1 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, how much does it cost to discover a 2 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: new particle? Well, I'm sorry to say that, like everything else, 3 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: the prices seem to be going up and up. Oh, 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: you mean, like with inflation. I think there's more than 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: that going on. I mean, the electron was really cheap 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 1: to discover in the eighteen hundreds, but then the top 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: corps probably cost a billion dollars or so a billion 8 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: dollars to discover one particle. A billion dollars is cheap. 9 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: These days, the Higgs boson probably cost more than ten 10 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: billion dollars and billion. That's like super fancy caviar probably 11 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: tastes just as bad, Daniel. Cavire isn't about the flavor, 12 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: it's about the glamour. Well, that's also true about particle physics. 13 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: I mean, it's all ball gowns and tuxedos in the 14 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: control room at CERN. I see, that's why it costs 15 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: ten billion dollars. It's the dress code that's killing you. 16 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: At least you have a dress code. I thought physics 17 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: just war. You know, boxer shorts and T shirts. It's 18 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 1: a T shirt with a tuxedo printed on it. Hi 19 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: am or handmade cartoonists and the creator of PhD Comics. Hi, 20 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist who's never discovered a 21 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: new particle. Oh yet, Well, technically, Dan, don't you discover 22 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: new particles all the time? Like you know this oxygen 23 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: molecule and breathing right now? Is it's technically new to me? 24 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 1: That's true. Each individual particle has its own wonderful spirit 25 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: and personality. But we're more interested in new types of particles, 26 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: new things that nobody in the world has ever seen before, 27 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: things that can blow our minds and teach us something 28 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: new about the universe. Well, welcome to this new type 29 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: of podcast. Daniel and Jorge Explained the Universe, a prolection 30 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio, in which we sort through all 31 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: the amazing and crazy stuff in this universe. The stuff 32 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: made of oxygen, the stuff made of carbon, the stuff 33 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: made of nitrogen, and the stuff made of things we 34 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: don't even yet understand. The rest of the universe, whatever 35 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: it's made out of, we tackle it. We asked the 36 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: big questions and we try to explain all of it 37 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: to you. Because there is a lot of stuff in 38 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: the universe, actually, maybe an infinite amount of stuff. Right 39 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: there might be an infinite number of particles, and there 40 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: might even be an infinite number of kinds of particles. 41 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: We have no idea. We're looking at an ice cube 42 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: and we don't know if it's the whole cube or 43 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: just the tip of the iceberg. That's right, everything is 44 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: made out of stuff, and we are made out of stuff, 45 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: and we are also constantly trying to discover what this 46 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: stuff is made out of and how it works and 47 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: how it's put together, and what are the rules that 48 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: tell the stuff what it can and cannot do. It 49 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: feels like if we could pull apart everything in the 50 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: universe into its tying these little bits and understand those rules, 51 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: we will have revealed something true, something fundamental, something deep 52 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: in the source code of the universe. And like looking 53 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: at those rules and understanding that basic set of particles 54 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: would finally tell us how the universe is really put together. 55 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: I guess it's pretty amazing that, you know, there's all 56 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,679 Speaker 1: this stuff in the universe and us little humans on 57 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: this little rock floating in space and sort of figured 58 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: out that this stuff has kind of rules and types 59 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: of stuff to it, right, Like it's not just random 60 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: and there's only a certain number of kinds of stuff 61 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: that out there, and that kind of stuff has certain 62 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: rules about how it can put together and how it 63 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: interacts with itself. Yeah, And the incredible thing is that 64 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 1: there's a pretty small number of particles, like the particles 65 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: that make up me and you. It's just really three 66 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: of them, is the upcord, the down cord, and the electron. 67 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 1: But you can put those particles together in so many 68 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: different ways to get an incredible variety of things. So 69 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: as you look at into the universe and you see 70 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: all these weird things, you know, from bananas to comets 71 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: to planets to neutron stars, you know that all those 72 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: things are made of the same basic particles, just put 73 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: together in different ways. And it's sort of incredible, like philosophically, 74 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: that the universe even works that way, that you could 75 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: take all this incredible complexity and boil it down to 76 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: relative simplicity of the at the lowest level. Even caviar 77 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: Daniel's caviar made out of regular particles or really expensive particles. 78 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: It tastes like it's made out of some other weird, 79 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: kind of gross particles. I take it you're not a 80 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: fan of the caviar. Not a fan of tiny little 81 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: salty fish eggs exploding in my mouth. You don't even 82 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: really understand how that's the thing. Maybe you haven't bought 83 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: the expensive kind, You've only had the cheap kind. You've 84 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: only had the electrons of I should just keep spending 85 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: more money on caviar until I like it. Yeah, that's 86 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: a good idea. It's all about the cracker. Like, if 87 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: you have the right cracker, you can put anything on it, caviar, 88 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: higgs bosons. It doesn't matter if you have the right cracker. 89 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: It's all good. Higgs boson exploded in your mouth. That 90 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: would be kind of troublesome, wouldn't it. I don't know. 91 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: It might be salty, might be delicious. It would already 92 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: cost a lot of money, that's right, At ten billion 93 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: dollars per particle. I don't think I could even taste it. 94 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: But yeah, we are all made out of stuff, and 95 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: that stuff in one sense, it feels like it's made 96 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: out of a small number of kinds of stuff, you know, 97 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: like you said, quarks and electrons. But at the same time, 98 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: it seems like the universe is full of all kinds 99 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: of particles and possibly, as you said, maybe an infinite 100 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: number of different kinds of particles. Yeah, we sort of 101 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: took a left turn there at some point in history. 102 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: Like for a long time we were taking this stuff 103 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 1: around us, and we were figuring out that it was 104 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: made of a simpler set of stuff, you know, like 105 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: all the crazy stuff in the universe is made out 106 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: of elements, and then oh, it turns out those elements 107 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 1: are just made out of protons and neutrons and electrons, 108 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: and oh wow, look the protons and neutrons are made 109 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: out of quarks. We were getting simpler and simpler and simpler. 110 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 1: But then at some point we discovered a bunch of 111 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: other weird stuff, other weird particles that you don't need 112 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: to make up ordinary matter, things we've talked about in 113 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: the podcast, like muans and tows and other kinds of quarks. 114 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: And it's sort of puzzling, like why those particles exist. 115 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: You don't need them to make bananas, so why do 116 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: they exist in the universe. But if we systematically discover 117 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: all of them, we might get some sort of like 118 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: glimpse at the larger pattern and figure out what is 119 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: really going on in the universe. Yeah, it's kind of humbling, 120 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: I guess to think that, you know, we are basically 121 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: masters of our We think we're masters of our universe. 122 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: But really we're just made out of a small corner 123 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: of the particle, you know, table and even matter and 124 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 1: even stuff is just a small part of the the 125 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: whole universe, right, Most of the universe is energy. Yeah, 126 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: that's true. A huge fraction of the universe is just energy, 127 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,799 Speaker 1: and we are made out of sort of the lightest stuff. 