1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Business of Sports. 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 3: Business of Sports can be intimidating. 4 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 4: For hard for a start to break into. 5 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 3: We really appreciate when our owners are actually there, you know, 6 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 3: with us through the journey. 7 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: Teams ours especially then very intentional to diversify at all 8 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: levels of the company. 9 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 5: Maybe we're in the golden years for the NFL and 10 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 5: college football. 11 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 3: Our demographic reach has continued to explode. 12 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 6: This is going to be really unlocking the streaming platform 13 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:34,160 Speaker 6: for sports fans. 14 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 2: Sports evaluations are rising. 15 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 5: We'll see when they peak. 16 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 3: You don't have to be the best in your sports 17 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 3: and make a whole ton of money. 18 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. 19 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 4: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports show. But we 20 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 4: explored the big money issues in the world of sports. 21 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 5: Michael Varn and I'm Damien Sas Hour. 22 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 4: Scarlett Foo would join us later in the show. Coming 23 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 4: up on the show, we start to look ahead to 24 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 4: the NFL regular season kicking off. We'll talk with Gil Moran. 25 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,119 Speaker 4: He is the vice president and head a business strategy 26 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 4: and Operations for the National Football League. 27 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 5: Yep, yeah, yeah, that is right. Michael Barr. We will 28 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 5: find out more about the league's new NFL Pro service 29 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 5: and talk about some of its digital plans going forward. 30 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 7: We clearly have the ability to track a lot of 31 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 7: data and provide a lot of insights of that nature, 32 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 7: and we simply hadn't found a way to productize that engine. 33 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 7: So over the course of the last couple of years, 34 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 7: what we wanted to do was find the recipe that 35 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 7: allows us to a utilize our data in a way 36 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 7: that is more digestible for fans and still ensure that 37 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 7: we are protecting the integrity the game. The integrity of 38 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:47,559 Speaker 7: the data. 39 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 4: Will also die further into sports betting and how it's 40 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 4: affecting players. All that and more straight ahead on the 41 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 4: Bloomberg Business of Sports. But first we talked the beautiful 42 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 4: game and how us and might be cooling a bit 43 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 4: on UK football clubs. Bloomberg UK Business reporter David Hellier 44 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 4: and Bloomberg Original Sports correspondent Vanessa Brodomo did some reporting 45 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 4: on this and Vanessa is here now to talk it through. Vanessa, 46 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 4: Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. 47 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:19,679 Speaker 6: Hey Michael, how's it going? 48 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 4: Yay, Team Yay, And we talk about the beautiful game. Hmm. 49 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 4: I wonder if you know anything about soccer hmm, A 50 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 4: little bit, Yeah, just the tad, you know, I just wonder, 51 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 4: you know, why is it having major problems especially in 52 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 4: the UK now. 53 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 6: Yeah, you know with the UK landscape, we're seeing is 54 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 6: the American investors that basically started taking over the Premier 55 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 6: League in the last few years really start cooling on 56 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 6: their investments because the European the English Premier League specifically 57 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 6: is not as lucrative as you would think it would be, 58 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 6: especially being so popular, the return on investment isn't as 59 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 6: quick and a lot of the markets just really toxic 60 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 6: in a way where you know, we have people at 61 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 6: the top spending a ton of money, which we see 62 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 6: in a lot of sports, but in England and the 63 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 6: English Premier League specifically, there's not a lot of regulation 64 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 6: on how much teams can spend. You have Chelsea just 65 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 6: throwing out enormous amounts of money, the top spending all 66 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 6: this money, whereas the middle of the table even has 67 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 6: basically half the payroll that these these other teams have. 68 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 6: And then obviously towards the end it's it's completely different 69 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 6: some what we kind of see in like Major League baseball, 70 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 6: where there's no salary caps specifically, and you'll have the 71 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 6: Yankees go over that just because go over the tax 72 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 6: threshold just because they can, and then other teams really 73 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 6: stick to a smaller payroll. But in baseball doesn't seem 74 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 6: to matter as much as it does in the English. 75 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 6: Primarily the top four to five teams usually will keep 76 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 6: that same rank like almost every single year. 77 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 4: And by the way, in case people aren't knowing in 78 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 4: the audience, Vanessa is super duper soccer because she is 79 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 4: a former D one soccer player at Ryder you and 80 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 4: also Damien at Ducane. 81 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 5: That's right, Well, Vanessa, you know I need to ask 82 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 5: you this. You know we are we are NFL fans 83 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 5: here in New York, and you know the NFL just 84 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 5: voted thirty one to one to allow private equity firms 85 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 5: to invest in individual franchises up to ten percent. And 86 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 5: while I know, you know, the Premier League in the 87 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 5: UK is quite different and they've been down this path 88 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 5: well before the US, you know, is that really the 89 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 5: primary driver as to why these Premier League clubs are 90 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 5: you know, running at a loss in the latest fiscal 91 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 5: year or is there something else there? I mean, let's 92 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 5: think about the concept of relegation, right, I mean, NFL 93 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 5: teams don't get relegated if they underperf awhareas in EPL 94 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 5: they do. So I'm just curious. Is this entirely due 95 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 5: to the fact that maybe private equity or other investors, 96 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 5: you know, big Middle Eastern money have come in and 97 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 5: they've driven up the valuation so much that these these 98 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 5: franchises can't be profitable or is