
Speaker 4: to experience the movie through the lens of this is

1744
01:35:46,760 --> 01:35:51,479
Speaker 4: very much the character of Bill's perception and like projection

1745
01:35:52,320 --> 01:35:59,360
Speaker 4: of his very intense misogyny and patriarchal values informing why

1746
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:03,720
Speaker 4: the characters who are women behave the way that they do, because, again,

1747
01:36:03,760 --> 01:36:06,120
Speaker 4: looking at it, at very phase value. It doesn't fare

1748
01:36:06,280 --> 01:36:09,160
Speaker 4: very well on our scale. But I do think the

1749
01:36:09,240 --> 01:36:18,280
Speaker 4: movie is an indictment of male fragility and the toxicity

1750
01:36:18,640 --> 01:36:23,800
Speaker 4: of men being emasculated and what that and how that manifests.

1751
01:36:24,320 --> 01:36:26,800
Speaker 4: So because of that, I mean, I don't know, I

1752
01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:29,040
Speaker 4: think like split down the middle a two point five

1753
01:36:29,120 --> 01:36:33,120
Speaker 4: nipples or does it deserve more? I don't know. This

1754
01:36:33,240 --> 01:36:35,320
Speaker 4: one's really a head scratcher.

1755
01:36:35,760 --> 01:36:38,919
Speaker 6: I mean, I think that there's like inherent and hilarious

1756
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:41,799
Speaker 6: patriarchy and having the nipple scale be a head scratcher

1757
01:36:41,880 --> 01:36:45,760
Speaker 6: because you have to understand it as through men, you

1758
01:36:45,840 --> 01:36:51,960
Speaker 6: know what I mean. It's like, obviously patriarchy exists because

1759
01:36:52,200 --> 01:36:56,200
Speaker 6: men are really fragile and challenging, and that's bolstered societally.

1760
01:36:56,680 --> 01:36:59,799
Speaker 6: So like should y'all change the scale of the nipple

1761
01:37:00,479 --> 01:37:03,080
Speaker 6: in order to make room for that? Like, I don't

1762
01:37:03,080 --> 01:37:04,040
Speaker 6: even know if that's fair.

1763
01:37:04,320 --> 01:37:08,960
Speaker 3: It's blowing up the system. The system is totally.

1764
01:37:09,880 --> 01:37:14,240
Speaker 5: Where I guess if the nipples could also be men's,

1765
01:37:15,040 --> 01:37:15,679
Speaker 5: it's like if.

1766
01:37:15,640 --> 01:37:18,120
Speaker 6: If the nipples are gender neutral, And we're talking about

1767
01:37:18,160 --> 01:37:22,439
Speaker 6: like a movie that really does a perverse and wonderful

1768
01:37:22,600 --> 01:37:27,719
Speaker 6: job at trying to explain gender, then ramp up the nipple.

1769
01:37:28,040 --> 01:37:29,799
Speaker 5: I guess maybe just like a four.

1770
01:37:29,760 --> 01:37:35,840
Speaker 4: Even you know what I'm gonna do three point two five?

1771
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:38,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, wow, I think that's very fair.

1772
01:37:38,360 --> 01:37:42,960
Speaker 4: Thank you so much. And I'll give them to Alice

1773
01:37:43,280 --> 01:37:47,720
Speaker 4: and Helena because because who were they doing nothing wrong?

1774
01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:48,679
Speaker 4: Who were they probably?

1775
01:37:49,160 --> 01:37:51,560
Speaker 3: Who were they up to that whole weekend? I don't know,

1776
01:37:51,640 --> 01:37:55,640
Speaker 3: We'll never know the last weekend. I don't even know.

