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Speaker 1: You're out of order. I'm out of order. This whole

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Speaker 1: country is out of order. It's one more thing.

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Speaker 2: I'm strong and getty, one more thing.

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Speaker 1: We're trying to remember what line or what movie rather

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Speaker 1: than that screed was from.

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Speaker 2: And it's an ancient al Pacino movie reference, back when

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Speaker 2: he somewhat acted as he was transitioning into his yells

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Speaker 2: all the time phase.

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Speaker 1: Right, What was that the Whoah movie?

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Speaker 2: No, Scent of a Woman. The Scent of a Woman

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Speaker 2: is the Hua movie? Who It doesn't matter, No, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't before we get to that. So I've been thinking

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Speaker 2: about taking my kids to see the Eagles of the

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Speaker 2: Sphere in Vegas. Because I've been to the Sphere to

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Speaker 2: see the video show, which is amazing. I'd like to

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Speaker 2: see a concert there. At least one of my kids

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Speaker 2: really likes the Eagles, so I'd like to go, but

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Speaker 2: I need to see it.

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Speaker 1: As you know, I insist on calling them some Eagles.

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Speaker 2: Okay, really, if Don Henley's there and a cover band

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Speaker 2: that sounds like the rest of them, I'm happy. But

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Speaker 2: I need to see a little more effort out of

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Speaker 2: my kids' school wise before I do an expensive, lavish

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Speaker 2: fun trip like this, I think, but I might go

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Speaker 2: see this not at the sphere, but doing residency where

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Speaker 2: you just camp at a at a casino and you

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Speaker 2: play there every single night. The Crew Motley Crue, and

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking, single guy my age, that's a perfect place

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Speaker 2: to meet women. Isn't it a Motley Crue concert venue.

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Speaker 2: It's gonna be everybody like roughly my age.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, I see your point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it might be a good place to go shoot

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Speaker 2: your shot.

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Speaker 1: Jack. I'm appalled for some reason, but I'm not sure why.

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Speaker 1: I just I always had contempt for the uh that

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Speaker 1: sort of hair band rock, you know. I've revisited some

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Speaker 1: of the Crew stuff, and some of it's good hard rock.

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Speaker 1: Just a whole image thing put me off because I

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Speaker 1: was more of the thinking man, it's hard rock guy.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if this is true or not, but

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Speaker 2: it's possible that they felt the same way. But we're told, look,

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Speaker 2: in this current moment, you need to have giant hair

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Speaker 2: and dress like this.

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Speaker 1: It's the equivalent of the picture that they tried to

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Speaker 1: make us take for our entire career, standing back to back,

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Speaker 1: smiling like morons, and we always refused to do the cliche.

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Speaker 1: DJ Team pic. It was just too revolting.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I'll spray a little Pulo after shave on my

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Speaker 2: neck and go check out a Crew concert in Vegas.

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Speaker 1: You do that, wear a bandana around your neck? Shot

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Speaker 1: shot God, oh boy, you know it's Katie. It's one

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Speaker 1: of the great pleasures of my life. Amusing and or

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Speaker 1: appalling you doing this.

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Speaker 3: Glad you guys just deflated me.

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Speaker 1: I love you. So a couple of interesting things. I

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Speaker 1: read this piece by who wrote this? Oh, Charles Layman.

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Speaker 1: Do you know Charles Faine Layman. He writes right now

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Speaker 1: for the Free Beacon, which is doing some great journalism.

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Speaker 1: If you're not hip to the Washington Free Beacon, that

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Speaker 1: is one of the foremost conservative publications. Sometimes over the

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Speaker 1: line a little bit, but man, they got some great

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Speaker 1: thinkers there anyway.

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Speaker 2: So his piece is.

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Speaker 1: About America's disorder problem, and he starts off with a

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Speaker 1: discussion of whether crime is on the rise or not,

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Speaker 1: and actually, and it surprises me, he missed the fact

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Speaker 1: that the FBI statistics are are completely wildly inaccurate. They

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Speaker 1: leave out some major cities, and they their their methodology

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Speaker 1: is terrible. And then the very Justice Department, for which

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Speaker 1: the FBI works does another giant survey or it's one

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Speaker 1: of your government branches on crime victims and asks people

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Speaker 1: have you been a victim of crime this year? And

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Speaker 1: the numbers there's a wild mismatch because of the number

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Speaker 1: of people who don't bother calling the cops though they

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Speaker 1: have been victimized by crime, indeed often violent crime. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: but we'll skip over that. His not going into that,

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Speaker 1: but what I call the cops of.

