WEBVTT - Léa-Anna B.: King George V’s Admirer 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.200 Hello, and welcome to Criminalia. This season, we're exploring the 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:19.320 lives and motivations of some of the most notorious stalkers 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:24.400 throughout history. I'm Maria Tremarqui and I'm Holly Frying, and 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:26.840 today we're talking about a fifty three year old French 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:30.560 woman named leiah Anna b. We only know the initial 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.080 of her last name, which, if I were being strictly French, 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.919 I would say bit uh. And she believed that King 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:41.120 George the Fifth of England had been making romantic gestures 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:46.000 toward her via secret messages. The British royal family and 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:50.080 Buckingham Palace itself both have had their fair share of stalkers. 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:54.280 Before Leia Anna, there was a man who climbed the 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:57.200 fence and wandered around inside the palace before anyone call him. 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.960 This was nearer the same time as we'll be talking about, 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:03.880 and another stalker was caught trying to break into the 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:08.560 diplomat's entrance. Uh. He was caught, But there were many, 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:13.160 many others, and although she wasn't the most famous royal stalker, 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:17.520 Leanna is for sure an interesting type of stalker. Her 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.120 behavior made her a person of interest to the French 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:26.679 psychiatrists Gayton Are, Alfred Leon Marie Declarau. I'm so glad 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:30.000 you had to say that, and not me, as one 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:32.360 of the two of us that speakuse no French potsoever, 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:37.600 thankfully to help us both, he did go by the 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:43.800 shorter names of Gat Clarenbau and just G declaren Beaux. 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.600 He featured lea On in a scientific paper he wrote 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:50.480 about a disorder which came to be called a rodomania, 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:53.600 in which he described the condition more in depth and 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.680 more clearly than it had been described in previous years. 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.720 And you might recognize that word if you listen to 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.440 our Valentine's Special. But even if you didn't, don't worry. 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:04.200 You won't be left out. We're going to get to 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:06.600 the specifics in a bit. We don't want to get 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:08.399 ahead of ourselves, so we're going to talk a little 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:11.480 bit more about leah Anna and her behavior towards the King. 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:16.760 So King George the five was actually not the first 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:20.560 of her obsessions. Her delusions went way back before him. Actually, 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:23.359 we don't know anything about her childhood, what it was 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:25.239 like if she had the men, but we do know 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:29.280 that at one time in her adult history leah Anna 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.400 worked in retail. She was a salesmoman in a dress shop, 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:35.320 but she quit when she became the mistress of a 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:39.800 wealthy upper classman. Their relationship lasted for about eighteen years 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:44.040 until his death in nineteen o seven. Leanna didn't take 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:46.720 very long to become entangled in a new affair, and 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:48.959 this time it was with a man who owned a castle, 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:52.720 so she was, you know, looking for gents who could 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:56.040 take care of her a little bit. In this followed 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:58.600 suit because her new lover bought a house for her 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.160 and actually asked her to come and live there in 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:04.880 that new house with him, and she did. But leia 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.120 Anna became lonely because this was out in the French countryside, 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:10.639 and she just felt a little isolated, and after just 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:16.120 four years their relationship ended. Her delusions were probably already 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:18.919 beginning to develop it this time, and we think that 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:22.880 because in nineteen seventeen, during World War One, she became 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.400 convinced that an American general in a nearby army camp 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:29.919 was madly in love with her. He was not. This 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:33.640 was entirely fabricated on her part, and a few years 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:37.360 later she became convinced that it wasn't the general, but 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.600 rather it was King George the fifth of England who 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:44.680 actually was romantically interested in her. She truly believed he 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.760 was in love with her, but she also believed that 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:52.720 she had, at least initially accidentally failed to notice any 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:56.520 of his interest. And she chided herself for failing to 0:03:56.680 --> 0:04:00.320 notice the knowing glances and the cryptic remarks, because and 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:03.480 the secret signs that she believed had been intended for her, 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:06.320 like a knock on her hotel room door that she 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:09.480 had not answered, but now she understood that that must 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:11.400 have been the King trying to come and see her. 