there something else going 99 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 5: on here? 100 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 6: Yeah, I think, you know, it's a really good point 101 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 6: to when you speak about regulation. I think when speaking 102 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 6: about regulation, is exactly the reason that American investors are 103 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 6: cooling on the EPL as, you know, as a property 104 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 6: that they want to keep diving into because of that 105 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 6: fear of regulation. You know, you have to operate the 106 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 6: same payroll with half the budget that you can and 107 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 6: obviously that's just not something we have in the US, 108 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 6: and people in the UK don't understand why we don't 109 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 6: have it. You know. It obviously makes things very very 110 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 6: interesting and very competitive for fans and it's really amazing, 111 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 6: but for owners it's less than ideal and it's not 112 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 6: some a risk that they really want to take. But again, 113 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 6: at the top. You wouldn't see those people like a 114 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 6: Chelsea or a man City even really having to worry 115 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 6: about that. So it's not necessarily the reason that some 116 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 6: of those teams are operating at a loss. It's just 117 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 6: the fact that they they're out here spending all of 118 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 6: this money without really having a way to capitalize on 119 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:21,239 Speaker 6: it beyond what they have right now. But regulation is 120 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 6: the biggest thing for Americans that we don't really understand 121 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 6: and that we just really don't have here. And that's 122 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 6: one of the reasons why you'll see investors, and especially 123 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 6: with that private equity now being in the NFL, you'll 124 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,239 Speaker 6: see most of that money being put into the NFL 125 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 6: like it already has. And I can't even imagine how 126 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 6: that's going to drive up NFL valuation. 127 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 5: Well that takes me to my next point, right, I mean, 128 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 5: you know the NFL. I mean I'm looking at no 129 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 5: fewer than ten teams here from the Philadelphia Eagles Jeff 130 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 5: Lorie exploring the sale of a minority steak the Miami Dolphins. 131 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 5: I believe you know, billionaire hedphone manager Ken Griffin, who 132 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 5: was entering into talks with Stephen Ross to buy a 133 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 5: minority stake and the Dolphins, I mean, the Bills, the Chargers, 134 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 5: I mean, Vanessa, I'm just I'm a little concerned about 135 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 5: the NFL here. You know, do they know what they're 136 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 5: getting themselves into? If valuation starts to skyrocket and you know, 137 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 5: for whatever reason, you know, you know, they just they 138 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 5: you know, they just can't they just can't support the overhead, right, 139 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 5: The franchises themselves just aren't generating the revenue to justify 140 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 5: the valuation. I mean, what do you what environment like, 141 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 5: what do you think that does to the league, to 142 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 5: its integrity, to the NFL front office? I mean, what 143 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 5: do you think the impact of that might be? 144 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 6: Well, the reality is that these valuations have already been 145 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 6: skyrocketing before, you know, they allowed this private equity to 146 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 6: come in. And the reason that they've really allowed this 147 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 6: to happen is one because people were clamoring for it. Obviously, 148 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 6: private equity wants to get involved in the NFL, but 149 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 6: also because not one person can really own a team anymore. 150 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 6: No one's really going to be able to buy that 151 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 6: eight billion dollar valuation that we're going to see you 152 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 6: one day, that ten billion dollar valuation that we're going 153 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 6: to see one day, Because it will happen, you know, 154 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 6: sooner than later that we're going to see that ten 155 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 6: billion dollar evaluation. So no one's really going to be 156 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 6: able to do that. So these owners being able to 157 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 6: explore that minority private equity investment, it is something that 158 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 6: I think is almost a necessity at this point. I 159 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 6: do think it might drive up evaluations a little bit more, 160 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 6: but not into the way that they already have been. 161 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 6: And the reality is, you know, when I was speaking 162 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 6: with Michelle Kang, who is an owner of women's teams, 163 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 6: and you know, one of the other sources we had 164 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 6: for this story, a different part of it, you know, 165 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 6: the women's side of all of this, she was basically, 166 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 6: you know, telling me that a lot of these teams, 167 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 6: specifically any sport really doesn't operate you know, without a 168 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 6: loss without media rights. You know. So the NFL. NFL 169 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 6: teams obviously have really big stadiums, so they're a game 170 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 6: to day game operations are more than maybe an NBA 171 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 6: or a soccer stadium. But at the same time, they 172 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 6: have this enormous media rights deal that they can all 173 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 6: profit off of, and I think that's one of the 174 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 6: reasons why their valuations will keep skyrocking because their media 175 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 6: rights will keep going up. And you know, one of 176 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 6: the things she told me about women's soccer in particular 177 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 6: was she gets a lot of questions about when will 178 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 6: women's sports and women's soccer be profitable, And she told me, 179 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 6: she said, you know, no teams would really be profitable 180 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 6: without media rights. And that's one of the problems that 181 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 6: obviously women's sports are having their evaluations. For me, your 182 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 6: rights are going higher, but it's not at the point 183 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 6: yet where it's going to help each specific club operate 184 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 6: with that loss. 185 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 4: Here's the logical part that I have a problem with, 186 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,719 Speaker 4: and I'm going by the chart here that we have 187 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 4: on Bloomberg in your article. I'll give you an example. 188 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 4: There are thirty two teams in the National Football League. 