WEBVTT - #64 Kevin 0:00:15.210 --> 0:00:23.089 Pushkin Hey everyone, today's episode is a special one, but 0:00:23.170 --> 0:00:25.810 at the same time it does deal with mental illness 0:00:26.010 --> 0:00:30.250 and children in distressing situations, so take care when listening. 0:00:38.650 --> 0:00:40.690 You reach Jackie, you leave me a message? 0:00:40.890 --> 0:00:42.409 Do you plan? Lets you my message? 0:00:43.810 --> 0:00:47.449 Jackie, I haven't heard from you in a while. I 0:00:47.450 --> 0:00:51.250 thought maybe the adoration of American candidate isn't enough for you, 0:00:51.610 --> 0:00:54.130 so I wanted you to hear all the peoples of 0:00:54.170 --> 0:00:57.170 the world, all over the world who want to hear 0:00:57.209 --> 0:01:00.410 your voice again. Here are a few of them, Jackie, Jackie. 0:01:00.730 --> 0:01:03.370 My name is Jngles. I am from Cyprus, which is 0:01:03.490 --> 0:01:07.369 mega far away from where you're from. Jackie, Jackie, Jackie. 0:01:07.410 --> 0:01:12.490 This is Tracy recording voice message from London, England, Jackie. 0:01:12.650 --> 0:01:15.970 Even here in little Switzerland, the despair is great. 0:01:15.850 --> 0:01:18.250 Did Jackie. This is a song from Istanbul. 0:01:18.490 --> 0:01:21.170 You are the only person who makes me laugh out loud. 0:01:21.250 --> 0:01:23.530 You should definitely come back. You are the highlight of 0:01:23.610 --> 0:01:28.010 the show. It means nothing without you. 0:01:28.090 --> 0:01:30.730 Onid martez Iva Casine. 0:01:30.250 --> 0:01:33.610 Love from Alto and New Zealand. Kinny Shelton, you have 0:01:33.650 --> 0:01:36.530 a lovely rist of your day now. And this is 0:01:36.730 --> 0:01:43.450 Jonathan from England wishing you Mary Saint peppins that Hello, oh, 0:01:43.530 --> 0:01:53.570 I thought you picked up from Pushkin Industries. I'm Jonathan 0:01:53.610 --> 0:02:04.650 Goldstein and this is Heavyweight Today's episode Kevin right after 0:02:04.690 --> 0:02:17.450 the break. Kevin's email doesn't begin with any small talk, 0:02:18.130 --> 0:02:22.730 no longtime listener, first time writer preamble. He gets right 0:02:22.770 --> 0:02:26.290 into it. My little brother and I grew up destitute 0:02:26.410 --> 0:02:30.890 Kevin Wrights in a public housing project in Sacramento. He 0:02:30.930 --> 0:02:33.690 goes on to say that life back then was only 0:02:33.730 --> 0:02:36.570 made bearable by the presence of two boys who live 0:02:36.650 --> 0:02:40.970 next door, and this is why he's writing. Kevin hasn't 0:02:41.010 --> 0:02:43.970 seen them in over thirty years, but he still hasn't 0:02:43.970 --> 0:02:49.290 forgotten them. The two boys his friends, Jason and Gerald. 0:02:52.370 --> 0:02:53.010 Can you hear me? 0:02:53.250 --> 0:02:54.210 Yeah, I can hear you. 0:02:54.210 --> 0:02:54.690 Can you hear me? 0:02:55.130 --> 0:02:55.370 Yes? 0:02:55.530 --> 0:02:55.730 Yes? 0:02:55.850 --> 0:02:56.169 Great? 0:02:56.730 --> 0:02:59.090 The path that led him to Jason and Gerald is 0:02:59.170 --> 0:03:02.850 long and circuitous. Kevin begins the tale back in the 0:03:02.890 --> 0:03:05.570 third grade, sitting in class reading. 0:03:06.130 --> 0:03:08.730 I would reading a book on the Kremlins. 0:03:08.210 --> 0:03:09.090 Based on the movie. 0:03:09.370 --> 0:03:13.410 Yeah to Cover was the theatrical poster of the movie, 0:03:13.850 --> 0:03:16.890 and I remember it was during that moment that the 0:03:16.930 --> 0:03:19.450 teacher just said, Hey, we got to go to the 0:03:19.490 --> 0:03:24.490 principal's office. And when you're a kid, that's kind of 0:03:24.530 --> 0:03:28.490 memorable because I thought, initially I was in serious trouble. 