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Speaker 1: Pushkin Hey everyone, today's episode is a special one, but

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Speaker 1: at the same time it does deal with mental illness

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Speaker 1: and children in distressing situations, so take care when listening.

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Speaker 2: You reach Jackie, you leave me a message?

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Speaker 3: Do you plan? Lets you my message?

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Speaker 1: Jackie, I haven't heard from you in a while. I

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Speaker 1: thought maybe the adoration of American candidate isn't enough for you,

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Speaker 1: so I wanted you to hear all the peoples of

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Speaker 1: the world, all over the world who want to hear

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Speaker 1: your voice again. Here are a few of them, Jackie, Jackie.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jngles. I am from Cyprus, which is

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Speaker 1: mega far away from where you're from. Jackie, Jackie, Jackie.

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Speaker 1: This is Tracy recording voice message from London, England, Jackie.

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Speaker 3: Even here in little Switzerland, the despair is great.

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Speaker 1: Did Jackie. This is a song from Istanbul.

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Speaker 3: You are the only person who makes me laugh out loud.

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Speaker 1: You should definitely come back. You are the highlight of

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Speaker 1: the show. It means nothing without you.

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Speaker 3: Onid martez Iva Casine.

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Speaker 1: Love from Alto and New Zealand. Kinny Shelton, you have

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Speaker 1: a lovely rist of your day now. And this is

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Speaker 1: Jonathan from England wishing you Mary Saint peppins that Hello, oh,

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Speaker 1: I thought you picked up from Pushkin Industries. I'm Jonathan

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Speaker 1: Goldstein and this is Heavyweight Today's episode Kevin right after

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Speaker 1: the break. Kevin's email doesn't begin with any small talk,

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Speaker 1: no longtime listener, first time writer preamble. He gets right

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Speaker 1: into it. My little brother and I grew up destitute

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Speaker 1: Kevin Wrights in a public housing project in Sacramento. He

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Speaker 1: goes on to say that life back then was only

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Speaker 1: made bearable by the presence of two boys who live

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Speaker 1: next door, and this is why he's writing. Kevin hasn't

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Speaker 1: seen them in over thirty years, but he still hasn't

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Speaker 1: forgotten them. The two boys his friends, Jason and Gerald.

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Speaker 1: Can you hear me?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I can hear you.

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Speaker 1: Can you hear me?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Great?

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Speaker 1: The path that led him to Jason and Gerald is

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Speaker 1: long and circuitous. Kevin begins the tale back in the

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Speaker 1: third grade, sitting in class reading.

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Speaker 5: I would reading a book on the Kremlins.

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Speaker 1: Based on the movie.

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Speaker 5: Yeah to Cover was the theatrical poster of the movie,

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Speaker 5: and I remember it was during that moment that the

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Speaker 5: teacher just said, Hey, we got to go to the

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Speaker 5: principal's office. And when you're a kid, that's kind of

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Speaker 5: memorable because I thought, initially I was in serious trouble.

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Speaker 1: When Kevin arrived at the principal's office, his mom was there,

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Speaker 1: surrounded by his five siblings. She explained that she was

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Speaker 1: leaving their father and taking them all with her.

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Speaker 5: So, my dad has always been a real imposing, frightening figure,

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Speaker 5: because he would be everybody in the family if you

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Speaker 5: didn't really obey his commands. I never thought that he

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Speaker 5: was malicious, but that he beted us because we screwed

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Speaker 5: up somehow, one way or another. So he would whip

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Speaker 5: us with a metal clothes hangar, for example, or he

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Speaker 5: would pinch us, and when he pinched us, it would

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Speaker 5: go through the clothing and would leave like half dollar

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Speaker 5: sized welt of blue and purple and greenish colors.

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Speaker 1: One day, a neighbor, alarmed by a loud argument between

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Speaker 1: Kevin's parents, phoned the police, and Kevin's father was arrested.

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Speaker 1: He spent several days in jail, and when he returned

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Speaker 1: home he seemed different.

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Speaker 5: We didn't have the word mentally ill back then, but

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Speaker 5: we just talked amongst ourselves that he became crazy, and

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Speaker 5: by crazy, I mean like really crazy. Whatever he endured

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Speaker 5: in jail must have been so traumatic for my dad

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Speaker 5: and he invented a word at the time that everything

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Speaker 5: was dirty.

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Speaker 1: The dirty fixation began as soon as his father arrived

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Speaker 1: back home from jail. The first thing he did upon

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Speaker 1: his return was to ask for a box. He threw

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Speaker 1: every article of clothing he was wearing inside. Then, standing

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Speaker 1: naked before the family, he instructed his eldest son to

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Speaker 1: throw the clothes away.

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Speaker 5: And he goes up, he takes a shower, and when

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Speaker 5: he comes back down, he sees that my older bro

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Speaker 5: brought back the box.

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Speaker 3: He was telling my bro that why do you bring

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Speaker 3: the box back? Because the box is.

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Speaker 5: Dirty, But more importantly, how did you toss out the

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Speaker 5: dirty clothes?

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Speaker 3: And my bro said he.

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Speaker 5: Just grabbed it from the box and tossed it out,

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Speaker 5: basically indicating to my dad that my bro touched the

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Speaker 5: clothing himself. My dad just went cirtain. He just he

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Speaker 5: just beat my bro on the spot right there. But

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Speaker 5: that was the beginning of this crazy phase where my

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Speaker 5: dad just completely lost it.

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Speaker 1: His dad's new obsession only increased the tension between Kevin parents.

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Speaker 5: And every time they had arguments. We have no clue

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Speaker 5: what they were talking about because they spoke in Vietnamese,

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Speaker 5: and although that was my first native language, there was

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Speaker 5: a time where my dad thought that we weren't learning

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Speaker 5: English well enough. He forbade the usage of Vietnamese in

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Speaker 5: the house. Then again, if he heard anybody utter single

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Speaker 5: word of Vietnamese, he would beat us. And so we

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Speaker 5: dropped that quickly. But one of the arguments precipitated with

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Speaker 5: my dad grabbing a cleaver and he throws it across

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Speaker 5: the room and no one in particular, but it larged

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Speaker 5: hisself into the wall.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't long after that that Kevin, his mom, and

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Speaker 1: his siblings found themselves standing in the principal's office.

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Speaker 5: We went from the principal's office straight to what I

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Speaker 5: now know is woman's shelter.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember that first night that you spent there?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was great.

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Speaker 5: It just felt you wouldn't know anything imposing about the

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Speaker 5: shelter until you leave. That's when you see the eye

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Speaker 5: fences with the barber wire over the top. Almost looks

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Speaker 5: like a prison. But it was great insight. There's a

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Speaker 5: giant playground or tricycles there was a walk in pantry

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Speaker 5: that myself and my brother really loved if because you

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Speaker 5: could walk in and they're all these snacks and instant noodles.

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Speaker 1: But after a few weeks of feasting on instant noodles.

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Speaker 5: My mom just suddenly gathers all of us and she

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Speaker 5: had the paper grocery bag. She just tersely explains to

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Speaker 5: us that two of us, two of the six of

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Speaker 5: us kids, will have to return to my dad. She

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Speaker 5: can't take care of all of us, she cannot keep

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Speaker 5: all of us. And she said, as she wrote six

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Speaker 5: of our names on pieces of paper, and she put

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Speaker 5: all of our names in this paper bag, and she's

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Speaker 5: going to draw two names into two names, will be

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Speaker 5: two kids to have to return to my dad. And

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Speaker 5: I just remember my name with the first name to

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Speaker 5: be drawn, and I was just I was just shocked.

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Speaker 5: I don't know at the time I felt, I mean,

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Speaker 5: there were six of us, two names.

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Speaker 3: Were to be drawn.

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Speaker 5: I just thought that my odds were somewhat reasonable. But

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Speaker 5: looking back at it, I feel like my mom just

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Speaker 5: rigged the whole thing because she couldn't just say outright,

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Speaker 5: I want you Kevin, and I want your little bro

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Speaker 5: to go back to your dad because I feel that

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Speaker 5: the younger ones won't be able to cope. Well, your

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Speaker 5: dad's not going to be able to take care of them,

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Speaker 5: and she wanted to keep my older bro. He was

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Speaker 5: just the oldest one, favored one.

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Speaker 1: The plans lablished by the drawing of names from the

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Speaker 1: paper bag was that Kevin's oldest brother and the three

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Speaker 1: youngest kids would stay with their mom. Well, Kevin and

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Speaker 1: his middle brother, Tony would go live with their dad.

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Speaker 5: At the moment she drew my name, I lost my mom,

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Speaker 5: my siblings, and what hurt just as much was losing

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Speaker 5: my older bro. Dad looked up to him. I would

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Speaker 5: ask him all kinds of questions, everything from life to school.

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Speaker 5: What color you see when you die? And I still

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Speaker 5: remember his answer because he said, she don't see any

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Speaker 5: color when you're dead. But I asked him, what does

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Speaker 5: that mean? What is the color of no color? That

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Speaker 5: black or that white? He said, no, it's neither's no color.

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Speaker 5: To lose him in that one fell swoop when my

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Speaker 5: mom pulled out my name, let alone knowing that you

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Speaker 5: have to go back to your dad, who you're super

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Speaker 5: afraid of. When she drew my name, I remember I

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Speaker 5: wasn't the only one who was crying.

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Speaker 3: We all cried. We all cried.

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Speaker 1: Kevin now has three kids of his own, and in

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Speaker 1: raising them, he thinks back on that moment their hamster died.

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Speaker 5: They were crying, and my partner was telling me, Oh,

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Speaker 5: they're just kids, They're just kids, and they don't really

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Speaker 5: mean it. But when she said that, I remember I

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Speaker 5: cried to say around the same age when my name

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Speaker 5: was drawn from a paper bag, and that cry was

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Speaker 5: still the deepest cry I ever had in my life.

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Speaker 5: So I just remembered, No, I got to tend to

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Speaker 5: my kids. I'm going to bury the hamster in the backyard,

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Speaker 5: set a proper tombstone, and have a good farewell. I

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Speaker 5: don't think their cries are going to be any lighter

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Speaker 5: than their future cries when there adults.

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Speaker 3: I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: For the next several years, Kevin had almost no contact

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Speaker 1: with his mom and siblings. He says his mom would

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Speaker 1: sometimes drop off food at his dad's place, but she

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Speaker 1: was never allowed inside. Kevin was eight and Tony was six.

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Speaker 1: On the night they went back to live with their

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Speaker 1: dad at his apartment in a public housing project.

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Speaker 5: I remember he was drinking he's always drinking. I mean,

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Speaker 5: I've never seen him drink water in my life. He's

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Speaker 5: always drinking beer and eating peanuts. And that was actually

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Speaker 5: what he was doing when we came back in the

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Speaker 5: middle of the living room floor.

