WEBVTT - Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - August 25th, 2023 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:05.680 This is Bloomberg Business. Wait inside from the reporters and 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.440 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.680 global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:18.960 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:23.040 Hi, everyone, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Wee Weekend Podcast. 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:26.480 Another week where there were still YEP earnings more than 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.480 a dozen retailers, and then Tim, we know the big 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:30.680 one and video. 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:34.800 Yeah, people use the term blowout quarter a lot. This 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:36.479 was actually a blowout quarter. 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.280 For Invidia, absolutely and the stock was moving on the news. 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:41.240 All right, we'll kind of get to that a little 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:44.320 bit later. On politics also front and center, as former 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:47.760 President Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani and others turned themselves into 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.760 Georgia authorities as part of the criminal case related to 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:53.640 the twenty twenty presidential election. And then of course, the 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.640 Kansas City Fed's annual gathering and Jackson Hole put monetary 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:58.520 policy front and center again. 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:00.680 With the economy in mind, we'll floor the cost of 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.320 climate change and extreme heat when it comes to American 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:06.960 productivity in addition to their deadly toll on our fellow citizens. 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:09.600 Plus more details on the highly anticipated IPO of the 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:12.959 British ship designer ARM Holdings, and why the company needed 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:15.520 more than thirty five hundred words in its prospectus to 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:18.240 explain the risks it faces when it comes to China. 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:21.000 All that to come, we begin with the past week's 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:23.960 kickoff to the twenty twenty four presidential election, as eight 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:27.160 Republican hopefuls squared off in their first debate in Milwaukee, 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:29.560 with each looking to break Donald Trump's grip on the 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:32.800 party's voters, and yet only one seems to really be trying, 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:34.840 former New Jersey Governor Chris Christy. 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:38.640 We have to dispense with the person who said that 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:42.560 we need to suspend the Constitution to put forward his 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:46.279 political career. Mike Pence said no, and he deserves credit 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:46.600 for it. 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:49.840 That was former Governor Christy going after the former president 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:53.000 and praising the and Vice President Mike Pence on the 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.440 debate stage. Yet here in lies the rub. Long before 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:00.520 Christy devoted himself to stopping Trump, he helped annoy him, 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:03.760 becoming the first Republican candidate to drop out and endorse 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:06.160 Donald Trump back in twenty sixteen. 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:08.440 Head of the debate and writing about Chris Christi. In 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:11.600 this week's issue of Bloomberg BusinessWeek is the magazine's national 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.840 correspondent Josh Green, who offered up some insights into the 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:15.960 long shot strategy. 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:18.440 As I was looking at the race, of looking at 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:21.160 the field, one guy stood out, and now was Chris Christie. 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:28.480 Because Christy is a famously aggressive debater, very effective. He's 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:32.720 a big, larger than life character, and this cycle he's 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:36.239 the only Republican character who's really going after Donald Trump 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:39.119 with both barrels. So it looked like that this could 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.880 be a kind of inflection point in the race, one 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:45.880 that kind of lent itself to Christie's talents. And so 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:48.560 I went and traveled with him around South Carolina and 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.640 New Hampshire, talked to him about what his plan had 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:54.680 been and how he had gone from being an important 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:59.600 Trump endorser in twenty sixteen to today running against him 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:00.959 as Rum's loudest critic. 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:05.399 Tell us about your time spent with Chris Christy and 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:07.120 what you kind of took away from that. And I 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:10.440 am curious about how you maybe challenged him about Wait 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:12.200 a minute, you were his friend, now you're his critic. 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:13.919 Are you going to go back to being his friend? 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:14.720 Talk to us about that. 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:17.320 Yeah, I mean it was fascinating from kind of an 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:21.360 anthropological standpoint because I went down to South Carolina with Christy. 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.040 You know, Trump is very popular with Republicans still, and 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.120 so I was expecting a lot of kind of Trump 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.480 maga people to be in there shouting down Christy and 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.560 all sorts of confrontations, and instead what I found was 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:37.440 just the opposite. It was almost like a group therapy 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:40.800 session of you know, Republicans, some of who'd driven for 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:44.160 hours and even from other states to kind of come 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.760 and commune with Christy and kind of find the crowd 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:50.600 of people who were Republicans but didn't like Donald Trump. 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.560 There's sort of fewer and fewer numbers these days, and 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:57.760 all of them were sort of worshipful of Chris Christie. 