WEBVTT - The Death of Cooper Harris : Part 2 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.279 The case being discussed in the next couple of episodes 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:07.840 of Sworn was an emotional case. It was a horrific case. 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:12.520 It was a highly publicized and emotional case. But the 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:16.640 purpose of this podcast is not to relitigate guilt or innocence, 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:20.200 and nothing that I say should be interpreted as an 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:24.080 expression of my opinion about the guilt or innocence of anybody. 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:28.159 Neither I nor this podcast is intended to relitigate the 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:31.680 issues at trial. The jury has spoken. This is about 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:35.080 what the case looks like from the inside looking out. 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:39.360 The case was extensively litigated by very good lawyers on 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:42.640 both sides. A jury reached a verdict, and it's not 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:46.200 our place to relitigate those issues. But we do want 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:50.080 to bring you inside the case for an insider's look 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:53.120 at the case of the State of Georgia versus Justin 0:00:53.479 --> 0:01:04.240 Ross Harris. Place your left hand on the bay of 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:06.720 Bible and raise your right hand and repeat after me, 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:12.039 I you solemnly swear the jury trying it. Defendant not 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:17.320 scared of continuing this weekend that ferguson and around the country. 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.320 It makes no sense. If it doesn't fit, you must 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.800 equit judge you are the last line of reason in 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:27.200 this case. Every one of us took at all the 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:32.399 spots and we're sworn to uphold the Constitution. From Tenderfoot 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:37.920 TV in Atlanta, this is sworn. I'm your host, Philip Holloway. 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:42.240 The first thing in a jury foleis jury selection. We've 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:46.039 accomplished that each of you has been selected, chosen, and 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:49.960 sworn to serve as a juror in this particular case. 0:01:54.920 --> 0:02:00.360 M last time on sworn we enter is to you 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:04.040 to the Ross Harris hot car death case. A complicated, 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:09.120 an emotional case overrun with media attention to recap. The 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.680 case covers the death of twenty two month old Cooper Harris, 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:16.280 who died of hyperthermia in the back of a sweltering 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:22.040 hot car in Cobb County, Georgia, on June eighth. Later, 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:28.120 justin Ross Harris, Cooper's father, was charged with murder. Media 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:32.840 outlets sprung on the case, broadcasting salacious details of what 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:37.280 was alleged to be Mr Harris's double life, namely his 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.320 sexting with about a half a dozen women, none of 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:44.240 whom were his wife. We already heard from the prosecution, 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:47.720 so today we're going to be hearing from Maddox Killboard, 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:52.200 Justin Ross Harris's defense attorney. But first let's take you 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:57.040 inside the trial the State of Georgia versus Justin Ross Harris. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:04.840 M On October sixteen, the opening statements began for the 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:08.639 State of Georgia versus Justin Ross Harris at the Glenn 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:13.359 County Courthouse in Brentswick, Georgia. The trial would last roughly 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:23.080 five weeks. Pleas gonna see it. The first thing I 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:25.400 want to tell you is that the state is right 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:33.360 about one very important that and that is Ross Harris's response. First, 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:38.440 Charles death. This is Harris's defense attorney, Maddox Kilgore. It's 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:45.800 his fault forty, no doubt about. From the moment he 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:51.000 drove down the road, look back over his shoulder and 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:55.120 caught a glimpse of Cooper in the back, he knew 0:03:55.160 --> 0:04:00.040 what you had done, he knew you'd forgotten him, and 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:04.160 he whipped his car over into a parking lot and 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:10.440 pulled him out, desperately looking into a little boy. And 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:13.280 you're gonna hear that he tried to do CPR. Which 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.040 is gonna hear is that he was too overwhelmed and 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:20.000 he couldn't concentrate, but he never blamed anybody but himself 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:24.640 kind of words. Did he use it? The thing? My god, 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:31.479 what have I done? I killed my boy? I'm so 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:39.400 sorry Cooper, I'm so sorry y And what he did 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:43.760 wasn't willful. Kilgore goes on to prep the jury for 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.560 what they will experience during this trial. He addresses the 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.240 issues that the state will present as evidence against Harris, 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:53.200 especially his sexual exploits. You're going to hear that Ross 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:59.760 used social media apps to exchange very gross and graphic, 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:05.880 filthy