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Speaker 1: Although the living room contained a big, fluffy couch and

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Speaker 1: some school desks, their father wanted Kevin and Tony to

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Speaker 1: join him on a piece of cardboard he laid on

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Speaker 1: the cold linoleum floor. It turned out that since they'd

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Speaker 1: last seen him, their father's obsession had only intensified.

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Speaker 5: My dad set some rules. He said that don't ever

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Speaker 5: touch these dusts or to couch because they're now dirty.

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Speaker 5: I mean, we weren't going to question him. We didn't

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Speaker 5: want to get beaten, so we ended up doing exactly that.

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Speaker 5: A lot of these areas around the entire apartment just

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Speaker 5: became dirty, untouchable. Over time, A layer of dust accrued

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Speaker 5: everywhere that we were not allowed.

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Speaker 3: To touch or walk through.

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Speaker 5: I got this pen where a little thick pen with

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Speaker 5: a different colored tabs on the top were change from

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Speaker 5: black to blue red.

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Speaker 3: Remember those It was a really it.

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Speaker 5: Was a prized possession of minds. And I remember my dad,

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Speaker 5: my brother and I were on our living room floor again,

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Speaker 5: and my bro was holding the pen and he was

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Speaker 5: trying to change one of the colors, but it flung

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Speaker 5: out of his hands and twirled around, and it eventually

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Speaker 5: settled a few feet away from him in this dirty zone.

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Speaker 5: And at that moment that happened, as an eight nine

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Speaker 5: year old, I just knew that my pen was gone,

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Speaker 5: even though it's literally just three feet away from us.

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Speaker 5: My bro and I looked at each other. We both

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Speaker 5: looked at my dad, and my dad just gave us

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Speaker 5: that kind of solemn shake of his head like I'm sorry, boys,

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Speaker 5: but that's a terrible loss.

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Speaker 1: So you would just see the pen sitting there.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and then it would be absorbed by the dust.

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Speaker 5: Over time, it would just become covered with dust itself.

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Speaker 1: Even when their father wasn't home, Tony and Kevin didn't

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Speaker 1: dare step into the dirty zone.

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Speaker 5: I think we were also afraid because if you ventured

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Speaker 5: into one of dirty area, you would kind of leave

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Speaker 5: like literal footprints into that dusty area. It would be

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Speaker 5: pretty obvious. And so I remember one time a policeman

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Speaker 5: entered our home because there was some kind of robbery

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Speaker 5: and the cop was trying to find this person. And

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Speaker 5: I remember his face the moment he stepped in, like

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Speaker 5: holy crap, Like he was asking me, you guys live here,

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Speaker 5: and he was trying to search the house and I

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Speaker 5: was cleading with him. I was like, well, he don't,

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Speaker 5: don't go over there, don't open that door and be

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Speaker 5: that side closet was part of the dirty zone and

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Speaker 5: I didn't want to get in trouble. And thankfully I

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Speaker 5: remember the cop just acquiesced. When Kevin speaks of that

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Speaker 5: time in his life, it says an accumulation of losses,

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Speaker 5: the loss of his brothers and sister, his mom, the

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Speaker 5: loss of all the rules that made reality reality, which

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Speaker 5: is why he still remembers the one real gain from

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Speaker 5: that time.

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Speaker 1: Friends. Those boys, Jason and Gerald.

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Speaker 5: They were a white family living with their single mom.

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Speaker 5: Jason was witty and funny. Jerald was kind of goofy

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Speaker 5: looking but lovable.

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Speaker 1: Gerald was Tony's age, Jason was Kevin's. They had video

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Speaker 1: games and a mom who was nice to them. Every morning,

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Speaker 1: we will wake up, we go outside, just yell out.

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Speaker 3: Jason, Gerald, what are you up to?

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Speaker 5: And he would come back out, groggy eyed, wiping their eyes.

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Speaker 5: We would just hanging out all the time.

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Speaker 1: In a life that was filled with significant, often traumatic events.

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Speaker 1: The time Kevin and his brother spent with Jason and

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Speaker 1: Gerald was notable for just how unknotable it was. It

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Speaker 1: was simple and fun. It was time spent just being

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Speaker 1: a kid, building secret passageways out of cardboard boxes, racing

256
00:16:07,410 --> 00:16:11,410
Speaker 1: bugs through obstacle courses, and climbing the highway retention wall

257
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Speaker 1: to watch cars speed by. They swam at the public pool.

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Speaker 1: They played with firecrackers, blowing up snapper bottles in the park.

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Speaker 1: Then there were the comics Kevin made.

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Speaker 4: It might have been a smorgas board of different characters

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Speaker 4: I drew at the time, like one of the teenage

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Speaker 4: mutant Ninja Turtles, or Batman, or Bart and Garfieud or

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Speaker 4: all four of them in the same comic.

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Speaker 3: Who knew?

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Speaker 5: They offered me a quarter for every comic book I drew.

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Speaker 3: And gave it to them.

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Speaker 5: So I did that, and I needed the quarters to

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Speaker 5: buy myself candy. Hanging out with them was always a

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Speaker 5: blast for twelve hours a day.

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Speaker 1: Did you ever have friends like that before?

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Speaker 3: No? No, And it helped.

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Speaker 5: It helped soften I brow a nice plite situation live

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Speaker 5: in with our dad that we could hang out with

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Speaker 5: Jason Gerald.

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Speaker 1: Jason and Gerald were the only people with a window

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Speaker 1: onto Kevin until lives. Quite literally, their apartment window looked

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Speaker 1: directly in on Kevin and Tony's window.

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Speaker 5: And I remember one time my bro and I would

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Speaker 5: take a bath and we didn't have towels, and we

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Speaker 5: were shivering, and we ran back to our bedroom and

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Speaker 5: we were trying to put on our clothing, but it's

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Speaker 5: really hard to put on clothing when your body sweat.

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Speaker 5: And the next day, Jason Gerrold would come up to

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Speaker 5: us and say, Hey, why were you and Tony dancing

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Speaker 5: on your bed naked?

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00:17:35,449 --> 00:17:37,210
Speaker 1: Why didn't you guys have towels.

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00:17:37,570 --> 00:17:38,130
Speaker 3: I don't know.

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00:17:38,209 --> 00:17:41,009
Speaker 5: We just didn't have towels, you know. We didn't have

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Speaker 5: a lot of things that kids. We didn't have a refrigerator.

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Speaker 5: That's a wild one. That's hard to imagine, but the

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Speaker 5: refrigerator would part of the dirty zone.

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Speaker 1: And the refrigerator worked.

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Speaker 5: I think it was plugged in. Yeah, we just couldn't

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00:17:53,449 --> 00:17:57,290
Speaker 5: use it. And so whenever we purchased food, we would

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00:17:57,369 --> 00:18:01,249
Speaker 5: have to consume it within that day, including a gallon

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00:18:01,330 --> 00:18:05,809
Speaker 5: of milk. My dad believed in giving us milk, and

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00:18:06,449 --> 00:18:10,530
Speaker 5: I remember my dad thought he had a genius idea.

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Speaker 5: He didn't want to waste any of the milk, so

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Speaker 5: he told me and my bro just jogging place outside

300
00:18:16,850 --> 00:18:19,209
Speaker 5: so that we would want to drink more milk, and

301
00:18:19,290 --> 00:18:21,889
Speaker 5: that Jim bowed very well, and we ended up vomiting

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00:18:21,889 --> 00:18:25,770
Speaker 5: on milk out there. I imagine if Gerald and Jason

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Speaker 5: had been watching from their window, they'd have seen their

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00:18:28,490 --> 00:18:31,290
Speaker 5: little friends looking like they were in some milk sponsored

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00:18:31,369 --> 00:18:34,929
Speaker 5: version of boot camp. But no matter what unbelievable things

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00:18:34,929 --> 00:18:38,090
Speaker 5: they saw, and no matter what unbelievable things Kevin told

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00:18:38,169 --> 00:18:42,410
Speaker 5: them about off limit refrigerators or pens or couches, they

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00:18:42,409 --> 00:18:46,770
Speaker 5: didn't belittle him, didn't tease him. They accepted him. They

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Speaker 5: never they never doubted me when I told him these things,

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Speaker 5: I wholeheartedly believed it.

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Speaker 1: At a time when Kevin and his brothers felt so

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00:18:55,889 --> 00:19:00,209
Speaker 1: doubtful of their own reality, so isolated, Jason and Gerald

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00:19:00,290 --> 00:19:03,250
Speaker 1: were not only allies, but a check on their sanity.

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00:19:03,810 --> 00:19:07,330
Speaker 1: They were always there until the day they weren't.

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00:19:11,889 --> 00:19:14,450
Speaker 5: Tony and I would go home one day and they

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00:19:14,449 --> 00:19:17,249
Speaker 5: were gone. They were just completely gone. Their home was

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00:19:18,169 --> 00:19:18,810
Speaker 5: cleared out.

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00:19:20,169 --> 00:19:23,209
Speaker 1: Kevin's father said that Jason and Gerald's mom had died,

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00:19:23,770 --> 00:19:27,409
Speaker 1: and so that very same afternoon, the boy's grandparents came

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00:19:27,730 --> 00:19:30,489
Speaker 1: and took Jason and Gerald away to live with them.

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Speaker 5: Our friendship just suddenly severed. No farewell or anything like that.

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00:19:39,530 --> 00:19:43,010
Speaker 5: We just went from hanging out all the time, being

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Speaker 5: best buddies to one day just not even seeing them.

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Speaker 1: People had left Kevin's life before, but Gerald and Jason

325
00:19:55,570 --> 00:19:59,449
Speaker 1: didn't leave. They vanished. And when someone vanished in the

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00:19:59,490 --> 00:20:04,209
Speaker 1: early nineteen nineties, they vanished. No cell phones, no emails,

327
00:20:04,929 --> 00:20:07,770
Speaker 1: but the boys were always with him. Like in college,

328
00:20:07,889 --> 00:20:11,209
Speaker 1: when Kevin's father died, his thoughts turned back to Jason

329
00:20:11,250 --> 00:20:14,409
Speaker 1: and Gerald, how they must have felt losing their mom.

330
00:20:14,770 --> 00:20:17,209
Speaker 1: Kevin's an adult now with a family and a career

331
00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:20,570
Speaker 1: in biotech, Yet any time he's introduced to a Jason

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00:20:20,730 --> 00:20:24,290
Speaker 1: or a Gerald, his mind always leaps back to his Jason,

333
00:20:24,649 --> 00:20:28,810
Speaker 1: his Gerald. So now thirty years later, Kevin wants to

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00:20:28,889 --> 00:20:32,129
Speaker 1: find them, the two boys who are the only witnesses

335
00:20:32,330 --> 00:20:35,449
Speaker 1: to the hardest part of his and his brother Tony's life.

336
00:20:36,129 --> 00:20:38,929
Speaker 5: I've always wondered about them, and what are you up to?

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00:20:38,970 --> 00:20:39,050
Speaker 4: You?

338
00:20:39,050 --> 00:20:42,050
Speaker 3: Are you all right? How are they doing? First?