0:03:57.760 --> 0:03:59.640 So it's really interesting to see that for all that 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:01.800 we see on the news and on social media about 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:06.720 how popular Trump continues to be, despite indictments, despite impeachments, 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:09.760 there still is a group of Republicans who are never 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:12.400 Trumpers and who are hoping that Trump won't be the 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:15.320 nominee in twenty twenty four. I think the problem for 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:17.679 Christie and the challenge for Christie is that there aren't 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:19.680 enough of them to win him the nomination. 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:22.000 That's what I was just going to have a broader appeal. Yeah, 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:23.080 I was just going to ask you if there are 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:26.000 enough of those to actually help him get a nomination. 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.080 I mean, in an alternate universe, certainly, you know that 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:33.400 could work. So, Josh, what about Chris Christy today? Who 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:36.719 is he and sort of how did he recover from 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:39.800 what happened at the end of his term with the 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.640 old you know, time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee. 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:45.159 Thanks, exactly what I mean. Look, let's remember, you know, 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:47.839 Christy at one point was the rising star of the 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:51.159 Republican Party before Donald Trump came along. Popular blue state 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:54.760 governor could have run for president against Obama in twenty twelve, 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:56.919 chose to wait and then wound up in trouble with 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:59.440 the George Washington Bridge scale that tarnished the end of 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.400 his president But he jumped in anyway in twenty sixteen 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:05.599 and looked like a viable candidate until Trump came along 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:08.279 and kind of stole his shtick as kind of the 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:12.360 confrontational outer borrow you know, poke a finger in your 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:14.599 chest guy. He just did it better and So when 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:16.960 Christy recognized that he wasn't going to be the nominee, 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:19.839 he made a move to become Trump's VP and became 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.039 the first guy to endorse him. And so that shocked 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:24.679 a lot of people because at the time, it's. 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:27.280 Like, can I just say, it's like watching the Bachelorette, 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.960 and you know, it's that bachelorette that just doesn't have 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:33.920 a chance, but like just going for the rose, it 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:34.719 was like pain. 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.560 And instead it went to Mike Pence, and he wound 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:43.120 up kind of getting humiliated. He got fired from Trump's transition, 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:46.440 and I think his reputation was really kind of in tatters, 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:48.960 you know, as the Trump administration went off the rails, 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:52.680 a lot of people, Republicans and Democrats, I think, scorned 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:56.240 Christie for having enabled Trump. And so one of the 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:57.839 things that I think is going on, and I get 0:05:57.839 --> 0:05:59.400 at this and the piece and I talked to Christie 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.280 about it, is is he really running for the Republican nomination? 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:04.599 Does he really think he can be Trump? Or is 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.279 he really aiming here for personal redemption? Because if he 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.440 does manage to stop Trump, even if he himself is 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:13.280 not the nominee, I think a lot of people will 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.520 be very thankful and that he'll in a sense redeem 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:20.960 himself in a tone for how he helped Donald Trump 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:21.599 seven years ago. 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:22.920 Well, don't you feel like Josh? 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.200 And that's where I put a note as I read 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:28.160 through your story, you know, is impact if he doesn't 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.279 get the nomination and you get to it? Is it 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.200 just the point that this is someone who actually is 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:35.680 standing up and kind of poking the bear and saying, 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:37.760 wait a minute, you did this, you did that? You know, 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:40.120 is this what we want for a president? So you know, 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.680 is that how he redeems himself Ultimately? Then is that 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.960 going to be useful politically? Will it change the minds 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:47.560 of voters? 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:48.200 Well? 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.480 I think what he's trying to do there is essentially 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:53.280 bait Trump into attacking him. Like, the challenge for all 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.479 of these candidates is they need to emerge as the 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.359 main anti Trump alternative. For a while, it looked like 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:01.320 that was going to be De Santis, but De Santus 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:03.960 is now in a tailspin. So if Christy, you know, 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:05.640 his hope was to get on a debate stage with 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.960 Trump and kind of go mono amano and beat him 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:12.520 up and hope that Republicans recognize that Hey, you know, 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.200 there's a new sheriff in town. Christy is also this 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.280 tough guy. Maybe we should switch our allegiance to him. Well, 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:20.760 he doesn't have that option now, and Chris Christy can 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:22.600 still stand out from the rest of the pack by 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:25.640 going after Trump. I think the question is will Republican 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:29.000 voters follow him there? And the early polling evidence is 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:31.800 that they won't. And I sat down with Christy and 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.880 asked him about that, and he said, essentially, listen, I 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:36.720 know none of you guys in the media and none 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.240 of polsters believe that I'm going to beat Trump. But 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:41.120 when I do, when I go out there and beat 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:44.120 him up in the debates and his own voters see that, 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:46.240 they're going to think to themselves. And this is a 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.400 quote from Chris Christie to me, Okay, he did that 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:51.280 to Trump, what in God's name will we do to 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:53.640 Joe Biden? And at that point, you know, Christy is 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.800 hoping that they'll switch their allegiance. That is the theory. 