WEBVTT - What to Watch in 2020 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:22.756 Pushkin from Pushkin Industries. This is Deep Background, the show 0:00:22.796 --> 0:00:25.796 where we explored the stories behind the stories in the news. 0:00:26.196 --> 0:00:34.396 I'm Noah Feldman. Ever since the twenty sixteen elections, I've 0:00:34.396 --> 0:00:38.076 been kind of obsessed with the following thought. We tend 0:00:38.116 --> 0:00:41.836 to think that Donald Trump got elected because his base 0:00:42.596 --> 0:00:47.356 of in our imagination, angry middle class or lower middle class, 0:00:47.876 --> 0:00:52.436 dispossessed white voters turned out in big numbers for him. 0:00:52.476 --> 0:00:55.596 But that's only part of the story, because it's also 0:00:55.636 --> 0:00:58.516 true that if you look at people who voted for 0:00:58.636 --> 0:01:02.436 Barack Obama but stayed home instead of showing up to 0:01:02.516 --> 0:01:05.916 vote for Hillary Clinton, fifty one percent of those voters 0:01:06.036 --> 0:01:10.156 were people of color. That's a significant number, and it 0:01:10.196 --> 0:01:12.076 means that we could also frame things a little differently. 0:01:12.116 --> 0:01:14.836 Instead of blaming the Trump voters for getting Trump elected, 0:01:15.156 --> 0:01:18.076 we could simply say, why didn't Hillary Clinton manage to 0:01:18.156 --> 0:01:20.796 appeal to voters of color in the same way that 0:01:20.836 --> 0:01:25.436 Barack Obama did. Now that's a hypothesis and an obsession, 0:01:25.596 --> 0:01:28.836 it's not a full blown theory, and I'm incredibly grateful 0:01:28.956 --> 0:01:31.356 that we have today to discuss this topic with US 0:01:31.436 --> 0:01:35.356 doctor Andre Perry. Andrea is the David M. Rubinstein Fellow 0:01:35.356 --> 0:01:38.836 at the Metropolitan Policy Program at the famous Brookings Institution 0:01:38.876 --> 0:01:43.836 in Washington, d C. He works on race, structural inequality, education, 0:01:43.916 --> 0:01:48.196 economic inclusion, and recently wrote a fantastic and significant article 0:01:48.276 --> 0:01:52.316 called Black Women Are Looking forward to the twenty twenty elections. Andrea, 0:01:52.356 --> 0:01:54.836 thank you so much for joining us. Oh, thanks for 0:01:54.876 --> 0:01:56.916 having me. One of the really profound points I think 0:01:56.916 --> 0:01:59.516 that you make in your research paper about black women 0:01:59.916 --> 0:02:02.076 is that it's not just that black women vote for 0:02:02.116 --> 0:02:05.956 black women or for other black candidates. It's that there's 0:02:05.996 --> 0:02:10.756 an overlap in policy interests between black women running for office, 0:02:11.396 --> 0:02:14.636 some black voters, as well as lots of other progressive 0:02:14.716 --> 0:02:19.636 voters representing different racial backgrounds, different economic backgrounds. I think 0:02:19.636 --> 0:02:21.916 that's a hugely important point that we tend to forget. 0:02:22.476 --> 0:02:24.476 So I want to ask you in light of that point, 0:02:25.636 --> 0:02:27.996 was there a lack of policy for Hillary Clinton? Did 0:02:28.036 --> 0:02:31.436 she not have policies that were sufficiently progressive to match 0:02:31.676 --> 0:02:35.556 African American voters or was it really about personalities which 0:02:35.636 --> 0:02:37.756 was doing the heavy lifting? Or is it both? Somehow 0:02:38.716 --> 0:02:42.716 it's both. Certainly when you look at the candidates who 0:02:43.156 --> 0:02:46.796 are getting elected there and you hear this phrase all 0:02:46.876 --> 0:02:53.116 the time. They're unapologetically black, they will put forth items 0:02:53.156 --> 0:02:58.956 that really fill out a black agenda for community improvement. 0:02:59.276 --> 0:03:04.076 So if you're not explicitly talking about improving or reducing 0:03:04.116 --> 0:03:07.916 the wage gap between black women and white men, or 0:03:08.036 --> 0:03:12.276 black women and and white women, then you're really not 0:03:12.436 --> 0:03:16.756 speaking to the issues. So the court there is racial inequality, 0:03:16.796 --> 0:03:19.996 as you argue in your interpees. Yet racial and equality 0:03:20.276 --> 0:03:24.476 is probably the number one and number two things. And 0:03:24.516 --> 0:03:29.636 there are also issues that white Democrats simply do not raise. 