189 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 4: There are only so many to go out there. That's 190 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 4: why it is so dull, gone high and hard to 191 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 4: get one of these teams. And it has taken a 192 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 4: lot of money. According to the chart, there are only 193 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 4: twenty teams in the Premier League clubs and still they're 194 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 4: struggling to have a problem of making money. On a 195 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 4: logical sense, it can you explain it to me? 196 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 6: You know, I think that with when you're looking at 197 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 6: how many teams are in the English Premier League, I 198 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 6: think you have to look at the multitudes of levels 199 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:23,719 Speaker 6: that there is in the English football, which is you know, 200 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 6: there's four levels of professionals professionals football in England, and 201 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 6: each of those teams is part of that you know, 202 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 6: tier specific pyramid or whatever you want to call it, 203 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 6: that you know, they can be promoted, regulated and all 204 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 6: these things. So twenty teams is only a snapshot. It's 205 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 6: obviously the biggest, the top tier, and the one that 206 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 6: makes all of the money. But that's where that regulation 207 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 6: really comes volatile. And you know, these teams that are 208 00:10:54,920 --> 00:11:00,079 Speaker 6: operating at a two or three million dollars you know 209 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 6: a week or so payroll, if they go down one, 210 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 6: if they go up one, it's really a problem. 211 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 4: The exposure that the game gets, I mean obviously overseas, 212 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, it's it's off the dog gone chart. Yes, 213 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 4: we're trying to get the exposure more of it here 214 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 4: in the United States, and more people are catching on 215 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 4: to soccer here, but I just wonder, you know, how 216 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 4: long will it be before we get soccer to be 217 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 4: the equivalent of one of the four food groups in 218 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 4: sports baseball, football, basketball, hockey, and then we're going to 219 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 4: have a fifth one day, soccer. 220 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 6: I think what's interesting about that is that the NHL 221 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,559 Speaker 6: is basically right there along with soccer. You know, they 222 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 6: haven't expanded, they haven't expanded as much as you know, 223 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 6: the popularity of soccer has in the last couple of years. 224 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 6: So in my opinion, the NHL and soccer maybe EPL, 225 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 6: but soccer as a whole EPL, MLS combined attention is 226 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 6: right there, but it is going to take some time, 227 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 6: and I think that the problem with it is that 228 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 6: we are seeing these huge gaps and numbers in just 229 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 6: in general football being the top top tier and a 230 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 6: huge gap for the next viewership, attendance, money, everything in between, 231 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 6: even that basketball and baseball. So I think the problem 232 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 6: with the US right now is are so overly focused 233 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 6: on football that it's almost hard for another sport to 234 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 6: really break into that tier. 235 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 4: Our thanks to Bloomberg original sports correspondent Vanessa Perdomo for 236 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 4: joining us. Coming up, we talked sports gambling and a 237 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 4: company looking the root out bets that raise red flags. 238 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 4: That is straight ahead on the Bloomberg Business of Sports 239 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 4: from Bloomberg Radio Around the world. 240 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 2: You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. 241 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 4: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports show, where we 242 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 4: explore the big money issues the world of sports. I'm 243 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 4: Michael Barr from a colleagues Scarlett fou and Damien Sassoer. 244 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 4: As sports gambling rises, so do the risks. Bloomberg BusinessWeek 245 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 4: contributor and author Devin Gordon as a new piece out 246 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 4: about a monitoring company that's on the lookout for wagers 247 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 4: that raise red flags. It's called US Integrity catch pro 248 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 4: athletes involved in betting schemes, and he is here now 249 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 4: to discuss it. US Integrity catches pro athletes involved in 250 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 4: betting schemes, and don't me just cut to the chase. 251 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 4: That means there are worries about athletes possibly throwing games, 252 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 4: and it's been a problem devon since the time of 253 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 4: the Chicago Black Sox scandal. 254 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true, and I should clarify throwing games is hard. 255 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 3: It's it's it's it usually takes more than one person, 256 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 3: takes a whole ring of people. It's difficult to cover up. 257 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 3: So you know, there's not too much of that, But 258 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 3: there's so much gambling out there now, so many prop 259 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 3: bets where which is a way of betting on a 260 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 3: single isolated outcome within a game, that even a marginal 261 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 3: player can get up to something no good throw throw gamblers, 262 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 3: throw sportsbooks off, and cheat basically even somebody who barely plays. 263 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 3: And that's the real issue. Those are the harder things 264 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 3: to catch because some of those prop situations are so 265 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 3: small that it doesn't necessarily, you know, catch the naked on. 266 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 5: So here's what I have to ask you. Who is 267 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 5: you as integrity. I've been doing this a long time, 268 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 5: as you know, and I do not. I've never heard 269 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 5: of them before. And I've been reading about about Jason 270 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 5: vans Hoff, who is formerly with the US Defense Intelligence Agent. 