1
00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,200
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mob Never told you From how Stuff

2
00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:14,280
Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

3
00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,680
Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And today we are talking about

4
00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,800
Speaker 1: sex trafficking because in two thousand eleven, President Obama actually

5
00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:26,200
Speaker 1: declared January to be National Human Trafficking Awareness Month. In

6
00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:31,560
Speaker 1: January eleven is National Human Trafficking Awareness Day. So we

7
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,920
Speaker 1: thought we'd take this opportunity and focus in on sex

8
00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,559
Speaker 1: trafficking because actually a few years ago we did an

9
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,960
Speaker 1: episode focusing on the labor aspect of human trafficking, right, which,

10
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,360
Speaker 1: when you hear human trafficking, labor trafficking actually does make

11
00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,960
Speaker 1: up a majority of what is called human trafficking, but

12
00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:56,320
Speaker 1: sex trafficking is a very terrible percentage of that. That's right. Um.

13
00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,040
Speaker 1: And in the United States, for instance, about two d

14
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,440
Speaker 1: children are estimated to be at risk of becoming victims

15
00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,920
Speaker 1: of commercial sexual exploitation, which would include sex trafficking. And

16
00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,640
Speaker 1: that number is coming from the FBI, And the estimate

17
00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,520
Speaker 1: is that sex trafficking around the world is a ten

18
00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,280
Speaker 1: billion dollar a year business. Right. But what as we'll

19
00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,319
Speaker 1: get into later in this episode, it really is just

20
00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:27,400
Speaker 1: about estimates. It's very hard to tell exactly how many women, girls, boys,

21
00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,000
Speaker 1: men are in the sex trafficking industry are being basically

22
00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,280
Speaker 1: forced against their will to participate and how much money

23
00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:38,440
Speaker 1: comes from that. So before we get into those estimates

24
00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,920
Speaker 1: into the murkier territory of sex trafficking, let's talk about

25
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,360
Speaker 1: what we do know about human and sex trafficking. Well,

26
00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,040
Speaker 1: we do have a legal definition of it um according

27
00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,000
Speaker 1: to the Trafficking Victims Protection Act, which was passed by

28
00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,840
Speaker 1: Congress back in two thousands. To summarize it is basically

29
00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,680
Speaker 1: the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, or obtaining of a person

30
00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,000
Speaker 1: for the purpose of a commercial sex act and they're

31
00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,480
Speaker 1: basically being forced into it um. And human trafficking, also

32
00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,200
Speaker 1: known as human trafficking in persons, is a modern day

33
00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,120
Speaker 1: form of slavery. You hear that a lot, that it

34
00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,120
Speaker 1: is our modern day version of slavery. Yeah, And even

35
00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,600
Speaker 1: though trafficking seems to indicate that you are moving people

36
00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,280
Speaker 1: around under that federal definition, you don't actually have to

37
00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:30,800
Speaker 1: move people in order to be trafficking them in some way.

38
00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,000
Speaker 1: And when we're talking about miners who are involved in

39
00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:39,360
Speaker 1: sex trafficking, because that is where this becomes such a

40
00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,960
Speaker 1: really big problem is for kids who are under eighteen

41
00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,680
Speaker 1: who are victims of sex trafficking, and that occurs when

42
00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,560
Speaker 1: any resident of the US under the age of eighteen

43
00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,320
Speaker 1: is commercially sexually exploited. So, for instance, children can be

44
00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:59,680
Speaker 1: commercially sexually exploited through prostitution, pornography, and or erotic entertainment.

45
00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,280
Speaker 1: And because of the nature of this conversation, UM, we

46
00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,560
Speaker 1: should put a warning out there for parents who might

47
00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,680
Speaker 1: be listening with younger kids that there will be some

48
00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,080
Speaker 1: sensitive information, UM, any trigger warnings that we need to issue.

49
00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,520
Speaker 1: Here it is and we're not going to get into

50
00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:20,280
Speaker 1: any gruesome details, but this is gonna be a challenging

51
00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:25,560
Speaker 1: topic to discuss, right and speaking of as far as minors,

52
00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,040
Speaker 1: speaking of victims, the victims of sex trafficking can really

53
00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,959
Speaker 1: be almost anyone. This is coming from the Polaris Project,

54
00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,840
Speaker 1: which focuses a lot on human trafficking. And you know,

55
00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,280
Speaker 1: people who are sex trafficked can be men, women, adults, children,

56
00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,360
Speaker 1: They can be from foreign countries or they can be

57
00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,800
Speaker 1: U S citizens. And this is not just an issue

58
00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,360
Speaker 1: of you know, people from poorer neighborhoods being trafficked or

59
00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,400
Speaker 1: being forced to have sex against their will. Sometimes these

60
00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,280
Speaker 1: individuals are well educated, while others might not have any

61
00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,720
Speaker 1: formal education. But there are also certain populations that are

62
00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:01,520
Speaker 1: going to be especially vulnerable to trafficking include undocumented immigrants,

63
00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:06,480
Speaker 1: a runaway and homeless youth, especially oppressed, marginalized, and or

64
00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:11,120
Speaker 1: impoverished groups and individuals. And we have to talk about

65
00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,920
Speaker 1: gender as well, because according to Victims of Crime dot Org,

66
00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,880
Speaker 1: ninety four per cent of the sex trafficking victims in

67
00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,640
Speaker 1: cases that have been investigated by federally funded task forces

68
00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,400
Speaker 1: or female. Well, so we mentioned that, you know, prostitution

69
00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,159
Speaker 1: is definitely a part of this commercial sex trafficking of

70
00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,960
Speaker 1: miners and Richard J. S d S and Neil Allen

71
00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,280
Speaker 1: Weener did a study into the ages of children who

72
00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,000
Speaker 1: are part of the sex trafficking industry and they found

73
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,640
Speaker 1: at the average age at which girls first become victims

74
00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,160
Speaker 1: of prostitution is twelve to fourteen. Boys and transgender youth

75
00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,800
Speaker 1: have or inner into prostitution between the ages of eleven

76
00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,559
Speaker 1: and thirteen on average, which is just horrifying. Yeah, because

77
00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,720
Speaker 1: you're you're hearing a lot more stories about how these

78
00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:01,000
Speaker 1: task forces are focusing specifically on miners who are being

79
00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:06,640
Speaker 1: trafficked because they're becoming such prominent targets for these criminal rings.