0:03:30.156 --> 0:03:35.196 And so the issue of voting rights are is something 0:03:35.276 --> 0:03:40.356 that black elected officials bring up, but white Democrats or 0:03:40.396 --> 0:03:43.916 Republicans just it doesn't rank is one of the issues 0:03:44.476 --> 0:03:47.436 that they're going to campaign on. And so if you're not, 0:03:47.596 --> 0:03:50.796 why don't Democrats wake up, smell the coffee and realize 0:03:50.796 --> 0:03:54.196 that voting rights is a pretty excellent crucial issue for them, 0:03:54.276 --> 0:03:57.156 especially if they need the votes of black people. Well, 0:03:57.516 --> 0:04:04.476 the privilege of not really understanding that people are actively 0:04:04.596 --> 0:04:07.716 taking your vote away, I mean, I hear all the time, Well, 0:04:08.036 --> 0:04:12.356 there's nothing wrong with getting IDs or having people having 0:04:12.436 --> 0:04:15.996 people bring their IDs to the polls. There's nothing wrong 0:04:15.996 --> 0:04:19.076 with that. That's that's an easy fix and and to 0:04:19.156 --> 0:04:22.076 a certain degree, black folk always catch up to the 0:04:22.116 --> 0:04:26.716 next new rule, but it but to ignore the active 0:04:29.036 --> 0:04:32.916 pursuit to suppress black vote is a privilege that black 0:04:32.956 --> 0:04:38.476 folks just we don't have. And over time, white politicians, 0:04:38.556 --> 0:04:41.596 regardless of party, just ignore that issue. So those are 0:04:41.596 --> 0:04:44.676 the policy issues, and we can talk more about why 0:04:44.676 --> 0:04:47.596 it is that, even if it's purely on the basis 0:04:47.636 --> 0:04:50.916 of self interest, white politicians don't get beyond the fact 0:04:50.956 --> 0:04:52.836 that they don't instinctively think about these things and raise 0:04:52.916 --> 0:04:56.116 them anyway. But that's the policy side. What about the 0:04:56.676 --> 0:04:59.716 politics side? What about the personalities? Do you Is it 0:04:59.796 --> 0:05:02.076 your view that it would have made a difference had 0:05:02.316 --> 0:05:04.676 Hillary Clinton had a person of color on the ticket 0:05:04.676 --> 0:05:07.556 with her. Oh yeah, And I don't know if you remember, 0:05:08.116 --> 0:05:12.516 there were a bunch of memes um enduring the election 0:05:12.596 --> 0:05:17.636 cycle that she would sort of masquerade as being black 0:05:18.116 --> 0:05:20.556 here and there, and it was there was just a 0:05:20.636 --> 0:05:24.716 lack of authenticity of connecting the black voters. And that's true. 0:05:24.756 --> 0:05:29.556 I mean the choosing Tim Caine for instances, you know, um, 0:05:29.876 --> 0:05:33.356 someone who can speak Spanish, um, and you know, the 0:05:33.516 --> 0:05:35.636 in the black and brown communities, we were saying, well, 0:05:35.636 --> 0:05:39.356 why didn't you just pick someone of Latin descent and 0:05:40.156 --> 0:05:45.356 sal ultimate white guy at diversification, I can speak another language, absolutely, 0:05:45.556 --> 0:05:49.116 So using race as a prop is something that she 0:05:49.676 --> 0:05:57.116 was charged doing, um throughout her career and resided absolutely. 0:05:57.196 --> 0:06:00.676 I mean, at some point, you don't do what's politically expedient. 0:06:00.716 --> 0:06:04.316 You got to show what you're about. And um, and 0:06:04.356 --> 0:06:07.156 I you know, and I also believe that the Clinton's 0:06:07.196 --> 0:06:11.156 in general. Remember Bill Clinton was seen described as the 0:06:11.156 --> 0:06:14.196 first black president at some point, but he and he 0:06:14.276 --> 0:06:16.756 clearly wasn't, not in terms of his policies, not in 0:06:16.836 --> 0:06:20.796 terms of just his being um. But they they managed 0:06:20.836 --> 0:06:24.196 to use symbols to show their they're allegis to black 0:06:24.236 --> 0:06:26.196 But that's just not enough. It's interesting when you think 0:06:26.196 --> 0:06:27.756 back to it's a long time ago. No, but when 0:06:27.796 --> 0:06:31.916 people actually said that, what do you think they actually meant? 