sexual talk with people. You're gonna hear about all 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:10.280 kinds of nasty internet chats. You're not gonna hear ever 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.480 molested child. You're not gonna hear he ever had sex 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.200 with anybody under age. He's certainly not going to hear 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.839 the ever forced anybody need to do anything that they 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:22.720 want to do. You're going to hear about infidelity. You 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:27.479 canna hear about adultery, and that is Ross was unfaithful 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:29.560 to his wife, and you're going to hear about that 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:36.359 sexual liaison sometimes in cars. You're going to hear about 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:44.240 very um embarrassing graphic sexual matters and vulgar language. And 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:49.440 he's earned every bit of that shame. But Ross's sex life, 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:58.039 no matter how perverse and nasty and wrong, it doesn't 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.279 have a thing in the world to do with the 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.359 fact that he forgot that little boy. Ross looks stunned 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:08.800 during this trial, pale, uncomfortable, nervously swallowing every few minutes, 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:12.320 very completely under got nothing to do with each other. 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:33.680 I've known you to be a great defense attorney for 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.719 many years, and so is that even even including the 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:38.560 time when you kick my mask and trial when you 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:42.080 were the prosecutor. You you needed to lose that case, 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:45.119 and so I'm okay with that. But h I'm happy 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:46.719 to I'm happy to do this and be part of 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:50.520 this podcast. This is Maddox Kilgore, Justin Ross Harris's lead 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:54.080 defense counsel, and as you can tell, he along with 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.640 Mr Boring, the lead prosecutor, he's a longtime colleague of mine. 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:00.680 He agreed to do an interview for the podcast. I 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.080 asked him how he got involved in this case in 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:08.680 the first place. The morning after Cooper's death, my wife 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:12.920 and I were getting ready for work and the story 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:18.760 came on the news on the television and we both 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:24.280 literally froze. The story was so gripping, you know, a 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:30.440 child found in a car left by the father. All day, 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:34.040 I mean both of us literally just froze and uh, 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:39.000 I had no idea that hours later about a dozen 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:43.960 family members from Tuscaloosa, Alabama would be in my office 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:48.560 to talk about me representing Ross. I had been recommended 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:53.000 by several other lawyers who were associated with the church 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:57.240 that Ross and Leanna went to. Everybody involved was as 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:00.840 devastated as you can imagine. Well, when the family came 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:04.840 into my office, they were like shells. They were physically there, 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:11.720 but they were so distraught and so devastated by Cooper's 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:17.680 death that it was like talking to zombies. They were 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:21.840 that devastated. I went out to the jail for a 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:27.360 first appearance hearing and met Ross several hours later that evening. 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:32.040 He was really the same way. His body was there, 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:37.360 but he he wasn't. It was just just a shell 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:42.520 of human. He was so distraught and so shocked um 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.600 at what he had done. I mean, he left his 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:48.680 child in the car. I would like to point out 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:51.640 that the defense team did a great public service that 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.600 most people really aren't aware of. Sure, they got paid 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:57.960 from public funds to do their sworn duty, which was 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:01.240 to be zealous advocates for the client. But these are 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:04.720 also business owners who took a financial hit because essentially 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:07.040 they had to close down their office during this trial. 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:10.480 They could not take on any new cases. If lawyers 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:14.720 can't take on new cases, their practices suffer severely. But 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.920 these guys have never once complained because they know that 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.880 the justice system would collapse if there isn't a truly 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:27.960 vigorous adversarial process. We were, quite frankly bufuddled. We didn't 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:31.080 understand why he had been arrested and charged with murder. 