271 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 5: See he's the head of investigations. I mean, tell us 272 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 5: a little bit about the company, about his role within 273 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 5: the company. Who are they? 274 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 3: Well, that's how I got interested too. I had never 275 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 3: heard of them, and then I heard their name come 276 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 3: up in the coverage of this recent story about an 277 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 3: NBA player named Johntay Porter, a bench player kind of 278 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 3: like I described, who got banned for life from the 279 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 3: NBA for fixing his performance in games. He was working 280 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 3: with a ring of the fairies, gamblers, cheaters basically, and 281 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 3: he basically told them, bet the under on all my points, rebounds, assists, 282 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 3: three pointers, all my individual statistics. Bet the under because 283 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 3: I'm gonna basically pull myself out of the game with 284 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 3: an injury after three minutes, and if you bet the unders, you're. 285 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 6: Going to hit all of them. Well. 286 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 3: A company like US Integrity is basically a third party 287 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 3: integrity monitor for the entire sports gambling industry, and what 288 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 3: they do is they gather betting information from all the 289 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 3: sports books, all the odds makers, and they monitor it 290 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 3: for irregularities. It's mostly algorithmic work. It's mostly monitoring numbers 291 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 3: and seeing if there's any unusual moves in betting lines 292 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 3: or strange wagers that don't really make sense. And if 293 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 3: they see something, they say something, they announce it to 294 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 3: the entire industry. They send out warnings letting everyone know 295 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 3: that there's something going on. They think there might be 296 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 3: something going on, and if a odds maker sees something 297 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 3: that they think is going wrong, or if a sports 298 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 3: league like the NFL or Major League Baseball, or a 299 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 3: college league like the ACC sees something on their end, 300 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 3: that they think is going wrong. They'll alert these integrity 301 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 3: monitors like US Integrity, and they'll investigate see if something 302 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 3: really is going on. If they find something that they're 303 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 3: convinced is bad, they'll refer to authorities. 304 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 5: So I mean, Devin, I mean, we know the story 305 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 5: of John tay Porter, how he tried to control his 306 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 5: own box score, right, you know, and you had mentioned, 307 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 5: you know, mentioned prop bets, and you know from the 308 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 5: perspective you know of you know, leagues and TV networks 309 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 5: that are desperately trying to hang on the viewers. I 310 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 5: think you managed to mention it's like super glue, right, 311 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 5: I mean, like they need these prop bets, you know, 312 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 5: and they'll make a market in pretty much anything. It seems. 313 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,479 Speaker 5: These I'm talking about you know, draft Kings and Fandel 314 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 5: and the like, and the odds makers. But you know, 315 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 5: how can you monitor all those different bets, all those 316 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 5: different odds books, you know? I mean I think there's 317 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 5: over one hundred of them now, and you know, because 318 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 5: because think about it, these bets are probably spread over 319 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 5: multiple different you know, sports books, They're spread over you know, 320 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 5: in different increments. You know. I mean, how do you 321 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 5: I mean, is it an algorithm. I mean, how does 322 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 5: US integrity work? How are they how are they tracking? 323 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 5: How are they monitoring all this? 324 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 3: Well, the short answers, you can't monitor everything, right, and 325 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 3: and the more off the field oriented some of these 326 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 3: prop bets get. Like, for instance, you know the color 327 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 3: of the gatorade that gets dumped on the coaches set 328 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 3: at the exact Super Bowl, or you know how long 329 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 3: it takes to sing the national anthem. Those things are 330 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 3: really hard to track. Those things are really hard to 331 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 3: monitor because tons of people can know that information, and 332 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 3: it's hard to spot when somebody is just placing a 333 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 3: big bet because they're guessing, or they're placing a big 334 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 3: bet because they know something in game stuff is a 335 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 3: little bit easier. They're basically they're using a lot of 336 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 3: algorithms map that I don't understand. But as much as anything, 337 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 3: what's really coming up is the bets themselves. You know, 338 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 3: one of the reasons why Johntay Porter was able to 339 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 3: be caught is because here you had large amounts of 340 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 3: money being wagered on a player that most people, even 341 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 3: most NBA fans, had never heard of, so already there 342 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 3: was something strange going on. Most prop bets in NBA 343 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 3: games of any size or wagered on stars like look 344 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 3: at doncitz or Jana Santa de Compo or Lebron James. 345 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 3: Nobody's betting on Johntay Porter. In fact, Johntay Porter on 346 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 3: the first night that he was caught cheating, he was 347 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 3: the largest winnings of the entire night across DraftKings was 348 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 3: on John Tay Porter. That's strange. That shouldn't happen. That's 349 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 3: the first sign that something is wrong. So a lot 350 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 3: of times it's the bets themselves, the amount of money 351 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 3: and who it's being wagered on and why and when 352 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 3: it's being wagered that tends to send up a red flag. 353 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 3: But beyond that, it's very analytically oriented. Sometimes if a 354 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 3: line moves very suddenly because a lot of money comes 355 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 3: in on one side, you know, sometimes that's because an 356 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 3: injury just got announced or the playing conditions are going 357 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 3: to change. But sometimes it's because somebody on the inside 358 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 3: knows something and they're sharing it with people. 359 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 5: Well, you know, here's an interesting one, right because you 360 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 5: know there was a story, I mean, David, it was 361 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,199 Speaker 5: in your article where you're talking about a recent hire 362 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 5: at US indegrity, a volleyball player from Gazagi University, and 363 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 5: she was DMed. For those who don't know, a direct 364 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,479 Speaker 5: message is a way of communicating on social media, by 365 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 5: the way, And she was DMed by someone she didn't 366 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,239 Speaker 5: know on her network who said, hey, you know, one 367 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 5: of your teammates, you know, how's your knee feeling? I 368 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 5: heard she's not feeling and you know, you know, I 369 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 5: guess the player in question she was like, oh no, yeah, 370 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 5: she's she's feeling better or she feel But after she 371 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 5: sent it, she all of a sudden realized, Wow, that's 372 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 5: almost like material insider information, right, I mean she's talking 373 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 5: to someone outside the team, outside the network who may 374 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 5: be able to place a wager on that. And you know, 375 