0:07:56.880 --> 0:07:59.600 We don't have a lot of evidence yet to suggest 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:02.160 that it's going to pan out that way, but I 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:04.680 would point out that there's a new Republican poll out 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:08.480 and sure enough, Chris Christi has leap frogs Ron Desantas 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.160 and now stands in second place behind Donald Trump. So 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.160 still within the realm of possibility. A lot of it 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:15.960 is going to depend on how Christy does. 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:16.320 In the debate. 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:18.560 So it could, it could happen. But let's say it 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:22.960 doesn't happen, and let's say that former President Trump is 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:28.040 once again for a third time Republican nominee Trump. What 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.880 happens to Chris Christy then? Does he do what so 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:35.000 many other never Trumpers did, and and and gather around 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:39.600 and say, well, I guess he is the Republican nominee 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:41.960 and we'd rather see him as president than Joe Biden. 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:45.600 You know, it's it's it's a great question, and it's 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:47.640 one that Christy ducks by saying he doesn't think that 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:51.360 that's going to happen, but it's it's gonna It's really 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:53.680 tough to go from being anti Trump to pro Trump, 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:55.439 to anti Trump to back to pro trup. You know, 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:56.880 at some point, you know, you have to put on 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:00.640 a neck brace from all that whiplash. I think what 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:03.240 Christy is really hoping for that no matter how things 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:07.400 turned out, that he's redeemed himself in the eyes of 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:09.800 the political world to an extent, simply by fighting the 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:12.240 good fight that the other Republican candidates don't seem to 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:14.800 be willing to and trying to stop Donald Trump. Now, 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.880 that might not get him an important political job, but look, hey, 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.320 maybe in four years if the Trump era passes, you know, 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.040 maybe if the party sours on Trump and nominate somebody 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:27.600 else a Ron de Santas, Tim Scott, you know, Christy 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.880 will come to look like a like a brave guy, 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:33.360 like a prophet, and maybe find a role for himself 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.920 in politics. Is perhaps an attorney general or maybe you know, 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:39.080 four years from now, eight years ago, he's only sixty 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:43.280 years old, which is like adolescents in national politics. He 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.840 could theoretically run for president in a future cycle where 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.600 the MAGA vote isn't as powerful and still have a chance. 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:51.720 So I think the main thing, what is. 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:56.480 This world you describe, Josh, Well, it's on a far off, 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:57.640 on a distant plankay. 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:00.000 You know, people have been predicting for years and years 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.240 that eventually Trump's hold on the Republican Party would break. 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.120 But look, if he loses the election in twenty twenty 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:08.320 four to Joe Biden. I think that's going to go 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.000 a long way towards severing the party's connection to Trump. 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:13.440 And if he wins, he can only serve one term. 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:15.280 So there is the light at the end of the 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:19.880 tunnel for non Trump Republicans, just in the sense that, like, 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.920 eventually Trump can't be the president anymore and somebody else 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:25.320 is going to kind of get that role. So I 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:28.160 think Christy is also acting with an eye toward what 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:30.520 that future might look like. But of course he's banking 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:32.680 on the fact that we'll have to look very, very 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:34.880 different than our Republican president does. Today. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.719 That was Bloomberg business Week National correspondent Josh Green. You 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:39.760 can hear more from him and his outlook for the 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:42.559 Republican presidential field on our podcast feed Coming. 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:44.360 Up, we examined the cost of climate change and why 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.679 it affects way more businesses. 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:46.959 Than you might think. 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:49.720 Economist Claudia sam helps break down the data when we 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:53.239 come back. You're listening to Bloomberg business Week. This is Bloomberg. 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:57.560 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:01.120 live weekday afternoons from three to sixty darn Listen. 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:02.200 On Bloomberg dot com. 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:05.680 The iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or watch 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:07.800 us live on YouTube. 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:11.040 Okay, yes, we focused on Jackson Hole and Jay Powell 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.240 and all the global central bankers in attendance at the 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.360 Kansas City Fed's annual gathering. We'll talk of fly fishing 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:18.840 as well. You can read all about it though on 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:21.560 the Bloomberg and also at Bloomberg dot com. And yet, 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:24.920 what we keep thinking a lot about is climate change. 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:29.079 The impact, the lives lost, the costs, the productivity hits. 