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:34.080 The more we looked into it and investigated it over 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:36.679 the next couple of weeks, and the more we found 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:38.480 out about it, and the more we talked to Ross 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:42.560 and family members and co workers, we became even more 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:47.600 befuddled why he had why he had been charged. I 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.640 believe that the hardest thing about Maddox's job as Justin 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:55.240 Ross Harris's defense counsel was to fight through the strong 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:59.480 public opinion, the public outrage that so many people felt 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:03.720 towards his client. A great many people publicly perceived him 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:08.360 as a complete monster. Now, Maddox truly believes in harrass 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:12.160 his innocence. There's a difference between Maddox as a human 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:15.720 being and Maddox as a lawyer, and as a human being, 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:18.800 when you feel this way, it's a really hard thing 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:23.319 to deal with. He believed strongly in Harass his actual innocence, 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:26.720 but as his lawyer, he had to be very careful 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.240 with what he presented to the public. How did he 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:32.520 deal with that emotionally as a lawyer, How did he 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:35.880 deal with that emotionally as a human being, as a father, 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.480 as a spouse. How did he deal with this is 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:42.079 something he had to take home with him every single day. 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.599 There was never any question that Ross was responsible for 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:49.360 his child's death. I mean from the very beginning he 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.640 understood that he was responsible. And of course when I 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:56.240 saw him at the jail that very first meeting, in 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:59.840 every subsequent meeting for the next two plus years, he 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:04.600 carried with him that hurt, that burden of that pain 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:09.400 of not just the loss of his little boy, but 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:15.600 the realization that it was by his own hand. What 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:19.560 we do is defend people who were charged with crimes. 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:22.800 And it's rare that someone who has charged with crime 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.120 and that crime is reported. Uh, It's rare that they 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:30.839 would be Um a favored personality in social media. So 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:35.199 we're certainly accustomed to our clients being looked at as 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:39.680 the bad guys and being assumed that they're guilty. But 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:44.440 this case was different. I mean, Ross was absolutely just 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:49.640 slaughtered in social media, in print media, talking heads, on 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:53.440 the television. We realized that he was not guilty of 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:57.280 what he was charged with, and so regardless of what 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:00.920 was being how he was being portrayed aid in media 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:06.640 and social media, it created an enormous amount of anxiety 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:09.719 on our part to try to make sure that he 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:15.080 was not convicted. Sleepless nights, that's that's that's absolutely part 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:18.160 of the job, and in this case, Um, it was 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:22.360 more than two years of sleepless nights and anxiety and 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:26.880 stress over getting ready to defend Ross. The media was 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:29.640 a huge part of this case. There was such an 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:33.360 inundation of media, especially in Cobb County, that it was 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.240 hard not to have an opinion of some sort on 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:40.000 Justin Ross Harris, and even harder not to have a 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:44.000 negative one. When someone's arrested, there's an enormous amount of 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:47.400 information that gets pumped into the public arena, and that 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:51.880 could be on the news television, news, radio, print media, 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:58.520 but more so than ever, social media, Facebook, Twitter, whatever. 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:04.240 And when someone's arrested for a serious case, primarily I'm 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:08.680 talking about cases involving children, they're immediately deemed a monster, 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:13.880 and so you're you're really starting with two strikes against you. 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.880 There is an absolute assumption of guilt in in the 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.839 in the public eye, no doubt about it. This wasn't 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:23.960 entirely the case at first. At first, there was a 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:27.640 tremendous amount of support for Ross Harris. There were go 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:31.559 fund me accounts, public pleased to have the charges dismissed. 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:35.280 And then suddenly all of that took a turn and 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:38.439 a turn for the worst for Mr Harris. The media 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:43.160 started reporting on information that was located in search warrants 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:45.400 or search warrant applications that have been filed by the 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:49.600 Cobb County Police Department. We discovered at the probable cause hearing, 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:55.800 and subsequently when we received recordings of Ross's interview and 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.920 other pieces of evidence, we discovered that there was a 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:04.280 lot of very um false information that was that was 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.520 in those search warrant applications. And once the media reported 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:12.240 that information, then it certainly uh it had its desired effect, 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:16.640 which was to make Uh make Ross look like a killer, 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:19.440 make it look like he had planned Uh to kill 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:25.800 his child. That's when the public perception really turned against him. 