128 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: Like all these other heavy particles, they don't last for 129 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 1: very long, and they fall apart really quickly, and they 130 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: decay into lighter and lighter particles. So the reason the 131 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: electron lives forever while the muon doesn't is that the 132 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: electron is the lightest thing. It can't turn into anything lighter, 133 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: whereas the muan can decay into the electron. So everything 134 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: is made out of these lightest particles. It's sort of 135 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: like if everything was just made out of hydrogen or 136 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: hydrogen and helium. Instead, we're made out of a much 137 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: more complex set of stuff. And so in the same 138 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: way for particles, we want to understand, like what are 139 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: those other heavier particles and what can they do? It 140 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: would be cool if we were made out of helium 141 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: and we all float around, right technically, or I guess 142 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: if everything else was made out of hydrogen, which just 143 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: fall to the bottom. I'm actually on the all helium 144 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 1: diet right now. I'm trying to lose uh. It works. Actually, 145 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: I just keep inflating this balloon and I keep losing weight. 146 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: It's amazing you're in the helio diet exactly. If I 147 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: got a big enough balloon, I'll be literally waitless, but 148 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: your voice will be really high pitched, and this podcast 149 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: would be a totally different experience, right. That's right, Eleven 150 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: and the Chipmunks present the Universe, Daniel and the Chipmunks. 151 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: But you know, we are sort of asking this question 152 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: all the time of what kinds of particles are out there, 153 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,559 Speaker 1: and what kinds of particles can exist and do exist, 154 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: and what are they for? And so scientists are hard 155 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: at work at it. And one of the biggest places 156 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: to do that, to search for new particles, is a 157 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: place that you were work at, right, Daniel. That's right 158 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: at the Large Hadron Collider, which is not just one 159 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: of the biggest places to do particle physics, it's like 160 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: one of the biggest science experiments ever in terms of 161 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: money spent, and like actual physical size is an incredible accomplishment. 162 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: It's sort of like the Golden gate Bridge of particle physics. 163 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: You know. I stand at the Golden gate Bridge sometimes 164 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: and I'm like, wow, look what humanity can accomplish when 165 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: we all work together. And the Large Hadron Collider is 166 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: similar to that. It's an incredible feed not just of physics, 167 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: but also of engineering and organization and also politics that 168 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: all these different countries from all over the world came 169 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: together to build this incredible device that's helping us peer 170 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: into the very very core of matter. Yeah, it's a 171 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: big science experiment, although I thought the biggest science experiment 172 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: was caviar Daniel like, how much can you get people 173 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: to pay for something that's salty and crunchy? Are you're 174 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: thinking of the Large Caviart Collider, I think, which is 175 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: still being constructed somewhere in Russia. Yeah, the Large the 176 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: other LC. Yeah, they collide money and Higgs to get 177 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,599 Speaker 1: new kinds of profits. But yeah, the LC is the 178 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,119 Speaker 1: biggest science experiment ever and also one of the most expensive. 179 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: You said earlier that it caused about ten billion dollars 180 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: just to find the Higgs boson. But the LC is 181 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: a larger project than that, right, Like, it's looking for 182 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 1: other things, and it costs a lot more than ten 183 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: billion dollars. Ten billion dollars is about the cost of 184 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 1: the project. It depends on little bit exactly how you 185 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: do the accounting. But you know, it costs like a 186 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: billion dollars to build the tunnel, and a couple of 187 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: billion dollars to make those magnets, and then billions more 188 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: to build the detectors and actual bean pipe and all 189 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: that stuff. So altogether the whole project is a little 190 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: bit more than ten billion dollars. And you're right. While 191 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: many people think about the Higgs boson when they think 192 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: about the large age On collider, it's actually a much 193 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: broader science experiment. We were hoping when we turn this 194 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: thing on, not just to find the Higgs boson, though 195 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: we're happy to have done so, but to also find 196 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: all sorts of other crazy stuff that might have been 197 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: out there. Because remember, these experiments are like exploration. We 198 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: don't know what we're going to find until we turn 199 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: the machine on. That's why we build it, and so 200 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: it's always a bit of a gamble. Yeah. Well, although 201 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: I think the Higgs Boson sort of put it on 202 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: the map, right, Like, I feel like probably very few 203 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: people had heard of the L A C before the 204 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: big discovery of the Higgs Boson about ten years ago, 205 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: that's right, that's when it made it onto the a 206 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 1: list of particle physics experiments. Before that, it wasn't even 207 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:57,719 Speaker 1: getting invited to those caveat parties. Is there an a 208 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: list went up through about the Well, you know, there 209 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: are bragging rights for who has the most powerful collider 210 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: in the world, And for a long time the Americans 211 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: dominated it, and then the Europeans took over in the nineties, 212 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 1: and then the Americans stole the lead back in the 213 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: early two thousands, and now the Europeans have had it 214 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: for a while. And you know, it's not just enough 215 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: to have the most powerful collider in the world. You 216 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: have to find something new. You have to make a 217 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: big discovery that leads to a Nobel Prize. And so 218 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: you're right that seeing the Higgs Boson really put the 219 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: L A C on the map. That's what I mean, 220 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: Daniel to de list, I meant, like the discovery list. 221 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: It's a good thing. Yeah, But anyways, I guess a 222 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: big question is besides the l A C, what else 223 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: has the Large Hadron Collider discovered? Like, I know, you 224 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: set out to find lots of different particles and the 225 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: big one was the Higgs boson. But I bet people 226 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: don't know that the l AC is looking and has 227 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: discovered a lot more particles than that. Yeah, we can 228 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: do lots of really interesting physics with the l A T. 229 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: It's not just for the Higgs boson. So to be 230 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: on the podcast, we'll be asking the question how many 231 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: particles has a large Hadron Collider discovered? I think probably 232 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of people maybe get confused. 233 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: They probably associate the age in the l C with 234 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: the Higgs boson. What do you think? Commercial? There you go, 235 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: the long Higgs Boson commercial. Man, I can't skip this ad. 236 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: What's going on? Click? Click click, click click The lofty 237 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: higgs Boson commercial? Good because you know, if I was 238 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: the Higgs boson and I wanted to make a splash, 239 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: the LC has been a big part of that, right, Yeah, 240 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: that's true. The LC has been a good part of 241 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: the Higgs boson marketing campaign. Who was hiding for fifty 242 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: years while people were trying to look forward? But finally 243 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: allowed itself to be discovered in t So, as usual'll 244 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: be wondering how many people out there and have thought 245 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: about what other particles that l a C has discovered. 246 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: So Daniel went out there into the wilds of the 247 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,839 Speaker 1: internet to ask how many particles has the l a 248 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: C discovered? And if you are a denizen of the 249 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: wilds of the Internet, and you wouldn't mind me knocking 250 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: on your virtual door to ask you for six questions 251 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: that you haven't prepared for, please write to us two 252 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com. We want to 253 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: hear from you, and we think you'll have fun. Do 254 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: you always start the day not not joke, the physics 255 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: not not joke. I didn't, but now I will. We'll 256 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: have the brainstorm, all right. Well, here's what people had 257 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 1: to say. I know of only one particle that the 258 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 1: LHC has discovered, which is the Higgs boat on, but 259 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: I cannot imagine that's the only one it has discovered. Ever, 260 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: would be quite an expensive machine who would only have 261 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: discovered this one particle? But maybe that's actually the case. 262 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: So my answer to is only one. I don't know 263 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: the number, but for sure it needs to be more, 264 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: and I like to be more. I think it's time 265 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: to build a new, bigger particle collider, hopefully here in US. 266 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:59,599 Speaker 1: LHC must be the large Hadron collider. Hadron is a 267 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: particle and you're colliding them together, so maybe you're smashing 268 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: it up into smaller particles. I have no idea. Maybe three, 269 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: maybe seven. I think the LHC has discovered only one particle. 