0:06:33.116 --> 0:06:36.876 I mean, it was that he showed affection for a 0:06:36.916 --> 0:06:40.156 black community and um, it wasn't it that he'd also 0:06:40.236 --> 0:06:43.636 overcome adversity in his own upbringing. Yeah, that that he 0:06:43.796 --> 0:06:47.356 was he was a poor folk. He actually had strong 0:06:47.476 --> 0:06:52.836 ties to to black communities growing up. Um. But that's 0:06:52.916 --> 0:06:56.036 just not enough. There's not enough political policy meet there. 0:06:56.516 --> 0:07:01.196 Um what he remember, more people, um went to prison 0:07:01.436 --> 0:07:04.596 under his watch, More Black people went to prison under 0:07:04.876 --> 0:07:08.756 his watch. A little fair about that, though. I mean, so, 0:07:08.796 --> 0:07:12.556 I'm impressed by James Foreman Junior's recent prize winning book 0:07:12.596 --> 0:07:15.556 where he says, I'm going to oversimplified here, but that 0:07:16.476 --> 0:07:20.636 a significant part of African American leadership at the national 0:07:20.756 --> 0:07:25.996 level actually supported some of the crime reform stuff that 0:07:26.076 --> 0:07:29.996 Bill Clinton signed that led to many many young African 0:07:29.996 --> 0:07:35.796 American men being incarcerated. You know, black folk are we've 0:07:35.796 --> 0:07:39.356 internalized this narrative that we are broken. I often say, 0:07:39.356 --> 0:07:42.996 there's nothing wrong with black people that ending racism can't solve. 0:07:43.476 --> 0:07:47.356 That we are We're constantly blaming ourselves for the problem. 0:07:47.716 --> 0:07:50.476 In terms of voting, we say, well, we don't vote, 0:07:50.836 --> 0:07:54.836 even though our voting record has been at all time 0:07:54.956 --> 0:07:58.756 high than in at least in the last eight to 0:07:58.836 --> 0:08:03.596 ten years. Um. But we also internalize this notion that 0:08:03.996 --> 0:08:08.356 if we can only do better amongst ourselves, then um, 0:08:08.636 --> 0:08:12.476 we we will get our just desserts. And UM, we 0:08:12.556 --> 0:08:17.316 don't necessarily deserve these policies until we get our house 0:08:17.396 --> 0:08:20.716 in order. And that's just not And that's no different 0:08:20.716 --> 0:08:24.796 than when I hear politicians telling kids to pull their 0:08:24.916 --> 0:08:27.156 pants up and and as if that's going to get 0:08:27.236 --> 0:08:31.516 them into to Harvard. You know that the bill cosby 0:08:31.636 --> 0:08:36.236 rhetoric that absolutely so. Um. Yes, there are lots of 0:08:36.356 --> 0:08:39.956 black folk who supported the crime bill and a lot 0:08:39.996 --> 0:08:45.956 of other policies that Democrats um endorse essentially to buy 0:08:46.036 --> 0:08:52.796 favor with white um sort of right leaning Republicans. But 0:08:52.876 --> 0:08:56.676 at the end of the day, we compromise our policy 0:08:57.516 --> 0:09:00.596 principles in the process and just that's just not a 0:09:00.636 --> 0:09:03.596 way to go. Andrew, you mentioned impediments to voting, and 0:09:03.996 --> 0:09:05.796 you know, as we work our way to talking about 0:09:06.396 --> 0:09:09.756 twenty twenty, I think this is a hugely significant issue 0:09:09.796 --> 0:09:12.236 and I want to get your thoughts about it. One 0:09:12.276 --> 0:09:15.916 statistic that strikes me as very important is that if 0:09:15.916 --> 0:09:23.836 you control for socioeconomic status, primarily poverty, African Americans actually 0:09:23.956 --> 0:09:28.156 vote at a slightly higher rate than their white counterparts. 0:09:30.076 --> 0:09:34.756 That said, like other poor people, African Americans who are 0:09:34.796 --> 0:09:40.676 poorer don't have fantastic turnout records. What do you see 0:09:40.676 --> 0:09:43.676 as the primary impediments. I mean, you've mentioned voter id laws, 0:09:43.716 --> 0:09:46.716 but those are relatively new innovation. What do you see 0:09:46.716 --> 0:09:51.516 as the genuine impediments to getting out the vote. Wow. One, 0:09:51.276 --> 0:09:57.036 the criminal justice system has really suppressed blackmail votes. And 0:09:57.076 --> 0:10:00.756 when you look at states, the gender differences in actual 0:10:00.916 --> 0:10:05.476 numbers in the actual different districts is enormous. So you 0:10:05.756 --> 0:10:10.956 can have in terms of actually lgible voters differences of 0:10:11.236 --> 