0:03:32.450 --> 0:03:35.890 When Kevin arrived at the principal's office, his mom was there, 0:03:36.210 --> 0:03:39.490 surrounded by his five siblings. She explained that she was 0:03:39.570 --> 0:03:41.930 leaving their father and taking them all with her. 0:03:42.450 --> 0:03:48.570 So, my dad has always been a real imposing, frightening figure, 0:03:48.730 --> 0:03:51.290 because he would be everybody in the family if you 0:03:51.890 --> 0:03:56.770 didn't really obey his commands. I never thought that he 0:03:56.970 --> 0:04:00.490 was malicious, but that he beted us because we screwed 0:04:00.570 --> 0:04:02.690 up somehow, one way or another. So he would whip 0:04:02.810 --> 0:04:05.090 us with a metal clothes hangar, for example, or he 0:04:05.090 --> 0:04:08.410 would pinch us, and when he pinched us, it would 0:04:08.450 --> 0:04:11.690 go through the clothing and would leave like half dollar 0:04:11.890 --> 0:04:16.170 sized welt of blue and purple and greenish colors. 0:04:16.210 --> 0:04:19.969 One day, a neighbor, alarmed by a loud argument between 0:04:20.050 --> 0:04:24.049 Kevin's parents, phoned the police, and Kevin's father was arrested. 0:04:24.690 --> 0:04:27.689 He spent several days in jail, and when he returned 0:04:27.690 --> 0:04:29.289 home he seemed different. 0:04:29.810 --> 0:04:32.009 We didn't have the word mentally ill back then, but 0:04:32.089 --> 0:04:36.449 we just talked amongst ourselves that he became crazy, and 0:04:36.489 --> 0:04:42.049 by crazy, I mean like really crazy. Whatever he endured 0:04:42.450 --> 0:04:46.690 in jail must have been so traumatic for my dad 0:04:47.330 --> 0:04:50.609 and he invented a word at the time that everything 0:04:50.729 --> 0:04:51.330 was dirty. 0:04:52.250 --> 0:04:55.529 The dirty fixation began as soon as his father arrived 0:04:55.609 --> 0:04:58.729 back home from jail. The first thing he did upon 0:04:58.770 --> 0:05:02.289 his return was to ask for a box. He threw 0:05:02.409 --> 0:05:07.089 every article of clothing he was wearing inside. Then, standing 0:05:07.169 --> 0:05:10.650 naked before the family, he instructed his eldest son to 0:05:10.729 --> 0:05:12.169 throw the clothes away. 0:05:12.369 --> 0:05:16.369 And he goes up, he takes a shower, and when 0:05:16.369 --> 0:05:20.210 he comes back down, he sees that my older bro 0:05:20.409 --> 0:05:21.770 brought back the box. 0:05:22.570 --> 0:05:25.210 He was telling my bro that why do you bring 0:05:25.250 --> 0:05:28.810 the box back? Because the box is. 0:05:28.810 --> 0:05:34.169 Dirty, But more importantly, how did you toss out the 0:05:34.250 --> 0:05:35.049 dirty clothes? 0:05:35.810 --> 0:05:37.450 And my bro said he. 0:05:37.529 --> 0:05:40.529 Just grabbed it from the box and tossed it out, 0:05:40.969 --> 0:05:45.049 basically indicating to my dad that my bro touched the 0:05:45.130 --> 0:05:48.969 clothing himself. My dad just went cirtain. He just he 0:05:49.130 --> 0:05:52.489 just beat my bro on the spot right there. But 0:05:52.609 --> 0:05:56.449 that was the beginning of this crazy phase where my 0:05:56.570 --> 0:05:58.809 dad just completely lost it. 0:06:05.609 --> 0:06:10.130 His dad's new obsession only increased the tension between Kevin parents. 0:06:10.289 --> 0:06:12.609 And every time they had arguments. We have no clue 0:06:12.650 --> 0:06:15.089 what they were talking about because they spoke in Vietnamese, 0:06:15.130 --> 0:06:18.290 and although that was my first native language, there was 0:06:18.330 --> 0:06:21.489 a time where my dad thought that we weren't learning 0:06:21.529 --> 0:06:25.890 English well enough. He forbade the usage of Vietnamese in 0:06:25.929 --> 0:06:30.089 the house. Then again, if he heard anybody utter single 0:06:30.130 --> 0:06:32.489 word of Vietnamese, he would beat us. And so we 0:06:32.690 --> 0:06:36.929 dropped that quickly. But one of the arguments precipitated with 0:06:37.049 --> 0:06:42.890 my dad grabbing a cleaver and he throws it across 0:06:43.049 --> 0:06:46.369 the room and no one in particular, but it larged 0:06:46.409 --> 0:06:47.889 hisself into the wall. 0:06:49.089 --> 0:06:52.009 It wasn't long after that that Kevin, his mom, and 0:06:52.049 --> 0:06:55.570 his siblings found themselves standing in the principal's office. 