1777
01:37:55,760 --> 01:37:58,320
Speaker 3: I think I'm gonna abstain from nipples in this one

1778
01:37:58,360 --> 01:38:00,479
Speaker 3: because I feel like this movie is doing something very

1779
01:38:01,360 --> 01:38:04,680
Speaker 3: weird and unique that I really appreciate, and also like

1780
01:38:05,240 --> 01:38:07,439
Speaker 3: I really do like I mean, I feel like this

1781
01:38:07,960 --> 01:38:12,719
Speaker 3: with a lot of Stanley Kubrick work I've seen accepting

1782
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:19,400
Speaker 3: Lolita again because that's a trash adaptation and he should

1783
01:38:19,400 --> 01:38:23,640
Speaker 3: have gone to prison for it, but he didn't, and

1784
01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:26,160
Speaker 3: so we have eyeswead shut. I think this is a

1785
01:38:26,280 --> 01:38:32,280
Speaker 3: really thoughtful like it just makes, you know, traditional waspy

1786
01:38:32,439 --> 01:38:35,920
Speaker 3: American masculinity look like a fucking nightmare.

1787
01:38:35,840 --> 01:38:38,559
Speaker 5: To have to uphold. And it's like, definitely it's a.

1788
01:38:38,640 --> 01:38:43,200
Speaker 3: Zero sum game. Doctor Bill is suffering this entire movie,

1789
01:38:43,439 --> 01:38:47,560
Speaker 3: and everyone around him is suffering as an extension And

1790
01:38:48,240 --> 01:38:51,840
Speaker 3: I was really taken aback by this movie this time around.

1791
01:38:52,720 --> 01:38:57,400
Speaker 3: And you know, does it have anything to say about women?

1792
01:38:58,439 --> 01:39:02,519
Speaker 3: Not really, but I don't think that that is the point.

1793
01:39:02,560 --> 01:39:05,600
Speaker 3: And I feel like this, to me is like Kubrick's

1794
01:39:05,680 --> 01:39:08,519
Speaker 3: cheat Code, where it's like he is actually talking about

1795
01:39:08,600 --> 01:39:13,360
Speaker 3: gender really intensely and thoughtfully, but like from a perspective

1796
01:39:13,400 --> 01:39:16,760
Speaker 3: that he understands. Yeah, and it feels effective. Like I

1797
01:39:16,840 --> 01:39:20,040
Speaker 3: don't think I really am interested in Kubrick's I mean,

1798
01:39:20,080 --> 01:39:22,760
Speaker 3: I actually kind of know I'm not interested in Kubrick's

1799
01:39:23,600 --> 01:39:27,040
Speaker 3: interpretation of women. I don't think he really you know,

1800
01:39:27,360 --> 01:39:29,640
Speaker 3: that ever really connected at least in his work that

1801
01:39:29,720 --> 01:39:31,720
Speaker 3: I've seen. But I think he has a really good

1802
01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:37,200
Speaker 3: eye for like insecurity in these like masculine structures, and

1803
01:39:37,600 --> 01:39:39,600
Speaker 3: this is like a really great version of it. And

1804
01:39:40,280 --> 01:39:46,360
Speaker 3: again like Tom Cruise cult Leader, however, like I really

1805
01:39:46,600 --> 01:39:49,080
Speaker 3: I like this era of his work a lot where

1806
01:39:49,120 --> 01:39:52,840
Speaker 3: he was really willing to like give up or like

1807
01:39:53,040 --> 01:39:56,559
Speaker 3: you know, give away pieces of this hyper masculine movie

1808
01:39:56,640 --> 01:39:59,960
Speaker 3: star persona and really seem vulnerable. Like I feel like

1809
01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:03,439
Speaker 3: this movie doesn't work without his performance or without Nicole

1810
01:40:03,560 --> 01:40:07,120
Speaker 3: Kidman's performance, because just the amount of layers of like

1811
01:40:07,280 --> 01:40:11,559
Speaker 3: she's performing how the character sees her, and it's her husband,

1812
01:40:11,960 --> 01:40:13,840
Speaker 3: and it's a Kubrick movie, so they have to do

1813
01:40:14,080 --> 01:40:16,479
Speaker 3: three thousand takes of every single shot.

1814
01:40:17,080 --> 01:40:20,559
Speaker 4: He made Tom Cruise walk through a doorway ninety five times.

