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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: A production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 3: my name is Noah.

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Speaker 2: They call me Bed. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 2: super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 2: are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff

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Speaker 2: they don't want you to know. A little bit of

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Speaker 2: a Christmas freestyle. He sees you when you're sleeping, he

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Speaker 2: knows when you're awake, he knows if you've been bad

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Speaker 2: or good. It's a new survey lent state. Hey, oh bah,

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Speaker 2: right do we pay for that? So it is beginning

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Speaker 2: to look a lot like Christmas. And we have a

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Speaker 2: special spoiler filled episode just for you, fellow conspiracy realists.

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Speaker 2: We were talking about this off air for quite some time.

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Speaker 2: Something strange happened over recent years. Right, and we've all

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Speaker 2: heard of Santa Claus of Rudolph and the Reindeer at all,

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Speaker 2: But around the United States and around the world, numerous

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Speaker 2: children have been introduced to a new character. You can

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Speaker 2: see one of them sitting there running the drums for Matt.

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Speaker 4: No man, leggs, don't hit the pedals.

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Speaker 3: He's the FCCS special Elf. We're going to talk about.

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Speaker 4: Can he play blast beats?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I swear I hear sounds down here

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Speaker 3: at night though, when I'm trying to get some rest.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, before we jump all the way in, should we

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Speaker 4: do a little like trigger warning for the children out

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Speaker 4: there that might be listening with their parents, though maybe yes,

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Speaker 4: isn't one for them.

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Speaker 2: Let's paint the scene. Yeah, I think, unannounced in homes

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Speaker 2: across the planet, keeping an eye on everybody's behavior in

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Speaker 2: advance of Christmas Day. It's often called the Elf on

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Speaker 2: the shelf, and most people love it. We're going to

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Speaker 2: dive into this because we have a bell to we

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Speaker 2: have a bell to ring, a flag, the wave of

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Speaker 2: bone to pick, and I love what we're setting up.

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Speaker 2: The disclaimer here because yeah, Laker Palnole was saying, this

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Speaker 2: may not be appropriate for all the kiddo conspiracy realists

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Speaker 2: in the crowd.

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Speaker 4: I mean you're gonna find out one way, you know,

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Speaker 4: sooner or later, one way or another, but maybe that's today,

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Speaker 4: and maybe not make it our fault, so the parents

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Speaker 4: don't send us angry emails. But yeah, we're gonna do

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Speaker 4: some Christmas spoilers today.

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Speaker 3: A little bit. The good thing is, guys, this elf

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Speaker 3: thing we're gonna be talking about was introduced twenty years ago,

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Speaker 3: so there could be adults now who had these as children.

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Speaker 2: Listen, right right, this is the story of the elf

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Speaker 2: on the shelf. We'll be right back. Here are the facts,

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Speaker 2: all right. Christmas traditions. Yeah, Christmas celebrates the most famous

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Speaker 2: birthday in human history so far, that of a guy

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Speaker 2: named Jesus Christ. Side note, civilization did get the date wrong.

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Speaker 2: That's another story. Check out our previous episodes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's as they call a bag of badgers, a.

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Speaker 4: Bag of badgers of today's conversation.

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Speaker 2: But to check out that and check out our h

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Speaker 2: our later explorations on our sister show, Ridiculous History about

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Speaker 2: holiday traditions. We can all now agree that Christmas is

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Speaker 2: an ancient holiday with pre Christian roots, commemorated all around

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Speaker 2: the world in all sorts of ways. The celebration, the

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Speaker 2: pitch is the same across time and space. But Thomas

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Speaker 2: Nast invented the modern image of Santa Claus right, and

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Speaker 2: the specific traditions and trappings and Christmas differ from one

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Speaker 2: place to the next, like we have. I think it's

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Speaker 2: fair to say we have some Christmas envy for British friends,

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Speaker 2: probably because the fun hats and the uh what they

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Speaker 2: call Christmas crackers?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the things you break up. I mean, I don't know, man,

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Speaker 4: I'm all about picking and choosing traditions. So if you

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Speaker 4: want to do Christmas UK style in your house, I

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Speaker 4: say go for it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: It's like a little present that breaks. Does it make

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Speaker 4: a noise? Why is it called a cracker? Because it pops,

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Speaker 4: it pops and makes it pops old.

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Speaker 2: Treat and you do it as a team, so it's

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Speaker 2: you're not supposed to just crack the Christmas crackers by yourself. Yes,

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Speaker 2: that's a little bit screwedy.

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Speaker 4: You know what. I was watching a video to Gordon

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Speaker 4: Ramsey showing you how to make a beef Wellington and

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Speaker 4: he referred to it when it came out of the oven.

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Speaker 4: It's just like a glorious Christmas cracker. I don't know

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Speaker 4: what he was talking about. I totally get it now.

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Speaker 4: It just looks it's like a pop with stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good to hear Gordon being happy.

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Speaker 4: It's he likes Christmas, guys.

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Speaker 3: That's before we jump into Christmas too much further. I

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Speaker 3: just wanted to mention this because we got a message

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Speaker 3: from one of our listeners, Alpha Flight, and told us

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Speaker 3: all about the Quebec Winter Carnival. That is not it's

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Speaker 3: not the same thing as Christmas, right, it's not the

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Speaker 3: same type of traditions or anything. But we learned about

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Speaker 3: this guy named, uh, what is his name, Bottom Carnival.

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Speaker 2: He's a party guy. He's a party guy.

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Speaker 3: He's a real party guy. And you can look at

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Speaker 3: videos of their celebrations and it does make you a

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Speaker 3: little jealous that there's something. I know, there's something to that.

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Speaker 3: Maybe we're just a little we've grown up with Christmas

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Speaker 3: as this traditious.

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Speaker 2: It's it's normalized, you know what I mean. The uh,

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Speaker 2: the mistletoe is always greener right a world the way,

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Speaker 2: so uh, we come to these things with some outside ideas.

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Speaker 2: The the party in Quebec is awesome because it's not

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Speaker 2: necessarily Christmas. It's just in the same clindrical parking lot

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Speaker 2: and people always celebrate something at this time of year.

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Speaker 2: You might even see parts of Europe with raucous crampis parades.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: We we talked about crampis in the past, right is it.

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Speaker 3: Do they have the snitch thing where they will they'll

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Speaker 3: slap you with Yeah, some of them got the switch.

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Speaker 2: Harry Potter for sure.

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Speaker 3: Snitches Harry Potter, Sorry, I'm gone.

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Speaker 2: They beat you with.

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Speaker 4: Reeds, as does bel Who's another style on the crampis

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Speaker 4: kind of mill.

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Speaker 3: Aren't there elves in the Harry Potter verse? Two Big

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Speaker 3: Time run their very song center the Dobby Guy.

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Speaker 2: Yes, okay, And we also know a lot about Yule

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Speaker 2: logs and poop logs show.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that kind of like kind of CagA something.

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Speaker 3: Yes, you got to slap the log so it poops

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Speaker 3: for you.

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Speaker 4: And keep it warm and take care of it like

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Speaker 4: a tamagatchi so that it pulls little presents for you.

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Speaker 2: And then we've also got Nativity scenes up the wazoo.

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Speaker 2: You know, for some people they're their favorite diorama every year.

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Speaker 2: We also want to give a personal shout out to

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Speaker 2: everyone who's Christmas traditions involve volunteering or acts of charity.

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Speaker 2: Way to go. Yes, it's a noble thing.

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Speaker 4: Good stuff. And also Shout out to the dudes working

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Speaker 4: on Matt's garage because they are putting in the they're

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Speaker 4: putting in the effort, and I'm here for it.

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Speaker 3: It's one person and his name is Mark.

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Speaker 2: Serious, shout out to you. Mark is Mark with a

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Speaker 2: K or with a C.

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Speaker 3: I believe it has a K. I'm not positive though,

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Speaker 3: I've only said it to you know, we've only said

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Speaker 3: it to each other. Another tradition I was. I had

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Speaker 3: some questions, but I think it might be worth an

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Speaker 3: episode at some point. Sure, I don't know. I didn't

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Speaker 3: know that that was like there was a.

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Speaker 4: Points around the holidays, big money raiser. They're beautiful plants,

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Speaker 4: but I've never fully understood the connection.

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Speaker 2: Oh dude, Oh it's huge. There's a lot of lore.

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Speaker 2: It goes back, and that's what we're talking about. You know,

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Speaker 2: we're talking about lore. We're talking about folklore. We're talking

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Speaker 2: about shared agreement and values. So the Western world, this

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Speaker 2: is not a secret, is becoming increasingly irreligious or downright secular.

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Speaker 2: But even with that, people still love these traditions, massively

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Speaker 2: enjoy them. I mean, they're wholesome, they're fun at the

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Speaker 2: very least, regardless of your opinions of Christmas. At the

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Speaker 2: very least, this is a time to get together and

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Speaker 2: have a hang with your friends, your family, your loved ones.

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Speaker 2: How could anyone disagree with.

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Speaker 4: That, especially when there's guifties nifty gifties involved. Who doesn't

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Speaker 4: love a giving and receiving a nice pressy.

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Speaker 3: This is also the time, guys, of being on your

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Speaker 3: absolute best behavior.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's true. It's also at the end of the year,

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Speaker 4: so it is marks a time of reflection. You know,

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Speaker 4: what am I going to do differently? How am I

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Speaker 4: going to be better? How am I going to prep

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Speaker 4: for the afterlife?

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Speaker 2: And a lot of corporations are asking themselves the same

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Speaker 2: questions that Noel just asked, right, reflecting on the end

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Speaker 2: of the year, the future ahead, what is all the horizon.

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Speaker 3: Numbers?

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Speaker 2: Right exactly? You could argue that, in fact, we are

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Speaker 2: arguing right now. Thanks for tuning in that Christmas is

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Speaker 2: an economic necessity for the United States because every single year,

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Speaker 2: companies and corporations will spend millions of AD dollars selling

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Speaker 2: billions worth of goods, products and services. It is not

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Speaker 2: a conspiracy. It is true. A good holiday sales season

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Speaker 2: can literally save these.

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Speaker 4: Companies he resent. I mean, there are whole companies who

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Speaker 4: bet their entire why that's a horrible way of putting it.

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Speaker 4: You know, they really hang all of their economic successes

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Speaker 4: on that time of year. They hangle mad. Yes, especially

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Speaker 4: like video game companies or companies that are selling stuff

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Speaker 4: that's like exclusively for kids. If they don't make that

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Speaker 4: those Christmas numbers, then their post.

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Speaker 3: Do you think about how closely tied box office numbers

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Speaker 3: were to whatever was occurring right around Christmas, those movies

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Speaker 3: that would come out of that time and the blockbusters

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Speaker 3: they would say they still do today time.