80
00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,760
Speaker 1: And even though again the number of people who are

81
00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:15,400
Speaker 1: involved is hard to pin down because of the nature

82
00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,520
Speaker 1: of the crime, we do know demographic wise who the

83
00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,320
Speaker 1: traffickers are, who the people who would want to commercially

84
00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,680
Speaker 1: sexually exploit men, women and children. Um. And the thing

85
00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,640
Speaker 1: is a lot of times you'd probably think that, especially

86
00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:35,760
Speaker 1: when it comes to sex trafficking and forced prostitution, that

87
00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,880
Speaker 1: it's going to be men who are running the show.

88
00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,240
Speaker 1: But actually there are a lot of women who are

89
00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,680
Speaker 1: running established rings as well. In fact, according to an

90
00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,720
Speaker 1: article in The Daily Beast from August two thousand thirteen,

91
00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,599
Speaker 1: which was citing research from Northeastern University and the Urban Institute,

92
00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:57,159
Speaker 1: thirty percent of traffickers are women. Yeah, that was pretty

93
00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,159
Speaker 1: surprising to me. I mean, especially when you take into

94
00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,760
Speaker 1: a consideration, just like the stereotypes, the ideas you have

95
00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,080
Speaker 1: in your head of who is running prostitution rings and

96
00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,360
Speaker 1: things like that. But these women don't just come into

97
00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,600
Speaker 1: play individually. I mean, they can be part of families

98
00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:16,400
Speaker 1: who are trafficking people, couples, um. Sharon Butch Binder was

99
00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,800
Speaker 1: talking to The Daily Beast and she was looking at

100
00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,120
Speaker 1: four hundred and seventy news releases from Immigration and Customs

101
00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,160
Speaker 1: Enforcement from two thousand eight through July one hundred and

102
00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,159
Speaker 1: sixty of which were specifically related to human trafficking for

103
00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,039
Speaker 1: either sex or labor. And she broke it down into

104
00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,080
Speaker 1: a chart. And keep in mind, you know, she points

105
00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,640
Speaker 1: out that this is not like a scientific, very precise study,

106
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,000
Speaker 1: but she looked at the percentages of gender, whether it's

107
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,880
Speaker 1: an individual, a family, a couple, and women. The number

108
00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,200
Speaker 1: of women involved, like being prosecuted for these things is

109
00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,440
Speaker 1: on the rise. Yeah, it is on the rise. And Caroline,

110
00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,839
Speaker 1: when I was reading about sex trafficking and specifically the

111
00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,920
Speaker 1: stories that past victims were telling, the ones that were

112
00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:04,840
Speaker 1: the most horrifying to were instances when girls were being

113
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:10,040
Speaker 1: trafficked by like friends, mother like friends, mothers, and or

114
00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,280
Speaker 1: even their own mothers or stepmothers. It's it's disturbing to

115
00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:19,040
Speaker 1: think of women getting other women into such a horrible

116
00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,120
Speaker 1: type of existence. And but a lot of times these

117
00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:27,400
Speaker 1: women too have been victims of sex trafficking themselves. When

118
00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,360
Speaker 1: you break down who these women are, a lot of

119
00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,280
Speaker 1: times they're around ten years older than their victims, And

120
00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,600
Speaker 1: they were former victims of sex trafficking who, instead of escaping,

121
00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,600
Speaker 1: decided to go into the same business, maybe because that's

122
00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:40,680
Speaker 1: all they know, Maybe because they don't know how to

123
00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,880
Speaker 1: get out of that criminal underworld. Right, And as Butch

124
00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,000
Speaker 1: Binder pointed out in that Daily Beast article, I mean,

125
00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,240
Speaker 1: you've got to make a living somehow. And if you

126
00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,680
Speaker 1: have spent your entire young and adult life being abused,

127
00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,240
Speaker 1: being neglected, being drugged, you know, all of these terrible things.

128
00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,600
Speaker 1: Maybe you know, you don't exactly have a huge skills set.

129
00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,680
Speaker 1: So maybe if you kind of feel comfortable in that

130
00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:05,840
Speaker 1: line of work that you know you've been working in

131
00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,720
Speaker 1: for however many years, you're just going to end up

132
00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,480
Speaker 1: going into that same line of work and abusing girls yourself.

133
00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,040
Speaker 1: And one thing that Butch Bynerd points out is that, um,

134
00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,080
Speaker 1: you know, our society does not expect women to be predatory.

135
00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:20,880
Speaker 1: You know, just like you said that you were so

136
00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:25,080
Speaker 1: surprised to hear about mothers of friends, you know, taking

137
00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,800
Speaker 1: advantage of these young girls. Our society just doesn't think like, oh, well,

138
00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,320
Speaker 1: this mother figure is going to you know, I can

139
00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,120
Speaker 1: I can stay with her it's safe, she won't do

140
00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,200
Speaker 1: anything to harm me. But the fact too that a

141
00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:41,680
Speaker 1: lot of these women were formally trafficked themselves also speaks

142
00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:46,800
Speaker 1: to a resource gap for getting women or whoever you are,

143
00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:51,880
Speaker 1: getting people out of trafficking and into more normalized society,

144
00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,160
Speaker 1: because if that's the only thing that they know, if

145
00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,000
Speaker 1: that's the only option, that says a lot about what

146
00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:58,640
Speaker 1: needs to be done on the other side of not

147
00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,600
Speaker 1: just arresting people who are doing this, but also making

148
00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:06,719
Speaker 1: sure that there are rehabilitation resources available to them. Right,

149
00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,280
Speaker 1: And it seems so it does seem so complicated and scary.