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.480 And then, of course that was exacerbated after the probable 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:32.880 cause hearing, where there was a lot of very damning 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:37.680 sounding testimony that came out during that hearing. Of course, 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.560 over the next two years we discovered that a lot 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:44.960 of the testimony was absolutely misleading and faults. But at 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.400 that point, the damage had been done. The public had 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:51.200 already heard exactly what law enforcement wanted them to hear 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:55.000 and um and so we were swimming upstream from there. 0:14:57.480 --> 0:14:59.440 I sat in the courtroom in Cobb County for the 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:02.880 better part of two weeks while we watched the lawyers 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:06.160 and the court do their damned best to try to 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:10.160 find an impartial jury in Cobb County. I think in 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:12.280 the end, it was the right thing to do for 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.480 the case to be moved outside of the Atlanta media market, 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:18.840 because while people have heard about this case, the feelings 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:22.560 were not so strong and so strongly held as the 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:25.480 feelings that we heard expressed by the potential jurors when 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:28.440 they were questioned in Cobb County. Before the case was moved. 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:33.840 Juries are really hard creatures to understand. You do your 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.640 best to try to weed out people that may lean 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.960 one way or may lean another way, may be supportive 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:42.040 of the other side's case, but it's kind of like 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:45.480 reading tea leaves. You really can't quite know until it's 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.280 all over and done with what people are really thinking. 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:52.520 We like to hope that most of the time it 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:55.680 all works out right in the end, but we also 0:15:55.720 --> 0:16:05.760 know that sometimes it doesn't. You sort of have to 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:07.880 pay attention to not getting caught up in the spin 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.520 and looking at what is actually presented at trial. But 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.880 I think for the jury in this case, emotion did 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:16.400 really lead the way because at the end of the day, 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.440 a lot of people just couldn't imagine that somebody could 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:23.160 forget their kid. And in either case, and in any case, 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.200 I think a lot of people thought, even if you 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.400 were distracted, no matter what you were doing, you still 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:31.160 have to pay the price for leaving your kid in 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:34.240 the car. This is Veronica Waters, the reporter from w 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:37.680 s B Radio who we heard from in the last episode. Well, 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.960 you don't reporters don't like anything that's saying. Keep out media. 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.760 The media lawyers were quick to be hired for that 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.720 and argue in court for why the open court process 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:50.080 was a valuable thing. An invaluable thing really for people 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:52.120 to know what was happening, and we shouldn't be shut 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:55.040 out of that. I do understand that the defense was like, 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:57.120 we don't care if they come for the trial once 0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:59.440 we decide to, you know, pick a jury and all 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:01.840 that kind of stuff, but right now we are afraid 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.880 that we're going to taint the jury pool because there 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.320 is so much coverage on this. According to Veronica, there's 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:12.360 two sides to that coin. We had people who were saying, 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:15.960 I get it, I've been distracted, I've forgotten stuff, And 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.400 in quiet moments, there are some people who will actually 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:20.240 tell you I have forgotten my kid in the car. 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:22.760 Didn't happen for eight hours on a summer day, but 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:24.800 I've walked away from the car for X number of 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.480 seconds or minutes and forgotten that I had a kid 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:29.320 in the car. Then you have other people like the 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.040 guy that we first saw the first time that they 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:33.679 tried to pick a jury in Cobb County. And this 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:35.680 guy said, I don't even like subway sandwiches, but I 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:38.400 wouldn't forget my lunch on the seat, you know, let 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:41.960 alone my kid. So a lot of people were super angry. 