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:15.800 She also believed that she had overlooked the people disguised 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:20.360 as special officers, including an emissary of the King, tourists 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.480 and sailors, who she thought Georgia must have sent to 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:27.280 communicate with her. And because she hadn't noticed these advances, 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:30.840 surely the King now must think she had rejected him. 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:33.880 Because she felt she had missed all of these things, 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:36.800 she was compelled to travel to London to explain to 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:39.760 him in person that she did love him back, and 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:43.240 that compulsion turned into action. She did travel to London. 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.600 She wandered around the gardens and the general vicinity of 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:49.480 Buckingham Palace, trying to catch a glimpse of George and 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:52.279 trying to figure out a way that she could get inside. 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:57.040 Although there was never any sighting or any contact between 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:01.159 the two, there was though, to her, an occasional sign. 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.880 Of course that has air quotes. These were things that 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:08.040 she thought were signs from the King, and that was 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:11.880 in the form of curtains. Leia Anna believed that when 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.239 any curtain in the palace moved, it was George telling 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.480 her that he saw her. The reality is that he 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:21.560 actually probably was not home during this time when she 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.920 was there, and if he was, it said that he 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:28.640 generally tended to enjoy spending time on his hobbies, which 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:31.839 were stamp collecting and game shooting, and wasn't really spending 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:34.160 a great deal of time gazing out of windows, you know, 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:41.919 dusting the curtains, picking out um. Yeah. So she spent 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:46.400 thousands of Frank's on this adventure and eventually returned to 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:50.200 Paris having never actually seen the King in person, not 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:54.040 even through a window. While traveling back home in December, 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.360 she was agitated. She stopped two police officers on the 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:00.960 train platform to tell them that she was being followed, 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.440 and other passengers have been laughing at her, so she 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:08.200 asked for their protection, and she became even more frustrated 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:11.600 and agitated when they seemed confused by her story, she 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:15.560 grew increasingly frantic and she struck them at least one 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.520 of them. I can't actually see how she would hit 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.400 the second one without the first one, but anyway, um, 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:25.400 and then not surprisingly, she was taken into custody. We're 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:27.839 gonna pause for just a moment, and when we come back, 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:31.080 we're going to talk about the condition known as erotomania 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:42.479 and the man who described that condition. Welcome back to Criminalia. 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:50.679 So now let's talk about what happened to Leia Anna 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.560 after she got back to Paris. So, after she was 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.839 taken into custody, Lea Anna was taken to the Infirmary 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.640 Specio that was a psychia crisis center that was also 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:06.279 the headquarters of the emerging French forensic psychiatry field in Paris, 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:08.960 and it was there that she was interviewed by the 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:13.840 psychiatrist we mentioned earlier, Gaet and Gussian, Declaringbeau, we should 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:16.320 take a little side straight, little man or here to 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:19.000 talk a little bit about who he was. He was 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:23.200 born outside of Paris in seventy two, and initially pursued law, 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:26.480 which was the field that much of his family worked in. 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:29.680 So it doesn't it makes sense. He had initially wanted 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:32.840 to be an artist, and he showed promise in clothing design, 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.000 so law was not at all a choice he made 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:38.400 for himself. When law didn't really interest him, which right, 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:42.400 no surprise there, he moved not back to art, but 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:45.800 instead medicine, which he began to study after he had 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:49.880 finished his law education. Yeah, I I have read accounts 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:53.200 that kind of hint that his father was very much like, well, 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:54.840 if you're not going to do law, the only other 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:57.040 option is to be a doctor. You know. I said, 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:59.240 I read the same things, and I was like, no pressure. No, 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.720 he didn't actually start out in psychology though either. So 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:08.000 he first started out spending his time studying the ways 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:12.560 in which aircraft accidents impacted pilots through their recovery and beyond, 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.400 which I thought was fascinating. It is, and that was 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:18.080 specifically like physically, he was not. It was not from 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:20.640 a psychological angle, and that was where his doctor at 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:24.640 work actually focused. But then in nineteen nine he shifted 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.680 focus at last two psychological matters and he kind of 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:29.960 hit the ground running with this. He did a lot 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:33.640 of work in the examination of the causes of hallucinations. 