1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,799 Speaker 1: there's Chuck and Jerry's here for Dave. So it's a 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: short stuff, and we're talking about what you might know 4 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: is peace pipes, but as it turns out, that's not 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: the right word for it at all. So although we'll 6 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: probably accidentally call it peace pipes a bunch of times, 7 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: they're really called sacred or ceremonial pipes. 8 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 2: That's right. That whole notion of passing the peace pipe 9 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 2: something that American settlers and soldiers saw and they thought like, hey, 10 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 2: they're smoking that thing during a treaty signing, so that 11 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: must be a peace pipe. And while it's true that 12 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 2: they might have smoked those during treaty signings, it turns 13 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 2: out they smoke them a lot, so it's a bit 14 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 2: of a misnomer. 15 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. They come up in all sorts of different parts 16 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: of Native American culture. Something I thought was really interesting 17 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: is that I could not find a mention of any 18 00:00:55,200 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: North American tribe that doesn't use ceremonial pipes. Yeah, and 19 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: so like they found old ones from Florida up to 20 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: the Midwest. I think they found it in the Hopewell 21 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: culture in Ohio from the southwest up to the Pacific northwest, 22 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: like all over they use peace pipes, which tells you like, 23 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: this is a really old tradition and it predates some 24 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: of the tribes that eventually kind of grew out of 25 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: other tribes that were older. 26 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And again they just call them pipes. 27 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 2: I think there's a broader term that you can use, 28 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 2: if you want to get more specific, called a calumet. 29 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: And apparently that's from the French word. Would that be 30 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 2: shadow may like Timothy, Yeah, all right, and that means 31 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 2: read or flute, and Timothy shallo may. He's like a 32 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 2: little flutie read himself, he really is. 33 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: I wonder if that's the stage name. 34 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 2: Now maybe, And you know, depending on the tribe and 35 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: the culture, they each have their own name for it, 36 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 2: perhaps in their own language, and generally they take them 37 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 2: out during some kind of ceremony, maybe a prayer, maybe 38 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 2: a treaty signing thing, maybe just a party or maybe 39 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 2: a monarchy situation. 40 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I forgot about that. 41 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 2: But it is a sort of a physical representation of 42 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 2: a connection to God or maybe the smoke flowing out 43 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 2: in all directions to nature and connecting in that way. 44 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I also saw what it means specifically definitely depends 45 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,679 Speaker 1: on the tribe. They have different meanings for it, even 46 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: though it's generally used for some sort of prayer solemn occasion, 47 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: like you were saying. One explanation I saw is that 48 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: the plants that are smoked in there, it's not always tobacco, 49 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 1: it's never marijuana, but and it can be a combination 50 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: of a bunch of different plants. Those plants have roots 51 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: in the earth, but their smoke travels up to the heavens, 52 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: to the spirit world, and they carry the person's prayer 53 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,679 Speaker 1: with them. So it's very they're very sacred and solemn 54 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,799 Speaker 1: occasion when they're smoking a ceremonial pipe, even though exactly 55 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: what they believe about it is it varies. 56 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And where they come from berries, I 57 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 2: think the Lakota, you know, the ideas that they were 58 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 2: given it by the white buffalo calf woman and it 59 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 2: was used for prayer in their culture generally, and that's 60 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 2: why the white buffalo calf is very much a sacred 61 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 2: thing to the Lakota. 62 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 1: Still, yeah, the Lakota call there's the chinoonpa, which is 63 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: a cool word to say, Yeah, And one other thing 64 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: about any ceremonial pipe is there's like different parts represent 65 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: different things, but they come in pieces. They're not actually 66 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: just one single piece. Especially with the Dakota and the Lakota, 67 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: both sue they are meant to stay apart, and when 68 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: they're put together, that indicates a ceremony or a prayer 69 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: session is beginning. You don't keep like if you're storing it, 70 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: or say, if you're a museum who gets your hands 71 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: on one of these and you're displaying it, you do 72 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: not show them put together. They're just kind of like 73 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: exploded on display, separated the different parts. 74 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 2: They should call them pieces pipes. 75 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: Very nice? Should we take a pipe? Very nice? Yeah? 76 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: I gotta let that gel with me from all right. 77 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 2: We'll be right back after that bad pun, right after this. 78 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: So one of the other things that a lot of 79 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: ceremonial pipes have in common in North America is that 80 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: they are made from a spe zip kind of rock. 81 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: And there's different variations on this kind of rock, but 82 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: they're all generally called pipestone. 83 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we've talked about the pieces. There's that 84 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: wooden stem and then you've got your bowl. It's like 85 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 2: an L shape bowl or a T shaped bowl, and 86 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: that is that pipestone. There are different colors of pipestone, 87 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 2: so they're often very pretty pipes and pretty bowls. But 88 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 2: there's one apparently that's a little more revered, and that's 89 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 2: the red pipestone from Pipestone National Monument, which is southwest Minnesota, 90 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 2: and apparently it's that particular pipestone is considered sacred by 91 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 2: a lot of indigenous tribes. 