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:44.480 They were shocked, and they were furious, and they thought 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.720 even if he was distracted, he needed to pay for that. Yes, 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:49.600 you have emotions about this case, and of course we 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:52.840 think it's horrible and you feel as if you sort 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:54.840 of have an opinion about it. But if you had 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.840 to listen to the facts before you made a decision, 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:00.640 could you do that? And I think people are put 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:02.359 in that position. You don't want to say, like, no, 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:04.639 there's no way that I could ever And although we 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:06.760 did have some people say no, there's no way that 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.600 I could ever ignore what I feel about this right now, 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:11.680 but a lot of people said, well, yeah, I guess 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:14.600 I could, because we want to do what we feel 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:16.320 is the right thing, and we don't want to see 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:19.800 seem I think, super closed minded, so we're gonna say, yeah, 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:23.000 I think we could. I think I could maybe sort 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:26.400 of hear everything out before I levy a decision um. 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:28.240 And so we had a lot of people in the 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.320 jury pool who were like that, and the defense carefully 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:32.760 took notes for those three weeks and then said this 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:37.080 is how many we have who have been okayed to 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:41.400 go through for potential striking later and look how many 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:43.720 of them said, I've got an opinion on this case. 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:47.399 You can't force anybody to not be biased basically about 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.639 the case. And they met the standard of whatever that 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:54.000 statute is, that law, and the judge said, okay, we're 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:56.520 moving the trial. So the trial has moved due to 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:58.800 what seemed like the promise of a heavily biased theory. 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.800 Not everyone increased with that motion. Vinnie Politan, the former 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:06.240 prosecutor and eleven Alive anchor who we spoke to last episode, 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:10.720 shared his thoughts with us. During my entire career at 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:15.720 Court TV hl N now at eleven Alive, I have 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:21.440 covered dozens and dozens of high profile cases. At court TV, 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.360 we didn't we didn't cover cases that weren't high profile 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.359 because once Court TV showed up, it became high profile. 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:31.919 This one was no different. This one was, yes, a 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:36.760 national story, everybody was talking about it, but this case 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:41.880 was not higher profile than Casey Anthony O. J. Simpson, 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:46.800 Michael Jackson. So the reports are out there and they're 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:48.680 going to be out there, but our system is set 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:52.719 up that, hey, you can overcome pre trial publicity and 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:56.080 give defendants fair trials, and in history has shown us 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:59.280 this Casey Anthony was found not guilty of murder, Michael 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:03.439 Jackson was not guilty of sexually assaulting that child. O. J. 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:07.560 Simpson was found not guilty of murder. So clearly, in 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:12.359 three cases that are incredibly high profile criminal defendants got 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:16.680 fair trials. So it gets done. Our system works. In 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:20.720 this case, there was an incredible concentration of coverage of 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:25.320 this case, especially in Cobb County where it happened. So 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:28.439 during the jury selection process, it seemed like everybody had 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:30.920 been exposed and a lot of people had made preconceived 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:34.479 notions of guilt or innocence and a view of what 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:38.680 it meant in terms of what Ross Harris did. And 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.440 as a result, you listen to these jurors during the selection, 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:44.800 the initial selection process, and you're like, I don't know 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:46.960 if we'll be able to get a jury. But the 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:49.880 judge was able to qualify because the test is can 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:53.280 you or can you not take whatever you know about 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:55.040 this case ahead of time, put it aside and base 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:56.760 your verdict just on what you hear in the courtroom. 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.280 And that's what juries do. Ask O. J. Simpson as 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:04.720 Casey Anthony. So people throw that aside. The role of 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:07.800 the media and the impact that the media can have 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:11.600 on on jury selection, to me is a non issue. 