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00:20:42,090 --> 00:20:45,369
Speaker 5: And foremost, did he get over that kind of grief

340
00:20:45,369 --> 00:20:50,850
Speaker 5: and loss, because I can't even imagine losing your soul

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00:20:50,970 --> 00:20:56,169
Speaker 5: parent at that age. Because he always referred to themselves

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00:20:56,209 --> 00:21:00,409
Speaker 5: as white trash. They called themselves that he did, yeah,

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00:21:00,929 --> 00:21:05,249
Speaker 5: always in a joking way. But every time I read about, like,

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00:21:05,290 --> 00:21:11,530
Speaker 5: for example, the opioid epidemic where a lot of rural

345
00:21:11,570 --> 00:21:23,009
Speaker 5: whites were hammered, sometimes I wonder, are Jason and Gerald Okay?

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00:21:24,090 --> 00:21:26,649
Speaker 1: Do you ever wonder if they think about you as well?

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00:21:26,730 --> 00:21:28,090
Speaker 1: If they think about you and your brother?

348
00:21:29,449 --> 00:21:30,570
Speaker 3: I do wonder about that.

349
00:21:31,770 --> 00:21:36,570
Speaker 5: Yeah, I do wonder about that, but all that is secondary.

350
00:21:37,369 --> 00:21:40,090
Speaker 5: If they're doing all right, I think that'll warm up

351
00:21:40,090 --> 00:21:43,449
Speaker 5: my heart pretty well. If they're not doing all right,

352
00:21:44,970 --> 00:21:47,049
Speaker 5: I want to see if I can help them out.

353
00:21:47,889 --> 00:21:52,649
Speaker 5: You're at the minimum, maybe just say hi that I've

354
00:21:52,689 --> 00:21:57,369
Speaker 5: just never forgotten about them, And if they've forgotten about

355
00:21:58,050 --> 00:22:04,409
Speaker 5: myself with Tony, you know, that's fine, that's fine. I'd

356
00:22:04,449 --> 00:22:06,730
Speaker 5: just be just happy to find out that they're doing

357
00:22:06,770 --> 00:22:11,210
Speaker 5: all right with normal friends would probably want right.

358
00:22:12,649 --> 00:22:15,850
Speaker 1: The problem is they were always just Jason and Gerald

359
00:22:15,889 --> 00:22:19,129
Speaker 1: from across the way. Kevin doesn't know their last name

360
00:22:19,649 --> 00:22:22,249
Speaker 1: and their mother's name, has also been lost to time,

361
00:22:22,889 --> 00:22:25,130
Speaker 1: and although he does know the brothers went to live

362
00:22:25,129 --> 00:22:26,690
Speaker 1: with their grandparents, I.

363
00:22:26,609 --> 00:22:30,169
Speaker 5: Don't even know where to grandparents reside, except for one

364
00:22:31,010 --> 00:22:33,409
Speaker 5: comment that Jason made a long time ago where he

365
00:22:33,490 --> 00:22:37,330
Speaker 5: said that whenever he visits his grandparents, they would burn

366
00:22:37,770 --> 00:22:39,729
Speaker 5: pine cones to keep warm.

367
00:22:40,889 --> 00:22:43,850
Speaker 1: And that's why Kevin has come to me with just

368
00:22:43,929 --> 00:22:46,969
Speaker 1: the names Jason and Gerald, hoping I can.

369
00:22:46,889 --> 00:22:52,970
Speaker 5: Help, because I thought that your superpower investigative sleuthing abilities

370
00:22:53,730 --> 00:22:56,609
Speaker 5: are going to be able to track them down again.

371
00:22:58,889 --> 00:23:03,690
Speaker 1: After the break, my superpower investigative sleuthing abilities are put

372
00:23:03,730 --> 00:23:23,010
Speaker 1: to the test. Kevin remembers his own address from back then,

373
00:23:23,490 --> 00:23:26,810
Speaker 1: and clicking around on Google Maps, he's able to determine

374
00:23:26,889 --> 00:23:30,210
Speaker 1: which house was Jason and Gerald's. But when my producer

375
00:23:30,330 --> 00:23:33,449
Speaker 1: Khalila and I start digging, the only records we find

376
00:23:33,449 --> 00:23:37,490
Speaker 1: are topsy turvy, dozens of people listed under the same address,

377
00:23:37,889 --> 00:23:42,330
Speaker 1: the timelines overlapping and confusing ways, so without much else

378
00:23:42,369 --> 00:23:46,010
Speaker 1: to go on, Khalila skims the records, searching for any

379
00:23:46,050 --> 00:23:49,129
Speaker 1: single women who lived at Jason and Gerald's apartment number

380
00:23:49,209 --> 00:23:53,410
Speaker 1: in the early nineties. Then using the surname she finds

381
00:23:53,810 --> 00:23:55,090
Speaker 1: she starts styling.

382
00:24:00,169 --> 00:24:02,850
Speaker 3: Hi, is this chasing? Hello?

383
00:24:03,090 --> 00:24:04,449
Speaker 1: Is this chas?

384
00:24:04,929 --> 00:24:09,050
Speaker 3: You got to watch? You know what to do later? Wow?

385
00:24:09,129 --> 00:24:11,689
Speaker 3: I really fell for that voicemail. Hi, my name is

386
00:24:11,730 --> 00:24:16,729
Speaker 3: Khalil Holt. I'm looking for a Jason who has named Jerald.

387
00:24:16,889 --> 00:24:21,689
Speaker 1: Khalilaphones dozens and dozens of numbers, leaving messages for Jason's

388
00:24:21,689 --> 00:24:25,090
Speaker 1: and Geralds across the nation. Many of the numbers she

389
00:24:25,169 --> 00:24:27,050
Speaker 1: tries are disconnected entirely.

390
00:24:27,369 --> 00:24:29,249
Speaker 3: We're sorry, you have reached the number that.

391
00:24:29,290 --> 00:24:32,049
Speaker 2: If we're sorry, you have reached the number that we're sorry.

392
00:24:32,169 --> 00:24:35,690
Speaker 1: We're sorry, We're sorry. And while some Geralds and Jason's

393
00:24:35,730 --> 00:24:37,050
Speaker 1: do answer the phone.

394
00:24:37,010 --> 00:24:39,369
Speaker 3: No, I had a dead mean jail, ma'am.

395
00:24:40,129 --> 00:24:42,570
Speaker 1: To raise the technique, They're never the ones who we're

396
00:24:42,570 --> 00:24:43,050
Speaker 1: looking for.

397
00:24:43,209 --> 00:24:45,169
Speaker 3: Let's you're given away millions of dollars and then I

398
00:24:45,169 --> 00:24:48,330
Speaker 3: can make it pino, ma'am, Mom, I'm sorry. I wish

399
00:24:48,369 --> 00:24:49,209
Speaker 3: I could help you.

400
00:24:51,889 --> 00:24:55,209
Speaker 1: One Jason does helpfully text that there's another guy with

401
00:24:55,290 --> 00:24:58,489
Speaker 1: the same name a few towns over. I've spent a

402
00:24:58,609 --> 00:25:01,690
Speaker 1: night in jail for a warrant in his name. He writes,

403
00:25:02,330 --> 00:25:11,889
Speaker 1: Too bad, your podcast isn't about that. I figure the

404
00:25:11,929 --> 00:25:15,170
Speaker 1: local elementary school might have Jason and Gerald's last name

405
00:25:15,209 --> 00:25:18,130
Speaker 1: on file, so I give them a call and I'm

406
00:25:18,129 --> 00:25:21,529
Speaker 1: put on hold. It might give me a chance to

407
00:25:21,570 --> 00:25:27,050
Speaker 1: do a little bit of freestyling while I'm waiting. Jason,

408
00:25:27,609 --> 00:25:32,730
Speaker 1: He's got a brother, Gerald, Thanks thankfully. I'm interrupted by

409
00:25:32,770 --> 00:25:36,090
Speaker 1: the receptionist. She sends me to the district office.

410
00:25:36,449 --> 00:25:43,330
Speaker 2: Visit our website at h tt ps colon forward slash.

411
00:25:43,050 --> 00:25:45,609
Speaker 1: Forward slash and all the district office has.

412
00:25:45,490 --> 00:25:49,250
Speaker 2: To offer EDU One forward slash.

413
00:25:49,010 --> 00:25:51,570
Speaker 1: Is a web address straight out of the mid nineties.

414
00:25:51,770 --> 00:25:57,450
Speaker 2: Enrollment hyphen center hyphen tk hyphen.

415
00:25:58,250 --> 00:26:01,449
Speaker 1: We search obituaries, thinking we might find one for Jason

416
00:26:01,449 --> 00:26:05,249
Speaker 1: and Gerald's mom. We post in neighborhood facebook groups. We

417
00:26:05,369 --> 00:26:10,449
Speaker 1: tryphoning neighbors, messaging old classmates, submitting a research request at

418
00:26:10,490 --> 00:26:19,409
Speaker 1: the public library. Nothing comes of any of it. After

419
00:26:19,449 --> 00:26:22,609
Speaker 1: two months of dead ends, Kevin returns to the housing

420
00:26:22,649 --> 00:26:25,649
Speaker 1: project to look for new leads. One of the last

421
00:26:25,649 --> 00:26:28,009
Speaker 1: times he went back was to show his wife and

422
00:26:28,090 --> 00:26:30,850
Speaker 1: three kids where he grew up, but the kids were

423
00:26:30,850 --> 00:26:33,290
Speaker 1: too scared of the neighborhood to get out of the car.

424
00:26:34,090 --> 00:26:37,050
Speaker 1: This time he goes alone, and it's while walking by

425
00:26:37,090 --> 00:26:41,249
Speaker 1: his old building that Kevin has a realization. For Jason

426
00:26:41,290 --> 00:26:43,689
Speaker 1: and Gerald to have seen him and Tony through the

427
00:26:43,730 --> 00:26:47,850
Speaker 1: window getting dressed without towels that day, their address would

428
00:26:47,850 --> 00:26:50,810
Speaker 1: have to have been not the one he'd originally told me,

429
00:26:51,330 --> 00:26:55,609
Speaker 1: but actually one apartment over. And that new fact makes

430
00:26:55,649 --> 00:27:00,730
Speaker 1: all the difference. Amazingly, we've been able to triangulate who

431
00:27:00,770 --> 00:27:03,570
Speaker 1: these guys are, Who Jason and Gerroalld are really? Yeah,

432
00:27:04,050 --> 00:27:09,770
Speaker 1: no way, yes, wow. But just when you mole one

433
00:27:09,850 --> 00:27:13,090
Speaker 1: problem in this life, a new problem rears its ugly

434
00:27:13,169 --> 00:27:16,970
Speaker 1: mole head. Even though we found Jason and Gerald, we're

435
00:27:16,970 --> 00:27:20,570
Speaker 1: not hearing back from Jason and Gerald. After sending both

436
00:27:20,609 --> 00:27:25,689
Speaker 1: brothers letters, Gerald bounces back and Jason's goes unanswered. I

437
00:27:25,730 --> 00:27:30,330
Speaker 1: try Jason on LinkedIn, but still nothing. Maybe the name

438
00:27:30,449 --> 00:27:33,929
Speaker 1: Kevin no longer means anything to them, Maybe they forgot

439
00:27:33,970 --> 00:27:40,449
Speaker 1: the friendship altogether. I can't find a phone number for

440
00:27:40,530 --> 00:27:44,050
Speaker 1: Gerald or Jason, but I do find one for Jason's wife,

441
00:27:44,530 --> 00:27:47,090
Speaker 1: and so I leave her a voicemail. When I get

442
00:27:47,090 --> 00:27:51,209
Speaker 1: no response, I try texting. Still no response. So I

443
00:27:51,290 --> 00:27:54,609
Speaker 1: call again and this time the phone doesn't even ring.