0:06:56.010 --> 0:07:00.210 We went from the principal's office straight to what I 0:07:00.289 --> 0:07:01.810 now know is woman's shelter. 0:07:03.130 --> 0:07:06.369 Do you remember that first night that you spent there? 0:07:06.890 --> 0:07:07.050 Oh? 0:07:07.089 --> 0:07:07.889 Yeah, it was great. 0:07:08.250 --> 0:07:12.170 It just felt you wouldn't know anything imposing about the 0:07:12.170 --> 0:07:16.050 shelter until you leave. That's when you see the eye 0:07:16.130 --> 0:07:18.410 fences with the barber wire over the top. Almost looks 0:07:18.489 --> 0:07:20.970 like a prison. But it was great insight. There's a 0:07:20.970 --> 0:07:24.730 giant playground or tricycles there was a walk in pantry 0:07:24.890 --> 0:07:28.009 that myself and my brother really loved if because you 0:07:28.010 --> 0:07:31.090 could walk in and they're all these snacks and instant noodles. 0:07:31.810 --> 0:07:35.090 But after a few weeks of feasting on instant noodles. 0:07:35.010 --> 0:07:40.249 My mom just suddenly gathers all of us and she 0:07:40.290 --> 0:07:46.210 had the paper grocery bag. She just tersely explains to 0:07:46.330 --> 0:07:50.129 us that two of us, two of the six of 0:07:50.210 --> 0:07:54.369 us kids, will have to return to my dad. She 0:07:54.489 --> 0:07:58.050 can't take care of all of us, she cannot keep 0:07:58.090 --> 0:08:02.050 all of us. And she said, as she wrote six 0:08:02.090 --> 0:08:05.690 of our names on pieces of paper, and she put 0:08:05.770 --> 0:08:09.689 all of our names in this paper bag, and she's 0:08:09.690 --> 0:08:13.050 going to draw two names into two names, will be 0:08:13.170 --> 0:08:17.570 two kids to have to return to my dad. And 0:08:18.530 --> 0:08:20.569 I just remember my name with the first name to 0:08:20.610 --> 0:08:25.770 be drawn, and I was just I was just shocked. 0:08:26.210 --> 0:08:28.850 I don't know at the time I felt, I mean, 0:08:28.850 --> 0:08:30.570 there were six of us, two names. 0:08:30.290 --> 0:08:31.090 Were to be drawn. 0:08:31.170 --> 0:08:36.410 I just thought that my odds were somewhat reasonable. But 0:08:36.570 --> 0:08:38.970 looking back at it, I feel like my mom just 0:08:39.770 --> 0:08:44.209 rigged the whole thing because she couldn't just say outright, 0:08:45.370 --> 0:08:48.650 I want you Kevin, and I want your little bro 0:08:49.330 --> 0:08:52.530 to go back to your dad because I feel that 0:08:53.890 --> 0:08:58.490 the younger ones won't be able to cope. Well, your 0:08:58.530 --> 0:09:00.530 dad's not going to be able to take care of them, 0:09:01.890 --> 0:09:04.650 and she wanted to keep my older bro. He was 0:09:04.690 --> 0:09:07.210 just the oldest one, favored one. 0:09:07.890 --> 0:09:11.090 The plans lablished by the drawing of names from the 0:09:11.130 --> 0:09:14.490 paper bag was that Kevin's oldest brother and the three 0:09:14.570 --> 0:09:17.970 youngest kids would stay with their mom. Well, Kevin and 0:09:18.010 --> 0:09:20.690 his middle brother, Tony would go live with their dad. 0:09:21.450 --> 0:09:25.050 At the moment she drew my name, I lost my mom, 0:09:25.530 --> 0:09:29.530 my siblings, and what hurt just as much was losing 0:09:29.530 --> 0:09:32.530 my older bro. Dad looked up to him. I would 0:09:32.570 --> 0:09:36.450 ask him all kinds of questions, everything from life to school. 