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 5: I guess this takes me to like the next generation 376 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 5: of fishing, right, I mean phishing, Yeah, is something we 377 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 5: deal with here at Bloomberg, as you well know, right, 378 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 5: and we're trained to deal with that. But and certainly 379 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 5: in financial markets, you know, you know, if you're an 380 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 5: investment banker, you know material insider information. You know you're 381 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 5: you're trained on that. But you know, these are students, 382 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 5: you know, these are student athletes, you know how how 383 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 5: do you make them aware, how do you train them 384 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 5: to identify and protect against this? Because eventually, wouldn't you 385 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 5: agree that athlete who released that insider information is sort 386 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 5: of an accessory, you know, if something we're nefarious were 387 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 5: going on. 388 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 3: No. Absolutely, And it's really scary for a lot of 389 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 3: college athletes, right because how do you prove that you 390 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 3: did it accidentally? 391 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 5: Exactly right? 392 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's you know, this is something that 393 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 3: can jeopardize your playing career, can get you suspended because 394 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 3: you you shared something you weren't even intending to be 395 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 3: used by gamblers. And to answer your question, education is 396 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 3: really the only way to do it. One of us 397 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 3: Integrity's biggest uh, you know, businesses, one of the biggest 398 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 3: products that they offer is education about gambling rules and 399 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 3: and people who might be trying to prey upon them. 400 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 3: And in fact, that's what that young woman who I 401 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 3: was speaking to does for a living. She's going to 402 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 3: be you know, she goes to college campuses all over 403 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 3: the country, talks to student athletes and tells them what 404 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 3: they should be aware of. The issue is that, you know, 405 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 3: smaller conferences, smaller schools can't necessarily afford this kind of education. 406 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 3: It costs money, and so you have bigger conferences that 407 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 3: are able to bring in people like US Integrity. But 408 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 3: it's people at the margins in smaller sports that do 409 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 3: have betting and gambling available on their on their games 410 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 3: that are the most vulnerable in some ways, and they're 411 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 3: also the hardest to protect and they're the hardest educate. 412 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 5: I'm just thinking about, you know, for those out there 413 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 5: who are interested in this as a space, who you know, 414 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 5: I mean, what's the skill set? 415 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 4: You know? 416 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 5: I mean, are you really like almost like a d 417 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 5: agent trying to crack down on you know? You know, 418 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 5: do you understand what I'm saying? Like, what's the skill 419 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 5: set you need in order to be in that space? 420 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 5: What did you come across there, Devin? 421 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 3: A lot of data analysis, a lot of you know, 422 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 3: a lot of mathematics and statistical expertise, quantitative expertise, but 423 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 3: also a deep interest in sports and understanding how the 424 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 3: business of sports gambling works. 425 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:37,959 Speaker 5: I have to say, you have to read this article. 426 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 5: I mean, it's unincredible. Devin Gordon Us Integrity catches pro 427 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 5: athletes involved in betting schemes. It's a must read. But 428 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 5: there was one other interesting point you made as you 429 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 5: were going through the different examples, and it was, you know, 430 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 5: I think it was a boxing promoter or a trainer 431 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 5: or you know who basically walks in to a Vegas 432 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 5: casino wearing the T shirt of his boxer and tried 433 00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 5: to bet like a lot of money against them. Right, 434 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 5: So I mean maybe you think if you think of 435 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 5: if you think about this though, Michael Barim, this is 436 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 5: really funny because you know he's not you know, that's 437 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 5: almost you have to be there and you almost have 438 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 5: to be a police officer and physically on site to 439 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 5: pick up on the tells, right, I mean, but then again, 440 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,239 Speaker 5: what what what you wrote about which was interesting is 441 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 5: there's there's a list of insiders, right, Like, so this 442 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 5: this promoter's name showed up on a list of insiders 443 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 5: where if we get a bet from him, it's going 444 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,719 Speaker 5: to raise a red flag. And it causes me to question, like, 445 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 5: who's keeping track of my name? You know, like I mean, 446 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 5: who's keeping track of all of that information? I mean 447 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 5: you're all of a sudden, Uh, you have a nephew 448 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 5: who's a baseball player. He gets you know, bumped up 449 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 5: to triple or whatever. You see what I'm saying, like, 450 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 5: how do they know who I am? You know, it's 451 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 5: it's amazing. So I get your point about the data 452 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 5: mining aspect of this job, but wow, I mean, I mean, 453 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 5: where does where does the rabbit hole end? 454 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 3: It really doesn't. And you know, you know, you bring 455 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,479 Speaker 3: up the example of a of a nephew or something 456 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 3: like that. Look, there's there's there's something called a prohibited 457 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 3: betters list for every sporting event that is gambled upon. 458 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 3: Right the league's, the boxing commissions, the conferences all submit 459 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 3: to the odds makers and to US Integrity encrypted lists 460 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 3: of people who are not allowed to bet on a 461 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 3: sporting event because they're either an athlete, they're a coach, 462 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 3: they're family member ployed by the team, they're the family 463 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 3: members something. But those lists only go so far, right, 464 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 3: you know, they don't go down to the you know, 465 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 3: the second cousin or something like that. They don't necessarily 466 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 3: include your best friend from home or things like that. 467 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 3: If one of those people on the prohibited better list, 468 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 3: like that boxing trainer, for