444
00:27:55,490 --> 00:27:58,649
Speaker 1: Fearing my number has been blocked, I ask Kevin to phone,

445
00:27:59,129 --> 00:28:01,330
Speaker 1: but when he tries to leave a message.

446
00:28:01,409 --> 00:28:05,570
Speaker 3: My name is Kevin. I've been shoudhood friends with Jason

447
00:28:05,770 --> 00:28:06,449
Speaker 3: and his brother.

448
00:28:08,449 --> 00:28:11,889
Speaker 4: Oh. I couldn't even leave a voicemail.

449
00:28:12,730 --> 00:28:16,169
Speaker 1: It's no longer feeling like Jason is simply forgotten. It

450
00:28:16,290 --> 00:28:21,490
Speaker 1: feels like he emphatically doesn't want to talk. Although Jason's

451
00:28:21,490 --> 00:28:24,210
Speaker 1: a no go, I still have one more shot at

452
00:28:24,250 --> 00:28:28,489
Speaker 1: reaching the younger brother Gerald. He has a Facebook, So

453
00:28:28,609 --> 00:28:31,250
Speaker 1: this is where I'm thinking, like, maybe the most direct

454
00:28:31,530 --> 00:28:34,330
Speaker 1: way to do it would be for you to reach out.

455
00:28:35,050 --> 00:28:35,850
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't mind.

456
00:28:35,929 --> 00:28:39,170
Speaker 5: It's just that I don't even have a Facebook account,

457
00:28:39,250 --> 00:28:42,450
Speaker 5: but I can definitely make an account, I suppose.

458
00:28:43,610 --> 00:28:46,410
Speaker 1: When we check back in the next day, Kevin tells

459
00:28:46,450 --> 00:28:50,930
Speaker 1: me that he made a profile and added one single friend, Gerald,

460
00:28:51,250 --> 00:28:51,570
Speaker 1: and I.

461
00:28:51,570 --> 00:28:54,249
Speaker 5: Just sent him a message, are you to Gerald with

462
00:28:54,250 --> 00:28:57,850
Speaker 5: the brother Jason dis It's Kevin with the little bro Tony.

463
00:28:58,370 --> 00:29:00,930
Speaker 5: We should live right across Meshuther and we were really

464
00:29:00,970 --> 00:29:04,450
Speaker 5: good friends, and he just replied immediately.

465
00:29:22,930 --> 00:29:26,330
Speaker 1: It's been an eventful twenty four hours. For the first

466
00:29:26,370 --> 00:29:29,610
Speaker 1: time in over thirty years, Kevin and his friend Gerald

467
00:29:29,610 --> 00:29:32,850
Speaker 1: are back in touch. The two have been exchanging messages

468
00:29:32,890 --> 00:29:35,050
Speaker 1: at a rapid pace since last night.

469
00:29:35,570 --> 00:29:41,050
Speaker 5: I'm still digesting all of this real time. Apparently Gerald

470
00:29:41,130 --> 00:29:44,730
Speaker 5: is in the East Coast right now. He's been homeless

471
00:29:44,810 --> 00:29:50,610
Speaker 5: for three years, but he said that he's got no problems,

472
00:29:51,570 --> 00:29:56,209
Speaker 5: been staying out of trouble. He only smokes cigarettes and

473
00:29:56,530 --> 00:30:01,610
Speaker 5: sparingly drinks. He stayed away from the hard drugs. Oh

474
00:30:01,690 --> 00:30:04,050
Speaker 5: and I wanted to talk to him over the phone

475
00:30:04,090 --> 00:30:07,769
Speaker 5: because I'm just I'm a big fan of texting, but

476
00:30:07,850 --> 00:30:09,810
Speaker 5: he said that he doesn't have a cell phone. He

477
00:30:09,890 --> 00:30:13,810
Speaker 5: lost it while traveling through Maryland. And he only has

478
00:30:13,890 --> 00:30:19,090
Speaker 5: asked us to Facebook messenger, brought her Internet while at

479
00:30:19,090 --> 00:30:22,890
Speaker 5: the library. So yeah, it's just quite a bit to digest.

480
00:30:22,930 --> 00:30:25,009
Speaker 5: Owen he mentioned Jason.

481
00:30:26,090 --> 00:30:28,530
Speaker 1: One of the first things Jerald did after hearing from

482
00:30:28,610 --> 00:30:32,489
Speaker 1: Kevin was to message Jason. Gerald shared the message he

483
00:30:32,530 --> 00:30:35,170
Speaker 1: sent his brother. I can just read it out, He said,

484
00:30:35,209 --> 00:30:38,969
Speaker 1: how are you, brother? He won't believe this. Remember Tony

485
00:30:38,970 --> 00:30:41,410
Speaker 1: and Kevin when we were living with Mom and Sacramento

486
00:30:41,450 --> 00:30:44,410
Speaker 1: as kids. They are reaching out to us to get

487
00:30:44,450 --> 00:30:47,810
Speaker 1: to know us again and connect. We are catching up.

488
00:30:48,250 --> 00:30:51,810
Speaker 1: It makes me so happy to talk to Kevin. It's crazy.

489
00:30:56,490 --> 00:31:00,050
Speaker 1: Jason responded to his brother's message, saying he remembered Kevin

490
00:31:00,090 --> 00:31:03,290
Speaker 1: and Tony fondly. It turns out he was well aware

491
00:31:03,410 --> 00:31:05,850
Speaker 1: Kevin had been looking for him. He'd gotten all those

492
00:31:05,890 --> 00:31:08,610
Speaker 1: messages left for his wife, but he didn't want to

493
00:31:08,650 --> 00:31:15,130
Speaker 1: revisit that time. In the months to come, Kevin keeps

494
00:31:15,170 --> 00:31:17,729
Speaker 1: the messenger app on his phone so he and his

495
00:31:17,850 --> 00:31:21,209
Speaker 1: one Facebook friend can send long messages back and forth,

496
00:31:21,730 --> 00:31:23,730
Speaker 1: and eventually, five months.

497
00:31:23,530 --> 00:31:27,249
Speaker 3: Later, hey your old Hey Kevin did.

498
00:31:27,930 --> 00:31:31,010
Speaker 1: Gerald gets a new phone and a conversation is arranged.

499
00:31:31,490 --> 00:31:34,810
Speaker 3: The last time we've ever heard each other. We were

500
00:31:34,850 --> 00:31:39,250
Speaker 3: just kids, also, thirty four years ago. I remember exactly

501
00:31:39,250 --> 00:31:41,370
Speaker 3: how you look when you were a kid. You were

502
00:31:41,410 --> 00:31:44,490
Speaker 3: slightly taller than me, with black hair. You had a freckle.

503
00:31:45,130 --> 00:31:47,730
Speaker 3: I think you had a freckle under your left eye.

504
00:31:48,130 --> 00:31:52,250
Speaker 3: Yeah I do. I'm actually looking at you right now.

505
00:31:52,330 --> 00:31:55,010
Speaker 3: It through my mind's eye. Remember when we hung out

506
00:31:55,090 --> 00:31:57,969
Speaker 3: at your place? Oh, my gosh. Yeah, all we do

507
00:31:58,050 --> 00:32:01,570
Speaker 3: is play video games. I remember you and Tony were

508
00:32:01,610 --> 00:32:05,250
Speaker 3: so good at playing video games. Oh. I would watch

509
00:32:05,330 --> 00:32:08,490
Speaker 3: you guys for hours. One time we had this game Rygar,

510
00:32:09,209 --> 00:32:13,170
Speaker 3: remember that's right, yea, And for like four or five

511
00:32:13,290 --> 00:32:16,050
Speaker 3: hours you played it. And you ended up beating it,

512
00:32:16,530 --> 00:32:19,210
Speaker 3: and my jaw was just floored, you know.

513
00:32:19,130 --> 00:32:23,009
Speaker 4: Why though we didn't have anything else to do, Me

514
00:32:23,130 --> 00:32:27,890
Speaker 4: and Tony literally we were just in that place in

515
00:32:27,970 --> 00:32:30,650
Speaker 4: the at home and we didn't have anything.

516
00:32:31,530 --> 00:32:40,650
Speaker 3: Oh we knew that too. I remember you guys came

517
00:32:40,690 --> 00:32:45,050
Speaker 3: over once, right. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy because I actually

518
00:32:45,090 --> 00:32:48,330
Speaker 3: still remembered the inside of your house. You remember, like,

519
00:32:48,410 --> 00:32:49,410
Speaker 3: did it look crazy?

520
00:32:50,209 --> 00:32:55,890
Speaker 6: It looked like it looked like conted house because I

521
00:32:55,930 --> 00:33:02,090
Speaker 6: remember it was dusty, like not necessarily not necessarily unclean.

522
00:33:02,209 --> 00:33:04,850
Speaker 3: Unclean's not the work, but it was like nobody lived there.

523
00:33:05,130 --> 00:33:07,170
Speaker 3: You remember the backyard that we hung out. I had

524
00:33:07,209 --> 00:33:10,410
Speaker 3: the closed lines. Yeah, we'd swing on them.

525
00:33:10,770 --> 00:33:13,170
Speaker 5: Yeah they're gone. Yeah, I guess every unit has a

526
00:33:13,290 --> 00:33:13,930
Speaker 5: dryer now.

527
00:33:14,290 --> 00:33:18,730
Speaker 4: Wow, And everything seemed a whole lot smaller.

528
00:33:19,450 --> 00:33:21,249
Speaker 3: It just surprised me. She get it.

529
00:33:21,290 --> 00:33:24,250
Speaker 5: I just thought everything was way bigger. But I think

530
00:33:24,290 --> 00:33:26,249
Speaker 5: we were just so small.

531
00:33:31,650 --> 00:33:34,850
Speaker 3: You know, growing up with you, I always thought that

532
00:33:34,970 --> 00:33:37,769
Speaker 3: you would have become like a comic book artist, like

533
00:33:37,770 --> 00:33:41,769
Speaker 3: a professional one. I mean I would pay you a

534
00:33:41,850 --> 00:33:44,690
Speaker 3: quarter apiece for them because I like them so much.