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Speaker 2: My house got broken into if my car and I

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Speaker 2: don't know that, I would, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, I probably would. It depends. Are you in a

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Speaker 1: blue city, blue county, blue state or red.

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Speaker 2: I definitely wouldn't if my car got broken into.

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Speaker 3: Not even a question I've done, especially in California, complete.

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Speaker 2: Waste of time house maybe, But it depends.

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Speaker 1: And there are certainly some neighborhoods, some of the rougher

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Speaker 1: neighborhoods where the most crime is that if somebody knocks

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Speaker 1: you down and takes your phone, you would just go

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Speaker 1: buy another phone, Yeah, which is unfortunate. But anyway, getting

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Speaker 1: back to Layman's point, he's taking about the perception that

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Speaker 1: crime is on the rise, whether it is still rising

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Speaker 1: or as Plateau or is even going down a little bit.

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Speaker 1: And he talks about and he starts in Chattanooga, Tennessee,

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Speaker 1: he says, and he talks about their crime is kind

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Speaker 1: of leveled off. But I argue they've done so at

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Speaker 1: the expense of controlling disorder in the city, public homelessness, trash,

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Speaker 1: drug related violations, etc. This is what has prompted persistent

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Speaker 1: unease even as crime has come down.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, I was just thinking that the whole perception thing

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Speaker 2: is up. I have a perception of crime is up,

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Speaker 2: but it's mostly because I see scary looking people laying

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Speaker 2: on the sidewalk and you know, garbage carts tipped over

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Speaker 2: places and just stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And then the other quibble I have with them

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Speaker 1: is that not only is the reporting of crime being down,

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Speaker 1: the arresting of reported criminals is down. The prosecution of

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Speaker 1: arrested criminals down because of the breakdown of our police

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Speaker 1: and our justice system. So again, I do not trust

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Speaker 1: crime statistics unless they are the victim's survey.

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Speaker 2: And you know who has accurate statistics is the walmart

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Speaker 2: that I went to recently and needed some idbprofue because

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Speaker 2: I had a headache and it was locked up and

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Speaker 2: it didn't used to be, never was before, but it

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Speaker 2: is now just happening. Like the last couple of weeks

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Speaker 2: they locked up everything in the pharmacy area at the Walmart.

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Speaker 2: They didn't do that for fun, because that would be

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Speaker 2: expensive and a pain in the ass. They did it

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Speaker 2: because they had to, right.

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Speaker 1: And he does talk about police deprioritizing order enforcement, and

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Speaker 1: now I'm done quibbling to his writing. I increasingly think

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Speaker 1: that this is a more general phenomenon. Disorder is not

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Speaker 1: measured like crime. There's no system for aggregating measures of

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Speaker 1: disorder across cities, but if you look for signs, they

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Speaker 1: are there. Retail theft, though hard to measure, has grown

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Speaker 1: bad enough that major retailers now lock up their wares

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Speaker 1: in many cities. To jackpoint, the unsheltered homeless population has

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Speaker 1: risen sharply. People seem to be controlling their dogs less.

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Speaker 1: Road deaths have risen, even a vehicle miles driven declined,

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Speaker 1: suggesting people are driving more irresponsibly.

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Speaker 2: That's that's everybody's perception.

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Speaker 1: Public drug use in cities from San Francisco to Philadelphia

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Speaker 1: has gotten bad enough to prompt crackdowns. These are fuzzy signals.

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Speaker 1: But they jibe with my personal experience. In the half

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Speaker 1: dozen cities I've visited in the past year, visible disorder

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Speaker 1: has been a common feature.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday and Davis, I saw a guy's full ass that

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Speaker 2: would fit into this too, where it just feels like,

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Speaker 2: just feels like things are worse because this guy was

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Speaker 2: pushing his cart down the kind of limp and down

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Speaker 2: the street and his pants sound solow. I was looking

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Speaker 2: at his entire Harry Valentine staring straight at me.