example, who is trying to 469 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 3: make a very large wager on his own fighter, tries 470 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 3: to do it, they'll get blocked. If they try to 471 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 3: do it because they're on a prohibited better list. But 472 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 3: if you know somebody who's adjacent to someone on that 473 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 3: list tries to do it, then it's then it's very, 474 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 3: very difficult. One of the reasons why this guy and 475 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 3: this guy got caught for a lot of reasons, chiefly 476 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 3: because he's dumb, and a lot of the people who 477 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 3: do this stuff do not realize how easy it is 478 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 3: to get caught. But if you know anything about it, 479 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 3: if you know how the system works, it's there are 480 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 3: holes in the net. Let's put it that way. 481 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 4: Our thanks to Bloomberg Business Week contributor and author Devin 482 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 4: Gordon for joining us. Coming up, we turned to new 483 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 4: tech in the NFL and the league's new streaming platform, 484 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 4: NFL Plus. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports 485 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 4: from Bloomberg Radio. 486 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 2: Around the world, you're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports 487 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 2: from Bloomberg Radio. 488 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 4: Thanks for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports Show, 489 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 4: where we explore the big money issues in the world 490 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 4: of sports. Michael Barr from my colleagues Scarlett fu and 491 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 4: Damian Sasaur. The NFL is launching NFL Pro, a tool 492 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 4: that lets fans dive into advanced stats, data and metrics, 493 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 4: part of a bigger push into digital for the league. 494 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 4: Here to talk to us about the news service and 495 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 4: how the league is seeing opportunities with its data in 496 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 4: the digital space. We welcome Gil Moran. He is the 497 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 4: vice president and the head of Business Strategy and Operations 498 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 4: for the NFL. Gil, welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. 499 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 7: Thank you for having me. 500 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 4: Can you tell us more about that? Tell us about 501 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 4: the streaming service. 502 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 7: As you mentioned, we are in our third year. The 503 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 7: product that we have is intended to be a service 504 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 7: that fans can oft and choose what they look for. 505 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 7: We have a few different varieties in the product. We 506 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 7: have the live games available on mobile mobile devices, the 507 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 7: local and national games have all the game replays. I 508 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 7: think this is probably one of the most understated features 509 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 7: in the product, where you are able to watch full 510 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 7: game replays and condensed game replays shortly after the game ends, 511 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 7: and I think for someone like me who's a father 512 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 7: of three, that is one of the most valuable features 513 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 7: I use because, as you know, Sundays are not my 514 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 7: own with little kids. There is red Zone obviously available 515 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 7: in the Premium tier. There is live game audio for 516 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 7: every single game available, there's a flavor for everyone. So 517 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 7: we're very We're very happy with the product, very excited 518 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 7: about it going to its third year, and then constantly 519 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 7: looking for ways to innovate on what we have. And 520 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 7: I think in part that is why we launched NFL 521 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 7: Pro within Premium and I'm sure we'll get to discuss 522 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 7: that a little bit. 523 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: Well, that's where I want to go, and I'm glad 524 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: you mentioned the Premium tier, which is more expensive. It's 525 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: a fourteen ninety nine a month or just under one 526 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: hundred dollars a year, compared with six ninety nine a 527 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: month or just under fifty dollars a year for a 528 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: regular NFL Plus. Can you tell us a little bit 529 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: about NFL Pro and why the NFL is now opening 530 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: up its advanced data to viewers. 531 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 7: Absolutely, I think when you know, we started this journey 532 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 7: about four years ago, right and when we looked under 533 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 7: the hood. When I looked under the hood of what 534 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 7: NGS offers, I was like, this is one of the 535 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 7: most interesting engines I've ever seen. We clearly have the 536 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 7: ability to track a lot of data and provide a 537 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 7: lot of insights of that nature, and we simply hadn't 538 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 7: found a way to productize that engine. So over the 539 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 7: course of the last couple of years, what we wanted 540 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 7: to do was find the recipe that allows us to 541 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 7: a utilize our data in a way that is more 542 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,719 Speaker 7: digestible for fans and still ensure that we are, you know, 543 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 7: protecting the integrity of the game, the integrity of the 544 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 7: data and all the things that the National Football League 545 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 7: obviously takes very hold it very very close to its 546 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 7: heart in how we protect the integrity of the game, 547 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 7: but wanted to make sure that we are able to 548 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 7: deliver those that information in a way that I think 549 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 7: fans will like. That's taken us a couple of years 550 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 7: to put it together, So it's not really a question 551 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 7: of why now. It's more of a question of how 552 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 7: long it took us to find a way to put 553 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 7: it together in a product that wheel like, And I 554 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 7: think that's what you have here. It's the first version 555 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 7: of the product. We obviously have heard a lot from 556 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 7: fans already in the week or so that it's been live, 557 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 7: and we will continue to improve upon that. I think 558 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 7: a lot of fans had a lot of great input 559 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 7: already and so we're really excited about where this could go. 560 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 2: Gil. 561 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 5: I have my fantasy football draft tonight, said is Michael 562 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 5: baram to take them out again. But here's my question 563 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 5: for you. The demand for these granular data sets from 564 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 5: the NFL. Do you believe much of that is coming 565 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 5: from sports gambling and the kind of uptake of fantasy 566 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 5: football and that sort of thing. 