150
00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't imagine being in that life and

151
00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,839
Speaker 1: not having any way out. You know, you feel like, well,

152
00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:17,400
Speaker 1: I'm just going to get killed. If I try to

153
00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,000
Speaker 1: get out of this, someone might kill me. And so, yeah,

154
00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,959
Speaker 1: they're there. I feel like I didn't we read something

155
00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,560
Speaker 1: where the authorities were saying that like the newest way

156
00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,880
Speaker 1: they're trying to reach these girls is through texting, you know,

157
00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,480
Speaker 1: like putting phone numbers up in bathrooms or something like

158
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,760
Speaker 1: text if you're in trouble, and that way, it's not

159
00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,600
Speaker 1: like you're running away and risking you know, getting beat

160
00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,080
Speaker 1: up by your pimp or your John or whoever, but

161
00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,920
Speaker 1: actually trying to text the authorities. I've read that in

162
00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,640
Speaker 1: one of our sources. Yeah, I remember reading that as well.

163
00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:49,440
Speaker 1: And and it might seem so simple to say, oh, well,

164
00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,720
Speaker 1: someone can just go and make a text and then

165
00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,360
Speaker 1: they can go get rescued, or they can just walk

166
00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,080
Speaker 1: out and go to the police if they need to.

167
00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:03,320
Speaker 1: But there are established hierarchies in these organizations to make

168
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,920
Speaker 1: sure that the victims will stay put. For instance, a

169
00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,520
Speaker 1: lot of times you have almost a flow chart in

170
00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,120
Speaker 1: a way, like an organizational chart, where the victims are

171
00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:18,000
Speaker 1: at the very bottom, and then you have other people

172
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:19,720
Speaker 1: who might have been trafficked as well, but who have

173
00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,480
Speaker 1: been involved for a longer period of time, who were

174
00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,480
Speaker 1: like a next year up, and then the next year up,

175
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,600
Speaker 1: and then finally you get to the person who might

176
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,920
Speaker 1: be masterminding the whole thing. Yeah, and there are these

177
00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,520
Speaker 1: people called bottoms in the organization who are victims who

178
00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,880
Speaker 1: have been with the trafficker for so long that they've

179
00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,360
Speaker 1: earned his trust, his or her trust or their trust

180
00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,360
Speaker 1: um and ends up collecting money from the other girls,

181
00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,360
Speaker 1: disciplining them, seducing unwinning youth into trafficking and hand basically

182
00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,280
Speaker 1: handling the business, serving as kind of a secretary for

183
00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,720
Speaker 1: the trafficker. UM. But I mean it's not always necessarily

184
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,559
Speaker 1: a hierarchy. They might traffickers might have a solo operation

185
00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,440
Speaker 1: or be part of a local, national, or international organization.

186
00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,280
Speaker 1: It kind of runs the gamut. On top of fear

187
00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,319
Speaker 1: and intimidation that these people will use, it's very common

188
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:10,720
Speaker 1: for them to use physical violence, uh, drugs and financial

189
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,280
Speaker 1: methods in order to to keep these people from being

190
00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,880
Speaker 1: able to leave even physically. I mean, if they keep

191
00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:19,840
Speaker 1: them drugged up all the time, they don't even have

192
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,960
Speaker 1: the wherewithal to leave and can really only do the

193
00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,760
Speaker 1: traffickers bidding. And then there's a lot of horrifying blackmail

194
00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:32,000
Speaker 1: that goes on, especially for UM women abroad, undocumented immigrants

195
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,480
Speaker 1: who might be trafficked, where they get them to they

196
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,360
Speaker 1: get them a compromising positions. Essentially, if they're being sex

197
00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,080
Speaker 1: traffic there are like naked photographs of them taken, for instance,

198
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:43,839
Speaker 1: and they'll say, oh, well, if you want to leave,

199
00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:45,720
Speaker 1: we're gonna show these to your parents and you're gonna

200
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,760
Speaker 1: be completely shamed and you'll be ostracized. And so it's

201
00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:55,359
Speaker 1: just it's a kind of horrifying web of just tactics

202
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,680
Speaker 1: that they use to keep these people down right. And

203
00:11:57,720 --> 00:11:59,080
Speaker 1: a lot of times, I mean, if you're a woman

204
00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,080
Speaker 1: in another country and you have no money in your

205
00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:02,760
Speaker 1: family has no money, and you want to make it

206
00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,400
Speaker 1: to the West and earn more money and have that

207
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,440
Speaker 1: earning potential, you will believe someone who is kind to

208
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,840
Speaker 1: you and promises love and affection and just says, well,

209
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,599
Speaker 1: let me hold on to your passport and your identification

210
00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:15,400
Speaker 1: and your money and I'll get you over to that

211
00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,440
Speaker 1: country where you can get a job and have everything

212
00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,480
Speaker 1: you know that you expect. And then they end up

213
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:22,720
Speaker 1: kind of going down in that spiral. Yeah, I mean,

214
00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:24,600
Speaker 1: And there are even cases of out and out fraud

215
00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:28,560
Speaker 1: where someone will set up a website saying, oh, hey,

216
00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,120
Speaker 1: this is a hospitality school. You can come to the

217
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,360
Speaker 1: United States for X amount of dollars and then we

218
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,480
Speaker 1: will get you a job, and the people will go