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:32.959 Yeah, another week with extreme weather and incredibly distressing headlines. 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:36.679 The aftermath of Tropical Storm Hillary pummeling California and other 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:39.640 parts of the Western US. Overall, Carroll the nation is 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.400 on track to experience its worst year for smoke exposure 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:46.079 in decades, this after wildfires in Canada sent toxic plumes 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.880 drifting across the border to the Midwest and the East 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:52.040 Coast earlier this summer. And then, of course there's Maui, 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:55.480 where fires have pushed the official death toll into triple digits, 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:58.280 with more than a thousand people still unaccounted for. 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:00.559 And just remember climate change, it's a glo global thing. 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:04.120 Fires and floods are tragedies. Of course, one of our 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.079 next gas rights that we also shouldn't discount the economic 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:10.480 damage caused by higher temperatures. Claudia sam is the founder 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:14.280 of Some Consulting, a former fed economist, She's also the 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.040 creator of the Psalm Rule of recession indicator, and she 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:18.439 writes for Bloomberg Opinion. 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:21.760 Claudia's latest article on the terminal discusses how heat drags 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:24.960 on economic productivity. She and Bloomberg Opinion editor and climate 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.160 columnists Mark Gonglof joined us with more. 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:32.520 There's a human tragedy absolutely thinking about the economic cost. 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:36.559 It really brings it to all of us, right, and 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:41.559 the way in which high heats, rising temperatures one channel, 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.680 an important channel to affect the US economy is through 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:48.200 reductions in labor productivity. I mean it's a lot hard 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:51.280 when it's high heat. It's a lot harder. 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:51.720 To do the work. 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:55.559 And we have twenty percent of occupations in the United 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:59.440 States have heat exposure. It's not just agricultural workers, it's 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:04.360 also to construction workers. So there's a wide group of 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:08.480 people that are affected by the high heat and it 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:09.880 shows up in the economy. 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:12.839 Yeah, it's you know, as we talk about the costs, 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.720 and first and foremost the loss of human life and 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:20.679 the devastation obviously front and center. But yeah, we have 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.240 to start looking at this increasingly. We talk about it 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:25.440 a lot. I feel like have for years and years, 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:27.480 but man, I feel like we're paying the piper now, 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:29.880 We're really getting some real numbers in terms of all 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:33.360 this costs. I want to go to you, Mark because 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:38.440 as every day there is news stuff that is related 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:43.760 to our climate, vultile weather patterns and so on. When 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:47.440 you hear Claudia speak, how I mean this is just 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:50.880 going to continue, correct because at this point we can't 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:52.319 really slow the train, if you. 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:56.040 Will, well, we could slow the train, but only by 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.640 making some drastic choices, by making some different choices about 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:03.679 how we produce energy. And you know, her great column 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.080 reminded me. And it's just it's one piece of a 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:08.640 thing that I've kind of been going on about for 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:10.160 a while now, which is, you know, we talk a 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.960 lot about the costs of the clean energy transition. You know, 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:16.000 we got to it costs a lot of money to 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:20.560 upgrade our infrastructure, to put in charging stations, to build 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.800 out solar and wind. Although it's much cheaper than book 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:27.360 building a coal plant, it did, you know, But still 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.160 people complain about the costs and the cost will be high. 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.360 But to me, I think we need to think of 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:37.840 them as investments because the costs of not doing that 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:40.480 are so great, And I think Claudia, I was just 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:43.680 doing some very rough math. Claudia as the economist, I 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.080 am not. But you know, if by twenty fifty we 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.120 could be losing three hundred billion a year from heat 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:53.200 related productivity and losses alone in the US economy, and 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:56.480 then you get into other economies and then all the 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:59.160 other effects that we're seeing, and again you just you 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:03.760 just ran through the game of all the climate disasters 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.360 we're seeing in like the past couple of months. Uh, 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.280 those are all extremely costly, and they lead to long 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:12.200 term health costs too, and that we haven't even begun 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:14.320 to really tally up. And so the cost of not 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.760 doing anything or much greater than the cost of doing 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:17.480 something about this. 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.600 Well, Claudia, talk a little bit about that, because you know, 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:25.080 and perhaps the idea that you know, when we talk 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:29.880 about costs, we don't associate what Mark is talking about, right, 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.680 We don't associate the cost that you write about. When 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:35.280 people talk about costs. They think about how much a 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:39.400 cost to actually do things rather than you know, subtractive costs. Right, 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:43.400 how much how much these disasters remove and take away 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.920 from from productivity from a behavioral perspective, How do we 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:49.080 shift the conversation to actually do this in a way 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:50.400 that's you know, really productive. 