0:10:16.716 eleven twelve UM in some cases fifteen percent UM. Birmingham, 0:10:16.756 --> 0:10:21.556 for instance, there's a close to eleven point difference between 0:10:21.596 --> 0:10:25.116 eligible black male and black female. So and and that's 0:10:25.276 --> 0:10:28.596 large fell in disenfranchisement or people still presently in cars 0:10:28.676 --> 0:10:33.236 rader both that both, but it's even more than it 0:10:33.356 --> 0:10:38.596 just creates a layer of suppression um that you know, 0:10:38.716 --> 0:10:43.996 voter id laws and um um, changing the days of 0:10:44.396 --> 0:10:48.156 or um or having early voting or not having earling voting. 0:10:48.196 --> 0:10:52.036 Those things matter. But there are some substantive issues around 0:10:52.036 --> 0:10:57.676 criminal justice, around racial violence and policing. Remember, there are 0:10:57.876 --> 0:11:03.276 there's still intimidation tactics that occur all throughout the country. 0:11:03.516 --> 0:11:07.116 There were attempts to suppress the youth vote UM this 0:11:07.196 --> 0:11:12.356 past election cycle, and so folks are intimidate and there's 0:11:12.396 --> 0:11:16.676 some parallels there with our brown counterparts, so our Latin 0:11:16.796 --> 0:11:24.636 X Latino population. The talk about immigration overall will have 0:11:25.196 --> 0:11:29.276 a suppression effect on voters. There's a reason why many 0:11:30.356 --> 0:11:35.076 of our brown counterparts are not voting. It's not because 0:11:35.156 --> 0:11:38.796 they don't want to, or they're too lazy, or they're disinterested. 0:11:39.596 --> 0:11:44.676 But suppression is real, and intimidation tactics are some of 0:11:44.716 --> 0:11:49.636 the primary impediments for folks getting out to vote. So 0:11:49.756 --> 0:11:52.436 one thing that I hear an older generation of white 0:11:52.476 --> 0:11:56.276 liberals saying a lot around the suppression question is there's 0:11:56.276 --> 0:11:59.756 no question that there's suppression. But look how brutal the 0:11:59.756 --> 0:12:04.716 suppression was under the era of segregation, and yet civil 0:12:04.796 --> 0:12:08.956 rights marchers bravely marched and fought and in some cases 0:12:09.116 --> 0:12:12.396 even died for the right to vote. And then that 0:12:12.436 --> 0:12:14.876 older generation of liberals who lived through that, especially white 0:12:14.876 --> 0:12:17.116 liberals who live through there, but sometimes African American liberals 0:12:17.156 --> 0:12:20.796 as well, say, well, that was suppression, and their proper 0:12:20.836 --> 0:12:26.236 response to suppression is activism rather than allowing oneself to 0:12:26.276 --> 0:12:30.196 be intimidated. You know, I often find myself in these 0:12:30.236 --> 0:12:33.636 intergenerational conversations, and I may imagine, maybe you do too. 0:12:33.916 --> 0:12:36.716 What do you say when the older generation makes that argument, 0:12:37.596 --> 0:12:40.756 I think that they're not really not. They don't have 0:12:40.796 --> 0:12:44.836 a pulse of the energy that youth vote, particularly younger 0:12:44.876 --> 0:12:50.756 people are bringing to elections. After Parkland, for instance, the 0:12:50.796 --> 0:12:54.716 youth spoke not only with their votes, but they hit 0:12:54.756 --> 0:12:57.916 the streets marching and many of them are were too 0:12:57.956 --> 0:13:02.796 young to vote. But youth are always latching onto movements 0:13:02.796 --> 0:13:05.516 and trying to teach the rest of us where to go. 0:13:05.596 --> 0:13:09.716 The Black Lives Matter movement, for instance, really spoke to 0:13:09.836 --> 0:13:13.516 what youth want. UM are elected officials to address. But 0:13:13.596 --> 0:13:16.476 the problem is, and this goes back to our earlier conversation, 0:13:17.276 --> 0:13:21.436 is that many elected officials simply don't put up policy 0:13:21.476 --> 0:13:25.476 proposals that match the energy of young people now. UM. 0:13:26.196 --> 0:13:29.396 Back in the day, there was much more alignment between 0:13:29.796 --> 0:13:34.156 the civil rights leaders of that time and their deployment 0:13:34.236 --> 0:13:38.836 of youth to address these issues, and by and large, 0:13:39.876 --> 0:13:45.236 young and older voters UM definitely aligned on what they 0:13:45.316 --> 0:13:48.756 wanted in terms of an agenda for for Black America. 