219
00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,240
Speaker 1: over there and of course, lo and behold, it's not

220
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:45,120
Speaker 1: actually a school but a trafficking ring. Um. But speaking

221
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,400
Speaker 1: though of women in other countries, um, of course, a

222
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,959
Speaker 1: lot of the focus that we hear about these days

223
00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,719
Speaker 1: in the US is of the trafficking going on within

224
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,640
Speaker 1: our borders, but a majority of sex trafficking is international

225
00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:02,520
Speaker 1: and for non US citizens. And that's even including trafficking

226
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,720
Speaker 1: within the United States, right, And so victims end up

227
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,760
Speaker 1: being taken from places like South and Southeast Asia, the

228
00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,760
Speaker 1: former Soviet Union, Central and South America, and other less

229
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,320
Speaker 1: developed areas and moved to more developed ones including Asia,

230
00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,680
Speaker 1: the Middle East, Western Europe, and North America. And factors

231
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,640
Speaker 1: that contribute to making it so bad internationally are those

232
00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,760
Speaker 1: factors that we've talked about, including poverty, corruption, gender inequality,

233
00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,400
Speaker 1: and oppressive cultural norms. Yeah. For example, there is an

234
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,640
Speaker 1: article in Forbes published late in two thousand thirteen about

235
00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:38,839
Speaker 1: how in Cambodia the subordination of the women there isn't

236
00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,440
Speaker 1: just a result of too few resources or a broken

237
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:46,240
Speaker 1: civil society, but also this belief that women and girls

238
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,840
Speaker 1: should be subordinate. They don't have access to education, um

239
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,600
Speaker 1: and because of this, they're more likely to suffer the

240
00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,120
Speaker 1: effects of poverty. And from that you also see stemming

241
00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:01,800
Speaker 1: a horrible problem with sex trafficking in countries like that

242
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,560
Speaker 1: and others. Yeah, a lot of times it does go

243
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,240
Speaker 1: back to those resources, women and girls not having greater

244
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,840
Speaker 1: resources at their disposal, not having the education or even

245
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,600
Speaker 1: just the general knowledge of how to do something different.

246
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,880
Speaker 1: And so it was so great about Somali Mom's column

247
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,400
Speaker 1: for Forbes. She was talking about her organization over in

248
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,680
Speaker 1: Cambodia setting up these basically beauty schools so that young

249
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:30,760
Speaker 1: women and girls can go learn marketable skills and they

250
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,320
Speaker 1: are taught how to do any number of things from

251
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,440
Speaker 1: doing nails to hair to you know, general beauty stuff.

252
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,760
Speaker 1: But that sets them up to be financially independent, to

253
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,520
Speaker 1: be educated, to have enough knowledge and strength to kind

254
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:49,320
Speaker 1: of avoid that otherwise horrible lifestyle. Yeah. Um. New York

255
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:53,080
Speaker 1: Times columnists Nicholas Kristov actually talks a lot about the

256
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,640
Speaker 1: issues of sex trafficking in East Asia, and one of

257
00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:03,360
Speaker 1: the platforms that he all so champions is education four

258
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,400
Speaker 1: girls in developing countries because those two issues are so

259
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,840
Speaker 1: closely connected. But even when we move into the United States,

260
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,320
Speaker 1: between two thousand seven and two thousand twelve, the National

261
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,240
Speaker 1: Human Trafficking Resource Center in the US recorded more than

262
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,680
Speaker 1: nine thousand cases of potential human trafficking. And that's the

263
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,720
Speaker 1: umbrella term with the labor and sex trafficking involved, but

264
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,600
Speaker 1: still the top three victim nationalities were Mexican, Chinese, in Filipino.

265
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,480
Speaker 1: So even within our borders, it's not like the United

266
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:39,440
Speaker 1: States is somehow immune from these issues of poverty, the

267
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:44,080
Speaker 1: subordination of women, gender inequity, et cetera. And while we've

268
00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,920
Speaker 1: talked about who the victims are and who the traffickers

269
00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,640
Speaker 1: are in these situations, we haven't mentioned who the johns are.

270
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:54,480
Speaker 1: The john's being the individuals who are actually purchasing these

271
00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,520
Speaker 1: people for sex. Turns out, according to an article in

272
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,160
Speaker 1: Vanity Fairy they link the in depth article looking at

273
00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:05,440
Speaker 1: sex trafficking, the average John is married, employed, and in

274
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,640
Speaker 1: his late thirties. He's not just some random creepy guy

275
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:13,280
Speaker 1: from off the street. So, with this collected information of

276
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,040
Speaker 1: what we know in terms of who is most at risk,

277
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,720
Speaker 1: where trafficking victims might be coming from outside the United States,

278
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:27,000
Speaker 1: who's in the market for someone who has been sex trafficked, etcetera,

279
00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:32,200
Speaker 1: there's been a lot more attention focused on sex trafficking,

280
00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:36,160
Speaker 1: especially sex trafficking of minors in the United States from

281
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:40,400
Speaker 1: a criminal justice standpoint. And in July two thousand thirteen,

282
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,960
Speaker 1: something called Operation Cross Country took place, and it was

283
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,400
Speaker 1: the largest sex trafficking bust in US history and one

284
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,320
Speaker 1: reason why maybe last year you might have heard a

285
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:54,920
Speaker 1: lot about this issue. Right. They recovered one hundred and

286
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,960
Speaker 1: five juveniles and got one hundred and fifty pence in

287
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:02,360
Speaker 1: seventy six cities. That is a ton. The largest number

288
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,320
Speaker 1: of children found in one sweep, twelve were recovered in

289
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,200
Speaker 1: San Francisco, and the arrest of the most alleged pimp,

290
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:13,520
Speaker 1: eighteen came in Detroit. And this huge nationwide operation involved local, state,

291
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,399
Speaker 1: and federal law enforcement agencies partnering with groups who often

292
00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:21,280
Speaker 1: look into sex trafficking issues. And in addition to these

293
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 1: national level initiatives like Operation Cross Country, you have a

294
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,800
Speaker 1: lot of state level cases that have been popping up

295
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,080
Speaker 1: as well. I know that here in Atlanta, I hear

296
00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:37,160
Speaker 1: a lot about sex trafficking, especially because Hartsfield Jackson Airport

297
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,760
Speaker 1: is here, the largest airport in the world, and because

298
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:44,399
Speaker 1: of that, Atlanta is unfortunately a hot spot for this

299
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,639
Speaker 1: kind of activity because you have that major transportation hub there. Um.