270 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: That would be the Higgs boson. I hope I'm not 271 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: terribly off. I'm going to guess that the l a 272 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: C has maybe discovered seven new particles. I know the 273 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: most or the most recent particles that I know of 274 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 1: that was discovered at the allergacy is the Higgs in 275 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: I think, so I would say the number of new 276 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: particles the allgacy has discovered is one. All right, there's 277 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: a broad range here. Some people say one that you've 278 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 1: only had a one hit wonder the l a C. 279 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: And some people have a certain number, like maybe seven 280 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: or a few. A couple of people said seven. I 281 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: wonder where that number came from. I don't know, but 282 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:53,719 Speaker 1: I think if you just ask people to pick a 283 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: number between one and ten, something like fifty of them 284 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 1: say seven, So I think it's de bias there. Yeah. Wow, 285 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: like we have an internal die, you know. Yeah, yeah, exactly, 286 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 1: we are bad random number generators. But there's some fun 287 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: answers here. Some people give the large hage On collider 288 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: credit for discovering the top cork that was actually discovered 289 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: by the fermulab Tevatron, the previous record holder for the 290 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: highest energy collider right the other d listen, yeah exactly, 291 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: and I do like the person who supports building a new, 292 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: bigger collider here in the United States, thank you very much, 293 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: right to your congress person, or hey, cut us a 294 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: check for twenty billion dollars. Technically it could happen, right, 295 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: Like if someone like Basis suddenly, instead of going to space, 296 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: wanted to discover a new particle, they could totally make 297 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: that happen. Wow, that's true. I never even thought about 298 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: emailing Jeff Bezos and asking him to spend twenty billion 299 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: dollars on a particle collider. But I'm doing that just 300 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: as soon as we're finished here. Yeah, he probably just 301 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: has to reach into his pocket and pull out some chain. 302 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: But you're right. The larger point is that the only 303 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: thing preventing us from building a bigger collider and discovering 304 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: more particles is money, Like we know how to do it. 305 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: It's just kind of expensive because you have to dig 306 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: these big tunnels and pay for really fancy magnets to 307 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: bend the particles around in a circle. But the only 308 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: limitation is money, which is understandable. These things are expensive. 309 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's frustrating though, because it feels like we could 310 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: just be buying knowledge about the universe, like we just 311 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: lay out some cash, boom, the universe will reveal some 312 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: secrets to us. I think the question is why does 313 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: the universe charge so much? Like why can't the universe 314 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: just give us these things for free? Like is it 315 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: trying to sell caviare you know? Like it's I feel 316 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: like it's maybe overpricing it a little. Do we have 317 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: it like another universe We can maybe get a competitive 318 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: bid off. Yeah, we should negotiate with the universe. I 319 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: don't know. I think we treat these things with value 320 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: because we pay more for them, right, Like if you 321 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: buy expensive shoes, then you're gonna think they're better shoes. 322 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: And so we think the Higgs boson is super important 323 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: because we spent so much on it. You just admitted 324 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: that you're using the caviare strategy here to overvalue physics knowledge. 325 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: But you know, we've also talked in the podcast about 326 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: physics discoveries made with very cheap materials, like the whole 327 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: two dimensionals here. That's something somebody discovered using literally scotch 328 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: tape and a pencil. So you can totally discover things 329 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: using you know, five dollars worth of materials, but some 330 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: things do cost billions keeping price gouging humanity. That's right. 331 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: We only spend ten bucks on the collider. The rest 332 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: we're spending on caviare and ball gowns and T shirts 333 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: with taxed those printing on them. But I guess you 334 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: know it does cost a lot of money. I know 335 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: it's expensive and maybe so maybe step us through this, 336 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: like what's going on at the l h C. How 337 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: does it work and why does it require so much 338 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: infrastructure to make discoveries? Yea, So the basic idea of 339 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: the large hay Drunk collider, like the reason to the 340 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: Large hay Drunk Collider, is a window into the universe. 341 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: The whole strategy for using it to discover new particles 342 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: is to rely on Einstein's famous equation E equals mc squared, 343 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: where E is energy and M is mass. And the 344 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: goal is that we are looking for particles with a 345 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: lot of mass. The particles that we see around us 346 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: electrons and quarks. These are the lowest mass particles. As 347 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: we talked about before, they're the stable ones. It's like 348 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: the bottom rung of the ladder. Everything sort of like 349 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: shakes down to the bottom rung of the ladder, the 350 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: way like boulders tend to roll downhill and settle in 351 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: the bottom of a valley. But we're interested in what 352 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: the other rungs of the ladder are. Are there heavier 353 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: particles out there? What are the heaviest particles? And we 354 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: are limited in seeing those by the energy we can 355 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: use to create them. So E equals mc square. It 356 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: means if you want to create a particle with mass m, 357 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: you need to put in as much energy as mc 358 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: square to create it. So what we do with a 359 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: large hadron collider is smash particles together, very low mass 360 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: particles like protons, with a huge amount of energy, so 361 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: we can turn that energy into the mass of some 362 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: new kind of particle. Right. I guess what's interesting is 363 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: that you're trying to make these particles. Like you're trying 364 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: to discover particles that are out there, and you're doing 365 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: that by trying to make them Like you're not sort 366 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: of like breaking things apart and seeing what's there. You're 367 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: really trying to sort of create conditions where they pop 368 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: out of the vacuum, out of the nothingness. Yeah, it's alchemy. 369 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: We are turning one kind of matter, are like normal 370 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: everyday protons, into something new. It's not like we're taking 371 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: the protons apart and looking for weird things in them. 372 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: Sometimes these weird particles are called sub atomic, which is 373 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: a little confusing because it implies that they're like inside 374 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: the atom, but they're not. You can smash two protons 375 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: together and make something totally new, which is not like 376 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 1: a combination of the bits of the proton. And the 377 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: reason you can do that is that you turn the 378 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: protons into pure energy and then back from energy into 379 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 1: a new kind of mass. So, as you say, we're 380 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: making something new, so we're discovering it, not in the 381 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: sense that like it's sitting there waiting for us to 382 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: find it. It's sitting there on the list of possibilities, 383 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: waiting for us to bring the ingredients, which is energy 384 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: around so that nature can make it for us. Right, 385 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: It's like you're discovering it in the sense of like 386 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: going to a new restaurant, taking the menu, and then 387 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,919 Speaker 1: like discovering new dishes that could be made for you. 388 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: That's right. We're like, oh, if we have enough money 389 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: in our wallet, then we can afford this really expensive 390 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: cavi are right, And so we are pouring energy into 391 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: the climer because it allows us to look deeper, deeper 392 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: onto nature's menu, so we can see what particles can 393 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: be made. The amazing thing about the particle collider is 394 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 1: that it's quantum mechanical, which means that when you smash 395 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: these particles together, you don't know what's going to happen. 