0:09:37.650 --> 0:09:40.370 What color you see when you die? And I still 0:09:40.370 --> 0:09:43.130 remember his answer because he said, she don't see any 0:09:43.130 --> 0:09:47.810 color when you're dead. But I asked him, what does 0:09:47.850 --> 0:09:50.130 that mean? What is the color of no color? That 0:09:50.250 --> 0:09:54.410 black or that white? He said, no, it's neither's no color. 0:09:59.290 --> 0:10:02.130 To lose him in that one fell swoop when my 0:10:02.170 --> 0:10:06.770 mom pulled out my name, let alone knowing that you 0:10:06.850 --> 0:10:10.130 have to go back to your dad, who you're super 0:10:10.170 --> 0:10:15.290 afraid of. When she drew my name, I remember I 0:10:15.410 --> 0:10:17.130 wasn't the only one who was crying. 0:10:17.170 --> 0:10:20.970 We all cried. We all cried. 0:10:22.970 --> 0:10:25.610 Kevin now has three kids of his own, and in 0:10:25.730 --> 0:10:29.810 raising them, he thinks back on that moment their hamster died. 0:10:30.530 --> 0:10:35.570 They were crying, and my partner was telling me, Oh, 0:10:35.570 --> 0:10:40.210 they're just kids, They're just kids, and they don't really 0:10:40.250 --> 0:10:45.050 mean it. But when she said that, I remember I 0:10:45.130 --> 0:10:48.250 cried to say around the same age when my name 0:10:48.370 --> 0:10:52.370 was drawn from a paper bag, and that cry was 0:10:52.410 --> 0:10:54.730 still the deepest cry I ever had in my life. 0:10:55.530 --> 0:10:58.370 So I just remembered, No, I got to tend to 0:10:58.450 --> 0:11:02.690 my kids. I'm going to bury the hamster in the backyard, 0:11:04.050 --> 0:11:09.170 set a proper tombstone, and have a good farewell. I 0:11:09.170 --> 0:11:12.130 don't think their cries are going to be any lighter 0:11:12.170 --> 0:11:15.650 than their future cries when there adults. 0:11:16.770 --> 0:11:18.570 I don't think so. 0:11:23.570 --> 0:11:26.730 For the next several years, Kevin had almost no contact 0:11:26.730 --> 0:11:29.570 with his mom and siblings. He says his mom would 0:11:29.570 --> 0:11:32.370 sometimes drop off food at his dad's place, but she 0:11:32.450 --> 0:11:36.530 was never allowed inside. Kevin was eight and Tony was six. 0:11:36.850 --> 0:11:38.570 On the night they went back to live with their 0:11:38.650 --> 0:11:41.570 dad at his apartment in a public housing project. 0:11:42.010 --> 0:11:45.410 I remember he was drinking he's always drinking. I mean, 0:11:46.170 --> 0:11:48.210 I've never seen him drink water in my life. He's 0:11:48.250 --> 0:11:52.450 always drinking beer and eating peanuts. And that was actually 0:11:52.490 --> 0:11:54.490 what he was doing when we came back in the 0:11:54.530 --> 0:11:55.970 middle of the living room floor. 0:11:57.010 --> 0:11:59.690 Although the living room contained a big, fluffy couch and 0:11:59.730 --> 0:12:02.930 some school desks, their father wanted Kevin and Tony to 0:12:03.010 --> 0:12:05.170 join him on a piece of cardboard he laid on 0:12:05.250 --> 0:12:08.850 the cold linoleum floor. It turned out that since they'd 0:12:08.890 --> 0:12:12.490 last seen him, their father's obsession had only intensified. 0:12:13.010 --> 0:12:16.730 My dad set some rules. He said that don't ever 0:12:16.850 --> 0:12:21.010 touch these dusts or to couch because they're now dirty. 0:12:22.130 --> 0:12:24.690 I mean, we weren't going to question him. We didn't 0:12:24.690 --> 0:12:28.810 want to get beaten, so we ended up doing exactly that. 0:12:29.290 --> 0:12:33.250 A lot of these areas around the entire apartment just 0:12:33.330 --> 0:12:40.170 became dirty, untouchable. Over time, A layer of dust accrued 0:12:40.450 --> 0:12:43.530 everywhere that we were not allowed. 0:12:43.010 --> 0:12:45.090 To touch or walk through. 