300
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,920
Speaker 1: But there were also big stories coming out of New Jersey, Colorado, Alaska,

301
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:58,159
Speaker 1: and Florida last year, along with state level initiatives to

302
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,240
Speaker 1: pass and modify ex trafficking laws to actually get laws

303
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,919
Speaker 1: on the books first of all to punish people, but

304
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:11,280
Speaker 1: also there have been debates on reformatting trafficking laws so

305
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:16,359
Speaker 1: as to not put victims behind bars who don't need

306
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,879
Speaker 1: to be there, right right, And I mean a lot

307
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,840
Speaker 1: of people see this as a growing, multiplying problem in

308
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:26,080
Speaker 1: our country and worldwide. And one of the venues that

309
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,880
Speaker 1: authorities focus on when they want to combat sex trafficking

310
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,480
Speaker 1: and human trafficking in general is the Super Bowl and

311
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,960
Speaker 1: other large sporting events. Um A lot of headlines come

312
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,560
Speaker 1: out about sex trafficking around the Super Bowl and inven

313
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,080
Speaker 1: Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott called it the single largest

314
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,760
Speaker 1: human trafficking incident in the United States, and Stephanie Kilper,

315
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,080
Speaker 1: who's a representative for Operation Freedom Task Force in Akron, Ohio,

316
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,760
Speaker 1: said it's not so much that you become a victim

317
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,080
Speaker 1: at the super Bowl, but that many victims are brought

318
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,159
Speaker 1: in to be used for all the men at the

319
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,320
Speaker 1: super Bowl. Yeah, And according to reporting at Forbes, in

320
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,879
Speaker 1: two thousand ten, ten thousand prostitutes were brought to Miami,

321
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,280
Speaker 1: and in two thousand eleven, more than one underage arrests

322
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,800
Speaker 1: for prostitution were made in Dallas, and Arizona, which is

323
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,359
Speaker 1: hosting the Super Bowl, has already set up a task

324
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:21,720
Speaker 1: force to address this problem. But what does the NFL say? Hey,

325
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,359
Speaker 1: they say, no, this is actually not a problem. And

326
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:30,040
Speaker 1: a spokesman for the NFL called it, quote unquote pulp fiction,

327
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,520
Speaker 1: that this is actually a problem. And while some would

328
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:39,439
Speaker 1: take issue with Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott's statement that

329
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,600
Speaker 1: is the single largest human trafficking incident in the United

330
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 1: States and that in the scope of this issue, as

331
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,879
Speaker 1: we will get into in just a minute, but just

332
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 1: brushing it off and saying that it doesn't exist whatsoever,

333
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,359
Speaker 1: is it's irresponsible to me on the NFL's part. Because

334
00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 1: this is something that also comes up with the World Cup.

335
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,359
Speaker 1: There is a lot of conversation about that any kind

336
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,639
Speaker 1: of major event, sporting event, especially you're you're going to

337
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,919
Speaker 1: have this kind of thing happen, right, And a lot

338
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,680
Speaker 1: of people came out in response to these articles being like, oh,

339
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,520
Speaker 1: you know, we have to watch out for sex trafficking,

340
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,879
Speaker 1: We have to rescue a lot of young women and

341
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:21,399
Speaker 1: girls and be on the lookout for that. A lot

342
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,960
Speaker 1: of people were coming out and saying you know, don't overreact.

343
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,640
Speaker 1: A lot of the people being arrested are quote unquote

344
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 1: local talent. You know, it's not that all of these

345
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,160
Speaker 1: women and girls are being brought in from like other

346
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 1: countries or other states for the purpose of prostitution. But

347
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 1: where I think they have a valid point is just that, um.

348
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:42,359
Speaker 1: And and I mean we'll get into this too, but

349
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:47,200
Speaker 1: there has to be a distinction between um, trafficked persons

350
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,240
Speaker 1: like you know, being trafficked against their will and actual

351
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 1: sex workers who are making money around the Super Bowl. Absolutely, um,

352
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 1: And that gets us into what we really don't know

353
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,200
Speaker 1: about sex trafficking, and that distinction a lot of times

354
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 1: is one of them. There have been busts that have

355
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 1: happened where complicit sex workers are being arrested because it

356
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:16,360
Speaker 1: is assumed that they are either traffickers or people who

357
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,880
Speaker 1: are being trafficked. Um. But before we get more into that,

358
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 1: one other thing that we don't know is the actual

359
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,440
Speaker 1: scope of this problem. It's all estimations at this point. Um.

360
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 1: The United Nations, for instance, calls that the fastest growing

361
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 1: business of organized crime and is among the top three

362
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 1: largest criminal enterprises in the world. Yeah, that organization we

363
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 1: sided earlier, Polaris said that more than one hundred thousand

364
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 1: people are tracked in the United States loan for the

365
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 1: sex trade, but we don't know exact numbers. As the

366
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,919
Speaker 1: National Institute of Justice points out that, I mean this

367
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 1: is an underground thing. I mean people aren't putting up billboards.