535
00:33:45,090 --> 00:33:47,370
Speaker 5: Remember how you would always bug me about what's the

536
00:33:47,410 --> 00:33:48,370
Speaker 5: next issue coming out?

537
00:33:48,410 --> 00:33:52,209
Speaker 3: When the next issue? Yeah, yes, Oh my gosh, you

538
00:33:52,370 --> 00:33:54,770
Speaker 3: have no idea. They were so good. They were so

539
00:33:54,770 --> 00:33:55,330
Speaker 3: so good.

540
00:33:56,650 --> 00:34:00,530
Speaker 1: All these decades later, Gerald still remembers the specific Bart

541
00:34:00,570 --> 00:34:01,730
Speaker 1: Simpson plotlines.

542
00:34:01,930 --> 00:34:06,769
Speaker 3: There was an electrical monster that bartman would you'd make them. Oh,

543
00:34:06,890 --> 00:34:10,170
Speaker 3: I just unlocked the old memory. I hadn't thought about.

544
00:34:10,530 --> 00:34:14,650
Speaker 3: You would use your old tests and papers from school,

545
00:34:15,050 --> 00:34:17,890
Speaker 3: and you'd pull them in a way where the backside

546
00:34:17,890 --> 00:34:20,730
Speaker 3: would be the comic book, and I could unfold them

547
00:34:20,850 --> 00:34:25,410
Speaker 3: and i'd see your work for school. I didn't realize that.

548
00:34:25,530 --> 00:34:28,850
Speaker 5: Yeah, but that would make sense because I wouldn't have

549
00:34:28,930 --> 00:34:31,530
Speaker 5: assets of paper anyways.

550
00:34:32,010 --> 00:34:35,250
Speaker 3: And I held onto those for like fifteen years.

551
00:34:35,970 --> 00:34:39,010
Speaker 1: It turns out Gerald was out there looking back just

552
00:34:39,090 --> 00:34:40,250
Speaker 1: as much as Kevin was.

553
00:34:41,130 --> 00:34:44,210
Speaker 3: I always thought of you too. Making friends with you,

554
00:34:44,250 --> 00:34:47,290
Speaker 3: guys was just a big breath of fresh air. I mean,

555
00:34:47,770 --> 00:34:51,250
Speaker 3: at school, I was never able to make real friends.

556
00:34:51,850 --> 00:34:53,970
Speaker 3: A lot of the kids were actually really meant. I

557
00:34:53,970 --> 00:34:58,490
Speaker 3: got beat up a lot. But I had Kevin Tony

558
00:34:58,650 --> 00:35:01,530
Speaker 3: right across from me. I mean those were my friends.

559
00:35:01,570 --> 00:35:03,970
Speaker 3: Those are the only two friends I actually had growing up.

560
00:35:05,050 --> 00:35:08,890
Speaker 3: I really really never made that kind of connection again.

561
00:35:15,610 --> 00:35:19,330
Speaker 3: How you doing, man. Oh, I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm

562
00:35:19,370 --> 00:35:22,970
Speaker 3: happy in life isn't really what I thought it would be,

563
00:35:23,090 --> 00:35:25,250
Speaker 3: what it turned out to be, but it turned out okay,

564
00:35:25,850 --> 00:35:28,530
Speaker 3: and I am myself and I'm happy. It's not like

565
00:35:28,610 --> 00:35:31,650
Speaker 3: I'm living a life where I wake up and go

566
00:35:31,770 --> 00:35:34,570
Speaker 3: to work and realize I'm unhappy, but just do the

567
00:35:34,610 --> 00:35:38,490
Speaker 3: same thing every other day. I'm kind of just free

568
00:35:38,530 --> 00:35:44,250
Speaker 3: and by myself. Now, you seem to be doing pretty resiliently.

569
00:35:45,210 --> 00:35:49,650
Speaker 3: That's the word resilient. Really. When you first become homeless,

570
00:35:49,650 --> 00:35:52,690
Speaker 3: it's scary, you know, but it's kind of an adapt

571
00:35:52,770 --> 00:35:56,730
Speaker 3: or die kind of scenario. And one thing I found

572
00:35:56,730 --> 00:36:01,290
Speaker 3: out about being homeless is it's a bit easier if

573
00:36:01,290 --> 00:36:04,370
Speaker 3: you can blend in with other homeless people. If you

574
00:36:04,370 --> 00:36:08,570
Speaker 3: can find an area that has resources and other homeless people,

575
00:36:08,690 --> 00:36:12,370
Speaker 3: you're more were likely to survive better and not be

576
00:36:12,450 --> 00:36:15,770
Speaker 3: a target because it's pretty dangerous being homeless. People don't

577
00:36:15,850 --> 00:36:16,690
Speaker 3: like homeless people.

578
00:36:17,410 --> 00:36:19,010
Speaker 1: Did you find yourself targeted?

579
00:36:19,930 --> 00:36:25,370
Speaker 3: Yes, a lot. I've gotten beat up a few times,

580
00:36:25,730 --> 00:36:28,170
Speaker 3: but I've also been helped too. I've had a lot

581
00:36:28,210 --> 00:36:32,210
Speaker 3: of Christians help me, which is something amazing. A lot

582
00:36:32,210 --> 00:36:34,850
Speaker 3: of people helped me on my way. Good people.

583
00:36:36,050 --> 00:36:38,770
Speaker 1: Gerald had been living beneath an underpass in DC for

584
00:36:38,770 --> 00:36:41,770
Speaker 1: about a year, but a few months ago he decided

585
00:36:41,810 --> 00:36:43,530
Speaker 1: to return home to California.

586
00:36:44,090 --> 00:36:47,450
Speaker 3: I'd gotten to a point where I had no contact

587
00:36:47,490 --> 00:36:51,410
Speaker 3: with my kids, and I missed them, and I just

588
00:36:51,450 --> 00:36:53,850
Speaker 3: needed to see them. And I knew if I if

589
00:36:53,850 --> 00:36:56,650
Speaker 3: I stay gone, if I'm just out there in the world,

590
00:36:56,730 --> 00:36:59,090
Speaker 3: I'll never have a relationship with my kids if I

591
00:36:59,130 --> 00:37:02,090
Speaker 3: don't come back. Now. I need to see my boys.

592
00:37:02,610 --> 00:37:07,170
Speaker 3: I need to tell them I love them. The strange

593
00:37:07,210 --> 00:37:13,330
Speaker 3: thing is the very day that they initiated the sweeping

594
00:37:13,410 --> 00:37:17,250
Speaker 3: of the homeless and DC was today. I had a

595
00:37:17,290 --> 00:37:19,890
Speaker 3: bus ticket to come back to California, so I was

596
00:37:19,930 --> 00:37:22,450
Speaker 3: getting on a bus right when the troops were coming

597
00:37:22,930 --> 00:37:24,770
Speaker 3: into DC. Like the day.

598
00:37:25,690 --> 00:37:28,810
Speaker 1: Gerald explains he'd started going to church with another friend

599
00:37:28,850 --> 00:37:31,730
Speaker 1: who was homeless, and that the church helped him scramble

600
00:37:31,770 --> 00:37:34,850
Speaker 1: together enough money for a ticket back home to his kids.

601
00:37:35,050 --> 00:37:37,370
Speaker 3: And I'm grateful that I was able to leave, because

602
00:37:37,810 --> 00:37:39,650
Speaker 3: I don't know what happened to all the homeless people.

603
00:37:39,690 --> 00:37:42,650
Speaker 3: There were hundreds of homeless people when I was in DC,

604
00:37:42,850 --> 00:37:45,050
Speaker 3: all in that area, and they were all dealing with

605
00:37:45,130 --> 00:37:48,250
Speaker 3: the same thing. It was very sad to see some

606
00:37:48,330 --> 00:37:53,050
Speaker 3: were genuinely crazy, some were playing the system, and others

607
00:37:53,090 --> 00:37:56,810
Speaker 3: were just emotionally distraught. Something happened in their family, like

608
00:37:56,850 --> 00:38:00,290
Speaker 3: a kid died, and they just couldn't pull themselves out.

609
00:38:00,970 --> 00:38:04,690
Speaker 1: Can you say, like, what led you into that situation?

610
00:38:06,730 --> 00:38:12,810
Speaker 3: Yeah, heartbreak and lack of My wife left me about

611
00:38:12,850 --> 00:38:17,410
Speaker 3: four years ago now, and honestly, it just got to

612
00:38:17,450 --> 00:38:22,930
Speaker 3: a point where I realized that if I didn't actually

613
00:38:22,930 --> 00:38:26,250
Speaker 3: go away for a while, that her heart can't mend,

614
00:38:26,890 --> 00:38:30,210
Speaker 3: where she couldn't grow and become herself. So I needed

615
00:38:30,250 --> 00:38:33,130
Speaker 3: to just leave the whole area, and I needed to

616
00:38:33,170 --> 00:38:36,290
Speaker 3: do something for myself. I needed to go see the world.

617
00:38:36,330 --> 00:38:37,730
Speaker 3: I needed to go walk.

618
00:38:39,050 --> 00:38:41,410
Speaker 1: Is that how you traveled? By walking?

619
00:38:42,370 --> 00:38:43,290
Speaker 3: Mostly? Yeah?

620
00:38:43,490 --> 00:38:44,530
Speaker 1: From state to state.

621
00:38:45,370 --> 00:38:49,850
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well I would get rides. Of course, I wouldn't hitchhike,

622
00:38:49,850 --> 00:38:52,890
Speaker 3: I wouldn't put my thumb out, but I would walk

623
00:38:52,970 --> 00:38:56,850
Speaker 3: and eventually somebody would pull over and ask me if

624
00:38:56,850 --> 00:38:58,650
Speaker 3: I needed a ride.

625
00:38:58,930 --> 00:39:01,290
Speaker 1: Gerald tells me that after his wife left him, he

626
00:39:01,410 --> 00:39:03,770
Speaker 1: was living in his truck, but when he decided to

627
00:39:03,850 --> 00:39:06,610
Speaker 1: leave California, he swapped cars with a friend.

628
00:39:07,130 --> 00:39:11,450
Speaker 3: I traded him straight up for his Gelope car. For

629
00:39:11,730 --> 00:39:14,930
Speaker 3: my nice Toyota truck. I couldn't find work. I couldn't

630
00:39:14,970 --> 00:39:17,450
Speaker 3: find a job, I couldn't find money for my gas tank.

631
00:39:17,890 --> 00:39:21,050
Speaker 3: So I could either leave my truck on the side

632
00:39:21,090 --> 00:39:24,570
Speaker 3: of the road and have it impounded and lost, or

633
00:39:24,610 --> 00:39:27,770
Speaker 3: I could give it away somebody I love and try

634
00:39:27,810 --> 00:39:32,370
Speaker 3: to find my way on foot. So I chose to

635
00:39:32,370 --> 00:39:37,210
Speaker 3: give it to my friend Josh, and I drove his

636
00:39:37,610 --> 00:39:41,130
Speaker 3: car up through the Sierra Nevadas into Nevada, and then

637
00:39:41,170 --> 00:39:43,530
Speaker 3: when it ran out of gas, I just started walking.