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Speaker 4: It is the coveted release window that's changing a bit,

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Speaker 4: unfortunately with the way streaming has absolutely boned theatrical releases,

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Speaker 4: not to mention as Netflix merger, but that still does

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Speaker 4: hold true. The biggest event based time kind of movies

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Speaker 4: of the year are Christmas Day type releases.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, again, Christmas as an economic necessity similar to war.

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Speaker 2: By the way, outside of the scope of this exploration,

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Speaker 2: but for a lot of families, let's get away from

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Speaker 2: the corporate stuff just for a second. For a lot

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Speaker 2: of families, Christmas is not even that focused on the

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Speaker 2: purported incorrect birthday of Jesus Christ. It's become more like

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Speaker 2: a themed family party. There's an emphasis on gift giving,

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Speaker 2: on connection, and every year this becomes a subject of

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Speaker 2: intense divisive criticism, especially for more devout adherent Christians. C

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Speaker 2: The old War on Christmas trope that used to occur

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Speaker 2: every year. Guys, hang on, my cat hates this part.

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Speaker 2: My cat's very, very involved in the War on Christmas. Lord,

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Speaker 2: So we're gonna give doctor vankin just one second here.

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Speaker 3: I have a serious question for both of you guys.

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Speaker 3: Because you cats, do you one, do you have a

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Speaker 3: tree in your house? Well, because you both have cats,

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Speaker 3: do you have a tree in your house? And have

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Speaker 3: you encountered any issues with cat and tree?

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Speaker 2: Have many trees in this house?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Boy?

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Speaker 2: Me?

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Speaker 4: None this year. I totally pooped the bed and didn't

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Speaker 4: put up any Christmas decorations this year. But in Christmas's past,

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Speaker 4: the out of cattle he likes to climb that bad boy,

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Speaker 4: So maybe that's partly why I was has attention to

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Speaker 4: do it again this year.

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Speaker 2: Carg Yeah, right, that's the one. Shout out to Cadald.

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Speaker 2: So most people, it's fair to argue, are going to

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Speaker 2: have a live and let live attitude. If you are

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Speaker 2: not hurting anyone and you're having a little wholesome party,

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Speaker 2: or you got a tradition, celebrate as you like, or

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Speaker 2: don't celebrate at all, you freaking grinch, you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Every American, whether or not they celebrate the holiday season,

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Speaker 4: is it has to be intimately familiar with the US

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Speaker 4: Christmas traditions, which are clearly the most commercially out there ones. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: the entire world. I think just in terms of like

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Speaker 4: broadness of the way, how how widely they are known,

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Speaker 4: and to how commercialized they have become.

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Speaker 2: The Tree, the carols, the Santa stuff. Marvel Comics embraced

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Speaker 2: Santa Claus way back. Technically, you know, mega level mutant,

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Speaker 2: which is how he's able to travel the world in

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Speaker 2: one night.

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Speaker 4: He's a shape shifter. He's got to be a bit

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Speaker 4: of a shape shifter. How does he get down that chimney?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Well teleportation.

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Speaker 4: What kind of power is does Santa have?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got a lot, and you got to stay

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Speaker 2: on his good side because one of his biggest powers

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Speaker 2: is orwellian omniscians. Did you guys ever hear about regional

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Speaker 2: riffs on us Christmas traditions like the pink pig.

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Speaker 3: You talking about the little roller coaster thing. That's all

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Speaker 3: I know about. Down to the mall near where we

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Speaker 3: worked for a long time in Buckett, Georgia, there's a

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Speaker 3: thing called the pink pig, a mini roller coaster.

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Speaker 4: P pig in any form. What's the pink pig?

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Speaker 2: So the pink pig is this idea that you would,

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Speaker 2: at least the way I encountered it in the southeastern

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Speaker 2: part of the United States is that you would get

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Speaker 2: this candy pink pig and you had to put it

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Speaker 2: in a bag and you had to smack it with

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Speaker 2: a hammer. Check just like I'm sure I'm sure Jesus

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Speaker 2: loves that one.

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Speaker 3: Changers, right, So like a piggy.

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Speaker 2: Bank walk us through.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a metaphorical piggy bank.

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Speaker 2: You're just going, we're updending, Uh, the characters of the

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Speaker 2: money changers. What we're saying is there's so many very

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Speaker 2: specific traditions.

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Speaker 4: You chicken in Japan.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, with the Christmas cake. I'm sad, guys, this

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Speaker 2: is one of the times that I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: be in Japan for Christmas. Uh, But.

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Speaker 4: That's the deal. Yeah, they have a special like packaged

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Speaker 4: meal that you get with all the fixings and it's

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Speaker 4: absolutely enormous over there.

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Speaker 2: With a Christmas cake, you get to order it months

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Speaker 2: in advance. Every and everybody has again these traditions, like

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Speaker 2: have you guys ever played white Elephant? Is that a

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Speaker 2: tradition in your family?

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Speaker 4: But again, it sort of has to do with giving

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Speaker 4: sort of corny gifts or doing a bit of a

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Speaker 4: of gifts.

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Speaker 2: House rules differing can become quite competitive. Typically you'll have

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Speaker 2: some sort of price limit, like in the US. It

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Speaker 2: will often be less than twenty bucks or less than

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Speaker 2: ten bucks. You can't spend any more than that. And

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Speaker 2: then everybody gets together, you draw numbers to determine the

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Speaker 2: order of who gets to choose a gift win uh,

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Speaker 2: and you learn a lot about your family.

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Speaker 4: You can give it away, you can trade, you can

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Speaker 4: compel someone to force a trade.

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Speaker 2: Basically times without I just don't remember. Yeah, it's because okay,

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Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I'm so excited. I love doing this

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Speaker 2: with So to your question, you could tell that Matt

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Speaker 2: and I are, but we've got that seven league stare

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Speaker 2: like veterans of white Elephant Christmas.

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Speaker 3: You got to be on your game. You got to

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Speaker 3: be on top of it. Okay, there's so much strategy involved.

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Speaker 2: There is so much strategy. You cannot choose your number,

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Speaker 2: but you can leverage it so you can. For instance,

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Speaker 2: let's say there are twelve of you and you pull

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Speaker 2: the best number, which is what or you pull the

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Speaker 2: second best number, which is twelve. You can instead of

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Speaker 2: choosing a new present, you can force somebody else to

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Speaker 2: give you their open present. It.

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Speaker 4: If someone gets a real good one and they're out

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Speaker 4: of the rotation, you can literally deprive them of that delightful.

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Speaker 3: That's why the price limit is so important. But every

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Speaker 3: once in a while in my friend group, somebody would

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Speaker 3: throw it in, like an extra twenty dollars on whatever their

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Speaker 3: gift was, like it's against the rules. But then when

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Speaker 3: that gift would get opened, oh my god, it was

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Speaker 3: a bloodbath.

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Speaker 4: Well, there was a lead a thing in the office

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Speaker 4: where Michael Scott gets an iPod just to absolutely screw

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Speaker 4: everybody over. Of course, he ultimately gets the iPod that

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Speaker 4: he bought, you know, because he's a bit of a jerk. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Because what we're saying here is that economic intent and

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Speaker 2: capitalism are very tied into American Christmas. I mean this also,

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Speaker 2: this also affects non Christian families. You know, shout out

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Speaker 2: to everybody who has the tradition of getting Chinese food

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Speaker 2: on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day because historically it's the

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Speaker 2: only restaurant that's open. We love that that is an

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Speaker 2: American tradition. We accept. These celebrations seem constant. Generations of

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Speaker 2: families do more or less the same thing. Y're in

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Speaker 2: and year out. However, this constancy is an illusion. It

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Speaker 2: is not as ironclad as it appears, which leads us

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Speaker 2: to one of the newest breakout characters, Dylan, if we

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Speaker 2: could get some kind of holiday drum roll perfect to

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Speaker 2: stage it strolls, Yeah, yeah, with the day of a Reindeer.

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Speaker 2: It is the newest hottest Christmas character. The Elf on

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Speaker 2: the shelf.

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Speaker 4: The sound of him being pressed to digitated from this magic.

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Speaker 3: Sound of magic.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I saw you, Billy, there's the darkness inside you.

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Speaker 4: That's true.

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Speaker 2: Matt.

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Speaker 4: What's your ELF's name? What's your elf? Buddy? That's the

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Speaker 4: drums Tyrone? We got Tyrone. And then I think our

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Speaker 4: pal Mark.

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Speaker 3: Who's named this elf tyrone?

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Speaker 4: Okay, we got Tyrone. You got to call him. We

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Speaker 4: have another elf in the picture.

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Speaker 2: Mark has an elf named Pizzy. The names are the names,

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Speaker 2: as always in folklore, whole tremendous power. The Elf on

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Speaker 2: the Shelf is popularized by an author named Carol Abersould

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Speaker 2: and her daughter Chonda Bell. In two thousand and five,

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Speaker 2: they wrote an objectively delightful children's book called The Elf

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Speaker 2: on the Shelf a Christmas Tradition. This is based on

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Speaker 2: a real life, family specific tradition that they started back

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Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy four, so not that long ago.

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Speaker 4: So when that book originally came out, was it already

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Speaker 4: pre boxed with the elf? Like? That was like the

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Speaker 4: package deal. You got the book and you got the other.

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Speaker 4: That's how I remember it. When it first hit the scene.

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Speaker 2: When it blew up, they started packaging it with the elf.

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Speaker 2: I think Ridge come with the Elf. Did you guys see.

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Speaker 3: Where the first time it ever debuted was in Marietta, Georgia. Marriyetta,

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Speaker 3: Georgia's a little bookstore there. That is where Elf on

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Speaker 3: the Shelf first came into existence.

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Speaker 4: Do you know the name of the bookstore? That's crazy.

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Speaker 4: I didn't know that. That's like literally in our backyard

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Speaker 4: here in Atlanta.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because this is an Atlanta based endeavor.

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Speaker 4: I don't think we know the name of the bookstore,

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Speaker 4: but that's totally okay.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, unfortunately I don't know. But it was only in

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Speaker 3: two thousand and five, right, so not that long ago.

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Speaker 3: Surely the info was out there. I just couldn't when

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Speaker 3: I was doing my search for or once I've heard Marietta,

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Speaker 3: because again that's near us. But now you could find it.

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Speaker 2: Well, we do know we can find the lore. All right.

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Speaker 2: Here's the story. Here's what we were setting up with

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Speaker 2: names having power. According to the legend, each child has

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Speaker 2: an elf specifically assigned to them by none other than

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Speaker 2: the uber Elf himself, Santa Claus. This elf arrives on

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Speaker 2: Thanksgiving and it monitors children's activity in advance of Christmas.