368
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 1: You know, we don't have we were not tracking things.

369
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: We're not sure and so um. Because of the fact

370
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 1: that the number of rests for estimated UM trafficking victims

371
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 1: is so small, it leads a lot of people to

372
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 1: just say, hey, hey, this is blend way out of proportion.

373
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 1: We need to be paying attention to other things and

374
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 1: not putting all of our federal dollars behind saving these

375
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,719
Speaker 1: reported trafficking victims. Yeah, because some people would point to

376
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 1: the ratio of say the two thousand estimated children who

377
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 1: are at least at risk of being trafficked in the

378
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 1: United States compared to Operation Cross Country, which recovered one

379
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: hundred and five juveniles, I say, well, is are the

380
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: number of arrests indicative of maybe this being a much

381
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: smaller problem than it actually is. And so while no

382
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 1: one is pro trafficking, there have been a number of

383
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: critics of how trafficking is politicized and the way that

384
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 1: it's talked about, specifically with the large estimates of you know,

385
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 1: it being the this massive thing. So because of ratios

386
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 1: like that, and obviously that's just one that I'm kind

387
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 1: of tossing out there. It's not an official number, but

388
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 1: because they're the numbers do remain so vague. There are

389
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:23,919
Speaker 1: concerns that saying that there are these hundreds of thousands

390
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,959
Speaker 1: of children and adults who might be trafficked is overblowing

391
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 1: the problem um. And also there are people who and

392
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: I never want to say that, it's not that they

393
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 1: are pro trafficking. Everyone is anti trafficking. No one wants

394
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 1: this to happen. But when it comes to the racial

395
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: aspect of trafficking and the fact that women of color

396
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 1: are more likely to be trafficked, there's an issue with

397
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 1: the fact that a lot of times when we see

398
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,640
Speaker 1: these huge stories in these large media outlets, like that

399
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 1: giant Vanity Fair piece that you referenced earlier, Caroline, the

400
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: faces and the stories of women that you're hearing about

401
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 1: are white. It's often portrayed. I remember reading one about

402
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 1: a girl who used to be in four H club

403
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: and she was white, and how could this possibly happen

404
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: to white girls? There's always in this focus almost solely

405
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: on white women. Yeah, I mean some of those those

406
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: stereotypes are just so deeply ingrained in our culture. It

407
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: seems like people are so obviously people should be afraid

408
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: of and um upset about trafficking. There's no question there,

409
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 1: But it seems like people are so much more upset

410
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: when it is little Susie cheerleader from down the street,

411
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: the white girl with the blonde hair, and it's almost

412
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: as if that portrait is being painted in order to

413
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 1: get people's sympathies for this, Like here's something you need

414
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 1: to throw your money at, because it's your little girl

415
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: next door, the blonde girl next door getting trafficked. Because

416
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 1: if she can get trafficked, then imagine how terrible this

417
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: must be. Not to say that little Susie cheerleader doesn't

418
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: matter at all, but the question is why is it

419
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: only the stories of Little Susie's that we're hearing? Um.

420
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 1: There is also a conversation about this coming out of

421
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 1: the UN as well, because they have a lot of

422
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: working groups that are focused on sex trafficking globally, and

423
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: they talked about how social marginalization and gender inequity often

424
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: comes up in these issues, but racial inequality is something

425
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: that they need to pay closer attention due to figure

426
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: out how that kind of racial discrimination is linked to

427
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: this problem of sex trafficking. Because um, as they write, uh,

428
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 1: social marginalization and racial discrimination may not only put women

429
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: more at risk of being trafficked, but it also determines

430
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: how they're treated wherever they end up. So it's not

431
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 1: only a fact of women of color being more at risk,

432
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 1: but at more at risk of being treated even worse

433
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: if they end up in that situation. Now, in that

434
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair article that we've mentioned that looked into sex trafficking,

435
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: they talk about this this almost racial hierarchy. Basically, you

436
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 1: know where we mentioned that largely the face of sex

437
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,360
Speaker 1: trafficking is a girl or a woman of color, not

438
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 1: necessarily the blonde, white teenager from down the street. But

439
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: in terms of that hierarchy, clinical psychologist Melissa Farley, who's

440
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 1: the founder of Prostitution Research and Education at San Francisco

441
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: based think tank, called it eroticized racism um where white

442
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: girls are called snow bunnies and they outclassed the quote

443
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 1: unquote ducks who are black girls. And she was saying that, um,

444
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: most of these John's request the girl next door, the blonde,

445
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 1: thin teenager with big breasts, and that is such evidence

446
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 1: and in the foulest kind of way of this racial

447
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: discrimination that is that is happening over and over again.

448
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: And it's not that any of these girls lives are

449
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 1: worth more than the other, but you have to there's

450
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: so many different layers to this issue aside from just oh,

451
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: sex trafficking that's horrible, but there's within it. If you

452
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 1: look at what is pushing people into either doing it

453
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 1: or why people get tangled up in it, and those

454
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: risk factors, there's a lot of those subtleties of gender

455
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 1: and race and class that are intertwined with it. And

456
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: if you look at the history too of trafficking laws

457
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: in the United States, there is a lot of racism

458
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: that's tied up with it. Um, it started out being

459
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: called white slavery. And right there off Albigett go, we

460
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: have little Susie cheerleader who is at the forefront of

461
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: our concern because we don't want any thing to happen

462
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: to her. Whereas at the same time as the man

463
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 1: Act a k a. The White Slave Traffic Act was

464
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: being enacted at that time. For instance, as we mentioned

465
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: in our History of rape culture, black women would not

466
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: have even had a legal leg to stand on if

467
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: they said that they had been sexually assaulted, right. And

468
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: I mean, this is such an interesting period in our history.