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.520 This was actually a pretty natural flow from his medical 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:40.000 career into this. It was like something that came up 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:42.160 and the things he studied, and he started to just 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:44.800 shift over to that, and that actually led to a 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:48.200 syndrome eventually being named at least in part for him, 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:53.439 which is Kandinskyo syndrome that involves hallucinations and delusions and 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:56.840 often the belief that a force or a person external 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:00.280 to the patient is somehow controlling them. So now you 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.040 can sort of start to see that bridge from that 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:07.200 study of hallucinations into delusions of external control and how 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:09.640 that would have led to his work in cases such 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:14.760 as that of lea On and b As an interesting aside, Declarembeau, 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:17.360 by the way, actually did continue his work in the 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.800 arts throughout his life, just not as his career. He 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:23.760 also integrated them into his work. He used photography and 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:27.559 his work studying psychology. Sometimes he also painted. You can 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:29.640 find his work hanging in a number of museums in 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:31.719 France today if you go looking for it. He was 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:34.320 really intrigued with these linen cloths stuff. Have you seen 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:37.400 these pictures that? Yeah, he did a big photography series 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:39.680 when he was in Morocco. I was trying to remember 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:43.040 if it was Morocco. Yeah, an examination of how like 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:47.360 draped garments functioned in that culture. And they're really really striking. 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:49.880 They look a little ghostly do because you can't see 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:52.080 the faces in any of them, but the actual cloth 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.640 drapes so beautifully. He was a great photographer with what 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:58.679 I've seen. But we're not talking here talking about his 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:03.120 photography or do you're not goo his writings which described erotomania, 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.400 he did a really good description of it, and he 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:09.400 referenced a patient he had met and counseled who was 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:13.640 obsessed with British monarch George the fifth. Leah oughta bey 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.439 and the paper that he wrote, called Les Siko's Passionnel 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:22.199 used case studies that were mainly women, women who all 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:28.480 had a few things in common. They were often unhappy, unemployed, lonely, unmarried, 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:32.599 or divorced, and they had delusions that a person unattainable 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:36.079 in some way such as a high profile position, being famous, 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:39.360 or part of a higher social status, was in love 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.760 with or at least admired them, and the object of 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.840 these obsessions could have been imaginary, could have been someone 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:49.720 who was already deceased, or even someone the obsessed women 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.199 had never met. And of course, having heard what you 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.880 have already, you can see that leah Ana fits this 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:58.840 profile exactly and so for what it's worth. Although one 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:02.880 study has found that sevent of reported cases of a 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:06.599 rotomania are women, men can also have this condition to 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.760 though it's thought to be really underdiagnosed among them. Um 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:14.640 Males tend to be more prevalent in forensic samples because 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.280 men with a rotomania tend to be more violent than 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:19.960 women are, and these statistics are why you hear us 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:23.439 referring throughout the episode to women, not men, as the 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:27.200 ones who believe that they have an admirer. Throughout its history, 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:30.360 the definition of what we know as arotomania has also 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:34.640 changed pretty considerably. Early references to the condition can be 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.719 found in the writings of both Hippocrates and Freud. Of course, 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.480 they were not calling it that. Freud, for what it's 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:44.840 worth less, his heart explain the condition as the body's 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:52.120 defense mechanism to ward off homosexual impulses. Some more cocaine again, 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:56.800 I'm just blessing his heart. Others have suggested that the 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.240 condition might be a person's psychological defense. Again, it's the 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:04.719 disappointment of unrequited love or rejection or the reality of 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.880 a non existent love life. We have come a long 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:11.280 way since then. Until it became known as erotomania, it 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:15.680 was also called things like erotic paranoia, phantom lover syndrome, 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:20.719 and psychotic erotic transference reaction and delusional loving. That last one, 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:24.719 but I love phantom lover syndrome. I do too. I 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.520 think that would be a really good emo bian right. 