1815
01:40:21,040 --> 01:40:24,880
Speaker 3: WHOA, yeah, cook, Truly, he's like the most famous man

1816
01:40:24,920 --> 01:40:26,840
Speaker 3: in the world. What can I do? And this is

1817
01:40:27,360 --> 01:40:29,200
Speaker 3: this is a sort of another conversation. But I know

1818
01:40:29,240 --> 01:40:31,080
Speaker 3: when we talked about The Shining back in the day,

1819
01:40:31,200 --> 01:40:35,360
Speaker 3: that it was a more prominent cultural narrative at that

1820
01:40:35,439 --> 01:40:38,920
Speaker 3: time that he tortured Shelley Duvall on that movie and

1821
01:40:39,080 --> 01:40:42,720
Speaker 3: Scatman Cruthers and Scatman Brothers. I can't speak to Scotmancrouthers.

1822
01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:45,000
Speaker 3: I do know that later in her life, because Shelley

1823
01:40:45,040 --> 01:40:49,200
Speaker 3: Devalt just passed, she kind of significantly pushed back on

1824
01:40:49,760 --> 01:40:53,519
Speaker 3: that narrative. Not to say Stanley Kuperck innocent, it really

1825
01:40:53,560 --> 01:40:55,800
Speaker 3: does seem like part of his process is kind of

1826
01:40:55,880 --> 01:40:59,640
Speaker 3: torturing his actors. Yeah, and the crew. I mean, this

1827
01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:01,840
Speaker 3: movie if you did not need to take two years

1828
01:41:01,880 --> 01:41:04,439
Speaker 3: to shoot or whatever, right, But I don't know, I

1829
01:41:04,560 --> 01:41:06,840
Speaker 3: just like I have been like thinking about his work

1830
01:41:06,840 --> 01:41:10,120
Speaker 3: a little differently since I read sort of Shelley Devall's

1831
01:41:10,120 --> 01:41:12,759
Speaker 3: account where she was like, it was brutal, it was horrible,

1832
01:41:13,160 --> 01:41:16,560
Speaker 3: but I care about him and I wasn't like, I

1833
01:41:16,640 --> 01:41:19,240
Speaker 3: don't hold any sort of animosity towards it, which also

1834
01:41:19,320 --> 01:41:22,880
Speaker 3: seems how both Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman remember this

1835
01:41:23,000 --> 01:41:25,240
Speaker 3: experience where like he was torturing us, but like he

1836
01:41:25,360 --> 01:41:28,240
Speaker 3: was cooking. Yeah, which is interesting, and I think that

1837
01:41:28,320 --> 01:41:31,559
Speaker 3: there is a level of privilege encoded in that as

1838
01:41:31,600 --> 01:41:35,080
Speaker 3: well of like the you know, these like cispenotur geniuses

1839
01:41:35,439 --> 01:41:38,120
Speaker 3: are always given a way longer leash with what is

1840
01:41:38,200 --> 01:41:42,240
Speaker 3: permissible behavior. That definitely factors into it. But for sure, anyways,

1841
01:41:42,280 --> 01:41:45,479
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, he was cooking here, and I don't

1842
01:41:45,560 --> 01:41:47,840
Speaker 3: know nipples. I quit for this one.

1843
01:41:48,439 --> 01:41:50,719
Speaker 4: That's fine, Yeah, honey, do you have any thoughts.

1844
01:41:50,960 --> 01:41:54,519
Speaker 5: I don't know nipples either. I mean, there's probably like

1845
01:41:54,680 --> 01:41:58,320
Speaker 5: one hundred thousand nipples in the movie, so it's definitely

1846
01:41:58,360 --> 01:42:00,800
Speaker 5: a nipple heavy film home for sure.

1847
01:42:01,120 --> 01:42:04,400
Speaker 6: But I think that what y'all are saying is I

1848
01:42:04,560 --> 01:42:08,200
Speaker 6: agree with and it's a student To grade the movie

1849
01:42:08,360 --> 01:42:15,639
Speaker 6: on a scale of intersectional feminism seems impossible because women

1850
01:42:15,840 --> 01:42:18,519
Speaker 6: were only seen as projections of men.

1851
01:42:18,800 --> 01:42:21,240
Speaker 5: So I don't think I can rate it on that scale.