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Speaker 1: Wasted junkies showing bare ass in the public. That's right,

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Speaker 1: that's disorder. Most conspicuous in my experience is the way

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Speaker 1: that retailers have responded. It's not just CVS. Coffee shops

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Speaker 1: seem to have gotten more hostile and less welcoming. This is,

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Speaker 1: I suspect because they are dealing with people who steal,

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Speaker 1: cause a ruckus or shout up in the bathroom, disorderly

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Speaker 1: behaviors that they have to deter before they cost them customers.

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Speaker 2: You know, here's another example, or maybe you're going to

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Speaker 2: get to this one, but this one's all these little

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Speaker 2: impressions that just give you a little bit of a

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Speaker 2: h That's right. Society sucks. Anytime I'm any place and

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Speaker 2: I want to go to the bathroom, there's a code.

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Speaker 2: Need to give you the code because it's locked. It's

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Speaker 2: just another Oh that's right, society sucks now. Used to

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Speaker 2: be able to come here and you eat and you

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Speaker 2: just go to the bathroom, but now you have to

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Speaker 2: get a code because so many criminals or whatever the

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Speaker 2: hell is going on.

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Speaker 4: Or it's like when San Francisco got all warm and

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Speaker 4: fuzzy and just at the Starbucks and decided, oh, anybody

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Speaker 4: can use our bathrooms, the homeless people need it. That

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Speaker 4: lasted for like what two months before they ended up

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Speaker 4: just closing all the bathrooms because they.

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Speaker 2: Got so trashed. Should so they either have a code

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Speaker 2: or there's no bathroom at all, Right.

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Speaker 1: So what is disorder anyway? Part of the problem with

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Speaker 1: talking about disorder is that it's hard to define. In

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Speaker 1: disorder and crime, a Northwestern political science researcher Wesley Scogan

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Speaker 1: argues that disorder is in part distinguished from crime by

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Speaker 1: the untidiness of its definition and its dependence on often

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Speaker 1: fuzzy normative values. So you define it by the fact

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Speaker 1: that it's hard to define. Assault and battery is easy

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Speaker 1: to define anyway. Unlike criminology, which avoids many complex conceptual

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Speaker 1: issues simply by pointing to the statute books to classify behavior,

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Speaker 1: the study of disorder necessarily examines conflicts over uncodified sets

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Speaker 1: of norms. The concept joins together such distinct activities as building, abandonment,

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Speaker 1: and public drinking. Indeed, the challenge of defining disorder is

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Speaker 1: part of what has made it a controversial topic, with

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Speaker 1: critics contending that disorder is just another word that the

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Speaker 1: powerful use for whatever it is. The non white, poor

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Speaker 1: and otherwise marginalized do, yes, that's you're a racist to

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Speaker 1: be against disorder.

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Speaker 2: That's really good stuff. So all that pushback about here

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Speaker 2: statistics showing crime is going down, Well, if I you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm at a little restaurant and all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: they don't have a bathroom anymore, and I want to

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Speaker 2: buy myabiprofen and it's locked up, and just lots of

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Speaker 2: little things like that. Yeah, you have the sense that

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Speaker 2: there's more disorder.

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Speaker 1: A couple more chunks from this that I thought we're

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Speaker 1: so thought provoking, and you know, just doesn't aside to

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Speaker 1: everybody else on the crew. I love the fact that

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Speaker 1: we can stretch out and go into these things in

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Speaker 1: a little more depth during the One More Thing podcast,

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Speaker 1: since the you know, the the radio show which becomes

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Speaker 1: armstrong and getting on demand is governed by the clock

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Speaker 1: in a way that perus podcast is not. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: know there are days, I think anyway, when we think

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Speaker 1: of disorder, we might think of, for example, a man

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Speaker 1: blasting loud music from his phone in a subway or

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Speaker 1: in an airplane terminal, which.

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Speaker 2: If he's just sitting there. How about if he's just

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Speaker 2: sitting there, working man in the subway, Well.

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Speaker 1: That's definitely disorderly. Yes. Teenagers spray painting graffiti on a

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Speaker 1: public park, a large homeless encampment taking over a city block,

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Speaker 1: a man throwing his trash on the ground and walking away.