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Speaker 2: This is an old thing. You know, there's that great

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Speaker 2: poem just before Christmas. I'm good as I can be.

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Speaker 2: This kind of thing if you're a kid. The logic

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Speaker 2: makes sense because your first question about Santa is, how

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Speaker 2: can this guy actually keep an eye on hundreds and

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Speaker 2: hundreds of millions of children around the world constantly?

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Speaker 4: Well, also, how brilliant from the economic side of things,

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Speaker 4: to introduce a new commercialized holiday tradition right on Thanksgiving,

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Speaker 4: like we already know the window for Christmas gap you know,

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Speaker 4: its stores seems to get sooner and sooner and sooner,

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Speaker 4: like almost like immediately after Halloween.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes, yeah, save Halloween, everybody. But this has, like we

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Speaker 2: were saying, the book now comes packaged with a toy elf.

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Speaker 2: And when you get this as a family, you're encouraged

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Speaker 2: to name it, carefully, place it, and treat it as

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Speaker 2: though it is alive and genuinely watching. And you can

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Speaker 2: never touch it.

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Speaker 4: No, no, no touching, touching, no touching. And the name

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Speaker 4: is what gives it its power. I believe another friend

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Speaker 4: of ours who's hanging with us, Jordan, said he didn't

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Speaker 4: name his elf on the shelf, so it's powerless. Sorry

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Speaker 4: to tell you, Jordan, it's completely.

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Speaker 1: You get a name.

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Speaker 2: You got two Jordan, you get a name too, unless

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Speaker 2: you suggesting maybe you one to have your spouse picked

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Speaker 2: the other just to keep things.

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Speaker 3: But it's a big deal.

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Speaker 4: It's part of the magic is don't touch it, and

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Speaker 4: you gotta give it a unique name.

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Speaker 3: Guys. I've got a quick update here. Yeah, uh, the

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Speaker 3: first book signing for the Elf on the Shelf that

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Speaker 3: occurred at the Marietta Museum of History. So it was

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Speaker 3: not the first place of the elf appeared. It was

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Speaker 3: where the book was signed.

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Speaker 2: That. Yeah, and they have books at the gift store

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Speaker 2: and at the gift shop, and that is a cool museum.

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Speaker 2: But there is so much more to the story of

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Speaker 2: the Elf on the Shelf. We do have some missiletoe

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Speaker 2: to kiss, we have a bell to ring, a flag

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Speaker 2: to wave, you see, Folks, some people believe this wholesome

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Speaker 2: elf is not just a cute spin on an ancient

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Speaker 2: holiday concept. Instead, they argue it is a normalization of

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Speaker 2: the surveillance state. And that's where it gets icy and

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Speaker 2: maybe that's our at break. Here's where it gets crazy.

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Speaker 4: All right.

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Speaker 2: It's weird when you think about it, Like we're saying,

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Speaker 2: according to the tradition, the elf only comes alive once

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Speaker 2: it gets a name, and when it gets the name,

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Speaker 2: it not only becomes sentient and mobile, Yeah, it gains

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Speaker 2: magical abilities.

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Speaker 3: Dude, I always feel like that elf is watching me.

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Speaker 4: It is right, you shoulder man, and like it's so

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Speaker 4: creepy because the thing the parents do to participate in

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Speaker 4: this is move it around every night, which inherently involved

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Speaker 4: touching it. It's only the child that isn't allowed to

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Speaker 4: touch it. But we're going to get into the whole

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Speaker 4: dishonesty of the whole thing. But it's like, that's terrifying

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Speaker 4: if there's a toy that is like in a different

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Speaker 4: position in the morning. It's like in some parents do

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Speaker 4: goofy stuff where it'll be like on the toilet, you know,

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Speaker 4: with like chrsy kiss, you know, and they.

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Speaker 3: My son was kind of freaked out about it at first.

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Speaker 2: It's a freaky thing. It should not be normalized.

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Speaker 4: Voice.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's the idea, right, the the idea. It's a

437
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 2: it's a conspiracy. It's a mystery that children are introduced

438
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 2: to right as players in a great game. Every evening,

439
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,640
Speaker 2: after the kiddos hit the hay, the elf flies back

440
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 2: off via Christmas Magic to the North Pole and snitches

441
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:10,880
Speaker 2: on you to Sata Prime. This influences whether the kid

442
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: ends up on the Nice or Nazi list, which is

443
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 2: constantly being checked. It's no longer being checked twice now

444
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 2: it's being checked every twenty four hours.

445
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's not just bopping around in one night. He's

446
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 4: like going back making his report, then flying back and

447
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 4: then you know, doing a new delightful or terrifying pose.

448
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,959
Speaker 3: And he got Yeah, is the concept that Santa is

449
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 3: no longer watching us sleep, but his elves are, so

450
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 3: he's like outsourced. The implication missions.

451
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 2: The implication is that he's franchised. Surveillance should be accepted

452
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 2: because before the family wakes up, boom, like we were saying,

453
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 2: the ELF's return, you can tell it's been on the road, right,

454
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 2: You could tell it had a long night because it's

455
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 2: in a new spot and it starts a new daily

456
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 2: game of hide and seek? Wake up, find the elf?

457
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: Where is he? He definitely is not where he was

458
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 2: or where they were last night. And this is this

459
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:12,479
Speaker 2: reminds me too of a terrifying thing. Right, Hide and seek,

460
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 2: the children's game, you know, that's a that's an old

461
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 2: game too. It's an evolutionary necessity because of when towns

462
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,959
Speaker 2: we get raided to teach children how to hide effectively.

463
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 4: It's still a good good ability these days.

464
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, heck yeah, my kids are masters.

465
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 2: They're so yeah. My dad's a master too. We started

466
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 2: playing when I was around three, and the guy's still winning.

467
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 3: Ok Uh, he's sure.

468
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 2: Uh so is Colonel Kurtz. Kids are told not to

469
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 2: touch the elf. We we tease that at the top,

470
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 2: Why can't you touch the elf? Because if you do so,

471
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 2: you're going to compromise or taint the Christmas magic. So

472
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 2: if you touch the elf as a kid, if you try,

473
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 2: even with the best of intentions, you try to help

474
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 2: the elf hide, then you've messed up Christmas.

475
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 3: Christmas, So it's watching you, right. But the other thing

476
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 3: with the elf is that as a kid, you're encouraged

477
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 3: to like talk to the thing and like share what

478
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 3: you're feeling, maybe what we want confess, like procession relations therapy, and.

479
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 2: Like talking to a dancer at an adult club. You know,

480
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 2: im no touching, but share your soul.

481
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 3: And not all kids go for that part, right, and

482
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 3: and a lot for a lot of kids. The the

483
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 3: hide and seek part of it is really like the

484
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 3: exciting and fun thing.

485
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 2: But but well, you have.

486
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 3: Some kids take it so seriously, and you can find

487
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 3: videos online of let's say a bunch of siblings are

488
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 3: together and one of the children touched the elf, which

489
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 3: which causes such great anxiety and fear in these kids

490
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 3: because they believe in it so deeply. It does make

491
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 3: you wonder, and I think that's why we're really interested

492
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 3: in the deeper parts. Don't worry about the bang. I

493
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 3: think san is here early, it's smart, it's mark, but

494
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 3: there's there's something to the psychology of this and the

495
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 3: way it can potentially affect a child in the moments.

496
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 2: That is happening, but also maybe in the future really

497
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 2: cognitive development, which we have to get to in a second,

498
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 2: we sure will.

499
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 4: Speaking of the psychology of it too, and the belief aspects.

500
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 4: Do y'all have a sense of what the modern day

501
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 4: cutoff is for Santa Claus belief as a parent with

502
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 4: a young kid.

503
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 2: Anybody I've been kicked Yeah, I'm anybody. I've been kicked

504
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 2: off a couple of radio shows for that exact question.

505
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:51,959
Speaker 4: If you're not going to kick you off, spill it.

506
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 2: I can't be kicked off.

507
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 3: This is our show. If you're allowed to say yeah, thanks.

508
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 2: So we we know that for that cutoff question, we

509
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 2: know that light studies, not deep research, but light studies

510
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,479
Speaker 2: show that oftentimes children growing up at least in the

511
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 2: United States will become aware of the grift and then

512
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 2: decide to play along because it has real extrinsic rewards.

513
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 4: Plan along so they get the better loot, and also

514
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 4: sometimes playing along because perhaps they have a young sibling.

515
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 4: There's a whole nother calculation involved there.

516
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 3: Right, were you guys ever in the Santa world? Like,

517
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 3: did you ever believe?

518
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 4: Absolutely?

519
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 3: No, no, not once. No.

520
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 4: I believed in well into my twenties. Oh no, no,

521
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 4: I'm kidding now, I was probably ten. I think I've

522
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 4: found a hidden Christmas present. Remember it was a Joe

523
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 4: cool snoopy skateboard and I found it in my parents closet.

524
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 4: I don't remember if I was on the hunt for it,

525
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 4: but that is what kind of shattered the illusion.

526
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's around that, like I think eight when my

527
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 3: sister and I like figured out that it wasn't real,

528
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 3: And it was because I think it, Like every kid,

529
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 3: you're fascinated by the concept, and then you make that choice,

530
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 3: like to sneak around and see what the parents are

531
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 3: doing Christmas.

532
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 2: In the closet. Yeah, and this is a it looks

533
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 2: like it's six to eight years old. Tends to be

534
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: when the conspiracy becomes revealed. We know that for kids

535
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 2: who believe in the mission of the Elf on the shelf,

536
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 2: it is a seasonal worker, right, so after Christmas Eve,

537
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 2: the ELF's mission is complete. Whatever name the elf has,

538
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,239
Speaker 2: it returns to the North Pole for another year, and

539
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 2: it checks back with you in Thanksgiving, which means that

540
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: there are doubtlessly there are doubtlessly cases where children have

541
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 2: delved too deeply into the parents closet and discover the

542
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 2: elf in a box you got to hide that you

543
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 2: have to be better than at hide and seek than

544
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 2: your children got it.

545
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 4: I would recommend maybe taking it off site, you know, oh,

546
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 4: just saying a.

547
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 2: Secondary location the works, you guys, it's fine. I love

548
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 2: the idea too, of now treating it like a thriller

549
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 2: or a soccer political mystery spy thing where you say, okay, okay,

550
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: Agent Tyrone, he did good work, but there's a lot

551
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 2: of heat on you right now. So we're gonna need

552
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 2: to We're gonna need you to relocate just to let

553
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 2: things die down. We'll see you on the Turkey t

554
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 2: whitpro give mustache and he lives a separate life.