0:12:52.330 --> 0:12:55.970 I got this pen where a little thick pen with 0:12:56.050 --> 0:12:59.650 a different colored tabs on the top were change from 0:12:59.690 --> 0:13:00.730 black to blue red. 0:13:01.050 --> 0:13:02.929 Remember those It was a really it. 0:13:02.930 --> 0:13:08.130 Was a prized possession of minds. And I remember my dad, 0:13:08.210 --> 0:13:12.210 my brother and I were on our living room floor again, 0:13:12.810 --> 0:13:15.130 and my bro was holding the pen and he was 0:13:15.170 --> 0:13:18.650 trying to change one of the colors, but it flung 0:13:18.690 --> 0:13:22.890 out of his hands and twirled around, and it eventually 0:13:22.970 --> 0:13:27.250 settled a few feet away from him in this dirty zone. 0:13:28.050 --> 0:13:31.929 And at that moment that happened, as an eight nine 0:13:32.010 --> 0:13:35.250 year old, I just knew that my pen was gone, 0:13:35.330 --> 0:13:38.050 even though it's literally just three feet away from us. 0:13:38.650 --> 0:13:41.050 My bro and I looked at each other. We both 0:13:41.090 --> 0:13:43.170 looked at my dad, and my dad just gave us 0:13:43.210 --> 0:13:47.530 that kind of solemn shake of his head like I'm sorry, boys, 0:13:47.570 --> 0:13:49.370 but that's a terrible loss. 0:13:49.610 --> 0:13:52.410 So you would just see the pen sitting there. 0:13:52.490 --> 0:13:55.530 Yeah, and then it would be absorbed by the dust. 0:13:55.570 --> 0:13:59.850 Over time, it would just become covered with dust itself. 0:14:04.450 --> 0:14:07.490 Even when their father wasn't home, Tony and Kevin didn't 0:14:07.570 --> 0:14:09.450 dare step into the dirty zone. 0:14:09.650 --> 0:14:12.450 I think we were also afraid because if you ventured 0:14:12.490 --> 0:14:14.930 into one of dirty area, you would kind of leave 0:14:15.290 --> 0:14:19.370 like literal footprints into that dusty area. It would be 0:14:19.410 --> 0:14:24.290 pretty obvious. And so I remember one time a policeman 0:14:24.690 --> 0:14:28.770 entered our home because there was some kind of robbery 0:14:29.010 --> 0:14:31.690 and the cop was trying to find this person. And 0:14:31.810 --> 0:14:34.530 I remember his face the moment he stepped in, like 0:14:34.650 --> 0:14:39.490 holy crap, Like he was asking me, you guys live here, 0:14:40.450 --> 0:14:43.050 and he was trying to search the house and I 0:14:43.090 --> 0:14:45.490 was cleading with him. I was like, well, he don't, 0:14:45.650 --> 0:14:47.850 don't go over there, don't open that door and be 0:14:47.970 --> 0:14:50.930 that side closet was part of the dirty zone and 0:14:50.970 --> 0:14:54.850 I didn't want to get in trouble. And thankfully I 0:14:54.890 --> 0:14:59.770 remember the cop just acquiesced. When Kevin speaks of that 0:14:59.890 --> 0:15:03.050 time in his life, it says an accumulation of losses, 0:15:03.730 --> 0:15:06.970 the loss of his brothers and sister, his mom, the 0:15:07.050 --> 0:15:11.090 loss of all the rules that made reality reality, which 0:15:11.090 --> 0:15:13.810 is why he still remembers the one real gain from 0:15:13.810 --> 0:15:14.370 that time. 0:15:15.210 --> 0:15:19.050 Friends. Those boys, Jason and Gerald. 0:15:19.170 --> 0:15:21.890 They were a white family living with their single mom. 0:15:22.610 --> 0:15:26.490 Jason was witty and funny. Jerald was kind of goofy 0:15:26.530 --> 0:15:27.530 looking but lovable. 0:15:28.410 --> 0:15:32.090 Gerald was Tony's age, Jason was Kevin's. They had video 0:15:32.170 --> 0:15:35.370 games and a mom who was nice to them. Every morning, 0:15:35.410 --> 0:15:38.370 we will wake up, we go outside, just yell out. 0:15:38.450 --> 0:15:40.330 Jason, Gerald, what are you up to? 0:15:40.490 --> 0:15:43.330 And he would come back out, groggy eyed, wiping their eyes. 0:15:44.290 --> 0:15:46.490 We would just hanging out all the time. 0:15:49.770 --> 0:15:53.410 In a life that was filled with significant, often traumatic events. 