0:13:49.076 --> 0:13:53.316 There's misalignment today. UM. The middle class, the sort of 0:13:53.556 --> 0:13:56.876 the bougie class, bougie Black folk have very different needs 0:13:57.356 --> 0:14:02.876 than low income Black Americans. There's a lot of divergence 0:14:03.196 --> 0:14:07.756 in terms of interest and so until what's an example, 0:14:07.796 --> 0:14:11.676 just to conquertise. Oh, I mean criminal justice reform. I 0:14:11.676 --> 0:14:17.316 mean you still hear older Americans blame black youth for 0:14:17.636 --> 0:14:23.276 crime industry. I mean, how often after a police killing 0:14:23.316 --> 0:14:27.676 of a young man you will hear older or older 0:14:27.996 --> 0:14:30.796 or elders say, well, what did that boy do to 0:14:30.876 --> 0:14:36.236 get shot? I mean there's still this um, this disbelief 0:14:36.996 --> 0:14:41.276 that black boys are that we have to be perfect 0:14:41.596 --> 0:14:44.756 in order to get justice. And but for a whole 0:14:44.796 --> 0:14:50.276 slew of younger voters, they they want quality policing, no 0:14:50.516 --> 0:14:56.236 questions asked, and until our politicians recognize that. And that's 0:14:56.236 --> 0:14:59.956 why I think this new wave of elected officials, what 0:15:00.036 --> 0:15:06.596 they bring, they're actually um listening to low income voters 0:15:06.636 --> 0:15:10.316 and responding um and and they're getting a response. And 0:15:10.596 --> 0:15:12.596 that's in terms of votes. So let's talk about that, 0:15:12.596 --> 0:15:15.556 that new way that you wrote about. So interestingly, so 0:15:16.276 --> 0:15:20.396 four more African American women represented in Congress than before 0:15:20.436 --> 0:15:24.556 the twenty eighteen elections, that's a very marked and measurable improvement. 0:15:25.276 --> 0:15:28.396 The candidates who ran for office successfully who were, as 0:15:28.396 --> 0:15:31.916 you put it, unapologetically black, did they do what you 0:15:31.916 --> 0:15:35.316 your playbook says. Did they emphasize the racial inequality in 0:15:35.316 --> 0:15:38.076 the wage gap and voting rights. Is that were those 0:15:38.116 --> 0:15:41.836 the issues that they made front and center in their races. Oh? Absolutely, 0:15:41.956 --> 0:15:47.156 I mean everyone from Lauren Underwood to going into some 0:15:47.196 --> 0:15:50.636 of the city races of the path like London Breed. 0:15:51.116 --> 0:15:54.636 And then you have you know, johnnah Hayes and Georgia 0:15:54.756 --> 0:15:57.556 dealing with criminal jos they you know, and these are 0:15:57.596 --> 0:16:01.836 women that in many cases are not in majority black districts. 0:16:02.276 --> 0:16:05.436 Typically the blueprint to get elected is to run in 0:16:05.436 --> 0:16:09.756 a majority black place and you had numbers on your side. 0:16:09.796 --> 0:16:13.836 You mobilize the churches, you mobilize your social organizations, you 0:16:13.876 --> 0:16:16.996 get elected. Now what you're seeing in a lot of 0:16:17.036 --> 0:16:22.316 cases are women able to use their social networks that 0:16:22.396 --> 0:16:27.876 I mean their sorority affiliations, their their church membership and 0:16:28.036 --> 0:16:34.676 run on actual issues healthcare, education, um criminal justice, and 0:16:35.076 --> 0:16:40.436 young people in particular respond more to issues rather than race. 0:16:40.956 --> 0:16:45.556 And so if you can strike a chord on an issue, 0:16:45.676 --> 0:16:49.836 you can actually get a great cross section of the population. 0:16:49.916 --> 0:16:54.596 And that's what's happening across the country. That's why, um 0:16:55.116 --> 0:16:59.996 the you see the most diverse Congress in our history, 0:17:00.796 --> 0:17:05.916 because they're actually speaking to issues and authentically addressing the 0:17:05.956 --> 0:17:09.436 needs of people of color. That's tremendously optimistic. Fact, it's 0:17:09.436 --> 0:17:11.836 one of the more optimistic things I've heard on the topic. 