1852
01:42:22,040 --> 01:42:24,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, but I think it's an awesome movie about gender right,

1853
01:42:25,120 --> 01:42:28,280
Speaker 6: And I know it's curious thinking about what an insane

1854
01:42:28,320 --> 01:42:30,720
Speaker 6: cult leader, misogynist Tom cruises. And then it's like, what

1855
01:42:30,840 --> 01:42:32,680
Speaker 6: did you think this movie was about? You know, I

1856
01:42:32,720 --> 01:42:34,360
Speaker 6: think it's all you know what I mean, what do

1857
01:42:34,479 --> 01:42:35,280
Speaker 6: you think you were doing?

1858
01:42:35,520 --> 01:42:37,959
Speaker 4: He's the guy in the red cloak going.

1859
01:42:37,920 --> 01:42:42,360
Speaker 5: Literally, yeah exactly, you were the one Gregory chanting what

1860
01:42:42,439 --> 01:42:43,240
Speaker 5: do you think is going on?

1861
01:42:43,720 --> 01:42:46,719
Speaker 3: I feel that way about Dennis Quaid in The Substance,

1862
01:42:46,800 --> 01:42:49,080
Speaker 3: where I was like, yeah, what does he think the

1863
01:42:49,240 --> 01:42:51,599
Speaker 3: Substance is about? Because he had he gives a great

1864
01:42:51,640 --> 01:42:54,840
Speaker 3: performance and he's a notorious piece of shit, and you're like, right,

1865
01:42:55,000 --> 01:42:57,799
Speaker 3: what did you think you were doing? Like I totally

1866
01:42:57,920 --> 01:42:59,640
Speaker 3: feeling don't know.

1867
01:43:00,640 --> 01:43:04,840
Speaker 4: Well, anyway, that's the episode. Honey, Thank you so much

1868
01:43:04,880 --> 01:43:05,519
Speaker 4: for joining us.

1869
01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:08,160
Speaker 5: Of course, thanks much for having me. This was so fun.

1870
01:43:08,360 --> 01:43:11,639
Speaker 3: The Little Mermaid to Ieswig Chut pipeline is complete. We've

1871
01:43:11,720 --> 01:43:11,960
Speaker 3: done it.

1872
01:43:12,080 --> 01:43:12,800
Speaker 5: We've done all.

1873
01:43:13,120 --> 01:43:18,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, where can people check out your work? Follow you

1874
01:43:18,479 --> 01:43:21,120
Speaker 4: on social media? Plug anything you want to plug.

1875
01:43:21,439 --> 01:43:24,320
Speaker 5: It's all my name at Honey Pluton. I have a

1876
01:43:24,400 --> 01:43:27,000
Speaker 5: podcast that was mentioned up top called Up Good with

1877
01:43:27,080 --> 01:43:32,639
Speaker 5: Honey Pluton. We love pod listen up and yeah follow

1878
01:43:32,760 --> 01:43:33,680
Speaker 5: me excellent.

1879
01:43:34,479 --> 01:43:40,759
Speaker 4: You can follow us on Instagram and Patreon that's patreon

1880
01:43:40,840 --> 01:43:45,920
Speaker 4: dot com slash Bechdelcast to join our Matreon community Q

1881
01:43:46,200 --> 01:43:49,840
Speaker 4: where you get two bonus I know right, You'll get

1882
01:43:49,880 --> 01:43:53,920
Speaker 4: two bonus episodes every month centering on a fun little

1883
01:43:53,960 --> 01:43:57,640
Speaker 4: theme that Jamie and myself cook up, plus access to

1884
01:43:57,920 --> 01:44:01,080
Speaker 4: the entire back catalog of over one hundred and fifty

1885
01:44:01,080 --> 01:44:03,840
Speaker 4: bonus episodes. So there's a lot of good stuff there

1886
01:44:03,920 --> 01:44:07,000
Speaker 4: and it's the best way to support the show. Also,

1887
01:44:07,240 --> 01:44:09,439
Speaker 4: don't forget to check out our live shows coming up

1888
01:44:09,520 --> 01:44:13,960
Speaker 4: in January. We've got one in La on January nineteenth.

1889
01:44:14,160 --> 01:44:18,440
Speaker 4: That is a big Bechdel Cast celebration, lots of fun segments.