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Speaker 1: A group of women selling sex on a street car.

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Speaker 1: These are all disorderly behaviors, as distinguished from the physical

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Speaker 1: disorder of an abandoned lot. One feature that seems to

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Speaker 1: join them is the way in which they affect public

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Speaker 1: as opposed to private space. The guy playing loud music

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Speaker 1: in pinges on everyone else, the encampment in the litter

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Speaker 1: both constrain the use of the street corner. These behaviors

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Speaker 1: in other words, claim for the disorderly individual space which

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Speaker 1: is nominally for everyone and therefore which is meant to

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Speaker 1: be shared by everyone. From this little exercise, he writes,

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Speaker 1: I want to take a first stab at a definition

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Speaker 1: disorder is domination of public space for private purposes. What

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Speaker 1: do you think of that?

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Speaker 2: Pretty good?

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Speaker 1: Yep, if I want to go to that very dramatic.

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Speaker 2: But when my kids were younger, especially, you want to

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Speaker 2: go to the park and there's some rando guy laying

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Speaker 2: in the grass with his pit bull running around. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden, I'm not going to that park anymore.

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Speaker 2: He has claim that for his private space living, working.

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Speaker 1: Oh and it's sort of pointing out for Blue staters

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Speaker 1: in Red States this is not a problem living, working,

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Speaker 1: or commuting in such spaces, as most city dwellers must

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Speaker 1: entail some degree of cooperation so that everyone can get

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Speaker 1: some part of the thing which no user has a

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Speaker 1: specific legal right to public space that has to be shared.

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Speaker 1: Private purposes are those things which, by contrast, we do

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Speaker 1: only for ourselves, or which others might want to be

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Speaker 1: excluded from our doing. Listening to music, sleeping, producing trash,

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Speaker 1: having sex, etc. And then he gets into the fact

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Speaker 1: that disorder is the natural state.

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Speaker 3: Of the world.

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Speaker 2: Ah, good point.

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Speaker 1: Which is true politically, Physicsly, it feels the opposite because

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Speaker 1: you've been around order your whole life or I have.

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Speaker 2: Right, it feels like that's the natural state and we're

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Speaker 2: letting something creep in. No disorder, All that gross stuff

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Speaker 2: is the natural state until you enforce the other stuff

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Speaker 2: on it.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeaholtly, what is the thing? The natural state of

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Speaker 1: the universe's entropy or the trend is toward in other words,

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Speaker 1: chaos disorder. And then he points out and I'll just

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Speaker 1: touch on a couple more aspects of this, but he says,

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Speaker 1: an odd feature of many parts of American society is

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Speaker 1: how little litter there is. And if you've ever spent

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Speaker 1: any time in Mexico, you know this to be true. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can go to some cities and see a lot

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Speaker 1: of it, but there's far less even there than there

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Speaker 1: ought to be relative to how much litter. Rational actors

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Speaker 1: ought by default to produce, So littering. Putting trash somewhere

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Speaker 1: other than a designated receptacle unburdens the litter at by

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Speaker 1: default essentially no cost. It's easy and if done correctly fun.

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Speaker 1: If you don't believe me, try chucking cans off an overpath.

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Speaker 1: But that we don't because we have created a certain

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Speaker 1: amount of order in our society. And it's to all

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Speaker 1: of our wonderful, wonderful benefits. And the fact that we

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Speaker 1: don't have coffiness music in every you know, gate at

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Speaker 1: the airport, and and you know, people are not masturbating

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Speaker 1: on every public conveyance or park bench and the rest

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Speaker 1: of it. Thank god. I don't think there's not graffiti everywhere.

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Speaker 2: It's a weird thing to do.

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Speaker 3: Masturbate on a subway, Yeah, about a park bench.

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Speaker 1: The fresh air, you know, the smell of the trees,

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Speaker 1: the squirrels, people walking by.

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Speaker 2: I feel like if I were alone on a subway

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Speaker 2: with no danger of anybody even seeing me, I couldn't.

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Speaker 5: I just wouldn't. It just doesn't seem nothing with that aude.

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Speaker 5: It just doesn't seem like a sexy atmosphere. I don't

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Speaker 5: want my bare bottom on that gross seat. There's just

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Speaker 5: a lot of reasons why I wouldn't.