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:31.120 I know, not for the name of a disease, but right. 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:35.680 It did also have the Clarin Bo's name. Some people 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.760 called it Clarembo syndrome, but that got confused with Kandinski 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:43.640 Claronbow syndrome, so thus it evolved into a rotomania in 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.319 addition to Hollywood just talking about. In the early eighteenth century, 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.800 it was considered a disease triggered by and requited love. 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:53.520 Then in the beginning of the nineteenth century it was 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:58.280 considered to be related to nymphomania or satiriazis getting a 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:00.439 little bit more modern day. By the beginning of the 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.360 twentieth century, the definition had swung back to the same 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:05.640 as the eighteenth century, but this time in the form 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:09.640 of mental illness UM and from the early one century 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:14.320 up through today, aratamania is considered part of a delusional disorder. 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:18.280 It's considered to be a delusional belief of being loved 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.280 by someone else, which seems really simple, but as we've 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.760 been talking about, not quite so simple. It has three 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:30.400 phases to it. Hope, resentment, and grudge. Doesn't sound fun 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:35.120 at all. While we consider these very unfun possibilities, we 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:37.320 are going to pause for a minute, and when we return, 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:39.760 we're going to talk about those three stages and what 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:56.400 they really mean and entail. Welcome back to criminalia. We're 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.920 gonna talk now about how many cases of obsession or 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.800 stalking can be linked to arotomania, although the two don't 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:08.920 necessarily go hand in hand. So the onset of arotomania 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.160 is typically sudden, but the course of the actual delusions 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.720 that they take in arotomania is chronic, So in mild 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:19.560 cases this disorder can exist undetected by others for years 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:25.360 until that is those problematic behaviors like calling or sending 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:30.479 gifts or making unannounced house visits and other persistent stalking behaviors. 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:35.600 Once those become apparent, then obviously this condition is detected, 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:40.400 then we need some professional help. Um. So, according to 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:42.680 the research that's out there, When this is happening, the 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:48.080 stalker also known UM as the subject starts out really 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:52.240 optimistic about her chances. She's certain that the object of 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.320 her affection in leah Anna's case, King George the Fifth, 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:58.320 of course UM initiated contact with her by means of 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:01.960 signals and signs left only for her to understand, remember 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.080 the curtains in the palace, of course. And in these cases, 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:09.800 the subject has rationalized why the object of their affections 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:14.120 cannot possibly openly declare their reciprocal love. And that's usually 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.320 because they're in a high profile position of being the 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.560 King of England or something else like someone being famous, 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:22.920 so they can't possibly say that they love you, right. 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:27.200 And with these delusions, the object of the subjects infatuation 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.800 is believed by the subject to be communicating their love 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.720 with subtle methods. This can be something as simple as 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:39.440 a body posture changing or the arrangement of household objects 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:44.040 such as curtains, license plates on cars from specific states, 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.280 which would take a lot of maneuvering to use that 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:50.440 as a communication device. Hey, it could happen, I'm sure. 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:55.520 And also just other innocuous acts that the subject becomes 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:59.680 certain are meant to be interpreted by them as amorous overtures. 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.200 And if the object is a public figure, the clues 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:06.280 can even come through different means such as like through 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:10.680 the media. To be clear, this delusion is actually about 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:16.600 feeling intensely loved, not about loving, and someone who is 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:21.520 experiencing erotomania like leah Anna, desires and seeks out contact 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.200 with the victim, also known as the object. So we 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:26.680 have the subject in the object in these instances through 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:30.920 unwanted behaviors like we talked about earlier. And denial, of course, 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:33.640 is a pretty big factor with this disorder, and this 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.520 comes into play when the stalker cannot accept the fact 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.840 that the object might not be interested in them. It 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.680 also doesn't seem to make a difference if the object 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:47.040 of their affection is married or otherwise committed, because after all, 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:50.040 in the case of a woman's stalker using that as 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.800 the example, she will believe that they are in love 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:57.200 with her and only her. But when her advances are 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.880 continually rebuffed or ignored. After all, too the love object, 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:03.120 because we have been calling it, she is a stranger. 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.800 At this point, her demeanor can turn spiteful. Now we're 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:12.280 in the grudge or the revenge phase, the final act, 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:16.720 and it's an important turn in the safety of the 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:20.520 victim when they don't declare their love for the stalker, 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:24.000 regardless of how insistent the stalker is. The stalker in 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:28.440 turn starts to feel humiliated, and they may at this 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:32.240 point begin to hate their now former object of affection, 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.600 and they may bad mouth them or even become abusive 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:39.640 toward them. Remember Lady Caroline Lamb and her smear campaign 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:45.760 against Lord Byron. Who can forget? And they may even 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.600 take revenge on them or on their loved ones. And 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:53.480 the delusions of love can turn into persecutory delusions. So 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.480 persecutory delusions happen when someone in this case our stalker 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.879 believes others in this case the victim, are out to 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:04.240 harm them. But there's no evidence that this is the case. 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:06.639 This is all as we said, it's a delusion. So 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:10.520 erotomania actually is a condition that it could persist for 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.119 a few weeks, but it could persist for a few months. 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.320 In fact, there are cases that have lasted for years. Um. 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:21.000 It can be recurrent, and the person having these delusions 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.120 may move on to a similar delusion about another object 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:28.280 once they've gotten over their previous one. It's a fairly 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:32.240 rare condition, and while we don't actually have numbers on 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:37.280 the exact incidence of erotomania itself, delusional disorders in general 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:42.879 have been reported as approximately fifteen cases per a hundred 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:46.000 thousand per year, and that's with a female to male 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.679 ratio of an estimated three to one. There are actually 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:53.920 two types of arotomania. The first, the primary form, is 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.720 not related to psychiatric illness. The second form is seeing 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:01.119 what a person has a psychiatric illness or suffered from 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:06.760 head trauma, has dementia, might have convulsions, HIV or Cushing's disease, 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:10.160 or they may have abused drugs or alcohol. And it's 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.880 even been seen during pregnancy, pyramenopause, and in women taking 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:16.560 oral birth control. So there are a lot of factors 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:18.800 that might trigger this, a lot, I mean, and a 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:25.320 lot of really varying um. So for those with erotomania, 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:29.120 the prognosis you might be wondering. Like many other health conditions, 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:32.879 it just differs from person to person um still today, 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.680 even though we're talking about this since you know centuries, 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:41.840 the right treatment is not completely understood, but it does 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:45.080 often include a variety of these things. It will include 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:51.159 antipsychotics along with electro convulsive therapy, as well as supportive psychotherapy, 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:56.960 family therapy, social and environmental interventions, and risk management strategies. 0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:01.760 So treating any underlying men mental health conditions such as 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:06.280 schizophrenia with paranoia, which is a common co condition, is 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:11.080 also beneficial. Now, all of this discussion of becoming obsessed 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:13.080 with a person out of one's reach may have you 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:17.000 thinking about your celebrity crush and wondering like, do do 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:21.560 I have arotomania? I think everybody's wondering now, right now, 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:26.680 right rest easy. Probably not we mentioned the statistics. It 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:29.560 is totally normal to find people in the public eye 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:33.240 appealing and perhaps even fantasize about them. The line, of course, 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:36.880 gets crossed when those thoughts manifest in behaviors that impact 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.880 your daily life and cross obvious boundaries of privacy and security. 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:44.359 Go ahead and keep thinking about whatever actor actress tickles 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:47.040 your fancy exactly maybe just don't leave little gifts on 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:53.000 their doorstep, don't do anything. So that is our story 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:56.119 about lie Anna, and we're gonna move on to Holly 0:20:56.240 --> 0:21:00.560 now our drink to honor her right, So the chaser 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:05.680 today you may have gotten the inkling that Really what 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:10.480 this is about. I love when you make yourself laugh before, 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:17.159 because I'm so completely um, you know, transparent. Really this 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:20.879 is about me being fascinated with the story of gas. 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:26.200 I specifically did not introduce the end of his life 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:30.360 because that's a very sad story. Yes, but I thought 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:32.680 I would do a drink more in honor of him, 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:36.720 and it is called Ciccos passionel. So I wanted to 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:41.240 do something that is yummy and almost teeters on the 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:44.040 verge of being a little overbearing to match up with 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:48.040 the disorder. I also, in an effort to kind of 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:52.280 include this idea that someone believes that it is love, 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:55.240 to also make it a little sweet. It's actually quite 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:58.080 sweet because it starts with two ounces of red vermouse, 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:01.760 so you're staying its own darting in phase one of man, 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:08.840 and then you're gonna add an ounce of cherry liqueur. 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:12.760 You could see this is already kind of intense toss 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:18.120 on top of that a dash of cherry bitters. Right, 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:21.120 if you were to sip this, you would go, wow, 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:23.760 that's a lot. And so at this point you're gonna 0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:26.639 top it off with soda. Four to five ounces of soda. 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:28.560 You can use soda water if you want to keep 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:30.639 it sweet, you can go with the ginger ale option, 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:34.680 or any kind of clear sparkling soda, whether it's sweetened 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:36.600 or not. I love to put ginger ale in everything. 0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:39.320 I just love ginger ale. For this one, that was 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:42.320 my favorite variation of them. I will tell you I 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:45.440 also toyed with adding in a little bit of a 0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:48.680 berry colored syrup here. I'm just gonna say, don't be 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:55.360 like me, kids, it is too much. It definitely crosses 0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:58.280 the line into cough syrup. Which, while it's kind of 0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:02.440 a good representative of how this behavior crosses the line, 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:04.280 it's not something you really want to drink. It's the 0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:09.000 curtains where is right. Also toy with the amount of 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:11.080 soda or ginger aal that you put in there. I 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:14.040 mentioned like four to five ounces. You can go lower 0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:16.200 than that if you like more punched to the flavor 0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:17.840 of the drink, or you can go more than that 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:19.280 if you want it to be a little bit of 0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:21.760 a softer, more subtle thing. It's kind of one of 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:25.439 those things that you can tell we're in winter because 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:30.320 it feels like a springtime drink. Clearly, I'm I'm yearning 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:34.960 for warmer days even though it's not that cold. But yeah, 0:23:35.119 --> 0:23:39.520 so that is SCO's passionnel because who doesn't want to 0:23:39.600 --> 0:23:42.560 drink with a French name. I know, right, I won't 0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:45.600 be able to say it properly all anglicize the whole thing, 0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:51.159 but you can just call it erotomania. But it is 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:53.399 a tasty little treat. And like I said, once I 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:55.960 figured out that even out and I stopped trying to 0:23:56.640 --> 0:24:00.200 force a berry flavored syrup into the mix, it immediately 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:03.080 got better. Play with your drinks. It's fun. I'm trying 0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:06.840 to also just like find more ways that I enjoy vermouth, 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:08.600 because it's something that I've always had in my head 0:24:08.640 --> 0:24:10.600 that I don't like. But then I will make drinks 0:24:10.640 --> 0:24:12.240 with it and be like, oh, this is lovely. That 0:24:12.400 --> 0:24:14.119 was kind of a driver in the midst of this 0:24:14.520 --> 0:24:17.760 figure out how to love vermouth and how to bring 0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:21.000 out the parts of it that appealed to my palette. Uh, 0:24:21.240 --> 0:24:23.919 thank you so much for spending this time with us 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:27.840 talking about siccos Paso and other things and the ways 0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:33.720 that our desires can manifest in unhealthy ways. Yeah, and 0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:35.840 we will see you right back here next week for 0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:40.440 more unhealthy desires manifesting in ways that are not delightful, always, 0:24:41.040 --> 0:24:51.600 week after week. Criminalia is a production of Shonda land 0:24:51.600 --> 0:24:55.160 Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts 0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:58.000