469
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 1: I mean we have this hysteria surrounding immigration, foreigners, um women,

470
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: single white women moving into urban centers looking for employment,

471
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 1: you know, moving away from those rural areas on their

472
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: own and getting exploited. And was there some of that

473
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: going on? Absolutely? But there when I say hysteria, I

474
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: mean there was this this idea that, um, it was

475
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: going to happen to you or your sister or your

476
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: friend like it was you were all all of these

477
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: young women were at such a high risk of being

478
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: basically sold into quote unquote white slavery. Yeah. We found

479
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: an article about this over at PBS and it was

480
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: linking that passage of the Man Act to Jack Johnson,

481
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: who was a really prominent boxer at the time, who

482
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: he was a black man who had white girlfriends and wives.

483
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: And when one of the women, I don't have all

484
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: the details right in front of me, but when one

485
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: of the women cross state lines, I believe, to either

486
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: just join him or marry him. Um. People freaked out

487
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: so much at the idea of an interracial couple. A

488
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: and the fact that this you know, precious white woman

489
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: was in a relationship with this black boxer, that that

490
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: was fueling part of that panic at the time, this

491
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: like terror over like white female sexuality, right, And that

492
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 1: punishment that Jack Johnson faced was essentially what the Man

493
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: Act ended up accomplishing. I mean, it's so rarely accomplished

494
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: what they said they had put it on the books for,

495
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: which was to protect women. I mean, it ended up

496
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: being a tool to basically persecute minorities. Yeah, I mean,

497
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: I think he was one of, if not the first

498
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: person who was prosecuted under the Man Act. And in

499
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: the language of that law, it made it a crime

500
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: to transport women across state lines quote for the purpose

501
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: of prostitution or debauchery, or for any other immoral purpose,

502
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: which essentially allowed them to cast such a wide net.

503
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: I'm actually side note reading a book about the evolution

504
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: of yoga in the United States called The Great Oom,

505
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: and they tie in the Man Act because there were

506
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: these men who were practicing yoga and we're all into

507
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: the Tan Trick movement and all the stuff. And there

508
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: were white girls who were going and joining them, and

509
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: they were prosecuted under the Man Act, even though these

510
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: women were consensually going to going to join these guys.

511
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: It was such an outrage. Yeah, And I mean, you've

512
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: gotta lot, You've gotta love the Industrial Revolution period. I mean,

513
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: everybody's just so scar hear it about the changing society, urbanization.

514
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: You know, people coming from all sorts of different countries

515
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: and not sounding like you, not looking like you, and

516
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: the the changing role of women induce so much anxiety

517
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: among people. And so you have these evolving social morays

518
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: and and people start to just draw assumptions about things

519
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: where they don't exist. Yeah. I mean, it's that kind

520
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: of paternalistic arm of the law. Um. But in nine

521
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: the u n adopts the Convention for the Suppression of

522
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: traffic in Persons and of the Exploitation of the Prostitution

523
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: of Others, And so it's sort of like a broader

524
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: type of Man Act, and it's an anti trafficking law. Um.

525
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: But it makes no distinction between free enforced prostitution. And

526
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: this is something that is still an issue with sex

527
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: trafficking today is the question of is this free or

528
00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: forced prostitution? Um. Because then in the nineteen eighties you

529
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: have second way feminists who helped coin the term sex trafficking,

530
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: and at the same time you have sex workers starting

531
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: to organize saying, hey, we are actually consensually doing this work.

532
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: This is our livelihood. Don't mess this up. We are

533
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: not pro trafficking at all. We're all working on the

534
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: same team, but don't get us arrested. Yeah, I mean,

535
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: I think it's very interesting that the terms sex trafficking

536
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: and sex worker come out at about the same time, Um,

537
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: that that women were, you know, definitely trying to draw

538
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: those lines between the two and say not everybody, you know,

539
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: not everybody's in this for the same in goal. I

540
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: guess yeah, because you you also have these riffs within

541
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: the feminist movement of women who are oncent across the

542
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: board anti prostitution, and so you do have those sex

543
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: work activists claiming that term sex work and trying to

544
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: legitimize what they're doing. Um. And it's really up until

545
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: when dozens of trafficked labor workers were found in New

546
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: York that trafficking even took on any kind of non

547
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: sex connotation. Up until then, any kind of trafficking was

548
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: considered sex trafficking, and the victims were almost always considered women. Right.

549
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: And it is around this time too that we do

550
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: get the legal distinction made between free enforced prostitution. And

551
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: so what this brings us up to today is that

552
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: we know that it's a problem. As we've ran through

553
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: in the first half of the podcast, this is happening. Yes,

554
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: there are victims, Yes, there are people who are criminals

555
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: who are doing horrible things. Yes, but there's still there's

556
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: still a lot of ambiguity because you have things like

557
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: that law passed by Congress in two thousand, the Trafficking

558
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: Law that that puts the definition of trafficking into legal terms.

559
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: But when it comes to the day to day work

560
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: the there there's some who would say that we pay

561
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: so much attention to sex trafficking because this is more

562
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: of a sex panic. Yeah. I mean, there were a

563
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 1: lot of columns that we that we saw that talked

564
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 1: about kind of kind of what I mentioned earlier, you know,

565
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: like people saying you're putting way too much money into

566
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: this is trafficking, bad yes, is it awful? Yes? Are

567
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: there girls and women and boys and men who need

568
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: to be saved? Yes, But watch your language that kind

569
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: of thing, you know, watch the way that you as

570
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: authorities or people or the media, just watch how you

571
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: frame the way you're talking about it, because not everybody

572
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: has gotten into sex work the same way. And um,

573
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: I think a lot of advocates out there for sex

574
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: workers are saying that, you know, the lines need to

575
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 1: be clearer and there need to be better resources on

576
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: both sides, right, I mean, because the problem on for

577
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: UH consensual sex worker with the kinds of laws that

578
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: have come down is that it pushes sex work even

579
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: more underground, so it's making their working conditions even more dangerous.