1890
01:44:18,600 --> 01:44:21,719
Speaker 4: We've got stand up from some of your favorite past guests,

1891
01:44:21,880 --> 01:44:25,439
Speaker 4: plus from Jamie and myself, chats about movies, all kinds

1892
01:44:25,439 --> 01:44:28,280
Speaker 4: of fun stuff. That's live in La. Plus it's being

1893
01:44:28,360 --> 01:44:31,639
Speaker 4: live streamed, so you can watch that show from anywhere.

1894
01:44:32,360 --> 01:44:34,920
Speaker 4: Then we've got a show as a part of sketch

1895
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:38,640
Speaker 4: Fest in San Francisco on January twenty third that's a

1896
01:44:38,880 --> 01:44:42,680
Speaker 4: Shrek Tannic show where we're covering Titanic. And then the

1897
01:44:42,760 --> 01:44:45,559
Speaker 4: following night on January twenty fourth, also at sketch Fest,

1898
01:44:46,200 --> 01:44:50,479
Speaker 4: is a Honey's show called Jeppar Gay, which I am

1899
01:44:50,560 --> 01:44:52,719
Speaker 4: going to be one of the guests on, so please

1900
01:44:52,840 --> 01:44:55,800
Speaker 4: come check that out. And then finally we have a

1901
01:44:55,960 --> 01:45:00,200
Speaker 4: show in Portland on January twenty sixth that's an other

1902
01:45:00,280 --> 01:45:04,560
Speaker 4: Shrek Tannic show, this time we're covering Shrek and this

1903
01:45:04,680 --> 01:45:07,400
Speaker 4: one is also going to be live streamed, So all

1904
01:45:07,479 --> 01:45:10,400
Speaker 4: the tickets and all the other details are on our

1905
01:45:10,479 --> 01:45:14,320
Speaker 4: link tree link Tree slash Bechtel Cast, as well as

1906
01:45:14,400 --> 01:45:17,640
Speaker 4: the description of this episode. So please, please please come

1907
01:45:17,680 --> 01:45:21,960
Speaker 4: out to the shows, especially if you live in those areas.

1908
01:45:22,040 --> 01:45:24,840
Speaker 4: Come see us live. If not, tune into the live

1909
01:45:24,880 --> 01:45:29,400
Speaker 4: stream shows. Supporting our shows is the other best way

1910
01:45:29,760 --> 01:45:34,680
Speaker 4: to support this entire podcast. So yeah, I hope to

1911
01:45:34,840 --> 01:45:38,080
Speaker 4: see you there, and.

1912
01:45:38,200 --> 01:45:40,400
Speaker 3: You can get our merch at teapublic dot com slash

1913
01:45:40,520 --> 01:45:42,920
Speaker 3: Bechdel Cast. Holidays coming up, blah blah blah. Give it

1914
01:45:42,960 --> 01:45:45,200
Speaker 3: to the eyes wide shut in your life.

1915
01:45:48,439 --> 01:45:51,479
Speaker 4: And with that, shall we hop in a taxi and

1916
01:45:51,760 --> 01:45:53,679
Speaker 4: go to a sex party.

1917
01:45:53,840 --> 01:45:56,000
Speaker 3: I was gonna say it's time to fuck.

1918
01:45:56,240 --> 01:45:56,719
Speaker 5: It's time.

1919
01:45:57,439 --> 01:46:01,559
Speaker 3: Yeah that too, Bye Bye bye.

1920
01:46:05,240 --> 01:46:08,880
Speaker 4: The Bechdelcast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin

1921
01:46:08,960 --> 01:46:12,680
Speaker 4: Drante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by

1922
01:46:12,800 --> 01:46:15,720
Speaker 4: mo La Boord. Our theme song was composed by Mike

1923
01:46:15,840 --> 01:46:20,160
Speaker 4: Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskresenski. Our logo in merch

1924
01:46:20,360 --> 01:46:23,280
Speaker 4: is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to

1925
01:46:23,360 --> 01:46:27,760
Speaker 4: Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit

1926
01:46:27,840 --> 01:46:29,360
Speaker 4: link tree slash Bechdel Cast