638
00:39:44,810 --> 00:39:48,050
Speaker 1: For the next several years, Gerald traveled all over the country.

639
00:39:48,570 --> 00:39:53,050
Speaker 1: From Nevada, he went to Kansas, then Oregon, Alaska, Tennessee,

640
00:39:53,450 --> 00:39:57,810
Speaker 1: and eventually Washington, DC. And now he's back in California,

641
00:39:58,010 --> 00:39:59,610
Speaker 1: spending most of his time camping.

642
00:40:00,010 --> 00:40:01,810
Speaker 3: So I'm just sitting up on a mountain right now,

643
00:40:01,810 --> 00:40:05,810
Speaker 3: looking down at a river. Honestly, even being back here

644
00:40:05,810 --> 00:40:10,410
Speaker 3: in California, I kind of realized that I may end

645
00:40:10,490 --> 00:40:13,050
Speaker 3: up staying homeless. I don't have a lot of options,

646
00:40:14,210 --> 00:40:17,850
Speaker 3: but I realize I'm just happier being halfway out of

647
00:40:17,890 --> 00:40:20,410
Speaker 3: the system, or one foot in, one foot out. I

648
00:40:20,410 --> 00:40:24,970
Speaker 3: guess I'm more comfortable just being alone in the crowd

649
00:40:24,970 --> 00:40:27,370
Speaker 3: of people. So like being up here in the mountains

650
00:40:27,370 --> 00:40:29,970
Speaker 3: where I'm at right now, it's just wonderful. I mean

651
00:40:30,050 --> 00:40:32,610
Speaker 3: there's nobody around, nobody.

652
00:40:33,890 --> 00:40:36,450
Speaker 1: Gerald looks after his kids a few days every week,

653
00:40:36,730 --> 00:40:39,450
Speaker 1: staying at his ex wife's house. It's a relief to

654
00:40:39,490 --> 00:40:43,490
Speaker 1: see them again, his two boys, seven and thirteen.

655
00:40:43,650 --> 00:40:45,810
Speaker 3: And they're fine. And they missed me.

656
00:40:46,570 --> 00:40:48,730
Speaker 4: I would think that they would miss he. I mean,

657
00:40:49,090 --> 00:40:52,570
Speaker 4: you can't. Yeah, you can't ever replace the.

658
00:40:52,690 --> 00:40:56,810
Speaker 1: Parent, something both Kevin and Gerald know all too well.

659
00:40:57,730 --> 00:41:03,050
Speaker 4: I just remember taking that news that your mom had

660
00:41:03,130 --> 00:41:08,210
Speaker 4: passed and that you two just gone, that were coming back,

661
00:41:09,330 --> 00:41:12,170
Speaker 4: and Tony and I we were both.

662
00:41:12,450 --> 00:41:18,529
Speaker 5: And we cried. We were heartbroken. We lost our two

663
00:41:18,570 --> 00:41:21,810
Speaker 5: best friends. They didn't even get to say goodbye.

664
00:41:23,570 --> 00:41:27,130
Speaker 3: It was so suddenly, oh in one day. Yeah, yeah,

665
00:41:27,490 --> 00:41:31,690
Speaker 3: And we were always wondering what happened? Do your mom?

666
00:41:31,890 --> 00:41:35,770
Speaker 3: Do you two? I could tell you the story from

667
00:41:35,770 --> 00:41:36,170
Speaker 3: the start.

668
00:41:37,570 --> 00:41:40,890
Speaker 1: As a kid, making sense of what happened, Kevin assumed

669
00:41:41,010 --> 00:41:44,090
Speaker 1: maybe Jason and Gerald's mom had a heart attack, but

670
00:41:44,170 --> 00:41:47,090
Speaker 1: Gerald says no, that his mom had a heroin addiction.

671
00:41:47,810 --> 00:41:51,570
Speaker 3: When I was like six. It came across a leather

672
00:41:51,770 --> 00:41:55,529
Speaker 3: glove with a needle inside the couch. When I pulled

673
00:41:55,610 --> 00:41:58,090
Speaker 3: up the couch cushion and I brought it to my

674
00:41:58,170 --> 00:42:02,730
Speaker 3: mom and said, Mommy, what's this And she slapped my

675
00:42:02,770 --> 00:42:04,650
Speaker 3: hand and took it from me, and she said, never

676
00:42:04,730 --> 00:42:08,370
Speaker 3: touch that again. Don't dig in there. Okay, that's Mom's

677
00:42:08,730 --> 00:42:12,370
Speaker 3: that poke you and hurt you. So I knew. I

678
00:42:12,450 --> 00:42:16,010
Speaker 3: knew about it, but I didn't know what it was exactly.

679
00:42:16,730 --> 00:42:19,930
Speaker 3: And my mom would she sleep a lot, a lot

680
00:42:20,170 --> 00:42:22,650
Speaker 3: most of the time. She'd just sleep on the couch downstairs.

681
00:42:23,170 --> 00:42:25,170
Speaker 3: But when she was awake, she was a very good mom.

682
00:42:25,210 --> 00:42:28,290
Speaker 3: She always cooked for me and Jason, and we always

683
00:42:28,330 --> 00:42:31,050
Speaker 3: had food. She was always looking for us. We're out

684
00:42:31,130 --> 00:42:36,810
Speaker 3: too late. She didn't let nobody mess with us. My

685
00:42:36,850 --> 00:42:40,810
Speaker 3: mom was good mom. Yeah, that's what I remember.

686
00:42:50,210 --> 00:42:53,890
Speaker 1: The night his mom died, Gerald remembers hearing a thud upstairs,

687
00:42:54,210 --> 00:42:56,770
Speaker 1: but he didn't think much of it. He and Jason

688
00:42:56,850 --> 00:42:59,490
Speaker 1: were busy watching The Simpsons at the time, and not

689
00:42:59,570 --> 00:43:01,530
Speaker 1: long after that they went to bed.

690
00:43:02,130 --> 00:43:04,570
Speaker 3: So I went and crawled into bed, and Jason crawled

691
00:43:04,610 --> 00:43:06,810
Speaker 3: into his bed and he went to sleep, and I

692
00:43:06,890 --> 00:43:09,970
Speaker 3: was lying there and I'm like to see what I

693
00:43:10,010 --> 00:43:11,970
Speaker 3: can go curl up to the mom in her bed.

694
00:43:12,130 --> 00:43:14,010
Speaker 3: So I got up and I went to my mom's

695
00:43:14,090 --> 00:43:17,010
Speaker 3: room and I opened the door, and she was laying

696
00:43:17,050 --> 00:43:21,610
Speaker 3: face down on the ground, not moving. But I had

697
00:43:21,690 --> 00:43:25,370
Speaker 3: seen that before, so I didn't think a lot. I

698
00:43:25,410 --> 00:43:29,050
Speaker 3: didn't know anything was wrong. I was like seven sixth

699
00:43:29,370 --> 00:43:33,410
Speaker 3: somewhere in there. So I slowly closed the door, really

700
00:43:33,410 --> 00:43:36,010
Speaker 3: slowly because I didn't want to wake her up. And

701
00:43:36,130 --> 00:43:39,930
Speaker 3: in the morning, me and my brother got ourselves ready

702
00:43:40,010 --> 00:43:44,690
Speaker 3: for school and we walked to school. And while I

703
00:43:44,770 --> 00:43:48,890
Speaker 3: was at school, at about one o'clock in the afternoon,

704
00:43:49,530 --> 00:43:52,570
Speaker 3: some cops came to my classroom. I thought I was

705
00:43:52,610 --> 00:43:55,130
Speaker 3: in trouble because I hadn't been doing good in school.

706
00:43:56,370 --> 00:43:58,969
Speaker 3: I thought it was about my grades, actually, And then

707
00:43:58,970 --> 00:44:01,930
Speaker 3: the cops brought me back to the house. And apparently

708
00:44:02,090 --> 00:44:06,970
Speaker 3: my brother had come home from school early because he

709
00:44:07,090 --> 00:44:11,090
Speaker 3: was feeling sick, and he found my mom face down

710
00:44:11,130 --> 00:44:14,570
Speaker 3: on the ground and couldn't wake her up. So he

711
00:44:14,650 --> 00:44:18,970
Speaker 3: went to a neighbor, Lloyd and Cheryl. They lived up

712
00:44:19,010 --> 00:44:22,530
Speaker 3: the block, and Lloyd came down and checked her pulse

713
00:44:22,610 --> 00:44:31,770
Speaker 3: and looked at my brother and said she's dead, and

714
00:44:32,810 --> 00:44:35,210
Speaker 3: I didn't even realize she was dead. I didn't know

715
00:44:35,850 --> 00:44:38,010
Speaker 3: even when the cops brought me into the house and

716
00:44:38,170 --> 00:44:42,330
Speaker 3: the house was filled with cops and my grandparents are there,

717
00:44:43,650 --> 00:44:47,010
Speaker 3: nobody's told me what's happened. So I'm just looking at

718
00:44:47,050 --> 00:44:53,170
Speaker 3: everybody and I'm wondering where Mama is. And then a

719
00:44:53,210 --> 00:44:56,850
Speaker 3: cop comes up to me and says, we're going to

720
00:44:56,890 --> 00:45:00,130
Speaker 3: take you to Burger King and get you something to eat.

721
00:45:00,410 --> 00:45:03,170
Speaker 3: So a cop actually took me and my brother to

722
00:45:03,210 --> 00:45:08,330
Speaker 3: Burger King in his cop car and bought us lunch.

723
00:45:09,130 --> 00:45:11,370
Speaker 3: And I still didn't know what was going on. So

724
00:45:11,610 --> 00:45:15,210
Speaker 3: I'm just gabbing to the cop, like my very young

725
00:45:15,370 --> 00:45:19,570
Speaker 3: seven year old self, just talking, talking, talking, like nothing's wrong.

726
00:45:20,330 --> 00:45:22,970
Speaker 3: I remember asking the cop did he ever shoot anybody?

727
00:45:23,450 --> 00:45:26,450
Speaker 3: He said, yeah, she's the bad people when he has to,

728
00:45:26,650 --> 00:45:29,490
Speaker 3: and he had a shotgun that was mounted along closer

729
00:45:29,490 --> 00:45:32,250
Speaker 3: to the dash, and I thought it was so cool.