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:53.080 It's hard. 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.200 I mean, the one of the things I talk about 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:59.440 in the piece is the human costs, the economic costs. 0:15:59.480 --> 0:15:59.960 They all. 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:06.600 Our most for lower income workers, communities that have you know, 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:10.320 their housing isn't such that it makes it comfortable when 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:13.880 the temperature is high, and so you have to you 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:17.000 have to recognize we have a problem now. 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:17.840 Right. 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.600 You can disagree about how much happens in the future 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:23.760 with climate change impacts, how much we can adapt, and 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:29.160 yet right now we are losing productivity because we're not 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.520 dealing with these high temperatures. And frankly, there are only 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:35.920 there are very few attempts to even try to you 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:40.520 try to locally mitigate some of the effects on workers, 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:42.760 and we're not even doing a good job at that. 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:44.960 What's the turning point? 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:47.600 I guess, like I'm going to be really obnoxious, But 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:49.520 is it when the gardener doesn't show up because it's 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:50.880 so hot and they can't work in this. 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:52.400 You know, what is it that. 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:57.680 Makes mark people maybe pay more attention. We've had conversations, 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.600 We've start to have more conversations with you about this. 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:01.920 You know, climate. 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:05.720 Change, the volatility not a new thing, but I keep wondering. 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:07.800 I always thought, okay, wait, if you can make money 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:11.280 off of this, ultimately people will sit up and take notice. 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:16.119 What is it that ultimately makes people think more about 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:18.440 the impact, the financial impact and do. 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:19.000 The right thing. 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.240 I think they are starting human impact? Yeah, well, the 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.720 human impact is one thing. And there was a study 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.360 out that suggested that people are more likely to take 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:33.479 action when they're angry. So that's one thing. Maybe seeing people, 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.400 maybe having your home destroyed and seeing people you love 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:39.320 fall ill to this stuff will make you angry. But 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:44.399 in terms of you know what we can do right now? 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:47.359 There is there are things we can do right now 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.359 to protect workers. And we are starting to talk about 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:54.760 this more because we are seeing workers dying from extreme heat. 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:58.760 And OSHA was supposed to. President Biden told OSHA two 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:02.040 years ago to set some federal safety standards for workers, 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.360 and they still haven't done it, And I do they 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.760 are they They're getting another push right now because this 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:11.639 summer has been so extreme, and so we are starting 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:15.680 to think about it, we are starting to talk about it. Unfortunately, though, 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:17.720 it is a case where we just we seem to 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.480 need to be smacked in the face with it to 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:27.360 be somewhat optimistic. I think just this one disaster after 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.840 another that we're seeing that that will be costly. I mean, 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:34.040 we're seeing more billion dollar disasters coming than than ever before. 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:36.320 FEMA is about to run out of money and we're 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:38.920 not even in the height of hurricane season yet, which 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.399 is a scary thing. It's got enough money to cover Maui, 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.200 but what would and it's going to have to spend 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:47.200 a bunch more money to cover the flooding in California, 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:50.639 and then we still haven't even started a hurricane season 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:52.840 really yet. We could hope for a break there, we 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:55.600 could hope for an into these disasters, but we've had 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:58.760 three or four months of them steadily, and those are 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:00.679 the kind of things that might really start to get 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:05.040 attention when the money's run out and disasters are piling up. 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:05.560 Right. 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:09.320 Well, we hope we can continue this conversation with you both, 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:12.680 because really smart voices and perspectives on this. Mark Gungloff, 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:15.160 editor of Bloomberg Opinion on Zoom in New York City 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:18.400 at Clodia some founder of some consulting, Bloomberg Opinion columnist 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:21.520 on Zoom from DC. You know it reminds me, you know, 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:25.000 there's a story on the Bloomberg bond. Investors can't rely 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:26.760 on credit ratings to give them a fair assessment of 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:28.639 the climate risks they're exposed to and should brace for 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:29.160 trouble ahead. 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:29.800 That's according to. 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:32.800 The Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis. 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:34.800 So it's real, folks. 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:37.760 Still head On Bloomberg BusinessWeek, our magazine team spotlights the 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:41.800 prescription benefit managers or PBMs that many of us rely on, 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:45.399