0:17:12.116 --> 0:17:14.676 They're always downsides in life. So without you know, without 0:17:14.716 --> 0:17:16.916 being a bummer, what are the downsides? What are the 0:17:17.036 --> 0:17:21.636 risks that an African American candidate runs when she really 0:17:21.716 --> 0:17:27.116 needs the median white voter and she's leading with issues 0:17:27.156 --> 0:17:29.916 like racial inequality and voting rates, which, as you point out, 0:17:30.196 --> 0:17:33.916 aren't very salient for most whites. Well, but this is 0:17:33.956 --> 0:17:37.876 where I get frustrated when you hear the rhetoric of 0:17:38.796 --> 0:17:43.916 the Democrats are not ready for these big ideas. But 0:17:44.036 --> 0:17:48.156 in fact, when you're talking about healthcare, when you're talking 0:17:48.196 --> 0:17:52.116 about a crime bill that was just passed, and recently 0:17:52.876 --> 0:17:57.916 people have now an appetite for free college and universal 0:17:58.716 --> 0:18:05.236 early child childhood education. Big ideas are mattering now. And 0:18:05.556 --> 0:18:09.236 this goes across party and Alabama. Alabama has won of 0:18:09.276 --> 0:18:13.796 the most robust preschool programs in the country. UM. And 0:18:13.836 --> 0:18:18.276 so these issues, these big ideas, UM people are are 0:18:18.596 --> 0:18:22.836 hearing them. And and it's okay to put forth issues 0:18:22.876 --> 0:18:26.756 around race and justice because if one if you don't, 0:18:26.836 --> 0:18:30.396 you're going to negate um black people from your base 0:18:30.436 --> 0:18:32.636 and if you're a Democrat, there's no way you can 0:18:32.676 --> 0:18:36.476 really win without um, black folk coming out, not just 0:18:36.516 --> 0:18:38.836 in terms of numbers just and then just in terms 0:18:38.876 --> 0:18:43.836 of mobilizing people in various states. UM. But if you're smart, um, 0:18:43.916 --> 0:18:47.436 you can show that you can have a big idea 0:18:47.676 --> 0:18:52.116 that that shows that we're all in this together. For instance, 0:18:52.116 --> 0:18:56.276 the voting right stuff is it's this key to a 0:18:56.756 --> 0:18:59.916 to a democracy. If you do not have a right 0:18:59.996 --> 0:19:03.796 to vote, UM, then you're really not a person in 0:19:03.876 --> 0:19:08.716 a democratic society you don't have UM, you're not a 0:19:08.756 --> 0:19:11.796 member if you don't have a vote. So that's something 0:19:12.276 --> 0:19:15.916 that I think Democrats should embase. But you rarely hear 0:19:16.036 --> 0:19:19.036 things like universal voting. So look at looking forward to 0:19:19.076 --> 0:19:21.196 twenty twenty. I mean, somebody is listening. Because if you 0:19:21.236 --> 0:19:24.276 look at HR one, the you know, the bill that 0:19:25.156 --> 0:19:29.076 the first bill adopted by introduced and then will eventually 0:19:29.116 --> 0:19:32.956 be adopted by the Democratic House of Representatives. Not that 0:19:32.956 --> 0:19:35.156 that's going to get signed by Donald Trump or necessarily 0:19:35.196 --> 0:19:38.316 passed the Senate, but nevertheless an important symbolic document. It 0:19:38.356 --> 0:19:41.036 actually does make voting rights pretty significant. It even goes 0:19:41.036 --> 0:19:44.476 so far as to recommend that voting voting day be 0:19:44.556 --> 0:19:46.996 made of federal holiday so that you can show up 0:19:47.356 --> 0:19:50.476 and vote. So that does reflect somebody in the Democratic 0:19:50.476 --> 0:19:53.516 Party is hearing your message and that and that would 0:19:53.636 --> 0:19:57.836 not have come up if black women would not have 0:19:57.916 --> 0:20:01.636 brought it up. And chiefly Stacy Abrams of Georgia, who 0:20:01.676 --> 0:20:05.516 did not win the governorship there Um, she has taken 0:20:05.556 --> 0:20:10.876 that on um, that's her mantle and Democrats need to 0:20:11.716 --> 0:20:14.076 get on board and not just to use her as 0:20:14.076 --> 0:20:17.876 a prop, because this is the danger that Andrew Gillum 0:20:17.876 --> 0:20:22.796 and Stacy Abrams that they're near, they're near close wins 0:20:23.836 --> 0:20:27.156 will turn into sort of a prop for the party 0:20:27.196 --> 0:20:31.996 that they are talented as maybe a vice presidential candidate, 0:20:32.236 --> 0:20:35.756 or they're they're shuffled around the country to say, look 0:20:35.756 --> 0:20:39.396 who we have on our side. No, you need