730
00:45:32,370 --> 00:45:35,690
Speaker 3: And my brother didn't say a word, and the cop

731
00:45:35,770 --> 00:45:42,330
Speaker 3: starts crying. Then he brought us back, and nobody's talking

732
00:45:42,370 --> 00:45:45,330
Speaker 3: to me at all. I'm like an insect on a

733
00:45:45,330 --> 00:45:48,969
Speaker 3: wall or a fly, like I just don't know. And

734
00:45:49,050 --> 00:45:52,410
Speaker 3: so my grandparents tell us Okay, we got to go

735
00:45:52,530 --> 00:45:55,650
Speaker 3: get inside the car. Grandpa has some things he has

736
00:45:55,730 --> 00:45:57,450
Speaker 3: to do, so we're going to take you to Aunt

737
00:45:57,490 --> 00:46:00,610
Speaker 3: Elizabeth's house for right now, for a few days. So

738
00:46:01,530 --> 00:46:04,970
Speaker 3: I got happy because I got to see my cousin Brian,

739
00:46:05,050 --> 00:46:08,810
Speaker 3: who was about my age and like I loved him.

740
00:46:09,170 --> 00:46:12,730
Speaker 3: And when I get there, my cousin Brian, he knows

741
00:46:12,770 --> 00:46:15,970
Speaker 3: what's going on, what happened, and he looks at me

742
00:46:16,050 --> 00:46:18,810
Speaker 3: and he says, Gerald, I want you to sleep in

743
00:46:18,850 --> 00:46:21,250
Speaker 3: my bed. You kick my bed, I'll sleep on the floor.

744
00:46:21,930 --> 00:46:24,330
Speaker 3: And I said you don't have to do that, and

745
00:46:24,330 --> 00:46:26,570
Speaker 3: he said, no, you can just take it, okay, And

746
00:46:26,570 --> 00:46:29,010
Speaker 3: I could see who was sad. And then I sat

747
00:46:29,050 --> 00:46:34,690
Speaker 3: down on the bed and that's when it hit me.

748
00:46:34,810 --> 00:46:42,170
Speaker 3: That's when I realized that Mom had died. And I

749
00:46:42,250 --> 00:46:47,890
Speaker 3: started crying and crying, and I cried for hours and hours,

750
00:46:49,650 --> 00:47:01,370
Speaker 3: and I cried myself to sleep. After all that, my

751
00:47:01,410 --> 00:47:04,529
Speaker 3: brother ended up becoming really quiet. He never really talked

752
00:47:04,530 --> 00:47:11,090
Speaker 3: to me very much after that. And I don't know,

753
00:47:14,290 --> 00:47:16,130
Speaker 3: it just seems like the world got a lot colder

754
00:47:16,170 --> 00:47:16,570
Speaker 3: after that.

755
00:47:23,410 --> 00:47:25,970
Speaker 1: Jason and Gerald spent the rest of their childhood with

756
00:47:26,010 --> 00:47:30,410
Speaker 1: their maternal grandparents, living in the mountains. I asked Gerald

757
00:47:30,530 --> 00:47:32,730
Speaker 1: if they ever had any contact with their dad.

758
00:47:33,490 --> 00:47:35,330
Speaker 3: No, he died before I was born.

759
00:47:35,650 --> 00:47:37,250
Speaker 1: Oh, I see, I'm sorry.

760
00:47:37,570 --> 00:47:40,130
Speaker 3: It's okay. I never knew him, so there's no effect,

761
00:47:40,170 --> 00:47:43,250
Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, but I do know a story my

762
00:47:44,410 --> 00:47:49,970
Speaker 3: dad right before he died, he asked my grandfather for

763
00:47:50,250 --> 00:47:52,650
Speaker 3: five hundred dollars because he needed to buy a car

764
00:47:53,010 --> 00:47:57,250
Speaker 3: so that he could go get this job. And my

765
00:47:57,330 --> 00:48:03,370
Speaker 3: grandfather didn't believe him, so he said no. And then

766
00:48:03,410 --> 00:48:08,250
Speaker 3: the next day, apparently a neighbor had come across my

767
00:48:09,250 --> 00:48:13,010
Speaker 3: father's hanging body from a tree and called my grandfather,

768
00:48:14,490 --> 00:48:18,810
Speaker 3: and my grandfather cut him down and looked at his

769
00:48:18,890 --> 00:48:21,970
Speaker 3: body on the ground and said, what a waste.

770
00:48:22,610 --> 00:48:25,610
Speaker 1: This is the same grandfather who about seven years later

771
00:48:25,930 --> 00:48:29,610
Speaker 1: would become Gerald's guardian. Gerald says he could be strict,

772
00:48:30,090 --> 00:48:30,490
Speaker 1: he had.

773
00:48:30,370 --> 00:48:33,170
Speaker 3: A military attitude, and he was really a gruff on

774
00:48:33,610 --> 00:48:37,730
Speaker 3: me and Jason, just you not Jason so much. Well,

775
00:48:37,810 --> 00:48:41,170
Speaker 3: Jason was more like my grandfather than I was. Jason

776
00:48:41,210 --> 00:48:43,570
Speaker 3: went into the military. He did very good. He was

777
00:48:43,610 --> 00:48:47,690
Speaker 3: in for about eight eight years and went to Iraq

778
00:48:48,090 --> 00:48:51,130
Speaker 3: twice and he did really well. Wow.

779
00:48:52,050 --> 00:48:54,850
Speaker 1: Jason now lives in Arizona, where he works in security.

780
00:48:55,410 --> 00:48:58,570
Speaker 1: Kevin's happy to hear that his life seems stable, but

781
00:48:58,650 --> 00:49:01,770
Speaker 1: Gerald and Jason's relationship never recovered from the death of

782
00:49:01,810 --> 00:49:05,610
Speaker 1: their mom. In contrast, Kevin and Tony have remained close.

783
00:49:06,330 --> 00:49:09,090
Speaker 1: That Jason and Gerald haven't is hard for Kevin to hear.

784
00:49:10,210 --> 00:49:13,250
Speaker 4: I hope that you can at least maintain a little

785
00:49:13,250 --> 00:49:15,290
Speaker 4: bit contact with Jason here and there.

786
00:49:15,890 --> 00:49:19,570
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's body, but it is. It just is what

787
00:49:19,650 --> 00:49:25,050
Speaker 3: it is. Some people. They everybody's different. We all have

788
00:49:25,130 --> 00:49:28,330
Speaker 3: our own special abilities. We all, you know, are good,

789
00:49:28,450 --> 00:49:31,610
Speaker 3: our own good things. One thing my brother isn't so

790
00:49:31,730 --> 00:49:34,570
Speaker 3: good at is dealing with the past memory of my

791
00:49:34,650 --> 00:49:38,330
Speaker 3: mom's death. He kind of locked it away, I feel.

792
00:49:41,450 --> 00:49:44,410
Speaker 3: But it's it's his memories to keep, you know. And

793
00:49:44,490 --> 00:49:46,850
Speaker 3: he doesn't want to dig him back up. And I

794
00:49:46,850 --> 00:49:47,930
Speaker 3: think that's the big thing.

795
00:49:49,250 --> 00:49:54,050
Speaker 4: If you ever see him again or communicate with him again,

796
00:49:54,690 --> 00:49:55,290
Speaker 4: I can't.

797
00:49:55,090 --> 00:50:02,450
Speaker 3: Let him know that, Yeah, I never I never never

798
00:50:02,450 --> 00:50:07,010
Speaker 3: forgot about Yeah.

799
00:50:06,330 --> 00:50:10,090
Speaker 4: He's all right, you didn't want to talk about it.

800
00:50:09,130 --> 00:50:13,570
Speaker 3: I just want to let him know that, Yeah, Tony

801
00:50:13,610 --> 00:50:13,810
Speaker 3: and I.

802
00:50:13,850 --> 00:50:18,810
Speaker 4: Were real sad and I never forgot about him.

803
00:50:19,010 --> 00:50:27,570
Speaker 3: I'll tell him. I'll tell him.

804
00:50:27,650 --> 00:50:30,290
Speaker 1: Gerald says he was just never like his brother and

805
00:50:30,330 --> 00:50:31,690
Speaker 1: grandfather me.

806
00:50:31,810 --> 00:50:34,489
Speaker 3: I was the complete opposite. I was kind of more

807
00:50:34,570 --> 00:50:38,969
Speaker 3: like the free bird, the hippie. I guess got into skateboarding.

808
00:50:39,810 --> 00:50:43,170
Speaker 3: I always wanted to start a skateboarding company and design

809
00:50:43,250 --> 00:50:46,570
Speaker 3: my own decks, do artwork through that. That's actually what

810
00:50:46,610 --> 00:50:48,930
Speaker 3: I really wanted to do in life. But I kind

811
00:50:48,930 --> 00:50:50,850
Speaker 3: of put it on a shelf just because of how

812
00:50:50,930 --> 00:50:52,890
Speaker 3: everything turned out in life.

813
00:50:53,610 --> 00:50:56,530
Speaker 1: But he says he did givet skateboards to each of

814
00:50:56,530 --> 00:50:59,370
Speaker 1: his sons, and now when his younger son goes out

815
00:50:59,410 --> 00:51:01,730
Speaker 1: to ride his bike, Gerald will use one of the

816
00:51:01,730 --> 00:51:06,050
Speaker 1: boards to skate alongside him.

817
00:51:06,090 --> 00:51:10,610
Speaker 3: Honestly, I don't know what it really is to be

818
00:51:10,690 --> 00:51:13,610
Speaker 3: a proper dad. I never had a dad. I had

819
00:51:13,610 --> 00:51:16,810
Speaker 3: a grandpa who was kind of a dad, and I

820
00:51:16,890 --> 00:51:19,730
Speaker 3: learned some from him, But to be a dad is

821
00:51:19,850 --> 00:51:24,810
Speaker 3: something I gotta learn as I go along. I guess

822
00:51:24,850 --> 00:51:27,570
Speaker 3: that's my biggest journey now. It's just to stay home,

823
00:51:27,890 --> 00:51:32,170
Speaker 3: stay in my area, and watch my kids grow. That's

824
00:51:32,210 --> 00:51:32,970
Speaker 3: what I want to do.

825
00:51:33,730 --> 00:51:35,290
Speaker 1: Did do you think you're going to stick around?

826
00:51:36,370 --> 00:51:39,130
Speaker 3: Yes? I'm done traveling now.

827
00:51:40,330 --> 00:51:43,650
Speaker 1: So it feels like it's the end. Of something or

828
00:51:43,690 --> 00:51:44,930
Speaker 1: the beginning of something new.

829
00:51:46,250 --> 00:51:50,290
Speaker 3: When one thing ins, something else begins. I'm forty one

830
00:51:50,690 --> 00:51:54,490
Speaker 3: and just means I have half my life to live. Still.

831
00:52:01,610 --> 00:52:04,770
Speaker 3: After my mom died, nobody in the family would talk

832
00:52:04,810 --> 00:52:07,730
Speaker 3: about it. It was like my old past life and

833
00:52:07,770 --> 00:52:13,530
Speaker 3: Sacramento had any raised. So having connected with Kevin is

834
00:52:13,970 --> 00:52:17,610
Speaker 3: it's like validation that I did have a life for

835
00:52:18,970 --> 00:52:21,450
Speaker 3: my mother died. Like I'm not the only one that

836
00:52:21,570 --> 00:52:24,170
Speaker 3: remembers my mom. Yeah.