396 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 1: You can predict the kinds of things that might happen, 397 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: but for a given collision, you have no idea what 398 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: might happen. Is like a list of possibilities. The cool thing, though, 399 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: is that if you do it often enough, eventually you'll 400 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: see everything on that list of possibilities. So you like 401 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: exploring this menu of possibilities what nature might do just 402 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: by doing the same collision over and over and over again. Right, 403 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 1: I do that Sometimes I just go to restaurant and 404 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: I order randomly from the menu, over and over and 405 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: over and over, and eventually you try everything on the 406 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: menu and also gain a lot of it. That's exactly 407 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 1: what we're doing here. We're just going to the restaurant 408 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: with our eyes closed, putting our fingers on the menu. 409 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: And that's our strategy for ordering everything. You're going to 410 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: the cosmic diner and taking that greasy menu and and 411 00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: just putting your finger anywhere on it. If we knew 412 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: what was on the list already, we could look for 413 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: it more intelligently. You know, we could design experiments that 414 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: put in exactly the right amount of energy to make 415 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: that particle we know is already there. We can do 416 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. But if when you don't know 417 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: what is there, then you have to just sort of 418 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: poke around blindly, hoping something new appears when you put 419 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: your finger on it, hoping you get a good dish. 420 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: All right, well, let's get into how you actually see 421 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: these particles at the large hydron collider, and let's get 422 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: into what other particles they have found. But first let's 423 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: take a quick break. All right, we're talking about what 424 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: else has a large hydron collider the l a C 425 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,719 Speaker 1: discovered and Daniel, technically this is not a sponsored podcast episode, right, 426 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:52,919 Speaker 1: We're not being paid by the LHC. Here. I'm not 427 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: a shill for big science. I mean I am, but 428 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: I'm not getting paid to do it. Well, technically, you're 429 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 1: paying the l a C to do your work like that. 430 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: That's how it works, the collaboration and scientists have to 431 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 1: like pay into it to use the facility and to 432 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: get access to the data. Yeah, I mean, I'm not 433 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 1: paying personally out of like my kids, Picky Bank. We're 434 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: using government research funds. And so it's the US government, 435 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 1: just like it's the German government and the Italian government 436 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 1: and the British government. All these governments are paying to 437 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: support this international facility for scientists to use. And so 438 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: in the end it's all of us, right, it's all 439 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: taxpayer money. Though. It's me and you and everybody down 440 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 1: the street chipping in a few cents so that we 441 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,439 Speaker 1: can learn something new about the universe. Right. Well, and 442 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: then technically Basis is chipping more than we are, so 443 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: I think he pays zero taxes. Actually, so we're paying 444 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: more than he is. I think he pays from when 445 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: he buys that yacht, I think he's paying more taxes 446 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: than I ever will in my life. But we're talking 447 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 1: about how the LC works, and so you slash all 448 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: known particles like protons together, and out of that ball 449 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: of energy that gets made in that collision, new things 450 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 1: come out. And you're doing that over and over and over, 451 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 1: trying to find what else the universe can make and 452 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: what else will pop out. That's right. We sift through 453 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: all these collisions looking for something new, something that's not 454 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,400 Speaker 1: what we've seen before. We're very familiar with the old particles. 455 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: We've been doing this for decades, and so what we're 456 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: looking for is an anomaly, something surprising, something different, a 457 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,360 Speaker 1: new kind of thing that hasn't been seen before. Right, 458 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: would you be surprised if like a cow like appeared 459 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: out of your collider. We often use the example of 460 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: pink elephants, you know, like when we turn on the 461 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: collider and we don't know what could come out. It 462 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: could be pink elephants, it could be the Higgs boson, 463 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: it could be nothing. You really don't know, Oh, I said, 464 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: you've thought about this, you know, large mammal appearance just 465 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: in case and of course, you know, you have to 466 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: balance the charge, and so you would have a pink 467 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: elephant and an anti pink elephant created together like a 468 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: great elephant. What would be the opposite of a pink elephant, 469 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: a great mammoth maybe I don't know, maybe a blue 470 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: ant a blue and you and we'll have to develop 471 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: a mammoth collider to investigate that one. But then need 472 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: they touch each other? It's bad news, it's bad news. Yeah. 473 00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: So then you collect these and every once in a 474 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: while new particles come out, but they don't last very long, right, 475 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: Like you're looking for things that don't just pop out 476 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: and sit there on your counter. They disappear or changing 477 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: to other things quickly. That's right. We are creating high 478 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 1: energy density. We're pushing things up the ladder and they 479 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: exist very briefly and then they fall apart back into 480 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: low mass stable particles, the kinds of things that you 481 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: and I are made out of. And you know, this 482 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:22,880 Speaker 1: is just what the universe does. You gather a bunch 483 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: of energy together, it likes to spread it out. So 484 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: we create these new heavy particles like a top cork 485 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: or a Higgs boson. They last in that state. We 486 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 1: know they exist, but they're only there for like ten 487 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,719 Speaker 1: to the minus twenty seconds. It's like the briefest moment 488 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,439 Speaker 1: in the sun before they decay back into lighter stuff, right, 489 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 1: Because often you don't even detect the particles you're looking for, 490 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: like the Higgs boson, And it's not like you had 491 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 1: a detector that detected the Higgs boson. It's like you 492 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: detect the things that the Higgs boson the case into 493 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 1: and then you piece it back like, oh, this must 494 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 1: have been the Higgs boson that existed there in the 495 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: middle for ten to the minus twenty seconds. That's right. Technically, 496 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: we've never seen a Higgs boson. I mean they last 497 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: so briefly. We have no detector capable of seeing it directly. 498 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: All we can do is see what it turns into. 499 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: As you say, it's like coming to a street corner 500 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: and seeing the remnants of a car accident and figuring 501 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: out what must have happened, but not actually seeing the 502 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: collision itself. And so in the case of the Higgs boson, 503 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: for example, the Higgs likes to turn into a pair 504 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: of photons or a pair of bottom corks, and those 505 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: photons and bottom corks have particular configurations and energy to 506 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: tell us that they must have come from a Higgs boson. 507 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 1: So we can never actually be sure for any given 508 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: collision what it came from, but we can make statistical 509 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: arguments and say, oh, this one is more likely to 510 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: be from a Higgs than from something else. That would 511 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: also give you the same sort of signature in our detectors. 512 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 1: And so that's what you do. You're colliding protons hoping 513 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: to get new particles. And so the question we started 514 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: off was was what has the NHD discovered in those collisions. 