567 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 7: I think it's coming from from a lot of different directions, 568 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 7: and I think you mentioned some of them. I think 569 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 7: just the you know, what we found is that fans 570 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 7: just like to be informed, whether it is for your 571 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 7: fantasy league, whether it's for for the gambling audience, whatever 572 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 7: it might be. There's there's this appetite for me to 573 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 7: just know really cool things about the sport. 574 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 2: You know. 575 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 7: The first thing that drew me in was when I 576 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 7: looked at something called olne porsability right and understanding how 577 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 7: strong the O line that I'm looking at is, and 578 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 7: are they paired against the Tier one defense this year? 579 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 7: What do the edge rushers look like? Those kinds of 580 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 7: things were going to be very very interesting to me. 581 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 7: And I, you know, I've never gambled. I have one 582 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 7: fantasy league that I play. I am not the most 583 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 7: data savvy, but just things of that nature were really 584 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 7: really interesting to me just as a fan. So I 585 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 7: think it comes out from a variety of different fan segments, 586 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 7: regardless of whether you act on that information or not. 587 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 7: I don't think that was the necessarily the underlying intent, 588 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 7: but there's just some really cool things to note. 589 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 5: Well, Gil, now you're right in my wheelhouse because when 590 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 5: you go to most of these and I'm not gonna 591 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 5: you know, slam PFF or Pro Fantasy or any of these, 592 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 5: you know people who are you know, ranking players and 593 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 5: teams and you know, setting money lines and things of 594 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 5: that nature. But you talk, let's just take your offensive lines. 595 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 5: You know, the movement of offensive linemen throughout the course 596 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 5: of the season and the lack of a preseason gives 597 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 5: you no sense of what whether or not they've developed chemistry. 598 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 5: You know what the offensive system they're going to be 599 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 5: and looks like how they're going to perform within it. 600 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 5: And then all the movement amongst defensive players, right, I 601 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 5: mean when you look at a lot of rankings, they 602 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 5: really don't take a lot of those offseason changes into accounts. 603 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 5: So how does the NFL plan to address that. 604 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 7: Well, how we address it is give you, the fan, 605 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 7: the ability to do that. 606 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 4: Right. 607 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 7: A lot of people say I paired data with the 608 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 7: eye test. Right, you look at games and you're an 609 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 7: informed fan, and you can say, well, that looked right 610 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 7: to me. That didn't look quite right to me. What 611 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 7: we're after here is saying we're not going to necessarily 612 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 7: give you the rankings. You do the rankings, here's the information. 613 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 7: We've linked it to highlight video so that you can 614 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 7: actually have a look at the staff that you're observing, 615 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 7: which we think is one of the coolest things there are, 616 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 7: and use both to inform yourself. Right, the vast majority 617 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 7: of the time, fandom is about wanting to know more, 618 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 7: wanting to be a better fan, wanting to find ways 619 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 7: to explore the games, and maybe ways that you couldn't 620 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 7: have previously. This is about that. I could give you 621 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 7: the rankings all day long, but the rankings end up 622 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 7: being subjective some shape or form, and you are able 623 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 7: to inform yourself sometimes in a better way. That's what 624 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 7: we're after, right, is what rabbit hole do you want 625 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 7: to go down? And let us help you with that 626 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 7: rabbit hole. 627 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: Well, speaking of going down, rabbit holes to play around 628 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:29,959 Speaker 1: with this data. How much can users and NFL fans 629 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: rearrange or resort the data that is made available to them. 630 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 7: I think ultimately that is one of the visions of 631 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 7: the product, right And I don't know, Scarlett, if that's 632 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 7: fully available today. And I think the way that you're 633 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 7: describing it, I think what you just said is what 634 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 7: we heard from a lot of fans again over the 635 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 7: course of the last week, and certainly in the beta 636 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 7: phase that we had this. A lot of that flexibility 637 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 7: is in development and will be available in the product. 638 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 7: I don't know that all of it is there today. 639 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: Got it? Got it? Can you give us a sense 640 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: of what other feedback and input viewers have given you 641 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: so far? In these early days. 642 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 7: The feedback has mostly been around how do I sort, 643 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 7: how do I create certain lists for myself that I 644 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 7: want to track over the course of the season. How 645 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 7: do I export components of the data that make them 646 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 7: more analytical to the things that I want to do. 647 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 7: So it's actually people that are looking to go even 648 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 7: further down the analytical path than we had imagined, and 649 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 7: while that's not currently on our roadmap, I think those 650 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 7: are the kind of inputs that we will listen to 651 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 7: and try to make available as we think about. 652 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: So customizing data essentially. 653 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 7: The ability to do that, right. A lot of the 654 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 7: other feedback that we heard is, you know, the linkage 655 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 7: just to video and how to create certain playlists, and 656 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 7: I think the flexibility with that is going to be 657 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 7: important to build in. And that is on our roadmap 658 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 7: and what exactly that looks like. We're testing over the 659 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 7: course of the next few weeks and months, and hopefully 660 00:33:58,160 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 7: we'll have a you know, as we think about the 661 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 7: lawngevity of the product, have a release ahead of next 662 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 7: season as well, that is that is much more video heightened. 