555
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 3: Really, he actually goes back. He goes back to the

556
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 3: Old Country. To the UK writers like the voice is

557
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 3: that it's almost like that. Jason Statham, So I wrote

558
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 3: for your presence, that kind of thing. So he loves

559
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 3: the concept that he escapes back to like Great Britain and.

560
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 4: Your boy does a voice for him? Where does he?

561
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 3: It's it's no secret we do. I do a lot

562
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 3: of voices with my son. We were silly like that.

563
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 3: And he liked he liked the idea that this tiny

564
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 3: little elf had a deep Jason Sathamish, Yes, yeah, yeah.

565
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 2: Because he's been through some stuff. I also liked the

566
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: idea of the second life in Minnetaka or somewhere in

567
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 2: the in the upper part of the Midwest in the

568
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 2: United States, and this poor ELF's kids are like, hey, dad,

569
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 2: why don't you ever hang out with us at the

570
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: end of the year. And he's like, I've got stuff

571
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 2: to do. It's the greater Christmas.

572
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 4: Good dad, he's got business too much.

573
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 2: Job r r r row to row. I'm the only

574
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 2: person in Minnetolk's just accient, right. So this has been growing,

575
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 2: the concept of the Elf on the shelf. It's been

576
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 2: increasingly popular for two decades now. The trend shows no

577
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 2: sign of slowing. It's moved way past the original children's book.

578
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 2: It's birth the Christmas Verse, or they call it the

579
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 2: Santa Verse all its own. You get we're saying it.

580
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: They mcued it essentially.

581
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 3: Oh and it is intense. You guys. If you want

582
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 3: to talk about a successful company, that's the Lumistella Company.

583
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 3: My goodness.

584
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 4: So this is still the original folks we talked about

585
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 4: from the tops of the book. Okay, this is their mbire.

586
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. They've got an animated special at Elf Story, The

587
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 2: Elf on the Shelf November twenty eleven, that publishes it

588
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 2: gets replayed by CBS every year. There's a Netflix development deal.

589
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty three, the Food Network got in on

590
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 2: the game with an Elf on the Shelf themed baking

591
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 2: reality show, which is pretty wholesome. Actually, it's a fun vibe.

592
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: The dolls are in different skin tones and genders. At

593
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 2: this point, it's really big.

594
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of you said here about it

595
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 3: seems wholesome and and fine. Right, and then you just

596
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 3: see the amount of money that it's generating. If you

597
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 3: look at the Santa Verse, you can go to all

598
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 3: the different characters and the lore they've created about the

599
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 3: origins of Christmas and even the origins of Saint Nicholas,

600
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 3: and they've got they've got a graphic novel that looks

601
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 3: super cool and in the end it feels to me,

602
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 3: you guys, well, I know for a fact it's about

603
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 3: keeping kids attention right in things like the Harry Potter

604
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 3: verse or something like The Lord of the Rings for

605
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 3: a little older crowd. When you build out an entire

606
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 3: universe like that, there's so much to explore, and in

607
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 3: this case, there are so many characters to be invested in,

608
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 3: to keep back and to buy. You know, now you

609
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 3: can buy a Saint Bernard that is a part of

610
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 3: the Santa Verse.

611
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 2: It is Snoop Dogg Elf.

612
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 4: The Snoop I believe.

613
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 3: There's all that stuff, but they're in you're talking about

614
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 3: the media, ben There are even games that you can

615
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 3: go online and spend hours and hours playing a dozens

616
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 3: and dozens of games based on.

617
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 2: This at what time of year it is?

618
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 3: Oh yeah. And the videos, my god, there's so many videos.

619
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 4: Well, and you know it's so zeitgeisted. I guess the

620
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 4: idea of Elf on the shelf is just absolutely I've

621
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 4: been absorbed that you even have, like, you know, other

622
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 4: religions getting on it, like the mench on the bench,

623
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 4: which is like the right and it is honestly a

624
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 4: little bit of a wink and a nod to all

625
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,720
Speaker 4: the stuff we're talking about. It is very self aware

626
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 4: of the mench bench.

627
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 2: And I wanted to put the focus back on you

628
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,479
Speaker 2: folks who are who are probably having a wild time

629
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,959
Speaker 2: listening to this episode. Thank you for joining us. At

630
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 2: this point you are reasonably asking, Okay, yeah, there's a

631
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 2: lot of goodwill here, but there's a lot of money

632
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: as well. Where's it all going? That leads us to

633
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 2: one of the biggest strange discoveries, the Loomis Stella Company.

634
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 2: This is what we will call the hidden hand behind

635
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,760
Speaker 2: the Elf, and it was founded right here in or Home,

636
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 2: stated Georgia By As we mentioned, the co author the

637
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 2: original book, Choonda Bell and her twin sister Christa. They

638
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: founded this company the same year the original book published

639
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 2: in two thousand and five. They described themselves as get this, folks,

640
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 2: a Christmas focused intellectual property company.

641
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, oh yeah, you guys remember Christmas stores? Did

642
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 3: you ever have one of those in your town? Up?

643
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 4: Well, there's also like the weirdly year round the Christmas

644
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,280
Speaker 4: Tree store. And I never understood how those existed.

645
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 2: The yeah pop up like spirit Halloween.

646
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 3: That's exactly some of my for sure.

647
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

648
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well I've also seen ones that maybe stick around

649
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 4: a little longer in other states and cities. But I

650
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 4: know exactly what you're talking about.

651
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 3: Well, I guess my only thought here is we're going

652
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 3: into this company. My thought is I viewed Christmas much

653
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 3: like Halloween. When it comes to commerce. You can sell

654
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 3: stuff for that holiday in a very tight window, and

655
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 3: then you would be able to make a bunch of money.

656
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 3: If you had a dedicated, let's say, storefront that sold

657
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 3: specific stuff.

658
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 2: For that you got it drift in and out of town.

659
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 3: Well yeah, and it makes sense, right because you've got

660
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 3: all that stuff in a warehouse somewhere. You only bring

661
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 3: it out for the time when people are going to

662
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 3: want to buy it. But then this company has figured

663
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 3: out a way, as you were saying, Ben, to just

664
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 3: make a year round. It is a whole world you

665
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 3: can get immersed into.

666
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe if you're a kid, you get some bonus

667
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 2: points if you can persuade your parents to contact the

668
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 2: elf a little bit earlier. The elf is in the

669
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving parade. There's a live musical, one brilliant thing. To

670
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,720
Speaker 2: your point, Matt is that loumis Stella also got into

671
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 2: birthdays back the top it all the year round. Now

672
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 2: you can get the Elf on the Shelf, birthday countdown game,

673
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 2: the Elf on the Shelf, birthday chair decoration kit. All

674
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:51,879
Speaker 2: in all, we're talking.

675
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, decorating chairs for birthdays people. I'm here for it.

676
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 2: We're talking over one hundred and fifty distinct products made

677
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 2: or licensed by this business alone, which is why as

678
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty three, they're worth an estimated one hundred

679
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,720
Speaker 2: million dollars. We're talking selling well over twenty eight million

680
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 2: Elf dolls, and then I got tons and tons of

681
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 2: licensing deals. So the elf gets the cut. The elf

682
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 2: gets a cut, for sure.

683
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 3: That's an incredible amount of money on a per Elf scale.

684
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 3: How what's santasy cut?

685
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 2: Right right? You know, it's kind of like it reminds

686
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 2: me of the problem with starting a good ska band.

687
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 2: You know, now you've got now you've got eight to

688
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 2: twelve people in the band. How do you split the

689
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 2: proceeds of the concert? Right at?

690
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 4: Both Oscar Isaac and Peter Dinklage were both in ska

691
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 4: bands before they got famous.

692
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 2: I believe you it's something in the eyes.

693
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, saying Oscar Isaac's skodband was like a Christian ska.

694
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 3: Band, Wasn't that SmartLess? I feel like I heard maywhile

695
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 3: he's talked.

696
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 4: About it, But there's there's clips out there if you

697
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 4: want to see as Chary Isaac with a yah.

698
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 2: And also, who are we to pooh pooh? Not just

699
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 2: Oscar Isaac's massive success, phenomenal actor, but who are we

700
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 2: to pooh poo the Louis Stella's massive success. I mean,

701
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 2: it's so gosh darn wholesome, except when you see this

702
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 2: success comes with surprising criticism. Psychologist, sociologist, journalist, media analyst,

703
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 2: even a few politicians say that it does not matter

704
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 2: how well intentioned nor how objectively fun this stuff is.

705
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 2: In their opinion, the elf has some uncool, sinister implications

706
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,919
Speaker 2: behind all that holiday cheer.

707
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, it seems like there's no accident that Luma Stella

708
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 4: and the Illuminati are a very close sounding and it's

709
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 4: also giving Techa the chair company vibes. Now that you've

710
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 4: mentioned this chair decorating kit, I don't know why my

711
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,879
Speaker 4: mind immediately jumped there, but Louis Stella, that's got sinister undertones.

712
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 3: But it's like it's almost like Luna. It's almost like

713
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 3: the moon. It's almost like like stellar, like.

714
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 2: The pursuit of happiness, you know what I mean.

715
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 4: Just go, Yeah, it's it's it's it's yours to grab

716
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 4: if if you can reach it.

717
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 2: Okay, criticism, controversy, not here to ruin anybody's Christmas. But

718
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 2: this is the stuff they don't want you to do. First,

719
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 2: a lot of critics are mad about the profits. If

720
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 2: we go to p R O F I. T s

721
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 2: not not that you know, the other profits.

722
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 4: The elves on the shelves are their own kind of profits.

723
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 4: They're you know, bringers of knowledge and wisdom and Christmas.

724
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know it, but we like that

725
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 2: point holds. I would argue because if we go to

726
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 2: folks like the columnist Kate Tuttle writing for The Atlantic,

727
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 2: then we see that she's not holding anything back. She

728
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 2: straight up calls the elf on the shelf quote a

729
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 2: marketing juggernaut dressed up as tradition, and she says it

730
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 2: contributes to something we were talking about just a few

731
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 2: minutes ago. Holiday creep.

732
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're definitely talking about some holiday creeps. In today's episode,

733
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:31,760
Speaker 4: Santa being one of them.

734
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 3: Well, let's really get in this, Okay, before we even

735
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 3: just go to what Kate said, Ben and Nol, let's

736
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 3: just remind people Saint Nicholas, that tradition, the concept of

737
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 3: Saint Nicholas, even though it did get wrapped up and

738
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 3: tied into Coca Cola and all of these other marketing.

739
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 4: Schemes, he was a real fellow.