to 0:20:39.436 --> 0:20:41.716 develop a platform. They need to be a part of 0:20:41.756 --> 0:20:45.876 your platform. Moving into twenty twenty, what do you think 0:20:45.876 --> 0:20:49.516 about this phenomenon of people who narrowly miss and then 0:20:49.676 --> 0:20:52.156 become heroes of the party. I mean, Stacy Abrams is 0:20:52.196 --> 0:20:55.156 one example, but Better A. Rourke is another. You know 0:20:55.196 --> 0:20:58.436 he also his biggest accomplishment thus far is losing by 0:20:58.516 --> 0:21:00.916 not that much to Ted Cruz, but he did lose. 0:21:01.156 --> 0:21:03.676 Do you have an instinct about what that means for 0:21:03.716 --> 0:21:06.756 the Democratic Party? And I'm a little bit skeptical because 0:21:07.756 --> 0:21:11.636 I was fearful that a loss would um translate to 0:21:11.676 --> 0:21:14.596 a lack of investment in the next Stacey Abrams or 0:21:14.756 --> 0:21:18.276 in Stacey Abrams in the future. But UM, you know 0:21:18.556 --> 0:21:22.756 I shouldn't be that cynical. UM. But UM, history has 0:21:22.756 --> 0:21:25.796 shown me if if you don't win in your black 0:21:25.916 --> 0:21:28.396 people tend to forget you very quick. But that doesn't 0:21:28.396 --> 0:21:32.636 seem to be happening. At least that's that creates the 0:21:32.636 --> 0:21:34.836 counter risk that she'll be used as a kind of 0:21:35.076 --> 0:21:37.236 token or a tool. I see. I look at it 0:21:37.236 --> 0:21:40.316 a little bit different than the Doug Jones race in 0:21:40.436 --> 0:21:44.716 Alabama for the special election for the Senate was really telling. 0:21:44.956 --> 0:21:49.196 There wasn't an investment from the DNC until late in 0:21:49.236 --> 0:21:54.876 the game into the grass roots networks that primarily UM 0:21:55.036 --> 0:22:00.276 were in the majority black cities of Birmingham, Montgomery, Immobile 0:22:00.756 --> 0:22:04.076 and UM. It wasn't until they really poured money in 0:22:04.116 --> 0:22:08.356 those places did you see, UM the kind of UM 0:22:08.676 --> 0:22:12.836 voting turn out that that was needed. But in retrospect, 0:22:12.956 --> 0:22:15.396 that could have been a black woman running for Senate 0:22:16.036 --> 0:22:21.956 And will they take the risk in these places like Louisiana, 0:22:22.116 --> 0:22:26.916 like Georgia, like Alabama, where there's a significant percentage of 0:22:27.876 --> 0:22:31.876 black voters, one who can cross over And that's what 0:22:32.036 --> 0:22:36.236 Stacey Abrams has showed. You can cross over and in 0:22:36.436 --> 0:22:39.716 a conservative place. Andrew Gillam, I mean, Florida is a 0:22:39.716 --> 0:22:45.156 conservative places. It's a mixed bag, it's very diverse, but 0:22:45.236 --> 0:22:50.156 you can run unapologetically black. And actually when so the 0:22:50.636 --> 0:22:54.756 challenge for the DNC is will they support a Gillam? 0:22:54.796 --> 0:22:58.556 Will they support a Stacey Abrams a second go round? 0:22:59.636 --> 0:23:03.476 Because I do think you don't want to waste the 0:23:03.556 --> 0:23:08.876 infrastructure that they've built over time and not provide that 0:23:09.156 --> 0:23:11.996 kind of investment again. But as you know, I mean, 0:23:12.836 --> 0:23:16.636 when you have somebody like Joe Biden, it's almost I 0:23:16.636 --> 0:23:20.636 mean in a way, you're going backwards to the safe 0:23:20.676 --> 0:23:22.636 bet and I don't want Well, it's not clear that 0:23:22.636 --> 0:23:24.596 it's so safe. I mean, I think that's exactly what 0:23:24.716 --> 0:23:26.956 we're trying about. Is it safe? You know? And that 0:23:27.116 --> 0:23:29.396 arry Hillary Clinton was safe and she was, you know, 0:23:29.476 --> 0:23:32.836 running against a candidate who had higher negatives than any 0:23:32.876 --> 0:23:38.356 candidate in anybody's memory. And it wasn't safe. That's exactly right. 0:23:38.476 --> 0:23:43.196 But it's in our political dna that somehow a white 0:23:43.236 --> 0:23:47.636 man is going to galvanize black voters won and the 0:23:47.676 --> 0:23:52.196 rest of us because there's this inherent leadership in white men. 0:23:53.156 --> 0:23:56.236 But I mean, that's that's the sort of naive charisma theory. 