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:15.200 It's something that just gets completely thrown out of whack 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:20.280 by defense attorneys. And the reason being is ultimately everyone 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:23.959 gets a fair trial, whether you pick the jury from 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:26.200 the county where it happened, or if you move it 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:30.000 to a different part of the state. Eventually you will 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:34.320 find twelve people who can put anything that they heard 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:36.000 about the case or may have heard about the case 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:39.320 aside and and give a true verdict based upon the 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:49.280 evidence inside the courtroom as instructed by the judge. Now 0:21:49.480 --> 0:22:01.960 back to the trial. During the trial, the prosecution played 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:04.000 for the jury a dash camp video from one of 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:07.280 the first officers who arrived on the scene. Gross Harris 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:09.639 can be heard in the background screaming. Upon their arrival, 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:31.679 an officer asked Mr Harris for his I D. And 0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:34.560 he lashed out towards the officer with some obscene language. 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:37.400 Not too long after the police arrived, Harris was placed 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:39.920 in handcuffs and put in the back of a squad card. 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:44.920 The dash camp continued rolling. Prosecution paused the video to 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:47.600 ask Officer Jacqueline Piper while she was on the stand 0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:52.360 in the courtroom, are you Officer Piper um Stead there 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:54.960 that you said I turned all the windows down, It's okay, 0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:57.320 all the way up? What have you said right before that? 0:22:57.840 --> 0:22:59.639 Was it not captured on the audio since he was 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:03.800 in the back that it was hot in the vehicle. 0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:06.880 Ross Harris had asked for the windows to be rolled 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:08.880 down because it was too hot in the cop car. 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:23.720 In this case, the advantage prosecutors had was that Ross 0:23:23.760 --> 0:23:31.879 Harris didn't testify. This jury, did not hear, did not 0:23:32.160 --> 0:23:37.400 have the defendant get up on the witness stand, look 0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:39.639 the jury in the eyes and say, listen, I didn't 0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:43.560 do this. I loved my son. I don't know why 0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:46.359 the defense didn't put him on the witness stand, and 0:23:46.359 --> 0:23:48.960 maybe because of that double life he had, But that 0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:51.840 double life was already in front of this jury and 0:23:51.880 --> 0:23:55.719 it was basically there without any sort of explanation, and 0:23:55.760 --> 0:24:02.040 there was no heart felt apology from Ross Harris to 0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:06.760 his son for letting him down. There was no Ross 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:11.359 Harris talking to this jury and telling them that it 0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:14.080 was an accident. And to me, the new evidence that 0:24:14.200 --> 0:24:17.879 I would have feared most as a prosecutor would have 0:24:18.000 --> 0:24:21.520 been a defendant, a father who got up on that 0:24:21.600 --> 0:24:27.160 witness stand and was genuine. Ross Harris had been sexting 0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:31.000 with multiple women, including an underage girl on June eight, 0:24:31.720 --> 0:24:36.439 all this as Cooper was dying of hyperthermia in the 0:24:36.480 --> 0:24:40.639 back of a boiling hot car. One woman who was 0:24:40.680 --> 0:24:44.240 a part of Ross Harris's other life, named Caitlin Floyd, 0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:47.440 was called to testify during the trial. Did he ever 0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:50.239 inform you that during these times, uh, that he may 0:24:50.240 --> 0:24:51.920 have been messaging you some mornings that there was a 0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:54.719 child in the backseat and you asked him how long 0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:58.800 they did marry? And how does he respond? And how 0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:02.120 do you respond? Asked him happy? How does he respond 0:25:02.800 --> 0:25:05.639 arry minus sex? What does he say about it? That 0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:08.240 is too much of a sexual frank? Does he ask 0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:11.359 you to perform some type of sex act? And does 0:25:11.400 --> 0:25:13.680 he want to do that in public? Yes? Okay? What 0:25:13.800 --> 0:25:16.480 was your response? I said, I don't want to get rested? 0:25:17.119 --> 0:25:20.199 And did you send him a photograph after that? What 0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:24.800 was his response? UMM? Asked him if you wanted to 0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:27.359 play with him? And how did he respond? Because it 0:25:27.400 --> 0:25:31.520 says yes I do and did you respond, I did 0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:34.440 What'd you say? Well, good things come to those who 0:25:34.440 --> 0:25:41.040 won't and how did he respond? Ultimately, at trial, some 0:25:41.119 --> 0:25:44.119 of the most damning and compelling evidence presented by the 0:25:44.160 --> 0:25:49.080 prosecution were the graphic details of Ross Harris's extramarital sex 0:25:49.160 --> 0:25:52.760 life and the notion that his baby boy, Cooper Harris, 0:25:53.200 --> 0:25:55.919 was in the way of his pursuit of other women, 0:25:56.119 --> 0:25:58.840 and he was in the way of Ross Harris is 0:25:58.880 --> 0:26:02.639 being able to lead this different life in the spirit 0:26:03.080 --> 0:26:05.520 got County, State of Georgia's State of Georgia, Earth and 0:26:05.640 --> 0:26:11.080 dustin law scares and base number nine three Lange here four. 0:26:12.600 --> 0:26:16.080 Any time of verdicts coming down, you are supertense, So 0:26:16.320 --> 0:26:20.160 you know, everybody wants to be first with it. Everybody's fascinated, fascinated, 0:26:20.760 --> 0:26:23.320 you want to know, you know what the what? What 0:26:23.359 --> 0:26:25.000 are the jury see And a lot of times that's 0:26:25.000 --> 0:26:27.040