740
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 3: It does go back to a tradition a saint, but

741
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 3: you know, all the way to he passed away in

742
00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 3: three hundred and forty, So like way way back in

743
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,439
Speaker 3: that tradition carried through and continued to carry through and

744
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 3: off off. Mike Dylan, our producer, was telling us about

745
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 3: some something about the weeping of Saint Nicholas's bones.

746
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 4: Yes, what was leaking bone?

747
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 2: Dylan? Can you can you hit us with a little

748
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,439
Speaker 2: bit of a Tennessee facts about this little noon Christmas lore.

749
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, Saint Nicholas bone juice. Supply his bones create some

750
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 5: sort of liquid that the priests will put into bottles

751
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 5: and sell.

752
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 3: Ood Lord.

753
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 2: Okay, so that's one thing Loomis Stella has not gotten

754
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 2: you yet taking it. Thank you, Dylan. Uh, because I

755
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 2: think we're gonna have a shark take meeting with them in.

756
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,720
Speaker 4: A few I got you, guys, heaf juice, health juice.

757
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 2: Nothing problematic about that could be misinterpreted about that health

758
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 2: juice now with Kathy now with extra caffeine, yah human

759
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 2: and of course a lot of nias and a lot

760
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 2: of vitamin D. We're getting close to call it ourselves

761
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 2: out here. But uh, for journalists like Tuttle, the idea

762
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 2: is that the one of the objections is that the

763
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 2: elf on the shelf is commercializing Thanksgiving, and from her perspective,

764
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:32,240
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving is one holiday that hasn't been sullied by quote,

765
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 2: product tie ins or foe legends unless you calculate stories

766
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 2: about that fabled first Thanksgiving.

767
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 4: Well just also the like, you know, it's such a

768
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 4: gluttonous holiday, you know, I mean, I'm not it's.

769
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 2: Great, big turkey.

770
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 4: I mean, it's terrible for that's what I'm getting.

771
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, she says, this is blatant capitalism,

772
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 2: wearing sort of the sheep's wool of Christmas, and it's

773
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 2: less a genuine tradition and more and endless opportunity to

774
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,359
Speaker 2: purchase things, which is why I'm still arguing I'm going

775
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:09,399
Speaker 2: on this hill again. Christmas is an economic necessity in

776
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,760
Speaker 2: the United States and probably throughout Western Europe.

777
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 4: Oh man, it's its own military industrial complex. There's no

778
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 4: question about it. It drives our economy, especially here in

779
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 4: the United States.

780
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 3: Guys. We're recording this on December seventeenth. You can't really

781
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 3: make anything out in my background here, but that's Those

782
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 3: are all the gifts for the kids and the family

783
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 3: and everything. I haven't wrapped anything up yet, jeez, I was.

784
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 3: I was looking at everything there, just the number of

785
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 3: little things. Again, you can't even really see what it is.

786
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 2: I mean, do the kids know that you have that room?

787
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 3: They have no idea what's happening right now. It's awesome.

788
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 3: I've I've got approximately a couple of days do everything wrapped.

789
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 3: But sure that represents a lot of hours worked in

790
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 3: order to make in order to get all of that crap, to.

791
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 4: Make the thing, to get it here, all of the transit,

792
00:43:58,040 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 4: the freight.

793
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 2: Just how manig podcast that us translate.

794
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 3: How many terrorists had to get paid right exactly?

795
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 2: Man. This is also I love this point here, guys,

796
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 2: because if we go back to tunnel, she makes a

797
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 2: she and others make a a I think of related

798
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 2: in a pretty dangerous point says, Hey, maybe this ELF

799
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 2: on the shelf thing is very stressful for parents, Like,

800
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 2: let's exercise empathy. You know, it's a whole new era,

801
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 2: or a whole new dimension of keeping up with the Joneses.

802
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,919
Speaker 2: The kids go to school, they compare notes with each

803
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 2: other about what their ELF is doing. And it just

804
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 2: breaks my heart to imagine a kid saying, what uh

805
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 2: these other pair these other elves are bacon cookies, they

806
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 2: leave other presents. Why isn't my elf as cool as Jennifer's?

807
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 2: Did I do something wrong? Or that's terrible?

808
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:56,879
Speaker 4: The pressure to participate in it at all. I mean,

809
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 4: these things ain't cheap. Get in the package?

810
00:44:59,680 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 3: Is?

811
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 4: I'm then what are they? They are at least like

812
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 4: forty dollars or more.

813
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 2: It depends, It depends. The loss leader is actually the

814
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 2: book now, which comes you know, as we say, comes

815
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 2: with the plusure elf. Let's check the Pre'm just serious. Yeah,

816
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 2: I've got I've got a couple of the way.

817
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 3: I found a first edition ELF on the shelf and

818
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 3: it's just the book, guys. It costs one hundred and

819
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 3: ninety five dollars from Abe Books.

820
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 2: Okay, that collect first one books are great right now,

821
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 2: if you're looking, you can get the paperback version for

822
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 2: five dollars and ninety nine cents. This is not an advertisement. No,

823
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 2: you're just giving you information.

824
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 4: No, I don't know what. I don't really care about

825
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 4: the book as much. Doesn't it still come package with

826
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:43,919
Speaker 4: the ELF?

827
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 3: Or is?

828
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: Yes?

829
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 4: Yeah?

830
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, the one that I got book and ELF five dollars.

831
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 2: Well that is six dollars for the and the ELF.

832
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:53,720
Speaker 3: I was like twenty something.

833
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 2: Yours was twenty something. This was the paperback version, just

834
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 2: the six dollars one probably doesn't come with the YELF.

835
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 2: But also, weirdly enough, you can buy a kindle version

836
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 2: of the original, which it would be the purpose.

837
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 3: What if you could get like a computer virus installed.

838
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 3: It was the ELF on the shelf, and it could

839
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 3: just like sneak in and just watch what you're doing.

840
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 2: Yes, the scales Christmas scaled, Oh boy, so we don't.

841
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 4: But back to the keeping up. But back to the

842
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 4: keeping up with the joneses of this. I mean, it's

843
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 4: just another layer where Christmas already provides that level of

844
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 4: stress and anxiety, you know, to get the right Christmas presents,

845
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 4: because kids they compare notes on all kinds of stuff.

846
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 4: I mean, I've heard about kids getting bullied because they

847
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,399
Speaker 4: have the stock Fortnite skins, you know. I mean it's

848
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 4: really out of control, the level of like, you know,

849
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 4: my parents make more money than your parents kind of

850
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 4: thing that can happen in school's. Kids are really susceptible

851
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 4: to that, and they can be pretty mean.

852
00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 2: That's why again we recommend not a high road anybody,

853
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 2: but if you have, if you have the time and

854
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 2: the inclination, please consider volunteering to help kids at this

855
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,800
Speaker 2: time of year, or to participate in a charity.

856
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 4: You don't even food drive those are around it any Yeah,

857
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 4: for sure, need to participating, I guess, is what I'm getting.

858
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

859
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 3: You know.

860
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 2: We also know that other experts and journalists seem to

861
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 2: agree with some of the concerns we've been raising. If

862
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 2: you go to an article from Vox in twenty sixteen,

863
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 2: you'll see the journalist Kelsey mckinni who straight up says

864
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 2: this is the headline. By the way, folks, the elf

865
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,280
Speaker 2: on the shelf is the greatest fraud ever pulled odd children.

866
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 2: I don't know, if just a.

867
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 4: Little hyperbolic, I's got it beat. I mean the general

868
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 4: Christmas season as written.

869
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, that's the thing, right, because it is a

870
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 2: fair point, right, But it's necessary to state something we

871
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 2: say every year this pot got me kicked off those

872
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 2: radio shows. Christmas in the States has always been about

873
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 2: deceiving children. We note this in the book. If you

874
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,479
Speaker 2: look through modern history in the United States, you'll see

875
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 2: that indeed, the story of Santa Claus is the first

876
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 2: conspiracy theory many American children encounter.

877
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 4: And how difficult it is to not participate, to not

878
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 4: buy in, because then you get accused of ruining it

879
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 4: for everybody else. So there becomes this like societal pressure

880
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 4: that you ultimately really can't not participate in.

881
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's rug, it's scroogey. You're not some Promethean giver

882
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,879
Speaker 2: of truth when you tell a four year old it's

883
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 2: a grift. Now, you're just being a jerk, you know,

884
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 2: you're like some guy on the wrong sub reddit.

885
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 4: Well but not even that is as well as just

886
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 4: like if your kid's not part of it and is

887
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 4: mixing in with other kids that are, then they're like,

888
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:54,919
Speaker 4: I'm cast out.

889
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,800
Speaker 2: Pressure on, yeah, become a pariah.

890
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it becomes a normalization of going along with

891
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 3: collective delusion. And I wonder how much of that is

892
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 3: deep within us, of just of knowing that something isn't

893
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 3: real or something range. But then you are you have

894
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:17,879
Speaker 3: trained yourself to just say, oh, yeah, when when someone

895
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 3: talks about Sandy, you already know you just it's right,

896
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 3: you just oh, I gotta, I gotta keep with this narrative.

897
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 3: And then we can talk like quietly if I need

898
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 3: to talk to somebody about that or in secret, but

899
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 3: I can't just outwardly say this is bull yeah.

900
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 2: And then on the other side it takes to the beep.

901
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 2: On the other side, you've got people who are so

902
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 2: on board with this that they they're getting culture war

903
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 2: about it. They're going First they came for the elves,

904
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 2: and I didn't say anything. It wasn't an elf. Then

905
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,959
Speaker 2: they came for Santa, and I didn't say anything because

906
00:49:53,960 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 2: I'm not Santa. So where now instead of price the

907
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,879
Speaker 2: Christmas thing, someone has to take a stand a rump

908
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 2: for rump for rump, the root off right right right,

909
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 2: he's the third man on the hill, you know what

910
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 2: I mean. This gets us to the biggest concern, the

911
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 2: one that inspired our episode tonight, the surveillance state. If

912
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 2: you go to folks like Hank Stever writing for the

913
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 2: Washington Post, you'll see an objection that he shares that

914
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 2: a lot of other people share, where they say the

915
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:32,280
Speaker 2: ELF is just another nanny cam in a nanny state

916
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 2: obsessed with penal codes.

917
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 3: Ooo. Yeah, it feels that way. And I do wonder

918
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 3: how many kids these days grow up with an ELF

919
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 3: on the shelf. But then also indoor security cameras, you know,

920
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 3: the ones that have like a shutter or something, but

921
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 3: they're in your living room and they will watch your

922
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,839
Speaker 3: house when you're not there, or sometimes maybe even when

923
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 3: you're there, And like just that normalization of twenty four

924
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,280
Speaker 3: to seven, I am being watched at all times.