580
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: Because the thing is, no matter how many laws you

581
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: have in the books, prostitution is gonna happen. It's just

582
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 1: gonna happen. Um And there are people who make their

583
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: livelihoods by that and are happy to do so. UM.

584
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 1: So by the same coin, though, there need to be

585
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: more resources beyond just laws to help people get out

586
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: of trafficking. Because there was one UH nonprofit who that

587
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: has a shelter set up almost as a halfway house

588
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: for UM victims of sex trafficking who have who have

589
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: been rescued, but they only have like eight beds or something,

590
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: and I think it's in New York and and that

591
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: you know, that small number of beds can only clearly

592
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 1: house a fraction of people who need it. So what

593
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: are what are the they're people going to do? Right?

594
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: And so I think you know, we mentioned Smalley Mom

595
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: in UM Cambodia, who has that group UM that educates

596
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: young girls and women, And you know, I would love

597
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: to see more things like that, And you know, I'm

598
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: sure there's so much that we haven't even touched on.

599
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: And maybe our listeners know of some resources like that,

600
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: some organizations out there who can actually help. So, if

601
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: at all possible, even though this isn't the most pleasant

602
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: of topics, I'd like to end the podcast on a

603
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: positive note. And as we often stay on the podcast,

604
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: if we educate ourselves, then maybe we can educate other

605
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: people and hopefully through education and awareness and paying attention

606
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: to facts rather than any kind of panicked portrayals, we

607
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: can make a more equitable society together. Yeah, And I

608
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: mean that's what we try to do, you know, present

609
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: facts and stats UM and you know, try to make

610
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: it clear that you know, we're not We're not UM

611
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: try to promote any sort of panic either, but uh

612
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: we we sort of gave you a a broad brush

613
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: overview of this very important topic. And if you want

614
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 1: to learn more, I encourage you to go to Polaris's

615
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:16,320
Speaker 1: website UM where they have a lot of information about

616
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 1: like state by state information. They they have basically tiers

617
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: tiers one, two, and three of states who are doing

618
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:28,760
Speaker 1: a lot to protect people from the sex trafficking industry. Yeah,

619
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: and if you're someone who might be working with a

620
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 1: nonprofit like Polarists, or if you are a sex worker

621
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: or work with any kind of sex worker advocacy group

622
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: that has UM a different kind of perspective on this

623
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: issue as well. We want to hear from everybody about

624
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: this topic. So you can write to us mom stuff

625
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: at Discovery dot com, or you can tweet us a

626
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast, or send us a message over on Facebook.

627
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 1: And we've got a couple of messages to share with

628
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: you when we get right back from a quick break

629
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: and now back to our letters. Well, we have some

630
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: messages here in response to our pie episode, our Delicious

631
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 1: Delicious episode on Pie and Kate wrote to us. She

632
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,720
Speaker 1: said she's from San Diego, California. She says, I'm writing

633
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: too about your recent episode about pies. Unlike both of

634
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: your families, the cooking duties in my parents household tend

635
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 1: to be pretty much equally distributed. In fact, it is

636
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: my dad who does most of the holiday cooking, with

637
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 1: pies as his particular specialty. This year at Thanksgiving he

638
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: made pumpkin apple pecan oh, she says, pronounced by us

639
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 1: as peacan, not pecan, and pomegranate meringue pies. He says

640
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: his work as a chemistry professor makes him uniquely qualified

641
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: for baking, and my mother happily agrees. I just thought

642
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: i'd share how proud I am of my fair minded daddy,

643
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: who raised me and my sister to be strong women

644
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 1: who also appreciate the art of baking delicious Pie and Kristen,

645
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 1: She adds, thank you so much for the work you

646
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: do on the podcast. I of having the two of

647
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: you in my ears as I'm walking to class. I

648
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: also want to tell you how much I enjoyed the

649
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: YouTube channel. The her Story episodes are my particular favorite.

650
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: They make me laugh and laugh so thank you for

651
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 1: listening and watching Kate. Yeah, thank you, Kate. Well, I've

652
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: got an email here from Patrick's subject line, I'm a

653
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: guy who bakes pies. Hey, Kristen and Caroline. He writes,

654
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: I'm a man thirty years old now who was expected

655
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: to make pies whenever I come to extended family gatherings.

656
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: It started years ago when I asked what I should

657
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: bring for Thanksgiving and I was told to bring pie.

658
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: So I broke out the Better Homes and Gardens cookbook

659
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 1: and made an apple pie from scratch, Yes, even the crust.

660
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 1: It's impressive. It took a few tries the first time,

661
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 1: but I did it, and I took the pie. It

662
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: was a hit. Thus it came to pass that whenever

663
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: I'm in by a two Thanksgiving, Christmas or Easter, I'm

664
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: expected to make and bring pie. Though I will agree

665
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: with what you said about the lattice work being too

666
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 1: much of a pain. That's why I go for the

667
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,800
Speaker 1: French apple pie topping, which is more of a crumbled

668
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: topping made out of flour, brown sugar, and butter, So

669
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: much easier than lattice, and everyone loves brown sugar. I

670
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: can't agree. Well, thanks to Patrick and Kate and everybody

671
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 1: else who has written in to us. Mom Stuff at

672
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: Discovery dot com is where you can send us your letters.

673
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 1: You can also reach us though on Twitter at mom

674
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: Stuff Podcasts, or you can message us on Facebook. And

675
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: if you want to go find all things stuff mom

676
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: never told you, there's only one place now on the Internet,

677
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: and it's www. Dot stuff mom never told you dot

678
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: com book market and come back often for more on

679
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff

680
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: works dot com