837
00:52:24,570 --> 00:52:30,009
Speaker 5: Likewise, Gerald means something to me too. That I wasn't

838
00:52:30,050 --> 00:52:34,610
Speaker 5: too crazy thinking about my shild is so much like

839
00:52:34,730 --> 00:52:37,530
Speaker 5: someone else was thinking about it as well.

840
00:52:39,450 --> 00:52:47,049
Speaker 3: That actually happens. Yeah, yeah, it actually happens. It's nice

841
00:52:47,050 --> 00:52:48,170
Speaker 3: to know I'm not invisible.

842
00:52:53,970 --> 00:52:56,610
Speaker 4: I'll see you in a bit. We got to Casha.

843
00:52:57,090 --> 00:52:58,529
Speaker 4: I'll make a visit up there.

844
00:52:59,050 --> 00:53:00,450
Speaker 3: Yes, you will have to come up.

845
00:53:00,930 --> 00:53:04,450
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've never been to that area before, so that

846
00:53:05,130 --> 00:53:07,770
Speaker 4: it'll be a place. Yeah, it looks like it.

847
00:53:08,170 --> 00:53:13,170
Speaker 3: You will love it, I promised Vin. I'm sure i will. Okay,

848
00:53:13,690 --> 00:53:15,930
Speaker 3: all right, Bye bye bye, Joe.

849
00:53:23,730 --> 00:53:25,890
Speaker 1: Kevin and I stay on the line to talk about

850
00:53:25,890 --> 00:53:29,529
Speaker 1: everything Gerald shared. We harkened back to what he said

851
00:53:29,570 --> 00:53:31,970
Speaker 1: about not knowing how to be a dad, And I

852
00:53:31,970 --> 00:53:34,970
Speaker 1: asked Kevin how he learned to be a dad. A

853
00:53:35,010 --> 00:53:37,610
Speaker 1: lot of it, he says, comes from his partner, but

854
00:53:37,690 --> 00:53:40,850
Speaker 1: also he tried to define himself in opposition to his

855
00:53:40,890 --> 00:53:41,450
Speaker 1: own dad.

856
00:53:42,170 --> 00:53:46,130
Speaker 5: I didn't want to be feared. I wanted my kid

857
00:53:46,210 --> 00:53:48,690
Speaker 5: to be able to trust me. I wanted to be

858
00:53:48,850 --> 00:53:53,610
Speaker 5: warm and open to them and good time with them.

859
00:53:54,850 --> 00:53:55,090
Speaker 4: Yeah.

860
00:53:55,490 --> 00:53:58,850
Speaker 5: I guess I just wanted to do everything to opposite

861
00:53:58,970 --> 00:54:00,090
Speaker 5: what my own dad did.

862
00:54:00,850 --> 00:54:03,810
Speaker 3: And I know I didn't walk away.

863
00:54:03,890 --> 00:54:09,730
Speaker 4: I'm scathed, both me and my bro probably with my

864
00:54:09,890 --> 00:54:15,530
Speaker 4: entire family. I feel like sometimes I sort of like

865
00:54:15,610 --> 00:54:17,330
Speaker 4: PTSD almost.

866
00:54:18,210 --> 00:54:20,850
Speaker 1: Kevin tells me how when his kids joined Cub Scouts,

867
00:54:20,930 --> 00:54:24,450
Speaker 1: he volunteered to be an assistant scout master. He had

868
00:54:24,450 --> 00:54:27,170
Speaker 1: to go away on this weekend camping trip to be trained.

869
00:54:27,690 --> 00:54:30,250
Speaker 1: When he got back home, he pulled into the garage.

870
00:54:30,890 --> 00:54:32,850
Speaker 1: Everything in the house was quiet.

871
00:54:33,130 --> 00:54:36,770
Speaker 4: I remember unloading the car and calling for my kids

872
00:54:36,770 --> 00:54:41,130
Speaker 4: because I thought that it could help me set up

873
00:54:41,130 --> 00:54:43,610
Speaker 4: the tent in the backyard to let the tet properly

874
00:54:43,770 --> 00:54:44,650
Speaker 4: dry and all that.

875
00:54:44,810 --> 00:54:47,290
Speaker 3: But there were no response.

876
00:54:48,890 --> 00:54:51,770
Speaker 4: Noticed that they were like in the living room or

877
00:54:51,810 --> 00:54:57,130
Speaker 4: something like that, playing board games. It kind of nodded

878
00:54:57,170 --> 00:55:03,450
Speaker 4: at me like, oh, that us home, and I just

879
00:55:03,610 --> 00:55:16,370
Speaker 4: remember feeling like like immense we overwhelmed with sadness. I

880
00:55:16,530 --> 00:55:21,650
Speaker 4: just remember sitting down in another room on the couch,

881
00:55:23,370 --> 00:55:28,290
Speaker 4: just being super removed and even wondering about why I

882
00:55:28,410 --> 00:55:35,370
Speaker 4: was feeling that emotion, and it took me a It

883
00:55:35,410 --> 00:55:36,650
Speaker 4: took me a little wild.

884
00:55:36,730 --> 00:55:39,730
Speaker 3: It processed like why this black cloud was.

885
00:55:39,770 --> 00:55:49,690
Speaker 4: Just just hanging around me? And I guess ultimately what's

886
00:55:49,730 --> 00:55:55,490
Speaker 4: going through my mind was I felt like like my

887
00:55:55,610 --> 00:56:02,610
Speaker 4: family didn't really want me, and maybe I was envisioning

888
00:56:02,690 --> 00:56:06,690
Speaker 4: that that it would miss me and it would greet me,

889
00:56:06,850 --> 00:56:14,530
Speaker 4: and but because they didn't, I got that sensation dad,

890
00:56:15,050 --> 00:56:21,770
Speaker 4: like I wasn't wanted. And I didn't even know how

891
00:56:21,810 --> 00:56:26,450
Speaker 4: I was processing it, but it reminded me of that

892
00:56:26,610 --> 00:56:32,890
Speaker 4: time where like how my mom would draw my name

893
00:56:33,530 --> 00:56:39,250
Speaker 4: bring a paper bag. She chose me as the first

894
00:56:39,330 --> 00:56:46,850
Speaker 4: kid that she didn't want, and.

895
00:56:49,050 --> 00:57:02,010
Speaker 3: I didn't to go yeah yeah, and I thought about

896
00:57:04,170 --> 00:57:12,770
Speaker 3: how but coming home to my dad and looking at

897
00:57:12,810 --> 00:57:13,290
Speaker 3: me like.

898
00:57:16,250 --> 00:57:19,490
Speaker 4: Like he wished he had my older brother come home

899
00:57:19,530 --> 00:57:24,130
Speaker 4: instead of me, And that was a feeling I got

900
00:57:24,330 --> 00:57:32,090
Speaker 4: when I just got home from that camping trip, like

901
00:57:32,210 --> 00:57:40,250
Speaker 4: nobody wanted me. Yeah, yeah, it was this a terrible feeling.

902
00:57:44,530 --> 00:57:48,490
Speaker 4: I remember my uh my partner. She came back out

903
00:57:48,530 --> 00:57:52,210
Speaker 4: and she saw me, and I didn't know how to

904
00:57:52,290 --> 00:57:59,010
Speaker 4: explain it to her, but the guy just told her

905
00:57:59,050 --> 00:58:00,210
Speaker 4: I wasn't feeling well.

906
00:58:01,290 --> 00:58:02,770
Speaker 3: And then.

907
00:58:04,290 --> 00:58:09,090
Speaker 4: Be my family in the herd room and be normal

908
00:58:09,130 --> 00:58:11,970
Speaker 4: well again and say hey, what's everyone doing the game

909
00:58:12,010 --> 00:58:12,930
Speaker 4: when you guys playing?

910
00:58:17,530 --> 00:58:18,770
Speaker 3: And life was just carry on.

911
00:58:29,370 --> 00:58:32,130
Speaker 1: This weekend, Kevin is planning on driving out to the

912
00:58:32,130 --> 00:58:36,890
Speaker 1: mountains to see Gerald to go camping and fishing. Gerald says,

913
00:58:36,930 --> 00:58:41,490
Speaker 1: the fish are jumping. It's the beginning of something new.

914
00:58:42,650 --> 00:58:43,530
Speaker 1: Life carries on.

915
00:58:46,010 --> 00:59:33,250
Speaker 7: H now that the Fernitures returning to its goodwill home,

916
00:59:36,730 --> 00:59:41,130
Speaker 7: now that the last month's rent is scheming with the

917
00:59:41,330 --> 00:59:45,610
Speaker 7: damage to possit, take this moment to deserve.

918
00:59:47,650 --> 00:59:49,730
Speaker 1: If we meant it, if we talked.

919
00:59:51,410 --> 00:59:53,930
Speaker 7: We were felt around for five to.

920
00:59:56,530 --> 00:59:59,170
Speaker 3: From things that accidentally talk.

921
01:00:03,250 --> 01:00:06,090
Speaker 1: This episode of Heavyweight was produced by Khalila Holt and

922
01:00:06,130 --> 01:00:10,690
Speaker 1: me Jonathan Goldstein, along with Phoebe Flanagain. Our supervising producer

923
01:00:10,730 --> 01:00:14,650
Speaker 1: is Stevie Lane. Editorial guidance from Emily Condon. Special thanks

924
01:00:14,650 --> 01:00:18,290
Speaker 1: to Chris Neary Gretacone, Jake Harper, Lydia, Jane Kott, and

925
01:00:18,410 --> 01:00:22,090
Speaker 1: Kevin's brother Tony Emmamonger mixed the episode with original music

926
01:00:22,130 --> 01:00:25,890
Speaker 1: by Christine Fellows, John K. Sampson, and Bobby Lord. Additional

927
01:00:25,930 --> 01:00:29,050
Speaker 1: scoring by Blue Dot Sessions and Poddington Bear. Our theme

928
01:00:29,090 --> 01:00:32,010
Speaker 1: song is by The Weaker Thands, courtesy of Epitaph Records.

929
01:00:32,450 --> 01:00:35,850
Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram at Heavyweight Podcast, or email us

930
01:00:35,890 --> 01:00:39,050
Speaker 1: at Heavyweight at Pushkin dot Fm. We're taking a break

931
01:00:39,090 --> 01:00:42,450
Speaker 1: for American Thanksgiving, but we'll be back in December with

932
01:00:42,570 --> 01:00:47,170
Speaker 1: two more episodes of Heavyweight. Until that time, Happy American

933
01:00:47,210 --> 01:00:52,050
Speaker 1: toy Kie Day, Gobble gobbled to you, and yours a

934
01:00:52,210 --> 01:00:53,970
Speaker 1: wazer we repainted