0:15:53.770 --> 0:15:56.010 The time Kevin and his brother spent with Jason and 0:15:56.090 --> 0:16:00.130 Gerald was notable for just how unknotable it was. It 0:16:00.210 --> 0:16:02.970 was simple and fun. It was time spent just being 0:16:03.010 --> 0:16:07.370 a kid, building secret passageways out of cardboard boxes, racing 0:16:07.410 --> 0:16:11.410 bugs through obstacle courses, and climbing the highway retention wall 0:16:11.570 --> 0:16:15.290 to watch cars speed by. They swam at the public pool. 0:16:15.530 --> 0:16:19.050 They played with firecrackers, blowing up snapper bottles in the park. 0:16:19.770 --> 0:16:21.450 Then there were the comics Kevin made. 0:16:21.890 --> 0:16:26.650 It might have been a smorgas board of different characters 0:16:26.690 --> 0:16:28.690 I drew at the time, like one of the teenage 0:16:28.770 --> 0:16:33.250 mutant Ninja Turtles, or Batman, or Bart and Garfieud or 0:16:33.290 --> 0:16:34.650 all four of them in the same comic. 0:16:34.650 --> 0:16:35.130 Who knew? 0:16:36.330 --> 0:16:39.970 They offered me a quarter for every comic book I drew. 0:16:39.890 --> 0:16:40.850 And gave it to them. 0:16:41.210 --> 0:16:42.970 So I did that, and I needed the quarters to 0:16:42.970 --> 0:16:46.690 buy myself candy. Hanging out with them was always a 0:16:46.770 --> 0:16:49.290 blast for twelve hours a day. 0:16:50.050 --> 0:16:51.890 Did you ever have friends like that before? 0:16:52.850 --> 0:16:55.850 No? No, And it helped. 0:16:56.570 --> 0:17:01.330 It helped soften I brow a nice plite situation live 0:17:01.410 --> 0:17:03.570 in with our dad that we could hang out with 0:17:03.650 --> 0:17:04.410 Jason Gerald. 0:17:05.690 --> 0:17:08.249 Jason and Gerald were the only people with a window 0:17:08.330 --> 0:17:12.930 onto Kevin until lives. Quite literally, their apartment window looked 0:17:12.970 --> 0:17:15.050 directly in on Kevin and Tony's window. 0:17:15.530 --> 0:17:17.250 And I remember one time my bro and I would 0:17:17.250 --> 0:17:19.769 take a bath and we didn't have towels, and we 0:17:19.770 --> 0:17:22.689 were shivering, and we ran back to our bedroom and 0:17:22.730 --> 0:17:25.290 we were trying to put on our clothing, but it's 0:17:25.330 --> 0:17:28.409 really hard to put on clothing when your body sweat. 0:17:28.970 --> 0:17:31.090 And the next day, Jason Gerrold would come up to 0:17:31.169 --> 0:17:33.490 us and say, Hey, why were you and Tony dancing 0:17:33.530 --> 0:17:34.929 on your bed naked? 0:17:35.449 --> 0:17:37.210 Why didn't you guys have towels. 0:17:37.570 --> 0:17:38.130 I don't know. 0:17:38.209 --> 0:17:41.009 We just didn't have towels, you know. We didn't have 0:17:41.050 --> 0:17:44.489 a lot of things that kids. We didn't have a refrigerator. 0:17:44.609 --> 0:17:46.929 That's a wild one. That's hard to imagine, but the 0:17:46.970 --> 0:17:49.090 refrigerator would part of the dirty zone. 0:17:49.409 --> 0:17:50.689 And the refrigerator worked. 0:17:51.369 --> 0:17:53.369 I think it was plugged in. Yeah, we just couldn't 0:17:53.449 --> 0:17:57.290 use it. And so whenever we purchased food, we would 0:17:57.369 --> 0:18:01.249 have to consume it within that day, including a gallon 0:18:01.330 --> 0:18:05.809 of milk. My dad believed in giving us milk, and 0:18:06.449 --> 0:18:10.530 I remember my dad thought he had a genius idea. 0:18:10.689 --> 0:18:12.649 He didn't want to waste any of the milk, so 0:18:12.689 --> 0:18:16.209 he told me and my bro just jogging place outside 0:18:16.850 --> 0:18:19.209 so that we would want to drink more milk, and 0:18:19.290 --> 0:18:21.889 that Jim bowed very well, and we ended up vomiting 0:18:21.889 --> 0:18:25.770 on milk out there. I imagine if Gerald and Jason 0:18:25.889 --> 0:18:28.490 had been watching from their window, they'd have seen their 0:18:28.490 --> 0:18:31.290 little