0:23:56.236 --> 0:23:59.436 But there's also the kind of the cynical political science theory, 0:23:59.476 --> 0:24:02.476 which is that to win the presidency you need swing voters. 0:24:03.156 --> 0:24:05.236 That means you need people who are acceptable on both 0:24:05.236 --> 0:24:07.716 sides of the aisle, and maybe that people imagine that's 0:24:07.716 --> 0:24:11.916 a white man, and then you know, at the margins, right, 0:24:11.956 --> 0:24:14.236 maybe the vice presidential candidate. Then you can think about 0:24:14.276 --> 0:24:17.636 adding some component of diversity. I mean, I think that's 0:24:17.676 --> 0:24:21.236 the old that really is the old way of thinking. Yeah, 0:24:21.276 --> 0:24:22.876 and I and I this thing that's going to be 0:24:22.956 --> 0:24:28.076 more difficult um moving forward as demographic shifts were becoming 0:24:28.156 --> 0:24:32.756 a much more diverse country, and again you have people 0:24:32.796 --> 0:24:36.316 of color who can win in places where they are 0:24:36.356 --> 0:24:39.396 they are truly the minority. You don't need to be 0:24:39.476 --> 0:24:42.156 a member of the majority class to win anymore. So, 0:24:42.316 --> 0:24:46.996 and so that people now see more options and so 0:24:47.196 --> 0:24:51.596 but if you don't present more options. You're you're just 0:24:52.236 --> 0:24:57.436 throttling the enthusiasm for change that sparked a Barack Obama, 0:24:57.556 --> 0:25:02.116 that sparked a Stacey Abram. People want something new, Andrew, 0:25:02.116 --> 0:25:04.756 I'm gonna put it to you bluntly. Can a Democrat 0:25:05.356 --> 0:25:08.356 regain the White House in twenty twenty without a person 0:25:08.396 --> 0:25:11.236 of color on the tip? No? I don't think so. 0:25:12.396 --> 0:25:15.956 I think we've seen over the at least with the 0:25:16.076 --> 0:25:20.996 Hillary example, that fail miserably that at some point you 0:25:21.036 --> 0:25:25.276 need to honor the people of your party. And the 0:25:25.396 --> 0:25:28.636 Democrats are the diverse party, and so if if they 0:25:28.756 --> 0:25:32.196 really want to honor the folks voting for them, they 0:25:32.916 --> 0:25:35.436 must have a person of color. And I'm going to 0:25:35.556 --> 0:25:38.356 go out there on a limus and to say you 0:25:38.476 --> 0:25:43.356 better have a black woman just because the grassroots organizing 0:25:43.516 --> 0:25:49.876 in cities, particularly in the South, the Midwest, the East 0:25:49.916 --> 0:25:54.516 Coast black women that that's the infrastructure. I mean, we 0:25:54.556 --> 0:25:57.996 can talk a little bit more about unions and other 0:25:59.156 --> 0:26:02.916 things that make up that infrastructure, but black women get 0:26:02.956 --> 0:26:07.356 out black votes and white voters. And so if you 0:26:07.476 --> 0:26:10.716 do not, and this day and age, when when black 0:26:10.756 --> 0:26:18.556 women are rising in every category education, um, income, um, professionalism, 0:26:18.636 --> 0:26:22.476 all these different things. They're they're they're they're showing progress 0:26:22.516 --> 0:26:26.396 out um and beyond their black male peers and and 0:26:26.596 --> 0:26:29.956 even to their white male and white female peers to 0:26:29.956 --> 0:26:33.516 to a great degree that that you got to honor 0:26:33.596 --> 0:26:37.076 them at some point. And and I and I see 0:26:37.556 --> 0:26:41.876 um that in policy that you know, yes, black women 0:26:41.956 --> 0:26:45.876 still earn less than than than everyone else all the 0:26:45.916 --> 0:26:50.236 other categories. And um, so there their black women are powerful, 0:26:50.276 --> 0:26:54.196 they just lack protection in terms of policy. And at 0:26:54.196 --> 0:26:56.516 some point, you the way you get protection is to 0:26:56.556 --> 0:26:59.356 put people in office. And now they're at the highest office. 0:26:59.396 --> 0:27:01.036 Now that you're out there on the now that you're 0:27:01.076 --> 0:27:03.076 out there on the limb saying there has to be 0:27:03.116 --> 0:27:05.236 an African American women on the ticket, let me try 0:27:05.276 --> 0:27:07.636 and push you a little further out there. Right now, 0:27:08.236 --> 0:27:11.676 the most significant African American woman in the race is 0:27:11.716 --> 0:27:15.116