92 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, like they'll come from all over North America to 93 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: get the red pipestone is a kind of catlanite, which 94 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: is a stone made from clay, and it's actually fairly 95 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: easy to work with. But to get to it at 96 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: Pipestone National Monument, number one, you have to get a permit. 97 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: Number two, you can't get a permit unless you're enrolled 98 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: in a North American tribe. And then number three, it's 99 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: going to take you a while to get there because 100 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: the red pipestone at that park only exists underneath a 101 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: thick quartz layer and you're only allowed to use hand 102 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: tools like pick axes, chisels, sledgehammers to get to it, 103 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: and the park rangers recommend expecting to do at least 104 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: a weekend's worth of work with multiple other people, but 105 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: that some people end up having to get an annual 106 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: pass because they have to just keep coming back and 107 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: coming back and to finally get to it. And can 108 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: you imagine if you dedicated months to this and you 109 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: came back for that last time, you're like, this is 110 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: the one, and to find somebody else had just used 111 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: the rest of your work, dug through it and got 112 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: to the red pipestone you had to start over. 113 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought you were going to say you finally 114 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 2: make that beautiful bowl out of the pipestone, and then 115 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 2: your friend Gary knocks it off the kitchen counter. 116 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: Either way, either way, it was probably Gary who used 117 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: your hole in the first place too, So either way 118 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: Gary's to blame. 119 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 2: Gary notorious hole user. So it's not always up pipestone. 120 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 2: Sometimes it's limestone. Sometimes it's bone or pottery or shale, 121 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 2: but that pipestone is which are really after The stems 122 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 2: are generally wood, maybe alder or ash, and they're usually decorative, 123 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 2: not always, because like we said, there are all different 124 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 2: kinds of pipes, some for different ceremonies, some just personal pipes. 125 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 2: A lot of times I'll have feathers and beadwork. Some 126 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,119 Speaker 2: are just plain though, and like you mentioned, they smoke 127 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 2: of a variety of things, not always tobacco. Sometimes it's 128 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 2: dried bark of maybe a red oyster dog wood. Maybe 129 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: it's a ground shrub if you're out on the prairie, 130 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 2: And like you mentioned, it's never marijuana. That is just 131 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 2: some dumb joke made by white people at some point, 132 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: probably in a cartoon strip or something. 133 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: So that, yeah, in our crumb strip. Yeah, maybe Fritz 134 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: the cat. So that that ground shrub from the prairie 135 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: you mentioned is called kinnikinnick and it's spelled like it sounds. 136 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: It's also called bearberry, but actually both of them are 137 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: really fun to say as well. That's a sacred plant, 138 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: and then the tobacco that they'll smoke is also considered sacred. 139 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: But it's not that standard Virginia tobacco strain. It's an 140 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: older indigenous strain to the United States that's much more potent, 141 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: just stronger tobacco. So I'm sure in a pinch you 142 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: could use the Virginia kind, but there's apparently a preferred kind. 143 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 2: That's not that aka the good stuff. 144 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. So I also said that you're not supposed 145 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: to keep the pipe stored put together. In addition to 146 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: the stem and the bowl, there are there's also often 147 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: a mouthpiece too, So these three separate parts are brought 148 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: together to begin a ceremony. It might be in a 149 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: sweat lodge like you said, it might be as part 150 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: of a wedding. There's all sorts of different times to 151 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: use it. But in some Native American cultures they were 152 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: used to basically seal a peace treaty between warring nations. 153 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: And there was a process for doing this, and there 154 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: would be a medicine man involved, and then you would 155 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: bring together the chiefs of the two warring tribes. Yeah, 156 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: and the cool thing about it is the medicine man 157 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: and each of the warring chiefs brings a piece of 158 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: the pipe, the medicine man puts it together, and then 159 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: it's kind of like, all right, we're all connected again. 160 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great. I love what it symbolizes. And it's 161 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 2: something that's not you know, something still happening. And I mean, 162 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,319 Speaker 2: I think this is from HowStuffWorks dot Com. They interviewed 163 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 2: I think a woman from the Lakota maybe, and she's like, 164 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 2: you know, this stuff is not past tense, like we 165 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 2: still have our culture and we still do these things. 166 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. Her name's Gabriel Drapeau and she's with the yank 167 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: tan Sioux tribe of South Dakota. 168 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 2: Oh okay, Well, she just makes a point like this 169 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 2: stuff is not in the past tense, like we still 170 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 2: I think a lot of people look at it that 171 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 2: way as like, oh, they used to smoke these ceremonial pipes. 172 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 2: And she's like, no, we still do this. We still 173 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 2: have our culture and it's still sacred to us. 174 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. Pretty cool man. I love it. Well, I guess 175 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: short stuff is out everybody. 176 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 177 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 2: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 178 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.