925
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, Hank continues writing for the Post. He says, quote,

926
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 2: as long as you believe in him, the Pixie Scout

927
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 2: ELF is no different than the store security camera and

928
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 2: the gizmo that automatically generates speeding tickets. The tattletale elf

929
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 2: who reports back to corporate Christmas machines fits right in

930
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 2: with our times. It's the idea of normalizing non consensual,

931
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:26,320
Speaker 2: constant surveillance and not just making it normal, but making

932
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 2: it seem appropriate, desirable, aspirational fun.

933
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's that word fun.

934
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 2: Oh boy. I don't know if fun is a compliment anymore.

935
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 2: I don't know about everybody else, but often now when

936
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:46,439
Speaker 2: I hear someone being described as the fun in conversation, yeah,

937
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 2: it's a little denigrating. It's little.

938
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 4: Yeah that's fun.

939
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 2: Oh you're so fun.

940
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 3: There's the thing, what do you tell me? What you

941
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:57,320
Speaker 3: guys think when someone you tell someone you're going to

942
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 3: go do something like, hey, I'm popping out at the

943
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,240
Speaker 3: store to go grab some stuff, and then the response

944
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,800
Speaker 3: you get is okay, have fun. I feel like, like, what,

945
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go do some stuff or I'm gonna go

946
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 3: work right now, I'm not gonna go have fun. Yeah.

947
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 2: This is why I'm asking about the fun thing, Matt,

948
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 2: because it's kind of in the use case you're describing,

949
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 2: it comes off as the spoken version of a thumbs

950
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 2: up emoji. Hmm, you know what I mean. Like, there's

951
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 2: not hate behind it. It's not as condescending as saying, oh,

952
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 2: this person is fun, but it is it is. I

953
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 2: don't know. I mean, how what's our alternative if someone says, Hey,

954
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go pop out to the store and grab

955
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 2: some things. D you say, okay, journeys, Okay, trash journeys.

956
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 2: May the fortunes favor you. May the wind be at

957
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:47,240
Speaker 2: your back.

958
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 3: Krogers, May the force be with you.

959
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 2: Let's start doing that. Let's let's get high faluting, high

960
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 2: dramatnes whenever we're talking about little casual things.

961
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 3: But also sarcastics like may you.

962
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:09,919
Speaker 2: We'll figure out where we are at various spectrums, right

963
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 2: right right, The elf says, your fun We know that

964
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:19,359
Speaker 2: privacy overall. No, this is the serious part is it's

965
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:23,760
Speaker 2: kind of a recent concept. It's already eroding the information age.

966
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 2: Astonishing technological breakthroughs. They've all made it increasingly difficult to

967
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 2: keep some information to yourself. As a matter of fact,

968
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 2: there's some pretty exciting and terrifying research that's come out

969
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:43,720
Speaker 2: showing the ability of new diagnostic devices to read people's

970
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 2: thoughts you think of, you know, think of a Rubik's

971
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,720
Speaker 2: cube in your head. They can you can be wired

972
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 2: up to a machine that will reproduce the image. Yay.

973
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 3: It reminds you that stuff we were learning about Wi

974
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 3: fi's capabilities. If you modify them just a little bit,

975
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 3: you can get your modem slash router system to see

976
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 3: who's in the house, and yeah, you could turn.

977
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 2: Wi Fi to Daredevil.

978
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 3: Well, it is weird, man, with all we've talked about

979
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 3: so many times on this show, but with all the

980
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:16,240
Speaker 3: technical technological upgrades and all our systems that have cameras

981
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 3: in them now at all times that we use pretty

982
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 3: much twenty four to seven, not all of us, but

983
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 3: this guy at least does constant. Well, there's this video.

984
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:27,399
Speaker 3: They can see that now.

985
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 2: Hey, yeah, welcome folks, thanks for coming. I'm sorry that

986
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 2: my background looks like a Dexter level Kilbert, but we'll

987
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 2: work on that.

988
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,720
Speaker 3: It looks fantastic and it's only going to get even cooler.

989
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:40,320
Speaker 2: That's so nice.

990
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 3: But the whole point is we had tons of privacy

991
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,920
Speaker 3: back when we had windows that you could cover up,

992
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,359
Speaker 3: like actual physical windows and doors you could lock. Sure,

993
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,240
Speaker 3: we were great, but then we let all this stuff

994
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 3: in around us. Yeah, including these dang elves, including these elves.

995
00:54:57,640 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 2: That's right, We're not giving up the l thing. No,

996
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 2: not everybody thinks. The erosion of privacy, which again is

997
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 2: a pretty short, short term concept right now. Uh, the

998
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 2: modern version of privacy wasn't really a thing for a

999
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:15,399
Speaker 2: long time, a lot of people are gonna tell you

1000
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 2: it's not a bad thing. The old argument goes, hey,

1001
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 2: if you're not doing something wrong, why are you worry

1002
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 2: you're not doing something wrong? Why you got a problem

1003
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 2: with the camera in the bathroom? You know what I mean?

1004
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 2: It monitors you of moisture.

1005
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 4: Oh dear, I think that's an additional ringing feature, the

1006
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 4: moisture monitor.

1007
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 3: And Ben's joking there, but there are there. We talked

1008
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 3: previously on the show about the new what is it

1009
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:45,880
Speaker 3: the new security systems that have microphones in the bathrooms

1010
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:49,359
Speaker 3: like schools and libraries and government buildings where they are

1011
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 3: monitoring to make sure there's no you know, chaos or

1012
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 3: something dangerous happening in that bathroom.

1013
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 2: They said, the video is bad, but the audio is five.

1014
00:55:58,040 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 4: Well, so the theory here is that this is just

1015
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 4: a opening of that normalization of this idea of always

1016
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 4: being watched and just like weaponizing it in a to

1017
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 4: return to our previous fun way. You know this, let's

1018
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,399
Speaker 4: make it fun, you know, you know for kids, right,

1019
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 4: and you don't have an elf when you get used

1020
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 4: to it, as Matt was saying earlier, from such an

1021
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 4: early age, you've trained yourself to go along with the lie.

1022
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 4: Whether you you know eventually the spell is broken, you

1023
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 4: still go along with it for the benefit of others,

1024
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 4: for the greater good. This is just a furthering of

1025
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 4: that mentality that is now sold to kids and parents

1026
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 4: at an even younger age, potentially because I seem to recall,

1027
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 4: like elf on the shelf even is popular with like infants.

1028
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, very much so, because for

1029
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 2: the first couple of years of a kid's birthday in

1030
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 2: the United States, you're kind of buying presents for the parents.

1031
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 2: This this is an important thing we don't want to lose,

1032
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 2: not just the normalization but the weaponization of social dynamics.

1033
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 2: Oh you don't have an ELF. I thought your parents

1034
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 2: loved you. Your parents not like you.

1035
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 3: It's a weird feeling because I didn't give into the

1036
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:13,319
Speaker 3: pressure just personally, guys here until two years ago. No, yeah,

1037
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 3: two years ago, I didn't give into the pressure to

1038
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 3: get in ELF, and all of a sudden I did.

1039
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 3: And it happened to be right at the time when

1040
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 3: my son was ready to like give it up and

1041
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 3: say that this is this is dumb. We don't need

1042
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 3: to do this. But for that one year. It was

1043
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 3: kind of fun and magical and exciting, and there was

1044
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 3: a lot of joy coming from this elf thing. But now,

1045
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 3: especially after researching for this episode, I feel weird about it.

1046
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 3: It just that I did it at all.

1047
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel you.

1048
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 4: I just did a cursory google and there's the thing

1049
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 4: called a PIP, which is a baby elf for infants.

1050
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 4: The idea being that these baby elves haven't developed their

1051
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 4: magic yet, so it's okay for them to be touched.

1052
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 2: It's normalization of a surveillance state. I mean, the argument

1053
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 2: of privacy proves pretty flimsy when we spin out the

1054
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 2: real world's consequences, right, because a surveillance state obsesses over

1055
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 2: not just present but past activity and attempts to leverage

1056
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 2: that information to push people towards certain beliefs, right, to

1057
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 2: push them towards certain actions, and attempting to predict their

1058
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 2: future behavior. So what if you anonymously attend a protest

1059
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 2: a few years ago and back when you go to

1060
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 2: this protest, the protest is legal, but laws change right

1061
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 2: from the time you went to the time you exist. Now,

1062
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 2: Uncle Sam or insert government here says, hey, attending this

1063
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 2: protest was illegal, even though you were there years and

1064
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 2: years back when it wasn't a crime. Now you are guilty.

1065
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 2: The past can be leveraged against you, you know, and

1066
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 2: this goes really dark really quickly. You're a member of

1067
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 2: a demographic or a group that gets demonized, like say

1068
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 2: a law changed and LGBTQ people are getting rounded up,

1069
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 2: and you never publicly identified as a member of that

1070
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 2: community or related communities. But there's massive snooping into your

1071
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 2: private life, your habits, your communications. It prompts government action

1072
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 2: against you. The Elf on the shelf is, according to critics,

1073
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 2: part of a slippery slope into normalizing that kind of

1074
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 2: acceptance and compliance, for sure.

1075
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 3: But it's also just a toy. It's just a marketing

1076
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 3: can company, and it's weird to think about it that

1077
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:39,520
Speaker 3: way because it it can things can be two things

1078
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 3: at once, or we we know this things. Something as

1079
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 3: simple as a commercialized toy can be quite complicated in

1080
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 3: its meaning and.

1081
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 2: Thin as you think about which normalizes militarization.

1082
00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 4: I was listening to us I think it was I

1083
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 4: remember who it was, but podcast recently where someone was

1084
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 4: pointing out that g I. Joe's only shot laser weapons.

1085
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 4: They didn't shoot bullets. And it wasn't until there was

1086
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 4: apparently a Rambo cartoon that was the first like kids

1087
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 4: cartoon franchisey thing that they actually had real bullets.

1088
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 3: Oh my god, imagine that movie Rambo, and then imagine

1089
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 3: somebody going, you know what we need to do, well,

1090
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 3: then we need to make a children These.

1091
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 4: Were like very intense satires that were then co opted

1092
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 4: into children's toys and by the time you get to

1093
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 4: the third RoboCop movie, it's PG and.

1094
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 2: For kids, let's let's Christmas. Uh, let's Christmas up this

1095
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 2: one as well. You know they drew first ill or whatever,

1096
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 2: they drew first ticket o white Elephant. We can obviously

1097
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 2: hear a couple of us in the audience tonight who

1098
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 2: are saying, with some validity, Hey, this is you're you're

1099
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 2: making a mountain out of a lovable cultural mole hill.

1100
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 2: It's not that deep. We can dismiss these hot takes.