515 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,719 Speaker 1: Now we know the big one was the Higgs boson, 516 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 1: which was discovered almost ten years ago, So tell us 517 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 1: about that discovery and like sort of the specifics of 518 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: how it was found. Yeah, so they Higgs boson is 519 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: something we suspected was there. We looked at the patterns 520 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: of all the particles and we said, this just doesn't 521 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 1: make sense. And a guy named Peter Higgs realized that 522 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: it would make much more sense, like it mathematically just 523 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: clicked together beautifully if there was another particle. It's like 524 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: if you have a jigsaw puzzle and there's a piece missing, 525 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: you look at it, you can see the shape you're like, 526 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: there must be one, and so you hunt around under 527 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: the table looking for that particular piece. It's much easier 528 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 1: to find a piece if you know what you're looking 529 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: for and you suspect it exists. So we already had 530 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: the idea that the Higgs boson might exist and how 531 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: it would be created and what it would look like 532 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: in our detector. And we have a whole fun podcast 533 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: episode about the journey to find the Higgs, so long saga, 534 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 1: lots of drama, lots of politics. But we ended up 535 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,360 Speaker 1: finding at the large Hdon collider in exactly that way 536 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: that we talked about. It turns into two photons. So 537 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: the Higgs boson is this little particle and it decays 538 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: in this complicated way that ends up giving two photons, 539 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 1: one in one direction and one in the other direction. 540 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: And we surround these collisions with all sorts of layers 541 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,439 Speaker 1: of detector. Is that tell us what came out of 542 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: those collisions. So we saw a lot of these events 543 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 1: with two photons, one photon one way and the other 544 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: photon going in the other direction. When you add up 545 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: their energy, the energy of those two photons, it comes 546 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: up to a certain number, and that's the mass of 547 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: the Higgs boson, and so we saw a lot of 548 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: these particular kinds of collisions that led to this pattern 549 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: of photons that all added up to the same number 550 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 1: for the mass of the Higgs, and we thought that 551 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: must be it. Right, It's like you saw the footprint 552 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: of the Higgs boson in these two photons, right, yeah, exactly. 553 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 1: We can't see the Higgs itself. Because I think that's 554 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,360 Speaker 1: one thing that's interesting about this is that you kind 555 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: of have to have an idea of what you're looking for, right. 556 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: You can't just like turn this on and then see 557 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: what happens because there's so much stuff coming out and 558 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 1: it's all probabilistic, So you kind of need to know 559 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: what you're looking for, or you need to know about 560 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: what size of a footprint you're looking for, or what 561 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 1: would the footprint look like, sort of in other to 562 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 1: actually discover these footprints, you just put your finger on. 563 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: A really interesting and sort of hot headed debate in 564 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 1: the field right now, Like a lot of people think 565 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: that you're right that you need to know what you're 566 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,360 Speaker 1: looking for because these signals are subtle and you can't 567 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 1: see things directly, so you need to know like well 568 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 1: how to look for things in order to anticipate them 569 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 1: and discover them. And that's probably true for really subtle 570 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 1: signals like the Higgs boson. If we didn't know to 571 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: look for the Higgs boson, we might not have seen it, 572 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: because in the end, the signal is kind of subtle. 573 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 1: It's like this little bump. There's lots of other ways 574 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: to make the same signature that we see for the Higgs. 575 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: But other people i e. Me and some folks that 576 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: work with I think it might be possible to discover 577 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: something we don't anticipate. That not knowing what's out there 578 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that we can't see it. We need to 579 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: be sort of more clever about how to look for 580 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: things to be ready for surprises. But we think that 581 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: using some new techniques from like machine learning and anomaly detection, 582 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,400 Speaker 1: it might be possible to figure out if there's something 583 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: new in our data, even if we don't know exactly 584 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: what to look for. But you're right, it's more difficult 585 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: and it would need to be a more obvious signal. 586 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: But I guess what I mean is you sort of 587 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 1: need to know even for something where you're detecting anomalies. 588 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: You sort of need to know what's normal so that 589 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 1: you can tell what's an anomaly. Right, You need to 590 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: have sort of an idea of what you might discover, 591 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: or at least sort of like a good picture, and 592 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: then you can tell if something is off of that 593 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: or different than that. Yes, it's all about understanding what 594 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: the current theory predicts so we can find deviations from it. 595 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: And that's what was exciting, for example, about those muon 596 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: G minus two experiments that were recently done at fer 597 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: Me Lab, is that they had a really detailed prediction 598 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: for what they expected to see when the muon wobbled 599 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,479 Speaker 1: around in a circle, and then they saw something different. 600 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 1: They don't know what it is, and they don't need 601 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: to know what it is, but they know they see 602 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: something different, which requires some new kind of particle. So 603 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: that's an example of how you might see that there 604 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: is something out there new to discover without knowing exactly 605 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: what it is, seeing a deviation from what you expect. 606 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: And so that was the Higgs boson. That was a 607 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: huge deal a while ago, and because it is such 608 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: a fundamental particle in our model of particle physics, right, 609 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: like it's the particle that sort of explains the masses 610 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: of the other particles, and it's sort of in a way, 611 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: sort of holds the universe together. Yeah. Absolutely, And it's 612 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: even more deeply important than that. It completes this longer 613 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: project of bringing together electricity and magnetism and the weak force. 614 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: You know, James Maxwell unified electricity and magnetism more than 615 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: a hundred years ago, and then in the sixties somebody 616 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: else brought together the weak force into a single force, 617 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: the electroweak force, and it's all beautiful and mathematical, but 618 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: didn't really work because it was missing a piece, and 619 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: Higgs Boson was that piece. So finding that tells us 620 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: not just how particles get their mass, but also that 621 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: the weak force and electromagnetism are just two sides of 622 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: the same coin. It's really an incredible triumph. That's like 623 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: over a hundred years of theoretical progress. Yeah, that's pretty cool. 624 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: That's what I tell the Higgs all the time, is 625 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: I tell you complete me. So that's what maybe the 626 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: last fundamental particle that humans have discovered, right, I don't 627 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: think we've found other fundamental particles there or at at 628 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: the head large tender and collider or anywhere, right, and 629 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: we have been looking. We have been looking, and we 630 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: had high hopes, but you're right, we haven't found anything else. 631 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: You know, when we turned on the Large Hadron Collider, 632 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: we were able to explore new energy ranges. Like the 633 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: previous collider went up to two trillion electron volts that's 634 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 1: like two thousand times the energy inside the mass of 635 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: a proton, and the Large Hadron Collider goes up to 636 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: fourteen terra electron volts, so like it's seven times as 637 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: much energy as the old collider, and that means it's 638 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: like seven times the territories, seven times the new menus. 639 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: You know, you're going in and out and you get 640 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: like the secret, secret, secret, secret menus. That's really exciting 641 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: from like an explorational point of view. It's like simultaneously 642 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,479 Speaker 1: landing on seven new Earth like planets and seeing if 643 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: there's life on. There's a huge territory that's that nobody 644 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: had explored before, so the possibilities were huge. We could 645 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: have seen nothing, right, you could be there's just nothing 646 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: there because the only the Higgs boson, or we could 647 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: have seen like a crazy number of particles flying out 648 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: of the machine. Probably not pink elephants, but the possibility 649 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: was that we could have seen dozens of new particles 650 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: that it tells all sorts of crazy stories about the universe. Unfore, 651 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: originally we didn't. All we saw in terms of fundamental 652 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: particles was the Higgs boson. It's almost like you've got 653 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: a bigger table in a way, not just access to 654 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: the bigger many, but it's like you've got a bigger 655 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,719 Speaker 1: table and you told the universe all right, you know, 656 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: surprise me, and it just kind of brought more of 657 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: the same thing. That's right. We went to the all 658 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: you can eat buffet and it just kept serving as 659 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: mac and cheese. You didn't get a Higgs animal style. 