663 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 5: GIL in terms of you know, revenue generated. You know, 664 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 5: the NFL is probably one of the most successful businesses 665 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 5: on the planet. Right, Let's be clear, I'm curious to 666 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 5: hear your thoughts just in terms of the NFL's brought 667 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 5: a digital strategy where this fits into that, Like, is 668 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 5: this really going to move the needle for the NFL 669 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 5: from a top down perspective, from a revenue perspective. 670 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 7: I don't know that we ever look at it in 671 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 7: that regard, right. I think if if you think about 672 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,879 Speaker 7: the success of a sport. It's about how you tap 673 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,839 Speaker 7: into fandom and how you continue that building that fandom, right, 674 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 7: whether it's the current set of fans or the next 675 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,279 Speaker 7: generation of fans, and how they want to engage. And 676 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,800 Speaker 7: I think the NFL has always been really good about 677 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 7: thinking fandom first. And as you mentioned that, the revenue follows. 678 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 7: But I don't know that we looked at this and said, actually, 679 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 7: I can say with certainty we did not look at 680 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 7: this and say how much revenue is this going to generate? 681 00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:57,879 Speaker 4: Right? 682 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 7: We looked at it and said, what what co hord 683 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 7: of fans would like this? Do we think that it's 684 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 7: it's a big enough slice of the of the fan base. 685 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 7: Do we think that they're you know, this is going 686 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 7: to be a nice to have or something that people 687 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 7: are really going to dig into. And I think when 688 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 7: we looked across those parameters, we said that there's enough 689 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 7: fans that seem to like this stuff, and the ones 690 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 7: that like it really like it. 691 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 2: Right. 692 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 7: If in the first iteration, the first observance of data 693 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 7: that we have around that suggests that we were right 694 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 7: certainly on the second front, where fans are spending an 695 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 7: enordant amount of time on NFL pro in every sitting right, 696 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 7: it's order of magnitude different than a lot of other 697 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 7: engagement mechanisms that we're seeing. So that's what drove the decision. 698 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 7: The revenue component. If it follows, great, I'm sure it 699 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 7: will at some point, but that's not really the focus 700 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:47,240 Speaker 7: of what we have today. 701 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 4: Speaking of fans digging, do the fans dig games on 702 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:51,919 Speaker 4: Christmas Day? 703 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 7: I certainly it would certainly seem so, not exactly, It's 704 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 7: not the area that I dealing. But when I heard 705 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 7: the announcement, I was as excited as any fan. I mean, 706 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 7: I think, first and foremost, we have fans in our building, right, 707 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 7: so the people that work here for the most part 708 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 7: obviously are are all fans and diehard fans. And when 709 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 7: I heard the announcement, I was excited. 710 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 4: So I'd bring it up because we were talking about revenue, 711 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 4: and it's another way for the league to get exposure. 712 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 4: And what better way to do it than on Christmas 713 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 4: Day where a lot of family members are huddled around 714 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 4: the TV set and some are eating burnt dressing or 715 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,320 Speaker 4: whatever it is, and the National Football League is there. 716 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: This is our product, captive audience. 717 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, the NFL is King when it comes to showing 718 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 4: off the product, I certainly agreed. 719 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 7: I think I think the Christmas games are going to 720 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 7: be fun. I think Netflix is going to be fun. 721 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,399 Speaker 7: I think all around, this is going to be a good, 722 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 7: good experience. 723 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,799 Speaker 1: Gill, I'm curious whether you're going to form any partnerships 724 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,479 Speaker 1: with DraftKings or Fan Duel in terms of making other 725 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: kinds of pro data available to them, the advanced data 726 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 1: that some of the NFL plus fans are interested in, 727 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 1: but maybe in a different scale or at a different level. 728 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: Is this something that you're having conversations with them with about. 729 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 7: Constantly exploring what is a way that we can, you know, 730 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,759 Speaker 7: make lead partners have better offerings for their audiences and 731 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 7: their consumers. I will say specifically now for NFL Pro, 732 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 7: if you've played around with it a little bit, you 733 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,320 Speaker 7: saw that we integrated a few of the odds and 734 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 7: a few of the different places in the product, and 735 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 7: I think we pulled those those odds in from DraftKings. 736 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 7: Right now, what we're looking at is how do we 737 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 7: incorporate more data points and that's how we think about 738 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 7: the odds that are in the product, specifically to do 739 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,759 Speaker 7: something for that tier fan. There is no plan to 740 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 7: do that currently, but again as we continue to evaluate 741 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 7: what the progression of pro is, that might be something 742 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:53,839 Speaker 7: that's on the table at a future day. 743 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 4: Our thanks to Gil Moran for joining us. He is 744 00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,799 Speaker 4: the vice president and ahead of business strategy and operations 745 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,800 Speaker 4: for the National Football League. And thank you for joining 746 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,399 Speaker 4: us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. We are here 747 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 4: each and every week at the same time, plus online 748 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,880 Speaker 4: wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe now on Apple, Spotify, 749 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 4: and anywhere else you get your podcasts. From my colleagues 750 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 4: Scarlett fou and Damien Sassauer, I'm Michael Barr. Tune in 751 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 4: again next week for the latest on the stories moving 752 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,240 Speaker 4: big old money in the world of sports.