1101
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:04,919
Speaker 2: Is just a themera. But academics are in the game too,

1102
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 2: folks like Ontario Tech's Laura Elizabeth Pinto. Professor Pinto says

1103
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 2: the popularization of the elf is essentially pro Big Brother propaganda,

1104
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 2: teaching children that it's okay for other people to spy

1105
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 2: on you and you are not entitled to privacy. In fact,

1106
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 2: it's kind of uncool if you like it.

1107
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 3: Ew you like privacy.

1108
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Darren doesn't even have a phone.

1109
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:37,680
Speaker 4: Back to the point about th uh, you know, Santa

1110
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 4: Claus incorporation into one's life, Like if you don't do

1111
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 4: it and you don't play, then you're around kids that do,

1112
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 4: and then all of a sudden you're like an other

1113
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:47,760
Speaker 4: you know. I mean it's the same deal like having

1114
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 4: a phone or being off the grid. How difficult is

1115
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 4: it for us? As much as we might want to

1116
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 4: not buy into social media or buy into any of

1117
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 4: this kind of technology, it starts to make your life

1118
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 4: really difficult if you yes, you push that or you

1119
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 4: toe that line super hard.

1120
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of like the sci fi film Gadiga. They

1121
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 2: didn't make it illegal not to genetically modify your children,

1122
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 2: but they made it so inconvenient that you couldn't afford

1123
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 2: to have children the natural way. Everybody check out Gadiga.

1124
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 2: It's not really Christmas movie.

1125
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 4: It could be a Christmas movie if you try hard enough.

1126
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 3: There's a movie about new beginnings.

1127
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:28,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, endings.

1128
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 2: You know, it's got Jude Law. He went to some

1129
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 2: Christmas stuff at some point, I'm sure, so we've kept

1130
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:40,480
Speaker 2: Kevin Bacon that connection. Professor Pinto, who's her. Her article,

1131
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 2: The Elf on the Shelf and the Normalization of Surveillance

1132
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 2: is available in full wherever you want to read it.

1133
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 2: She is arguing that the elf is a gateway drug

1134
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 2: to accepting surveillance, essentially saying, if I grew up with

1135
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 2: that adorable elf watching me, is the NSA really all

1136
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 2: that different? Isn't it just another kind of elf? Don't

1137
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 2: I want to be good with my Christmas gift being

1138
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 2: not getting locked up?

1139
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 4: I do, ben, I do, I really do want to

1140
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 4: be good. But interestingly, Professor Pentoth also sees something even

1141
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 4: more sinister at place here, kind of outlining some further

1142
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 4: escalation of these kind of rules of engagement where children

1143
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 4: normally get to physically interact with toys and games. However,

1144
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 4: in this case, no touching is the key to the

1145
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 4: magic that is the elf. Therefore, it's like almost this

1146
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 4: hands off approach, like pay no attention to the man

1147
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:36,959
Speaker 4: behind the curtain, you know, the NSA or whomever else

1148
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:39,320
Speaker 4: is you know, horning in on your privacy, and it's

1149
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 4: just teaching you to like totally be okay with that,

1150
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 4: but also to mind your mind your manners.

1151
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:47,960
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, your p's and your cues. Your Lovable Christmas

1152
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 2: Spy is beyond reproach, beyond criticism, beyond question. It watches

1153
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 2: non negotiably, and if you want your end of the

1154
01:03:56,720 --> 01:04:00,120
Speaker 2: year rewards, you comply, You fall in line. This is

1155
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 2: called an extrinsic reward system. If you get a the

1156
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 2: best way to put it will go to Dan Knows

1157
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 2: what's like. I like the way he writes this for vice.

1158
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 2: He says, if you get a gold star for reading

1159
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 2: a book like we would get a personal pan pizza

1160
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 2: from book it. Yeah, boy, if you get that, that's

1161
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 2: an extrinsic reward. You are encouraging more reading by getting

1162
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:27,840
Speaker 2: a gift or a little buff, a little perk at

1163
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 2: the end.

1164
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:30,600
Speaker 3: But they do that with candy all the time in

1165
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 3: a ton of schools.

1166
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 2: Now they do it with candy with adults. Dude, in

1167
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 2: Japanese hotels. They'll give you candy if you act good.

1168
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 2: I love it. They got me. They got me on.

1169
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 4: That Japanese candy is pretty awesome.

1170
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:49,360
Speaker 2: And the opposite of this, the one that the idea

1171
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 2: that psychologists tend to favor or look upon more favorably,

1172
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 2: is an intrinsic reward, right, doing the thing for the

1173
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 2: sake of having the thing done. So if you just

1174
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:04,439
Speaker 2: decide you like to read books and you don't need

1175
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 2: a gold star or a personal pan pizza, then you

1176
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 2: are reading for an intrinsic reward. So to our earlier question,

1177
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 2: the concern here is whether this affects kids' psychological development.

1178
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:23,120
Speaker 2: If you're teaching kids to comply with social expectations, not

1179
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 2: because it's the right thing to do, but because it's

1180
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:30,040
Speaker 2: a way to snag sick toys, how much further does

1181
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 2: this go? Does it affect their decisions later in life?

1182
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:35,720
Speaker 2: I mean, it's far from an original sin. It's kind

1183
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 2: of the heart of how capitalism works.

1184
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:40,880
Speaker 3: Right yeah. Oh man, the think about how strong it

1185
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:44,560
Speaker 3: is with the gamification of everything nowadays, just all of

1186
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 3: those micro rewards that you get.

1187
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:49,440
Speaker 4: Doing something for the sake of doing it, for the enrichment,

1188
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:51,680
Speaker 4: of doing it for the way it makes you feel,

1189
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:55,880
Speaker 4: versus getting a thing. Yes, okay, and that's again like

1190
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 4: even like the fitness trackers of it all, Like it's

1191
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 4: everything is gamified thing gives you those little dopamine rushes,

1192
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:04,800
Speaker 4: and you could argue that that's cool if it helps

1193
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:08,760
Speaker 4: you exercise more, if it helps you get more steps

1194
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 4: in there there is a world where some of these

1195
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 4: extrinsic rewards aren't inherently bad.

1196
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:18,440
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, agreed. You know, if there's something that motivates

1197
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 2: you to better your life, your personal health, to connect

1198
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 2: with communities, or accomplish goals, then that gamification can be

1199
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 2: a powerful tool. I mean also, clearly this is not

1200
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 2: a hit piece. We're not dunking on the elf. Some

1201
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:38,080
Speaker 2: parents do swear by this. They say, hey, that visual

1202
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 2: presence of that elf on the shelf or wherever it

1203
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:44,960
Speaker 2: may be, that helps my kids behave Also, the lessons

1204
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 2: these kids learn can maybe make them a little more

1205
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:50,960
Speaker 2: conscientious in the future. So we see multiple sides of this.

1206
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 4: Obviously, the creators of this whole thing have benefited from

1207
01:06:55,640 --> 01:07:01,520
Speaker 4: it financially, you know, in exorbitant amounts. Think they saw

1208
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 4: this whole world when they initially kind of had that

1209
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 4: family tradition that they then decided to turn into a

1210
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:08,720
Speaker 4: thing they could sell.

1211
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:09,919
Speaker 2: It's a good question.

1212
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:13,800
Speaker 4: Listen, and do you think it's it's inherently about behavior,

1213
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 4: or is it just a fun little thing that then

1214
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 4: got kind of co opted and made into this much

1215
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 4: larger thing.

1216
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:24,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a family tradition, right, So yeah, so

1217
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 3: it started in that way and it was just kind

1218
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 3: of a fun thing, right. But then one of the

1219
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 3: two sisters who runs the company was a marketing expert,

1220
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:38,920
Speaker 3: was very very good at marketing. So I just imagine

1221
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:42,880
Speaker 3: that that person in particular had a vision of, Hey,

1222
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:44,920
Speaker 3: this is a fun thing we're doing. What if we

1223
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 3: expanded and then just moved on from there. But that's

1224
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 3: speculation on my part.

1225
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 2: Seems seems very like you could have a lot You

1226
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:54,080
Speaker 2: can find a lot of interviews with these folks who

1227
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:56,720
Speaker 2: went on to found loumis Stella. What I like about

1228
01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 2: your question there, Nol, is that we have to remember

1229
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 2: the long term, longitudinal stuff. Twenty years is not a

1230
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 2: huge span of time in the great scheme of things,

1231
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:11,960
Speaker 2: So regardless of anybody's personal stance, worries, or fandom, it

1232
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 2: is going to take a few more decades to see

1233
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:18,680
Speaker 2: whether this elf phenomena has any measurable impact on the

1234
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:22,400
Speaker 2: wide scale acceptance of surveillance. You know, you could even

1235
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:27,599
Speaker 2: say that some of these critics might be projecting their concerns, right,

1236
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 2: they're large or more abstract concerns onto something that is

1237
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:35,479
Speaker 2: more tangible, more physical, something with a face. Right. People

1238
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:36,920
Speaker 2: love putting a face on fear.

1239
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:40,400
Speaker 4: And the reality of it is that these methods of

1240
01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:44,840
Speaker 4: surveillance aren't going anywhere. So it's almost in the best

1241
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 4: interest of people's mental health to kind of find their

1242
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:50,760
Speaker 4: way to accepting some aspects of it. Lest you just

1243
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 4: like lose sleep every night and be terrified that Uncle

1244
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:56,719
Speaker 4: Sam or a big brother or the NSA or whomever,

1245
01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:00,360
Speaker 4: or Santa Claus is watching you. You know, it's about

1246
01:09:00,360 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 4: how we adapt to allow ourselves to move forward in

1247
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:05,840
Speaker 4: the in the present that we are presented with.

1248
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:09,920
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, in order to function, you really do have

1249
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 3: to suspend your disbelief in some way that when I've

1250
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:19,040
Speaker 3: got my cameras uncovered and I'm using my phone and

1251
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:21,880
Speaker 3: I'm just going about my day, and my televisions have

1252
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:25,719
Speaker 3: cameras in them, like, you have to suspend your disbelief

1253
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:29,960
Speaker 3: that nobody else is watching you, Right, You have to pretend.

1254
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 2: Participation in the collective myth called civilization and society. One

1255
01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:38,720
Speaker 2: of our favorite historical examples of this is driving on

1256
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 2: the interstate and pretending that those lines are not just paint, right, say, oh,

1257
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:47,519
Speaker 2: I hope no one swerves today, or I hope they

1258
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:49,760
Speaker 2: put out a little holiday light to let me know

1259
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:51,320
Speaker 2: it win.