friends looking like they were in some milk sponsored 0:18:31.369 --> 0:18:34.929 version of boot camp. But no matter what unbelievable things 0:18:34.929 --> 0:18:38.090 they saw, and no matter what unbelievable things Kevin told 0:18:38.169 --> 0:18:42.410 them about off limit refrigerators or pens or couches, they 0:18:42.409 --> 0:18:46.770 didn't belittle him, didn't tease him. They accepted him. They 0:18:46.810 --> 0:18:51.129 never they never doubted me when I told him these things, 0:18:51.169 --> 0:18:52.689 I wholeheartedly believed it. 0:18:53.770 --> 0:18:55.810 At a time when Kevin and his brothers felt so 0:18:55.889 --> 0:19:00.209 doubtful of their own reality, so isolated, Jason and Gerald 0:19:00.290 --> 0:19:03.250 were not only allies, but a check on their sanity. 0:19:03.810 --> 0:19:07.330 They were always there until the day they weren't. 0:19:11.889 --> 0:19:14.450 Tony and I would go home one day and they 0:19:14.449 --> 0:19:17.249 were gone. They were just completely gone. Their home was 0:19:18.169 --> 0:19:18.810 cleared out. 0:19:20.169 --> 0:19:23.209 Kevin's father said that Jason and Gerald's mom had died, 0:19:23.770 --> 0:19:27.409 and so that very same afternoon, the boy's grandparents came 0:19:27.730 --> 0:19:30.489 and took Jason and Gerald away to live with them. 0:19:31.689 --> 0:19:38.449 Our friendship just suddenly severed. No farewell or anything like that. 0:19:39.530 --> 0:19:43.010 We just went from hanging out all the time, being 0:19:43.090 --> 0:19:47.530 best buddies to one day just not even seeing them. 0:19:51.970 --> 0:19:55.490 People had left Kevin's life before, but Gerald and Jason 0:19:55.570 --> 0:19:59.449 didn't leave. They vanished. And when someone vanished in the 0:19:59.490 --> 0:20:04.209 early nineteen nineties, they vanished. No cell phones, no emails, 0:20:04.929 --> 0:20:07.770 but the boys were always with him. Like in college, 0:20:07.889 --> 0:20:11.209 when Kevin's father died, his thoughts turned back to Jason 0:20:11.250 --> 0:20:14.409 and Gerald, how they must have felt losing their mom. 0:20:14.770 --> 0:20:17.209 Kevin's an adult now with a family and a career 0:20:17.250 --> 0:20:20.570 in biotech, Yet any time he's introduced to a Jason 0:20:20.730 --> 0:20:24.290 or a Gerald, his mind always leaps back to his Jason, 0:20:24.649 --> 0:20:28.810 his Gerald. So now thirty years later, Kevin wants to 0:20:28.889 --> 0:20:32.129 find them, the two boys who are the only witnesses 0:20:32.330 --> 0:20:35.449 to the hardest part of his and his brother Tony's life. 0:20:36.129 --> 0:20:38.929 I've always wondered about them, and what are you up to? 0:20:38.970 --> 0:20:39.050 You? 0:20:39.050 --> 0:20:42.050 Are you all right? How are they doing? First? 0:20:42.090 --> 0:20:45.369 And foremost, did he get over that kind of grief 0:20:45.369 --> 0:20:50.850 and loss, because I can't even imagine losing your soul 0:20:50.970 --> 0:20:56.169 parent at that age. Because he always referred to themselves 0:20:56.209 --> 0:21:00.409 as white trash. They called themselves that he did, yeah, 0:21:00.929 --> 0:21:05.249 always in a joking way. But every time I read about, like, 0:21:05.290 --> 0:21:11.530 for example, the opioid epidemic where a lot of rural 0:21:11.570 --> 0:21:23.009 whites were hammered, sometimes I wonder, are Jason and Gerald Okay? 0:21:24.090 --> 0:21:26.649 Do you ever wonder if they think about you as well? 0:21:26.730 --> 0:21:28.090 If they think about you and your brother? 0:21:29.449 --> 0:21:30.570 I do wonder about that. 0:21:31.770 --> 0:21:36.570 Yeah, I do wonder about that, but all that is secondary. 