660 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: You know, maybe we made a mistake, we filled up 661 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: on bread or something. I don't know what the problem was. 662 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: But we were hoping to find gravitons. There's no like secret, 663 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: secret crap buffet table in the back or anything. If 664 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: it is, it's still a secret because we haven't found it. 665 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: We had lots of ideas also of what we might 666 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: have seen. You know, we might have seen gravitons. We 667 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: don't understand how gravity works is a quantum theory, and 668 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: some people think that every time you feel gravity, it's 669 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: because you're passing little quantum particles back and forth called gravitons. 670 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: And if that is true, there was a chance we 671 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: could have seen those the l h C and we 672 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: looked for them but didn't see them. And there are 673 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: lots of other really fun theories supersymmetry and heavier corks 674 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: and all sorts of weird you leftons. There's no shortage 675 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: of ideas coming from the theoretical community about what we 676 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: might have seen. But of course we didn't see any 677 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: of those either. Right, You had sort of ideas about 678 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: how the universe might work, you know, given all the theory, 679 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: and so you needed some experimental confirmation to make those 680 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: theories kind of solid, right, like to show that supersymmetry 681 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: was right or plantum gravitational physics was right. You needed 682 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: to find sort of weird new particles in that space 683 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: that we're looking for, but you didn't. Yeah, but we didn't. 684 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: It's just like with the Higgs boson. These things come 685 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: from theoretical motivation, people looking at the theory and saying, 686 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: you know, this would make more sense if we changed 687 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: it in this way, if we added this piece and 688 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: then experimentalists go out and look for and say, well, 689 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: is it there, is your idea corresponding to the real 690 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: structures of the universe, or is it just sort of 691 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: like a nice, pretty bit of math in your head. 692 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: Because there's an important difference, right, We're not just interested 693 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: in exploring the insides of our head. We want to 694 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: know what the structures of the actual universe are, and 695 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: so to do that we need to do these experiments. 696 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: But our job is not just to like go off 697 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: and check the box because some theoretical ideas. I think 698 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: we're also capable of discovering unanticipated stuff, of finding weird 699 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: new stuff out there that no theorist has predicted, that 700 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: nobody anticipated. That blows up all of our ideas about 701 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: the universe. That hasn't happened either, But I hold out hope. Yeah. 702 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: You always talk about the scenario where you do an 703 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: experiment and you look at the data and then you 704 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: see something and you're like, what are that? Like? Which 705 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: many did that one come from? Yes, and that's happened 706 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: in history, right, Like who ordered that is a literal thing. 707 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: Somebody said when they saw that the muan had been discovered, 708 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: because nobody expected the muan to be there. It's not 709 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: something we thought might be on the menu. It's just 710 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: something that God delivered and we're like, huh, I didn't 711 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: order this, it's just sitting here in front of me. 712 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: And so I fantasized about that, you know, sort of 713 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: a scientific way, Like you know, my dream scenario is 714 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: finding something weird that everybody scratches their head over. Because 715 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: you and I talked about on the podcast all the time, 716 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: how we know there are basic things about the universe 717 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: we don't understand, and what we need is a clue, 718 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: something that points us in the right direction to think 719 00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: about new ideas. And so a totally weird, new anticipated 720 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: discovery would be a great clue in that direction. Cool, Well, 721 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: we are standing by for you to discover new fundamental 722 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,240 Speaker 1: particles or to confirm fundamental new theories. But in the meantime, 723 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: the LC has been busy that it has made a 724 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 1: lot of discoveries, and maybe it's found more particles than 725 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,720 Speaker 1: most people think. So let's get into that. But first 726 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 1: let's take another quick break. All right, we're talking about 727 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: the L A C And ordering things off of the 728 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: universe menu at the what the Cosmic Diner I think 729 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 1: that is an actual diner, probably somewhere in America. They 730 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: probably don't serve caviar, though they still higgs Boson animal style. 731 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 1: So we made the big higgs Boson discovery, and we 732 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 1: don't have any sort of thing that fundamental yet since then, 733 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: But the LC has been busy discovering more particles, right, actually, 734 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: a surprisingly large number of new particles. That's right. The 735 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: higgs Boson is like the glamour front person of the 736 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: particle discoveries. But we've been hard at work and we 737 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: found all sorts of crazy stuff out there that you 738 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: probably haven't even heard of unless you listen to this podcast, right, 739 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: that's right. We have talked about a couple of these 740 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: discoveries on the podcast, and so those of you out 741 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: there who follow it might not be surprised. But honestly, 742 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: I was even surprised when I counted up all the discoveries. 743 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: The numbers sort of shocked me. How many particles has 744 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: the l AC discovered? Fifty nine more particles than just 745 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 1: the higgs Boson. WHOA fifty nine. It's a lot of particles. 746 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: There are that many particles. There are that many particles 747 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: exactly because there's other ways to discover particles than finding 748 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,879 Speaker 1: new fundamental particles, We can find new ways to put 749 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 1: the old particles together. Oh I see. These are not 750 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: like fundamental like building blocks of the universe we think, 751 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: but just sort of like when you arrange particles in 752 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: a different way, they sort of become new particles, right, 753 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: They act like a new kind of particle, exactly, Like 754 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 1: the proton is not a fundamental particle, right, it's made 755 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: out of quarks. You put two up corks and a 756 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 1: down cork together and you get a proton. And that's 757 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: really interesting. It's amazing, and the fact that it even 758 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: works is something we don't fully understand because it involves 759 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: is very complex and very powerful force called the strong 760 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 1: nuclear force. You know, quarks have these weird things called colors, 761 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: and they exchange gluons back and forth. It's a crazy system. 762 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 1: And so one thing we can do with the large 763 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: hadron colliders figure out, like, are there other ways to 764 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,840 Speaker 1: combine quirks to make new kinds of particles? Can we 765 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: shake corks together and build out new things like new 766 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: kinds of protons? Maybe? Right? Basically, what you're making like 767 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: new kinds of protons because when the collisions happen. Remember 768 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: we're colliding protons and protons at the Large Hadron Collider. 769 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,320 Speaker 1: But again, protons are not fundamental particles. So what actually 770 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: happens when these protons come near each other is not 771 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,879 Speaker 1: that like one proton smashes into another one and they 772 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: totally annihilate. When you're at that energy, the fact that 773 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,399 Speaker 1: these corks are bound together into a proton, it's sort 774 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 1: of irrelevant because the corks have so much more energy 775 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: individually than the bonds between them, So it's sort of 776 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: like what you're doing is shooting together like a triple 777 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: beam of quarks in one direction and the triple beam 778 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 1: of quirks in the other direction. So then what happens 779 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: when they collide is that the corks themselves are interacting. 