1260
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:57,640
Speaker 4: Except the reality is everything is what we choose to

1261
01:09:57,720 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 4: agree upon, and the people that get become those outliers

1262
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:05,599
Speaker 4: are the ones that can't get in line or agree

1263
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:07,559
Speaker 4: to what we agree upon, and then they kind of

1264
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 4: get cast out of society, or at the very least

1265
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:12,519
Speaker 4: people don't want to hang out with them because they're

1266
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 4: can seen as weird or problematic.

1267
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:16,559
Speaker 2: Right where they get you know, eleven other people who

1268
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:18,599
Speaker 2: agree with them, and then they make their own thing.

1269
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:22,719
Speaker 4: Start a cult, you know, a what's the word self

1270
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:23,840
Speaker 4: sustaining community.

1271
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 2: It's a cult. It's only a cult to a certain threshold. Right,

1272
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 2: Eventually you could just use capital are religion.

1273
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 4: If one person's terrorists and other's freedom, another's minister.

1274
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:38,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and obviously I don't want to go back to

1275
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 2: this point you you were teasing there. No, we're not

1276
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 2: here to dunk on these creators. They did have a

1277
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:47,960
Speaker 2: wonderful idea. They have successfully spread it around the world,

1278
01:10:48,280 --> 01:10:51,000
Speaker 2: and yeah, they're making Bukoo bucks off of it, like

1279
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 2: they're making a lot of money, but it is not

1280
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:58,440
Speaker 2: as though they're profiting by running guns or trafficking drugs

1281
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:02,960
Speaker 2: or starting wars or and crazy coups for oil empires.

1282
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:05,760
Speaker 3: And they're not a public company either, are they? I

1283
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:08,920
Speaker 3: don't like they're not. They aren't forced to have that

1284
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 3: infinite growth thing.

1285
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:12,719
Speaker 2: Right, So Nostella is a private company?

1286
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:14,599
Speaker 3: Hey, I actually kind of like that.

1287
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love them to man. All my companies are private.

1288
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 3: Hey, what a weird?

1289
01:11:21,160 --> 01:11:24,719
Speaker 2: How would that fit into a hip hop verse?

1290
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 4: And nobody should have the presumed expectation of privacy, Yes.

1291
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:34,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. The implication here and the conspiracy involved, is

1292
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 2: not therefore necessarily intentional, you know. But the thing we

1293
01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 2: do have to remember, with all due respect, is that

1294
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:46,760
Speaker 2: consequences exist outside of intention. They are independent totally from

1295
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:50,639
Speaker 2: your intent. So the popularity of the ELF has risen

1296
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:55,640
Speaker 2: in step with other vastly less wholesome normalization of surveillance

1297
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:57,040
Speaker 2: and erosion of privacy.

1298
01:11:57,200 --> 01:11:58,720
Speaker 4: Do you think the government's into this? Do you think

1299
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 4: they have me? Yeah, push elf on shelf? You think

1300
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 4: there's like a tie in or a buy in of

1301
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:06,320
Speaker 4: some sort with I mean, I don't think so that

1302
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:08,559
Speaker 4: would be the next level of the conspiracy.

1303
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:11,519
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, to steeple the fingers in the smoky back

1304
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:13,600
Speaker 2: room of a sure Win Williams.

1305
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:14,240
Speaker 4: We need more health.

1306
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:19,800
Speaker 2: We need more health. Elf the world Uh but Elf

1307
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:23,719
Speaker 2: the world? Uh? There are I love that question because

1308
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 2: this woman can't answer. There are powerful people who are

1309
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:30,280
Speaker 2: overjoyed with the success of this and see it as

1310
01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:33,120
Speaker 2: a good sign of winning hearts and minds. I don't

1311
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:35,840
Speaker 2: know if there was a specific meeting or series of meetings.

1312
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:38,559
Speaker 2: They probably kept that one to an email, you know,

1313
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 2: so it was probably like Elf and then somebody else

1314
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:42,160
Speaker 2: wrote nice.

1315
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:45,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, probably by AI, just AI talking to each other.

1316
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:51,519
Speaker 3: Do you wonder if this is gonna if it could

1317
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:55,720
Speaker 3: even possibly reduce the chances of younger people growing up

1318
01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:57,960
Speaker 3: with you know, Elf and the shelf in their life.

1319
01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:01,200
Speaker 3: With the constant surveillance in their life outside of any

1320
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 3: Christmas traditions, we will prevent younger people from even gathering

1321
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:12,280
Speaker 3: together and dissenting against common views or like prevailing views.

1322
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:14,960
Speaker 4: One could argue that that's that's the slippery slope of it,

1323
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:15,439
Speaker 4: for sure.

1324
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:20,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. The third space is already vastly endangered, right and

1325
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 2: has moved to a digital sphere, which makes it easier control.

1326
01:13:25,439 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 3: But when it's moved to a digital sphere, do you

1327
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:31,479
Speaker 3: mean like it's easier to monitor and and snoop on.

1328
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 4: I think it's also one of these things where my

1329
01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:34,960
Speaker 4: kid grew up with up on the shelf. I don't.

1330
01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 4: They're very willing to protest things and speak truth to power,

1331
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:41,519
Speaker 4: but they're not exactly going to protests, and like you know,

1332
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:45,800
Speaker 4: certain joining revolutionary groups, they're doing it largely online. And

1333
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:48,000
Speaker 4: I think to Mend's point, that stuff is a little

1334
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 4: easier to uh, to surveil and to dismantle and to

1335
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:56,960
Speaker 4: what's the word add dissenting voices to the point where

1336
01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 4: we don't know which one is the real revolutionary group.

1337
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:04,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that point, Nol, And thank you. Because

1338
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 2: the brilliance of capitalism is capitalism is the first system

1339
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:13,720
Speaker 2: that figured out a way to monetize its own criticism.

1340
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:18,240
Speaker 2: You make a T shirt that says capitalism and capitalism

1341
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:22,479
Speaker 2: loves it and for twenty five ninety nine and those the.

1342
01:14:22,479 --> 01:14:24,519
Speaker 4: Reason that billionaires give to both political parties.

1343
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:26,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, you got to head your bets, you know

1344
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:29,799
Speaker 2: what I mean. That's why I go to Marco's Pizza

1345
01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:32,920
Speaker 2: and pizza hut. I'm just trying to keep things on

1346
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:35,800
Speaker 2: an even keel, keep my options open. And that goes

1347
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:39,320
Speaker 2: back to what you're saying there, Matt. As we said earlier,

1348
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:42,559
Speaker 2: there has to be more of a longitudinal study. Two

1349
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:45,719
Speaker 2: decades is not long enough. We'll have to see further

1350
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:51,439
Speaker 2: intergenerational results before we know whether this is all sound

1351
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:56,880
Speaker 2: and fury signified nothing, or before we see some traceable

1352
01:14:57,400 --> 01:15:01,479
Speaker 2: influence or impact upon behavior. But we do know for

1353
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 2: sure whether or not you think it's a big deal,

1354
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:08,919
Speaker 2: whether you think it's sinister or wholesome. There are powerful

1355
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:11,880
Speaker 2: people who kind of dig the ELF on the shelf

1356
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:14,640
Speaker 2: surveillance stuff. They do see it as winning hearts and

1357
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:18,360
Speaker 2: minds across the planet, and that, perhaps more than anything,

1358
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:21,640
Speaker 2: is the stuff they don't want you to know. And

1359
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:25,120
Speaker 2: with that, folks, there is stuff we want to know

1360
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 2: from you. Your thoughts, your opinions, the names of your elves,

1361
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:35,640
Speaker 2: their locations, right also their Arctic social Security numbers, a

1362
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:38,880
Speaker 2: list of their childhood elf fears. You can call us

1363
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:41,000
Speaker 2: on a phone, You can always send us an email.

1364
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 2: You can always find us on the lines. Should thou

1365
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:45,840
Speaker 2: sip those social meds.

1366
01:15:45,720 --> 01:15:49,040
Speaker 4: Sip away have that social gluegrine where you can find

1367
01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:51,240
Speaker 4: us in the handle conspiracy stuff where we exist on

1368
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:54,040
Speaker 4: Facebook with our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy

1369
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:57,720
Speaker 4: on xfka, Twitter, and on Instagram and TikTok. However, we're

1370
01:15:57,720 --> 01:15:59,720
Speaker 4: conspiracy stuff show.

1371
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:04,360
Speaker 3: Don't sleep on the Instagram content. Guys, do you all

1372
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:07,639
Speaker 3: remember in December of twenty twenty two when we made

1373
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:11,920
Speaker 3: a little video about uh, that Elf on the Shelf thing?

1374
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:14,120
Speaker 4: Remember this is no I don't it's been such a

1375
01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:16,639
Speaker 4: long time. We need to maybe republish some of that stuff.

1376
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 3: It says share this post to spread the holiday spirit

1377
01:16:19,680 --> 01:16:22,799
Speaker 3: and it features Ben and nol in awesome sung classes.

1378
01:16:23,439 --> 01:16:25,599
Speaker 4: Was it sponsored by Elf on the Shelf Corporate?

1379
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 2: Okay, we've got to break the cop phone. Do the

1380
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:32,519
Speaker 2: phone number, phone er, who is coming?

1381
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:34,840
Speaker 3: Our phone number? You can call us. You can call

1382
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:37,519
Speaker 3: our voicemail system right now. Our number is one eight

1383
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:41,040
Speaker 3: three three st d W y t K. Turn those

1384
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:43,720
Speaker 3: letters into numbers. You'll figure it out when you call in.

1385
01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:45,840
Speaker 3: You've got three minutes. Give yourself a cool nickname and

1386
01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:47,280
Speaker 3: let us know if we can use your name and

1387
01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:50,280
Speaker 3: message on the air. If you've got I don't know

1388
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:52,240
Speaker 3: other stuff to say, and maybe you want to type

1389
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:54,000
Speaker 3: it out, Why not instead send us a good old

1390
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:54,719
Speaker 3: fashioned email.

1391
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:58,160
Speaker 2: We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence

1392
01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:01,320
Speaker 2: we receive. Be well aware, yet out afraid. Sometimes the

1393
01:17:01,439 --> 01:17:06,400
Speaker 2: void writes back. Send us your favorite obscure Christmas traditions,

1394
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:10,840
Speaker 2: tell us your favorite part about normalization of the surveillance state,

1395
01:17:11,200 --> 01:17:13,439
Speaker 2: or you know, just send us a picture of your pets.

1396
01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:16,800
Speaker 2: You know, we always love a good joke. Joined us

1397
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:21,439
Speaker 2: out here in the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. Also,

1398
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:38,360
Speaker 2: and we got to say it. Merry Christmas.

1399
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:44,320
Speaker 3: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1400
01:17:44,439 --> 01:17:48,960
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1401
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:51,920
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.