0:21:37.369 --> 0:21:40.090 If they're doing all right, I think that'll warm up 0:21:40.090 --> 0:21:43.449 my heart pretty well. If they're not doing all right, 0:21:44.970 --> 0:21:47.049 I want to see if I can help them out. 0:21:47.889 --> 0:21:52.649 You're at the minimum, maybe just say hi that I've 0:21:52.689 --> 0:21:57.369 just never forgotten about them, And if they've forgotten about 0:21:58.050 --> 0:22:04.409 myself with Tony, you know, that's fine, that's fine. I'd 0:22:04.449 --> 0:22:06.730 just be just happy to find out that they're doing 0:22:06.770 --> 0:22:11.210 all right with normal friends would probably want right. 0:22:12.649 --> 0:22:15.850 The problem is they were always just Jason and Gerald 0:22:15.889 --> 0:22:19.129 from across the way. Kevin doesn't know their last name 0:22:19.649 --> 0:22:22.249 and their mother's name, has also been lost to time, 0:22:22.889 --> 0:22:25.130 and although he does know the brothers went to live 0:22:25.129 --> 0:22:26.690 with their grandparents, I. 0:22:26.609 --> 0:22:30.169 Don't even know where to grandparents reside, except for one 0:22:31.010 --> 0:22:33.409 comment that Jason made a long time ago where he 0:22:33.490 --> 0:22:37.330 said that whenever he visits his grandparents, they would burn 0:22:37.770 --> 0:22:39.729 pine cones to keep warm. 0:22:40.889 --> 0:22:43.850 And that's why Kevin has come to me with just 0:22:43.929 --> 0:22:46.969 the names Jason and Gerald, hoping I can. 0:22:46.889 --> 0:22:52.970 Help, because I thought that your superpower investigative sleuthing abilities 0:22:53.730 --> 0:22:56.609 are going to be able to track them down again. 0:22:58.889 --> 0:23:03.690 After the break, my superpower investigative sleuthing abilities are put 0:23:03.730 --> 0:23:23.010 to the test. Kevin remembers his own address from back then, 0:23:23.490 --> 0:23:26.810 and clicking around on Google Maps, he's able to determine 0:23:26.889 --> 0:23:30.210 which house was Jason and Gerald's. But when my producer 0:23:30.330 --> 0:23:33.449 Khalila and I start digging, the only records we find 0:23:33.449 --> 0:23:37.490 are topsy turvy, dozens of people listed under the same address, 0:23:37.889 --> 0:23:42.330 the timelines overlapping and confusing ways, so without much else 0:23:42.369 --> 0:23:46.010 to go on, Khalila skims the records, searching for any 0:23:46.050 --> 0:23:49.129 single women who lived at Jason and Gerald's apartment number 0:23:49.209 --> 0:23:53.410 in the early nineties. Then using the surname she finds 0:23:53.810 --> 0:23:55.090 she starts styling. 0:24:00.169 --> 0:24:02.850 Hi, is this chasing? Hello? 0:24:03.090 --> 0:24:04.449 Is this chas? 0:24:04.929 --> 0:24:09.050 You got to watch? You know what to do later? Wow? 0:24:09.129 --> 0:24:11.689 I really fell for that voicemail. Hi, my name is 0:24:11.730 --> 0:24:16.729 Khalil Holt. I'm looking for a Jason who has named Jerald. 0:24:16.889 --> 0:24:21.689 Khalilaphones dozens and dozens of numbers, leaving messages for Jason's 0:24:21.689 --> 0:24:25.090 and Geralds across the nation. Many of the numbers she 0:24:25.169 --> 0:24:27.050 tries are disconnected entirely. 0:24:27.369 --> 0:24:29.249 We're sorry, you have reached the number that. 0:24:29.290 --> 0:24:32.049 If we're sorry, you have reached the number that we're sorry. 0:24:32.169 --> 0:24:35.690 We're sorry, We're sorry. And while some Geralds and Jason's 0:24:35.730 --> 0:24:37.050 do answer the phone. 0:24:37.010 --> 0:24:39.369 No, I had a dead mean jail, ma'am. 0:24:40.129 --> 0:24:42.570 To raise the technique, They're never the ones who we're 0:24:42.570 --> 0:24:43.050 looking for. 0:24:43.209 --> 0:24:45.169 Let's you're given away millions of dollars and then I 0:24:45.169 --> 0:24:48.330 can make it pino, ma'am, Mom, I'm sorry. I wish 0:24:48.369 --> 0:24:49.209 I could help you. 0:24:51.889 --> 0:24:55.209 One Jason does helpfully text that there's another guy with 0:24:55.290 --> 0:24:58.489