780 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 1: Now you have six corks, and you can mix the match, 781 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,840 Speaker 1: and you can make all sorts of weird, crazy stuff, 782 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: And because there's so much energy there, you can even 783 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: pop new corks out of the vacuum and make all 784 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: sorts of new weird combinations. I think it's these combinations 785 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: that really tell you or let you explore or know 786 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,959 Speaker 1: more about the basic particles, right and how they're put together, 787 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 1: Because They all sort of depend on the rules of 788 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: quarks and gluons exactly, and we are trying to understand 789 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 1: those rules. We want to know how quirks push against 790 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: each other, how gluons pull on each other, and it's 791 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 1: something that's very difficult to grapple with. This whole field 792 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 1: of the strong and nuclear force is very difficult because 793 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,439 Speaker 1: the force is so strong, and so it's very hard 794 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 1: to do calculations because things get out of hand very quickly. 795 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,320 Speaker 1: One reason is that the strong force is we eard 796 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: in a really super interesting way. If you take two 797 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: corks and you start to pull them apart, you might 798 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: expect that the strong force would get weaker as they 799 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 1: get further apart from each other. That's the case with gravity, 800 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 1: right like as you get further from the Earth, your 801 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: gravity gets weaker. That's the case with electricity. Like take 802 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 1: two electrons. They will repel each other, but as you 803 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: move them further apart, they start to repel each other 804 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,359 Speaker 1: less and less. The opposite is true with corks. As 805 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: you move them further apart, the force between them get 806 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: stronger and stronger. And that's what makes it really hard 807 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,960 Speaker 1: to do these calculations because you can almost never like 808 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: neglect another particle. In the case of gravity and electromagnetism, 809 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: you can make lots of simplifying assumptions because as things 810 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 1: get far away, you can basically ignore them. You can 811 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 1: never do that with the strong force. As things get 812 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: further away, they become more important. And so these calculations 813 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: are a big mess. They're really really hard to do. So, 814 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 1: as you say, by understanding how these particles are fitting together, 815 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: we're trying to understand what the rules are of how 816 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 1: they fit together, not something we still understand, right. I 817 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,080 Speaker 1: think maybe something that people haven't thought about is that 818 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,799 Speaker 1: quarks can combine in ways that are other than the proton, Right, 819 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:06,759 Speaker 1: isn't that a little weird to think about that? You know, 820 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 1: like course could make protons that which make up you 821 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 1: and me and part of what makes you and me, 822 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 1: but it can also kind of fit together in different ways. 823 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: It is cool, but it's sort of the beauty of 824 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 1: the universe. And we see that same sort of thing 825 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: happening in other places, like the fact that you can 826 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 1: take protons and neutrons and electrons and you can fit 827 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: them to together to make helium or calcium or neon 828 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,239 Speaker 1: or uranium. Those elements are all so totally different, but 829 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 1: they're made of the same building blocks. So there's something 830 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: really deep about the fact that the same building blocks 831 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 1: can be arranged to make completely different things with totally 832 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: different properties. And so the same is true at this 833 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,440 Speaker 1: deeper level that you can take quarks, you can put 834 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 1: them together and make a proton or a neutron, or 835 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,320 Speaker 1: you can do all sorts of other things, like you 836 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: combine just two corks together. That's like a pion is 837 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,920 Speaker 1: made out of just two corks, or a row mason 838 00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: is made out of just two quirks. So these things 839 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:00,920 Speaker 1: are really like let those and you can combine them 840 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: to make all sorts of stuff. The thing is that 841 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,319 Speaker 1: we don't understand exactly how those rules work, So it's 842 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,880 Speaker 1: very hard to predict which combination of quirks fit together 843 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,320 Speaker 1: to make a nice particle, and which combination of quirks 844 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: aren't stable will just like fly apart instantaneously. Really you 845 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 1: can't predict that. You have to kind of look for 846 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,759 Speaker 1: them in a way, right, because you found at least 847 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 1: fifty nine different ways in which quarts can be put together, 848 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: that's right, fifty nine new ways. I mean we have 849 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,360 Speaker 1: lots and lots of ways for quirks to fit together. 850 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 1: There was this period in the early sixties called the 851 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,960 Speaker 1: particle Zoo, and people were building bigger and bigger colliders 852 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 1: and finding new particles all the time. You know, the 853 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 1: pion k on all these particles. These are the particles 854 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 1: that give us the clue about quirks. In the first place, 855 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 1: we discovered all these crazy particles, we didn't understand them, 856 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 1: and then people understood, oh, all these weird new particles 857 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: are built out of the same building blocks. They're all 858 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 1: just built out of these little lego pieces called quarks. 859 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,640 Speaker 1: As as you say, we still don't really quite understand 860 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 1: how to predict what else the quarks can do. So 861 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 1: it's very interesting to find those, to go out and 862 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,240 Speaker 1: actually look for them and see, look, this weird combination works. 863 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,400 Speaker 1: That weird combination works. So that's been a big industry 864 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 1: at the large dron collider is making new combination of 865 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,320 Speaker 1: quirks to help reveal how these particles do fit together, 866 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 1: what the rules are. And I guess maybe what's also 867 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 1: interesting is that these new kinds of arrangements of quirks, 868 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,920 Speaker 1: they're not common, right, like most of the corks together 869 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: that we see our protons and neutrons. But these new 870 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,839 Speaker 1: kinds of other protons and arrangements, they're not common and 871 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,520 Speaker 1: they don't last very long. Right, Yeah, just like the 872 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: Higgs boson and the top corks. These things are not stable. 873 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 1: They don't last for very long. They're a little bit 874 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,400 Speaker 1: more stable and depends exactly than the details. Some of 875 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 1: them might even last, you know, like a million or 876 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,759 Speaker 1: a billion of a second. But you're right, you don't 877 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,839 Speaker 1: find them in nature. You can't like go drill into 878 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:46,880 Speaker 1: the earth to find these things. You have to create 879 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: them in high energy density environments. You have to pour 880 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,240 Speaker 1: energy into one spot, so the quirks have enough energy 881 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,480 Speaker 1: to make these weird massive combinations. And so each of 882 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: these sell you a little bit more about how corks 883 00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,799 Speaker 1: and gluons can come together, which kind of tells you 884 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,880 Speaker 1: more about the rules of the universe. All right, So 885 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,759 Speaker 1: then maybe tell us also besides these composite particles, what 886 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 1: else has the LC been discovering. Yes, so we haven't 887 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 1: found more particles, but what we have done are more 888 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,720 Speaker 1: detailed studies of the particles that we do know. For example, 889 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,839 Speaker 1: we're really interesting questions like exactly how much does the 890 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,480 Speaker 1: top cork way, Like, the top cork is a weird cork, 891 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,399 Speaker 1: it's just like the up cork, except it's much much 892 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,200 Speaker 1: much more massive. It's super duper massive, and we'd like 893 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,680 Speaker 1: to understand exactly how massive is it. It's exact mass 894 00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 1: controls a lot about how things work in particle physics. 895 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,359 Speaker 1: So one thing we're doing is measuring that very very 896 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: precisely to see if the mass that it has makes 897 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,400 Speaker 1: sense with some of our other calculations. So that's an 898 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 1: example of the kind of thing we do. It's like 899 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,880 Speaker 1: a precision study of the particles we do know, so 900 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,440 Speaker 1: that we can anticipate anything weird. We can look for 901 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,640 Speaker 1: deviations and anomalies like we were talking about earlier, right, 902 00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 1: because we have this model of the universe, the standard 903 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: model of stuff and matter, but you know, we think 904 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:03,759 Speaker 1: it's the kind of the right one, but there might 905 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:05,840 Speaker 1: be others, or we we just want to make double 906 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,520 Speaker 1: extra sure that it's the right model of the universe. Yeah, 907 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,480 Speaker 1: I would actually say we're sure it's not the right 908 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,160 Speaker 1: model of the universe. I mean, it works pretty well, 909 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,320 Speaker 1: it's kind of pretty, but we know it's not correct. 910 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,839 Speaker 1: Like there are things about it which just can't be right, 911 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,560 Speaker 1: and we're looking for are the cracks in it? We're 912 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,960 Speaker 1: looking for hints as to that deeper, more fundamental, more 913 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 1: true model. And so one way to do that is 914 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: to say, well, I think there's a new particle out there, 915 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,279 Speaker 1: let's go look and find it. Another way to do 916 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,640 Speaker 1: that is to just test the wazoo out of it 917 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: and say, like, well, let's really see if it's correct. 918 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,920 Speaker 1: Let's see if we can find some deviations. So we 919 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:40,600 Speaker 1: have done stuff like that, and you know, at the 920 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,359 Speaker 1: Large Hadron Collider we talked about in the podcast, once 921 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,239 Speaker 1: they found this weird particle that uses Penguin diagrams and 922 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 1: decays really strangely. Sometimes the decays to muan is more 923 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 1: often than it decays to electrons, which is not what 924 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 1: we expected. And that's a sign that maybe there's some 925 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 1: new heavy particle very briefly appearing and messing things up. 926 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:00,760 Speaker 1: So that's the kind of thing we can do. Instead 927 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,600 Speaker 1: of looking directly for new heavy particles created at the collider, 928 00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,400 Speaker 1: we're looking for like their subtle influence on the particles 929 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,120 Speaker 1: that we do know. We're looking at those cracks. You 930 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,560 Speaker 1: might sort of look into those cracks and find new 931 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,279 Speaker 1: particles there, right exactly. And that's the kind of thing 932 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,040 Speaker 1: that I'm excited about. As you said very intelligently earlier, 933 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,440 Speaker 1: if you want to find something new that you don't expect, 934 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,320 Speaker 1: you need to understand what you do expect very very well. 935 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,839 Speaker 1: And so that's basically what we're doing is fleshing out 936 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: exactly what we expect and double checking that we're seeing 937 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,799 Speaker 1: what we expect. I'm always hoping that we don't see 938 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:30,799 Speaker 1: what we expect, that we see something weird and new 939 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,640 Speaker 1: in the data that we can't explain with our current theory, 940 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,360 Speaker 1: but so far not yet, not yet, but maybe in 941 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 1: the future. So maybe tell us now, what can we 942 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,239 Speaker 1: expect in the future from the l a C. And 943 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,800 Speaker 1: I think part of it is that maybe you're changing 944 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 1: the name due to an upgrade, right, Yeah, Well, we 945 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,040 Speaker 1: are going to be running the l C for like 946 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: another ten years. You know, you pour billions of dollars 947 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,520 Speaker 1: into this machine. You want to get everything you can 948 00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,000 Speaker 1: out of it. So we'll be running the Large hGe 949 00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,640 Speaker 1: On Collider for at least another ten years, and we'll 950 00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,120 Speaker 1: be looking for these really subtle hints like the longer 951 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,319 Speaker 1: you run your collision, and the more you can see 952 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,959 Speaker 1: really really rare things, or the more you can see 953 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:08,239 Speaker 1: very small deviations from what you expected, those alleviations might 954 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,480 Speaker 1: be nice clues that point us in the right direction. 955 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,439 Speaker 1: So we're gonna be doing this for another ten years 956 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,839 Speaker 1: or so really checking out all the details. Likely will 957 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,800 Speaker 1: also discover a bunch more of these new combinations of quarks, 958 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,320 Speaker 1: ways to put them together to make weird stuff that 959 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:26,160 Speaker 1: give us an idea for how quarks and luons work together. 960 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 1: And it's possible that we could discover some new fundamental particles, 961 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,360 Speaker 1: some graviton, or some proof of supersymmetry. I think the 962 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,680 Speaker 1: chances of that really get less and less likely the 963 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,359 Speaker 1: longer we go on without having seen it, because one 964 00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,400 Speaker 1: thing we can't do with the large hage On collider 965 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,520 Speaker 1: is increase the energy. Like the energy is fixed by 966 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,440 Speaker 1: the size of the tunnel and the strength of the magnets, 967 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,320 Speaker 1: so we can run it for a long long time, 968 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 1: but we can't like boost it up to any higher energy. 969 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:53,160 Speaker 1: And that's really I think what we would need to 970 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 1: find a new fundamental particle, a new like really heavy, 971 00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,399 Speaker 1: new kind of particle. But if you do a fine 972 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,719 Speaker 1: one another one. Then that makes it the two fundamental 973 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,680 Speaker 1: particles for the price of one, and that has your 974 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,880 Speaker 1: per particle cost, making it more of a deal. That's right, exactly, 975 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,239 Speaker 1: and we would love to deliver that deal for taxpayers 976 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,640 Speaker 1: around the world. And you talked about changing the name. 977 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,399 Speaker 1: We are actually talking about new versions of the large 978 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,040 Speaker 1: Hadron Collider, and so for example, people are talking about 979 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,760 Speaker 1: the v l h C and the very Large Hadron Collider, 980 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,080 Speaker 1: which really is a thing, but we don't know if 981 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,000 Speaker 1: that's going to be built there where it would be built. 982 00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:28,880 Speaker 1: It's going to cost a lot of money, and so 983 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,600 Speaker 1: there's a lot of politics involved in figuring out who's 984 00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:33,279 Speaker 1: going to pay for that thing and exactly where to 985 00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:34,960 Speaker 1: put it. Right, I think you had a better name 986 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,120 Speaker 1: for it though earlier. You should call it the test 987 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:42,160 Speaker 1: the Wazoo out of it Particle Collider. That's the informal 988 00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,000 Speaker 1: working name on all the documents internally. Yeah, I mean 989 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,920 Speaker 1: you can gain new particles wazoos. The particle was zoo. 990 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,439 Speaker 1: All right. Well, I think we'll stay tuned to see 991 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,560 Speaker 1: what else you discover in the next ten years. And 992 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,520 Speaker 1: I think it was something that a lot of listeners 993 00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:56,960 Speaker 1: might not know, which is pretty cool. It's that you 994 00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,839 Speaker 1: can actually go to the l a C. You know, 995 00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,600 Speaker 1: once things open up, hopefully after this pandemic, that you 996 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:03,120 Speaker 1: can actually go there and they'll give you a tour 997 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,600 Speaker 1: of the facilities, and you can go to their gift 998 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,040 Speaker 1: shop and look around and see scientists at work and 999 00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,799 Speaker 1: eating at the cafeteria. You can buy yourself a Higgs Boson. 1000 00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 1: It's less than ten billion dollars. Diesel caviar there too, 1001 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:18,399 Speaker 1: and T shirts. No caviar, but yes, T shirts. Well, 1002 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,400 Speaker 1: it is in Switzerland, so they might have carrier maybe. 1003 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,040 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of caviar eating in Switzerland. 1004 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,319 Speaker 1: Not that much at certain just chocolate and coffee. Yeah, 1005 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:29,359 Speaker 1: but you can come and visit. There's a really nice 1006 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,239 Speaker 1: science center, so come check it out. It's a beautiful spot. 1007 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,319 Speaker 1: It's also nestled between two sets of mountains and there's 1008 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,880 Speaker 1: fields of sunflowers or if you like skiing, it's right 1009 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,200 Speaker 1: next to the Alps, so it's a gorgeous spot. If 1010 00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,040 Speaker 1: you have the opportunity to visit, I totally encourage you. 1011 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,839 Speaker 1: And we were not at all sponsored by Switzerland or 1012 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,319 Speaker 1: the large Shadrin Collider. Just by listeners like you, who 1013 00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,160 Speaker 1: in the end are the ones footing the bill for 1014 00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,560 Speaker 1: this whole endeavor. Thank you very much everyone for paying 1015 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:57,200 Speaker 1: your taxes. Thank you, Jeff Basins. All right, well that's 1016 00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,279 Speaker 1: pretty cool, so stay tuned and we help you joined that. 1017 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:11,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, See you next time. Thanks for listening, 1018 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,200 Speaker 1: and remember that. Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe is 1019 00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,640 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For More podcast for 1020 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,520 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 1021 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:29,759 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Yeah,