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Speaker 2: I mean history, Yeah, So then you combine the fact

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Speaker 2: that there are people watching, and I definitely just can't.

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Speaker 3: You just gotta I get so high you don't realize

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Speaker 3: what you're doing.

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Speaker 2: Is that it?

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Speaker 1: Hello, So finally I want to get to this and

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Speaker 1: this is it's a very very long think piece, and

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Speaker 1: I wish we had time for all of it.

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Speaker 2: But now that stadium put my legs up on the

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Speaker 2: seat in front of me. Oh come on, yeah, wow unanimous.

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Speaker 2: I wish we had stones here, we'd stone you. But anyway,

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Speaker 2: why then is there not more disorder?

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Speaker 1: And the answer is what criminologists and sociologists call social control,

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Speaker 1: the regulation of individual behavior by social institutions through informal

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Speaker 1: and formal means, shared values, shared values, and a responsibility

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Speaker 1: to your community, which your community will demand of you.

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Speaker 1: And that is what has crumbled, and part of it

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Speaker 1: is and I just read another philosophical piece on this

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Speaker 1: the whole diversity is our greatest strength. Bullshit that we

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Speaker 1: heard for years and years, and you dared not raise

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Speaker 1: your voice against we did for a long time. They

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Speaker 1: tried to shut us down several times. But and I'm

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Speaker 1: not anti diversity in a new way. It can make

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Speaker 1: things really interesting and can be a strength. But shared

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Speaker 1: values are a greatest strength by like a million miles,

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Speaker 1: and diversity challenges and often damages shared values. That's why

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Speaker 1: we have a disorder epidemic. We lack shared values and

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Speaker 1: a cohesive community that enforces them through formal and informal means.

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Speaker 1: Why did I not chuck garbage on the street I

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Speaker 1: grew up in in suburban Chicago land because I would

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Speaker 1: have been harshly, you know, remonstrated to use the fancy term.

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Speaker 1: I would have been chewed out, dragged by my ear

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Speaker 1: back home, or my dad would have had at me.

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Speaker 1: Is that true in your neighborhood? Now, friends, I ask you,

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Speaker 1: and why not?

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Speaker 6: Okay, here's my idea. Jack says he can't find a bathroom.

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Speaker 6: What about a bathroom truck instead of an ice cream truck.

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Speaker 6: It's a truck with the you know, a little song plane.

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Speaker 6: People wave it down, down, you flag it down. People

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Speaker 6: go in the back, there's a you know stall, they

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Speaker 6: do their thing, and yeah, we know.

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Speaker 1: What a toilet is.

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Speaker 2: And then if you have to urinate it, yeah we

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Speaker 2: get that. I have been asking for more paid toilets

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Speaker 2: for years. That's what I've found in a number of places.

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Speaker 2: Mexico City had them, they have them, had them in Russia.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: I love the idea. That it keeps out a certain segment.

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Speaker 2: Who and it's not much money, but it keeps out

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Speaker 2: the worst segment and uh, and it keeps them clean

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Speaker 2: because they can afford to clean him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Although the one I went to one Moscow, it was

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Speaker 2: a paid toilet and it was very clean in there,

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Speaker 2: but it was just a hole in the ground. I

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Speaker 2: mean you just there was just a hole in the

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Speaker 2: cement squatting or a hole, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was cloe. So, Michael, if you need

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Speaker 1: like financing for this idea, because I'm picturing like sections

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Speaker 1: of various cities that have the food trucks, where's the

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Speaker 1: bathroom truck? Where there is food and drink, there is

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Speaker 1: need for a bathroom. I'm not a doctor, but I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty confident about this. Your bathroom trucks are a brilliant idea.

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Speaker 1: I think it's the volume. You couldn't get enough volume

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Speaker 1: to turn a profit. Yeah, eat more, no, no, no, no.

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Speaker 1: The number of toilets per vehicle. That's disgusting. That's worse

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Speaker 1: than what I said.

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Speaker 6: You took pretty bad.

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Speaker 4: Now you took the cake jack with the whole feet

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Speaker 4: up at the baseball stadium.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you mean yeah, I think we kind of did. Yeah, Michael, please.

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Speaker 6: All right, Well I guess that's it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah,